Doctor Explains the Latest Vegan vs Keto Head to Head Study
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- A new study published in January pitted a ketogenic, low carb, animal-based diet against a plant-based, low fat diet in a fully controlled environment. A lot of dietary studies are simply not even worth reading, but this one merited a quickie video to share the interesting result as it was done well. The carbohydrate-insulin obesity hypothesis has been widely accepted but not tested. Thankfully non-COVID research is starting to make up more and more of medical news once again.
Argh, this is what happens when you try to write/record/edit/upload on the same day. Typo at 00:07:14 - should read "this does not imply it is the ONLY option..."
Original study by Kevin Hall et al: www.nature.com...
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A quickie down by the river; one-take explainer on an interesting study. I'll be honest with you, after the first few hours I'm not going to check the comments on this one. But I dream of a day where ketonauts will be able to join hands with veganists as brothers and sisters, not divided by what it is on their plate, but united by the fact it is free of processed food. Keep it civil please.
Edit: thanks for those pointing out the typo at 00:07:14 - should read "this does *not* imply it is the ONLY option...". The downside of trying to do the whole video in a hurry in one day!
I feel perfect on keto, i tried healthy vegan for 3 months and felt terrible... Maybe it is different for everyone. :)
This study was heavily biased towards plant-based option. Everyone on keto side knows that the worst outcomes comes from 2 weeks on keto due to fat adaptation. I am very sad that you chose to promote yet more dietary myths using a poor quality study.
What happened to the insulin sensitivity of the keto-group at the 2-week switch? A common argument from the vegan camp is that fat-intake increases likelihood of diabetes due to fat accumulation in cells preventing insulin signalling and glycolysis.
Why were the kids screaming? Were you feeding them vegan?
There's vegan keto you know,the problem is not the diet it's the animal products lol
There's a reason the abbreviation of 'standard American diet' is SAD.
I was actually trying to decifer SAD and was thinking in Starch Additive Diet.
Funnily enough it's also the abbreviation for Seasonal Affective Disorder aka. seasonal depression.
so is a Reasonable American Diet "RAD"?
Sad Additive Diet
@@PresidentialWinner It's "Nonexistent"
Rohin: _Worried that commenters might become belligerent_
Commenters: *Dat beard!*
I had something to say about the "Scenic location"! LOL!
If food is so important then why doesn’t the body make it itself?? Smh
Reject heterotrophism, go back to photosynthesis
Plants be like
If food is so good why isn't there a Food 2 ? Smh
It does. I get all the nutrients i need by looking at the sun. It’s called bretharianism
@@Biped there is. thats cooking!
It's really refreshing to find someone on youtube who's both knowledgeable, reasonable and also funny.
I love your content.
Thank you Doctor.
I just realized "Standard American Diet" acronym is SAD
😂😂😂
nicely spotted 👍
Could say that for any countries standard diet starting with ‘A’ 😉
@@oldmate86 for the American one it's specially true though.
It's infamously unhealthy and that's not really up for debate.
Some are happy to be SAD.
You created an entire career on TH-cam just to avoid your kids ?!?
_It’s the only way_
Madlad. Fucking legend!
Pretty sure that's what youtube was invented for.
thats dedication
😂😂😂👍
Two videos in one week? How many patients had to be sacrificed for this?
Too few.
They're all dead Jim
@@MedlifeCrisis Everybody's dead, Dave.
@@Ravenesque Dave, everybody's dead
@@userPrehistoricman what, even Peterson?
Honestly, I really appreciate the POV of this video. It’s true that there are a lot of videos on diet, but many of them (even many that go into the scientific literature) end up pushing one solution, and ignoring literature which suggests another diet might also be effective. I think it’s an open question as to what the optimal, long-term diet is, but it’s reassuring to hear that your main priority should be to eat healthy, unprocessed foods.
Glad you apologized for the wind, too many people just accept it as if it wasn't their fault.
This comment is gold.
Hey he could have filmed inside
😅
🤣🤣
He was supposed to use fur to cover the mic
Rohin in 2019 : clean shaved.
Rohin in 2020 : shaves from time to time.
Rohin in 2021 : full on beard.
Rohin in 2022 : is called "Santa Claus" on a regular basis.
CHO CHO CHO!
(That's a Christmas carbs joke)
@@MedlifeCrisis I'm going to use that in class next Christmas
@@MedlifeCrisis That took so much IQ, readers get an honorary PhD
2024 - will be mistaken for 'The Thing' Addams.
@@racitup4114 ... Just to avoid his kids!
I was gonna say this study sounds familiar then I realised it was the study that I took part in as a participant
Oh nice! What were your thoughts once you heard the results? Has it changed your eating habits?
Answer the man, wont you!
@@MedlifeCrisis I didn’t actually realise that the other diet was completely vegan until you mentioned it now that I think about it. I was actually surprised at how it made me feel much fuller despite having eaten less calories, I actually had no idea just how big the difference was and just figured that it looked like the same amount so it might as well be. I also didn’t realise just how high the average age was compared to me, at the time I was 11 years younger than the mean. After the study I did notice that I had a strong craving for meat, but that might’ve been because my final two weeks were on the vegan diet
@@SponzifyMee I actually didn’t notice his reply since my TH-cam notifications are usually just a cluttered mess, I probably wouldn’t have ever noticed if your comment didn’t show up as a banner notification honestly
@@dootdoot3888 crave for “meat” or highly calorie packed substances may occur if you only try it for a whole year or two but for natural born vegans they don’t get this craving ever and I after almost 3 years can notice enhanced smell aswell as things smelling differently
I have done both eating programs. Plant-based: lost weight but always hungry and had to eat HUGE portions (did it for one year), skin did not look great (mind you, this was a very low fat, vegan diet which may be the reason I was always hungry and had skin issues). Always felt like I was being punished. Keto: Lost 80 lbs, went from Stage 2 hypertension to normal, reversed pre-diabetes, lower back pain I've had since a child gone. Achy joints gone. Only need to sleep 5 to 6 hours per night. Do not obsess over food and only need two squares per day. Skin looked amazing (reduced wrinkles and age spots disappeared). Keto: still going and loving it. (I do have an occasional treat meal on holidays and what not -- gotta enjoy yourself sometimes). Mind you: keto is not stuffing yourself with gobs of meat. it's small portions of meat with huge servings of low carb veggies. Eggs, some nuts, a little cheese and healthy oils: olive, avocado, butter, sesame. Also on plant based, I'd have to eat a good 3000 calories per day to not feel hungry all of the time. On keto, I eat about 1200 to 1500 calories per day and do not go through hunger pangs throughout the day. Everyone has to find what works best for their body. We are all different. Whatever plan you do, please be sure not to eliminate healthy fats from your diet. They are very essential to your overall health, especially neurological function.
The problem is the keto diet you're setting yourself up to myriad cancers or diseases. Hopefully not. But you're definitely at a higher risk than vegetarian folks. Blue zone groups, India, Asia where people are mostly vegetarian.
If you eat 3k calories and still hungry you should really see a doc. Has nothing to do with a diet.
I am finding something similar. I've lost around 25 lbs on a largely plant-based diet over the last two years (I kinda lost a lot of the same weight 3 times, due to repeated illnesses, antibiotics and steroids), but I would feel very full on a low fat meal for a couple of hours, then very suddenly be ravenously hangry. I battled constantly with intense cravings for junk food. I always felt better after binge eating.
