Rhaenyra the Cruel - Dragon Time with Schwift and Glidus (House of the Dragon S2E02)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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FECKLESS
🥁BEHOLD THE WORKS OF GLAENYRA THE SCHWRUEL 🥁
sorry we're late this week, intention is to get these out the same day each episode airs.
this week's was belayed by other projects, its sheer length, and youtube copyright shenanigans - the full cut was published on nebula and patreon over two days before this version.
so yeah it's pretty cool to have platforms where youtube's systems aren't a hindrance to productivity.
if i were to attempt to put THE FAKE JON SNOW on youtube in full, it would drive me completely insane, probably take more than double the time it took to produce the video itself, and it would be a mangled and borderline unwatchaeble mess.
fortunately you can watch that, and our full HOTD discussions at go.nebula.tv/glidus for as little as $2.50 per month. ty for doing a spons mr nebula ✨
this video is available in full: nebula.tv/videos/altschwiftx-schwift-and-glidus-discuss-hotd-s2e02?ref=glidus
THE FAKE JON SNOW: nebula.tv/videos/altschwiftx-the-fake-jon-snow?ref=glidus
this is all bonus content that was never going to be published on youtube in the first place.
Gligar I’m kinda of broke this paycheck so how much time is the $2.50/month option on Nebula going to be available?
I still really hope you gonna release those videos on TH-cam in the future.
i think this episode was better than a glon for a schlon
When are you going to finish your telltale series?
Would it be possible to also get this edited down version on Nebula as well? Would love to be able to watch there to avoid the TH-cam ads
"this is either fanservice or schizophrenia" is the perfect description of knowing asoiaf lore while watching HOTD
I've learned through chatting with normal people online about this show that we all sound kind of crazy and unhinged. The amount of radio silence and confusion I get when I mention the theory that Larys is actually warging the rats and communing with the weirwood net makes me rethink my social skills.
@@jessjess23brooks89"And, and and..." *Cackles* "Get this! The Maesters are controlling everything! They killed the dragons! The caused Robert's rebellion! It's been them all long!"
"Why...hey come back! I'm not done!"
Whats asoiaf? Im german 😅
@@basinga9693abbreviation of A song of ice and fire, the name of the game of thrones books
@@thaneofwhiterun3562not me thinking it is Mezaria who will be the Shepard. Fuck dragons! Fuck Valyria! Valyria is evil! I also believe that Septon Barth may have founded the conspiracy against dragons.
glidus brainrot has gotten so bad that when criston cole said he was abed i turned to my bf and pointed at the screen like that one wojack
I did the same with my brother hahaha
Same. We are all so cooked. Why did you have to do this to us George.
@@SwampGreen14this is what over a decade without a new book does to a person. We have all long since been driven to insanity and depravity
Same
I did the same except I don't have a girlfriend 😔😔
The lone wolf dies but the cheese dog survives
🦵 🐕
What if it’s a Godfather situation where the dog just showed up on set and the actors and director were just like “alright this is a thing now”
Just watched the Cersei Winds video, great stuff
What if cheese warg'd into his dog? HMMMMMMM
How soon can we expect the "Chilli Analyzed" video?
Watching the tragedy of Cargyllbowl, when Erryk kills himself, I didn't see it as payment for breaking a moral code as much as just a genuine suicide. He seemed overcome with grief from having killed his own brother and simply committed suicide by falling on his own sword.
Exactly. It reminded me of Henry/Sam in TLOU. He killed his brother because he had to to protect someone else, but couldn’t live more than a few seconds with that knowledge/grief. Also if you look at it from the framing that they were “one soul in two bodies,” Erryk essentially died when he killed Arryk anyway.
I don't think you can say it's one without the other. It's not just like he's looking at a checklist and saying "oh I'm a kinslayer now that means I've gotta die, oh well." It's clearly emotionally driven, but he was brought to that point by the moral standards and compacts of his society.
