Pro audio = hifi. Hifi means high fidelity, which literally means accuracy in sound reproduction. What you are talking about is MY fidelity which is in the total opposite direction. You want to go the MY fidelity way by colouring the sound to suit your liking? By all means, just stop claiming it is high fidelity. Add all the distortion and noise you want, pull up 10khz by 5db and pull down 3-5khz all you want, use a pre amp/dac to add soundstage depth all you want, no harm in that, nothing at all. Its just not hifi. Pro audio is as hifi as it can get. You are talking as though using an EQ is a bad thing, its definitely way more effective than changing to a dac that costs 30 grand. Your speakers have to be badly designed to not take well to eq caused by screwed up directivity. The BS you are spouting can only come from a 'high end' seller.
The pros don't spend on B.S. Buying a pair of ATC40 SCM passives was one of the best moves I made. They image just fine, not random phase giving false enhancement to certain recordings and ruining others.
I’m in pro audio and the pros definitely buy into the BS marketing. Mainly nobody is going to book studio time if you have behringer, warm audio and dbx. 25k mics and 10k EQs is total BS but it sells for a reason.
@@automationtraveler That sounds promising. Never said it was cheap, just not B.S, the better studios cost mega bucks from what I've seen with ground isolation transformers and in wall speakers etc at the higher levels.
I'd go Bryston over Boulder. I actually can't stand Boulder... what gave you the idea I like it ? Bryston will never be more than a 20Year warranty Pro amp to me.
@OCDHIFiGuy I understand you can't stand Boulder. It was a statement that I would take Bryston over Boulder. Actually, I would take it over much of the overpriced hype and Tom Foolery out there. If you feel Bryston is Pro Audio, cool. I don't.
@AudioheavenDenmark I had Bryston. They are not bright like everyone says. A dealer in my city carries them as well. Nice stuff, and it sounds great. I think they are an absolute bargain.
Actually, I do use eq, a 1/3 octave eq (31 band ART) in my high fi rig. I have always had for 45 years of listening. And I really don't give a damn what audiophiles think of it. I love to have total control of my sound, and the eq is one tool in the tool box to get what I want.
Agreed. EQ is absolutely essential for headphones and many speakers too. Pro monitors generally extend out more into the treble and bass than similarly sized mid-rangey HiFi speakers. In Pro audio the designers expect end users to use EQ (in particular for bass/treble). In HiFi they expect you to buy a silly cable.
@davidcarr2216 It's funny you said that about the midrange in HiFi speakers. That is exactly what I use the eq for in my HiFi speakers, almost always a slight decrease in the middle except for certain recordings.
Hey Mike, I also have ATC active speakers for several years now and find that they do image well. Pro audio speakers can be very detailed in the midrange, that could be why you get that feeling they are upfront and flatten the soundstage. I think it comes down to eq and the Fletcher Munson HiFi curve which creates a greater illusion of depth in the recording. Nothing wrong with that it's all down to personal taste, No loudspeaker is perfect but there may be a perfect loudspeaker for everybody. Thanks again 👍
And your right . ATC speakers are some of the best and accurate at imagining. They tell no lies . I found it amusing how this ‘you tube ‘fellow says audio engineers or mixers don’t consider imagining and dimensionality.
Fair enough. I was concerned that you thought mixing audio wasn’t about staging or 3d placement . I agree that some music is mixed for earbuds and Bluetooth speakers . I’d rather not concern myself with teen age girl sex music or dance music , as it is clearly not mixed with quality in mind .
You seem to be in the same ballpark as am I. I'm doing music production and a musician laying down the instruments. I want to hear all the details of what I'm doing. I also enjoy listening for this details in other recording. What do you suggest for listening in my case? I use and RME 2/4 DAC / AMP, Focal Solo 6 monitors for the main tracking, mixing, and listening, for phones I use LCD-5, Clear MG pros, Arya stealths, dt1990,1700. For mobile DAC/AMP is use an Apogee groove. I want to upgrade the Groove to MOJO 2, Swap or buy MM-500 and Araya organics. Then upgrade my desk DAC/AMP. Most Hi Fi people seem to think there are much better pieces than the RME ADI even my updated version 2/4. What would be the best DAC/AMP to drive the headphones I have at around $3000.00? Maybe that is all just for hi fi and I will miss al the information I need from the RME 2/4 and Groove?
I want to be pulled in from " 30 days in the hole" to "a million miles away" . Mikey I was just watching your cable burner video, i found a 2nd hand unit. Cant wait to try it out.
I will never go 100% pro audio or 100% hi-fi , the best of both worlds is the way to go. My favourite cup of tea is a quick , punchy , clean and clear sound.
I have a mini bi-amped concert system in my living room and have great spatial imaging. Granted I could probably blow my windows out if turned it all the way up. I really enjoy it at 1-10% of potential. I have 700 watts just for my dual 15 subwoofer but barely tickle the QSC amp driving it.
