Noticeably significant speaker improvement is a combination of a LOT of different individual relatively minor or "subtle" improvements, which then combine all together into a MAJORLY noticeable improvement overall, from the way the overall speaker sounded before doing ANY improvements on it at all. Everything Danny is saying here, I totally agree with because I've experienced these exact same things in my own speaker modifications over the decades... And I've improved literally hundreds of speakers already, at least as a hobby... I don't have a business, but I love to experiment with speakers anyway.
I think Jay is being honest and objective. I have built a bunch of GR's speakers, including 2 pairs of NX-Treme's. The lack of bottom end is not simply a filter situation. I ran my NX-Treme's for over a year without a filter and that was always the most disappointing aspect of the speakers. So many woofers, yet very little bass. I even have 2 pairs of triple OB subs and STILL not enough bass. I had to add 2 rythmik sealed subs to get any punch. That said, the OB bass did open my eyes to how smeared bass is with most speaker designs. That punch comes at a cost. The bass, while not as pronounced as I would like, is extremely fast and detailed. After owning this system for a few years the bass in other systems usually bothers me for it's lack of speed and detail. The mids and highs on the NX-Treme's are among the best I've ever heard. For the most part, I agree with what Danny has said in this video (other than the bass). I do think there is a huge difference between speaker design and a speaker review. Everyone who is paying attention knows that Amir at ASR is a joke. However, I do still think there is still a little something to the criticism about not listening to 2 speakers with these design upgrades. You made some specific mentions of a few speakers where the speakers had obvious problems - phase issues, resonances, etc. For those issues I would agree that a single speaker is enough. However, for other, more subtle issues I feel like an actual listening session with 2 speakers could make a big difference. In the same way that you might try several different amps in a system, or even speaker or power cables - the same should be true of crossover parts. You might know that a sonicap is going to be cleaner than a cheap cap that is put into the speaker from the factory - but how do you know that particular brand of cap is really the best choice for that speaker? To do this however, a customer would have to ship 2 speakers and it would involve a lot of listening tests and iterative changes. It's just not really feasible - it would be too expensive. I think you are able to make positive changes, but just not necessarily getting the *best* you could out of a speaker without doing actual listening. Is that fair?
Subsonic what you have described is just the way OB speakers are. They will never imo be the same as a box speaker for obvious reasons. OB does have bass but it's not percussive / impactful bass. Subs are really the only option and you don't want them to play up to high? It wouldn't be feasible for Danny to listen to every set of speakers, so he's just making an educated decision what would be best?
Amir does not 'review' speakers. He give a short subjective view of what the speaker sounds like tonally, which is better with 1 speaker. Tonality flaws, mismatched drivers will show itself more easily with 1 speaker. He doesnt review anything, you dont hear terms like 'musicality' 'speed' 'dimensionality' in his subjective portion. How potentially big the soundstage will be on a speaker can be all seen in the data, it really depends on how you translate it to your advantage. Its sure way better than some random guy telling you "man, the soundstage on these speakers are crazy" for you to bring it to your room to find it meh.
Thank you for your comments, first of all. As for your question...."but how do you know that particular brand of cap is really the best choice for that speaker? To do this however, a customer would have to ship 2 speakers and it would involve a lot of listening tests and iterative changes. It's just not really feasible - it would be too expensive. I think you are able to make positive changes, but just not necessarily getting the best you could out of a speaker without doing actual listening. Is that fair?" The answer is simply, experience. Having done this for years I know what types of components work well or match well with certain drivers. Keep in mind, I am fixing problems, making improvements, and trying to do so with as low of a cost as possible. Building out a pair of something, burning them in, listening for weeks and making any further tweaks would make those upgrade real expensive.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's in effect what I was trying to say. What I was hopefully articulating was that you are able to get 80-90% of the best out of a speaker by only getting one speaker - all of it better than the way it was. To get that last 10-20% you would really need to spend a huge amount of time really listening with a bunch of different components - all burned in. It would take far too much time to be financially feasible, and the way you do it gets you a big improvement at the lowest cost.
Okay. so companies are spending so much time and effort using anechoic chambers etc. why are they measuring so badly and ringing based on your tests? I mean they go through all that time, money and effort and then use inferior parts which compromises the sound. So either Danny's tests are obsolete, or maybe big name companies are not as professional as we think they are. Based on Danny's tests, quality parts and listener feedback, including Amir's positive review on a GR speaker upgrade, I have to start thinking that "some" these big name manufacturers are cutting corners to make more profit. I think it's good that Jay was honest, but now I would like him to send you a pair of his new CSS speakers for review and we can see how Danny can improve them :)
Corporate method: engineering designs it then the consumer product is nothing like the design. It’s the marketing department’s responsibility to cut costs.
@@pedrodepacas4335 On the one hand I understand this and gear needs to be affordable, on the other hand don't charge people exorbitant prices and try to make ridiculous profit margins. Greed, greed and greed is the answer.
I really am not sure why Danny is wasting his time on an amateur petty guy like Jay. Now that he is looking to cash in with CSS audio, Danny is his primary competitor. It is not hard to nail down the motives of that guy's videosm
That was a really low answer. Danny has his niche and Jay his. Colleague and competitor, in a civil manner. How would gain on being a a-hole? Drama for the audience? Dog fight?
@@wa2368 I don't want either CSS or gr-research to do badly. That is no good for anybody. They can Inspire each other to both improve products and reduce prices, or not. But if only one of them were to exist, there ain't no way that's going to happen, and consumers will be the losers.
Many of Jay's videos make it sound as though he's out of his depth. If you're listening and giving your opinion... that's one thing. But trying to sound as though you know what you're talking about, and it seems obvious that you don't... that's a different thing.
Jay could have approached this more professionally. I watched his video. Gotcha journalism. You guys are now supposed friends so he could have asked you for a follow up discussion, instead of taking your video clip out of context.
Yet Again Jay seems to think he knows everything when he clearly does not. Nothing but a glorified TH-camr who is still wet behind the ears. It seems to be a trait of the younger generation these days. Thinking they know everything when they dont.
From my amateurish and limited, speaker and crossover design experience, when I watch Jay's video, I understood that Jay was out of his skill set. What Jay does and what Danny does are intrinsically, quite different. Sure there is overlap but Jay was taking his commentary too far into the design realm where he lacks capability. (And it showed.)
Hey Danny! Thank you for the response and clarification. I love the fact that you actually take criticisms and turn it into a learning experience because that's not something everyone can do so Kudos to you once again. Few clarifications from my video: 1. You mentioned splicing in the frequency response which is what I said in my video and I think there was a bit of misunderstanding there, I said "that's fair" which means I don't have problems with the way you do your measurements. I was just reporting the "Why" you do the measurements the way you do (which you explain here again) So no problems there. 2. of course you don't measure 2 speakers when doing design work, Absolutely. But you certainly listen to a stereo pair when doing design work as you do with your kits all the time *but not with your upgrade kits* (which is true and is what I reported) I never made that criticism that you don't measure 2 speakers, it was more in reference to how you *don't really listen to your upgrade kits* to get all the intangible things down perfectly with heavy listening test *that you do on your own DIY Kits.* Which again, as I said, "only rightfully so because your products comes first." 9:35 somewhat explains that you don't need to do the same listening tests because it is repeatable and you've done it multiple times before. Makes sense, got it. That was the main issue I had but now I have an answer. Honestly speaking, I don't I resonate with the "repeatability" part as much from my experience, as the crossover parts also seemed to sound different in interaction with different drivers used. Kind of like how you know the sound of X amplifier but then it doesn't sound good with every speaker. You obviously know the drivers you use in your kits very well and know it interacts well with the parts you use but I'm not sure if that is a "repeatable" phenomenon with other brand speakers with different drivers like a "one fit all solution" 3. I'm with you on solving "actual" problems. 4. 20:00 Mark - Holly crap that explains so much. I was not told this and I don't know your pre-amp so no wonder! 23:22 Cmon Danny! Why else would I keep asking to hear it without the subs ! haha
Okay 1, 3 and 4 we're good. #2. This is where experience comes in. I not only know from experience what effect certain parts are going to have, but I have to know how those effects are going to match with different drivers. A lot of things have no adverse effect. For instance going from an iron core inductor to an air core inductor. The the audible differences are the same regardless of the woofer. The same is true for things in the signal path like binding posts, steal nuts, wire, and connectors. There are however, instances where different capacitors work better with certain tweeters. For instance I wouldn't use an Aluminum foil cap on a Focal tweeter. I have to make sure that I know that the parts I am using in an upgrade will match well with the drivers being used. Experience, experience.... Also, if a built out a a pair of every speaker I design an upgrade for, burn them in, listen to them for weeks, and try to tweak every last bit of perfection out of them then that would be a really expensive upgrade. Most of the stuff I have to design new crossovers for already had issues. Some of them have massive issues. So just solving those problems and upgrading the parts quality to the level of the drivers is a significant upgrade, and if I can do it proficiently then it can be an inexpensive upgrade for the customer.
