HOTD S2 - Episode 1 Comes Out SWINGING
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
- A review of House of the Dragon Season 2 episode 1: "A Son for a Son". A good start to the season and the ending with Blood and Cheese is an outstanding and shocking scene that offers what fans loved from Game of Thrones.
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Ideally, I try to post these videos by Tuesday, but I ran into some copyright problems and it took 9 hours to finally figure out what was wrong with the video. Given that TH-cam's copyright detection system can be really weird sometimes.
No worries! We will be waiting for your videos on Tuesday from now on!
F TH-cam
TH-cam really is trying their hardest to make it as difficult as possible for good channels like yours
thank you for mentioning hhelenas on the spectrum - ive read 0 game of thrones books - but from the first season - as someone on the spectrum myself - i KNEW she was too - you can just tell if your on it too, from the way she acts to her parents to the way she c0vers her ears when the velaryion is beheaded and WAY more subtle tells - ive diagnosed my niece before she was tested and confirmed and my friend who had 2 things, both tested and confiremd years later - we just know, we see too many similarirties, then ask ourselves if they are, monitor their actions and speech and can suualy tell within aa sentence or two / scene or two after the suspicion - im so glad you mentioned it - people saying its " bad writing" or even worse "bad acting" are simply idiots imo - ITS LITERALLY PERFECT ACTING - even in the behind the scenes - the helena actor phia is showing signs of something, whether thats autism or something smaller but similar like aspergers idk, but you can tell easily. She nailed it completely and i have huge respect for her
one of the worst takes on the final scene you could have ever produced
and all because you lack of book-knowledge - it was not about seeing a childs head rolling or beeing cut
IT WAS ABOUT THE SENTENCE THEY SAY TO HELENA!!!!!!!
but how can you know - DONT TRY TO TALK ABOUT STUFF YOU DIDNT RED DUDE!!!
you screwed up this whole video
Best scene in the episode was Rhaenyra hugging her son who tried (and fails) not to breakdown.
100 percent. The only thing as close to as emotionally impactful was leper viserys, that's because anyone whose watched their father die can relate.
I didnt care for it. Somehow Rhaenyra and everyone is well able to keep her composure when daddy dies, and her lover and father of her children (Harwin Strong) but baby boy needs to hit hard when she was so dumb herself to send him off on a mission like that solo.
Great scene, I’m glad they didn’t over saturate it with dialogue and just let the performances happen.
@@EbonySeraphimIt's their duty to win over support of the other kingdoms. You don't get support by sending a generic messenger, now do you make much time. It's a reasonable thing to do given the circumstances, and the danger was very low. Really only another dragon could hurt him, so he didn't have any other real dangers, and they didn't think it would happen. That tells you about them, coddling your kids too much also leads to other issues, you need to let them take risks.
Agreed. Great acting from both
Danny and her babies crossed the wall because D&D created that season lul
Dragons kind of forgot that they're scared of the dead.
not a fan of D&D but as far as I know the entire Dragons cant cross the wall thing was written in fire and blood which wasn't out when the episode aired.
Dumb and dumber doesn't deserve to be respected
Not scared, but definitely avoiding the problem. Dragons are of Valyria. The only thing to kill White Walkers is Valyrian Steel. Definitely something in common @@Yuri77711
Also Bran had broken some of the wards beyond the wall from the night kings touch, so I assume the wall’s anti-dragon power was broken by it as well
The dragon over the wall thing was a nod to the book. But yeah they forgot Dany did it, altho technically D&D would be at fault for letting her go over anyway...
Tbf Fire and Blood was written after season 7 so DnD had no way of knowing about this plot thread about the dragons and the wall
Well, I see it as linked to the book canon, not GOT show canon.
I assumed Dany flew the dragons round Eastwatch, not that D&D would have thought of that anyway
I thought of it as retconning the entirety of season 7 and 8
I hate DnD as much as you and others, but let's cut them some slack for Drogon crossing the wall. It was a horrible episode, but in GoT timeline, it is told that magic from the known world and especially from Westeros is gone. So, theoretically, Dany/Drogon crossing the wall is right.
That shot of the camera panning over to the twins' beds was absolutely horrifying.
fr
I watched the scene back and they both had dragon eggs incubating under their beds 🥺
@@J_ads2000 Which was also different from the book. Both twins had young dragons housed in the Dragonpit, while Maelor still had an egg.
It's 180 years. It really isn't crazy for Ned to treat the threat North a little differently. But he never dismisses it either
Well he dismisses the witness who claims seeing the White Walkers as a delusional mad man. Benjen also claims that the deserter was "tough, a true ranger" (although probably primarily saying that to bolster his post-mortem image), but that also indicates he was of sound mind. Then in that scene Ned also scoffs at the idea of White Walkers actually attacking him and deflects to it being the wildlings.
But in general, if the undead threat has had a consistent awareness amongst the Starks for that long, I'm surprised it is essentially done away with in only 180 years.
@@SupercutsDelight It might have varied over time depending on how superstitious each Stark Lord has been and how well those superstitions were passed down post danced. Let's not forget that several Stark lords die in rapid succession after Cregan. I do feel it's plausible that the knowledge might have struggled to be passed down after those events and that they most recent Stark lords might have just been less superstitious than their forefathers.
They still sent Benjen
This. And importantly, this is still a time of dragons. Magical creatures exists. Everyone sees them fly over the city regularly. It’s a lot easier to believe in something like the white walkers when dragons already exist. But when they’ve been dead for two centuries, people will have a harder time believing in other magical creatures like the white walkers.
@@SupercutsDelightyou forgot to blame D&D for the dragon and wall bullshit lol the dragons not wanting to cross the wall was a big point in fire and blood so that’s their fault that’s it’s all messed up now tbh.
You have to remember about Ned, he wasn't raised in the north. He was raised in the Eyrie with Robert. By the time he returned north the rebellion was over and he was alone save for his younger brother who took the black shortly after. It's not unreasonable to say that he didn't learn to fear or respect what was north of the wall like many of his predecessors. Just my take on that.
He was also a second son, let's not forget- Brandon was Lord Rickard's heir - it's possible that much like the Targaryen prophecy/ dream-thing; it was passed directly from lord to heir, & no one expected their deaths to occur so soon, nor to follow one another so rapidly- so even if the matter had survived into the 'present-day' of the near-GoT timeline, there's nothing to say that it wasn't instantly lost with their deaths- after having been successfully continued for generations & centuries...
