RMAF16: How to Read Between the Lines in High-end Audio Advertising
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- Moderator: Brent Butterworth, brentbutterworth.com
Panelists: Chris Connaker, Computer Audiophile; Michael Fremer, analogplanet.com; Jeff Merkel, Merkel Acoustic Research & Design
This seminar will parse the words and images used in high-end audio ads and websites to help audiophiles figure out what information is reliable and important ... and what can safely be ignored. Panelists will also explain when and how to go beyond the advertising to gather the buying information needed to make informed and satisfying purchases.
Mike and Chris, nice to see both of you seated side-by-side and helping the industry together👍😄
Best Regards,
ian
NAD Electronics and PSB Speakers are both very conservative in the technical specs, but they really give you incredible products and some real value for your money.
"Our credibility is all we have",,, Enorme Mr. Fremer.
I've noticed in Bass Player magazine that when they do a cover story about an artist, they almost always begin an ad campaign with that artist doing some regular advertiser product indorsements.
Yeah, the music industry is guilty of doing ad campaigns of the musician's list of mfg. they endorse along side cover stories on a specific musician. But that's different than giving a certain product a favorable review and the company advertises in the same magazine.
Also, one has to determine if the article is an actual product review or just an article that's more of a press release of a new product.
One thing I see an obvious problem is these magazine's knowledge and reviews of acoustic treatment. First off, they don't do that many reviews on room treatment, and the reviews they have done are just ridiculous and not worth taking seriously. They give favorable reviews to products that are total bullshit products that aren't really going to address the problems in room and the products they have reviewed are advertised in their magazines. Yet other products that aren't advertised, they don't seem to be interested in writing a review of products that aren't advertised in their publications.
They also don't understand the difference between a product that's going to change the sound of a room vs treating an acoustics problem with the right product(s). All forms of acoustic treatment is going to change the sound of the room, but room treatment is a totally different type of product.
Room treatment is used to treat an acoustical problem with the room. When one conducts proper measurements, the results are going to help figure out what type of room treatment is going to FIX the problems in the room. It's completely opposite of how these reviewers review room treatment. They just stick the product in the room and review what they claim they hear, but they don't check to see if the product makes a measurable improvement or fixes a measured problem in the room.
QUAD said it all 50 years ago: "The Closest Approach To The Original Sound".
Without advertising dollars Absolute Sound, Stereophile, HiFi News, HiFi+, HiFi Choice would not exist. So these mags must cater to their ad purchasers. Three in the past that did not were The Audio Critic (Peter Aczel), International Audio Review (Peter Moncrieff) and Sound Practices (Joe Roberts). I certainly trust them way more than the mainstream (when have the mainstream mags ever published a negative review?).
I second that... And what hifi.. Ffs... I remember when I took that mag seriously.... (a long, long time ago!) it's been a comic book for over 25 years
Sony/Phillips "Perfect Sound Forever". Don't ask me to hold my breathe!
29:00 Several years ago Fremer called the Boulder phono preamp "the best ever."
I used to have the exact same Beatles Revolver tie that Michael is wearing. I don't know which of us should be most embarrassed!! ;0)
I always wondered how these writers could afford these several hundred thousand dollar systems in their homes. I'm not talking about review equipment. Are the manufacturers giving them free or hugely discounted prices on the equipment they are reviewing? I don't think we are hearing the whole story hear on the reviewers and the equipment companies!
Yes isn't it strange indeed that Mike f has a caliburn.... Is it 250g?
Wilson cronos.
It's all bollocks, these guys get massive discounts
it is stated here that mics don't record freqs over 29k yet a quick look at the manleys shows a spec of 30k, no -db figure. i am surprised that mikey didn't pipe up in defense of that claim.
Why should he? I've had the "pleasure" of meeting Jeff. He's a gasbag and he will never stray outside from his own gospel. Not even Fremer would touch that one, and he is not one to shy away from an argument.
For high end audio guru's they didn't get very good sound now, did they?
You know how HI-FI should review their products like the Vaping community does here on TH-cam. Check it out and you will start to see many different reviewing/advertising styles that fit the variety of customers. Most the reviews in the vaping community review the product on how well it functions for what type of people that it was made for. The specs of the product would show why this product is good for the type of customer they made for. Problem with HI-FI reviewing and advertising is they don't really consider what type of customers their products would be good for. For example, what manufacture makes great audio system for a heavy metal music lover, jazz, or classical? What manufactures concentrate on just making great for surround sound audio or stereo audio? If you look at a lot of Hi-Fi you tend to see that their products are great for all the different formats and styles of music. Which as a customer is frustrating.