@@dannyrichie9743 All I have to say to that is R.E.S.P.E.C.T it is funny though because my only criticism to you in that video was that you don't listen to your upgrade kits like you do with your own products but funny enough aren't we on the same point of view on that one? *That you gotta always listen* That is what I think we agreed and saw eye to eye. *Now I realize you are saying that you have done this for such a long time that you have it all down like muscle memory... I believe you and that is very very respectable.* I also have no problem with you spending less time on your upgrade kits VS you own products, that's understandable as I've stated in my video.
I'm not sure why this video has so many negative comments especially towards Jay. The videos Jay made while at GR Research were positive along with making a few valid points. The response video by Dannie also clears a lot of this up. Both of you guys are awesome and thank you guys for sharing your passions with the rest of us audio whackadoos
@@JayiyagiThat guy is not in the business of micromanaging every cheap speaker sent into him. I still don’t think you get what he is saying. He’s taking a potato and turning it into a baked potato with cream cheese and chives. He’s not trying to turn the potato into a porterhouse with a side of asparagus for $12 L O L
I was totally blown away by the improvements in the RP600M with the kit and what really blew me away was the sound staging and especially the depth of the sound stage and the improved presence in the mid-range and the detail up in the highest. It was a lot of fun to do. Made a big difference. Didn't cost a ton of money. Totally a win-win-win. I would love to see Jay experience what I did by sending in a cheap speaker doing the upgrade and then making the comparison. I understand the points being made about maybe criticizing the process, but unless you are able to go through the process and hear the differences yourself, then you are really just making assumptions. The other thing is that doing these upgrades is a load of fun and it's really had me go off on my own on working on some other speakers and building amplifiers and that's really what I think Danny is all about with this endeavor.
Are there really industry standards? There seem to be some sets of measurements that many use (both manufacturers and reviewers) and some are very similar but not entirely identical. To be able to replicate measurements the exact measurement criteria needs to be duplicated and almost cloned to be able to determine the accuracy of the original set of published data. You could be very close but close is only good for horseshoes and hand grenades. So that’s an issue. If I take a set of measurements from Person X they might use a set of measuring protocols and you can compare all the measurements of Speakers A, B, C….. because they were done using the same measurement protocols. However if Person Z measures those same speakers there will likely have discrepancies between the protocols of the two different individuals performing the test. So it’s possible Person X and Person Z may have recorded or experienced different results, responses and reactions. All the best speakers use excellent drivers, well designed crossovers with quality parts and well built cabinets properly built and assembled with good manufacturing practices. In this forum by Danny at GR-Research we are able to see what happens when the market causes manufacturers to cut corners and the consumer is not getting what they assume they are buying. So Danny shows what happens when those products come into his shop. The consumer benefits because the curtain is pulled away and consumers and owners can see what their money bought and why they aren’t satisfied with their products. Thanks Danny.
Now that is the professional, patient, mature way to reply to concerns of reviewers/customers! Thanks, Danny, you are a treasure of the dyi audio industry
Considering what seems to have transpired here, I think Danny’s response is incredibly restrained, and even compassionate. He could have been a lot harsher, and yet he couched everything in friendly terms, and explained the facts simply and calmly. Jay, I love you man, but not a fan of how all this went down. I hope the whole “designing your own speakers” venture isn’t going to change you too much. 😏
I also thought this. Normally, you’d run things by the person you’re doing a video on, not necessarily for their consent, but just to see if there were any glaring errors or misunderstandings (as there were in this case).
When Jay made reference to one speaker for Danny's upgrades and Amirs one speaker for subjective review I thought does this kid have no common sense. Sorry for the bluntness , but come on man !
in-correct. I made in reference to how Danny criticized Amir for not listening in stereo for his reviews and only relying on measurements and I criticized Danny for not listening in stereo for his design work process and only replying on measurements *for upgrade kits only. I don't want this mixed up with his actual DIY Kits, those he does heavy listening and R&D* Danny responded obviously that he doesn't need to listen to confirm because he has been doing this for a long time and experience has built him a repeatable outcome. In which I replied that I believe him and respect that process and experience he has built.
@@Jayiyagi I understand Danny's point to be, If you know from vast experience that stereo image issues are a direct result of smearing in low grade, sluggish components, there is no need to design an upgrade kit to fix imaging problems, since by improving the parts, that is a given. Therefore, the network can be designed to improve response curve and parts selection only. If the performance and quality of network components is unknown, then I can see how testing one speaker to assess stereo performance is a problem. Congratulations on your Typhons, I watched the whole video from the show, clearly you did a great job. They look really good.
@@Jayiyagi Those are two different scenarios they are not the same. One is a upgrade and the other is a review. When doing a upgrade for a flat frequency response all you need to do is measure the speaker you dont need to listen to it because the objective is making its response flat, this is the reason you only need one speaker to measure for a flat frequency response. Amir is doing a REVIEW. Does he measure in his reviews? Yes but its still a REVIEW nonetheless. When doing a review one needs to have a pair of speakers as the objective in any audio review is to see how a pair of speakers will sound like in stereo. I dont know any audiophile reviewer that only listens to one speaker instead of a pair when doing a review. That right there is a RED FLAG. Its also ironic because you give great praise to the LGK's while Amir trashes them, another red flag.
Everyone who follows Amir’s cult should take that site with a grain of salt. Amir is knows as a cancer to the real audio professionals in the business. Amir and his cult is a complete joke.
Busy day today Danny after Jay sprang that video. the comments Re: other big name manufactourers spending 1000's of hours in R&D and using Anechoic chmbers versus Gated time window was a bit irrelevant considering that despite tose resources and faciliries they still vome out with speakers that dont perform well. I'm still with you. in fact I was todayin my workshop making up some pure copper Crocodile clip / solid core copper wire jumpers to do on hew fly crossover mods. thanls for the inspiration
This is one of the best videos you've ever done. Especially great or the naysayers who say things like, "then why did speaker company X design it that way, if they could have done if your way?". "Are you saying you know better than company X?". Especially helpful were when you stated, that having big phase problem at the crossover, is not a matter of voicing the speaker. It is ALWAYS a problem. Or the problem with stored energy, or unbraced cabinet, or bad off axis response, etc, etc. Those things are bad speaker design., they are not personal preference.
Love how Danny tames all these misconceptions to the audience . I have watched every single video of Danny's from years. I must say, i admire and respect the way he handles situations where people accuse him of doing something wrong. Its very respectable and shows the power of knowledge and knowledge sharing. I wish some day i could work for you, instead of with you. Because there is so much to learn from you, not jst about speakers but also about "perceived perspectives" too. Cheers from India.
