The Betrayal of 13 REASONS WHY S3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2019
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"Violent homophobe is actually just gay and repressed" is such a played out and absurd trope
So true
And all it does is project the narrative that gays are actually oppressed by THEMSELVES to negate the damage done by the oppressors. It's the same energy as "what about black on black crime". Not to mention treating oppression as an individual's actions and not as a part of an institutional trend
Loki Friggason The fact they they had to him go to extreme levels of bullying just to try to use the he was gay trope long after things have passed makes it a lazy trope. Especially because they went with the kill him off right after ( it still counts even if he survives).
I wrote an informal essay to a friend of mine about the portrayal of lgbt characters in 13 Reasons Why and what it boils down to is It's Bad, for literally every character, in wildly different ways. Like, Tony is the most sympathetic and developed gay character and as is mentioned in the video, he lives the life of a goddamn adult which in my opinion is reflective of the discomfort of straight writers to write gay teenagers, so they need to show them as like, "two consenting adults behind closed doors" rather than the teenagers that they are. As a side note, actors playing gay characters in this show seem to be generally older than those playing straight characters, which is... interesting.
Courtney is like.. also Really Bad Representation because literally all of the bad stuff she did that landed her on the tapes was a panicked response to the threat of being outed, and then is outed on the tapes by Hannah which is never acknowledged as being nearly as much of a waking nightmare as it would be.
Casey's treated so badly by the narrative and is undeniably implied to be a lesbian through the fact that she's constantly decked out in rainbow pins and flannel, and the main purpose of her character is be a cartoon example of a Bad Survivor while never actually making the assault she suffered real to the audience by defining what it is.
Winston is just a wildly ridiculous character and there's some really damaging stuff in there (being bizarrely fetishistic of Latine people for one thing, and the fact that he continues to hook up with the dude who beat him up which is a trope im SICK TO DEATH of seeing gay characters go through when they have like.. no fucking reason to).
And then there's just. the NIGHTMARE that is Monty's arc this season.
I actually enjoyed the show furthering his characterization, but revealing him as gay was problematic because it kind of shaded what he did to Tyler as maybe an extension of that, which inadvertently advances the misconception that rape is somehow about sex. As awful as what happened to Tyler was, one good thing about it was that it was portrayed as absolutely power-based. It was about Monty dominating and humiliating him. The reveal of Monty being gay and then him proudly telling his dad while in prison for raping Tyler really has some unfortunate implications.
I wish Netflix would stop its obsession with American high school. Not every second original needs to be about adult teenagers and muh secrets.
true but Sex Education was a lovely gift
That's British high school, and those tend to be more original. American high school shows just have to play into every stereotype with cheerleaders, jocks and loner nerd types. Even something like Death Note was remade to fit the tropes.
Teenagers are dedicated consumers and I assume they’re a big part of Netflix’s audience, so it’s not surprising that this is the content Netflix keeps on producing.
Remember when all teens cared about Naruto and Halo?
I miss Halo.
Loffeleif high school dramas are like the nu metal of film. They try to appeal to teens and try to be edgy but can't help but continuously fail again and again. For every one good one there's 30 more meh and bad ones. There's definitely fantastic pieces of work out there like the amazing Euphoria and I have a lot of nostalgia for pretty little liars as well. It's crazy how many of these kinds of shows there are but its not surprising either. Ppl love that shit. It's a good genre to get people talking about the show and it helps out news outlets by giving them another show to pump out top 5s galore about. STONKS
Can you imagine being a character in this show? Framing someone for murder then going to Chem class the next day?
Right? Like they really let Alex and Jessica get away with that?
Well they let some nobody name "ani" in the show, she single handedly destroyed this series imo ( and the writers who though it was a good idea to put an annoying new character out of nowhere)
You have a six-page essay on Pride and Prejudice due next Friday, three classmates were found dead in their lockers, and the team's first away game is the same night of Homecoming! High school, am I right?
Right? Alex literally murdered someone and just goes to class the next day, with zero guilt or remorse to be seen. Jessica too, since she watched and didn't even try to help, didn't even tell Alex he made a mistake, just went with it. Honestly, half these characters have to be diagnosed psychopaths for this to make any sense
@@angelabby2379 i mean did you just expect for there never to be a new kid in their year after hannah, jessica and alex?
When Bryce says "I went too far" it sounds like "I should have raped just a little, not so much"
Reminds of an anti-vax parent being like:"If I wanted to protect my daughter from rape, should I give her a lighter version of it?" And I was like🤨
"i should have stopped at harassment goddamn it"
@@legrandliseurtri7495 That's probably the most anti vax thing I've ever heard
This show was originally about Hannah Baker and JUST Hannah Baker. Now, it’s just Riverdale for the kids who are too edgy for that show.
Agreed, somewhere all the way, it stopped being about Hannah and her story, and turned into a bizarre Riverdale/Twin Peaks hybrid!😮
Riverdale with better acting tbh
@@dangernoodle9961 obviously you've never seen an episode of Riverdale because the acting is one of the few things that does not suck
@@cocolime6496 Well, to be fair, the actors are given terrible lines. You can only go so fair with delivering gems like "I'm weird. I'm a weirdo." Etc. I hate the way Cheryl's actress delivers lines, though she is given a lot of shit lines. The rest of the actors are ok. So I think the main difference is that either enough of the dialogue in 13 reasons why is better than riverdale, or that the actors in 13 reasons why deliver the bad lines in a way that feels more natural than riverdale. In either case, I believe the characters in 13 reasons why way more than Riverdale. They feel more grounded and realistically acted (despite the way the scripts make them unrealistic, like Justin being an addict but also never showing symptoms/signs of being an addict
Hannah Baker is also really dumb.
Everything that happenend to her in season one could've been avoided if she made the right decision.
