Very well said and explained. I agree with the emotional connection with the music. Sweet, rich, weight , smooth, timbre those are the attributes I listen for.
Yeah. This video has been suggested for days by TH-cam and I didn't listen because I thought it would just be a "it's great but I'm a dealer for stuff that's almost as good for 1/10th the price." But he's right. Real Hifi Help channel on TH-cam talks a lot about this type of thing. He's only in his mid 40s but has heard or owned more stereo gear then almost anyone will in their life. He explains his evolution as an audiophile. Today he hates dCS and Wilson and all that stuff. He believes that if you listen long enough (a month or so) your ear/brain connection will figure out what's going on to make the sound. He owned Wilson speakers back in the day and when he figured out what was doing what he couldn't stand them anymore. He helped my realize why I'd grown tired of my dCS rig and had given up on Audio. Now I own an Audio Note DAC 5 Signature and Meishu 300B integrated amplifier. And my copper interconnect sucked as well. I use silver now. Gigantic difference just with that. But most of the battle was just knowing why I'd lost my interest. Dealers want you confused and unsatisfied so you stay in the upgrade rat race forever. And I stopped listening to anything Jay says a long long time ago. I can't stand his stupid nonsense. Too bad money can't buy him a brain (though I suspect he's just doing it because he's becoming a dealer and wants to promote the addiction - which would mean he has no personal integrity if he can make money).
This video was so informative. I am really enjoying your channel, and I’m glad I started listening after I had seen other channels. You definitely bring it full circle.
The thing that I have a really hard time with is that I'm a classically-trained trumpet player, and I an acutely aware of what it sounds like to be in different types of rooms with several different kinds of instruments. So because I'm familiar with what real instruments sound like up close, it's hard for me to listen to systems and recordings without that highly-analytical mindset. When it's done right, it's magical.
I thought you were going to say you can't stand audio gear at all. Try Audio Note gear. That's the only company that really knows what they're doing. There are things that can be measured and things that can't. Engineers believe that if it can't be measured it doesn't exist. Most gear is designed by engineers and these engineers are really proud of how great they are so they're even worse then a lousy engineer would be. Time coherence is just one thing that can't be measured and it's why Audio Note sticks with single ended tube amps with tube rectifiers and no feedback. They don't even use circuits that have integral feedback. A single note coming off a violin, for example, contains the fundamental note plus a spray of harmonics. When the note travels through electronics it gets delayed according to frequency and so the final result sounds different. There will even be what people confuse as detail because it's a specific sound they've never heard before. They think this is proof that this equipment is better. But it's actually a sound that should be part of the violin note in which case it would sound like a violin note. It's too complicated for the university educated big brains to figure out because they couldn't claim it's all about them if they did. Audio Note prices go up into the stratosphere but that's because in order to preserve as much sound quality as possible with zero feedback and while running the signal through input and output transformers, inter-stage transformers and rectifying the power with a choke, the parts quality needs to be silly high. They're Level 3 gear sounds really good though and is only expensive, not heart attack expensive like their Level 5 gear.
@bunsw2070 Thank you for your intelligent, thoughtful feedback regarding Audionote products. How would you compare them with Constelation, Solution or Boulder?
I have heard the Wilson Alex V with McIntosh amps and Esoteric cd player. This is 2 steps up from mine. The synergy was there. I almost cried. Jay is doing what makes him happy. Jay is the best.
Yeah Jay, those were one of the sickest speakers Ive yet seen man...Compared to a $250K speaker that a guy we know sells I can see where the money goes in a Wilson compared to that other brand. .. Im still trying to hear Wilson to where I fall in love with the sound however.. Dont get me wrong, its "perfect" sound, but I dont connect with the music, I connect with the sonic presentation.
Ho, I realy enjoyd your video, I can very much relate to what your saying. As for me, I have found my time maschine and emotinal transcender- The mighty TL2 loudspeaker, a design of Troels Gravesen of Denemark. All the best from Germany!
What if you combine one of these revealing speakers with a warm, lush tube amp and warm, lush pure analog records and tapes? Does the balance of that work for you? (Your analogies to women and video are spot on.)
Absolutely spot on Mike! You're absolutely correct on the issues in reference to sound quality. As an example, while my vintage Sansui 5050 connected to my Klipsch Heresy III's sounds fantastic, it in no way has that clinical, totally clean sound that you are referring to - Iike you said, it all comes down to what you prefer.
Use to manage a high end store is SoCal. And I agree 💯 percent. Now my rig is Maggie's and I love the non fatiguing quality. Thank God for the non kiss-ass work you do, love it.😊
I've heard Maggie's are sweet, but can be lacking in Bass. I like RUSH, Led Zeppelin, and Stevie Ray Vaughan along with Lyle Lovett, Bryan Ferry, and Tony Bennett. In your opinion, would Wharfedale 4.4's run better with the Outlaw RR 2160 mkii or Cambridge Audio separates? I might use the system as an AV setup also. Thanks in advance.
Good one! I lived with various Magnepans from 1999 until last year when I sold my pair of 3.7i. My local Maggie dealer is also a Wilson dealer and the Wilson sound has always been too clinical for my tastes as you mentioned. However, the Wilson Sabrina is nothing like the rest of them. I have not pulled the trigger yet but....really tempted. they sound just the opposite of the rest of the Wilsons, effortless on any type of music.
If I may suggest bringing a pair home on loan to live with them for a few days (IF your nearby dealer will agree to that, naturally :-) before pulling the trigger . . . yes they may sound DIFFERENT from other Wilsons but in the long run, I believe you might end up missing the "no box sound" of your Maggies :-) Just saying . . . Wilsons, to me at least, are in the category of "amazing until they're not" after many hours of listening . . . I hope a several day try out with them will prove me wrong about this for your sake. Happy listening and good luck.
I'd suggest one of two things. Sell all your gear and leave audio all together (if I wasn't single I'd have done that myself long ago - I'm serious about this. I think most people would be far better off without this insane monkey on their back). Or sell all your gear and do a total rebuild with all Audio Note gear. You can build your own power cables using silver wire and according to the amperage requirement of each power cord (there's your money savings - by as much as possible used but knowing there are a lot of counterfeits out there).
@@bunsw2070 YEP . . . it's a vicious circle . . . the Audio mags review gear and hype it up so that the manufacturers buy more advertising space and the circle keeps on going and most people chase their audio tails for most of their lives LOL
20 something years ago I got my CD collection stollen, when I replaced them I promised myself to buy music that I enjoyed and forget the quality of the recording, Diana Krall and Patricia Barber where out of my life, what a relief. Obviously my speakers also had to go, but with the system I have now, I'm able to listen to most of my records with joy and it sounds darn good.
The cleaner the sound and the better the measurements the more I started to connect with most music. I started with the SE tubes and full range drivers and I'm getting more and more into the ultra low distortion and well measuring gear. And I love it. With the earcandy comes my connection to the music. But to each their own. Everybodies journy is unique.
@@OCDHIFiGuy It had it's charm but is was limited in the music that sounded great on it. And it was not my kind of music to say the least. My current setup does electronic music really really well and that's what I built it to do. Clean PA power with PA horns and PA woofers. Dinamics to die for!
Well they’re definitely the antithesis of say an Audio Note set-up. Or Mikey’s rig for that matter…Just a different head space and listening philosophy/perspective. That’s all it is.
Alaniss Morissette the singer said recently as a judge on American idol to a contestant that their voice was too polished meaning it was so clean and pure that the audience could not connect to the emotion of the voice. She suggested to dial back the voice to 70% at some points to hear the cracks and edges in the voice so that listeners could emotionally connect to the music. That sounds like what you are referring to as some speakers brands that are too perfect or clean with the sound that you lose the heart and soul of the singers voice and the performance.