For a couple of months, I've been realizing my body does NOT want to be on a very low fat diet. I've been looking into a largely plant-based keto diet (hence finding this video). I've been eating high fat, low carb for only 8 days, and despite a couple of unpleasant symptoms the first three days, I haven't felt this good in probably a decade. Cravings for junk food are gone. Binging is gone. I can stop eating before I even finish my meal because I finally feel completely satisfied, and after a few days, I don't NEED coffee in the morning to function. I've also lost 6 pounds.
I still eat lots of veggies and a very high fiber diet. No fruit, but LOTS of nuts, I'm not afraid of oil anymore, and I'm eating a little meat and eggs (which I would end up doing when I'd binge eat, anyway). I told my husband, "When I was eating vegan, I would be full but not satisfied. Now when I eat I feel satisfied but not full."
To a mammalian body, there is really no difference between ketosis and the starvation state. Your 5-6 hours a night are more likely due to chronically high stress hormones than any kind of evolutionary preference to burn fats over glucose. 'Keto adaption' is a nice concept, but it's just a band aid over pre existing metabolic dysfunction. Cells need to burn glucose for energy (hence gluconeogenesis). They will break down lean tissue to get it just to keep you alive. Essentially there is plenty to indict the Keto diet, but you won't find that information in the Keto space.
No the only lean tissue it breaks down is the protein you eat. What is a "starvation state"? Anytime weight is being lost could be described as a starvation state.
“...and you can’t lock people in a room for many years to do that”
You can in prisons.
I wonder if that would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
@@finlayl2505 I was literally just about to say that myself. I didn’t really think it through did I? 😬😬
I choose to believe that ethics review boards in 2021 would strike down experiments on prisoners down right away.
Sadly, things like MKUltra belie that faith in humanity.
Anyhow both types of diet seem to drastically increase the amount of tattoos of the participants compared to the average person....
@@finlayl2505 This isn’t the US, you’ll be given rights when you’re told.
"Something like two thirds of the American diet comes from ultra-processed food, compared to about 5% in Portugal and 8% in France" - Medlife Crisis
I live in France and although we do not eat much ultra-processed foods, we do eat a fair bit of processed foods we often mix up among themselves so maybe that makes them ultra-processed (not too caricature things but bread + cheese + glass of wine will be considered as an ultra-processed food item by your digestive system). Also, we are the second biggest market on earth for pizza after the US but before any other nation on earth (Italians eats only one-half of the amount we eat) with 29 pizzas eaten per second, 20 pounds of pizza per person per year.
Exactly why we have so many people dying of covid
@@jonathanlyng3442 I’ve read that there’s a difference between flours and wheat in the US and Australia compared to the UK and Europe. I believe that ultra processed foods are ready made snacks, compared to something like bread where there are a few basic raw ingredients. Look at bread from a supermarket and see the ingredients, preservatives, emulsifiers, and so on compared to a freshly baked loaf from a baker with less than a handful of fresh ingredients.
I have zero education regarding this, but I can only assume any overly processed foods don’t leave much for the digestive system to work on. From the chewing of food to the large intestines ability to absorb any remaining nutrients. If food is over processed, most of the system doesn’t really need to work hard if at all. I believe (once again, with zero education and knowledge) that this plays a significant part in the amount of digestive system issues in countries where foods are generally more highly processed. More advertising regarding IBS, or heartburn, and so on. Not to mention general health of ones stool.
I’m always open to learning more about diets, having been vegan for more than half my life. I try to balance my diet with my morals as well as environmental impact in addition to personal health and I notice that foods I eat can really affect how I physically feel.
Hahahahahhaha
@@Ataraxia_Atom We don't. We have over a 99% survival rate. And that's also including the bs "covid related" numbers. Masks do nothing but actually hurt you. Manufactured fear.
As an ex keto, and never Vegan, I would rather be vegan. Keto killed my health
Since ‘keto’ is not a combination foods, but just one effect food can have on you, your statement really doesn’t make much sense and demonstrates a massive confusion you have. Were you eating highly processed CAFO hot dogs, or sardines? Were you eating tons of fake-sugar alcohols and ‘treats’ ,or did you cut out all fake sweeteners? Did you use a blood ketone and blood glucose monitor to check daily for the first few weeks as you transition? Yeah, i thought not. You were never on a “well formulated keto diet”, the kind recommended by physicians who do work in the field. You were on some imitation keto junk diet that obviously didn’t work for you, because it wouldn’t work for anybody.
Man, the beard gains though! Soon every beard company will be begging to advertise on your glorious channel :D
Is there anything less in need of a company than a beard? It's what happens when you don't shave.
Da fu is a 'beard company'? You mean companies that sell ancillary products, like wet wipes to clean the food detritus from around the edges of your mouth?
@@thePronto Those that sell beard combs, beard oil, beard trimmers etc.
So are you convinced yet that you should switch to a whole food plant-based vegan lifestyle?
omg hi steven
BEARD
why are you here
I can't believe the Jazz man watches the Doctor man
Ah, my favorite Adam
BASS
Repetition legitimizes
An unexpected encounter, but a pleasing one indeed
"sorry about the wind noise, but I thought you might prefer that to screaming kids" 🤣🤣🤣
I can still hear screaming kids -mine
I've seen a video by an American woman moving from LA to Czechia. She said she almost immidiately stopped being on a diet (because of removed peer pressure), just ate whatever she pleased and yet lost a lot of weight. This was surprising, because Czech cuisine is high on both fats and carbs.
Her theory is the lifestyle. Americans are always in a hurry, when hungry they chug down a protein bar or some fast food and rush onward.
In Czechia people actually take time at work to leave the office, go to pub and have some actual food, maybe a small low-alcohol beer and chat.
A small low alcohol beer? Haha that is not done in Czechia. Their small beer is 3 half a liter jugs. Funnily enough they are some of the least healthy people in Europe, but I guess compared to America they are still considerably healthier . I'm Portuguese and moved to Czechia for a while and actually gained a bit of weight with all their fries.
you look like a very smart and educated Captain Haddock
Captain Haddock before he started drinking.
"And I have no diet books or plans to sell you"
that's the kind of humor that I'm here for
"Both groups lost weight"
This is just a minor detail in this video but reminds me why I'm so fed up with all those diet debates: many people treat them as weight loss competition. I'm underweight and always have been, and I get really annoyed when people start praising their specific diet because they lost weight, compared to actually important consequences like overall health or metrics that apply to everyone - but of course that's more difficult because it's more than just one number and requires more knowledge than knowing where to buy some scales.
It's clearly mentioned at the start of the video that both groups are overweight. They have too much bodyfat and aren't healthy so losing bodyfat is the goal in this study.
Yeah, looking for a diet information as someone who isn't after losing weight is quite frustrating. What's so mysterious. You eat less and skip on junk, you lose weight.
The research enquiry starts with what and how to eat to achieve optimal body and mind performance.