@@OcarinaSapphr-that’s actually so interesting
@@hayleenicole9326
It's also interesting to think about his late brother Brandon as more than a cliche 'bro'- & the North as something other than isolationist (as we've been conditioned to think), when other information is taken into account; Brandon's ill-fated friend-group, for instance - while it _could_ just be assumed he was the typical young blood- having been free to leave home to wander about after obtaining his majority & make friends where he would -- however, the young men he befriends; they're young lords or sons/ heirs of lords in the North, Riverlands, & Vale- important people, who it would be advantageous for the future Lord Stark to cultivate relationships with (especially in time of strife) -- hell, even Rickard fostering Ned outside of the North has interesting implications -- Barbrey considers Brandon's engagement (& Ned's marriage) a manipulation; his father's 'southron ambitions' having been brought about by his Maester -- but if that's more than - at least, in part - a projection of her jealousy- then what *_other_* reasons does Lord Rickard have to make those choices: His eldest son & heir is betrothed to the daughter of the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands - his second son is fostered in the Vale - his only daughter is betrothed to the young lord of the Stormlands?
Question is: is this entirely unusual, is Barbrey's attitude justified?
We're given the impression from the family tree in 'World of Ice & Fire' that precious few Stark marriages are *not* Northern; much is made of the apparently resented, & possibly ill-fated marriage of Torrhen's daughter to Ronnel Arryn (she may well have died before her husband/ offspring's murder by his younger brother) - but, there are two other things to consider: with the exception of this first post-Conquest match, & Barbrey in the present-day, there are no hints that *any* of the subsequent 5 named non-Northern marriages had engendered _any_ ill-feelings.
*_However_* , we also know next-to-nothing about inter-realm marriages _prior_ to the Conquest, where it's described as a means of the Targaryens (most clearly, Queen Rhaenys, & later, Queen Alysanne) uniting the realms through these cross-realm matches between their subjects. Furthermore, our overall view _is_ limited, because the line's only really clear back to Lord Benjen Stark {before that, it's in bits & pieces, & almost no marriages are shown/ detailed}, who married a fellow Northerner - his two sons also married Northerners; Rickon's only surviving son Cregan, married 3 times- 1 being a non-Northerner^- & he had 4 daughters by her- there's no detail on _their_ marriages, if they indeed married - his sons by his other 2 marriages either died young, or married fellow Northerners~^^ - his only daughter by this final marriage, like her elder half-sisters, also has no details about any marriage made.
- Cregan's youngest son, Brandon eventually became lord- he had 4 children; his son Beron m. Lorra Royce from the Vale - his eldest-surviving son's 2nd wife was a non-Northerner^; of 4 of his 7 children- there are no details - 2 married Northerners; of them: Willam Stark was married twice (the 2nd was non-Northern^), with 3 children between them; his son Edwyle- married a fellow Northerner- & would be the father of Lord Rickard - but his sister, Jocelyn (Great-Aunt of Ned/ Great-Great-Aunt to the Stark kids) married Benedict Royce; the couple had 3 daughters, who married into fellow Vale houses: Waynwood, Templeton, & Corbray - it's these descendants where Cat encourages Robb to look for heirs, in place of Jon.
Both of Artos' sons had children, but no mention of how many, nor who their wives/ partners were- only that there was issue.
The youngest son, Rodrick was the father of Branda & Lyarra (Ned's mother)- the elder daughter, Ned's aunt/ great-aunt to the Stark kids; she married into House Rogers, in the Stormlands- there's no further detail about their descendants, if there are any.
Like with the Targaryens, a la-post-Dance, it seems that there's a knowledge lost to time...
Sorry for what probably seems like a tinfoil ramble, lol!
^Blackwoods were originally Northerners, but were exiled long ago from the North, to the Riverlands- yet the intermarriages over the ages {at least two} imply that there's no hard feelings
~ Two marriages were with House Manderly- though long considered Northern, having been in the North for centuries before the Conquest - they were originally from the Reach - but, like the Northerners, they're a First Men house
^^ There's an odd, incestuous situation that occurs; Cregan's first-born son & heir, Rickon, predeceases his father- *but* he had two daughters before his death - however, these granddaughters (as well as Cregan's daughters by his 2nd marriage) are passed over in favour of Cregan's younger sons by his 3rd marriage... BUT two of his sons go on to marry their half-nieces; Jonnel is married to Sansa's namesake - & Edric is married to the widowed Serena - Jonnel & the elder Sansa have no children, but Serena & Edric do- two of their children, marry into Houses Umber & Cerwyn - though Edric was the elder son, Lordship of Winterfell eventually passes to the youngest son, Brandon- whose 2nd son Beron, eventually becomes Lord.
My spit-balled idea, after reading this was twofold: it was a way of sort of giving Rickon's daughters position {there's no evidence of a Queen Regnant in the North, nor a Ruling Lady of Winterfell- though other women have inherited rule of lesser Northern houses - & keep in mind, Cregan's also lived through the Dance of the Dragons...} & the other thought, that the marriages were some remnant of an ancient First Men custom- as a means of keeping the bloodline of the firstborn son alive in the family.
on the halaena thing: i have no idea who on earth that has seen even clips of the show would expect her to do a big catelyn stark scream. its pretty well established that when bad things happen she withdraws into herself. we see her covering her ears when vaemond gets killed
Exactly. Her not screaming felt natural.
One thing about this episode I find interesting is the fact, if I remember correctly, that Rhaenyra doesn't really speak in this episode. Her only words are "I want Aemond Targaryen". I think it portrays her grief much better than if she had a scene where she explains how sad she is. I don't think it's a top-10 writing achievement, but it is a nice little detail.
Especially her reunion with Jace. The feeling of emptiness created by Luke’s absence is absolutely enhanced by Rhaenyra’s silence.
Jace breaking down, Rhaenyra getting up to go to him as he hesitates before decompressing into her arms. Such a powerful scene.
They had done this before with Daemon on episode 3 of the first season and it worked wonders this time too like it did then. The power of good writing and acting.
I noticed that too
"Aegon never payed any attention to his lessons"--- What ''lessons'' my guy, did you not watch Season 1, Viserys never prepared any of his other kids to rule, it was Rhaenyra and no Plan B.
And he didn’t prepare rhaenyra that well either… anyway I found aegon feeling the need of having jahaerys be present at council so telling on hi personal demon with viserys parenting
He was mostly just hit by everyone for being a horrible person 😂
@@giorgiamoretti6642his first time hearing requests from the people is telling of his upbringing. He wants people to love him. He wants affection so desperately. He wants people to like him, since he felt none of his family ever liked him growing up. He’s willing to give people whatever they want for their facade of love towards him.
I find this channel's commentary to be inaccurate sometimes, misinformed or just superficial.
I like some of his videos, but I always watch like 10 minutes and then watch something else because he never says something that makes me feel like I learned a new piece of information.
@@Winter-Alpha-Omegathat’s actually interesting cuz I feel like I’m learning a lot of new things, but maybe that’s just because I’m a casual 😂
Part of what I liked most of Blood and Cheese was how much it humanized a Targaryen since this is the first time we see someone murder a Targaryens child right in front of their own parent. And instead of screaming and fighting back and painting the room red like say Daenerys or Rhaenyra, Helaena instead simply grabs the other child and runs away with her. I just like how it shows that not every Targaryen is a great warrior and fierce and fiery, and that they actually vary. Something about the contrast is interesting, and I think Helaenas as a character does that in spades as she's the only Targaryen thus far that isn't really a fighter.