Exactly the points i made on jays threads. well done as usual. the pre amp settings was your bad tho. wink. you really laid this out precisely. this myth that speaker designers intended to create big lumpy freq response graphs needed to be killed again.
I can tell you on the recording end , say on the drums, there is usually room mics away from the drum set that adds depth. A speaker smearing a subtle sound like that can ruin the effect the recording engineer was trying to accomplish.
@Danny Richie - You are a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Class Act!!! You and your Team at GR Research have made incredible contributions to our understanding as to how impactful even subtle cabinet, crossover, wiring and equipment alterations can improve our listening experience….and I am pleased to say, I am a beneficiary of the information you have freely and generously shared via your TH-cam channel. Thank you so much!
Jay is just starting out in this industry so I think it's understandable he'll have many misunderstandings in his journey. That's the difference between a youtuber and an engineer with decades of experience
@@michaelj.4187 well if you would prefer to have your speakers designed by a youtuber with no engineering background, then go right ahead.... Maybe the release will cure your abusive attitude.
I appreciated your measured and very well-articulated response to Jays video. I can appreciate Jays preference for a warmer sound: Having said that… I thought several of your speakers were missing that warmth I like (Opinion). I typically don’t use any EQ when I play music, I want it to sound like it is suppose to sound, like your sitting in front of the artist. I know I could buy a sub or a woofer stack and complete the overall sound signature, but at what cost? I would like to thank you for the Brute speaker you recently developed. I purchased a DIY kit and the knockdown cabinets from you and I was amazed at the design of these cabinets, they are very solid, very heavy cabinets. They are capable of producing a warm sound without sacrificing the mids and highs and without any EQ. I am really enjoying these speakers. I think this design emphasizes the points you made about the overall impact of frequency on Amp load. Again Thank you for all the years of learning and I strongly recommend listening to Justin Johnson on the Brutes😊 Keep on Keepin On!
suggesting that you should listen to a pair of speakers (which is exactly what danny said for reviews) for design work does not make me an amateur but I do think Danny knows what he is doing and that he is a professional.
@@Jayiyagi Jay I really think that it's not at all feasible to listen to pairs of speakers sent in. It would take to much time, but you are correct in saying that really would be the best way for sure. It's just an educated decision on Danny's part. Please I do want people to understand that I'm in no way shape or form criticizing you as a person, just your experience level. I'm a subscriber to your channel and I do like the content.
@@davewin1792 Yes agreed and that's why I stated that he spends more time and do actual listening test for his own DIY Kits and rightfully so. I agree that I have much to learn and I will learn till I die because that is what we do but I'm not so sure if you have my resume in hand to judge my experience and education level :) I may not have the decades of cumulative experience like Danny but you may be surprised (or not) where I work haha 😅
thanks GR-Research for the reminder about filtering out sub-bass from bookshelvers, fortunately my Vaf Research SW2's can do that filtering with a high pass out, got an immediate improvement in sound.
Danny! Jay didn’t have any good points! All those things he is babbling in his channel after the visit to your place could have been addressed straight away if he had just opened his mouth and ask when he was there. Like why do you measure only one speaker only or ask why are all the speakers a little short on bass without the subs? When in doubt just ask! Now you have to do a whole video explaining the rationality of why you are doing it and how your the pre amp is set up.
I get the impression its all about views for Jay, after all he is a young youtuber where as Danny has decades of speaker engineering. Jay comes across as very patrionising.
As someone who's spent close to 30 years geeking out on audio - studied audio engineering & electronics, built speakers, etc... and checked out many of the 'audiophile' youtube channels; Danny is the real deal.
I think so, Jay chose some crossover parts and now thinks he’s a master speaker designer. His partnership with CSS for his speakers have been supposedly in the works for a couple years. If those speakers weren’t just released recently I don’t think Jay would have made his video. Something tells me it won’t be his last video on GR Research
Your patience and your teaching abilities are remarkable thank you for your time I've just learned so much just watching your Channel about Acoustics frequency response crossovers networking is what Giver drivers do and how to change things and it's just really opened my eyes up to A Whole New World roof treatments and everything just incredible thank you
Should you always switch to a better terminal or better components on a speaker? No, not if the loudspeaker has too many problems in the frequency, then there is no point in doing so. This is where many people get it wrong
I could be wrong but I suspect that cheap parts are used in speakers because the bean counters get involved and figure out that they can save a buck or two
Terrific video/response Danny, great job keeping it professional. I had hoped Jay had gained some maturity from that silly video he made a while ago but he still has some learning to do. His recent video was a thinly veiled continuation of that same mindset.
suggesting that you should listen to a pair of speakers (which is exactly what danny said for reviews) for design work does not make me immature and as I have said in my video, I am being honest and sharing what I saw and heard. but I agree, I have much to learn and will always learn.
@@Jayiyagi Its your attitude and know it all persona that needs working on. I fully agree with the above post . Get off your high horse would be a good start
I don't agree with Jay. But I think he is trying to be fair. I don't think it's fair (or mature for that matter) to attack him because he raises some questions.
A very informative reply to Jay's video. We are all learning from this. Regarding base, I just assumed that Jay is a bass-head whose house moves with his music! ;-)
Hi Danny, You covered a lot of important topics in this video. At about 16:30 into it, you began addressing the topic of spatial imaging and some of the factors that influence spatial cues. Getting these factors right requires listening to the stereo pair to make the correct adjustments. My son used to play a game of having me guess whether a vintage recording was recorded using a acoustic horn ( e.g. - Edison's "Mary had a little lamb" or the earliest recordings of Rhapsody in blue ( 1920s); or a crystal mic ( 1930s); or electronic mic ( 1940s), etc. There are some differences that are subtle, and some are quite evident. It's amazing how much of what we understand of high fidelity starts at the proper gathering of the signal and ends with speakers properly dispersing them into the listening environment. Thank you for another informative and fun lesson !
Steve Guttenberge has listed the Klipsch RP-600M II as one of his favorite speakers he’s heard in 40 years in a recent video… Danny thinks it needs an up grade … maybe Steve’s room isn’t good or just maybe he doesn’t have good ears ….I find these up grades funny …spead your money folks
@@thomasschafer7268f you are angry on Freight costs, VAT and Toll, then buy in Germany. You only get VAT and little freight costs. I live in Sweden and know what extra costs there are in buy from the US. Sad, but true. So why are you complaining? Buy local and be happy. But if you want the expertise from Danny’s upgrades, then they cost. Nothing is free anymore. Do remember that the US market are bigger then the European market. Americans really like US made products, in spite higher price, when it comes to quality. China will be there one day, same as Japan and Taiwan was.
Jay put his name on a speaker that intentionally colors the frequency response…so he is going to take issue with someone that fixes frequency response “errors” that he considers voicing. Also he doesn’t sell an open baffle speaker so he’s going to be hesitant to gush over open baffle.
Plus, Zero Fidelity has already stated in his review that CSS offers a modification to the tweeter response, in order to tame a “spiked” upper treble. If I’m going to spend that kind of money on a pair of speakers, I shouldn’t have to send them back to manufacturer for anything. Just saying.
@@ChicagoRob2 it is fine the way it is but CSS is offering "flexibility" because we all know everyone has different tastes and particularly high frequency tolerance. If you knock down on CSS for offering flexibility and extra free services to make sure you are satisfied... welp... not sure what to say there
what...CSS Typhons have nothing to do with this. Go watch me praise open baffle speakers including Danny's and the many neutral speakers... I also didn't take issue with Danny's approach in "flattening the response" that's his way of doing things and that's that...