Alanis Morissette likely thinks a jack hammer's sound is too smooth. Seriously, I have that hit album of hers and the sound quality is tosh. And her singing. My God! I never thought I'd say it but I wish she'd gone to the Leonard Cohen School of Real Good Singing. I have the next one after that and now that my system is better I realized even that one sounds bad. My God what's with Canadian singers. I don't mean to criticize you. Her voice is a pet peeve of mine. And the fact that she's alive and I know about it. How'd she get famous? Oh well. At least we still have Justin Bieber. Oh wait. He's got half frozen face from the jibby jab. Well, at least we still have Celine Dionne. Oh Wait. She's got full facial frozen face from the jibby jab. How about Nickelback? They have a new album. I've taken out a lone to get that. Seriously, I think OCD is trying to be nice. Maybe he doesn't feel he has an adequate scientific explanation of why they sound bad so he's trying to say they're too good. They're not too good. They're crap. And there are mountains of science to explain it. Real Hifi Help and Real World Audio explain it in detail. Especially the first one. He owned them himself and explains his evolution or maturation as an audiophile from beginning to end. He has two friends that own Level 5 Audio Note systems that he listens to regularly. He started at the beginning and arrived at the end. He knows and spends hours explaining it. And these guys claiming they're the best speakers they've ever heard are telling the truth. They have electronics that are they type of electronics you'd need for these speakers and they tried different speakers. I wonder if they ever heard an Ongaku Kensei and M9 Phono Signature? Just as a reference.
@@bunsw2070 To fine tune my reply about Alanis's advice, I was speaking specifically about autotuned over produced sounds, where they tease out the emotion! To tell the contestant to purposely sound worse not good guidance! Alanis's first LP is excellent!
I went the other way, been audiophile for 20 years, started with more relax vantage equipments which slowly went to the more clean and analytical/transparent. I love it as I love listening to the mastering which is more what you listen to on a record/flac vs real life. Like he said it will never sound like real life. I appreciate the effort and art of putting all of this together
My only experience with Wilson was an afternoon with my Audio Matiere Majuscule integrated tube amp and the Cub 2. It nearly brought me to tears. I would say the "imperfection" of tubes was a match.
Well, for me, this is the best advert for Wilson and Magico because I want analytical sound, free of any coloration. This is BTW their goal, more so with the Magico.
Spoken like a newbie. Nothing wrong with that. See how long you remain in the analytical sound camp after the years go by. You'll end up with McIntosh and Sonus Faber
@@OCDHIFiGuy I must confess, I wouldn't mind Sonus Faber and McIntosh. They're speakers done right with the warmth and softness in mind that would melt even the harder ones. You're probably right, and i wish you'd be right about me ending up with Sonus Faber!
Question for you Mikey, i don't know if you are a dire Straits fan or not but i completely understand where your coming from about systems that are too resolute however with out finding a good middle ground it can prevent the listener from missing details in the music case in point the Dire Straits song private investigations has 3 non musical effect sounds contained within it footsteps, someone breathing and a breaking glass when i listen to the song on headphones i hear all of these elements but when i listen to the same song on my stereo system i need to crank it up to about 95db to hear any of these effects however i normally only listen between 75-80db other than feeling that i may sometimes be missing out on some musical details i actually do really enjoy the sound of my system and i do connect emotionally with the music so ultimately i would like to put together a system were i would not lose the emotional connection but not miss out on any musical details so my question to you is what types of gear do you recommend to accomplish that goal...PS thanks for all the great content!😀
Yes, yes. I came to this by comparing to live grand piano in the same room and for me, for example Vinni Rossi tube integrated and Von Schweikert speakers give that liquid, organic with nuance and dynamics by not artificially accented or artificially clean. Well said Mikey!
Yes, you can. TAD is one of those brands I always wanted to listen too but never had the chance too, cause they’re so expensive. Probably the most expensive Japanese speaker brand is TAD. Can characterise on how they actually sound Mike, or maybe have them on your channel one day? Love your pure honesty on this channel, we need more people like you in this snake oil infested audiophile industry! Thank you Mike!
I think both Wilson's and Magico sound best being driven by tube amps and pre amps. Perhaps because they sound less clinical when driven by tube gear. I've heard Wilsons at many levels in person over the past 25 years, and IMO Wilson's need tubes. I had not heard Magico's in person before Axpona 23. In the room where Alon Wolf was the Magico S3 was being driven by tubes. That room did not sound fatiguing after about 30 minutes of listening. I also spent almost an hour in the Magico M2 room being driven by solid state gear. I thought that room sounded great which it did, but when I went from there directly to the Gershman/VAC room I felt tension release from my upper body that I did not realize was there in the Magico M2 room. So I "felt" better listening in the Gershman/VAC room compared to the Magico M2 room even though the M2 room had a more detailed sound. Live music is not that ultra detailed. It's thick and big sounding, but the instruments in the back of the band are not as loud as the instruments in front. This is what I have strived to achieve in my own system for years.
My understanding is you have to own them and listen to them intently for hours everyday to figure them out. OCD is experienced so can make a quick assessment. I still think he's not right on target though. The reason they suck is for 3 reasons. Firstly, they have a ton of drivers that are all different and they each produce different sound signatures (you'll figure them out eventually and hate the speakers when you do). Second is that because there are so many drivers they cover narrow frequency bands and require high order crossovers for them to sharply cutoff the frequencies to each driver. This means the crossover is going to play a more prominent role in the sound and are going to destroy the efficiency of the speakers (Real World Audio has a video showing the true efficiency of one of the large Focals - it's really bad even though the published value claims they're really efficient). Third is that because of the poor efficiency you need powerful amps. Any company making tube amps that makes a powerful amp (VAC, I'm looking at you) has rocks for brains and is likely deaf. If you want a tube amp (and you do) figure out how you can live with 25 watts max. All you need are speakers that are efficient. You want solid state as far away from your stereo as possible. Anyone who advises otherwise is deaf or has a crap system and doesn't know it. Or you can leave audio all together. Or spend all your money forever trying to get your system to sound satisfying. That last one is what they want. I'm old. I remember all the crap Stereophile was raving about that is now generally considered bad sounding or is totally forgotten. Remember Lamm? Remember Balanced Audio Technology? Remember Sonic Frontiers? Remember Halcro? Halcro were these mega dollar solid state amps that had more feedback then God to achieve previously unheard low levels of harmonic distortion. They loved them. The only problem was they sounded really hard and thin. Just like you'd expect from a solid state amp with as much feedback as could possibly be applied. They likely were excellent sonic paint removers though. If you have to have solid state just stay modest and live your life. Get married and have a family or something. Do anything but don't go nuts with audio gear. Maybe become a degenerate gambler instead. That makes a lot more sense then chasing the impossible with solid state electronics designed by engineering big brains. The dealers will love you but you'll wish you'd just lost it all in Vegas. Maybe take up Russian Roulette as a pass time. That is even smarter. Or join the Ukraine army and ask to be taken to the front lines. Or take up Fentanyl. Anything but "cutting edge" solid state high end audio (and most of the tube gear is junk as well).
@@bunsw2070 There are a few tube amp companies that make high powered amps (more than 300 watts per channel) other than VAC, and ie Manley, VTL. What do you believe is the problem with high watt tube amps? I will have to admit that I heard a Phasemation tube amp at Axpona that was in the below 20watts per channel that did sound amazing. It was driving speakers that were 92 db sensivity with no problem. The amps were still not cheap, at 30k per pair. BTW I'm old too, lol.
You are correct Mikey! I am Using the TAD CE-1 BE edition, combined with a monster Krell FPB-700cx amp, combined with a dCS Paganini and Master Clock etc, and the sound from the dCS makes the sound sounding very fast and correct, but is almost to correct as you saying
I can relate to this. Sonic fireworks are distracting bringing the focus more towards the system than the music for the listener. Out of curiosity,how do you feel about Vivid audio and YG?
Ok Wilson Alexx-V factory set up sounds amazing with a triangle art tube preamp and a class A Krell i400 400watt power amp. Dude it’s soulful! That’s why Michael Fremer uses DartZeal that’s more musical and soulful on his Wilson’s
Mikey....what about TAD? Where you would you place them...more in the Wilson/Magico type of sound camp? Or different? If so, in what way? Would love to get your opinion on them...