@@daveyhintzen53 Wrong. In a scientific study, you record everything about the subjects. Fat cells affect hormone levels, so even if it's not about weight loss, weight is important.
there are dozens of massive high quality studies focused on diets that reduce cardivascular and malignancy morbidity, preservation of cognitive function, etc, etc. But you probably prefer to bask yourself in your ignorance and complain
@@AnomiEj Cool. You almost got my point. But you probably prefer to act like a smartass by vaguely referring to some studies which have absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
Hmm, this beard makes some compelling points
It could work in a hospital.
Ironic as 'beard' used to indicate you suspected the person you're talking to is spouting BS. That was our hot slang back in the 90s.
Rohin, it would appear your viewers' opinion is unanimous; you look very handsome sporting the beard! Just do a trim, rather than shaving it all off.
My experience with about 18 months of a keto diet was much the same in the first 14 days. I had rapid weight loss which was mostly water weight, but then a slow a steady fat loss which continued until I was very lean. I felt better than I had in years and had more energy. As the diet progressed I found myself eating less each day without feeling hungry. Unfortunately I regressed into my bad old habits and regained the fat. Now I'm always tired and lethargic. It was peer pressure and difficulty in social situations that started my downward regression. It's difficult to maintain a keto diets and be social when all the people cooking for you are eating massive carb loads.
That's my experience, as well. Exactly.
This is my experience as well. I am trying to get back to pure KETO, not only KETO helped me to loss weight, but also fix my years’ bad health. I believe KETO and intermittent fasting are the keys for longevity.
Guess what, this is my experience too!
If you were always tired and lethargic you werent eating a balanced diet of healhy, whole foods. Good carbs are not your enemy.
@@cheezheadz3928 I know that. A keto diet includes healthy carbs. They are essential. But only about 5-10% of the food should be carbs.
"You obviously can't lock people in a room to do that for a long period of time".
Well, nobody sent me that memo!
* reluctantly unlocks cellar door *
"nutrition research is sullied by a lot of garbage"
you forgot to mention huge amounts of fuckery from institutions, NGO's and big business.
Like all the chocolate industry funded research
I don't mean to quibble, but the technical term is *SHIT FUCKERY.*
Wouldn't all of that fall under the definition of 'garbage'?
Yeah...a lot of garbage
Don't forget the olive oil industry where you can't refuse their offer
After a couple years of severe back pain I went from a standard american diet to a dr berg inspired keto diet. It changed my life and opened my eyes to nutrition and whole foods, but didn't solve all my problems. My back pain decreased by about 70% on keto(which felt like a miracle) and I knew I could never return to eating like I had for 27 years. After 1 year I found myself unable to sustain it from losing too much weight, basically uncontrollable urges for carbs, and actually losing muscle.
I decided to try a plant based and my back pain completely disappeared. Also started trail running and rock climbing at the same time(March 2020). I went from not being able to run 200 yards to a trail marathon in 9 months. All on a pretty vegan-ish diet. Running my first ultra in 4 months. At this point in my food journey I don't see myself changing from a WFPB diet. I feel too good and not all the bad side effects I dealt with on keto. Hopefully this information will help someone because now it has taken me a a few minutes to type out 🤣
Same.... Keto did not fix much for me and I was on it for over 2 years it just helped me loose some weight, But a year in I also got depressed on it and like you I also lost muscle, I also developed this wired nerve pain in my legs I though that was so strange, but now I am Vegan since almost 3 years and I never felt better, zero health problems no more depression or nerve pain so much more energy!
@@AdamAdam-hq9so nice man! My wife is now experimenting with keto, which is way better than standard American! But I guess she'll have to experience it before she just takes my advice 😂
I have lost 40 kg of weight on total keto for 1 year. I have a normal glu and Ap.
Reversed my diabetes and dumped all diabetic medications on keto. Energy off the charts. For me it works.
@@judyfifield6941 that's awesome Judy!
Man im not on either side, i just happened to try keto with intermittent fasting for a few months and i saw noticeable health improvements to my digestive tract, psoriasis flares receding and lost weight too. For me it worked and ill stick with it.
Ye, same. I think the important part is, I think, ... "few months". and the study took only a month. I would like to see a study that would take half of year, but ... I guess that is not going to happen. :D
If you look at keto, it emphasizes eating of natural foods not heavily processed stuff, and that is exactly what he is stating that the enemy seems to be the heavily processed foods we get. Basically this is mostly seen in people who still depend on their own created food.
@Jay Rozes literally life is not important outside of human notions to feel a sense of moral superiority.
If life we're sacred, you wouldn't be killing billions of living things per second.
You've likely killed thousands of insects just casually walking or driving around, but those aren't as easily anthropomorphized so people don't care.
Death is an inherent part of life, from the sun to fungi, something needs to die so something can live.
You risk a lot of health complications in the long run. I started to have problems sleeping after a couple of years. And I gained all the weight back with very little effort.
@@OatmealTheCrazy Death is a part of life, not slaughterhouses.
That is an incredible beard
I hope he grows it long enough that he can braid it
Indian genes best genes for beards?
Yeah like Rohin is not supposed to be handsome
Pandemic beard. After these lockdowns, I look like a taliban or a hippie
Indeed it is. I wish I could grow even half the beard this handsome man has
I'd give a kidney for a beard like that, wanna make a deal?
@@kian4392 well, I'm open for negotiations
I assume it's not your kidney... to clarify, I don't doubt you own it. I only doubt it came from your body....
@@KohuGaly It's a complicated story.
Legally.
@@KohuGaly If he found it he own it so it was his kidney.
@@sirBrouwer did he find it in someone?
Fortunately here where I live processed foods: ready made meals - fast foods - cookies/biscuits - chips etc are far more expensive than fresh food bought in supermarkets or fresh food markets.
Where do you live may I ask? I am from a region where local beer is cheaper than water/mineral water and sometimes even soda.
@peter No "sociopathic corporations" necessary really. Go on and jack the price of a bag of Doritos by 50% with a junk food tax. See how long you hold office.
No, the solution is to get people cooking again. We started doing that a bit during COVID, but too many people got in the habit of ordering DoorDash instead. The more they cook their own food, the less likely they will to be to resort to junk food alternatives. That means you introduce or reintroduce Home Economics in schools. Start them in middle school. The kids learn to cook, manage their groceries, identify good foods they can keep around for snacks, maybe even learn how to balance their checkbook.
Yeah me too. Mostly cause fresh food retrieved from local farms so it didn't go miles to be transported. Hence the cheap price
Yeah money is a huge factor. As standard of living in my country goes up, more and more people order food instead of cooking simply because they can afford it regularly now. One could argue that small scale cooking is ineffective and food delivery is the future, but I still prefer to cook for myself.
Exactly that seems to be part of the problem in the US - fresh food, for whatever reason, is much more expensive than the Junk Alternatives
this just came up on my videos to watch - was going to, but then realised it was a comparison of Keto v's Vegan as a diet - I would suggest you change the title as Vegan is not a diet - a more appropriate title would be plant based. I am vegan not for the health benefits, but I follow a low lectin/plant based diet for health which seems to be working pretty well for me.
Finally a comment reflecting my confusion! I don't do veganism for the health benefits, that's just a nice little bonus if I happen to be healthier. I still consume a bunch of junk regardless, I just don't want to be harming animals with my choices.