They getting 15 yr olds to feel bad for a rapist bc he didn’t get enough attention lmaooo
But I’ve seen so many fans of the show feel bad for the Monty character. I don’t really care about blurring the lines and humanizing a villain because that’s life and I can think for myself and come to my own conclusions, but I think that idea is too complicated for modern day hive-minded teens. They should just stick to telling the viewers how horrible boys are like the other 95% of this show lol
It's not about saying boys are horrible, it's about accountability- boys are fine, rapists are horrible. The whole idea is that we need to tell boys that they don't have to be horrible, and remind everyone that we don't really need to forgive horrible people. I'm honestly on the edge of my damn seat waiting for a show to show a survivor, in a positive light, say that their abuser is unforgivable. This guy certainly was, and that's how his arc should have ended, really.
Morgan LeBlanc Halloween 2018 lol. And I’m just voicing my opinions on the lack of awareness of both the writers and the fandom for this show. They had an entire episode in season 2 where one of the female leads talks about how boys have no idea what true stress is in high school compared to girls and yet the show featured a male character going through these horrible tragedies of a modern teenager that ultimately led to getting raped, and the reaction to it for the most part was “ew why is this even in this show?”
You guys just dont get it.
Bryce was completely evil to an uncomplexed and borderline comedic extent, who's sole motive is to hurt others, until he gets defeated. After his defeat he randomly decides to pull a 180 and is suddenly the nicest guy ever and just wants to be friends with everyone and help people.
Dont you guys see? Bryce is just a *shonen anime villain*
Don't put disrespect on all my felloemw 5 years old we don't do that check the 12-13 year olds
_"But Zach had a secret."_
_"But Zach had ANOTHER secret."_
Ok, that was funny-
"Oh that's Ani, she knows everything about everyone. That's why her hair is so big, it's full of SECRETS."
Yesssssssss
Did you maybe watch the show? I don't wanna watch it but how does she know everything about anyone? When did she join? I can't remember her seeing her anywhere in the first or second season though.
@@paranoidastronaut5792 her mother moved to Bryce's home from the UK to housekeep and Ani was just snoopin and spying
This is the best comment 😂
@@MichellaneousMe idk it's kinda cringe
13rw season 4: actually, Hannah is alive, everyone else is dead
That’d be a cool plot twist if it was revealed that Hannah faked her death
SuperJackster01 Holy shit
In theory but then it just makes this already bizarre and convoluted story more convoluted. Like imagine if this happen in real life at this scale. You’d think people would find out one way or another. I get this is supposed to kinda be a microcosm of what it’s supposed to be like to be in the current teenage world with everything dialed up to 11, but at some point you’ve got to ground everything
The society tease
season 5: jeffery epstein didn’t kill himself
it’s quite funny when you realise this has all happened to one year group, like imagine the year below being like ...r yall ok??
indifferent gremlin stan Shiiiiiit yeess
Turns out it's the town in 13 Reasons Why is really a government experimental project testing the effects of genetically modified humans which is being secretly studied and that's why all this crazy stuff is happening to that year group. Secrets!
Faith Clark knowing Netflix they’d do this just to justify the shows moral and psychological dilemma
And the younger kids are scared like oh shit is that going to happen to us too?
bruh when did this get so many likes..
Fun fact:
A draft of the script had Bryce rescue homeless puppies, help the elderly and save a small child from a oncoming truck.
Raspberry Milkshake 🤮🤮🤮
@carolina hernandez it's a joke, smarty pants
@@gildasdoingstuff8654 Knowing this show, however, anything's possible.
@@somedude9528 ok boomer
Its true tho
@Suppertimepuss2 ok boomer
Why is everyone so ripped in this high school
Dylan Julve cuz they’re all 30 years old
Dylan Julve eXctly most of the kids in the class barely weigh 120
Go Tigers
@Speckled Legs when I was in high school (c/o 2015), 65% of guys looked like this.
no fat representation whatsoever
Sounds like the season was written exclusively by judges who've given rapists lenient sentencing because, "They have a bright future and this could ruin that for them."
Nublet864 i love your profile picture
@@SO01j20
Thanks!
Sounds exactly like the judges who give women passes
“Why ruin his future for 20 minutes of action?”
@@SadEyes1412 what are you talking about? This is about 13 reasons why.
“secret” doesn’t sound like a word anymore
alwaysreference07 fetch is. This show ain’t fetch.
Precisely, they've used it so many times across 13 episodes that it's just become meaningless and repetitive now!😤
i feel like the writers had no access to a dictionary.... or no understanding of what a synonym is... or they just dont care how dialogue is framed.
@@trinaq has anyone dared do a drinking game with it. 🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃🥃 Cause this will send anyone to the hospital.🤮 🏥 Probably wouldn't.
If you hear a word that many times and with the frequency of that compilation you’ll get that feeling.
That show should've been a mini series about Hannah Baker's suicide and be done with it.
In the book she doesnt even kill herself.
@@BurntPie What!! For real?
No, she does, but not from cutting her wrists. She dies from overdosing on pills, but for whatever reason they decided to change it in the show to her cutting her wrists in the bathtub.
They care more about their bank account than producing quality content
And since Netflix is allowed to do whatever they want with episodes lengths, the episodes should’ve been a bit shorter. I get why they wanted to focus each episode on a tape, but they didn’t have to drag the less serious ones out for nearly an hour.
ani is the new girl, she knows everything about everyone though and they trust her with their lives. but she arrived like two weeks ago.
Perfect example of a Mary Sue
They should have made her an obsessed stalker or something.
Xehanort10 that would’ve actually been genius as shit. It would fit the profile of one and the narrative
And she slept with a know r@pist
Ani was literally the most annoying non-character ever invented. The only reasons she exists is to drop exposition bombs on the audience that the creators couldn’t be bothered to do in a creative way. On top of that, the only way that she even knows anything is because she spends 90% of her screen time just eavesdropping on people. The fact that the climax of the season was some pretentious British girl lecturing a policeman on how to investigate a murder is laughable.