Cargyllbowl???? Please don't. Cleganebowl was more than enough "bowl" for 20 shows, let alone 1. Yuck. 🌽🌽🌽-ey
It'd only be a 'bowl' if it had been built up to over many seasons, there's not huge anticipation from the audience waiting for this event, that's what makes something bowlesque 🤣
Came here to say this. I really don't think there's much evidence that kinslaying requires seppuku, and no one else in the scene seems to think "ah, what a shame, but he was indeed just rectifying his honor / atoning for sin." They're shocked and almost try to stop it (save that he's too quick - which also shows that he anticipated them trying to stop him) because it wasn't expected of him. It was grief.
Fun fact: the historical meaning of "prank" is a wicked deed, rather than its modern meaning of a practical joke.
So that's probably what Otto meant by it.
yeah, same goes for when Aegon screams "Villains!"
it's nice to see the words used in such different context than they are in the modern speech
They still are, mostly
WHILST YOU WERE AHORSE... COUPLING!
ENGAGED IN BEHAVIORS UNBECOMING OF A QUEEN!
IN THE MIDST OF A SINFUL PROCEDURE FITTING ONLY OF A SOCKLESS WENCH
SOME GOOD MAY YET COME OF THIS
who was a horse?
@@almostblank4025everybody, westeros is secretly equestria
28:49 I can’t believe Alt Schwift X would steal Alt Schift X’s joke about Rhaenyra going on twitter.
Alt Schwift X, formerly Alt Schwift Twitter
It is exactly something scoundrel would do!
@@sss1029 I choked on air, good job.
In the hours following Alt Shift X’s livestream…jokes were… commandeered.
Glidus preaching the "grindset" in Otto's voice made me lol
Also in the BTS "The House that Dragons Builts" for this episode, we see the letter from Rhaenyra to Borros, the text, in full.
So uh, yeah. Maesters.
I've worked at Royal events in the UK, and I don't know if the Showrunners consulted with anyone in the Household, but the funeral scene is very much accurate to life, if amped up a bit. Whenever the King (the real one, Charles) is anywhere, even if you can't see him you know where he is because the crowd surges like it's being pulled. And there's definitely a desire to touch them or have some kind of physical contact, hence all the endless real-world handshaking. Literally all they'd need to do to set this scene in today's real-world is have them get out the carriage and start working the lines shaking hands.
I truly cannot imagine clambering through a crowd to brush against the nepotistic nonces subjugating me and everyone else I've ever known by simply being born.
"I feel disgusting because I almost liked this guy for a second" 😂 same. God, Fabian is incredible. I'm glad we get to see him in interviews because he seems like such a sweet lil bean irl.
I think they did a good job selling what Christon is. He's a warrior, not a thinker, and that means he's really not good at leading. He's a tool, not a craftsmen, and the self-centered machinations of the royal family have put him in a position that is dangerous to himself and everyone around him. He cares about the oaths and laws by which he is bound, but people use him for their own ends, and it has profound negative effects on him which are externalized to others as a result.
I think they did a good job selling what Christon is. He's a warrior, not a thinker, and that means he's really not good at leading. He's a tool, not a craftsmen, and the self-centered machinations of the royal family have put him in a position that is dangerous to himself and everyone around him. He cares about the oaths and laws by which he is bound, but people use him for their own ends, and it has profound negative effects on him which are externalized to others as a result.
@@hillbillypowpow oaths and laws are important to him, but also flexible. As Septon Eustace says about him, if one path can be broken, what at remarriage vows? He was ready to off himself in shame. He could have just denied any orders that went against his oath instead and gotten the same result. He chose his path.
@@manaash4316 I think Schwift and Glidus nailed it when they said those experiences broke him in a very specific way. The guy sees everything in black and white, and it's as if he suddenly decided "I'm irredeemable no matter what... so I may as well keep digging myself deeper".
"Let a thousand blossoms bloom as far as im concerned. But every year, 6 Stormlanders die in dragon attacks 😡"
I can’t believe that there was a secret tunnel mentioned and Glidus didn’t say….
SECRET TUNNELLLLLL!!!