@TH-cam Account It takes more crops to feed livestock than it does to feed people directly. Even considering that crop farming can definitely be harmful in certain ways, farming animals only amplifies that issue. Less livestock = fewer crops = less deaths from harvests.
@TH-cam Account (adding another reply here to ask, did my reply show up? i linked a couple sources, hopefully that didn't cause my comment to be automatically deleted.)
Edit: Fuck, it seems to not be showing. Bleh, can't be bothered to fully rewrite it. In summary: Majority of mammals and birds on Earth are livestock (and they're suffering), majority of crops in the US are fed to livestock (and a decent amount globally as well). I'd link my sources, but YT doesn't like that, so ig look it up yourself :/
very interesting! honestly i've lost so much weight ever since i moved out and really started cooking for myself, instead of eating the processed frozen foods i used to eat. the weight loss was very nice and i'm finally an average weight.
It's pretty easy to maintain weight with minimally processed whole food meals cooked at home, everyone knows this, but not everyone knows how or can be bothered to cook, and pizza and icecream taste amazing lol.
@@saschamayer4050 but totally worthwhile. I love to plan beautiful balanced meals...and you know, I can eat whatever I want and not gain weight. Portion control is important but just eating great nutritious food has made all the difference for me
I lost ten pounds since moving out last year. I love to cook and take the time to enjoy it. Cooking does not just be a chore, it is taking a mini food trip to another country.
I'd be so much leaner if I didn't have a family to cook for all with their own individual tastes and preferences! If my wife wants to try one of the new highly processed vegan treats then I can't resist! It's a lot easier to just not buy them, but when that choice isn't yours alone it's so much more harder to avoid those foods. Enjoy your solo food options whilst you can haha.
@@saschamayer4050 Yeah you'd be surprised or maybe not to know how many healthcare workers have terrible diets due to the unusual hours they work and the difficulty of fitting in cooking and meal preparation time.
Yes! Different food habits work better for different goals/different people! I feel terrible eating a lot of protein or animal products, but I have a good friend who feels terrible eating many carbs no matter the source.
Exactly!
*I STARTED KETO* due to pancreas damage making me borderline diabetic.
THE BIGGEST BENEFIT TO ME ON KETO is that I feel GREAT. I sleep so much better. I get up at 6.00am not 11.00am. My mental health is better. I'm happier. It has transformed my life and I certainly was not expecting that, I was just trying to avoid the need for insulin. I felt f-king terrible on a vegetarian diet.
we are more alike than we are different
@@piccalillipit9211 I'm so glad your quality of life has improved so much! That must feel amazing!!!
@@GraceWhip Thank yes. I feel very lucky. It is a diet that suits me. But I make point of NOT preaching about it to others...
"I have no diet books or diet plans to sell you". And that's how I subscribed. Plus, you made smart videos with Sabine Hossenfelder!
The Standard American Diet is just.... SAD
This is so interesting to hear. About a year ago I went vegan. I was pretty overweight (about 85+ kg at 168cm) but wasn't trying to lose weight. In fact, I was pretty happy with my body. I noticed my clothes were baggy but didn't think much of it until I realised I'd lost about 10kg in only a few months. One year on, I've lost 25kg and I find it odd how much progress I've made without trying all that hard. This is after years of many failed diets - so I'd given up, and started accepting things weren't going to change... My diet "strategy" these days is simply cooking foods I enjoy eating. Your point about the lack of processed foods is very on point! It would be silly to equate the veganism to the weight loss entirely, but it certainly acted as a catalyst to teach me different (arguably healthier) meals to cook.
@@trollsneedhugs Interesting bulllshit claims, got a study for that?
@@trollsneedhugs that's absolutely ludicrous. For me, I eat a wider variety of veggies, pulses, grains etc and supplement the rest. Much healthier than when I was eating bacon and processed snacks on the regular
Nice! Keep going, that's very good. It all may come down to just that, eating what you like with ingredients as healthy and natural as they can be
@@drumzh41 sure. The point I was saying is that for me, the increased satiation and a connection to the food I was making (Vs processed high energy snacks I would eat before) may have allowed for the weight loss
@@JaviGis Thank you Javi! Indeed, definitely plan on continuing. 🤗🙏
Hi, I just want to thank you for reading these research papers, explaining it, and keeping us up to date! You are on my shortlist of people that genuinely want to make this world a better place. :-)
It would have been nice of him to explain the environmental benefits of cutting out animal products though .
It's trivial to talk about health when the planet is in such a state due to animal agriculture .
I’ve been through intensive diets, both low fat and high protein. I didn’t feel well in either, so I proceeded to eat everything I felt good after eating it. 2 eggs and bacon in the morning, fruit after workout, vegetables and chicken or fish for lunch and for dinner spinach and potatoes. I never felt better in my life, and I actually realized that it’s about the quality of the food and how do YOU feel after eating. Surely someone feels better on a different diet 💁♀️
Careful eating spinach every day, it’s full of oxalate
Be careful about going by feeling. There are plenty of unhealthy things that could be going on in the body which one can't feel. Also, it could just be a placebo.
'Bacon' and 'quality of the food' in the same argument.
Ah, now I get it, you are being sarcastic.
Most bacon comes from grain fed pigs which have an insane omega 6 to omega 3 ratio.
@@PierSilver LOL.
Him: "And I have no diet books or plans to sell you"
Me: *smashes like button
B
B
One thing I would like to point out is that, for a person who has never followed a ketogenic diet before, getting into ketosis and adapting to that way of eating takes more than 14 days. When I first started keto, I consumed quite a lot of calories, especially for the first two weeks. But as time passed, my need for food reduced significantly to the point that I don't really need more than 1 or sometimes 2 meals a day. The best part is that my hunger and cravings reduced significantly, without much need for willpower to control my eating habits.
I would love to hear your thought on this.
Most studies show people on keto eat fewer calories once they've adapted, that's the main reason they lose weight. 14 days is way too short to draw any conclusion on how a diet will work in the long run, especially in the real world where you aren't locked up with someone bringing you meals they've chosen. I've tried both low-fat vegetarian and keto. My weight didn't change much but my blood lipid profile looks much better on keto, and mentally keto feels better with fewer ups and downs in mood.
"Eat as much as the wanted." In the US, we habitually eat three meals plus snacks and we habitually fill our plates for those meals. And our plates are large.
If the eating habits were not changed--and they were expressly not changed in this study--then it's obvious that American eating habits (three meals, plates filled) with calorie-dense foods will result in a higher daily caloric intake than the same eating habits (three meals, plates filled) with less dense foods.
They gave the study subjects no information or instructions and the test wasn't long enough for habits to change naturally.
yeah that 2 weeks cycle is way too short. I don't have a horse in the race, but I know that Keto takes quite a bit of time to "get started" .
I think it is a good point about Japanese diets, asian cultures such as Chinese, Japanese, south east Asians consume rice with pretty much every meal, but traditionally they are thin...
@@louisebakerlifeandwellness3391 Some are, some are not. There are some pretty fat Chinese these days. You have to look at the culture's entire lifestyle, not just one element of their diets. Even things like the time of day they eat, whether they do a lot of snacking, the size of their portions, whether they consume a lot of sugar, how long they take to eat...all those things add up.
7:30 "can't we all just get along". Keto people argue for their diet for dietary reason and vegans do so for moral reasons.