There's also the fact that the Greens are now at the same empasse, daughter for heir or crazy raging brother? Which is poetic and ironic
very poetic!
Aegon and Haelena are still young, he could still produce another heir if it came to that. They have time.
@@archiraph1548 that's what Aemma and Viserys thought as well
@@archiraph1548if you know her fate in the books it's irrelevant lol but no I think she is gonna be broken and shattered after this.
I love how they portrayed Aegon this episode. There was a light or innocence in him that made him likeable despite what we know of him. The only time we saw any semblance of anger was when Tyland Lannister was getting annoyed by son. He was trying to be a good king and father but that light in him has surely been snuffed out with son.
He was never redeemable.
@@JoshuaKevinPerrynot redeemable, but layered and nuanced.
The blood and cheese outcome might also be interesting in that either the daughter or aemond may be heir now. If it's the daughter, that might set up conflict between aemond and aegon and it would also be hypocritical considering the prior female heirs were denied
Maelor is still coming.
I dont see Aegon choosing his daughter as heir
@@HK-gm8pe The book doesn't have this problem since there is a younger boy (Maelor) left.
But i think the maker of the show said that he has yet to come in the show.
Idk what they will do if Maelor doesn't come. That creates a whole new dynamc which is weird.
That’s not happening. Aegon would undermine his own claim should he name his daughter the heir.
@@blondymonk1535 Was Maelor in the show? I don’t remember seeing him.
The whole Ned not knowing thing may have an answer.. perhaps its something similar to a secret passed down to an heir. like in house of the dragon season one. But since Ned became Lord of Winterfell unexpectedly following his father and older brothers death, I could see a situation where the actual secrets and true connection of Winterfell to the wall were lost.
Great point actually
This is probably it
This person thinks. Good brain ya got there. I had figured he had just gotten old and jaded and desensitized to killing deserters but that's a much better idea.
3:41, that's the thing, he wasn't given any lessons on ruling. That's why he so eager to teach Jahaerys even though he's too young.
Seems like the stark scene was just an active retcon. This show is trying to be more faithful to book cannon
But, they keep changing stuff from the books here
@@UsiQuotidiani.18 are you talking about Jaehaerys I at the wall and how they mention that Torrhen and Aegon met at the wall aswell instead of at the Inn and the kneeling man? 🤣
@@UsiQuotidiani.18it's almost like the book is misinformation and dishonest retelling from people with agendas. It's even in the book that this is the reality of the situation. Anything that made the blacks look like monsters in the book is very likely to have been at best exaggerated at worst a pure fiction.
@@UsiQuotidiani.18well we have to keep in mind the book was never accurate either as the lore is it was written by maesters with differing views, so the reader never knew what the actual history was for many things
Aegon’s scenes by Tom Glynn-Carney were my favorite! Oh my god, he’s hilarious & his facial expressions & subtle movements are insane. He was the stand out for me because it was so damn unexpected. I really didn’t know he could act this well & now I fully understand why he was casted. Aegon, a character who was an afterthought for me in season 1 has become one of my FAVORITES in season 2. I re-watched the scene of him looking for his son & the small council scene like 10 times! Aegon is not a great person, I know, but something about him is also so wholesome & cute. He has attributes of Viserys (Dany’s brother) & even Joffrey but he’s also very likeable & has a side you can sympathize with.
“The Queen is an enduring mystery” is the funniest line in the show.
I love tom and phias performances! So good i love aegon for his wit
I don't love him because he's a rapist and someone who has done it a lot.
But yeah, at least he's entertaining.
"Wholesome & cute"? 🥴 lol Hes a drunk rapey psycho. I can't wait til some of ya'll see who you're dealing with here.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 I’ve definitely already made that into a meme. It was so good! 😂
The blood and cheese scene is different because heleana is different in the show . I don’t believe she’s a dreamer in the book , in the show heleana had seen the event happen , when she said “I’m scared of the rats “ she looked at her kids cribs. The scene from the books wouldn’t work with this heleana, this is how I see it anyways
The entire book is misinformation written by people with a green leaning agenda. Nothing is "changed" from the book the book is a lie.
You have to remember 172 years had passed between this show and Game of Thrones. That's a very long time. Enough time that there were no longer any dragons at the start of GoT so I'm not really surprised that Ned Stark treats as legend the threat beyond the wall while Cregan was very serious about it.
Yes, magic and evidence of it is mostly gone. What does exist can be attributed to superstition by most.
Nah, the Long Night happened thousands years before, 172 years of difference doesn't really change the perception of it. It was a contrived exposition to remind us in what universe we are.
Plus, I like to think that the HotD writers are crapping on D and D's writing.
@@misabelrodriguez1163 yeah i thought about it. Like the anecdote of Queen Alysane and her dragon that didn't wand to go beyond the wall exists in the book but was completly unecessary in that scene. I really wish it was a comment on season 7 😅
@@nicolasbls1738 it may have been unnecessary but I did laugh hard when it was said. Any dumping on d and ds writing will always get a laugh out of me 😆
The one thing I will say about Blood & Cheese is that the show portrayed them too much as protagonists. I don't say this in a positive sense of "good guy" but in the sense that viewers are placed into the perspective of the protagonist and as a result what they are rooting for is shaped by that perspective - you want Blood & Cheese to succeed. The horrific brutality of their actions is blunted by the fact that it's form their perspective we're operating - we feel less of a connection to the people they are victimising. It would have been helpful to have more POV from Halaena throughout the episode or at least during the Blood & Cheese "hunting sequence" I think to really bring that plot line a point of perfection. But we're talking about 9/10 vs 10/10 here.
If you’re a black supporter you might want blood and cheese to succeed. If you’re not on either side. Or the side of the common folk. You might want peace at all costs. That’s what makes it fun tbh. Your views can determine how you perceive the events that take place.
I don't know anyone that wanted them to succeed tf logic is that
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 nobody is on the side of the common people, be fr
@@welivewelovewelie980 an audience member can be 😂
You brought up a great point and I kinda agree. A 50/50 pov from haelena and blood and cheese would work also, I think. But, I guess that would kill the suspense of who are their target.
Lord Cregan Stark, lecturing the young prince about Duty and Sacrifice for the realm is absolutely amazing.
It is an exposition (for the audience) as well as a much needed counsel for the Targaryens.
It also highlight a stark contrast between the two houses.
I love the fish out of water concept of it. We, the audience know what the starks are about but Jace grew up away from the North. Their customs are even slightly different, sending their own men to the wall which is something Ned never does in the original show
yeah meanwhile Criston and Alicent are searching for duty and sacrifice elsewhere
Something I didn't understand. What was the Lord Stark doing in the wall? Why wasn't he in Winterfell?
@@charlie172011 The show implied that Cregan Stark was visiting the wall at the time of Jace's arrival. The Starks/North had a close relationship with the Wall and the Nights watch, especially in the old days.