Heard and had Wilsons and Focals, couldn't disagree with you more. My pairings have been superb and musical. And to go against the grain here, i've moved on from relaxed speakers to ones that are more accurate, and faster. And to add, i listen more than ever with my Focals. And i never did with past speakers. I've been in this game for over 35 years.
@@scarabeo500gt It's really matter of taste. I heard the kanta 2 and loved them but then I heard the sf olympica III and thought well not my taste but wished the Kantas were a little bit more like the OLympicas in musicality. So I want something in between.
Mikey, That's a good honest answer on what music should probably sound like. I bet you would like the old Marantz gear! My biggest regret was selling a J.R. Coherence preamp with new modules from Jeff. To bad we are always looking to improve on something that already sounds great. As far as speakers go try the Block Audio Shelf Blocks which I purchased to keep cost down and very glad I did. Question: have you ever heard the newer tape deck M 002 P from Ballfinger?
A Wilson or Magico with a tube pre-amp and solid state amp is the solution for those speakers. There are even some integrated amps (like the McIntosh MA12000) with a tube pre-amp stage and solid state power output stage. I have noticed that 3 different reviewers at Absolute Sound have an Audio Research pre-amp and solid-state power amp like Boulder as their reference electronic components.
EXACTLY !! Do you think it's just a coincidence that they use ARC ??? Lol. They are given "extended loans" of that gear by the biggest advertisers. Hello !! 👋
@@OCDHIFiGuy There are a lot of companies that give them extended loaner equipment, but I noticed 3 different reviewers at Absolute Sound have ARC pre-amps. Are all of those ARC loans? I doubt it, but even if they are all loans they could use other loaned pre-amps from other companies. Of course, an ARC Reference pre-amp cost is out of the reach of most persons, but there are other tube-preamp an solid-state amp combos that are much more affordable.
Agreed, my priorities have shifted after years of being an audiophile. Towards rich, lush, saturated, "analog", smooth. Of course, I happily accept dynamics, detail and transparency. But at the end of the day, the rich complexity of the tone is what I'm after.
I find nothing wrong with Wilson speakers. Due to the fact that they play super-resolution, I have the possibility with the right electronics to put together a nicely balanced system. With a more restrained speaker, I have to rely more on high-resolution electronics. My Sasha DAW do not tire me with the right electronics even after hours.
I come late to the party but U agree with every word .I was a wilson guy for 25 years .One day I realised that I always listen too the same type of music and that music is being dictate to me by the speakers. I switched to BW801 and realised that they are way more musical .not as accurate not as analytical but it felt right to me .
Mikey I love listening to your reviews, never have I learned so much watching and listening to you. Thank you and keep up the amazing work. We love you man and oh I have a girl who's just like the first example you gave lol😂
It is relatively simple. Select the equipment you enjoy the most regardless of anybody else's opinion, whether or not the system is truly accurate, or whether it is popular amongst the high end industry reviewers. In fact no one can know what you hear and cant tell you that the system you like best isnt the most accurate. It may not be to them but certainly can be for you.
Selecting the equipment you enjoy takes 20 years of buying and selling, losing money each time. This channel is for those who want to trust me to do that for them and back it up with a 100% money back guarantee and an 80% value buyback policy. Otherwise, yeah, screw anybodys opinion and trial and error this crap for the next 10 to 20 years..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I appreciate what you do but must disagree for at least me that you need to spend 20 years evaluating by trial and error for a system you enjoy and lose money. From the beginning I chose the equipment I enjoyed the most independent of any reviews or any concerns about accuracy. As time went on I didnt sell and buy new equipment because they were on trial and I made an error, it was because I was now in a position to afford better equipment. I enjoyed every system I had with no regrets and even though I couldnt sell the equipment for what I paid for it I did not lose money. The difference between buy and sell is simply the cost of enjoying the equipment while I owned it. What I did find along the way is that no one system could reproduce all forms of music to best of my liking resulting in my current systems which are MBL 101, MG20.7, and Meyer Sound line arrays. I am sure you can determine which kinds of music play best on each to my ear.
Great analysis, Mike. Just reminded me of when I had dinner some 30 years ago with a friend in San Francisco. He was dating Catherine Deneuve who I thought was one of the most beautiful women in the world. I'll save the details for a less public forum, but your take on Wilson/Magico/MSB reminded me of his thoughts on Catherine. I was still somewhat envious, but it was an experience I could easily live without.
So true with Magico everytime I hear them they sound so unnatural and grating...I suppose with the right system matcing they could be different but maybe its better to get something natural sounding to start?!
I completely disagree. You are condemning the speakers and amp for the problems with the MSB or dCS DAC. They just play, perfectly, what the DAC sends them. With Playback Designs MPT8/MPD8, they play awesome. So take your Playback to Jay's and try again. The XVXs will be amazing.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I think they like to say they have them,... yeah I have DCS or MSB beat that. While not realizing it maybe too much when combined with Wilson, Magico's.
@@OCDHIFiGuy The worst systems I have heard were DCS, Wilson, D'Agostino and Transparent Audio. Completely sterile. The dealers love this pairing, probably some financial arrangement.
From the heart Mike, appreciate your view much! I’ll get your points, but for most people they need some help. I wanted to say this, but you already noticed yourself. :)
This is everyone’s journey. Crazy neutral transparent etc to finally smoother more musical sound. Literally every persons journey. Some just travel the journey slower than others.. cough Jay cough 😂
It's the typical control theory before reaching steady state compared to what a person's ultimate desire is. You don't know what you don't like until you overshoot your target and have to reverse course a bit to get there. Most gears when we are start out are low in resolution and dynamics, so there's a general trend to reach for more of both, eventually you'll overshoot on those aspects to realize it could be too much of a good thing and then back off. Each of us though have different targets, so too warm for one is perfect for another, but the trajectory to reach that target is similar.
Mikey, I started watching your channel when you were obsessed with taking your Maggies as far as they could go, and it was quite a trip. Whether I've simply missed some of your content or whatever, I've yet to hear your opinion of the Martin Logan hybrid 'stats, especially the more expensive models. The practical part of me says 'what use is a speaker that demands the listener sit in exactly the right spot, and feed it gobs of power, in 2023 ?' but audiophiles are nothing if not masochists. Visually, they definitely fit into your 'Type A' audiophile category - function over bragging rights - but I'd be interested in your thoughts. Thanks in advance. Edit : forgot to add that they also reportedly treat poor mixes with contempt - looks like I can kiss my Halsey collection goodbye ;)
Hi Arthur, I never liked Electrostatic technology for myself. The idea of AC power and big power supplies in my speaker kills it for me. I don't like the IDEA before I even listen. Then when I listen, they have killer mids but lack on highs and deep lows for me. I guess ML adds a dynamic woofer but it's just not my cup of tea.. I think the big ones are supposed to be great and they look cool, but not my Jam.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on the subject. I agree very much with what you said. In general, I don't like a speaker that comes in parts and you have to start assembling and doing a million tweeks. I prefer the traditional and simple construction. A speaker made of a quality wooden box with several drivers. Connect and enjoy the sound
I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! The Wilson and Magico sound is so unnaturally clean, I feel like putting on my goggles and bunny suit and going into the silicon chip room where no dust. Zero dust. I WANT DUST!! The dust is where my ears live. Back in the day starting out, I was attracted to ESS speakers because they had a super clean top end with the new AMT tweeter. Now, I couldn’t stay in the room with them.. Keep on keeping on Mikey. Love your channel, and your content.
I agree, in my past I had well to do friends with amazing systems - lyngdorf -oracle - no dacs ( I'm old) the systems were absolutely amazing but I like a tiny bit of warmth and what I call power - I don't mean watts .. I know the biz when I hear it - searing crystal diamond precision is sexy but its not me either .
What makes a recording connect favorably w/ a listener can vary immensely and every system throws a different lens on any recording you put on. There are rock recordings that to most ears will sound better in my truck than they do on the $120k system in my listening room. Generalizations about Wilson, Harbeth, Rowland, Burmester, Magnepan etc. are easy to come by and often don't hold up in specific playback environments. A staggeringly vast number of variables are in play when we listen to music. Fussing over many of these variables is usually putting the cart before the horse since most guys who are into high end audio have have pretty weak music collections (or a very limited knowledge of where the bus goes when it comes to music). Someone who has a well put together $7k system and is ravenously seeking out (new and old) music is light years ahead of most audiophiles. If more energy goes into hi fi than goes into checking out music, the weakest link in the component chain is usually gonna be between the ears of the listener.