People argue for their xy because it's their xy.
@@wiczus6102?
@@petrichor1956 tribalism, he mentioned in the video. You argue for something, because you belong to a certain camp.
@@wiczus6102 no, it's because it's factual. You and the youtube owner are confused. Plant based is a diet consisting of plants. Vegan is someone who tries to avoid exploitation of animals as practically as possible, and this includes things like leather. So you and the youtube are reffering to plant based people. Not vegans. Veganism is a philosophy and a stance. Not a diet group
@@petrichor1956 ok lmao
You need to appreciate the 10 min no cut speaking
"A moderate voice? Burn the heretic!"
-Said every person who has group membership instead of personality traits.
MBTI gang greets you
Yeah he encourages to try one or the other where plant based diet is proved to have long term benefits like avoiding 10 of the top 15 killer diseases, and keto is known by the American college of cardiology to be detrimental to the heart.
On the other side, losing weight is keto's only benefit. You can as well do a crack diet or a chemotherapy, same result.
@@v-sig2389 Not true. Soy is equally as likely to cause heart disease and soy is a major part of the vegan diet.
It’s just food preference though. I don’t care either way.
@@kimmiewise1044 so please link me here a study that demonstrate how soy could be detrimental to heart health, because right now i think you just pulled that fact out of you a** 😄. Not a magazine or a so called expert, but a real study.
Second : soy is not necessary a big part of a vegan diet, vegans can in fact go months without soy.
Third : if you are worried about soy, then you should really be worried about the mass deforestation that goes on even stronger today - despite environnementalists beg for that to stop since decades - to make place to grow gmo soy, that goes straight to factory farms to make ... meat. Not a vegan problem ˆˆ
Actually vegans consume a really tiny amount of worldwide soy production, all the rest is for meat eaters.
@@v-sig2389 Wow, so not true!
Here’s my spruce that soy can cause heart disease: www.jci.org/articles/view/24676
Also soy patties only make up 4% of livestock feed, where as 46% of feed is grass and leaves. So no, it’s not a meat eater problem it’s actually a biofuel problem. People who want to use biofuel are using soy oil which increases the demand for soy.
So if you are using biofuel, it is your problem? Particularly a vegan pro if you are increasing your soy intake as well.
While soy isn’t necessary to be vegan it’s a major part of the diet you are cutting out. So much so that a majority of animal product replacements such as impossible burger contain copious amount of soy.
I don’t use biofuel and I only eat grass fed meat so it isn’t my problem. Vegans however...
It's a very interesting topic! I've done very well in terms of health and weight loss on a very high-carb vegan diet, I've managed to reach goals that I could never do before (blood tests, stamina, muscle gain, weight loss, mood) just by simply changing my diet to whole foods plant-based. I researched the topic a lot before making the switch from being an omnivore as I was really worried about nutrients and everything on a vegan diet (as I think everybody is). I really liked everything I read + soon enough I had the experience myself. For years, I was a firm believer in the high-carb vegan lifestyle, and I still am! Based on my research I thought there is nothing else truly good for the human body. I still think it's very nice compared to other diets because of the high fruit and veg intake and overall healthy approach. But for the past year, I started intermittent fasting (for quarantine weight gain) and that's why I started looking into keto because I heard the two works best together. Because I want to remain open-minded I did a lot of research on (healthy) keto as well and I like the concept, so I'm going to try this diet, too. I guess my point is: people don't be narrow-minded, lots of different things can work on lots of different people, unless you have a medical condition that omits you from trying something, don't judge until you tried. And you don't have to do restricting diets to have results, before this whole thing I just ditched processed foods, sugary drinks and aimed to eat fruits/veggies at least once a day (compared to almost never before that) and it helped a lot. Combo that with a half-hour walk every day and you will see results without a doubt.
@TH-cam Account reading comprehension much? Who talks about getting ripped, what the hell is even your comment, a joke?
My biggest question for either diet is whether two weeks is long enough, since their bodies might not have long enough to adjust to the drastic shifts in carb intake. I've always found the first two weeks of any diet to be the highest weight loss period, before the they system adjust to the change and begins caloric conservation mode; what is usually called a plateau period. Of course my understanding is not based in sceince and I'd love to see a longer period for both strategies. I'm guessing though, that the water weight loss in the beginning of the keto diet is preliminary results and fat stores are targeted later on. It would be interesting to learn more about the nutritional challenges of each diet and this compared as well to bariatric surgery (also touted as a solution to type 2 diabetes) deficits.
No it's not long enough keto can take months to start working depending on how badly damaged your body is internally from years of carb eating...weight loss on keto is a SIDE EFFECT not the goal! The goal is to eat healthy and heal your body, keto does this .
This is exactly my objection. Contrary to what the video claims, the short duration is VERY much relevant for this exact reason: The duration is too short to represent the effects of keto (and presumably of vegan). The effects needs to be measured after the body adapts to that kind of diet.
@@bigmort6916 I hear what you are saying, and it's a valid critique of the study. A question though: wouldn't that drawback of the study go both ways? That is, the long-term effects of a vegan diet is also missing here. What do you suppose the long-term effect of a ("healthy") vegan diet would be compared to a ("healthy") keto one? (not looking for a fight, just curious)
@@markusnystrom852 I don't think they are equal in adaption time. Don't have any reference. But from what I've understood regarding keto, it takes quite some time to adapt to. The first week is loss of water weight (if body fat percentage is the studied variable). But it takes at least 10 days to even reach ketosis from what I've understood.
I was lacto ovo vegetarian and vegan for 16 years. Only felt satiated after meals but became hungry eventually and stuffed myself with food. Never felt that I could control my intake. This continued when I started eating meat again. I stop obsessing about food only when on keto and periods of intermittent fasting. It's a long way to adaptation as so far that I go thru different styles of keto and fasting along the way. But, keeping to the core principles of keto (very low carb intake), I now feel totally fine with regards to my previously instantiable hunger. And I feel fine otherwise. And I can work out, focus and so on. This is of course anecdotal. And maybe there are ways for me to have another diet that stop me from binge eating / obsessing about food / always feel hungry. But I've had 40 years of trial and error so to say. But only one success.
I know that this was quite off topic. But maybe interesting anyways. I'm now down 35 kg from my highest weight. And I don't think weight (body fat) is everything. Nutrition and subjective health also factors in. But it feels fantastic to finally feel like my head and my body is on the same team.
@@vikingsofvintageaudio7470 Thank you for replying, and it is interesting to read, even though it might be anecdotal. It's good to hear that your head and your body is on the same team! :-D You may very well be right about adoption time, I can't tell. I've never really given any thought to there being an adoption time to a vegan diet either, to be honest.
My experience is pretty much the opposite of yours. I've had a steady weight and good health for thirty years and I've mostly been a vegetarian for that time. I tried keto for three week a few years ago, did it by the book, felt sick the whole time and gained four kilograms. Went back to veggies and dropped the weight again in under a month. I think it's all pretty simple. We are different. We react different to different foods.
Filming on 3 hours of sleep: not advised
Lucky for us Rohin does it anyway!
My name is Rohin, and I'm a cardiologist
Is that how you introduce yourself at TH-camrs Anonymous?
other phrases you often hear there:
- I still couldn't stop, even though I was demonetized years ago already.