Danny you are a master of audio and your explanation of things is fantastic. They way you explain testing methods really indicates how people like amir just don’t quite understand the full picture.
That difference between capacitors... Did you ever try to come up with a measurement method to show a difference in impulse reproduction? Would be really interesting if you could show that smearing due to stored energy on a scope.
Love both your and Jay's perspectives. The fact that you treat each other's opinions and observations with respect and an open ear (and mind ) is something other reviewers should make note of and aspire to.
I don't have any preexisting bias towards or against GR-research - in my opinion this was a great response to Jay's video. No excuses, blaming, insults, just wholesome clarification towards misconceptions/misunderstandings, which happen!
You measure one speaker... you listen to two speakers. That's my rule. The only exception is when you are graphing DSP correction in room, then you use two speakers.
Danny great video response. Love all the upgrade kits you sell. Gives alot of options to people who already own those speakers and dont wanna sell them to upgrade.
Good explanations. Although, personally, I believe that you've done a good job explaining all that stuff in the individual videos. I've learned a ton of information here.
Jay is doing his utmost best in building his channel and sound reproduction knowledge. Kudos to him. Like so many of us have done, Jay is now experiencing the early stages of the Dunning-Kruger effect. That is absolutely normal considering where he is at in his journey. But as some of his videos show, it’s also something important to be aware of - learn about this and keep it in the back of the mind throughout the journey.
Completely Agree ! I also Filter out the super low frequencies from my equipment also. I don’t trust peoples opinions that look for low frequency instant gratification.
While I watch both, my ears are old and been through a lot. Speakers would probably sound different to me than either evaluators. I used to build audio equipment and GR provides me with a great deal of technical information which is more useful for decision making. Opinions listening will vary greatly. I appreciate the technical education GR provides and can more easily use this information to choose equipment specific for me. I'll take education over opinion every chance I get. Thanks for taking the time to educate us.
Hi Danny, Could you explain 'octave' as it relates to your discussion near the end of the video and some other videos. I am familiar with octave as the 'doubling of a musical note' but I think that you are using it in a different context. Yes/no?
I know Danny already answered, but to help tie it more clearly to "musical notes". 440Hz = the A above middle C, or A4. 220Hz = A3, 110Hz = A2, 55Hz, etc. Same on the way up as well. A doubling/halving the frequency is always an octave above/below.
When you are an expert in any field, or in life...people don't know what they don't know. Unfortunately lots of people think they know. See the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
The measurement and design techniques described have been standard and well known for decades, there's nothing really controversial stated here, and people who haven't actually designed monitors should probably reserve comment. Dynaudio's 13 meter cube room in which they do time domain measurements in such a huge space that they can measure down quite low before reflections from the walls interfere is one of the few things I've seen that really takes these techniques to the next level. I do believe measurement from quite a bit farther from the drivers in a very large room (or a true anechoic chamber) is necessary for large monitors and also ones with low order cross overs, something GR-Research doesn't address. Regardless, this strikes me as a lot of useful and accurate information.
Hey Danny. Just something I’ve always wondered about. Which crossover components are you changing to get the phase relationship between the drivers aligned better? Like if you find that a 2-way speaker that comes in has a 60-80° phase mismatch, what parts or area do you change to help fix that? I’ve always wondered since I heard you mention it a long time ago. Thanks.
That jay guy is no audio engineer he throwing shade at Danny and his channel that guy is siding up with the speaker manufacturers just to get more gear coming his way
The shape of peoples ear varies significantly in both aesthetics and hearing frequency response. In short, big flat ears will hear differently from smaller cup ears that protrude from the sides of the head. A mold of different ear shapes and sizes and testing what frequencies are emphasized and deemphasized entering each uniquely shaped ear.
I was pretty disappointed in Jay for this one. The anechoic chamber thing is ridiculous gate keeping BS. Did Jeff Bagby or does Paul Carmody or Scott Hinson have an anechoic chamber? No. And yes a reviewer needs a pair, a designer does not. Come on Jay.
A person who builds cars all his life knows if i put this carb with this cam , these heads on a 350 with this converter and rear in 3000 lb car. I know about what's gonna happen when i go down the track .
Danny, the Lone Star Audio Fest is fast approaching, Jun 2-4 2023 at the Embassy Suites Galleria in Dallas, TX. Are you going to put up an exhibit? If you are then I will get a room. I’m going there anyway since I live in Allen, a 30 minute drive. I’d be excited to hear your latest product the LGK 2.4
Your patience and positivity is commendable when trying to continue to educate on these topics that come up repeatedly.
Noticeably significant speaker improvement is a combination of a LOT of different individual relatively minor or "subtle" improvements, which then combine all together into a MAJORLY noticeable improvement overall, from the way the overall speaker sounded before doing ANY improvements on it at all.
Everything Danny is saying here, I totally agree with because I've experienced these exact same things in my own speaker modifications over the decades... And I've improved literally hundreds of speakers already, at least as a hobby... I don't have a business, but I love to experiment with speakers anyway.
An excellent response Danny. You explained and contextualised and clarified beautifully.
I think Jay is being honest and objective. I have built a bunch of GR's speakers, including 2 pairs of NX-Treme's. The lack of bottom end is not simply a filter situation. I ran my NX-Treme's for over a year without a filter and that was always the most disappointing aspect of the speakers. So many woofers, yet very little bass. I even have 2 pairs of triple OB subs and STILL not enough bass. I had to add 2 rythmik sealed subs to get any punch. That said, the OB bass did open my eyes to how smeared bass is with most speaker designs. That punch comes at a cost. The bass, while not as pronounced as I would like, is extremely fast and detailed. After owning this system for a few years the bass in other systems usually bothers me for it's lack of speed and detail. The mids and highs on the NX-Treme's are among the best I've ever heard.
For the most part, I agree with what Danny has said in this video (other than the bass). I do think there is a huge difference between speaker design and a speaker review. Everyone who is paying attention knows that Amir at ASR is a joke. However, I do still think there is still a little something to the criticism about not listening to 2 speakers with these design upgrades. You made some specific mentions of a few speakers where the speakers had obvious problems - phase issues, resonances, etc. For those issues I would agree that a single speaker is enough. However, for other, more subtle issues I feel like an actual listening session with 2 speakers could make a big difference. In the same way that you might try several different amps in a system, or even speaker or power cables - the same should be true of crossover parts. You might know that a sonicap is going to be cleaner than a cheap cap that is put into the speaker from the factory - but how do you know that particular brand of cap is really the best choice for that speaker? To do this however, a customer would have to ship 2 speakers and it would involve a lot of listening tests and iterative changes. It's just not really feasible - it would be too expensive. I think you are able to make positive changes, but just not necessarily getting the *best* you could out of a speaker without doing actual listening. Is that fair?
Subsonic what you have described is just the way OB speakers are. They will never imo be the same as a box speaker for obvious reasons. OB does have bass but it's not percussive / impactful bass. Subs are really the only option and you don't want them to play up to high? It wouldn't be feasible for Danny to listen to every set of speakers, so he's just making an educated decision what would be best?
Amir does not 'review' speakers. He give a short subjective view of what the speaker sounds like tonally, which is better with 1 speaker. Tonality flaws, mismatched drivers will show itself more easily with 1 speaker. He doesnt review anything, you dont hear terms like 'musicality' 'speed' 'dimensionality' in his subjective portion. How potentially big the soundstage will be on a speaker can be all seen in the data, it really depends on how you translate it to your advantage. Its sure way better than some random guy telling you "man, the soundstage on these speakers are crazy" for you to bring it to your room to find it meh.
Thank you for your comments, first of all.
As for your question...."but how do you know that particular brand of cap is really the best choice for that speaker? To do this however, a customer would have to ship 2 speakers and it would involve a lot of listening tests and iterative changes. It's just not really feasible - it would be too expensive. I think you are able to make positive changes, but just not necessarily getting the best you could out of a speaker without doing actual listening. Is that fair?"