I couldn't agree with your comment more! While the concept of watching the events unfold through a newcomer's eyes sounds compelling on paper, the execution just doesn't work. Ani comes across as nosy and intrusive at best, and it doesn't help that EVERYONE immediately accepts her into their social circles, entrusting her with secrets, and she narrates events that she was in no way present for. It might have been more effective had Ani been around since the beginning, so that we'd have had time to get accustomed to her. Grace Saif also doesn't deserve to get bullied off of social media for simply doing her job!😩
tbh it feels like the showrunners wanted to create that same feel you find in a lot of Japanese media, like the Persona games. Where it's a group of teens against the world, and often they're dismissed and disbelieved if they try to defend themselves, and you root for the teenagers because they're so much more aware and sensitive to the world around them, often acting more adult than adults. But the problem is that American society treats their teenagers completely different than in Japan, and so you have these teenagers behaving like adults, but with the adults around them desperate to help them. So, it just because laughable, as you said, because these kids have zero reason to be the way they are with regards to adults.
Is she like Doyle's great grandkid
______ You could've just said diversity reasons. She's not mulatto lol
I couldn’t finish the first episode because of her. Not boutta watch the rest.
Thirteen Reasons Why Season 9:
Clay helps the DEA to find a drug dealer in school
Spoiler: Ani was working with Tuco the whole time
Thirteen Reasons Why Season 13:
Clay teams up with The Avengers to stop an alien invasion in New York
Jack Luddy she was working with Skinny Pete
13 reasons why season 10: 21st jump street
Season 14: the gang go to the upside down
I hate how Jessica's only personality trait is being a survivor. I'm a survivor, I'm also a dog person, and love doing normal things with my friends. We are still people after we're assaulted. Of course aspects of us change and mental health issues arise and we struggle, but we are still people with other parts of us worth noticing
all the characters just became their mental illnesses ,or at least their personalities revolve around that
I like art and I like my job and I have goals again. Lets talk about all those things
The hardest part of this show for me as a senior, is that these “kids” are portrayed as juniors. They go through all of this shit barely halfway through high school. I understand that some crazy shit can happen in HS, but come on.
I've gone through all of this besides the rape and the murder
Basically every high school show ever lol
the beginning of junior year is the halfway mark lmao whats the difference between a senior and junior it has nothing to do with it
Mar Zhou that isn’t the point but ok
Euphorias the only high school show that's any realistic
“Zach remains the most reasonable person in the show” basically summarizes the entirety of the show
EDIT: I just watched the disaster that was season 4 and this statement has now aged like milk
Which says something because he definitely lacks reason in so many of his actions.
True, Zach was the only person who wanted to turn Tyler into the police, despite everyone's blatant objections, when he was justified in wanting to do so when Tyler was willing to kill them all just a few short months ago. Zach, Tony, Justin and to an extent Tyler, are now the last likable characters left on this show.
@@BZgA it was his first girlfriend with Hannah and he really made her happy while they were together. The end was shitty but while they were together he seemed great for her. He turned himself in for killing Bryce! No one else would have done that. He was the only one who rightlyfully wanted to turn Tyler into the police. He was great for Chloe they seemed great for each other and he truly cared about her
@Burnt Orange 🅱️ruh that just shows what a dumb show this is netflix fucked up
@@hollyg7346 Zach literally wanted sex with her over anything else. A whole scene with them was all about how he kept convincing her to have sex him almost everyday.
*”I watched all three seasons and I’m a survivor.”*
Preach it, I only made it to Season 2 before rage quitting!
@@trinaq lol me....2 tested me beyond wat my patience could allow
I'm a survivor too
I am fast forward survivor of this show in an hour I watched whole season
lmao good one
I'm colourblind. He spends the first 5 minutes talking about how the saturation changing was better in the first season yet I litteraly thought the only difference was clays bandage this entire time whoops
This is very late but same-
I’ve seen someone say “Bryce was one of my faves this season”, i was disgusted
Dolphins will take over mine too
@@nakadameridian8460 yikes stop supporting abusers.
Mother Suspiriorum Are villains written with more depth than their antagonistic counterparts or do actors that play villains happen to be more emotionally enigmatic in their roles?
Nakada Mer Can you rephrase your comment because I can’t understand it.
Mother Suspiriorum I edited it. like Bryce bc of one of the questions I asked you.
12:32 “once again this show proves that it does not care about mental illness, it cares about what is dramatic and exciting, and uses affectations of mental illness to convince us we’ve seen something eye opening”
THANK YOU
Only that it isn't even really dramatic and exciting
And now it's kinda saying: *"Bryce was a victim too! His actions are reasonable because he was suffering too!"* fuck off with your explanation for why it was okay for him to have raped people.
Seriously, it does horrible at portraying mental illness
I was scrolling through the comments, and just as he said that part, I read your comment. Creepy
I think it did care at the beginning. Season 1 for all of its flaws, is sincere. It’s intentions are genuine. But then you get to season 2, then you’ve got B movie style schlock. Utter crap. I mean I enjoyed it, but purely for the fact it was entertaining and easy to turn my brain off to. Which is the issue. This show wants to desperately be both Riverdale and a social commentary. It can’t really have both because one destroys the integrity of the other. If they go social commentary, they have to ground the story and tone down the sensationalist aspects of a Riverdale style show. If they go down the Riverdale style of things, you lose the impactfulness of what the message is. Season 1, despite having a lot going on, is relatively grounded in that everyone’s got their own minor story which impacts the lives of others. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that something like season 1 could actually happen in real life. But going further beyond that goes down the route of absurdity. Like yes, school shootings are common these days but it seems like it was shoehorned in. If you e got something like that going on, it’s got to be the main plot for the most part. But here, you’ve got the school shooter angle, the rapist ring, Clay’s manic episodes, Alex suffering with the consequences of attempted suicide, etc. Like, did Clay’s hallucinations need to happen? Did the rape ring need to happen? Or at least, could they at least have split this all up into different seasons? Maybe allude to the rape ring during season 2 then use that as a way to contrast that stuff with his “good” image? Maybe isolate the season 2 story to the making of a school shooter and how he came to be? Maybe just completely scrap the hallucination stuff? Maybe just have Clay have vivid dreams of Hannah where they talk and use that as a way of getting in Clay’s head as well? Idk, season’s 2 and 3 are just a mess. Season 1 at least was somewhat believable, and it seemed to have good intent. Since then though, it looks like Netflix are trying to milk it for all it’s worth
Season 1: Bryce Walker is a Vile, Irredeemable, Sadist
Season 2: Bryce Walker is a Vile, Irredeemable Sadist times infinity
Season 3: Bryce Walker is actually a Gentle, Misunderstood Soul, give him a break, guys!