- It all started with a seemingly harmless myspace account.
- It got out of hand with my third and fourth channel.
- Shut up about influencers! They destroyed everything.
Absolutely great video. My head has been spinning lately around this debate….. so it’s nice to see it’s actually more about cutting out the processed, highly refined foods. 👍
💯
I'm on Keto camp. And this seemed like a genuinely great video and overview of a study. The points I gathered were that Processed foods probably a good place to start when cutting or changing one's diet. Also that being so polarizing in strictly adhering to one form of diet over another is not in everyone's best interest. What I feel research will ultimately show over time is that there is no One clear diet that is best for everyone. There is so much variation in humans that it is likely that there will be a much more personalized diet for each individual based around their own personal needs and Biology where we first start by cutting out those Processed foods, and eat foods that look and taste as real and unprocessed as possible.
Thanks again for the video.
Great video and yes to the importance of the overall reduction in highly-processed foods, regardless of involvement of animal products. I need to add that most vegans, including myself, have that lifestyle for the animals. The whole food vs. vegan junk food element is the health-related choice.
It’s too easy to assume positions for others without asking first.
Agree being solely plant based and vegan (avoiding animal products where possible and practicable to avoid animal abuse as much as possible) are pretty different
@@judyfifield6941 ummm he’s literally right tho most vegans are vegan for the animals
I'm vegan for the animals which includes what I wear and use but my diet is WFPBnoSOS for my health which I discovered after being a vegan first.
I absolutely LOVED this video!!!! Love the way you speak and your attitude!!! Smashing video!!!
Why?
Yes Sahil, but if you notice in the beginning laying out the description of the study he added the word “healthy” before the word vegan. So I say, bias and invalidated 💯🤣🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Bullshit from someone who doesn't bother to understand the Details. 14 days is a joke. The body for old on obese people needs ~ 14 days to adapt to keto or even longer if they also don't do fasing. Start the 14 days if they have a blood sugar below 85mg/dl and then compare.
Pat Aherne thumbs down to you.
Yes you still use clickbait titles on your channel, giving the impression that everything is healthy just because it’s Keto, while making recipes of chocolate pudding (!) and pizza (!) 🤦♂️
I love the attitude in this video. Also great conclusions.
I have been doing Keto for 4 months and it's the best thing that have happen to me (sound dramatic but true haha 😅). I have no doubt that a vegan diet is really good also. I think keto only get an edge (in weightloss) when it's a longer period then 2 weeks (especially for people new on keto), when restricting calories and when combined with intermediate fasting. For long time living (when you are at your target weight) a vegan diet would probable work perfect.
Your conclusion at the end about processed foods is the key takeaway.
Vegan diet is extremely poor if you need protein. That's why most vegans waste away
12 years a Covid slave ...
As a large black man I approve this message for EVERYONE.
Glad to see you are doing well Dr. I appreciate your candor and time. I'm sure you have noticed the huge abundance of educational or even consumption worthy material on youtube. (Eye roll) ...it's just a blessing to have you care about this muddled species enough to share this knowledge that most of us couldn't afford if we stole your beard and made Brawny commercials. Again...Thanks !
You’ve highlighted my thoughts about these diets exactly. Both of these diet can be done with highly processed foods which can make them both very unhealthy. Especially with current marketing of processed food products that are labeled as keto or vegan friendly. The goal in doing one fo these diets should be to learn how to remove processed foods from your diet.
After going Keto for a short period I realized how important it was to remove such highly processed carbs like sugar and micronutrient deficient highly processed grains. I lost about 25 lbs and have maintained it by avoiding added sugars and processed grains, but replacing them with home made bread and eating lots of fruit like berries.
Fiber is an X factor that can be used to suppress hunger and can be taken in decent quantities on both diets.
Problem with studies like this is the people setting up the study do so at their understanding such as supplying not true keto foods. He said there was no change in hunger or feeling full. That tells me the people were not truly in ketosis. I can easily go days without eating and not be hungry.
I lost 40 lbs and over 10% in body fat in about 3 months on the keto diet and when in ketosis, there is very little hunger if any at all.
He also said its not about reducing heart attack or stroke risk. After going keto docs pulled me off my heart meds, blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, constipation meds and said I no longer need to be monitored for strokes. I went on keto after having a stroke.
People on keto diet eat veggies, vegans don’t eat meat. Keto doesn’t have the nutrient deficiency veggie only can have.
High insulin levels have many health issues, there is only diet that lowers insulin levels.
Both diets are limited by what you eat. Being a vegan eating bad non orgainc food is not going to help. Same goes with Keto and eating bad fats like canola or soybean oil. Potatoes are vegan and one of the worst things a diabetic or prediabetic can eat. Worse than pure table sugar. Glycemic index is almost 50% higher.
I’ve talked with hundreds of people on the keto diet, every one who is doing it right has had significant weight loss and health improvements. Same with vegan.
The particular diet isn’t as important as how well you do the diet. If you don’t do any diet but eat organic, healthy fats, healthy meats, cut sweets and watch your quantity you’ll be better off.
Which vitamin vegans lack besides B12? And they can also get in ketosis when fasting so that would be a different factor to examine
@@julianereis7024 Choline, creatine, DHA and many more including all of the fat-soluble vitamins A, E, D, and K. Also 84% of new vegans quit within 5 years and 91% of those cite their reason for quitting as catastrophic health failure including destruction of their gut due to excessive fiber intake.
@@kayallen7603 omg how terrible how did our ancestors survive since there’s a lack of vitamins in fruits and veggies and our liver can’t produce any protein from sources other than aminoacids from other animals
@@julianereis7024 indeed our ancestors ate meat and very little veggies (wasn't any farming then, not much veggies in one place) and almost no fruit (only seasonal, just to gain some weight in order to survive the winter). where are you getting your info from? humans evolved eating meat.
When I did keto for 3 months, my lipid panel was the worst it’s ever been and it had been normal prior. Cholesterol over 200! Vegan life for me. Also, I don’t eat sugar and bread and junk, just simple foods that involve a lot of veggies
People coming back to normal life after trial: now I can finally go outside again and enjoy life!
2020:
Important to note that when vegans come across as pushy on this topic, it probably isn't because they're proselytising about the health benefits of a plant-based diet, but because of what animals go through to get meat, dairy, and eggs on people's plates.
No they’re pushy about the “health benefits” too.
I have been told that eating meat and drinking milk was give to give me cancer and heart disease and, I quote, they “can’t wait to be at your bedside when you are dying of a heart attack and whisper in your ear, ‘you should have listened’.”
Also eggs and diary are fine products. They don’t harm the animals in anyway and they often welcome humans to take away their excess. And eggs are not chicken periods because only select mammals get periods.
@@kimmiewise1044 Cows literally have to be raped to produce milk, and are separated from their young when they’re born. It’s not a “fine product@
@@kimmiewise1044 Saying "I can't wait to be at your bedside when you are dying" is a horrible thing to say. I hope that person lets go of their nastiness. I would hope that those kinds of people are still a minority.
I thought the same thing about dairy and eggs as well. If the animal doesn't have to be killed to make the food, then what's wrong with it? I later found out there was a hell of a lot wrong with both.