The answer is simply, experience. Having done this for years I know what types of components work well or match well with certain drivers. Keep in mind, I am fixing problems, making improvements, and trying to do so with as low of a cost as possible. Building out a pair of something, burning them in, listening for weeks and making any further tweaks would make those upgrade real expensive.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's in effect what I was trying to say. What I was hopefully articulating was that you are able to get 80-90% of the best out of a speaker by only getting one speaker - all of it better than the way it was. To get that last 10-20% you would really need to spend a huge amount of time really listening with a bunch of different components - all burned in. It would take far too much time to be financially feasible, and the way you do it gets you a big improvement at the lowest cost.
@@AbsoluteFidelity you can't measure soundstage with data.
Okay. so companies are spending so much time and effort using anechoic chambers etc. why are they measuring so badly and ringing based on your tests?
I mean they go through all that time, money and effort and then use inferior parts which compromises the sound.
So either Danny's tests are obsolete, or maybe big name companies are not as professional as we think they are.
Based on Danny's tests, quality parts and listener feedback, including Amir's positive review on a GR speaker upgrade, I have to start thinking that "some" these big name manufacturers are cutting corners to make more profit.
I think it's good that Jay was honest, but now I would like him to send you a pair of his new CSS speakers for review and we can see how Danny can improve them :)
Corporate method: engineering designs it then the consumer product is nothing like the design. It’s the marketing department’s responsibility to cut costs.
@@pedrodepacas4335 On the one hand I understand this and gear needs to be affordable, on the other hand don't charge people exorbitant prices and try to make ridiculous profit margins.
Greed, greed and greed is the answer.
Danny, I am always amazed at your composure when dealing with misunderstandings. You are a true Southern gentleman, and your patience is amazing.
I really am not sure why Danny is wasting his time on an amateur petty guy like Jay. Now that he is looking to cash in with CSS audio, Danny is his primary competitor. It is not hard to nail down the motives of that guy's videosm
That was a really low answer. Danny has his niche and Jay his. Colleague and competitor, in a civil manner. How would gain on being a a-hole? Drama for the audience? Dog fight?
@@wa2368 I don't want either CSS or gr-research to do badly. That is no good for anybody. They can Inspire each other to both improve products and reduce prices, or not. But if only one of them were to exist, there ain't no way that's going to happen, and consumers will be the losers.
Many of Jay's videos make it sound as though he's out of his depth.
If you're listening and giving your opinion... that's one thing. But trying to sound as though you know what you're talking about, and it seems obvious that you don't... that's a different thing.
Jay could have approached this more professionally. I watched his video. Gotcha journalism. You guys are now supposed friends so he could have asked you for a follow up discussion, instead of taking your video clip out of context.
Yet Again Jay seems to think he knows everything when he clearly does not. Nothing but a glorified TH-camr who is still wet behind the ears. It seems to be a trait of the younger generation these days. Thinking they know everything when they dont.
From my amateurish and limited, speaker and crossover design experience, when I watch Jay's video, I understood that Jay was out of his skill set. What Jay does and what Danny does are intrinsically, quite different. Sure there is overlap but Jay was taking his commentary too far into the design realm where he lacks capability. (And it showed.)
Absolutely!
Jay does not understand a lot of things, he is just an influencer.
Hey Danny! Thank you for the response and clarification. I love the fact that you actually take criticisms and turn it into a learning experience because that's not something everyone can do so Kudos to you once again.
Few clarifications from my video:
1. You mentioned splicing in the frequency response which is what I said in my video and I think there was a bit of misunderstanding there, I said "that's fair" which means I don't have problems with the way you do your measurements. I was just reporting the "Why" you do the measurements the way you do (which you explain here again) So no problems there.
2. of course you don't measure 2 speakers when doing design work, Absolutely. But you certainly listen to a stereo pair when doing design work as you do with your kits all the time *but not with your upgrade kits* (which is true and is what I reported)
I never made that criticism that you don't measure 2 speakers, it was more in reference to how you *don't really listen to your upgrade kits* to get all the intangible things down perfectly with heavy listening test *that you do on your own DIY Kits.* Which again, as I said, "only rightfully so because your products comes first." 9:35 somewhat explains that you don't need to do the same listening tests because it is repeatable and you've done it multiple times before. Makes sense, got it.
That was the main issue I had but now I have an answer. Honestly speaking, I don't I resonate with the "repeatability" part as much from my experience, as the crossover parts also seemed to sound different in interaction with different drivers used. Kind of like how you know the sound of X amplifier but then it doesn't sound good with every speaker. You obviously know the drivers you use in your kits very well and know it interacts well with the parts you use but I'm not sure if that is a "repeatable" phenomenon with other brand speakers with different drivers like a "one fit all solution"
3. I'm with you on solving "actual" problems.
4. 20:00 Mark - Holly crap that explains so much. I was not told this and I don't know your pre-amp so no wonder! 23:22 Cmon Danny! Why else would I keep asking to hear it without the subs ! haha
Okay 1, 3 and 4 we're good.
#2. This is where experience comes in. I not only know from experience what effect certain parts are going to have, but I have to know how those effects are going to match with different drivers. A lot of things have no adverse effect. For instance going from an iron core inductor to an air core inductor. The the audible differences are the same regardless of the woofer. The same is true for things in the signal path like binding posts, steal nuts, wire, and connectors. There are however, instances where different capacitors work better with certain tweeters. For instance I wouldn't use an Aluminum foil cap on a Focal tweeter. I have to make sure that I know that the parts I am using in an upgrade will match well with the drivers being used. Experience, experience.... Also, if a built out a a pair of every speaker I design an upgrade for, burn them in, listen to them for weeks, and try to tweak every last bit of perfection out of them then that would be a really expensive upgrade. Most of the stuff I have to design new crossovers for already had issues. Some of them have massive issues. So just solving those problems and upgrading the parts quality to the level of the drivers is a significant upgrade, and if I can do it proficiently then it can be an inexpensive upgrade for the customer.
@@dannyrichie9743 All I have to say to that is R.E.S.P.E.C.T it is funny though because my only criticism to you in that video was that you don't listen to your upgrade kits like you do with your own products but funny enough aren't we on the same point of view on that one? *That you gotta always listen* That is what I think we agreed and saw eye to eye. *Now I realize you are saying that you have done this for such a long time that you have it all down like muscle memory... I believe you and that is very very respectable.* I also have no problem with you spending less time on your upgrade kits VS you own products, that's understandable as I've stated in my video.
I'm not sure why this video has so many negative comments especially towards Jay. The videos Jay made while at GR Research were positive along with making a few valid points. The response video by Dannie also clears a lot of this up.
Both of you guys are awesome and thank you guys for sharing your passions with the rest of us audio whackadoos
@@JayiyagiThat guy is not in the business of micromanaging every cheap speaker sent into him. I still don’t think you get what he is saying. He’s taking a potato and turning it into a baked potato with cream cheese and chives. He’s not trying to turn the potato into a porterhouse with a side of asparagus for $12 L O L
@@veroman007 yes and I agreed that he should be and does spend more time on his own DIY Kit products... rightfully so...
Sorry, all I sense, is looking for chinks in your armour Danny.
Watched all the videos, discernment.
I have a feeling if Danny ran for mayor of his town he would have no problem winning
I'd vote for him. He can take criticisms, explain himself and agree to disagree at times of differing opinions.
Who's Jay again?
A very clear and logical, measured response from a true master of his craft
110% agree with your approach (speaking as an acoustician). Great video.