So now they're literally saying that a rapist should be forgiven if they were traumatized or even died? Yea right! They need to fuck right off. I have friends who are rape survivors and this is *offensive and disgusting*
Trina Q well the moment, we decide who lives and who does morality becomes subjective, and all life becomes meaningless.
@@oddeyes9413 No they don't they're trying to show that he is still a human, his actions are disgusting and unjustifiable but the show is trying to show that he isn't a heartless monster
@@jaf4912 well, they sure as hell failed at that.
@@oddeyes9413 People actually ship Monty with that guy from the party he beaten up and apologizing him brutally raping Tyler because "cute gay scene!" There is something seriously wrong with those people.
The title "13 Reasons Why" doesn't even fit the show anymore
S1: 13 Reasons Why S2: 13 Testimonies Why S3: 13 Justifications Why R4pe Is OK
@@datboi2250 Lol true
@Fernando Alvarado in that case, it would be Every Reason Why
Season 4 dosen't even have 13 episodes, which was the perfect explication to keep the title
13 reasons why: Rapists are people too!
Everyone that is not a rapist: Am I a joke to you?
So you think sin is measurable? You think you’re a better person than someone who has raped or killed? You’re not. No one is. We’re all sinners and should strive to be better people. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Love the sinner, hate the sin. We all fall short of God’s glory.
@@sailorarwen6101 miss me with that pretentious bullshit. I'm sorry but I think anyone who hasn't raped or killed anyone is definitely without a doubt is better than those who have. Just because we've all "sinned" doesn't make one any less serious than the other.
@@sailorarwen6101 Anyone who has not raped or killed a person is a better person than anyone who has. Don't be stupid.
@@sailorarwen6101 what the actual fuck are you even babbling about?
Yes I am better than a fucking rapist, anyone that didn't rape people is.
Rapists are psychopaths with no redeeming value. And we are not talking baby sins like gluttony or Envy, we are talking about a crime. A crime that leaves psychological damage on their victims, all for the thirst of power the criminal had.
Get out of here with this "no one is better than anyone Bullshit"
@@sailorarwen6101 "So you think sin is measurable?"
*Yes.* Someone whose biggest crime is stealing their friend's eraser is confidently less sinful than serial rapist. Does that make them best person in the world? Absolutely not, there are many people much wiser than them. Are they better person than, say, serial rapist? I'm sorry but yes, that's a freakin fact.
I miss those days when we had camp rock as the most outrageous teen drama.
Tell me about it! Alas, thoughs were simpler time
camp rock was my childhood even though i only remember its actors. That was atleast more pleasant to remember than this one.
That show was intended for kids/teens, this one wasn’t?😂
Aren't you sheltered? Degrassi had been running for about 20 years by the time Camp Rock came out and it dealt with all the mature high school themes 13 Reasons covered, except it remained grounded.
Skins didn't die and have a character called The Mad Twatter to be forgotten like this.
And I’d like to point out that they threw Justin’s molestation in there just to add it in there. They brushed over it. It wasn’t meant to push the plot along in anyways. It was just to add it in there for shock factor. And I think it’s kinda gross
Pato •• yeah honestly and his whole “I didn’t say anything bc you had to heal in your own time” shit bothered me so fucking much. No. No if your girlfriend was suffering from trauma you understood and related to you’d fucking hELP. I know it’s just an explanation for the random sudden plot twist and to justify Jess and Justin being together but my GOD that line bothered me so much. Sexual assault victims need to stick together it’s not every victim to themselves. A better excuse would’ve been that he wasn’t comfortable opening up about it until she did that whole speech. Just because it happened ages ago doesn’t mean he’s healed and is some wise guru on sexual assault trauma. I mean hell it happened again recently when he was on the street so he’d be having to recover and heal again. Going through trauma once doesn’t work like a vaccine. It’s still going to be traumatising if it happens again.
Not every character is going to get a whole arc about their sexual abuse, that was the point. Sexual abuse victims can be anybody
Walter White that’s not what I was saying. I was saying that it wasn’t thrown in for that purpose or that impact but it was thrown in just for the shock factor of another character being a victim. Just further underlining the show doesn’t want to be helpful it’s there just to shock you.
Bored Nerd I was molested at a young age and i’ve always been scared to say it. I’m a guy so it feels so much worse to bring it up. My gf has been thru similar things as Jessica as well and its been hard to bring it up to her, I did tho. I think its kind of shitty of you to say that “he has to”. No he fucking doesn’t. Sexual assualt victims can bring it up whenever they want. Even if this was just randomly thrown in, Justin was still my favorite character. They way they portrayed being molested at a young age and dealing with when you’re older was realistic, at least for this season. Esp for a guy molested by an older guy. Idk i might be bias because it hits too personally but I didn’t mind that.
Yeah I hated what they did with that too.
The way they handled Monty's character was just...gross.
Controversial opinion: season 2 finale should have been Tyler carrying out his plan. Season 3 should have been who lived, who perished, and the investigation/aftermath.
this would have been more realistic
I don't think that an investigation after Colum 2: Electric Boogaloo would fill up a sufficient amount of episodes. On the other hand they were able to stretch an investigation about a girl comitting toaster-bath to 2 seasons so I might be wrong.
@@datboi2250 your comment is way funnier than it needed to be
Wait what did the jocks/preps do 😢
i know, like its so unrealistic that clay could talk down someone with an m16 and the fact they can protect a fuckigns school shooter without anyone getting close to finding out is stupid
As a survivor, Bryce's arc is offensive. He has destroyed several women live's. He is a monster, not a good guy and the thought that he is redeemable is sick.
Stephany Feege exactly. and it fucks up how people will treat abuse victims. and it put me in such a shitty place with my abuser’s actions, as if i had to forgive him because he struggled too. it’s gross.