@ But what a full sound. I got to work with a similar system running sound for a local Church for seven years. Had to run 110 db+ just to overcome our drummer.
I'm doing a music production and a musician laying down the instruments. I want to hear all the details of what I'm doing. I also enjoy listening for this details in other recording. What do you suggest for listening in my case? I use and RME 2/4 DAC / AMP, Focal Solo 6 monitors for the main tracking, mixing, and listening, for phones I use LCD-5, Clear MG pros, Arya stealths, dt1990,1700. For mobile DAC/AMP is use an Apogee groove. I want to upgrade the Groove to MOJO 2, Swap or buy MM-500 and Araya organics. Then upgrade my desk DAC/AMP. Most Hi Fi people seem to think there are much better pieces than the RME ADI even my updated version 2/4. What would be the best DAC/AMP to drive the headphones I have at around $3000.00? Maybe that is all just for hi fi and I will miss al the information I need from the RME 2/4 and Groove?
My consultation is over the phone only. Second of all I'm not too familiar with headphones or headphone amps as I don't use either.. in your profession I recommend DANGEROUS MUSIC. Made in USA and kick butt sound..
Totally agree Mikey, Sometime. Times we want our system to be both types of sound, nevermind, we'll will keep pissing about I guess, keeps us out of trouble.. Regards, Antony, Warrington Cheshire. England.
Hi Antony. The best HiFi systems are both accurate and engaging. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.. maybe I should say you can have your bangers and jam tarts in the same meal !
Mikey, Having worked in the Face Live Pre and Post Fade Production with Burnout from a Hard Days Night, all I want is Seductive Warm kicked back Escapism! I truly enjoy HiEnd HiFi Holographic Sound Stage with Depth, Width, and Height and the Ambience of the Realism we all are trying to Recreate! ✌and ❤ to you my Soul Brother for Expressing what I have Lived!
One of big problems of Hi-Fi is that it is still using a lot of outdated technologies and bad design patterns. For instance, use non-differential IO (RCAs), passive amping, which do require thick copper cables and actual bolts and nuts to connect, instead of active amping, single amp and big passive filtering on the output, instead of individual amps for each speaker type and tiny input filtering, use of linear amping instead of more efficient D-class. And I think HiFi are using -10dB, not +4, but not sure. With pro audio you just get whatever mic cable and whatever signal cable and that's just works like 99% of the time and produces the same and predictable result.
I disagree with the imaging comment. Of course they want it to image, since they are creating the soundscape. The only differences should be the functionality. That is for speakers to sit on top of a console or for an amp to fit in a rack and of course as you said to last forever. Still dig your show man. No offense. Peace
Yes, they want a solid center image. But that's not how I listen. I listen for layering and tonal density for instance. I've never heard pro guys use those terms. And in this vid, I laugh about what we as Audiophiles are after in terms of real world sound..
As someone who produces and mixes music, I am ALL about imaging. Imaging from my monitors is crucial because I am, like the commenter stated, trying to actually create the soundscape that the listener will hear (where do people think the spatial cues come from? the listener isn't the first to experience the holographic imaging). Whatever is reproduced in hifi is actually PRODUCED in the pro realm. In most commercial studios, the monitors are soffit-mounted and the rooms are acoustically treated (they're not "dead") to allow the monitors to behave as a point source. Many mastering studios have rooms that will literally blow away listening rooms with hyper-priced hifi gear. As much as I am involved in both pro audio and hifi, we're both after the same thing in many ways, it's just that many of us, like you [Mike] said, are not listening for our leisure because it's our job. But my splash cymbal better be panned right of center and I want to hear it right of center. P.S. As an electrical engineer, fancy power cables are humorous. What is overpriced, oxygen-free copper in bulky insulation and nylon braiding going to do that a power conditioner, or at that, the output bulk capacitors in the power supply should be doing?