SAY THE LINE BART
Too many people are learning about them, now their just tunnels. Though I guess there's about 100 less people that are aware after this
Daemon Targaryen to his black kids, stepkids, and toddlers. He will pay equally no attention to you.
There's been a few creators who have nearly almost made me sign up for Nebula, but you two ragamuffins have actually managed to do what they could not.
Sara Snow is Cregan’s drag name. I will die on this hill :)
He hosts brunch at the winterfell tavern every weekend
I’ve already started using “ThAt’s ThE sTuFf Lyonel!” In my every day life
Glidus's Otto voice fucking kills me.
I used to think there being no guards was a plot hole. But no. The greens are that stupid. Aegon is that stupid. Cole, who's in charge of security, is that stupid. It literally did not occur to them to have people guard Helaena or the heir.
When Helaena says: "I'm afraid", Aegon interrupts her: "Don't be, we have Vhaegar."
No it's a plot hole, bad writing just to artificially make the greens look bad because the writers aren't smart enough to make characters nuanced. Greens bad dumb, Blacks smart and good.
Probably didn't want anyone being assigned as their personal guard in case it led to salacious rumors of the kids actually being the get of said guard!
In Aegon's defense, it's Criston's job, not his XD. He does call Cole out for not standing vigil.
@@thaneofwhiterun3562and then makes him hand of the king lololol. Cole is the GOAT of failing upwards
Erryk says "forgive me" and the last word he hears is Rhaenyra saying no
52:25 "He's got a tenuous grasp on life at this point" is such a funny line for no reason
Glidus, thanks for putting out full videos from these conversations. I feel like I’m getting a complete conversation even though it’s edited down. I’m definitely going to check out Nebula once this season is over. Keep up the good work 💪
I was also waiting for the head to pop off during the wagon scene💀😭
I love how when Cristion is talking to Arryk he says something about the “ancient traditions of the Kingsguard”.
The Kingsguard is only 120 years old, hardly ancient. To put that in perspective the Secret Service (US President’s guards) is around 160 years old.
This isn’t a problem with the shows writing, I just think it goes to show how much of an act (idk if that’s necessarily the right word) Criston is putting on.
Imagine if after Kennedy was shot if the secret service on duty got berated for sullying the ancient traditions of the Secret Service. Lmao
You two are a joy to listen to! I really love the breakdowns- the serious, the sarcastic, and the downright dark humor… it’s just great. Thank you!
Otto absolutely WENT OFF this episode. What a scene.
I the scene near the end of the episode between Otto and Alicent, Otto might have been thinking that Alicent was about to admit to lying about Viserys' last words in order to get Aegon on the throne. Even though we know that she told the truth (from her perspective), Otto has no reason to believe her, and now that the consequences of Aegon being crowned are setting in it would make sense for Otto to think that Alicent blames herself for all these awful things happening to their family. I read Otto saying "I do not wish to hear of it" as him saying "I know you lied, and it's okay" while observing the delicate politics of their situation. I think that would also explain the weirdly reassuring tone he had when he said it. It would make perfect sense for his character for him to be so wrapped in the politics of the red keep that it prevents him from being there for his daughter when she just needs someone to talk to.
I found this channel recently. And I even signed up to nebula for the extra content and I'm enjoying it very much! I'd already watched this on nebula but I just wanted to say hi, thanks for the fun contents.
An entire DAY and no new dragon time... He's slipping guys
honestly, the whole thing they have going on with Criston Cole is maybe one of the most interesting parts of the season so far for me. Him trying to scrape up and save what little honor and dignity he has because of everything he’s done is a little heartbreaking while also so engaging cause his immense guilt makes him put off taking responsibility. Makes me think that what could happen at the SPOILER’s SPOILER will have a little more OOMPH when the story gets to that point
Really appreciate the editing on your vids!
The whole Alicent/Criston thing is even funnier when you realise theyre in Rhaenyras old bed.
Jace has outrageous drip this episode
1:13:05 I think Corlys’ line “I have, on occasion, found that to be quite enjoyable” was in regards to giving Daemon commands, as in he had fun ordering him around during the fighting in the Stepstones.