A 1000 miles is not that distant for a dragon rider. So the best explanation is Jace first landed in winterfell; Cregan was absent; he then fly to the wall to meet him (as it was important that he secure the alliance). He stayed there for 1 or 2 days. For this reason, he returned to dragonstone after a few days (he missed his brothers funeral).
I am glad that the show took into account the travel time. No more teleportation.
@@chrisr4023 ok that makes sense
EYYYYYYY WE'RE SO FUCKING BACK!!!
HOTD BABY, i cant wait bud
AAAAAAAAAAAAA
HELL YEAH BROTHER
I spent two years waiting for Cheese to say the iconic line “You hear that little boy? Your mama wants you dead”😭😭
And I was hoping to hear Otto’s “you only lost an eye how could you be so blind” to aemond.
Overall episode was good but not great……….
I was kinda sad about how it was done I was mega excited
I think this Helaena only had 2 children and I understand why the show has been reducing the number of children, they are too many. Alicent also should have 4 kids but the show reduced it to 3.
@@youngveteran6368 So, Otto didn't like that Aemond killed Luke either?
Blood and cheese was so toned down it was super disappointing.
Blood & Cheese just come off as halfwits and not necessarily hyper cruel like the book scene. They were purely there for the money
They were still cruel, kicking a dog and cutting an infants head off. I never thought of them as competent in the books. Just hired thugs.
But who recounted the events in the book? Mushroom did, who has been proven to be an unreliable narrator.
He wasn’t present when it happened so he could’ve filled in the blanks as he wanted to.
The fact that it was actually a mission gone incredibly wrong will only increase the consequences, which is going to be so exciting to watch
Blood and Cheese and their actions would've only been seen by the Greens. And then probably exaggerated with every retelling. Until it got to Gildayn who wrote Fire and Blood, they and the Blacks were made to be as evil as possible.
are you being serious?? the cut off a childs head!
@@lewis0705raises a question as to what daemon said
10:21 It is also more thematically relevant for her to not scream. You can literally the inner turmoil & distress in her eyes even without outstanding facial expressions. She's shocked and in panic-defense mode, until the very end, you can tell she wasn't herself, but that's the sad part : When you're in a nightmare, this is usually the parents that wakes you up from a dream but what happens when the parents are not there......which is tragically symbolic for her.
Your points with the wall are understandable, but:
1st: the sragon thing is from the books, so D&D are to blame for that.
2nd: I don't think it's weird, that the reputation of the wall changes so much in such a short time. I study politics and orientalism with focus at the history, and damn, people forget what happened 20 or 30 years ago and lose focus completely. Sad, but our history shows us everyday how arrogant we can be and how much stuff we can forget as society in a short time
This. I don't think it's unreasonable that the fear of the white walkers diminished in the in the 172 years between the two series. We as humans can only maintain a heightened state of readiness for so long. With no clear threat I can absolutely see the Starks becoming lax in watching for the threat from beyond the wall.
People but not nobility
And the dragon thing is really just a myth. I havent read the books but I assume there are no one doing experiments with dragons riding them up to the wall, putting the claim through the scientific method.
I thought this episode was amazing. To me it doesn’t matter if the adaptation isn’t an exact one to one, as long as it is still good. You need to add things, take stuff out and merge things together in order to adapt books to tv shows and movies and I think for people to say that they “fumbled” or “botched” this plot point is a huge exaggeration. The acting was amazing, the music was amazing, the dialogue was amazing, and it still accomplishes the same goal as it did in the books and it did a phenomenal job at it. A dead kid, a scarred queen and the end of the War of Ravens and Start to Dance of Dragons
I thought it was amazing too. BUT I'm also very aware that GoT started off with minor changes and cut characters even from season 1 that snowballed. When book people were flagging stuff back then, I dismissed it as not a big deal until it was season 7 and it turned out they were right. Sometimes writers make what they think are minor changes they don't think are important but then they get seasons down the line and realise they needed that small thing now to make the plot work and don't have it.
Hoping that's not gonna be the case here and will keep watching but I fully understand and welcome the concerns.
Not really the core of the most important scene of the season was ruined. The Blood and Cheese scene was pathetic and disastrous and missed the whole point of what the scene was suposed to be.
@@masterplokoon8803how can you possibly now what "the most important scene of the season" will be after only one episode? lol
@@vinogr00nko93 because I know the story. The deaths of Luke and Jahaerys are the most important scenes that completely change the nature of the story.
@@masterplokoon8803 you know the story of the books, you don't know the story of the show, it established that it's not afraid of changing stuff and considering that the rest of the book is essentially just battle after battle it fair to assume even more changes are to come
if you watch the inside the episode, ryan does mention that they weren’t able to shoot such a graphic scene involving young children due to legal constraints
Well I think hearing it and watching Halena's reaction was enough, she played it really well, I like it more and more seeing it in reviews over again.
There's not a single f*cking guard within the 10 miles of Queens chamber? Realistic.
At first I gotta admit, that I was a bit disappointed of Blood and Cheese, but that was my and many other people's fault for expecting a Red Wedding level scene and that was not ever going to happen. There a few really good points about the scene:
1. Phia Saban play the part of the neurodivergent character greatly. Her reactions are perfectly in character for someone on the spectrum. She shuts down and is overwhelmed by everything and still tries to function for Jaehaera. Her performance gives me Freddie Highmore vibes a bit, eventhough the latter had a lot more seasons to play and flesh out Shaun Murphy comparing to Phia and Helaena.
2. The sound design is horrific, which makes it good. The sound of Jaehaerys being beheaded by a mere knife and the "metal against bone" part from the subtitles really are gruesome.
3. It was more brutal towards Jaehaerys than towards Helaena. While in the books Helaena has to choose between two sons and her being scarred from that encounter, in the show it's Jaehaerys. He got cleanly beheaded in the books, making his death quick and rather "merciful", if you could even call it that. In the show however he simply got his throat cut and that does not mean you instantly die, but rather you live on for moments and minutes and he felt while those two disgusting men beheaded him slowly with a knife.
4. Someone in the comments (cannot find their name, sorry) also pointed out how it'll cause a succession dispute among the Greens with only Jaehaera being alive as Aegon's child. Will they follow their precedent and choose Aemond as the next male monarch or will they choose Jaehaera and be total hypocrites and weaken their claim even more?
Yet there also some nitpicks for me.
1. There was no Alicent. With only Helaena there, the scene cannot be as emotional as it should be, since show Helaena does not have the emotional range of book Helaena. Alicent would've been a nice contrast to that. And besides we could've used less of the butchering of her character on the show with her being in bed with Criston 50% of her screen time.
2. One or two more scenes with Jaehaerys would've been nice to make the loss of him more painful and tragic. As it is now he's just a random ass kid who didn't get the pony ride on Tyland.
That scene when Rhaenerya finally returns to the council after grieving her son the camera panning from her to the fires on the table as she’s being announced, and then her acting is incredible! “I want Aemond Targaryen” she’s so filled with grief and rage she can hardly get the words out! Then she just walks off like a boss! 10/10 🔥🔥 hands down best scene of the episode
I mean it was average.