@@ssjlkrillin With regards to the comments in your P.S., I can give you some insights. What is it about more expensive materials used in high end cables and power accessories that's making a difference? I can't say. With audio, sometimes we know why something makes a difference, and sometimes we don't. However, one thing I noticed about skeptics, especially on the pro audio side of the issue, is if we can't offer an explanation and back it up with some type of measurements, whatever it is we're talking about is disregarded. I don't agree with that line of thinking, but I understand it. Wanting some type of proof is reasonable. But this is where the issue goes off the rails. If you guys (When I say you guys, I don't mean you specifically. I mean in general. People on your side of the argument.), can't get exactly the proof you want, your opinions tend to be conclusive. So, while we can't always explain why something sounds like it does, that doesn't mean the issue is settled. I would suggest you focus on things we can do. If you want to take the first step into understanding issues like this, ignore all the subjective factors like price, value, good sound, bad sound, etc.. Focus only on the objective. For example, can copper cables sound different than silver cables? Yes or no. That's it. Everything beyond that is subjective. Is the price too high? You'll get a different answer from every person you ask. But if you just want to get an answer showing if the differences are real, we can do that rather easily. Its not difficult to set up a blind listening test that, if done properly, can yield scientifically valid results. If you can isolate all other variables and are left with just the 2 pairs of cables, or whatever it is you're testing, the test results will be fact. The "why" can be answered at a later date, but for now, you will know there are real differences. And that's a lot more than you knew before. I'm now going to tell you something you may find offensive, but its not my intention. I'm just stating facts. With all the back and forth arguing that's been going on for the last 3-4 decades, no one on your side of the argument has ever done a single test that would be considered even remotely scientific on any of the high end products you find skeptical. Not a single test. If you don't believe me, just look into it. The test's don't exist. And this is where you need to start. One last thing I know you'll bring up, is why can't I reference some tests? And the simple answer is, I've tried. Over the years I've done some extensive blind testing on high end audio equipment that produced quality results. No matter how well done my tests were, under no circumstances would the skeptics accept, or even consider, the results. If want answers, your side needs to do the testing.
Hey Mike. Love your videos. Now that you are talking about pro audio. What are your opinion on ATC loudspeakers? I'm. Having a pair of their scm300 actives at home. And love the sound I'm getting from them. Best regards Nicklas from Denmark 😎
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks a lot for the answer Mike. I have seen Augspurger, but as I'm in Denmark we normally only have the absurdly overpriced Danish brands in the stores unfortunately. So difficult to give them a listen. Looking forward to your next videos.
Yo Mikey!!! I think I want true accuracy. I better get my ears on some of these so I make the right choice. Prolly hi fi for this guy. I also don't want to have to buy a new dac if I want to change the sound. I dunno.
Pro Audio Guys: Using actual science, the laws of physics, and acoustics, they make decisions based on measurable, verifiable facts. Hi-Fi Guys: Wrapping themselves in good old-fashioned snobbery, they use wine-tasting language to describe technical phenomena that already have established professional jargon rooted in physical and technical principles. But hey, dropping $10,000 on a cassette deck that sounds like my ass seems like a great idea if it lets me continue my brainless consumerism and call it a hobby.
Back to guns........ I found this for ya dog- Atlanta Paintball. Its a MUST DO at least once in your life, call them, make a date for you and your brother to play. It will be one of the most fun things youve ever done and memories to last a life tiime!
promaudio deals with the gritty concept of makeing the mix sound as it should fit, and then mastering entails not accentuating the freqs in the mix too much, because it can quickly reshspe the soundstage and insteumental balance in the mix, mastering needs to keep the soundstage where the mix sits balanced, which sometimes means the track comes out not as loud in certain rythmic parts of the track, pro audio can pick these issues up while glueing the mix into a track - its the optics that should keep the track balanced tonaly etc as well as how soundstage as a data of the mix is affected. most streaming services basically remix the track that actually cuts the sound height dynamic range etc to fit earphones ets since the soundsstage differs in size compared to in room etc. as well the tracks are then pushed into clipping, which gives a sense of an energetic track through ear,plug, headph9nes small desktop speakers. there is no high dynamic range that hifi audio gear with its many passive voicing teqniques and raw amplifier power to energize the room holograpphically etc. not that passive voicing corrupts the original teack, it should be said that in fact- it deliniates it more finely, with a film type feel, not video.
yes, using the gear to rework the sound of a track is possible, * does it make sense? if done correctly (speaker manufacturer- klipshe etcs.) it could create new sound cues which where laid back and less resolute in one paor of speakers and another the sound has more discernment at and threshold improvments without fatigue etc.
I guess I somewhat disagree. I have been around live music all life being a musician and enjoying live events. Hifi's goal is to attempt to create the live event and can be presented to the listener in a variety of ways: 1)home two channel; 2)car; 3)heaphones. In all these case the sound need only project a short distance. Pro audio as you state is for production of the music and for playing the music at at venue. Pro audio production designs their systems to be able to tune the sound to their target. Do they want good sound in the car? At home via a home theater system? Or for heaphones? You made it sound like sound engineers make no attempt to create a mix that sounds life like on a good stereo system. As far as the pro audio for sound at live events the goal is dispersion over a large area which means they need to be loud. There are some pro audio speakers that sound closer to live than hifi on certain forms of music. As good as my hifi equipment is (MG20.7 and MBL101) they dont remotely fool me into thinking it is live. There are some recordings that the pro audio duplicate identical to the live event.