I think the shots of suspended dust and the falling stuff the smallfolk threw foreshadows falling ash
I was just thinking about this. Thank you Goatus.
49:16 I absolutely loved the visual parallels with helaena & rhaenyra - shots of their nearly identical hair, rhaenyra’s dust particles and the (confetti?) stuff above helaena at the funeral.
devastating way to depict the quiet strength of both women shouldering unfathomable pain and stress and horror
50:46 That high pitch laugh is a gift from the gods!!
Ethical indigestion is my go to phrase now on
With all the talk about whether or not to show Jaehaery's body here, I was wondering what your opinion is about the scene with the carriage getting stuck and the body rocking.
My husband and I both got the impression that the body, or head at least, was going to tumble from the carriage. Since it didn't, I wonder if it was shot, but the showrunners decided it was a bridge too far and they edited it out.
Some people were very upset at just the sound design of his death, so seeing his little body tumble to the street would certainly work people up.
In the season 2 teaser, there's a tiny shot of what looks like alicent wearing a funeral headdress running from the smallfolk, so it's possible there was more to that scene that was cut
I think Otto called Jehaerys grandson because it's a shortening for great grandson AND because he was usurping Alicent's position of influence as the aggrieved grandparent. At this point, I think it's second nature and not something he always notices, stealing her power (or the power she should have).
Most of my comments reside somewhere between silly and extra silly but this one actually I think is important and I encourage people to read it.
I am a long time Glidus fan and I’ve always loved his content but haven’t done any of the paid for stuff (patreon, nebula, etc.) not because of the content’s quality but simply because I wanted to be sure my money goes to something I get a lot of return out of and I wasn’t always sure there would be enough content to justify it (I don’t blame you I completely get why dw king ily). But that has changed. The amount of content Glimbo and Schwifty are pumping out 100% annihilates of that nature. So I will be supporting them, I recommend you guys do too!
Also Ser Criston Cole is a bed.
What do you mean the "Glidus Horse theory"? It is literally IN THE TEXT, it says straight up that Tyrek Lannister is now a horse
Cast your vote, who will finish their work first, GRRM finishing the books or Glidus finishing the Pisstakes.
Fabien Frankel is the male Natalie Portman with his eye acting. Fuxking top of of the class.
CCCCOUPLING...
I absolutely love that the Erryk/Arryk trolley problem also guest stars the goats from the Monty Hall paradox.
Jace and Baela are 1st cousins once removed and step siblings.
Also, love the contrast of Rhaenyra having a friendly relationship with her staff while Alicent can't even trust them to give her bath
59:20 Criston's soul went on a smoke break
Aemond:
-Is living an edgelord anime protagonist power fantasy
-Has an “I was studying the blade speach
-And does the westerosi equivalent of listening to mommy asmr
This is the greatest character in fiction.
I can't get enough you guys imitating Otto Hightower
Calling it. when we see old town for the first time we’ll see it with the green beacon lit and the start of the war safe guess but still exciting
I'll never get over how memey Otto's side eye was.
All the fuss about grandson vs. great grandson is silly. People spoke differently in the time this is meant to emulate. The cousin example is a good one. I call a person cousin wherever they are in the line. And, at the end of the day, it’s just cumbersome.
"Equal parts dark and light." Yeeeeah ok George lol 😂
26:06 "Admiration is the furthest state from understanding"
- Aizen Sosuke
I'm surprised they did so many quick cuts when editing the sword fight scene. I thought it took away from the action.
I think its meant to make the viewer question who's who
it would be very funny if daeron showed up with dark hair hence why he was sent off to oldtown
Why didn't Otto do more to actually prepare and council and advise and mold Aegon into being the King he wanted? He never really tried, he just assumed he'd be able to whisper in his ear and manipulate him, and as soon as Aegon does something extremely dumb he just gives up?? After all those decades spent plotting and planning and scheming to get him on the Throne??