I was totally blown away by the improvements in the RP600M with the kit and what really blew me away was the sound staging and especially the depth of the sound stage and the improved presence in the mid-range and the detail up in the highest. It was a lot of fun to do. Made a big difference. Didn't cost a ton of money. Totally a win-win-win. I would love to see Jay experience what I did by sending in a cheap speaker doing the upgrade and then making the comparison.
I understand the points being made about maybe criticizing the process, but unless you are able to go through the process and hear the differences yourself, then you are really just making assumptions.
The other thing is that doing these upgrades is a load of fun and it's really had me go off on my own on working on some other speakers and building amplifiers and that's really what I think Danny is all about with this endeavor.
Are there really industry standards? There seem to be some sets of measurements that many use (both manufacturers and reviewers) and some are very similar but not entirely identical. To be able to replicate measurements the exact measurement criteria needs to be duplicated and almost cloned to be able to determine the accuracy of the original set of published data. You could be very close but close is only good for horseshoes and hand grenades. So that’s an issue. If I take a set of measurements from Person X they might use a set of measuring protocols and you can compare all the measurements of Speakers A, B, C….. because they were done using the same measurement protocols. However if Person Z measures those same speakers there will likely have discrepancies between the protocols of the two different individuals performing the test. So it’s possible Person X and Person Z may have recorded or experienced different results, responses and reactions. All the best speakers use excellent drivers, well designed crossovers with quality parts and well built cabinets properly built and assembled with good manufacturing practices.
In this forum by Danny at GR-Research we are able to see what happens when the market causes manufacturers to cut corners and the consumer is not getting what they assume they are buying. So Danny shows what happens when those products come into his shop. The consumer benefits because the curtain is pulled away and consumers and owners can see what their money bought and why they aren’t satisfied with their products.
Thanks Danny.
Now that is the professional, patient, mature way to reply to concerns of reviewers/customers! Thanks, Danny, you are a treasure of the dyi audio industry
You sound way more composed, respectful and calm in this video. Best wishes.
HAHA!! I was waiting for this video, didn't think it would be up so soon :)
I like how Danny composed himself in his response. Jay is still an apprentice in this field to say the least and some humility wouldn’t go amiss.
Considering what seems to have transpired here, I think Danny’s response is incredibly restrained, and even compassionate. He could have been a lot harsher, and yet he couched everything in friendly terms, and explained the facts simply and calmly. Jay, I love you man, but not a fan of how all this went down. I hope the whole “designing your own speakers” venture isn’t going to change you too much. 😏
I've pretty much had enough of Jay who doesn't really have many years in experience and has zero technical knowledge.
Nicely done. You let the facts speak for themselves. A gentleman would have consulted and aligned with you before releasing the video.
I also thought this. Normally, you’d run things by the person you’re doing a video on, not necessarily for their consent, but just to see if there were any glaring errors or misunderstandings (as there were in this case).
When Jay made reference to one speaker for Danny's upgrades and Amirs one speaker for subjective review I thought does this kid have no common sense. Sorry for the bluntness , but come on man !
needed to be said. he just couldnt figure out the difference?
in-correct. I made in reference to how Danny criticized Amir for not listening in stereo for his reviews and only relying on measurements
and I criticized Danny for not listening in stereo for his design work process and only replying on measurements
*for upgrade kits only. I don't want this mixed up with his actual DIY Kits, those he does heavy listening and R&D*
Danny responded obviously that he doesn't need to listen to confirm because he has been doing this for a long time and experience has built him a repeatable outcome. In which I replied that I believe him and respect that process and experience he has built.
@@Jayiyagi I understand Danny's point to be, If you know from vast experience that stereo image issues are a direct result of smearing in low grade, sluggish components, there is no need to design an upgrade kit to fix imaging problems, since by improving the parts, that is a given. Therefore, the network can be designed to improve response curve and parts selection only. If the performance and quality of network components is unknown, then I can see how testing one speaker to assess stereo performance is a problem. Congratulations on your Typhons, I watched the whole video from the show, clearly you did a great job. They look really good.
@@Jayiyagi Those are two different scenarios they are not the same. One is a upgrade and the other is a review. When doing a upgrade for a flat frequency response all you need to do is measure the speaker you dont need to listen to it because the objective is making its response flat, this is the reason you only need one speaker to measure for a flat frequency response.
Amir is doing a REVIEW. Does he measure in his reviews? Yes but its still a REVIEW nonetheless. When doing a review one needs to have a pair of speakers as the objective in any audio review is to see how a pair of speakers will sound like in stereo. I dont know any audiophile reviewer that only listens to one speaker instead of a pair when doing a review. That right there is a RED FLAG.
Its also ironic because you give great praise to the LGK's while Amir trashes them, another red flag.
Everyone who follows Amir’s cult should take that site with a grain of salt. Amir is knows as a cancer to the real audio professionals in the business. Amir and his cult is a complete joke.
Busy day today Danny after Jay sprang that video. the comments Re: other big name manufactourers spending 1000's of hours in R&D and using Anechoic chmbers versus Gated time window was a bit irrelevant considering that despite tose resources and faciliries they still vome out with speakers that dont perform well. I'm still with you. in fact I was todayin my workshop making up some pure copper Crocodile clip / solid core copper wire jumpers to do on hew fly crossover mods. thanls for the inspiration
I would buy a pair of CSS Typhons, just so I could send them to Danny to berate and upgrade.
Zero Fidelity has recently done a review
This is one of the best videos you've ever done.
Especially great or the naysayers who say things like, "then why did speaker company X design it that way, if they could have done if your way?". "Are you saying you know better than company X?".
Especially helpful were when you stated, that having big phase problem at the crossover, is not a matter of voicing the speaker. It is ALWAYS a problem. Or the problem with stored energy, or unbraced cabinet, or bad off axis response, etc, etc.
Those things are bad speaker design., they are not personal preference.
I think its positive that people can try and clarify misunderstandings without abusing others then maybe, agree to disagree.
Very well thought out explanation. Seems like just a few are capturing this relatively obvious info. Thanks.
its like jay still thinks danny may be a charlatan
Love how Danny tames all these misconceptions to the audience . I have watched every single video of Danny's from years. I must say, i admire and respect the way he handles situations where people accuse him of doing something wrong. Its very respectable and shows the power of knowledge and knowledge sharing.
I wish some day i could work for you, instead of with you. Because there is so much to learn from you, not jst about speakers but also about "perceived perspectives" too. Cheers from India.
Good work Danny. Bought your Dynaudio Specia 40 kit and the sound was incredible. What a value as an upgrade.
Then you just ruined a fantastic speaker. If you don’t like the sound then sell it and buy something that sounds good to you.
Exactly the points i made on jays threads. well done as usual. the pre amp settings was your bad tho. wink. you really laid this out precisely. this myth that speaker designers intended to create big lumpy freq response graphs needed to be killed again.
I can tell you on the recording end , say on the drums, there is usually room mics away from the drum set that adds depth. A speaker smearing a subtle sound like that can ruin the effect the recording engineer was trying to accomplish.
Thank you! You are very correct.
I honestly think you are trying to respond to someone that doesn't want to learn. You have said all of this so many times before
Agree, great comment.
It's hard to learn when you already know everything. /s
Well said.
No, I think Jay is a pretty sharp guy. He has already learned a lot, and reminds me of where I was many years ago when I started down this journey.
actually I learnt a lot from this video and my visit to Danny so...
Great video Danny as always , cheers 🥂
@Danny Richie - You are a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Class Act!!! You and your Team at GR Research have made incredible contributions to our understanding as to how impactful even subtle cabinet, crossover, wiring and equipment alterations can improve our listening experience….and I am pleased to say, I am a beneficiary of the information you have freely and generously shared via your TH-cam channel. Thank you so much!