I really appreciate the small arc that Aegon has. During his coronation in S1 you can clearly see that he is amazed by the common folk's cheering him on. I felt like this was the first moment he really felt loved. So him being kinder, some may say naive, with the common folk and trying to bring Jaehaerys along to the council was kinda nice. So his rampage from now on will be better substantiated.
Been waiting for the video since the episode came out, love the content 💥
“Helena’s” acting was spectacular. Makes sense for her character
I would love it if they used different styles for the intro every season. Would love to see how creative they can get
Really loved Tom Glynn-Carney's performance this episode. You really said it best when you compared Aegon to a bratty frat boy. That's basically what he is and Tom is owning it. Very excited for the coming episodes!
Been waiting for this review with bated breath - delivered thorough and insightful observations as always
Ive said this in another video~ HotD is not a GoT prequel~ Its abook prequel. Im fairly sure of this by now. They already changed so many things that the later seasons screwed up.
As much as I love it when you destroy bad TV, I also really enjoy it when you give credit to well written content. This ep was great even knowing Aegon's son was gonna die beforehand. I thought they did blood and cheese super well and do not understand why people are so pissy about it. Keep up the great work!
The death of Jeahearys was good, but B&C themselves and the way they act especially with helaena and the over all choice was much worse in the books and way more terrifying.
@@lucasbelmonte2832 I hear you! I have not read the last three books but I remember when I watched that GOT animated video summary of the Dance of Dragons and being horror-stricken at how they made Helena choose. What I liked about the show's version was that blood and cheese had recognizable human aspects and their actions emphasized that they were not in control of the situation and had to react in the moment. Like I thought it was quality when cheese suddenly could tell Helena couldnt lie because they are both not fully sane (I mean he spends his days in dungeons catching rats)
i like the change to blood and cheese in the fact that it puts Aegon in the same position as Viserys in S1 E1 where he has to choose between a daughter and brother as his heir.
I also love Jace in this episode in how he tried and failed to not break down when delivering Rhenerya the news.
hopefully, Jace goes back up to Winterfell at some point, as it would be a waste to bring back Winterfell sets and only use them for one small portion of the season. also I'm pretty sure Cregan offers a much larger army to Jace in the books and you also have the whole Pact of Ice and Fire.
would be cool to have Jace and Craegan fight some Whitewalkers as why would you hype them up and not do anything with it in the show.
Was waiting for your video all week 😂 we are back ❤️🔥
I honestly think they did a great job executing Blood & Cheese (I’ve read Fire and Blood) for what they were already given. Plus the idea of showing a CHILD getting beheaded is horrifying and no one wants to see that 😅 even though the showrunners did clarify Daemons intention if they couldn’t find Aemond, I think it leaves us with questions of uncertainty with how Daemon could have responded to that
I've never seen a set up episode with so much layers and 4d chess being shown its fantastic.
The thing about Ned Stark is that he was not supposed to be lord of Winterfell. He was a second son. So, is possible that the knowledge of the White Walkers and the pact with the Targaryens was lost to Ned when his father and brother died.
Everything "inconsitstent" you critizize at the beginning stems from the differences between books and show. HotD is based on the books, the show diverged from the books. It's mentioned in Fire and Blood that dragons can't cross the wall.
Great review man! You pointed a lot of points that people were Missing and that was pissing me off
What exactly?
There sure is a whole lot of complaining about Ryan’s tv adaptation changes even though GRRM has been upgraded to co-show runner alongside him. I think that honestly explains the greater focus on book references and light retcons.
Plus, the “history book” this show is based on isn’t even fully reliable by nature so anyone complaining about the execution is ironically upset about events that likely didn’t happen the way they wanted it interpreted anyways. Other character’s interpretations of what is happening without actually witnessing them are exactly what makes everything so interesting.
As a fan of the book, the epiosode was fantastic and brilliantly done. Every scene was important and pacing was good. B and C was also dripping with tension.
I saw the beginning differently:
The opening scene between Jace and Cregan can be seen as two children trying to do adult things, not just two young actors being wooden.
And the scenes with Aegon taking petitions I saw it as the writers trying to make him seem like a morally grey character where he is bloodthirsty when it comes to Rhaenyra, but soft and caring for the small folk.
Anyone complaining that they didn’t get to see the beheading of a child is psychopathic and need to be studied lmao
I am just confused apparently it was huge moment in the books. For me it was just kid i saw for few seconds dying offscreen and why should i care same with her mother i forgot she was even in the show
We're back when Supercuts posts a HOTD video!
waiting for your video since I watched the episode!
Sir Criston Cole is the real winner.
Sir Criston Cuck*
I liked the TV version of blood and cheese because it felt more urgent and ominous than it would have if they'd engaged in more back-and-forth dialogue with Helaena. Also plays into the 'unreliable narrator' theme GRRM likes to employ with his historians. It would make perfect sense that the event was embellished over time.
Been Waiting for your episode recaps!!! Our watch has truly ended boiis
her moment of hesitation of "who do i run to and tell, who do i feel the most safe with??" and her choosing her mom over running to Aegon was really sweet and sad at the same time
The theme is iconic can’t change it
Finally a decent, moderate review taking the episode as a different medium from the book yet being able to praise both. Wonderful!
Blood and cheese was good, people are overreacting
Just not as good as it was in the book.. it wasn’t bad but they missed out on having more emotional stakes
the book version would've been way to much for TV. B&C even threaten to sa Heleana's daughter.
@@firstlast9846 I think that's cuz they crammed all of the build up to the dance into 10 episodes. we barely got to know Heleana, and her son even less.
Ah yes no guards any where having helanea walk in on her mother having s3x like it’s a comedy truly the best adaption ever
In the book Alicent hightower is an eye witness, i think its alot more powerful in the show. The book seems a little too much for characters we havnt had time to get emotionally attached to. Like shock value for the sake of shco. Im thrilled with the scene from the show
I would say the episode DIDN'T COME OUT SWINGING.
from the Book:"Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince
Jaehaerys, striking off the boy’s head with a single blow."
Great video bro👍🏾
As a reader, for me the problem isn't that there's no violence shown on-screen, it's the omission of Maelor and also that Alicent is present aswell. Nonetheless the scene was great and the narrative consquences are basically the same, only in the books is way stronger as it adds another layer to Helaena's drama of choosing to kill one son over the other
holy shit we are so back
Cant believe people are complaining that they didnt get to see a child's head getting cut off. Wtf?