I agree and stated that HiFi recreates a "fantasy" sound.. laid back and places instruments in the Soundstage. If we wanted to create "live" we would use a P.A. setup, wouldn't we ?
yes the HIFI world is ridiculous. Audiophiliacs are tuning freaks, equal to trying to create a perfect subjective filter for your camera, to tint and fog and blur and colorize music, paint a certain atmosphere. Of course then every detail matters, zinc or copper or platinum, forward or backwards etc... yes completely ridiculous. What you call music producers pushes the specie into some sort of industrial process, no, they are sound artists working with their emotions to create music, not a technical product per se. I see audiophilacery as a sort of subjective and dilettante painting exercise. Embarrassing really.
Embarrassing only if one is fully under the ether and deems it SO important. It's simply music listening, and if one is aware of Audio Fallacy, then to proceed is by choice in a fun, light-hearted spirit..
LOL. Both need to reproduce the signal 1:1 or a best effort at that. There's no difference apart from that some equipment needs to be installed in a rack and needs active cooling. Looking at the signal there is zero difference.
Put the mind to wok or the soul to rest. Good vid would be how similarly this is done in hifi also between natural reproduction and enhanced. Bigger and bigger bucks for the ever widening enhanced sound, confusing consumers.
LOL. then go buy your system at Guitar Center... it's on sale. ;-) I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I've spent time in million dollar Grammy winning studios and I prefer my system
Give me pro audio gear all day every day. With pro gear you get true, accurate sound not some bullshit which you imagine or which some HiFi bullshit merchant put in your head . The HiFi business is totally fake with terrible products and is nothing more than an upgrade merry go round. Save your BS Mikey.
Oh, I've known all about HiFi and the HiFi industry sinse about 1975. If you knew anything about it , you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole either..@@andru2625
Yes, no clue.. Guitar Center has a sale for you this weekend. You go with your Chinese ass Behringer and Mackie.. bottom line is if that actually fulfills you, be grateful. You have inexpensive taste. It's a blessing. Unfortunately I have the curse of only wanting luxury level durable goods.
Hi Mikey
One of my favorite videos from you great educational content
Take Care
Bill
What's funny about hifi is we have actually zero references on how the album should sound like. We only imagine it 😂
True..
Pro audio = hifi. Hifi means high fidelity, which literally means accuracy in sound reproduction. What you are talking about is MY fidelity which is in the total opposite direction. You want to go the MY fidelity way by colouring the sound to suit your liking? By all means, just stop claiming it is high fidelity. Add all the distortion and noise you want, pull up 10khz by 5db and pull down 3-5khz all you want, use a pre amp/dac to add soundstage depth all you want, no harm in that, nothing at all. Its just not hifi. Pro audio is as hifi as it can get.
You are talking as though using an EQ is a bad thing, its definitely way more effective than changing to a dac that costs 30 grand. Your speakers have to be badly designed to not take well to eq caused by screwed up directivity. The BS you are spouting can only come from a 'high end' seller.
Then piss off, "pro" audio Donkey. You're just too smart for all of us, aren't you ? 🤣.
Dead-nuts accuracy!! Good video!!
Thanks Chucky Poo !!
The pros don't spend on B.S. Buying a pair of ATC40 SCM passives was one of the best moves I made. They image just fine, not random phase giving false enhancement to certain recordings and ruining others.
I’m in pro audio and the pros definitely buy into the BS marketing. Mainly nobody is going to book studio time if you have behringer, warm audio and dbx. 25k mics and 10k EQs is total BS but it sells for a reason.
@@automationtraveler That sounds promising. Never said it was cheap, just not B.S, the better studios cost mega bucks from what I've seen with ground isolation transformers and in wall speakers etc at the higher levels.
Bam. Nailed it. We didn't even talk about the marketing side of things
I'll take Bryston over Boulder all day, every day. Wrong example, Mikey. I dont own Bryston either.
Also sounds a ton better.
I'd go Bryston over Boulder. I actually can't stand Boulder... what gave you the idea I like it ? Bryston will never be more than a 20Year warranty Pro amp to me.
@OCDHIFiGuy I understand you can't stand Boulder. It was a statement that I would take Bryston over Boulder. Actually, I would take it over much of the overpriced hype and Tom Foolery out there. If you feel Bryston is Pro Audio, cool. I don't.
@@TEdward-pu6py bryston sound's amazing. I still have a older set in the office.
@AudioheavenDenmark I had Bryston. They are not bright like everyone says. A dealer in my city carries them as well. Nice stuff, and it sounds great. I think they are an absolute bargain.
Actually, I do use eq, a 1/3 octave eq (31 band ART) in my high fi rig. I have always had for 45 years of listening. And I really don't give a damn what audiophiles think of it. I love to have total control of my sound, and the eq is one tool in the tool box to get what I want.
Agreed. EQ is absolutely essential for headphones and many speakers too. Pro monitors generally extend out more into the treble and bass than similarly sized mid-rangey HiFi speakers. In Pro audio the designers expect end users to use EQ (in particular for bass/treble). In HiFi they expect you to buy a silly cable.