Jay is just starting out in this industry so I think it's understandable he'll have many misunderstandings in his journey. That's the difference between a youtuber and an engineer with decades of experience
not buying into this comparison... one-dimensional voodoo...
@@michaelj.4187 No problem Jay
@@shughy1 yikes...thicker than a brick...oh my...sending you some love...
@@michaelj.4187 well if you would prefer to have your speakers designed by a youtuber with no engineering background, then go right ahead.... Maybe the release will cure your abusive attitude.
@@shughy1 Oh my...release the ego...
Danny a true pro all the work he does surpasses nearly all the work done by the other speaker makers
You don’t have a clue, what a stupid statement.
I don't understand why Jay didn't mention its complaints about his unsatisfied GR research bass performance while he was visiting you???
Danny sounds like the guy with more experience and wisdom because he's done it a lot longer.
Danny, you just talk a lot of sense. Kudos to you and the work you do. Don't stop.
I appreciated your measured and very well-articulated response to Jays video. I can appreciate Jays preference for a warmer sound: Having said that… I thought several of your speakers were missing that warmth I like (Opinion). I typically don’t use any EQ when I play music, I want it to sound like it is suppose to sound, like your sitting in front of the artist. I know I could buy a sub or a woofer stack and complete the overall sound signature, but at what cost? I would like to thank you for the Brute speaker you recently developed. I purchased a DIY kit and the knockdown cabinets from you and I was amazed at the design of these cabinets, they are very solid, very heavy cabinets. They are capable of producing a warm sound without sacrificing the mids and highs and without any EQ. I am really enjoying these speakers. I think this design emphasizes the points you made about the overall impact of frequency on Amp load. Again Thank you for all the years of learning and I strongly recommend listening to Justin Johnson on the Brutes😊 Keep on Keepin On!
Sometimes you need EQ to make is sound "natural" though.
Nothing you hear was recorded flat.
So many people have zero technical knowledge in something yet talk like they are experts. You see it all over social media...
I would not take advice from anyone who struggled to determine what color to dye his hair. His opinion is worthless .
Jays an amateur and you're a professional.
suggesting that you should listen to a pair of speakers (which is exactly what danny said for reviews) for design work does not make me an amateur but I do think Danny knows what he is doing and that he is a professional.
@@Jayiyagi Jay I really think that it's not at all feasible to listen to pairs of speakers sent in. It would take to much time, but you are correct in saying that really would be the best way for sure. It's just an educated decision on Danny's part. Please I do want people to understand that I'm in no way shape or form criticizing you as a person, just your experience level. I'm a subscriber to your channel and I do like the content.
@@davewin1792 Yes agreed and that's why I stated that he spends more time and do actual listening test for his own DIY Kits and rightfully so. I agree that I have much to learn and I will learn till I die because that is what we do but I'm not so sure if you have my resume in hand to judge my experience and education level :) I may not have the decades of cumulative experience like Danny but you may be surprised (or not) where I work haha 😅
@@Jayiyagi Enlighten us, please.
Good point. Shame on me. I didn't have to be an ass about it. I apologize.@1st-Harmonic
These TH-camrs "calling each other out"! Geeze, I'm so over it!
thanks GR-Research for the reminder about filtering out sub-bass from bookshelvers, fortunately my Vaf Research SW2's can do that filtering with a high pass out, got an immediate improvement in sound.
Danny! Jay didn’t have any good points! All those things he is babbling in his channel after the visit to your place could have been addressed straight away if he had just opened his mouth and ask when he was there. Like why do you measure only one speaker only or ask why are all the speakers a little short on bass without the subs? When in doubt just ask! Now you have to do a whole video explaining the rationality of why you are doing it and how your the pre amp is set up.
I get the impression its all about views for Jay, after all he is a young youtuber where as Danny has decades of speaker engineering. Jay comes across as very patrionising.
As someone who's spent close to 30 years geeking out on audio - studied audio engineering & electronics, built speakers, etc... and checked out many of the 'audiophile' youtube channels; Danny is the real deal.
@@asterixx6878 Fraud?? Ok Karen 😆
Do you think his partnership with CSS changes the validity of his opinions ?
I think so, Jay chose some crossover parts and now thinks he’s a master speaker designer. His partnership with CSS for his speakers have been supposedly in the works for a couple years. If those speakers weren’t just released recently I don’t think Jay would have made his video. Something tells me it won’t be his last video on GR Research
Thing he didnt say ... There not the best speakers in the world ... Like danny thinks
Your patience and your teaching abilities are remarkable thank you for your time I've just learned so much just watching your Channel about Acoustics frequency response crossovers networking is what Giver drivers do and how to change things and it's just really opened my eyes up to A Whole New World roof treatments and everything just incredible thank you
You know what you are talking and you share it with all of us, bravo.
Should you always switch to a better terminal or better components on a speaker? No, not if the loudspeaker has too many problems in the frequency, then there is no point in doing so. This is where many people get it wrong
This is one of your best videos. At least what I've seen. Good Job.
Beard looks good on you bro, keep up the good work!
Danny your never gonna please everyone
There are some terrific explanations of why you do what you do in this video. Keep it up man!
I could be wrong but I suspect that cheap parts are used in speakers because the bean counters get involved and figure out that they can save a buck or two
Danny is right for what he is doing 1 identical speaker is all he needs. Its different to looking at speaker interaction and various tests.
Once again proves everything related to GR Research is Flawless
Terrific video/response Danny, great job keeping it professional. I had hoped Jay had gained some maturity from that silly video he made a while ago but he still has some learning to do. His recent video was a thinly veiled continuation of that same mindset.
suggesting that you should listen to a pair of speakers (which is exactly what danny said for reviews) for design work does not make me immature and as I have said in my video, I am being honest and sharing what I saw and heard.
but I agree, I have much to learn and will always learn.
@Jay's iyagi We all have a lot to learn, hence why we are constantly improving our rigs.
@@Jayiyagi Its your attitude and know it all persona that needs working on. I fully agree with the above post . Get off your high horse would be a good start
I don't agree with Jay. But I think he is trying to be fair.
I don't think it's fair (or mature for that matter) to attack him because he raises some questions.
@@Tim_MacLellan My opinion is not based on just one video. Its merely an observation of Jay over the past few years.
Jay is probably a nice guy but no one has accused him of being too sharp. Good for you to take it easy on his stupidity,
suggesting that you should listen to a pair of speakers (which is exactly what danny said for reviews) for design work does not make me stupid.
Not nice to say sir.
@@daviddrake6875 You are correct. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing. My apologies to you and Jay.
@@Jayiyagi A very poor choice of words by me. I apologize.
Amazing diplomacy. Well played sir.
A very informative reply to Jay's video. We are all learning from this. Regarding base, I just assumed that Jay is a bass-head whose house moves with his music! ;-)
Hi Danny,
You covered a lot of important topics in this video. At about 16:30 into it, you began addressing the topic of spatial imaging and
some of the factors that influence spatial cues. Getting these factors right requires listening to the stereo pair to make the correct adjustments. My son used to play a game of having me guess whether a vintage recording was recorded using a acoustic horn ( e.g. - Edison's "Mary had a little lamb" or the earliest recordings of Rhapsody in blue ( 1920s); or a crystal mic ( 1930s); or electronic mic ( 1940s), etc. There are some differences that are subtle, and some are quite evident. It's amazing how much of what we understand of high fidelity starts at the proper gathering of the signal and ends with speakers properly dispersing them into the listening environment. Thank you for another informative and fun lesson !
Steve Guttenberge has listed the Klipsch RP-600M II as one of his favorite speakers he’s heard in 40 years in a recent video… Danny thinks it needs an up grade … maybe Steve’s room isn’t good or just maybe he doesn’t have good ears ….I find these up grades funny …spead your money folks
Steve Guttenberg hasn’t met a product he didn’t like.