There are only few shows that can have an episode of mostly just people talking and still be this captivating.... Action scenes in this show are just a cherry on top of a well done cake
that's exactly what game of thrones had at the beginning, based on books that are mostly talking, and didn't have budget for epic action scenes so even battles from the books had to be cut
later seasons lost that aspect, got more budget and startet doing more actions scenes instead of you know, character work
@@vinogr00nko93 also those subtle movements and action of the characters for example when alicent and christon walked in the small counsel and otto noticed them
"explode the child out of the bed?" I could not stop laughing at this 🤣
I'd say between this episode and Laenor's fate they may be tipping the scales too fare onto Rhaenyra's side. They've removed her direct responsibility for the child's death by several levels. She wanted Aemond's death. He's a combatant and legitimate war target. She never actually says "hire an assassin". Daemon hires the assassins and then either told them to kill another prince if they couldn't get to Aemond or at least left it vague enough. It seems unlikely these two could have killed Aemond unless they found him sleeping, so I'd guess Daemon knew the boy would die most likely.
Well, we also get that from the Greens as well. Allison genuinely believed Viserys wanted Aegon on the throne but was always firmly against killing Rhaenyra and her family, and Aemond killing Luke was an accident. Plus, Rhaenyra may have said to go for Aemond, but she still left it in the hands of Daemond, which should never have been the case. At the end of the day, the blacks are still responsible for what happened, just like Aemond is still responsible for Luke’s death.
" So this alternative version of Blood and Cheese, still achieves.. " holy bars 💯🔥🔥🔥
Damn it’s good to be back!
Glad to hear your take on B&C and have to agree, especially after visiting the HOTD subreddit the past few days.
Great scene, stellar acting by Phia Saban (just look at her acting with her eyes throughout the conflict!!!) and ovall very solid episode. So hyped to have you and HOTD back!
I shall now commence in the traditional dance of my people; hitting the Targaryen griddy
The embroidery that shows the dance of the dragons in the intro could be a an Easter egg itself
Since Helaena is often seen embroidering, and being a Dreamer some of her prophecies could probably influence her embroidery.
Younger Heleana said”Hand turn loom, Spool of green, Spool of black, Dragons of flesh, Weaving dragons of thread…”
that kinda could be a nod to the Moirai(the Fates) from Greek mythology, three sisters that are the personifications of destiny
‘The Fates shape the destiny of each human, often expressed in textile metaphors such as spinning fibers into yarn, or weaving threads on a loom.’
_what do you want them to do, explode the kids head_
No, NO, emphasis the emotional damage it does, it was totally downplayed with Alicent fucking Cole. You got this moment so wrong
Never thought I'd hear someone describe the sound of a child's head being cut off as "satisfactory", good lord! 🤣
But yes, I agree this was handled more than well. And I'd ask those shouting and wanting the book version on screen 1:1 whether that includes what's supposed to happen to Jaehaera as well (not that it makes too much of a difference at this point but she appears to be even younger in the show).
The actual Death of Jaehearys was good, it was blood and cheese themselves they fumbles. They act more like the burglars from home alone then the sadistic killers they are in the books. Also because Maelor was cut we dont get the devastating choice that later leads to Helaenas suicide as well as the famous "You hear that little boy? Your mama wants you dead" line. Helaena also offering a necklace instead of her own life was a weird change.
As someone who did not read the books it felt really random that they kill a different son after daemon gives them the objective to specifically kill aemond.
It also seemed very easy to asssassinate someone that important. Like daemon just goes up to some guy he heard about and even sends in some random other guy and they can just pass through all of the halls? Also the queen couldve screamed after leaving the room since i imagine there would be guards around the queens quarters right?
Not really random since they ask Daemon what they should do if they don't find Aemond and he smirks at them before cutting away. And I don't think she would've screamed, there's no guarantee that they won't get to her before the guards plus she is on the spectrum and is set up to be a very timid and quiet person since the first season
@@TilDrill You have to remembered that Daemon is loved by the gold cloaks, they are still secretly loyal to him and that will be proven later and blood is a gold cloak, also cheese is a rat catcher and Daemon offered him life changing money. They could pass through the castle because people believe them to be ratch catchers, you even see cheese earlier on in the episode catching rats in the red keep. Helaena is special, she is obviously on the spectrum and quite slow and its very obvious her mind just stopped working and the she goes into little girl mode and goes to find mommy.
it is heavily implied that it was Daemon's suggestion before the cutaway, pretty sure the next episode will elaborate on it
@@TilDrillDaemon was the City Commander and still had some guys faithful to him in the city watch who happened to know the rat catcher. And no, there would be no guards around. I would guess this is because Alicent was screwing Cole, so Alicent must have had all the guards removed from around, which is also the reason why Blood and Cheese didnt stumble upon any guards on their way. So, indirectly, Alicent fu#king cole killed her grandson
there's also the problem of maegor's holdfast being completely empty of guards and the change of location from the books(in f&b it happened in the tower of the hand where helaena was visiting alicent with her kids), and it made more sense. like we're just supposed to believe that the queen's chambers in the highest level of the red keep is not guarded AT ALL? and as she leaves and heads towards alicent's room there isn't a single person?
I’m GLAD they changed the intro though! I don’t believe they’ll be changing it every season like you said, the first one was just bad and confusing to understand. It gave me a headache trying to break it down. That’s why I think they changed it. The new one is SO MUCH better and you can actually follow what the hell is happening.
I'm from the book community. I do not think Ryan Condal "fumbled" the scene.
I think the characters on the show are not 1:1 recreations of the characters from the book. Their response to events are bound to differ.
For instance, you can tell Helaena saw this coming at least the Jaehaerys part of it...
Alicent is much younger on the show, and is overall a different person from her book counterpart.
So...
I think for the characters on the show, this was actually handled very well. It was appropriate for them.
Changing the episode opening every season is actually pretty cool. It's always fun when a show does it. The THEME is what they should have gotten rid of. I wanted a more war-toned Targaryen theme.
I love how they changed the intro, almost signifies the change after Venerises Death. But gonna have to respectfully disagree, the theme slaps and its just so "game of thrones" to me. A war toned targerian theme might be cool for a season finally tho
I am not a book reader but felt the scene was done great. Even Helaena’s reaction seemed on par for her personality in the show this far. It was actually moving though she didn’t do the typically wailing that we’d expect in that type of moment.
People constantly forget the Fire and Blood book is unreliable. Blood and Cheese were only witnessed by Alicent and Helaena. Their actions were probably exaggerated as they spread among the greens and when they got to Gildayn A CENTURY LATER Daemon was already portrayed as an absolute child-killing monster.
It's pretty widely accepted by the fandom how blood and cheese was , changing it this much was just rushing the story
Yeah, but in the book it carries gravitas, while in the show it was more like " That was a shit show." Feeling. Worst change ever made to a Martin story and that is saying a lot. Probably only compared to Sansa getting raped.
"The book is unreliable!"
Oh shut up. So what? Is the show supposed to be "What really happened?"
If so... what happened to Maelor? Did history literally just make up a fake targaryen?
People also forget, Fire and Blood was BIASED TOWARDS THE GREENS. Hence why you never hear anything bad about Aegon II, and why Rhaenyra is known as Maegor with teats
@@invidatauro8922dude. Relax.
I don’t get the freak out over B&C , like the whole point is that the book is unreliable narration . Plus they made changes in season 1 and no one said anything about it , so why is this any different?? I thought the scene had a lot of tension and was very effective.