Film mode is actually about getting the best performance out of your tv in the dark where it can get the best darks vs the boundaries it has to push to get brightness in lighted areas
I totally understand what you're saying. Sometimes you start inching down that "more detail" path without realizing you're doing it. Before you know it, you've gone too far and what you end up with are a bunch of individual sounds, not music.
Hi !!! It is like the land speed record. At a certain point, the car goes so fast that the wheels are barely touching the ground. We like the speed, but if we cannot feel the road anymore, then what's the point? Connecting to the music on an emotionnal level is more important than hearing every last iota of information. Thanks for reminding us of that truth !!!
You’re on a roll man, well said!! 👍👍 P.S. 100% correct it was appealing at first to be wowed by the laser sharp analytical speakers/systems , but after 30 plus years my system has to move me and I connect with it and that’s exactly what my system does now.
Sometimes expensive hi-fi gear can be like listening to the architect from the matrix, very accurate descriptions but a little souless, as opposed to a charismatic speaker explaining the same story, not quite as informative but really enjoyable as some non-standard phrases or voice inflections were used, making you laugh or cry along the way.
Your take on all things HI-FI saves your subs thousands of listening hours evaluating gear and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Appreciate the effort!
I am not only a DIY-speaker maker, but I am also a musician, and I put my whole being in the pieces I am playing. Do I want to have it reproduced where people can not hear and appreciate my efforts to make it sound as good as possible? It is like to have a house at the most beautiful place but actually want to have dirty windows. It is like to wanna have a dirty mirror so you can not see how you actually look. Music matter, and to honor the musicians, we as audiophiles should aim for the best sound possible.
I Hear you perfectly , And in special after a certain experience and age , I do not care about perfection , I must engage with the music played by a system on a emotional level , The rest I do not care anymore .
I have owned many speakers over 40 years with my system. I don’t get into looks as much as sound. I prefer real sound that sounds like my instruments and close my eyes and feel I am in the room recorded sitting close to stage. I switched back to Tube amp from SS after a year with SS & tube preamp. My system is now to me lots more musical and flowing as live in room. Just Enjoy the Music not the gear as much! Blessings my Audio friend. Larry
I experience the same kind of confusion distraction when listening to most speakers. I've become aware that loudspeakers I prefer make me move not able to stop or even cry due to there ability to bring out the artists human emotions very naturally. Also when my attention is kept on the music and my mind doesn't wonder I know the speakers are doing good job.
I'll embarrass any DCS with my DAC that's under $30K... PLAYBACK DESIGNS. Founded by the guy that invented sample rate conversion for music. Same guy that developed SACD for Sony... his design team is better than DCS in my opinion... ring DAC is tired...
Maybe one advantage of an analytical mindset is if you don't have time to listen for hours. I don't know. I have been trying to find a point of diminishing returns and get to a stopping point. Curiosity about what the high end sounds like isn't helping. My Sansui 2000 into some JBL Studio 590's is pretty nice. It would be best if I could just stay there, (purchase wise) for a while :) Seems to resolve detail well. I am sure to many here, I am speaking of cheap-skate blasphemy :)
I think that's an excuse for fatigue. Who wants time anxiety associated to thier music listening ? Not me. If you are happy with what you've got, then forget it. Just enjoy music!!
"Dealer/HiFi Sound" is what I call a Reference System w/ultimate detail delivery. Spks can be tamed w/tubes & 'warm' sources for balanced/enjoyable SQ.
You got it Man, it's the difference between the well renowned and the really good 😉. More importantly, my rule of thumb is if I can hear the sound of the instrument over how it's being played, then it's not working for me. That's what I define as a 'Hi Fi Sound' no matter how good it sounds, the musicians play 2nd fiddle to the sound. But if I honest it what most people like when they listen on a superficial basis. 🤔
I'm a musician and you're 100% spot on re: what high end hifi listeners are trying to recreate...generally, live shows aren't even CLOSE to what high end peeps are trying to recreate. Playing to an audience means you are trying to generate pleasing sound to MANY people..not one person sitting in a 'sweet spot'. I don't care if it's rock or a symphony. The high end audio 'perfect sound' is based on syphoning down a live performance for ALL to a singular performance for ONE.
I am at lower tier of hifi, my rig is about 5k all together but I am experiencing very simmilar think here, I purchased kef ls50s metas and hooked them to electrocompaniet eci 80d, In relative terms this is highly resolving system, not fatiguing etc at all but I can clearly remember how I was driven by music listening to triangle borea br2 conected to naim xs2, it was kind of fun and I was enjoing the music. This does not happen here.
Very well said and explained. I agree with the emotional connection with the music. Sweet, rich, weight , smooth, timbre those are the attributes I listen for.
Last week, my girlfriend said to me " You get rid of the Klipschorn or I leave" So, as a gentleman, I called a cab for her.
LOL, a true Gentleman.... ..
😂
I would have called a really big cab and shoved both of them in 🥳
Love it
That was kind, I hate when someone draws that kind of line
Arguably this is the best, truthful, sincere analysis of the music systems I have ever heard. Congratulations!
Yeah. This video has been suggested for days by TH-cam and I didn't listen because I thought it would just be a "it's great but I'm a dealer for stuff that's almost as good for 1/10th the price." But he's right.
Real Hifi Help channel on TH-cam talks a lot about this type of thing. He's only in his mid 40s but has heard or owned more stereo gear then almost anyone will in their life. He explains his evolution as an audiophile. Today he hates dCS and Wilson and all that stuff. He believes that if you listen long enough (a month or so) your ear/brain connection will figure out what's going on to make the sound. He owned Wilson speakers back in the day and when he figured out what was doing what he couldn't stand them anymore. He helped my realize why I'd grown tired of my dCS rig and had given up on Audio. Now I own an Audio Note DAC 5 Signature and Meishu 300B integrated amplifier. And my copper interconnect sucked as well. I use silver now. Gigantic difference just with that.
But most of the battle was just knowing why I'd lost my interest. Dealers want you confused and unsatisfied so you stay in the upgrade rat race forever. And I stopped listening to anything Jay says a long long time ago. I can't stand his stupid nonsense. Too bad money can't buy him a brain (though I suspect he's just doing it because he's becoming a dealer and wants to promote the addiction - which would mean he has no personal integrity if he can make money).
This video was so informative. I am really enjoying your channel, and I’m glad I started listening after I had seen other channels. You definitely bring it full circle.
The thing that I have a really hard time with is that I'm a classically-trained trumpet player, and I an acutely aware of what it sounds like to be in different types of rooms with several different kinds of instruments. So because I'm familiar with what real instruments sound like up close, it's hard for me to listen to systems and recordings without that highly-analytical mindset. When it's done right, it's magical.
I thought you were going to say you can't stand audio gear at all. Try Audio Note gear. That's the only company that really knows what they're doing. There are things that can be measured and things that can't. Engineers believe that if it can't be measured it doesn't exist. Most gear is designed by engineers and these engineers are really proud of how great they are so they're even worse then a lousy engineer would be.
Time coherence is just one thing that can't be measured and it's why Audio Note sticks with single ended tube amps with tube rectifiers and no feedback. They don't even use circuits that have integral feedback. A single note coming off a violin, for example, contains the fundamental note plus a spray of harmonics. When the note travels through electronics it gets delayed according to frequency and so the final result sounds different. There will even be what people confuse as detail because it's a specific sound they've never heard before. They think this is proof that this equipment is better. But it's actually a sound that should be part of the violin note in which case it would sound like a violin note. It's too complicated for the university educated big brains to figure out because they couldn't claim it's all about them if they did.
Audio Note prices go up into the stratosphere but that's because in order to preserve as much sound quality as possible with zero feedback and while running the signal through input and output transformers, inter-stage transformers and rectifying the power with a choke, the parts quality needs to be silly high. They're Level 3 gear sounds really good though and is only expensive, not heart attack expensive like their Level 5 gear.