Nothing has made me want to sign up for nebula like a 20 hour Jon Snow video
59:21 blud’s thinking he’s dial up internet
Man I’m going to miss these guys’ Otto Hightower voice and phrases
Absolutely lost my shit at “SOMEONE POISONED THE ANTHRAX”
1:19:15 "I'm pretty sure this is Ulf the White."
I legit thought Globo was trolling
I do love the Glizztakes but this is a really good series to watch along with the show
1:29:37 I always saw it as Rhaenyra feeling like something was gonna happen. I think she knew that after what Daemon did that Aegon was gonna try to actively strike at her rather than her kids.
Thankyou gents, this was fkn hilarious all the way through.
This is the best Friday gift you could've given us, Glimbo, thank you
49:18 took that as another connection between rhaenyra and helaena where helaena looks at the petals being thrown during the procession
I think Larys didn't kill cheese because he only killed the people that actively worked for Mysaria, which he didn't. She only knew him as a rat catcher with debts and therefore useful if needed, and that's exactly the information she gives Daemon about him
C'mon glidus, I am literally ITCHING for a new dragon time
Otto's conversation with Aegon before being dismissed shows the peak of his hypocrisy and shows how he wanted Aegon to be his puppet. He scolds Aegon for sending a kingsguard to kill Rhaenyra to avenge his son when Otto wanted to do it from the beggining before any provocation. Then he scolds Aegon for hanging the ratcatchers when he himself hanged the black lords who also have grieving families but these also have armies at their command. The diference is that Aegon actually hanged people who were suspects for the murder of his son.
He made Aegon king against his will and now scolds him when he wields his power like a king. This is all just because he wanted a king he could control like Viserys, but to his suprise Aegon actually took his role as king seriously and wields his power regularly and that really pisses off Otto.
I actually got choked up when Erryk ended it, the twins were fantastic in that scene, totally stole that episode.
Great commentary as always, thank you 😊❤️😊
Otto’s take on Jaherys death being an opportunity for advantage was first seen in S1 regarding Vhagar and Aemonds eye
17:50 that's a real thing that happened. A notable incident is after the death of Augustus' heir Germanicus, the widow wife carried his ashes from Brundisium all the way to Rome where she interred the ashes. It was depicted in paintings as late as the 1800s is how effective the propaganda was. Also look up how many times Augustus tried to get anyone BUT his son in law Tiberius to the throne before he literally ran out of alternatives lol.
Just in time for me to cook up my dinner, I’m having pigeon pie, roast boar and lemon cakes
if you were ever looking for more dragon related media, Dragon Age sure does exist and infact has lore and sometimes dragons.
This is it. This is what I yearned for
You have to pay the toll to fill the hole in your soul
I hate that I can’t watch this video, I’m trying to find a time to watch this episode with my dad, since I’ve gone off to college, we bond over this show. Love your content Glidus!
49:00 I thought the bit where Rhaenyra watched the dust in the air is supposed to be a parallel with Helaena watching the flower petals float during the funeral ride. Furthering the idea of the bond of motherhood Rhaenyra feels for Helaena
Timestamps
Start: 0:00
End 1:43:35
Stop the cap lil bro
😂
thank you so much i was so lost without it!
This is the quiet quitting of YT timestamps and I’m here for it
Thank you, hero
The reason n the opening titles didn’t update is that Helaena was too sad to embroider this week.
weak.
I shouldn't have laughed, but I did. No apologies 😂
That is so sad but hopefully she catches up before the next episode
Genius.
Edit: This part of the reply was not added at first because the App decided the time to add the reply was Now.
I have a feeling the logistical reason was not revealing Jaehaerys' body yet. Next episode is also the first time we see him up close, during Daemon's Harrenhal-flavored acid trip.
awwwwwww
Biggest missed opportunity in the whole episode was when Aegon asked Cole what he was doing and the man did not respond with "Your mom"
It might have been little tactless at that particular time.
@@martind5653
Also if Crispy said that he'd have to kill himself immediately afterwards.
Hopefully as a joke during 1 of the takes the actor said that.
@@alanpennie8013He would probably just make someone else do it.