When they quote "reviewers" in ads, the reviewers are in advertising.
Of course, and they have never said they were not.
Wow, the producer videotaped a seminar on audio and didn’t bother to record the audio from the microphones.
Power is something you can add. A small amp kan be suporting another amp, and put many speakers on. Be carefull of very loud sound. And your energy note. Don’t cut power by powerconditioners, because power must flow freely into your audio equipment. Filters are bad. ...that is my opinion about audio.
Ok, i work with NAD equipment and they made it happen to copple amps to eachother.
At an audioshow i was a witness of the mistake audiobrands make. Producing digital amps. Digital is restricted to only a cd player and computers.
A video about audio with probably the worst audio ever. Interesting.
You just need one of those PR experts to tell you you're hearing the greatest audio they've ever heard and talk about "nuance" and all those other "industry terms"....
I love HiFi, into the hobby, but the audio of this video is shit! Were the mics just props?
Fremer doesn't usually *need* a mic - I guess they just assumed that the others would be equally willing to shout at people ;)
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous criticism of a seminar video at a high end audio show.
These shows and seminars take place in the conference rooms at large hotels, where the seminars use the equipment provided by the hotel.
And even if the seminars provided their own equipment, who cares? They are giving a seminar, not demonstrating their high end audio equipment.
@pandstar, agreed, but we ARE talking about a criticism from the same people who make assumptions based on heavily compressed 'sound demos' of various gear played back on a pair of headphones plugged into the jack on their laptop : were you expecting anything else ?? Nothing quite like buying something, getting it back to your house only to find that it doesnt sound the same as it did on a YT vid :)
Surely high end, is just a relative label. John has a perfectly decent all in one Pioneer audio system he payed £500 for. He thinks his neighbours £2500 component system is high end, but is quietly pleased that actually his £500 system sounds almost as good as his neighbours £2500 system. Alex, on the other hand, John’s neighbours boss has invested almost £20000 in his system. He does not consider the £500 or £2500 systems as viable audiophile equipment. Who is right? My response, who cares? As long as you are happy with your sound, who else should worry about it’s cost, audiophile status, whether it’s hand built or mass manufactured, or it’s country of origin. Get rid of the snobbery and elitism in hifi, and you open it up to a much wider audience!
Luckily I've seen this early on , I've only been into hifi for a year and what I'm seeing is it doesn't matter what you have people will make you think you need the next best thing,
Thank you guys for theese talks
I would like to get into This world of positive and negitave world of sound, marketing and music
There are no "negative worlds" of sound or music. Besides marketing being used to sell them in a negative way.
Of course you've never been "pressured" to review anything. You get PAID to review things. Does ANYBODY "pressure" their "boss" to pay them to do their job?
That's not how it works. There are plenty of companies that will pressure reviewers by threatening to remove sponsorsnips or ads. The lifeblood of any such magazine is the advertisement.
Just found the video of "the fight!" Funny stuff right there.
So why didn't you post a link?
Naked women fondling audio gear would be an improvement!
Do what I did. Find a girl who can play an instrument and likes high end audio equipment.
Thought I saw these same chaps over on the stoolie podcast. Motorized bar stools. Making the rounds I guess?
interesting debate. Ironically the audio quality on this video is absolutely terrible!
echo echo thump thump bang pop, real pros, just not at audio, maybe at the con?
The audio is so bad you can only make out every other work.
Audio advertising is just a step above pornography (but not as exciting!).
That Klipsch and Bose joke was 10/10 O _O haha
Disclaimer: I too own QUAD equipment.
And?
I used to as well, but they are now owned by AIG, and I'm not as comfortable with the Quad brand name used on stuff produced in China. (or any other brand that sold their souls)
I was there!
Did you stay for the duration? What a big yawn.zzzzzzzzzzzz
ECHO THUMP BANG...audio "experts" funny stuff.
computer and audiophile; two words that shouldn't be in the same sentence
I soooo smiled when he said that... F'ing computers need to be set on fire.
Advertisers are the bottom feeders of the modern era. Only one technical guy in the whole group and he's more of a sound engineer not an EE. Pathetic!!!
Brent's introduction confirmed the impression I always had of his reviews, which is to say I paid no attention. He's probably a great guy but I've no interest in his "reviews". No disrespect intended. I feel that way about many (most?) in the industry. Maybe I've been a high end dealer and enthusiast for too many decades...
the usual suspects
Expensive wigs.
Look closely. It is real.