@bunsw2070 Thank you for your intelligent, thoughtful feedback regarding Audionote products. How would you compare them with Constelation, Solution or Boulder?
Try and have a listen to Dunlavy SC-V speakers. No longer made, but still around. You may like them.
@@bunsw2070
Whenever you say, some company is the only company that knows what they’re doing you lose all credibility clown.
Whoa... he complimented my Wilsons XVX....WOWWWWW
I have heard the Wilson Alex V with McIntosh amps and Esoteric cd player. This is 2 steps up from mine. The synergy was there. I almost cried. Jay is doing what makes him happy. Jay is the best.
Jay, your speakers can be dialed to anyone's taste with amps and DACs.
I know what I heard and it was there.
Yeah Jay, those were one of the sickest speakers Ive yet seen man...Compared to a $250K speaker that a guy we know sells I can see where the money goes in a Wilson compared to that other brand. .. Im still trying to hear Wilson to where I fall in love with the sound however.. Dont get me wrong, its "perfect" sound, but I dont connect with the music, I connect with the sonic presentation.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I own Wilson before and now CR1 TX with Pilium gear and I am in ❤
Ho, I realy enjoyd your video, I can very much relate to what your saying. As for me, I have found my time maschine and emotinal transcender- The mighty TL2 loudspeaker, a design of Troels Gravesen of Denemark. All the best from Germany!
What if you combine one of these revealing speakers with a warm, lush tube amp and warm, lush pure analog records and tapes? Does the balance of that work for you? (Your analogies to women and video are spot on.)
I'm testing this theory. It would mean every person's system I've ever heard, even at shows, mismatches these speakers consistently...
So what products, brands, equipment are you listening to that connects you with the music?
So what is your idea of a brand that creates natural, emotionally involving sound?
Playback Designs>ViolaLabs or Jeff Rowland > T.A.D. or Modified Magnepan
🤣😂🤣😂
Jeff Rowland sounds dead. The other garbage you mentioned is something you sell
Absolutely spot on Mike! You're absolutely correct on the issues in reference to sound quality. As an example, while my vintage Sansui 5050 connected to my Klipsch Heresy III's sounds fantastic, it in no way has that clinical, totally clean sound that you are referring to - Iike you said, it all comes down to what you prefer.
Use to manage a high end store is SoCal. And I agree 💯 percent.
Now my rig is Maggie's and I love the non fatiguing quality. Thank God for the non kiss-ass work you do, love it.😊
20.7s & Rel Carbon Specials
JLA cr-1 active crossover
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms
I've heard Maggie's are sweet, but can be lacking in Bass.
I like RUSH, Led Zeppelin, and Stevie Ray Vaughan along with Lyle Lovett, Bryan Ferry, and Tony Bennett.
In your opinion, would Wharfedale 4.4's run better with the Outlaw RR 2160 mkii or Cambridge Audio separates?
I might use the system as an AV setup also.
Thanks in advance.
Hey Mike. Can u do a review of the very classic B&W Matrix 800 speakers ? I’d love to hear what u say about them.
Great video I totally agree with you on this have you tried the tannoy Westminster they are amazingly good 😊
Good one! I lived with various Magnepans from 1999 until last year when I sold my pair of 3.7i. My local Maggie dealer is also a Wilson dealer and the Wilson sound has always been too clinical for my tastes as you mentioned. However, the Wilson Sabrina is nothing like the rest of them. I have not pulled the trigger yet but....really tempted. they sound just the opposite of the rest of the Wilsons, effortless on any type of music.
If I may suggest bringing a pair home on loan to live with them for a few days (IF your nearby dealer will agree to that, naturally :-) before pulling the trigger . . . yes they may sound DIFFERENT from other Wilsons but in the long run, I believe you might end up missing the "no box sound" of your Maggies :-) Just saying . . . Wilsons, to me at least, are in the category of "amazing until they're not" after many hours of listening . . . I hope a several day try out with them will prove me wrong about this for your sake. Happy listening and good luck.
I'd suggest one of two things. Sell all your gear and leave audio all together (if I wasn't single I'd have done that myself long ago - I'm serious about this. I think most people would be far better off without this insane monkey on their back). Or sell all your gear and do a total rebuild with all Audio Note gear. You can build your own power cables using silver wire and according to the amperage requirement of each power cord (there's your money savings - by as much as possible used but knowing there are a lot of counterfeits out there).
@@bunsw2070 YEP . . . it's a vicious circle . . . the Audio mags review gear and hype it up so that the manufacturers buy more advertising space and the circle keeps on going and most people chase their audio tails for most of their lives LOL
20 something years ago I got my CD collection stollen, when I replaced them I promised myself to buy music that I enjoyed and forget the quality of the recording, Diana Krall and Patricia Barber where out of my life, what a relief. Obviously my speakers also had to go, but with the system I have now, I'm able to listen to most of my records with joy and it sounds darn good.
When I go to a live classical concert, I often close my eyes to dive deeper in the MUSIC
The cleaner the sound and the better the measurements the more I started to connect with most music. I started with the SE tubes and full range drivers and I'm getting more and more into the ultra low distortion and well measuring gear. And I love it. With the earcandy comes my connection to the music. But to each their own. Everybodies journy is unique.
SE tubes and full range driver listening is limited in itself. It can be dull. There will be a line where too much of a good thing kills it...
@@OCDHIFiGuy It had it's charm but is was limited in the music that sounded great on it. And it was not my kind of music to say the least. My current setup does electronic music really really well and that's what I built it to do. Clean PA power with PA horns and PA woofers. Dinamics to die for!
But what if you pair those with a playback designs Dac and Amp?
I found your assessment and explanation to be very articulate and clear. Appreciate it. Thanks
Well they’re definitely the antithesis of say an Audio Note set-up. Or Mikey’s rig for that matter…Just a different head space and listening philosophy/perspective. That’s all it is.
Absolutely....
Mikey any thoughts on Oswald Mill Audio horn speakers / Amps ?
Alaniss Morissette the singer said recently as a judge on American idol to a contestant that their voice was too polished meaning it was so clean and pure that the audience could not connect to the emotion of the voice. She suggested to dial back the voice to 70% at some points to hear the cracks and edges in the voice so that listeners could emotionally connect to the music. That sounds like what you are referring to as some speakers brands that are too perfect or clean with the sound that you lose the heart and soul of the singers voice and the performance.
I saw that, very true. It’s what makes older recordings so nice.
Alanis Morissette likely thinks a jack hammer's sound is too smooth. Seriously, I have that hit album of hers and the sound quality is tosh. And her singing. My God! I never thought I'd say it but I wish she'd gone to the Leonard Cohen School of Real Good Singing. I have the next one after that and now that my system is better I realized even that one sounds bad. My God what's with Canadian singers.
I don't mean to criticize you. Her voice is a pet peeve of mine. And the fact that she's alive and I know about it. How'd she get famous? Oh well. At least we still have Justin Bieber. Oh wait. He's got half frozen face from the jibby jab. Well, at least we still have Celine Dionne. Oh Wait. She's got full facial frozen face from the jibby jab. How about Nickelback? They have a new album. I've taken out a lone to get that.
Seriously, I think OCD is trying to be nice. Maybe he doesn't feel he has an adequate scientific explanation of why they sound bad so he's trying to say they're too good. They're not too good. They're crap. And there are mountains of science to explain it. Real Hifi Help and Real World Audio explain it in detail. Especially the first one. He owned them himself and explains his evolution or maturation as an audiophile from beginning to end. He has two friends that own Level 5 Audio Note systems that he listens to regularly. He started at the beginning and arrived at the end. He knows and spends hours explaining it.
And these guys claiming they're the best speakers they've ever heard are telling the truth. They have electronics that are they type of electronics you'd need for these speakers and they tried different speakers. I wonder if they ever heard an Ongaku Kensei and M9 Phono Signature? Just as a reference.