@@TheLeadhound
There are definitely downsides to being a member of The Kingsguard.
“Rise and grind, your grace” “someone poisoned the anthrax!”
- Glidus moments
"I've got some unfortunate news about faces... they're ALL skull shaped"
I’m keeping “they poisoned the anthrax!” in my back pocket. 10/10 line, I hope to use it someday.
"Some people were curious... But not curious enough to read!"
TH-cam summed up in 5 seconds.
Can we all please just agree that Otto's "what?"at being told Criston is handling Rhaenyra, is the best delivered line in fiction.
The first Westorosi "Bruh" Moment.
“And what plan have you two geniuses cooked up?”
Otto this episode was so funny while never being actually funny haha
His fucking slow head turn towards Criston. I can’t 😂😂😂
The Otto scene is a whole damn mood 😂
11:18 "This is either fanservice or schizophrenia" is how I describe the last decade of ASOIAF theorycrafting.
The trajectory from ‘figuring out the entire plot’ over the first couple of years after aDoD to ‘no new info, nothing is real?’ has been truly remarkable
@@shortdrink873at this point we have theories about how much Valyrian/GEotD/First Men/Cotf/lovecraftian squishers blood there is for basically every corner of Westeros and the very scarse implications that has for the plot
Lets not diminish the Glidus effect, the first Google result for Tyrek Lannister is 'Tyrek Lannister is a horse', and I think that's a beautiful thing.
Well without that, the only things that it might autocomplete would be "dead," "missing," or maybe "wife." None of the theories surrounding his disappearance are terribly popular or widely discussed, and he didn't have anything going on beside that. This is, of course, in contrast to Glidus' other totally legitimate theories, like Hot Pie being the Shrouded Lord, which is probably even more likely but overlooked.
I just verified this is true 😂
At this point I consider it common knowledge
This honestly raises the chances of this being intentional by the writers from Gildus’s stated 2% to 25% for me..
Because think how often the writers google the character names as reminders of their backstory during the writing process, and they have got to be nerds themselves who would be curious what the horse joke is if they saw that as the top result.
(and know that the right people would pick up on the reference, no matter how subtle.. to no detriment of the show itself!)
I was taking care of my dad this past weekend and he’s never seen GoT or anything related.
We watched this episode together and the looks he had were priceless.
“See dad, those 2 are married and he’s her uncle”
“That guy chopped off that 4 year olds head”
“That guy in fetal position with a sapphire eye, is the blonde woman’s, you know the incest one, I guess brother from another mother and he killed her son, who she didn’t have with her uncle and is a bastard.”
And that’s just some of the things I had to explain during the episode.
His reaction after…”that was some great TV. Writers may be a little odd, but those people can act. Let’s do this again, next Sunday.”
I had a very similar experience last week. My best friend‘s partner has never seen GoT or the first season, but watched the first episode of season two with my friend and I. The ‘previously on’ can only cover so much, leaving way for wild explanations 🤣🤣🤣🤣
“They’re brother and sister but also married with kids, and she can kinda see the future.”
Episode ends with Jaehaerys beheaded. “Huh. That was a pretty good show actually.”
You explained Aemond incorrectly
@oculargoose7361 no he didn’t, “brother from another mother”, Aemond is Rhae’s brother from another mother
This ending was great 🥰
Cheese was such a successful rat trapper because he was a warg. He warged the rats, suicided them into his traps, and profited. On his grindset
He was arat
Should've warged a rat to find the right bedroom
Work smarter not harder
I unironically like this theory. It sounds very "Georgesque".
Why not warg the king and make him give him whatever he wants.
Wait, so ser Criston being "a bed", now it makes even more sense why Alicent was bouncing on him.
Criston The Springy Mattress 😂
Go to the black cells! 😂
Gerion Lannister = a bed confirmed?
They weren’t having sex. She was just getting ready to go to sleep and he was accommodating her with a place to sleep
I was really confused why alicent was sitting on criston. Thanks for clearing it up!😊
I love that Jace subscribes to the idea that just because Laenor isnt his father, that doesn't mean he wasn't Jace's dad. Just seems like a very healthy way to view their relationship.