No . Guttenberg doesn't make money with upgrade. I don't buy a upgrade with us parts if i live in germany. Makes no Sense.
@@thomasschafer7268 We've sent tons of those upgrades to Europe.
@@thomasschafer7268f you are angry on Freight costs, VAT and Toll, then buy in Germany. You only get VAT and little freight costs. I live in Sweden and know what extra costs there are in buy from the US. Sad, but true. So why are you complaining? Buy local and be happy. But if you want the expertise from Danny’s upgrades, then they cost. Nothing is free anymore.
Do remember that the US market are bigger then the European market. Americans really like US made products, in spite higher price, when it comes to quality. China will be there one day, same as Japan and Taiwan was.
Jay put his name on a speaker that intentionally colors the frequency response…so he is going to take issue with someone that fixes frequency response “errors” that he considers voicing. Also he doesn’t sell an open baffle speaker so he’s going to be hesitant to gush over open baffle.
Plus, Zero Fidelity has already stated in his review that CSS offers a modification to the tweeter response, in order to tame a “spiked” upper treble. If I’m going to spend that kind of money on a pair of speakers, I shouldn’t have to send them back to manufacturer for anything. Just saying.
@@ChicagoRob2 it is fine the way it is but CSS is offering "flexibility" because we all know everyone has different tastes and particularly high frequency tolerance. If you knock down on CSS for offering flexibility and extra free services to make sure you are satisfied... welp... not sure what to say there
@@Jayiyagi Point taken.
what...CSS Typhons have nothing to do with this. Go watch me praise open baffle speakers including Danny's and the many neutral speakers... I also didn't take issue with Danny's approach in "flattening the response" that's his way of doing things and that's that...
@@Jayiyagi past videos you do gush about open baffle…but this one your enthusiasm is more restrained and somber…charisma is gone.
Danny you are a master of audio and your explanation of things is fantastic. They way you explain testing methods really indicates how people like amir just don’t quite understand the full picture.
That difference between capacitors... Did you ever try to come up with a measurement method to show a difference in impulse reproduction? Would be really interesting if you could show that smearing due to stored energy on a scope.
Love both your and Jay's perspectives. The fact that you treat each other's opinions and observations with respect and an open ear (and mind ) is something other reviewers should make note of and aspire to.
I'd love a GR-R preamp filter you mentioned around 20:00 to cut the lower frequencies.
I don't have any preexisting bias towards or against GR-research - in my opinion this was a great response to Jay's video. No excuses, blaming, insults, just wholesome clarification towards misconceptions/misunderstandings, which happen!
Those huge speaker cables always crack me up. How large is the wire inside the cabinet... audiophiles...
You measure one speaker... you listen to two speakers. That's my rule. The only exception is when you are graphing DSP correction in room, then you use two speakers.
Danny great video response. Love all the upgrade kits you sell.
Gives alot of options to people who already own those speakers and dont wanna sell them to upgrade.
Good explanations. Although, personally, I believe that you've done a good job explaining all that stuff in the individual videos. I've learned a ton of information here.
I love watching these audio channels. I just wish I had more disposable income. Lol.
Jay is doing his utmost best in building his channel and sound reproduction knowledge. Kudos to him. Like so many of us have done, Jay is now experiencing the early stages of the Dunning-Kruger effect. That is absolutely normal considering where he is at in his journey. But as some of his videos show, it’s also something important to be aware of - learn about this and keep it in the back of the mind throughout the journey.
Completely Agree ! I also Filter out the super low frequencies from my equipment also. I don’t trust peoples opinions that look for low frequency instant gratification.
While I watch both, my ears are old and been through a lot. Speakers would probably sound different to me than either evaluators. I used to build audio equipment and GR provides me with a great deal of technical information which is more useful for decision making. Opinions listening will vary greatly. I appreciate the technical education GR provides and can more easily use this information to choose equipment specific for me. I'll take education over opinion every chance I get. Thanks for taking the time to educate us.
Hi Danny, Could you explain 'octave' as it relates to your discussion near the end of the video and some other videos. I am familiar with octave as the 'doubling of a musical note' but I think that you are using it in a different context. Yes/no?
The first octave we hear is 20Hz to 40Hz. The second is 40Hz to 80Hz. The third is 80Hz to 160Hz.... and so on.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you. I see it now.
I know Danny already answered, but to help tie it more clearly to "musical notes". 440Hz = the A above middle C, or A4. 220Hz = A3, 110Hz = A2, 55Hz, etc. Same on the way up as well. A doubling/halving the frequency is always an octave above/below.
@@ThePurpleSnork Thank you. :)
When you are an expert in any field, or in life...people don't know what they don't know. Unfortunately lots of people think they know. See the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
The measurement and design techniques described have been standard and well known for decades, there's nothing really controversial stated here, and people who haven't actually designed monitors should probably reserve comment. Dynaudio's 13 meter cube room in which they do time domain measurements in such a huge space that they can measure down quite low before reflections from the walls interfere is one of the few things I've seen that really takes these techniques to the next level. I do believe measurement from quite a bit farther from the drivers in a very large room (or a true anechoic chamber) is necessary for large monitors and also ones with low order cross overs, something GR-Research doesn't address. Regardless, this strikes me as a lot of useful and accurate information.
Hey Danny. Just something I’ve always wondered about. Which crossover components are you changing to get the phase relationship between the drivers aligned better? Like if you find that a 2-way speaker that comes in has a 60-80° phase mismatch, what parts or area do you change to help fix that? I’ve always wondered since I heard you mention it a long time ago. Thanks.
I knew right away what some of your critiques of Jay's video would be. No question the upgrades are upgrades :).
Watching Jay's video it was pretty clear that he had no intention of doing a positive video of GR research from the beginning
That jay guy is no audio engineer he throwing shade at Danny and his channel that guy is siding up with the speaker manufacturers just to get more gear coming his way
The shape of peoples ear varies significantly in both aesthetics and hearing frequency response. In short, big flat ears will hear differently from smaller cup ears that protrude from the sides of the head. A mold of different ear shapes and sizes and testing what frequencies are emphasized and deemphasized entering each uniquely shaped ear.
I love both channels equally, but yours is the one that makes me want to go back to school to build my own speakers.
amazing that you have to explain this.
As a viewer I loved both of your videos. Really helps the community to understand when you both explain your perspectives.
I was pretty disappointed in Jay for this one. The anechoic chamber thing is ridiculous gate keeping BS. Did Jeff Bagby or does Paul Carmody or Scott Hinson have an anechoic chamber? No. And yes a reviewer needs a pair, a designer does not. Come on Jay.
Exactly. I was also a bit disappointed here…and I’m a huge Jay fanboy! 😅❤
One more subjective vote for Danny's objective response.
Listening to only one speaker is like watching a 3D movie with one eye closed!
Bad comparison
@@rtth465 No it isn't.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Two different organs😂and technology. You only need one speaker for measuring if the drivers and everything else are the same
Excellent, professional, gentlemanly video that said everything that needed to be said. Jay still has a lot to learn, but he shows a lot of promise.
I encouraged Jay in the beginning but he turned into a bonehead.
A person who builds cars all his life knows if i put this carb with this cam , these heads on a 350 with this converter and rear in 3000 lb car. I know about what's gonna happen when i go down the track .
As a drag racer, I can relate.
Danny, the Lone Star Audio Fest is fast approaching, Jun 2-4 2023 at the Embassy Suites Galleria in Dallas, TX. Are you going to put up an exhibit? If you are then I will get a room. I’m going there anyway since I live in Allen, a 30 minute drive. I’d be excited to hear your latest product the LGK 2.4
We are not exhibiting, but we do plan on driving down on Saturday to see everyone.
Did you just get targeted for content lol