I didn't even watch season 2, but I wouldn't be able to watch s3 if I had to even look at that characters face the whole time
@@smelly6137 I don't think you have to forgive him if he struggles, , I think you should forgive him if he really regrets it and becomes a better person, that dosent mean that person soudnt go to jail, I think he has to pay in a legal level, but could be forgiven in a moral level
I'm not sure that's the message mate. The show isn't telling you what's right or wrong.
it was so disgusting on the shows part. like if he regrets it and wants to become a better person, good for him, hopefully one less rapist in the world. but why does the show try so damn hard to make us feel bad for him? like i don't care about his "trauma" or " story" ,,,,he done fucked up period. he deserves punishment and the show pointlessly tries too hard to humanize him
"It wasn't sexual assault, I was messing with him" My god, what is this show?
levis cleaning items in a word: trash. They should’ve followed the book and made one season or just a movie. Season two and three were plucked out of thin air
But like, this video doesn't go into detail, and I'm definitely watching the video instead of the season so.... Seriously, what's the context of that line? Are we supposed with him, or is it supposed to be like, "Look at this disgusting excuse Monty just said! He's such a bad person haha!"
David B Jacobs we’re definitely not supposed to be with him. what he did to tyler was vile, i think the line is from when he got reported to the police for sexual assault against tyler, so he’s trying to say that raping tyler with a mop isn’t sexual assault, they were ‘just messing around’!
@@davidbjacobs3598 Monty, in every season has been a disgusting character that does cruel things to keep people at arms length. In two occasions when confronted about what he did to Tyler, in both situations he tried to downplay it to be like "Aww I was just messing with the kid" as just a way to make him more punchable.
No officer listen it wasn't a murder, I was just messing with him
13 Reasons Why are we still doing this?
1. Money
And that’s it.
"Mr. Krabs, what was the reason for opening a second Krusty Krab?"
Arg arg
I'm dying laughing at the Tony part. The writers really want you to know that he's in high school though. When the cop showed up to the mechanic shop, the cop mentioned high school 3 times. It's just hilarious to witness at this point
Alex At least the last two seasons tried to make him look young. I swear, not even the creatos give a shit anymore.
Ever since the first season I thought he was a senior who took Clay in under his wing
I personally found the attempts to humanize Monty more disgusting. Never mind the fact that the trope of a character being secretly gay because of a homophobic parent is extremely overused, Monty is arguably more irredeemable than Bryce. Monty never shows any remorse for what he did to Tyler, even after being sent to prison. But we're supposed to sympathize with him because he has an abusive and homophobic father?
Jorge Hernandez
Yeah..? What kind of home you grew up in is very indicative of what kid of person you become. Of course we should feel bad for him.
@@kaycrawley7496 That's not always the case, I've known people who have good parents that were shitty people. Even then, it doesn't matter what a person's background is, once they rape or murder someone they no longer deserve sympathy, especially if they show no remorse for what they did
@@1800Hernandez That and the fact that he beats the shit out of a guy he slept with. Like, imagine trying to make the audience feel bad for a guy who beats a girl after he slept with her. But just cause Monty is secretly gay, is okay?
Irredeemable? Yes. How so more than Bryce though?
Serial rapist vs one known act of violent sexual assault.
The entire season was dedicated to Bryce's "humanity." Monty's humanization was small by comparison.
Jorge Hernandez We didn’t have to sympathize with him. Stories across the ages have fleshed out an irredeemable character but that doesn’t mean its for pitying them. I think you’re looking at it wrong. I didn’t even feel that bad for Bryce. He was still a piece of shit, the only sad thing is that he could have potentially fixed his life.
Imagine being Netflix and continuing this show for longer than American Vandal
And Everything Sucks and Sense 8
and the oa 😔
And Daredevil
I know, they cut "One Day at a Time" and the Marvel Line up, but they renewed this show and "Insatiable"?!😮
And The Get Down
No one:
Not a single soul:
Ani: SeaCReTs
Sick Rats
I was first introduced to the madness of season 3 from the review from Pretty Much It in which a quote from them goes, “the writers of this season never watched the other seasons. They just went, So Bryce is our hero right?” That just sums up this season. This is an amazing video by the way.
I only watch this show in order to watch the Pretty Much It commentary tracks
@@JLMac322 same tbh
bruh why'd they make season 3, Hanah Baker can't kill herself for a third time
Seán Keogh Or CAN she?
I shouldn't laugh 💀💀
That sounds like a challenge
The writers room after seeing this comment:Write that shit down
@@MacyPooh196 This reminds me of a case where a former SF operator was found in his garage with 10 gunshots to the head and police claimed it was suicide. So I guess if he could pull it off, so can Hannah.
So, 13 Reasons Why is literally saying that the rapist is *a victim too* that's disgusting. It's no excuse to do what Bryce did. Netflix, you should be ashamed of exploiting something that was supposed to be about mental health and suicide awareness and prevention. Seriously, Its just gross.
Season 3's only benefit is that it serves as an example of the bizarre and frantic responses to changing attitudes and acknowledgement of sexual assault in the world at large, as viewed from the perspective of the entertainment industry, which has historically been a safehaven for sexual assault. Its a weird attempt at damage control.
Well really a rapist is a victim too, not a defendable one of course but still a victim. No one is born a rapist something makes them into one, whether it be trauma, poor childhood etc which I think it 13ry tried to touch on but kind of half assed
Bryce was a victim of murder. Period. And robbed of getting justice for what was done to him (alex and jessica are fine). It doesn’t matter what he did (he is still the rapist), you can’t recover from murder, you can recover from rape.
Kinda sucks that must people don’t get this nuance
@@aidenjeanes9885 Bryce isn't revealed to be a victim of trauma at all. He literally just has a contentious relationship with his dad. Lots of people have daddy issues and manage not to grow up and rape 12 people.
Its no excuse to do what Bryce did, but it doesnt mean he doesnt deserve redemption. The 3rd season played well with morallity gray areas, even though it had some problems.