@@bunsw2070 To fine tune my reply about Alanis's advice, I was speaking specifically about autotuned over produced sounds, where they tease out the emotion! To tell the contestant to purposely sound worse not good guidance! Alanis's first LP is excellent!
I went the other way, been audiophile for 20 years, started with more relax vantage equipments which slowly went to the more clean and analytical/transparent. I love it as I love listening to the mastering which is more what you listen to on a record/flac vs real life. Like he said it will never sound like real life. I appreciate the effort and art of putting all of this together
Thanks for sharing!
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks for your video!
So what brands do you like?
My only experience with Wilson was an afternoon with my Audio Matiere Majuscule integrated tube amp and the Cub 2. It nearly brought me to tears. I would say the "imperfection" of tubes was a match.
Well, for me, this is the best advert for Wilson and Magico because I want analytical sound, free of any coloration. This is BTW their goal, more so with the Magico.
Spoken like a newbie. Nothing wrong with that. See how long you remain in the analytical sound camp after the years go by. You'll end up with McIntosh and Sonus Faber
@@OCDHIFiGuy I must confess, I wouldn't mind Sonus Faber and McIntosh. They're speakers done right with the warmth and softness in mind that would melt even the harder ones. You're probably right, and i wish you'd be right about me ending up with Sonus Faber!
Question for you Mikey, i don't know if you are a dire Straits fan or not but i completely understand where your coming from about systems that are too resolute however with out finding a good middle ground it can prevent the listener from missing details in the music case in point the Dire Straits song private investigations has 3 non musical effect sounds contained within it footsteps, someone breathing and a breaking glass when i listen to the song on headphones i hear all of these elements but when i listen to the same song on my stereo system i need to crank it up to about 95db to hear any of these effects however i normally only listen between 75-80db other than feeling that i may sometimes be missing out on some musical details i actually do really enjoy the sound of my system and i do connect emotionally with the music so ultimately i would like to put together a system were i would not lose the emotional connection but not miss out on any musical details so my question to you is what types of gear do you recommend to accomplish that goal...PS thanks for all the great content!😀
Call me and I can go over details
Yes, yes. I came to this by comparing to live grand piano in the same room and for me, for example Vinni Rossi tube integrated and Von Schweikert speakers give that liquid, organic with nuance and dynamics by not artificially accented or artificially clean. Well said Mikey!
There it is Joe.... ;-)
„high maintenance type of woman“... mikey, you made my day! 🤣🤣🤣
True though, right ?
I’ll be curious to hear your views on Avalon speakers.
So what brand of speakers do you prefer to listen to yourself, if Magico, Focal or Wilson is not your personal cup of tea? I am very curious to know.
TAD, Fischer&Fischer, Avant Garde, Eggleston Works, Joseph Audio, Karma, Maarten, Borreson.. shall I go on ?
Yes, you can.
TAD is one of those brands I always wanted to listen too but never had the chance too, cause they’re so expensive.
Probably the most expensive Japanese speaker brand is TAD.
Can characterise on how they actually sound Mike, or maybe have them on your channel one day?
Love your pure honesty on this channel, we need more people like you in this snake oil infested audiophile industry!
Thank you Mike!
so what to do to make speaker sound less perfect? distort? horns? slow membranes?
I think both Wilson's and Magico sound best being driven by tube amps and pre amps. Perhaps because they sound less clinical when driven by tube gear. I've heard Wilsons at many levels in person over the past 25 years, and IMO Wilson's need tubes. I had not heard Magico's in person before Axpona 23. In the room where Alon Wolf was the Magico S3 was being driven by tubes. That room did not sound fatiguing after about 30 minutes of listening. I also spent almost an hour in the Magico M2 room being driven by solid state gear. I thought that room sounded great which it did, but when I went from there directly to the Gershman/VAC room I felt tension release from my upper body that I did not realize was there in the Magico M2 room. So I "felt" better listening in the Gershman/VAC room compared to the Magico M2 room even though the M2 room had a more detailed sound. Live music is not that ultra detailed. It's thick and big sounding, but the instruments in the back of the band are not as loud as the instruments in front. This is what I have strived to achieve in my own system for years.
My understanding is you have to own them and listen to them intently for hours everyday to figure them out. OCD is experienced so can make a quick assessment. I still think he's not right on target though. The reason they suck is for 3 reasons. Firstly, they have a ton of drivers that are all different and they each produce different sound signatures (you'll figure them out eventually and hate the speakers when you do). Second is that because there are so many drivers they cover narrow frequency bands and require high order crossovers for them to sharply cutoff the frequencies to each driver. This means the crossover is going to play a more prominent role in the sound and are going to destroy the efficiency of the speakers (Real World Audio has a video showing the true efficiency of one of the large Focals - it's really bad even though the published value claims they're really efficient). Third is that because of the poor efficiency you need powerful amps.
Any company making tube amps that makes a powerful amp (VAC, I'm looking at you) has rocks for brains and is likely deaf. If you want a tube amp (and you do) figure out how you can live with 25 watts max. All you need are speakers that are efficient. You want solid state as far away from your stereo as possible. Anyone who advises otherwise is deaf or has a crap system and doesn't know it. Or you can leave audio all together. Or spend all your money forever trying to get your system to sound satisfying. That last one is what they want. I'm old. I remember all the crap Stereophile was raving about that is now generally considered bad sounding or is totally forgotten. Remember Lamm? Remember Balanced Audio Technology? Remember Sonic Frontiers? Remember Halcro? Halcro were these mega dollar solid state amps that had more feedback then God to achieve previously unheard low levels of harmonic distortion. They loved them. The only problem was they sounded really hard and thin. Just like you'd expect from a solid state amp with as much feedback as could possibly be applied. They likely were excellent sonic paint removers though.
If you have to have solid state just stay modest and live your life. Get married and have a family or something. Do anything but don't go nuts with audio gear. Maybe become a degenerate gambler instead. That makes a lot more sense then chasing the impossible with solid state electronics designed by engineering big brains. The dealers will love you but you'll wish you'd just lost it all in Vegas. Maybe take up Russian Roulette as a pass time. That is even smarter. Or join the Ukraine army and ask to be taken to the front lines. Or take up Fentanyl. Anything but "cutting edge" solid state high end audio (and most of the tube gear is junk as well).
@@bunsw2070 There are a few tube amp companies that make high powered amps (more than 300 watts per channel) other than VAC, and ie Manley, VTL. What do you believe is the problem with high watt tube amps? I will have to admit that I heard a Phasemation tube amp at Axpona that was in the below 20watts per channel that did sound amazing. It was driving speakers that were 92 db sensivity with no problem. The amps were still not cheap, at 30k per pair. BTW I'm old too, lol.
Hey Mike what’s your thoughts on acora vs fisher&fisher
Great video Mike. It is frustrating to encounter people dedicated to ignoring what you say and only hear what they want.
Well said. Absolutely agree. I always say not everything that sounds good is good to you.
you also have fun stuff, like the JBL L100 reissue; great reggae speaker; kudos too-nice video
You are correct Mikey!
I am Using the TAD CE-1 BE edition, combined with a monster Krell FPB-700cx amp, combined with a dCS Paganini and Master Clock etc, and the sound from the dCS makes the sound sounding very fast and correct, but is almost to correct as you saying
Right... sometimes hard to relax....
I can relate to this. Sonic fireworks are distracting bringing the focus more towards the system than the music for the listener. Out of curiosity,how do you feel about Vivid audio and YG?
Ok Wilson Alexx-V factory set up sounds amazing with a triangle art tube preamp and a class A Krell i400 400watt power amp.
Dude it’s soulful!
That’s why Michael Fremer uses DartZeal that’s more musical and soulful on his Wilson’s
Who cares what that ahole does. He gets paid to promotes that overpriced crap
Mikey....what about TAD? Where you would you place them...more in the Wilson/Magico type of sound camp? Or different? If so, in what way? Would love to get your opinion on them...
What do you think of Devore O/96 and Audio Note speakers along with PureAudio Project open baffle speakers?
I like PAP speakers. Don't know about the others..