Lol. We are flushing out the Guitar Center buyers, aren't we ?? Lol
Go grab your DBX for $199... it's OK.
@@OCDHIFiGuy As expected...
@davidcarr2216 It's funny you said that about the midrange in HiFi speakers. That is exactly what I use the eq for in my HiFi speakers, almost always a slight decrease in the middle except for certain recordings.
Deeply impressed by the profound knowledge of audio on here - LOL.@@OCDHIFiGuy
Hey Mike, I also have ATC active speakers for several years now and find that they do image well. Pro audio speakers can be very detailed in the midrange, that could be why you get that feeling they are upfront and flatten the soundstage. I think it comes down to eq and the Fletcher Munson HiFi curve which creates a greater illusion of depth in the recording. Nothing wrong with that it's all down to personal taste, No loudspeaker is perfect but there may be a perfect loudspeaker for everybody. Thanks again 👍
You said it ! 👏
And your right . ATC speakers are some of the best and accurate at imagining. They tell no lies . I found it amusing how this ‘you tube ‘fellow says audio engineers or mixers don’t consider imagining and dimensionality.
Yeah . A few sweeping generalisations here . I’m a pro audio engineer and a hifi buff . And I think hifi is fantasy land .
That was exactly one of my points... lol. You laugh your ass off and say, get out of the studio with your fantasy shit
Fair enough. I was concerned that you thought mixing audio wasn’t about staging or 3d placement . I agree that some music is mixed for earbuds and Bluetooth speakers . I’d rather not concern myself with teen age girl sex music or dance music , as it is clearly not mixed with quality in mind .
You seem to be in the same ballpark as am I. I'm doing music production and a musician laying down the instruments. I want to hear all the details of what I'm doing. I also enjoy listening for this details in other recording. What do you suggest for listening in my case? I use and RME 2/4 DAC / AMP, Focal Solo 6 monitors for the main tracking, mixing, and listening, for phones I use LCD-5, Clear MG pros, Arya stealths, dt1990,1700. For mobile DAC/AMP is use an Apogee groove. I want to upgrade the Groove to MOJO 2, Swap or buy MM-500 and Araya organics. Then upgrade my desk DAC/AMP. Most Hi Fi people seem to think there are much better pieces than the RME ADI even my updated version 2/4. What would be the best DAC/AMP to drive the headphones I have at around $3000.00? Maybe that is all just for hi fi and I will miss al the information I need from the RME 2/4 and Groove?
If the goal is to replicate the performance of a musician, pro audio is the way to go. Hi fi doesn't have the horsepower for outdoor or any large room
Brilliant video dude. Very well said!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I want to be pulled in from
" 30 days in the hole" to "a million miles away" .
Mikey I was just watching your cable burner video, i found a 2nd hand unit. Cant wait to try it out.
Sweet !
Boooo!! The Hi-Fi boogeyman!! 😂😂. Keep up your nice work. Love the channel, very informative!! Cheers!
Much appreciated!
I usse pro speakers to find things to listen to and work. ATC is good nuff for that. My hifi rig is designed to give me squirrel food and ear stiffies
Which ones ? Why, Because they were cheap ? Are you replacing them with the Fischer& Fischers ?
You're talking about crap pro audio, the good stuff is comparable to high end gear.
Using a pair of Focal Twin Six Studio monitors with a sub as my Hi-fi rig!
Agreed. Focal Trio 11Be's are my hifi pro-audio system, and I don't believe better sound exists.
I will never go 100% pro audio or 100% hi-fi , the best of both worlds is the way to go. My favourite cup of tea is a quick , punchy , clean and clear sound.
Wilson Speakers. B.A.T. Amp..
I have a mini bi-amped concert system in my living room and have great spatial imaging. Granted I could probably blow my windows out if turned it all the way up. I really enjoy it at 1-10% of potential. I have 700 watts just for my dual 15 subwoofer but barely tickle the QSC amp driving it.
It's like driving a sports car up to 10mph 🤣
@ But what a full sound. I got to work with a similar system running sound for a local Church for seven years. Had to run 110 db+ just to overcome our drummer.
I wonder how many of us in the comments use EQ... I know I do.
I'll go to an Audio Exhibition next month and out of 100 Rooms, maybe 2 of them will use DSP for EQ. You will not even see one analog EQ.
Is Playback Designs MPD-8 Dream DAC for Pro audio if Mofi used it? Just joking!
Yep. It is. It's the only one I know of that reigns Supreme in both ends of the market !!