There’s this play called ‘How I learned to Drive’ about a woman who is consistently molested by her uncle. The entire play is about their relationship and how, despite the ways he’s sexualized her and hurt her over the years, she still loves him and doesn’t want to view him as a monster. The entire play really goes into her whole life, even depicting how her being mistreated by her uncle leads to her having enough of a negative view of herself that she proceeds to seduce a high schooler when she’s a professor. The play is really impactful and says a lot about the societal impact of sexualizing young women and how the cycle of abuse essentially affects each person involved in it. However, as much as the play allows you to understand and sympathize with both her and her uncle, they never try to paint her uncle as ‘the victim’, instead choosing to focus on how society treats victims and understanding why some victims don’t come forward. That entire play does this concept of understanding how awful people get molded into themselves much better than this show. And it genuinely disgusts me how little this show seems to give a shit about its audience or its impact simply because they want to be ‘deep’ or ‘dramatic’.
“How far is too far for redemption” can be a great premise to explore in the right hands of the right writers.... but these writers really made a point to make sure that there was no redeeming this character. And then 1 season later they are trying to make him a saint just because he’s being bullied at his new school?? And then to make him completely change to his evil self in his dying moments??? Like what are they trying to do 😪
@Super JLK they killed a serial child rapist, hardly counts as cold blooded murder
@@InitialPC that's supposed to be the nauce though right? You murder a rapist and then try to offset the blame to another one after covering it up, are you *really* in the right?
Jhizl
God.... Bryce does not need extra emotional depth, because he was already a complex and CONSISTENT character (perhaps the only one in the series). He was a total monster, however through the small glimpses of his relationship with his parents we could kind of understand why he had become like that. He was a perfect antagonist and I really enjoyed hating him. But it looks like at this point they've ruined all that was good in the show
@@TheSalamanderMenace4 probaly to much effort for this Show i guess
Applies to many villains honestly. Giving small hints of their true motivations is often better than a big backstory. Tywin Lannister from a song of ice and fire is a good example. Absolutely monstrous, but you learn enought about him to understand how he became this way without pitying that much.
Ya know it's kind of scary when it comes to this show because whenever I think of villain I don't think of a rapist. This black or white, heroes or villains kinda story just doesn't work for a show that touches into serious topics.
It’s one thing to humanize a rapist, it’s another thing to act like he or she is also a victim in the scenario.
I think if they wanted to make him a complex character they should have done that from the beginning not throw that in at the last second and do a lazy retcon
_"We all have sea crits."_
Nimbus lmfao
Unless there's a grave cleric to cancel it out.
We all have seacreasts
*"Keep your sea crits"*
She said "seacrits and seacri's" so inconsistently
Nobody:
Ani: The ~M A S T E R S E C R E T K E E P E R~
Sounding like Lord Varys from Season 1 of GoT lmao
I don’t get why the police were so convinced Clay killed Bryce because he threatened him and they argued but when Zack tells them he literally beat Bryce to a pulp and left him for dead immobilized on the ground the night he died they shrug it off like nothing. He literally tells them he killed them and theyre just like nah no you didn’t.
ik this is 3 years later but they said he didnt because his story didnt line up with what happened to bryce. bryce drowned. zack just broke his limbs and left him.
When you played clips of Ani saying "secrets" at some point it started to sound like "sick rats"
Beruthiel Númenórean Really? I heard Seacrest
It because of her fake-ass British accent. I guess in the writers room there was a big wheel of "personalities" with fields like "gay" "british accent" "hard childhood" "unstable".
Żulian Putinowicz Grudzienienko i thought the actress was actually english??
Julian Grudziński She’s English though..
9:03 But zack had a sick rat, but zac had another sick rat
Ani is the jar jar binks of Netflix
thank you lego qui-gon jinn
This comment just made my day
I always read it as "Qwee Qwon Jeen"
Meesa like that!
a sith lord?
Season 3: *”SEA CRITS”*
I would argue that there's no logical reason for Ani to know ANYTHING she knows. Isn't she supposed to be "the new girl" ?
I thought she was going to be like a keyser soze or some shit
She's probably magic or something, if ghosts are confirmed to exist, what's stopping the writers from adding other godly dieties
13 reasons why season 10: clay raids area 51 with goku while chased by military
13 reasons why season 11: Clay stops the russian hackers and saves america
13 reasons why season 13: Clay is actually a vampire and brings Hannah back to life with the infinity stones
LMAO this thread
@Albus Dumbledore You should write this show XD
13 reasons why season 14: clay gets stuck in an anime has to fight off demons and neko girls
the ratio change looks like a game cutscene lol
alx xox lol. Cutscene mode to gameplay mode.
The producers of the show should watch a season or two of Breaking Bad and take notes on how to write morally complex characters in a socially corrupt world.
S4: Hanna is actually alive. Her parents helped fake her death.
The timeline in this season was so hard to follow. The present also didn't always add up with the flashbacks.
For example: in the present, when Bryce's body was found, his mom didn't really seem to care. It was like she understood that he was murdered and she didn't really blame the murderer for doing it, cause she felt the same way about her son. But in the flashbacks, you see her relationship with Bryce healing and growing to the point where she really loves him again and can even laugh with him and comfort him. So why was she so cold about him being dead in the present? Just so the first episodes of S3 could 'neatly' match up with how she felt about her son in season 2? Kinda sloppy if you ask me (but no one's really asking me, so...)
You can tell by the lighting
@@packedmanz6528 But still. Like Taylor said, there were flashbacks within flashbacks and so forth. It's definitely not impossible to follow, but I found myself forgetting where we were in the timeline whilst watching.
@@lisadevries1099 ahh ok in that case...