And he's comfortable talking about it with his fiance, a feat not achieved in any other relationship in this show aside from Aemond and Sylvie
@@hillbillypowpow Stepsister/cousin/2nd-cousin once removed/fiancée.*
@@nealfirstofhisname they also share two half siblings from opposite sides. There's not a word for that but it's pretty fucked up
@@hillbillypowpow I believe the technical term is a Targaryen pretzel.
Well tbf, the "Strong" boys were technically legitimized, by being given the Velaryon name. Laenor really WAS his father, by the law, and, by order of the King & all! Hell, Vicerys even threatened to take the tongue of anybody who dare claim otherwise. And of course a lot of that had to do with his love for Rhaenyra sure, however, when you're given a House's name, and made the head of that House's heir... that should be that! People really shouldn't be questioning it or making a huge deal about it.
It would be like throwing it in the face of an adopted person, that their parents aren't really biologically their parents. But let's be clear: the Hightowers always would have stolen Rhaenyra's crown from her regardless of who the father of her children was. THEY want the power. And they hate the idea of being ruled by a woman, when Vicerys has a child with a penis, right there. 😂 lol They were ALWAYS going to start this war. Rhaenyra having "Strong" kids, is simply a convenient excuse they get to use.
Honestly, the scene where Alicent tries to confess and Otto replies with “I do not wish to hear of it” took me out; I was dying laughing. I am one of three girls, and something I’ve heard my dad say a few times when referring to my sisters and I is “I don’t ask questions I don’t wanna know the answer to.”
To me, Otto‘s response was the most ‘dad’ coded he’s ever been in this show
Right it's also the most Viserys-like he's been. Nope, don't tell me what I can already insinuate hellfire daughter of mine thanK YOU
@@lovefromshirley Yeah pretty sure Otto already knew and just didn't want to hear it out loud.
@@lovefromshirley He finally realized why Viserys was so mad about being told about Rhaenyra and Daemon, now that he's in the same position.
My gf, one of three sisters, did the exact same thing.
Is the cole family secretly descended from the first men, which would explain their ability to turn into beds at important moments?
Oh my god
He was still in the scene so obviously he didn't turn into a bed, he worged into the bed so only his mind was a bed.
"Important moments"💀
I think with Otto, it was the realization that he'd completely lost control of this thing he'd spent about two decades trying to bring about. He knows this whole thing is his fault and there's no way to keep it from being as bloody as possible.
Viserys, Daemon, Alicent, and Rhaenyra are also at fault to a major degree
Trying to tie a continent-wide civil war to a single person is silly. It'd be like saying WWI was all Gavrillo's fault, or Bismarck's
@@VesporeonTrue, and it's fair to say that if Alicent and Viserys were half decent, loving parents to their kids this whole thing could be sorted out rather transparently.
But one can't ignore that this entire mess is basically a direct result of Otto's powerplays and scheming.
yeah Otto may not have sown the conflict singlehandedly but he is by far the figure most responsible, he has driven basically every stage of the war
@@VesporeonEh, if we have to blame one person though, it’s Otto. He pushed Viserys into making Rhaenyra heir, but only because he wanted Daemon gone. Then he sowed dissent and planned treason amongst the small council to put Aegon on the throne. Everyone else’s actions in the story were largely reactions or answers to conflicts he started. Always claiming the moral high ground that he wanted peace for the realm, but he always put his families ascension above it all.