Heard and had Wilsons and Focals, couldn't disagree with you more. My pairings have been superb and musical. And to go against the grain here, i've moved on from relaxed speakers to ones that are more accurate, and faster.
And to add, i listen more than ever with my Focals. And i never did with past speakers. I've been in this game for over 35 years.
My 1008be Focals are Extremely Musical and I consider them the Best stand speaker for the money ever made.
@@scarabeo500gt It's really matter of taste. I heard the kanta 2 and loved them but then I heard the sf olympica III and thought well not my taste but wished the Kantas were a little bit more like the OLympicas in musicality. So I want something in between.
Mikey, That's a good honest answer on what music should probably sound like. I bet you would like the old Marantz gear!
My biggest regret was selling a J.R. Coherence preamp with new modules from Jeff. To bad we are always looking to improve on something that already sounds great. As far as speakers go try the Block Audio Shelf Blocks which I purchased to keep cost down and very glad I did. Question: have you ever heard the newer tape deck M 002 P from Ballfinger?
A Wilson or Magico with a tube pre-amp and solid state amp is the solution for those speakers. There are even some integrated amps (like the McIntosh MA12000) with a tube pre-amp stage and solid state power output stage. I have noticed that 3 different reviewers at Absolute Sound have an Audio Research pre-amp and solid-state power amp like Boulder as their reference electronic components.
EXACTLY !! Do you think it's just a coincidence that they use ARC ??? Lol. They are given "extended loans" of that gear by the biggest advertisers. Hello !! 👋
@@OCDHIFiGuy There are a lot of companies that give them extended loaner equipment, but I noticed 3 different reviewers at Absolute Sound have ARC pre-amps. Are all of those ARC loans? I doubt it, but even if they are all loans they could use other loaned pre-amps from other companies. Of course, an ARC Reference pre-amp cost is out of the reach of most persons, but there are other tube-preamp an solid-state amp combos that are much more affordable.
Hey man that was a very interesting point of view , or maybe better ...way of listening, thumbs up.
Hi Mr. OCD. What do You think about Daniel Hertz?
Great analogies and description of "HiFi" sounding rigs, that initially grab your attention, but wear thin in the long run, for me at least.
I absolutely agree with all of them. Music must be natural and organic, otherwise its harmony is lost.
For sure..
I absolutely couldn’t agree with you more on this, give me a pair of Spendors from the 70’s and I’m in heaven!
There you go !
Great explanation of where you’re coming from with your general critique!
Thanks Shawn..
Agreed, my priorities have shifted after years of being an audiophile. Towards rich, lush, saturated, "analog", smooth. Of course, I happily accept dynamics, detail and transparency. But at the end of the day, the rich complexity of the tone is what I'm after.
I find nothing wrong with Wilson speakers. Due to the fact that they play super-resolution, I have the possibility with the right electronics to put together a nicely balanced system. With a more restrained speaker, I have to rely more on high-resolution electronics. My Sasha DAW do not tire me with the right electronics even after hours.
I come late to the party but U agree with every word .I was a wilson guy for 25 years .One day I realised that I always listen too the same type of music and that music is being dictate to me by the speakers. I switched to BW801 and realised that they are way more musical .not as accurate not as analytical but it felt right to me .
Mikey I love listening to your reviews, never have I learned so much watching and listening to you. Thank you and keep up the amazing work. We love you man and oh I have a girl who's just like the first example you gave lol😂
Thanks Man, I appreciate the good words..... and uh.... Ride em Cowboy !!
It is relatively simple. Select the equipment you enjoy the most regardless of anybody else's opinion, whether or not the system is truly accurate, or whether it is popular amongst the high end industry reviewers. In fact no one can know what you hear and cant tell you that the system you like best isnt the most accurate. It may not be to them but certainly can be for you.
Selecting the equipment you enjoy takes 20 years of buying and selling, losing money each time. This channel is for those who want to trust me to do that for them and back it up with a 100% money back guarantee and an 80% value buyback policy. Otherwise, yeah, screw anybodys opinion and trial and error this crap for the next 10 to 20 years..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I appreciate what you do but must disagree for at least me that you need to spend 20 years evaluating by trial and error for a system you enjoy and lose money. From the beginning I chose the equipment I enjoyed the most independent of any reviews or any concerns about accuracy. As time went on I didnt sell and buy new equipment because they were on trial and I made an error, it was because I was now in a position to afford better equipment. I enjoyed every system I had with no regrets and even though I couldnt sell the equipment for what I paid for it I did not lose money. The difference between buy and sell is simply the cost of enjoying the equipment while I owned it. What I did find along the way is that no one system could reproduce all forms of music to best of my liking resulting in my current systems which are MBL 101, MG20.7, and Meyer Sound line arrays. I am sure you can determine which kinds of music play best on each to my ear.
Great analysis, Mike. Just reminded me of when I had dinner some 30 years ago with a friend in San Francisco. He was dating Catherine Deneuve who I thought was one of the most beautiful women in the world. I'll save the details for a less public forum, but your take on Wilson/Magico/MSB reminded me of his thoughts on Catherine. I was still somewhat envious, but it was an experience I could easily live without.
Hi Mikey,
What's your take on Lamm amplifiers?
Can you show us your rig at the minute please
So true with Magico everytime I hear them they sound so unnatural and grating...I suppose with the right system matcing they could be different but maybe its better to get something natural sounding to start?!
Yes that's makes sense ❤ this is why i still have problems choosing between kef, harbeth and amazing active studio monitors 😅😊
Thanks for sharing!
Love your videos your so honest about everything if I could afford it I would definitely have you build me a rig from ground up thanks mike
Your back 😊
how much resolution is enough?
I completely disagree. You are condemning the speakers and amp for the problems with the MSB or dCS DAC. They just play, perfectly, what the DAC sends them. With Playback Designs MPT8/MPD8, they play awesome. So take your Playback to Jay's and try again. The XVXs will be amazing.
Interesting point Chuck... It stands to reason actually... Why the F do people always combine Wilson with DCS or MSB ??
@@OCDHIFiGuy I think they like to say they have them,... yeah I have DCS or MSB beat that. While not realizing it maybe too much when combined with Wilson, Magico's.
@@OCDHIFiGuy The worst systems I have heard were DCS, Wilson, D'Agostino and Transparent Audio. Completely sterile. The dealers love this pairing, probably some financial arrangement.
From the heart Mike, appreciate your view much!
I’ll get your points, but for most people they need some help. I wanted to say this, but you already noticed yourself. :)
This is everyone’s journey. Crazy neutral transparent etc to finally smoother more musical sound. Literally every persons journey. Some just travel the journey slower than others.. cough Jay cough 😂
Could be, and nothing wrong with the journey, right ? We are all eventually after the same thing...
It's the typical control theory before reaching steady state compared to what a person's ultimate desire is. You don't know what you don't like until you overshoot your target and have to reverse course a bit to get there. Most gears when we are start out are low in resolution and dynamics, so there's a general trend to reach for more of both, eventually you'll overshoot on those aspects to realize it could be too much of a good thing and then back off. Each of us though have different targets, so too warm for one is perfect for another, but the trajectory to reach that target is similar.
Mikey, I started watching your channel when you were obsessed with taking your Maggies as far as they could go, and it was quite a trip. Whether I've simply missed some of your content or whatever, I've yet to hear your opinion of the Martin Logan hybrid 'stats, especially the more expensive models. The practical part of me says 'what use is a speaker that demands the listener sit in exactly the right spot, and feed it gobs of power, in 2023 ?' but audiophiles are nothing if not masochists. Visually, they definitely fit into your 'Type A' audiophile category - function over bragging rights - but I'd be interested in your thoughts. Thanks in advance. Edit : forgot to add that they also reportedly treat poor mixes with contempt - looks like I can kiss my Halsey collection goodbye ;)
Hi Arthur,
I never liked Electrostatic technology for myself. The idea of AC power and big power supplies in my speaker kills it for me. I don't like the IDEA before I even listen. Then when I listen, they have killer mids but lack on highs and deep lows for me. I guess ML adds a dynamic woofer but it's just not my cup of tea.. I think the big ones are supposed to be great and they look cool, but not my Jam.