I'm doing a music production and a musician laying down the instruments. I want to hear all the details of what I'm doing. I also enjoy listening for this details in other recording. What do you suggest for listening in my case? I use and RME 2/4 DAC / AMP, Focal Solo 6 monitors for the main tracking, mixing, and listening, for phones I use LCD-5, Clear MG pros, Arya stealths, dt1990,1700. For mobile DAC/AMP is use an Apogee groove. I want to upgrade the Groove to MOJO 2, Swap or buy MM-500 and Araya organics. Then upgrade my desk DAC/AMP. Most Hi Fi people seem to think there are much better pieces than the RME ADI even my updated version 2/4. What would be the best DAC/AMP to drive the headphones I have at around $3000.00? Maybe that is all just for hi fi and I will miss al the information I need from the RME 2/4 and Groove?
My consultation is over the phone only. Second of all I'm not too familiar with headphones or headphone amps as I don't use either.. in your profession I recommend DANGEROUS MUSIC. Made in USA and kick butt sound..
Totally agree Mikey,
Sometime. Times we want our system to be both types of sound, nevermind, we'll will keep pissing about I guess, keeps us out of trouble..
Regards, Antony, Warrington Cheshire. England.
Hi Antony. The best HiFi systems are both accurate and engaging. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.. maybe I should say you can have your bangers and jam tarts in the same meal !
Your Bryston narrative is really dated. They have changed their sound signature a while back. Go listen to them again.
I will at CAF, but we could say the same about PS Audio, couldn't we ? SimAudio ? Parasound ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy I can’t speak for ps audio or parasound but sim is even different from bryston.
I really like the Bryston pre and amplifier in my system.
Mikey, Having worked in the Face Live Pre and Post Fade Production with Burnout from a Hard Days Night, all I want is Seductive Warm kicked back Escapism! I truly enjoy HiEnd HiFi Holographic Sound Stage with Depth, Width, and Height and the Ambience of the Realism we all are trying to Recreate! ✌and ❤ to you my Soul Brother for Expressing what I have Lived!
Thanks Brother !!
One of big problems of Hi-Fi is that it is still using a lot of outdated technologies and bad design patterns. For instance, use non-differential IO (RCAs), passive amping, which do require thick copper cables and actual bolts and nuts to connect, instead of active amping, single amp and big passive filtering on the output, instead of individual amps for each speaker type and tiny input filtering, use of linear amping instead of more efficient D-class. And I think HiFi are using -10dB, not +4, but not sure. With pro audio you just get whatever mic cable and whatever signal cable and that's just works like 99% of the time and produces the same and predictable result.
Off topic: I've been really enjoying your live streams my man! 👊👊
Glad you like them!
Well said 👍
Thx
The problem is once you get going it’s hard to stop
But it is fun 🥵
My friends an Enginer when I told him power cords, make a difference he was hysterical.
Lol. Totally. It's a fun game to play... like Jack in the box... SPROING !!
I disagree with the imaging comment.
Of course they want it to image, since they are creating the soundscape.
The only differences should be the functionality. That is for speakers to sit on top of a console or for an amp to fit in a rack and of course as you said to last forever.
Still dig your show man. No offense.
Peace
Yes, they want a solid center image. But that's not how I listen. I listen for layering and tonal density for instance. I've never heard pro guys use those terms. And in this vid, I laugh about what we as Audiophiles are after in terms of real world sound..
As someone who produces and mixes music, I am ALL about imaging. Imaging from my monitors is crucial because I am, like the commenter stated, trying to actually create the soundscape that the listener will hear (where do people think the spatial cues come from? the listener isn't the first to experience the holographic imaging). Whatever is reproduced in hifi is actually PRODUCED in the pro realm. In most commercial studios, the monitors are soffit-mounted and the rooms are acoustically treated (they're not "dead") to allow the monitors to behave as a point source. Many mastering studios have rooms that will literally blow away listening rooms with hyper-priced hifi gear. As much as I am involved in both pro audio and hifi, we're both after the same thing in many ways, it's just that many of us, like you [Mike] said, are not listening for our leisure because it's our job. But my splash cymbal better be panned right of center and I want to hear it right of center.
P.S. As an electrical engineer, fancy power cables are humorous. What is overpriced, oxygen-free copper in bulky insulation and nylon braiding going to do that a power conditioner, or at that, the output bulk capacitors in the power supply should be doing?
@@ssjlkrillin With regards to the comments in your P.S., I can give you some insights. What is it about more expensive materials used in high end cables and power accessories that's making a difference? I can't say. With audio, sometimes we know why something makes a difference, and sometimes we don't. However, one thing I noticed about skeptics, especially on the pro audio side of the issue, is if we can't offer an explanation and back it up with some type of measurements, whatever it is we're talking about is disregarded. I don't agree with that line of thinking, but I understand it. Wanting some type of proof is reasonable. But this is where the issue goes off the rails. If you guys (When I say you guys, I don't mean you specifically. I mean in general. People on your side of the argument.), can't get exactly the proof you want, your opinions tend to be conclusive. So, while we can't always explain why something sounds like it does, that doesn't mean the issue is settled. I would suggest you focus on things we can do.