Just go along with the messiness
It’s really not hard you just gotta think a bit
“Whenever Bryce went off in his new school uniform I felt like I was watching an episode of Mackenzie Falls” LMAO
LMAO I REMEMBER THAT
Oh my god
Oh my god... Mackenzie Falls? That thing from Sonny With a Chance? God noooooooo I haven’t heard that in *_years_*
Taylor ripped us out of the present and body slammed us back to our childhood with that one line. I couldn't stop laughing💀💀
*Zach had a secret*
A few moments later
*bUt ZaCh HaD aNoTher seCreT*
I will always hated how this show tries to paint being a victim as being "cool" or "edgy". I have started speaking out about my issues (sexual assualt, abuse, PTSD, depression, anxiety) as a way of both helping other victims and those who are trying to support their loved ones who are suffering. I'm by no means a profession; I just try to be an open, nonjudgmental friend. While talking to one girl who wanted to better understand what a victim went through, she expressed to me that she was "jealous" and thought I was "lucky" because she had such a romanticized idea of what it means to be a victim. Being a victim isn't cool. It's not trendy. It's traumatic and is the source of a lot of struggles and (at times) death. By romanticizing this, shows like 13RW teach people that being a victim/survivor isn't something that should genuinely be taken seriously. It undermines the work that so many have done to prove that mental health should be treated with care, as well as abuse and sexual assualt. It's repulsize. And then to cap it off with "but this serial rapist isn't SO bad!" is the definition of disrespectful and repulsive. I never had much respect for this show at all, but I could try to say that they at least thought they were doing good. Now, seeing them try to claim that Bryce just needs to be forgiven because he "isn't so bad", I can't think of a single way they can justify how blatantly vile it is. Not only does it set up the concept of "the victims are wrong if they can't forgive", but it's DANGEROUS! Statistically speaking, 60% of convicted and released rapists will be arrested for the same crime WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE. You can't pretend that this character is in any way worthy of a grand redemption arch.
I
Yeah, this show does not give a shit about depicting mental illness in a realistic and educating way despite believing they do. That's why watch these videos instead lol
I think you might need to re watch that season. Maybe come in without a narrow view of criminals and you might realize the shows true intentions. NOBODY thought being the victim was cool, they were just trying to explain why he did things he did. NOBODY claimed that "Bryce just needs to be forgiven because he "isn't so bad"." Stop spouting BS thank you!
@@uhoh20yearsago61 then how can you truly say that? you're talking shit about them, but haven't really watched it yourself.
@@manny5051 I agree; the show's purpose is to show that everyone is both flawed and good in some way.
Now, the problem with that is that it doesn't show us the whole way through. Bryce, for example, is basically the bad guy throughout the entire first and second season
This is a cautionary tale.
Don't write dlc for an original novel when your writing is worse than a 5 year old.
I thought we learned this lesson with Game of Thrones, Predator, Terminator, and Star Wars god damnit.
Why is this happening so much.
@@TVJUNK85 capitalism
You seem to think like a 5 year-old
@@kariissmol9172 Thanks for the insight, Dakaria. Real smart person, just having a one word response to a question
Nobody:
Absolutely no-one:
Not even the police:
Ani: Everyone has *SECRETS*
Did the show casually forget about the ENTIRE mop handle scene. Like “oh btw we are never going to use that very traumatizing scene, so like have fun!”.
One thing I always live by: if you have traumas that cause you to feel and think bad things (rape, murder, violence, drugs etc.) I will sympathize for you. Just because you think it and it intrudes your mind doesnt mean that's who you really are. But as soon as you cross the line between just thinking it and actually acting on it, I dont care how you got there. I dont care what trauma you had or why you did it, you still caused trauma on someone else. The same should go for Bryce
This show should be renamed: "How to get away with murder"
How to get away with murdering yourself :)
@@amazingjay3957 that's the point ...
Wouldn't want to spoil that show
@Chair of Truth isnt it on its last season?
@@albertjacobosantana6985 it is
This show just feels so... weirdly half-assed. Like it can't decide what it wants to be, so it tries to be everything and winds up being nothing. You can level A LOT of criticism at Riverdale, but that show knows exactly what it is and it never stops being that. It never backs off from its balls-to-the-wall absurdity. Its absurdity feels intentional, and the show knows how insane it is. With 13RW, the absurdity feels accidental, written by people who think it's perfectly reasonable, and it's just... weird. Weird and off-putting.
peple give so much shit to riverdale like it isnt based on a comic like its meant to be ridiculous i mean in one comic they turn into mad max and get invaded by bloody predator like its nuts and it knows and embraces it, 13 rw tries to act like its doing something good for the world while being so offensive and dangerous riverdale is harmless and fun this is just disgusting
Riverdale isn't completely harmless (the way it sexualises teen girls is questionable), but at least it doesn't claim to be "educating the youth" like 13rw 😒
Agree I mean I personally don’t like riverdale at all but it’s definitely better than 13RW they try to be all dramatic but also want to be a show that educates about mental health and sexual assault and it’s just so messed up and weird and toxic. I can’t believe there is gonna be another season of this shit
@@TwelvetreeZyes but to be fair the actresses are all 25+ years old, we all know it, and it all feels like a pantomime more than anything else. I find the portrayal of teacher-student romance to be more problematic in that show but even that is so dramatized that it doesn’t even seem realistic enough to get mad at
Nobody:
Ani: .......seecruts
You actually spelled it the way it sounds. 😩😂😂⚰⚰
yo i’m DYING 😭😭💀
It annoys me how in TV every bully is a closeted homophobic homosexual- it's in euphoria too
“He has the storied life of a 60 year old man and he’s only 18.” 😆😆
Also, AmaroTWAT: what an insufferable character
I'm a victim of past sexual abuse, and it's sick, twisted and honestly disgusting how much excuses there are for rapists and sexual offenders. The worst case I know comes from my own mother whose father molested her her entire childhood and since nobody in her family acknowledged the fact or even made him pay the consequences, she coped with it by fawning and falling over herself to please her father, a complete daddy's girl. She completely dissociated the same man that abused her in such a horrendous way for YEARS and painted him as idealized, good man version. I won't deny he did do good things in his life, but the majority of the shit he did was not praise worthy, at all. But this is not an uncommon occurrence. It happens all the damn fucking time. Men in power who everyone knows is a rapist or molester, still in power. Nobody bats a goddamn eye. When they die it's a tragedy. The victims silenced by the ghost of a hero they cannot see. A hero that's a monster. People can be more than one thing. But that's scary, isn't it?