Mikey, what do you think about monitor audio Platnum?
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge on the subject. I agree very much with what you said. In general, I don't like a speaker that comes in parts and you have to start assembling and doing a million tweeks. I prefer the traditional and simple construction. A speaker made of a quality wooden box with several drivers. Connect and enjoy the sound
I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! The Wilson and Magico sound is so unnaturally clean, I feel like putting on my goggles and bunny suit and going into the silicon chip room where no dust. Zero dust. I WANT DUST!! The dust is where my ears live. Back in the day starting out, I was attracted to ESS speakers because they had a super clean top end with the new AMT tweeter. Now, I couldn’t stay in the room with them.. Keep on keeping on Mikey. Love your channel, and your content.
Thanks Brother Bunny !!
I agree, in my past I had well to do friends with amazing systems - lyngdorf -oracle - no dacs ( I'm old) the systems were absolutely amazing but I like a tiny bit of warmth and what I call power - I don't mean watts .. I know the biz when I hear it - searing crystal diamond precision is sexy but its not me either .
Hey Mikey,
From a 10 year customer, where do the AGD Audions and Tempo Di Gans fit into the hierarchy of musical sounding versus clinical amps?
What makes a recording connect favorably w/ a listener can vary immensely and every system throws a different lens on any recording you put on. There are rock recordings that to most ears will sound better in my truck than they do on the $120k system in my listening room. Generalizations about Wilson, Harbeth, Rowland, Burmester, Magnepan etc. are easy to come by and often don't hold up in specific playback environments. A staggeringly vast number of variables are in play when we listen to music. Fussing over many of these variables is usually putting the cart before the horse since most guys who are into high end audio have have pretty weak music collections (or a very limited knowledge of where the bus goes when it comes to music). Someone who has a well put together $7k system and is ravenously seeking out (new and old) music is light years ahead of most audiophiles. If more energy goes into hi fi than goes into checking out music, the weakest link in the component chain is usually gonna be between the ears of the listener.
Agreed 👍
Film mode is actually about getting the best performance out of your tv in the dark where it can get the best darks vs the boundaries it has to push to get brightness in lighted areas
I totally understand what you're saying. Sometimes you start inching down that "more detail" path without realizing you're doing it. Before you know it, you've gone too far and what you end up with are a bunch of individual sounds, not music.
Kind of why I still have my Panasonic plasma tv
Yep, you nailed it...
Hi !!! It is like the land speed record. At a certain point, the car goes so fast that the wheels are barely touching the ground. We like the speed, but if we cannot feel the road anymore, then what's the point? Connecting to the music on an emotionnal level is more important than hearing every last iota of information. Thanks for reminding us of that truth !!!
Preaching it to the people. Amen 😊
You’re on a roll man, well said!! 👍👍
P.S. 100% correct it was appealing at first to be wowed by the laser sharp analytical speakers/systems , but after 30 plus years my system has to move me and I connect with it and that’s exactly what my system does now.
Forget about the hi-fi. Can you do another dancing video?
ROFL... Now THERES a FAN !!
I've heard these 3 brands and agree with you! But haven't heard way up as you just Sasha, A5, Sopra 2!
Ill keep trying !!
How can you seroiusly put MSB and DCS in the same camp ... ?
Because they are both analytical and soul less to me..
Sometimes expensive hi-fi gear can be like listening to the architect from the matrix, very accurate descriptions but a little souless, as opposed to a charismatic speaker explaining the same story, not quite as informative but really enjoyable as some non-standard phrases or voice inflections were used, making you laugh or cry along the way.
Whoop ! there it is ....
Your take on all things HI-FI saves your subs thousands of listening hours evaluating gear and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Appreciate the effort!
I am not only a DIY-speaker maker, but I am also a musician, and I put my whole being in the pieces I am playing. Do I want to have it reproduced where people can not hear and appreciate my efforts to make it sound as good as possible?
It is like to have a house at the most beautiful place but actually want to have dirty windows.
It is like to wanna have a dirty mirror so you can not see how you actually look.
Music matter, and to honor the musicians, we as audiophiles should aim for the best sound possible.
Agreed 👍
I Hear you perfectly ,
And in special after a certain experience and age , I do not care about perfection ,
I must engage with the music played by a system on a emotional level ,
The rest I do not care anymore .
I have owned many speakers over 40 years with my system. I don’t get into looks as much as sound. I prefer real sound that sounds like my instruments and close my eyes and feel I am in the room recorded sitting close to stage. I switched back to Tube amp from SS after a year with SS & tube preamp. My system is now to me lots more musical and flowing as live in room. Just Enjoy the Music not the gear as much! Blessings my Audio friend. Larry
Thanks Larry, Blessings to you as well, Brother.... ;-)
Which tube amp handles hard rock well?
Groups like RUSH, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Scorpions, and Queensryche?
Thanks for your response.
Are tone controls taboo, or is it a way to have your cake and eat it too?
Taboo..
First - whazzup! Great video! Cheers - Luther
WHAZAAAAA ?? Cheers Luther !!
I experience the same kind of confusion distraction when listening to most speakers. I've become aware that loudspeakers I prefer make me move not able to stop or even cry due to there ability to bring out the artists human emotions very naturally. Also when my attention is kept on the music and my mind doesn't wonder I know the speakers are doing good job.
Absolutely 💯!
Rossini Apex with clock will be my next upgrade. Dacs are very difficult. What you get under $30k is embarrassing.
I'll embarrass any DCS with my DAC that's under $30K... PLAYBACK DESIGNS. Founded by the guy that invented sample rate conversion for music. Same guy that developed SACD for Sony... his design team is better than DCS in my opinion... ring DAC is tired...
It's a matter of preference ..i am reverse than you .. Agree with your point of view .
Maybe one advantage of an analytical mindset is if you don't have time to listen for hours. I don't know. I have been trying to find a point of diminishing returns and get to a stopping point. Curiosity about what the high end sounds like isn't helping. My Sansui 2000 into some JBL Studio 590's is pretty nice. It would be best if I could just stay there, (purchase wise) for a while :)
Seems to resolve detail well.
I am sure to many here, I am speaking of cheap-skate blasphemy :)
I think that's an excuse for fatigue. Who wants time anxiety associated to thier music listening ? Not me. If you are happy with what you've got, then forget it. Just enjoy music!!
@@OCDHIFiGuy My problem is of a perpetual tinkerer. Just my mode of enjoyment for now.
"Dealer/HiFi Sound" is what I call a Reference System w/ultimate detail delivery. Spks can be tamed w/tubes & 'warm' sources for balanced/enjoyable SQ.
So band aid poorly matched components ? Yes, typical dealer technique.
My thing was always about getting as close as possible to a realistic sound - in that regard magico is amazing.
I do not share your experience... it's always sounded like perfectly sterile HiFi..
You got it Man, it's the difference between the well renowned and the really good 😉. More importantly, my rule of thumb is if I can hear the sound of the instrument over how it's being played, then it's not working for me. That's what I define as a 'Hi Fi Sound' no matter how good it sounds, the musicians play 2nd fiddle to the sound. But if I honest it what most people like when they listen on a superficial basis. 🤔
I'm a musician and you're 100% spot on re: what high end hifi listeners are trying to recreate...generally, live shows aren't even CLOSE to what high end peeps are trying to recreate. Playing to an audience means you are trying to generate pleasing sound to MANY people..not one person sitting in a 'sweet spot'. I don't care if it's rock or a symphony. The high end audio 'perfect sound' is based on syphoning down a live performance for ALL to a singular performance for ONE.
I am at lower tier of hifi, my rig is about 5k all together but I am experiencing very simmilar think here, I purchased kef ls50s metas and hooked them to electrocompaniet eci 80d, In relative terms this is highly resolving system, not fatiguing etc at all but I can clearly remember how I was driven by music listening to triangle borea br2 conected to naim xs2, it was kind of fun and I was enjoing the music. This does not happen here.
For the enjoyment of music and imaging for over 20 years, the Gradient Revolution Loudspeaker VER I. And still under $10,000 for VER 5.