If you want to take the first step into understanding issues like this, ignore all the subjective factors like price, value, good sound, bad sound, etc.. Focus only on the objective. For example, can copper cables sound different than silver cables? Yes or no. That's it. Everything beyond that is subjective. Is the price too high? You'll get a different answer from every person you ask. But if you just want to get an answer showing if the differences are real, we can do that rather easily. Its not difficult to set up a blind listening test that, if done properly, can yield scientifically valid results. If you can isolate all other variables and are left with just the 2 pairs of cables, or whatever it is you're testing, the test results will be fact. The "why" can be answered at a later date, but for now, you will know there are real differences. And that's a lot more than you knew before.
I'm now going to tell you something you may find offensive, but its not my intention. I'm just stating facts. With all the back and forth arguing that's been going on for the last 3-4 decades, no one on your side of the argument has ever done a single test that would be considered even remotely scientific on any of the high end products you find skeptical. Not a single test. If you don't believe me, just look into it. The test's don't exist. And this is where you need to start.
One last thing I know you'll bring up, is why can't I reference some tests? And the simple answer is, I've tried. Over the years I've done some extensive blind testing on high end audio equipment that produced quality results. No matter how well done my tests were, under no circumstances would the skeptics accept, or even consider, the results. If want answers, your side needs to do the testing.
Hey Mike. Love your videos. Now that you are talking about pro audio. What are your opinion on ATC loudspeakers? I'm. Having a pair of their scm300 actives at home. And love the sound I'm getting from them.
Best regards Nicklas from Denmark 😎
ATC is good stuff. I recently heard the difference with Augspurger and preferred it over ATC however..
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks a lot for the answer Mike. I have seen Augspurger, but as I'm in Denmark we normally only have the absurdly overpriced Danish brands in the stores unfortunately. So difficult to give them a listen.
Looking forward to your next videos.
RIAA curve is a lot of EQ right from the start with vinyl.
Yes, and the choice of microphone will have its own curve too..
Excellent explanation!
Glad it was helpful!
Do you have any experience with YBA amplifiers?
None. Supposed to be good older stuff from what I remember
Yo Mikey!!! I think I want true accuracy. I better get my ears on some of these so I make the right choice. Prolly hi fi for this guy. I also don't want to have to buy a new dac if I want to change the sound. I dunno.
Preach Bro’!!! 🤜🏼
Yessir !
Some producers like the great Bob Katz in Orlando know both sides, pro and home. He is balanced in his listening.
Great !
Pro Audio Guys: Using actual science, the laws of physics, and acoustics, they make decisions based on measurable, verifiable facts.
Hi-Fi Guys: Wrapping themselves in good old-fashioned snobbery, they use wine-tasting language to describe technical phenomena that already have established professional jargon rooted in physical and technical principles. But hey, dropping $10,000 on a cassette deck that sounds like my ass seems like a great idea if it lets me continue my brainless consumerism and call it a hobby.
This was helpful
Thx !
Bro I like the venom mention. Didn’t think you would be into that Hell yeah
LOL< caught that, huh ?
Back to guns........
I found this for ya dog- Atlanta Paintball.
Its a MUST DO at least once in your life, call them, make a date for you and your brother to play.
It will be one of the most fun things youve ever done and memories to last a life tiime!
OK.!! I'll try it !!
@@OCDHIFiGuy lol. sorry if i already mentioned it.
Mikey buy better burbon. I enjoy my SPL Phonitor 2 in my Hi-Fi using it as a pre-amp and HP amp. Just love it.
Good to know!
promaudio deals with the gritty concept of makeing the mix sound as it should fit, and then mastering entails not accentuating the freqs in the mix too much, because it can quickly reshspe the soundstage and insteumental balance in the mix, mastering needs to keep the soundstage where the mix sits balanced, which sometimes means the track comes out not as loud in certain rythmic parts of the track, pro audio can pick these issues up while glueing the mix into a track - its the optics that should keep the track balanced tonaly etc as well as how soundstage as a data of the mix is affected. most streaming services basically remix the track that actually cuts the sound height dynamic range etc to fit earphones ets since the soundsstage differs in size compared to in room etc. as well the tracks are then pushed into clipping, which gives a sense of an energetic track through ear,plug, headph9nes small desktop speakers. there is no high dynamic range that hifi audio gear with its many passive voicing teqniques and raw amplifier power to energize the room holograpphically etc. not that passive voicing corrupts the original teack, it should be said that in fact- it deliniates it more finely, with a film type feel, not video.
yes, using the gear to rework the sound of a track is possible, * does it make sense? if done correctly (speaker manufacturer- klipshe etcs.) it could create new sound cues which where laid back and less resolute in one paor of speakers and another the sound has more discernment at and threshold improvments without fatigue etc.
it should be noted that mastering as a concept of room scale requires small and large scale views of the track.