It was great, but going with the book and making her choose one just to kill the other in stead, would have made it better I think. Obviously the fact they didn't show the gore was a good call. Nobody needs to see that.
This “unreliable narrator” bs has to stop, literally every time this is the go to excuse for poor scene execution
First it was aegon coronation, then the battle above ship breaker bay and now it’s B&C and the fandom are just too stupid to see it because “well it’s not GoT season 8 bad🤷🏾♂️” , this is how GoT ended the way it did everyone going along because well at least it’s not that bad until it became THAT BAD
Btw there were complaints from season one but they were so minor and it was their first season so we said “let ‘em cook” but now they are changing too much that’s supposed to set future plots in motion but it’s not a big enough problem until it becomes one for the ASOIAF fandom
@@JohnnythefirstI don’t think they were legally allowed to show it. Pretty sure there are laws about showing child deaths on TV
@@youngveteran6368 I agree straying too far from the og story is a problem. However , I think the plot points that come from blood and cheese still will workout fine based on the scene that was presented to us.
WOOHOO I’m so glad these are back. I hope all the subscribers that left bc of the hacking earlier in the year return swiftly 🐉
A nice video essay on the subject. Well thought out, well paced. And no audio or visual gimmicks, which seem to plague so many other reviewers' channels.
One suggestion: Try to lose the upspeak.
I like how people are disappointed that they didn't show a child's head being suddenly chopped off like Vaemond in season 1. Also in the book Maelor is only 2 so had he actually grew up I doubt he would have remembered it
YES, people really overestimate the idea of some trauma placed on the kid, he's like 3, he cannot possibly comprehend what happened (also he dies like half a year later but that's off the point)
The book version is definitely better but i do think this version works for the show. Especially since we actually don't know what kinds of limitations the writers had been given when it comes to a very violent and traumatizing scene involving children. But I do still have some nitpicks with the show. I go back and forth on the writers trying to go the route of having the fams choose between the greens and blacks on one hand I don't like the way they are changing some stuff from the books like Daemon killing his first wife when she actually died infront of a lot of people. Or all the changes they added to some of the things team green do to make them more sympathetic. BUT I do think the route could work but for some reason its like they won't commit 100% to making Team Green more likeable like last season Aegon is made out to be clearly like the WORST person. He assaults his female staff, he bets and watches child fighting rings some of which have his own children participating, he is an alcoholic, and he doesn't seem to care about his wive at all. Then there is removing Daeron from being apart of seemingly the first 2 seasons. If you want to make the Greens more sympathetic then you could have easily avoided making Aegon a terrible person making him more of a tragic character having him kinda forced/pursuaded into being this puppet for the Hightowers. And you could have actually included the one character that from my limited knowledge of later half of the Dance is known to be the more Honorable of the Greens give him a few scenes that have him be the angel on Aegons shoulder vs Aemond being the devil. Even if Daeron is only communicating through Raven sent letters. Even maybe showing Daeron be upset his family is actually usurping the Throne gojng as far as not supporting them until after Blood & Cheese occurs.
I actually loved Lord Cregan. That actor’s voice is so buttery but so hardened at the same time
1. Aegon is unused to ruling because viserys never gave him the attention, that's why he wants to teach Jaeherys 2. Aegon made arguably a literal good political decision to pay Hugh and the blacksmiths, building trust and ensuring weapons are built for the war 👍🏻
Honestly, I find it odd that the TV show still portrays Aegon II as an usurper, when he actually had a valid and legitimate claim to succeed his father. The Great Council had made clear that only men, and from male-line descent, could inherit the throne. Viserys pushing his daughter (without a Great Council to back him) was clearly illegal, but the nobles were either weak or afraid to call him on that. The TV show should portray both sides as claiming legitimacy and having valid points, instead of Aegon II being treated as a mere usurper.
Exactly, especially since in the show it's so blatantly obvious her children are bastards. We can believe whatever we want about the morality of the laws but they're still the laws. And under the law aegon is 100% justified
I know, I don’t understand why the writers constantly have to change Martin outlines, there are so few elements to follow here
illegal by what exact standars? Who wrote the objectively correct law that shall never be changed? Was the Great Cauncil merrited by a law or is it just a situation all law to uphold the patriarchy?
If one king has the power to suddenly call upon a Great Council to decide the fate of an individual succesion then why should a different king not have the power not have the power to choose his own heir
Laws is a human-made concept, holding on to one fictional law and ignoring a new one because the first one upholds the patriarchy is well... very telling
@@UsiQuotidiani.18isn't that precisely why they change the outlines? The book is not a novel, just a short describtion of the war, if you want to make an actual drama out of it, changes need to be made, if you want the original story you can... you know, read the book?
@@vinogr00nko93 When liberals watch a series with an agenda in mind.
No one cares.
Don't see the reason for hating the change up helaynas choice. Like its a really interesting one in the book. But changing it to be the choices between a Son or a Daughter has just as many implications to it that makes it a great scene IMO
12:19 exactly! If you know what's coming, this scene maybe doesn't hold much weight. But if you don't know, then you're like "Aemond, buddy, they are coming for you. Watch out!"
The books actually do confirm what he said, though. Dragons wouldn't cross the wall. GoT-original just left out that fact to tell the story they wanted to tell. It wasn't book accurate.
Im so fkin sick of people complaining. This episode was fuckin incredible, truly great.
ah yes skipping over the greens reaction to Lukes death random alicent and cole s3x scene blood and cheese being reduced to a comedy such an amazing episode
@@-_-ligma
“Reduced to comedy” ah yes, child murder is comedy to you, what a revelation of your character.
@@-_-ligma if thats how you feel, go back to watching GOT seasons 6-8. enjoy Dumb and Dumber's asinine writing
@@mmtgangsta91 what does the criticism have to do with Game of Thrones season 6-8 when are you guys gonna realize that this show doesn’t touch the first few seasons of Game of Thrones and it never will
@@mmtgangsta91 His complaints are all legitimate. God and read blood and cheese from the book and tell me the show did it well.
Really good start, rhaenyra scenes were especially heartbreaking.
BEEN WAITING FOR MY BOYS COMMENTATING
Thank you. People are so caught up in complaining that the scene isn’t amazing that they’re forgetting to ask themselves if it’s good. Which, it is. And that’s what’s most important.
book fans: This episode sucks in the book it was way more gruesome
Everyone else: "rolls eyes"
Its the horror element that was missing. It shoudlnt have followed only blood and cheese through the castle, it should have split between them and Helaena getting her children ready for bed, they also should have made cheese more cruel and deranged like in the book.
@@lucasbelmonte2832 i think killing a child in front of their mother is quite cruel tbh
@@joshuajohnso8671 But it’s how blood and choose treat her that made the moment so horrible. Threading to rape your 4 year old daughter if you don’t chose, you chose one son to die and then the other is killed and your remaining son lives with the knowledge you chose for him to die. That’s way more horrible and better then what we got.