Dairy: th-cam.com/video/UcN7SGGoCNI/w-d-xo.html
In order to produce milk, cows need to give birth, so first they are inseminated (usually artificially, where a human will shove their fist up the cows anus and inject the semen into their vagina). Upon giving birth to her calves, they will be taken away from her within days, which causes the mother intense emotional distress. The females will go on to live the same life as their mother , the males (because they can't make milk) will either be fattened up and stabbed in the throat to make veal, or just shot in the head when they are a couple days old because it's cheaper. And when a dairy cow's milk production declines, after 4 or 5 pregnancies, she will sent to the slaughterhouse to be stabbed in the throat and turned into beef.
Eggs: th-cam.com/video/utPkDP3T7R4/w-d-xo.html
Similar issue. At the hatchery, the female chicks ones are sent down one chute, to lay eggs, and the male ones (because they don't produce eggs), are sent down another chute... to be ground up alive in an industrial macerator. Or sometimes they are gassed, or tied up in a plastic bag and left to suffocate. And, of course, the hens will eventually be sent to have their throats slit and be turned into nuggets.
Yes. But I wish they would stick to that. When vegans proselytise about the cruelty of farming, they’re annoying, but they’re not incorrect. That’s a matter of individual morality.
Whereas when they proselytise that a vegan diet is healthier. They’re just objectively wrong.
Now sure, a diet of mostly vegetables is probably healthier. But just cutting out animal products does not automatically make a healthy diet.
Thank you. If the human body was so fickle with food, we would've died out a long time ago. Likely some diet is better or more optimal than another, but the main issues are highly processed, high artificial sugar foods combined with a sedintary lifestyle. Outside of that, it still feels very much up in the air on what is best for everyone. Experiment, see what works best for you.
Your premise is faulty. We only have to survive long enough to reproduce in order to not die out.
@@pattygould8240 And as we all know, homo sapiens sapiens become sexually mature very quickly, right? No. We actually take longer than most other mammals. It generally takes more than a decade and a half for the avg female to be physically capable of reproduction. 15-17 years of nutrition does indeed matter, and if our nutritional requirements were so specific, we wouldn't have lasted those 15-17 years to begin with.
@@camelusdromedarius3789that's a small fraction of our life expectancy. Poor nutrition takes a little longer than that to kill us.
Ah yes the old "Don't blame animal products that unequivocally cause heart disease, blame processed garbage and sugary foods." argument.
Yes, as someone mentio ed your premise is faulty.
It is enough to live up to 25 and thats it. Have children with 13 - 16, live uo to 30 maximum and voila.
Our ancestors ate what they could, it was surviving, not living to have a healthy balanced diet and live long.
The best guidance I've heard on this subject is "if it contains refined sugar or refined flour, cut it out". It takes away about 90% of processed food, and it's really easy to determine if food has refined sugar or flour in it.
Or the plant based version : If it has animals in it ,cut it out.
Not only a superior approach for weight loss but more Importantly for the planet and the other animals that live here.
Or the keto version: If it has animals in it, eat it and enjoy
@@DAMfoxygrampa Yeah , except it's not as good for fat loss , it's destroying the natural world , and of course somebody needlessly losses their life.
@@isupportthecurrentthing.1514 who says its not as good for fat loss? you can point to the graphs in the video but 2750 calories a day is still more than the average people need especially locked up in a house!! so where does it store excess energy? in fat cells. you bring that amount of calories inline with the plant based one which looks around 2100 and itll fair just as good
@@isupportthecurrentthing.1514 “good for the planet”
*Millions of trees being destroyed for plantations, hundreds of millions of small mammals, snakes, lizards and other animals being killed for growing crops*
Bantu Holomisa: oh no no no no
i eat keto + plant based diet. I just avoid sugar as much as i can, especially sodas, and high sugar desserts as well as oil fried and other kinds of fast foods.
That is the safest way to do keto, plant based keto is the only form of keto that doesn't increase mortality. In fact plant based keto has lower mortality than people following a standard western diet.
@@georgehornsby2075 It's not hard to have a lower mortality rate than the standard western diet is it now.
@@georgehornsby2075 read the first sentence. I can’t believe keto isn’t slang for drugs.
@@goode612 type 1 diabetic here. A1C from 6.4 eating carbs to 5.7 on carnivore. Never felt better, both mentally and physically. I’ve actually been more active because I’ve felt better. I lost weight unnecessarily, too. Doctor says bloodwork is excellent.
@@InfinityChris I am type 2, and went from unknown a1c down to 5.2 on a low carb diet with plants and a fairly large amount of meat. then, my liver area was hurting, and got diagnosed with fatty liver (which i'm sure has been the case for a long time.) i switched to a lower meat, more plants, still low carb diet and the pain went away in a few months. lost around 70 pounds, too. i still have insulin resistance. btw the food is fine.
2 weeks is actually the time it takes you to get into real ketosis the next 2 weeks should be compared not the first 2 weeks. the study should be 8 weeks at least and first 2 weeks of both diets must be discounted because no diet actually starts making any significant/real difference in first 2 weeks.
Surely this study proves that wrong, since there were clear differences between the two groups! There is clearly a real / significant difference in the first two weeks.
@@dex6630 lol nope it was not significant in overall health of the individuals.
The first warning sign looking at the study is that the main finding seems to be that the LF group ate less calories than the LC group. Note that they didn't find any significant result in how much fat both groups lost, just look at the results in the paper. This paper is basically arguing for what ketoers has been saying "a calorie is not a calorie".
some othe points
1) 10% fat is not keto, 5% is keto. And especially for beginners, you should start with less than 20g of carbs to be on the safe side. Looking at the figure containing how much calories the participants ate, the average "ketoer" ate over 2500kcal, which is more than 50g of carbs. This is not keto.
2) Short term weight loss is worthless, most people gain the weight back and then some. It's all about the long-term viability.
3) Ketogenic is not a quick fix, it takes a month or two to fully adapt. You can count on eating a lot the first 2 weeks since your body is screaming for sugars and the only way to stop it is to eat more. This holds truer when you're a random participant in an experiment and have no knowledge about the keto process and don't utilize discipline.
Again, this paper only says that the LF group ate less calories than the LC group. It didn't show any significant result in terms of fat loss. I don't think we should discount the study, ketoers should be encouraged that they can eat more and still lose the same amount of fat as the LC group.
I find it strange , I don't know if Medlife Crisis knows what the word significant means, but he seems to use it when he pleases. He said that LF lost more fat than the LC, but there was no signficiant result which he didn't mention. He was quick to mention that the keto group lost water weight and no significant fat loss. He also said "there was no body fat loss", but looking at the diagram you obviously see some loss of fat mass. It's so manipulative to try to come off as "unbiased" while selectively chosing what to convey and not convey. This is not an unbiased video.
He didn't even show the insulin and glucose charts which heavily favored the LC group. He showed all other charts.
@@irtzashahanpk
Excellant breakdown.
Pity most will overlook your comments.