You know that screencap of B99 where the character is yelling, “Cool motive, still murder”
That should be how the show - and everyone tbh - treats rape. Explain, but DO NOT excuse!
not gonna lie, as much as i'm living for your commentary, i'm living even more for the sonny with a chance reference
Me too, "Sonny with a Chance" was my absolute jam as a kid!😁
Ikr Had the biggest crush on Mackenzie lmao
When 13 reasons ends I'm going to purposely get a twitter to tweet that "the evil has been defeated" gif/video at Netflix 2.5 million times.
Sounds like quite the plan, I did the same thing when the final "Fifty Shades" movie was released!🙌
Do “it’s over” from lord of the rings
I pray that they see these videos so they hire new writers and editors.
We'll all be looking forward to it
Monty dying was the most baffling part about this season. It completely contradicts the entire theme of the season - Do bad people deserve redemption/can bad people actually change? Even if it was executed it was pretty obvious that this was the direction they were trying to go with. They show that Bryce was trying to change/become a better person, only for him to die before this was able to happen. They then show that a similarly awful person was also on the path to change and that maybe we should be more accepting of him trying to do this... except he was killed too. It makes absolutely no sense and I have no idea what they were going with when they made this decision.
I hate this show so much but I kept watching just to see what happens, but I could not stomach any more of season three because I could not believe they were going down the “let’s redeem Bryce!” Route. I decided to watch your review instead of finishing it. I’m glad I did. Fuck 13 reasons why
Don’t disrespect Mackenzie Falls like that
Brienne Welch tbh I’d take that over this shit
Secrets has lost meaning. I now imagine some mythical crab like creature that asks riddles.
And his name is Seacrests. Seacrests the crab who tells secrets by the secret shore.
Please do season 4. It’s so comically awful
Final series spoke for itself! 😂😅 Am glad he made video on it though.
she says "secrets" so many times the pronunciation starts to sound abstract, as if she is mentioning a situation we weren't present in
You know how every show there's always that one annoying character that we love to hate and the show would be better off without them? In 13 reasons why, it's all of them.
Except Zach
@@oncetzen3611 yea zach is the best character lol
Patient Ache and kind of Tyler
@@tangosparks1111 no
The aspect ratio changes between past and present bothered me immensely. I felt claustrophobic in the present.
It looks like the writers just go with whatever thing they come up with, after asking theirselves 'what is the weirdest, most ilogical and shocking thing that could happen'
12:24 I was actually very much hoping that Bryce would become the hallucination that sticks with Clay. IMO it would have been a good twist, going from hallucinating the person he loves, to the person he hates, this hugely antagonistic figure grinding him down constantly. Was disappointed they didn't do that.
Exactly!!!! When I saw that scene I was really looking forward to seeing more. But no, they didn't do that.
‘In retrospect we should have given season 2 props for not killing anyone.’ Anyone else notice how underhandedly savage this guy can be sometimes
I cackled out loud when you talked about Tony’s storyline 🤣 “A seasoned life of a 60 year old man and he’s only 18...and ICE is after him now?” I lost it 🤣 I couldn’t finish the first episode of S3 so that was news to me, but still hilarious after knowing all the issues that got stuffed into the show in S2 🤦🏼♀️ Netflix really wants to drain this show for every money-filled drop
They cancel shows like Santa Clarita Diet on a cliffhanger just to let 13 reasons why go on and on when its completely unrelated to anything it started with
Omg I love Santa Clarita Diet I was upset when I found out it got cancelled 😩😡
Bryce being shown as the "good guy" was something that really made me not watch this season. hearing people say he changed, disgusted me.
I was sexually assaulted myself and seeing those things define the characters and the show making bryce an angel and shit, god it pissed me off. Its gross. Not to mention, teenagers dont act like this (usually). It’s so.. what? I find it so stupid
That's terrible that that happened to you, I hope you're doing better!
"It really makes me feel like this whole season is an allegory for xxxtentacion" I can't stop laughing at this; That's it, that's the whole season summed up.
@@gaadrung he is in hell now.
@@3bananas417 u know this how?
James savage for some reason, I agree. But I don’t know why
@@3bananas417 stfu asshole. Only God knows. His heroin addicted ex girlfriend was proven to be a liar and even admitted to it.
@@GirlDo3 right....
Nobody:
Ani: SEA-cret..
"secret" is no longer a real word
Imagine being netflix and choosing 13rw over BOJACK HORSEMAN i'm....!
Well horseman is getting its final season this month
@@courier4289 exactly...
@@courier4289 that's the point durr
Bojack wasn't cancelled, the writers decided the story is over and wanted this season to be the last. So this one really wasn't Netflix's fault. The OA and so many others WERE Netflix's fault though :/
My mom and sis watch 13rw...
Saying "gets back on the horse" about a heroin addict sounds just morbidly funny.
I know i laughed out loud because it seemed unintentional...
@@VioletEmerald I don't know what would be funnier...if he unintentionally did it, or just crafted the best subtle dig at a character I've ever had the pleasure of picking up on.
Betrayal implies that there was trust to begin with.
Winston's alibi for Monty: "I tucked him in"
Im part of the "don't watch the show and wait for spoiler talks" squad
Ani: secrets x ♾
Secrets:
Sea:
Crest:
Ryan Seacrest:
IM A RYAN SEACREST TYPE
*i love this comment wtf-*
25:16 *How is Jessica getting a text from Jessica when there’s only one Jessica?*
Plot twist of season 4, Clay witnessed Monty's murder while in jail.
it genuinely sucks that Netflix pulls the plug on daredevil but 13 reasons why gets a 4th season which is 3 more than it ever needed
they also cancelled the punisher:(
@@nba_strictly_0870 I know but I actually kind of like how season 2 of punisher ended. And while yes I am happy with Daredevil season 3's ending I really wanted more where and they definitely set up a potential season 4 with venessa potentially breaking out Fisk or being behind it.
Their contract with disney ended, both them and disney were not interested in making the show (especially disney) because recently they cancelled all non disneyplus marvel shows and announced them not as a part of the cannon. So we might not get daredevil season 4 or jessica jones season 4.
blame disney, they wanted to start moving their shit to disney+