@thaneofwhiterun3562 The specifics (Hightower-backed Targ dynasty vs Rhaenyra-Daemon-Velaryon front) yes, but the generalities (civil war in general), no. Viserys was always going to remarry, and if it wasn't Alicent then it'd be Laena; Corlys is one of the few people alive more ambitious, skilled, and dedicated than Otto, and he's got the resources to push for it far more than a 2nd son with no lands of his own does. With a remarriage comes the possibility of a son, and then you're pretty much back to square one, especially if he's Corlys' blood
For the Dance to be avoided, a great deal of action was required from almost every major involved party. I'll lay out just a few here
Viserys either needed to marry Rhaenyra to Daemon or Aegon to combine the claims, call a Great Council and get enough lords to work out a solid system of inheritance (absolute primogeniture), or not push Rhaenyra in the first place. As usual, he proved to be indecisive right up till the moment he had to choose (Aemma's botched pregnancy, walking to the Iron Throne despite his pain), but this often only pushed the problem down the road as it didn't actually address the source
Rhaenyra, for her part, should've not been so blaise in regards to dealing with other houses, building good relations with them instead of being snarky and knocking them down a peg (Jason and Lady Redwyne at the royal hunt, Boremund at Storm's End, going away to Dragonstone for years and allowing the Greens to establish control over KL). Westeros is a patriarchal and sexist society and she knows what happened to Rhaenys at the Great Council. Rhaenys who was married to the richest and most influential man in the realm, Rhaenys who was older, more experienced, had the backing of House Baratheon, and rode a larger, more dangerous dragon than Rhaenyra's own, still lost out to Viserys, who had no dragon of his own and no blood ties to any great house apart from his own (Targaryen), with Daemon being the only figure of note especially motivated to back him no matter what.
She also should've had her first kid(s) with Harwin, as it's definitely known that Targ phenotype usually loses out to most other ones (books make this stronger with Rhaenys and her black hair being a major example in living memory). I'm not really sure what she was doing on Dragonstone all those years, since she should've been making tours across the realm to make herself a known quality to many lords, especially as she ends up having three kids to offer betrothals in the far future. She also should've tried to establish a better relationship with her half-siblings, which one can assume she didn't really try to do based on the royal hunt episode where she's beefing with a literal infant
Daemon needed to learn some impulse control and also how to admit when he's wrong. Heir for a Day should've never been said, and once it was he should've been far more clear in defending himself than he was. He never should've pulled the Rhaenyra-brothel scheme as it simply fucked things up for both of them plus Viserys. He could've used the post-Stepstones victory euphoria to cultivate popular approval and ingratiate himself further to Viserys, bring up the idea of marrying Rhaenyra in a slow, subtle fashion, and get Rhaenyra herself on board to help convince as well. In short, Daemon should've not been Daemon
Alicent (and Viserys) should've been more involved as a parent with Aegon, as his nihilistic attitude screams neglect. She also shouldn't have been so hostile to the Strong boys, as causing dissent and hatred between her kids and Rhaenyra's does nothing to advance her (Alicent's) interests. Both parents (Alicent, Viserys, Rhaenyra, Harwin/Laenor) should've been more attentive and shut down the bullying of Aemond, which came from both sides
This is all to show bad the situation was leading into the Dance. Despite the personal grudges and ambitions which dominated it, the war itself was a systemic failure, not unlike the messiness of imperial succession in Rome.
This is not to absolve Otto of his own responsibility, he did plenty. Forcing Alicent to go to Viserys was immoral, just as what Corlys did was. He deliberately seeded to Alicent the idea that, if Rhaenyra came to power, her kids were done for. He had plenty of time to try and raise Aegon to be less of a fuck-up. He was ready to execute the coup and would've sent assassins to kill Rhaenyra and Daemon, which, if it failed, would've resulted in a war all by itself. Otto is by no means innocent, maybe even the most faulty of any individual, but, as a whole, he still only plays a fraction of a part in how things played out. The very system and framework Westeros was in was the main problem
The way Helaena referred to Jahaerys as “the boy” reminded me of how the Free Folk don’t name their child until they’re older in case they don’t make it. Maybe Helaena dreamed that he wouldn’t make it so she didn’t “name” him, in the same vein
I felt like it was symbolic of how she doesn’t differentiate between the kids more than that. She cares for both of them equally, unlike pretty much everyone else, so her saying "they killed the boy" is her finally recognising that him being the boy mattered. Could also be her not wanting to say his name, which I'm sure will have no negative psychological consequences on his sister with almost the exact same name