@@lucasbelmonte2832 the moment is still horrible without having to be over the top mushroomesque i think the only real problem is not how cruel it is but that there were absolutely no guards in the whole keep
@@joshuajohnso8671 There was also no horror. It’s actually quite goofy, from the way B&C stumble around the red keep to Helaena walking in on her mom banging her guard which just killed all the tension.
as a book reader, I really liked how they adapted B&C. by making Heleana save her daughter over her son, it puts Aegon in the same position as Viserys in the pilot. he either makes his brother heir, or makes a woman the heir!!
They still kill the scene
The symmetry achieved isn´t nearly enough to replace the original. I could excuse omitting the usage of Alicent as a trap and even not making Helena other watch the act, but removing Maekar and making the kids asleep while the choice is made is a terrible decision and disappoints greately. And I didn´t even read the source material.
Nothing like a GOT related video from GreatClips
"It would be disappointing if they used the same theme for every spinoff show" - No. It would not. It's that iconic.
Pause on the Blood & Cheese strawman. I'm seeing so many people who are defending this scene's poor writing/adaptation, saying that those of us who are rightly criticizing it want to see some graphic execution. *Total nonsense. No one is saying they want to watch kids beheaded.*
What was originally written could ABSOLUTELY have been done tastefully. The first problem is the writing of Cheese. And Daemon sending only two people, (one of whom is a coward), to kill Aemon. Daemon wouldn't be that stupid. And no one like Cheese would ever, in a million years, agree to do it. Simple solution... Write Cheese less cowardly. And write Daemon's plan to be less idiotic.
Next we have the scene with Helena. First, I want to give the writers and showrunners some credit. I love that they not only gave her the sight, but they also gave her intense mental illness. So that when she starts to talk about the visions, none of the characters around her recognize them as prescience. But the audience does. And that contrast is fantastic. It builds suspense and tension. Like watching a horror movie, yelling at the screen, telling them not to go into the house.
The earlier scene with Helena was perfect in that regard. When she expresses that she's afraid of rats and not the fire-breathing dragons coming to kill them. And they just think she's crazy. Brilliant. But that also set up an opportunity for the writers to knock it out of the park later. And they absolutely whiffed it. What they COULD have done, was use Helena's visions, and her FEAR of being forced to choose between her children, to have her accidentally put the whole idea in THEIR heads. They just want to find Aaemon. They weren't even thinking about giving her a Sophie's choice. But she starts begging them not to make her choose. Her nightmare and worst fear in the world. Which would perfectly inspire a psychopathic Blood AND Cheese. Not the coward Cheese who clearly would have never been there. Unless he was 100% forced to go. Like a normal rat catcher who had his wife and children taken hostage. And the only was he can get them back is to lead Blood through the castle. Make it make sense, one way or another.
So they squandered their own set-up. But even without that... Here is who the scene frankly insults. Mothers everywhere. Literally everywhere. Mothers are hard wired to do ANYTHING to save their own children. Including sacrificing themselves to save them. Her IMMEDIATE compliance and silence, without any sort of plea to spare her innocent children... THAT IS JUST RIDICULOUS. As any mother outside of prison will tell you. Ridiculous and absolutely unrealistic. They don't beat her. No restraints. They dont present both kids to her to pick one to prevent both deaths. And that doesn't mean they need to be graphic. You can cut away the camera when the moment arises. But the point is, no mom would ever give up so easily. ESPECIALLY with a castle full of guards within earshot. Ridiculous. Make it make sense.
And another thing I've seen people saying to strawman a non-existent argument. That it doesn't matter because it doesn't change anything important in the story. As if anyone said it did. This scene is not a means to an end. It is a brilliant moment of writing in the original story. And the second most anticipated moment in the entire story.
What about next season? When the big "D vs A" showdown happens? And it turns out that their dragons really just had an accidental mid-air collision? And while falling to their death, "A" accidentally landed on "D's" sword? Right through the eye. So it's not an epic, cathartic battle for the ages. It was just an oopsie daisy that started a myth about two legends fighting on dragonback. How would that feel? And when you complained that it was a poor adaptation, and we said "omg why must everything be a swordfighting superbowl with you people? You just want to see someone shove a sword through someone's eyeball. Why are you so morbid? What's wrong with you?" Because that's exactly what you are doing now. And it's disingenuous and silly.
When you say that we "just want to see Helena scream", what we actually want is for Helena to act like it was actually her child who was killed. The way this scene was portrayed, it's as if she tricked them into killing her cousin that was staying over for the night. If men were killing a mother's child, that mother is going to fight and kick and scream. No matter how they were warned not to do so. It's absolutely hard wired in women. And there has been nothing shown about Helena to suggest she wouldn't be wired the exact same way. Nothing about season one to suggest she wouldn't do anything to save her children. Which, again, is why the Sophie's choice is so crucial.
Not until she is restrained, and both her kids have 3 seconds to live, is she forced to do an impossible thing to save one. Anything less is an insult to motherhood. And three hundred million years of evolution. Similarly, once the deed is done, that is where you have a mother who is completely broken by the horror and trauma. Someone who should be screaming. Even, and especially, a silent scream. Where the terror is so overwhelming that she makes no sound. But is completely overtaken by this living nightmare. The kind of silent scream you wake up from actually screaming. And scaring the shit out of your partner beside you.
I dont know who is writing this shit, but it's not a mother. This character has to be overwhelmed with guilt, and so grief stricken, that she jumps from the tower. Her being tricked into picking one child before the other is executed, makes it impossible to see her surviving child. The child she chose to die. But the Helena who never put up a fight. Who was "too autistic" to do anything but immediately comply, would be "too autistic" to jump. Too disconnected from her own life to feel the guilt. Too dissociated to be reminded of that trauma. And maybe they'll write that better than they wrote this. But it doesn't balance out on paper.
So how did we get here? Why would the writers and showrunners approve this drastic change to such an anticipated scene? My guess is they brought in some authenticity coordinator for autism. Even though no one like Helena exists in real life. No one is having visions of the future. And so this hypothetical coordinator could have emphasized the autism without knowing anything else about the character or the world she lives in. They emphasized the autism to demonstrate their own worth. Erasing the actual brilliance of the work that the entire endeavor is based upon. That's the sort of silly thing I come to expect from Hollywood today. But either way, it's a tale as old as time called "too many cooks in the kitchen."
Please don't strawman the fan base. This was a bad adaptation. Objectively bad. The original was objectively good writing. That's why people have been talking about this scene for many years, even before Fire and Blood came out. We ordered a cake. Not the plastic cake from the display case. We ask only for the minimum. This was less than the minimum. It's not a big deal. The show isn't some mind-blowing saga we've all been waiting for. But that means they better get it right where it counts. And that scene counts. So... Boo, I say.
............BOO! 👎
💯💯💯!! It better be explained why she immediately pointed to her son! That's the worst of it! Nonsensical and people call it "great." Bollocks!!