I use Mcintosh’s equalizer for lousy older recordings. Like Led Zeppelin, for example. All their songs sound muffled.
Not on my system they don't! But that's great, do whatever it takes !!
I guess I somewhat disagree. I have been around live music all life being a musician and enjoying live events. Hifi's goal is to attempt to create the live event and can be presented to the listener in a variety of ways: 1)home two channel; 2)car; 3)heaphones. In all these case the sound need only project a short distance. Pro audio as you state is for production of the music and for playing the music at at venue. Pro audio production designs their systems to be able to tune the sound to their target. Do they want good sound in the car? At home via a home theater system? Or for heaphones? You made it sound like sound engineers make no attempt to create a mix that sounds life like on a good stereo system. As far as the pro audio for sound at live events the goal is dispersion over a large area which means they need to be loud. There are some pro audio speakers that sound closer to live than hifi on certain forms of music. As good as my hifi equipment is (MG20.7 and MBL101) they dont remotely fool me into thinking it is live. There are some recordings that the pro audio duplicate identical to the live event.
I agree and stated that HiFi recreates a "fantasy" sound.. laid back and places instruments in the Soundstage. If we wanted to create "live" we would use a P.A. setup, wouldn't we ?
So we are not listening as the artist intended?
ROFL 🤣... Artists intend to sell records.. very few give a shit about the production process.
Lol 😂😂😂
yes the HIFI world is ridiculous. Audiophiliacs are tuning freaks, equal to trying to create a perfect subjective filter for your camera, to tint and fog and blur and colorize music, paint a certain atmosphere. Of course then every detail matters, zinc or copper or platinum, forward or backwards etc... yes completely ridiculous. What you call music producers pushes the specie into some sort of industrial process, no, they are sound artists working with their emotions to create music, not a technical product per se. I see audiophilacery as a sort of subjective and dilettante painting exercise. Embarrassing really.
Embarrassing only if one is fully under the ether and deems it SO important. It's simply music listening, and if one is aware of Audio Fallacy, then to proceed is by choice in a fun, light-hearted spirit..
Lower level brands like Emotiva are more forward
And first timers are seduced by that perceived volume.
Totally true. Like cranking the contrast on a TV.
PMC/ATC are somewhere inbetween i guess; quality....
Yes
one note 125 db prolonged=ear damage
Yep
Amphion genelec powered speakers is some of the pro speakers that can easily beat anything under the sun
Not.
I prefer Bourbon!👍
Augspurger.... do it...
hair is extra today!
Werd
LOL. Both need to reproduce the signal 1:1 or a best effort at that. There's no difference apart from that some equipment needs to be installed in a rack and needs active cooling. Looking at the signal there is zero difference.
Who looks at signal ? Rofl... PRO DUDES... we don't give a flying F.
Audio is audio its all good 😅
Right. Until the word Audiophile gets put into it. Lol.
most artists (sting,springsteen) face ear damage)
That's for sure
Put the mind to wok or the soul to rest. Good vid would be how similarly this is done in hifi also between natural reproduction and enhanced. Bigger and bigger bucks for the ever widening enhanced sound, confusing consumers.
The very best of pro audio will easily compete with and excel over hi-fi audio. The reverse might not be true.
LOL. then go buy your system at Guitar Center... it's on sale. ;-) I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I've spent time in million dollar Grammy winning studios and I prefer my system
@@OCDHIFiGuybuying at guitar system is way better than buying from a snake like you. Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Give me pro audio gear all day every day. With pro gear you get true, accurate sound not some bullshit which you imagine or which some HiFi bullshit merchant put in your head . The HiFi business is totally fake with terrible products and is nothing more than an upgrade merry go round. Save your BS Mikey.
All I read from your comment is BS...BS...BS...I don't have a clue about HI-FI gear...BS...BS...BS
Oh, I've known all about HiFi and the HiFi industry sinse about 1975. If you knew anything about it , you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole either..@@andru2625
Yes, no clue.. Guitar Center has a sale for you this weekend. You go with your Chinese ass Behringer and Mackie.. bottom line is if that actually fulfills you, be grateful. You have inexpensive taste. It's a blessing. Unfortunately I have the curse of only wanting luxury level durable goods.
I prefer JD I think I'm in the wrong game.
Jack Daniel's?
Hi Mikey................I like to listen to music, not analyze it.
Why bother have a stereo system if that’s your preference. Just get a great sounding high fidelity Bluetooth speaker and call it done.
Or listen through your phone speakers:)@@hiresaudiocosta873
My audio is like duck with mango salsa 😊
Yum !
do you sense the hint of anise in the salad? roflmao!!!!!
LOL< right ?
Yeah, nah don’t agree with this at all. Pro gear is very cool and way better value.
Who said it wasnt cool ?? LOL, listen for chrissakes instead of guessing what Im saying...