Critical thinkers are a rare breed :)
@@maximt1401thanks for the kind words mate
I like your #1 intervention. "Cut intake of processed foods to nearly zero". I follow the intersection of the Mediterranean and Keto diets with Intermittent Fasting thrown in for good measure. Processed foods are by default zero. I've been doing it for 3 years now and feel so much better than I did a decade ago. Diagnosed type 2 diabetes with full metabolic syndrome, irritable bowel, and sleep apnea over 25 years ago. Now I have none of those symptoms. I don't try to push Keto on people, just start with no processed foods or added sugar first, and then look at eating to reduce inflammation. I believe in the end every individual's optimal diet is different.
You do what you do, scientists job is to show the world scientific evidences. Was it the keto that made you healthy, or the controlled diet? I've heard the argument that "vegans are healthier than the average person", which is true, not because vegan diets are good for you, but because they're better than the average diet, which is crap.
@@MrLoowiz The problem with this study is in the title. Keto is not animal based. Keto is fat based and the best sources of fat come from plants. The study was a waste of time. Stating that the keto diet depends on animals is demonstrably false. Not just vegans, but everyone who gives attention to their diets is healthier than the average person.
It's good that you don't push keto on people because it is a dangerous diet.
@@goku445 The Standard American Diet (SAD) is the true dangerous diet.
@@goku445 you just let everyone know that you don't know anything about the keto diet, or nutrition in general.
As someone whose BMI is almost exactly 28, that felt like a profoundly offhand way of calling me out xD
SAME
The BMI scale is weird. The range that is considered normal is really narrow. I keep hitting one end or the other of normal weight every time I step on a scale.
Haven't seen a BMI under 30 in nearly twenty years. Even when I was fit and 50 lbs lighter
@@HansPeter-qg2vc You gain and lose 30-40 pounds regularly? The normal range may be a bit narrow, but that’s not insignificant.
@@HansPeter-qg2vc , The range is quite wide. Fifference is 18-23kg between limits. To me that sounds an extreme weight changes in a short period of time.
I used 5 and 95 percentile heights and 18.5 to 25 normal index range. Formula to calculate your width is (25-18.5)*height_in_meters^2
I'm well aware that BMI has problems. It is just a generalised approximation while in real world personal normal ranges vary a lot based on muscle mass, height etc.
I follow a ketogenic diet now and I only eat once or twice a day and far less food than when I ate the high carb low fat diet. I'm rarely hungry and sometimes forget to eat. On the high carb low fat I was eating constantly and hungry all the time. An added bonus was my mood swings stopped and depression virtually disappeared overnight.
I find it’s the opposite for me, high complex carb and low fat is so easy and I think of it as a lifestyle not a diet, whereas when I was on the ketogenic it’s more of a diet so when I lost the weight I put it straight back on.
@@toriwori6308 It's true that there is no one way to eat that suits everyone. I'm very carb intolerant and automatically gain weight on high carb whereas it falls off on low carb. Best we can do is avoid processed food with lots of sugar. I don't think of low carb as a diet it has become an instinctive way of eating for me and I just naturally follow it. As I said I'm not hungry and don't have to eat much for satiety.
@@10AntsTapDancing I think it's even more nuanced and relative than that. For example, there are some high carb foods out there that are or can be relatively low glycemic and provide a lot of satiety. For a couple examples, lentils, and smaller potatoes with the skins eaten with some fat and/or protein.
I think bodies in general like variety and eating more intune with the seasons. When it's hot AF outside, I really dislike eating high protein and/or fat meals because it raises my metabolism and makes me feel hotter (and being male, muscular, and primarily of Scottish Highlander and Germanic type stock, I run pretty warm as is). Great for those late fall to early spring days cold days though. When it's really hot, I like fruits, salads, veggies, and healthier, less glycemic spiking carbs more. I might have a more fat and/or protein heavy meal later in the evening as it cools down.
Look at nature and what it provides. Take the Inuit vs the average tropical and subtropical peoples. The primary foods provided for people there, naturally speaking, fit the conditions and climes fairly well. It's almost like nature has this built in intelligence and balance...
Generally speaking though, I am definitely somewhat sensitive to carbs and have lowered the intake over time and do feel better. And while I still eat carbs plenty, I stick to certain ones more so like quinoa, lentils, green peas, small potatoes with skin (and always eaten with fat and/or protein), sweet potatoes, etc. These don't make me feel tired and blah like a lot of other kinds do, and I almost always eat these with plenty of non starchy veggies, some goat, sheep, or homemade cultured cashew/pea protein/nutritious yeast/kelp cheese which further slows down sugar uptake and metabolism.
Your best comment was how close plant based and keto actually is. I do Keto but the trick for me is eating a tone load of vegetables. Get the best of both worlds. The high fiber filling effect of plants combined with the healthy fats and bio-available protein from meat. The traditional strict keto macro ratios can be miss leading due to low vegetable and moderate protein intake.
The vegan diet is not usually chosen for health reasons though, but for ethical and environmental reasons. So even if it comes out similar or worse to keto, it shouldn’t matter :)
I mean if a diet is killing me by starving me of essential nutrients, I don’t think I’ll do much good for the environment or the “movement” dead.
@@kimmiewise1044 you do know that there are millions of Indians living vegan lifestyles culturally for millennia, healthily?
If you die of nutrient deficiency it’s your fault. :)
But since death is actually the best thing you can do for the environment, that’s okay
@@hayati6374
Actually meat consumption is lower in Bangladesh than in India. And it's a myth that most Indians are vegans. Few are. Many are lacto vegetarians. But many also are flexitarians(they eat meat infrequently, including myself).
@@manubhatt3 I was thinking about people following Jainism :)
And while it’s a minority within India, they are still a lot of people (Wikipedia says ~4 millions). That’s a good sample size :)
Vegan lifestyle is for ethical reasons to end the exploitation of animals as reasonably and practicable. Anybody else replacing this primary reason is actually plant based not vegan, it's fine to have an extension like environmental or health as secondary, but it is not primary reason of the philosophy of veganism.
The most balanced view on this topic I’ve heard so far. Just start from cutting down on processes food.
You could also alternate keto with vegan days to give your system a bit of a rest. As you say, the important thing is to stay clear of the rubbish and the extra large portions....whether keto or vegan, organic really is the best and worth paying a little more for.....
@@panchopuskas1 I do not think that alternating keto / vegan days would work. For Keto you switch the body into ketosis (fat burning, which might take a few days) and for vegan your body will switch to carb burning again. I guess you need longer time periods when switching between both
@@jensuwe22 I think you can do vegan keto with lots of seeds and nuts, since they are high in fat and protein but low in carbs.
@@EroUsagiSama I guess it is possible, but it sounds not like fun ;)
@@jensuwe22 if you’re proper weight though it should be fine, it’s really about satiation
Years ago I tried the low carb Atkins diet for a month. I lost a bit of weight, but I felt horrible and my immunity significantly dropped. I said a definite no to all diets. Recently, battling my hormone imbalance, I decided to go vegetarian and finally vegan. I can honestly confirm what he said about people eating less. I'm satisfied with smaller portions and don't feel hungry all the time, plus my energy is back.
Well vegans eat vegetables, and keto people eat meat and vegetables. So maybe you have some food allergies if adding some meat makes - which is just soem fat and proteins all perfectly fine for the body - you feel bad.
Keto sucks
@KaczynskiCel both
Interesting. I have tried both vegetarian and vegan. I even tried the whole foods vegan Dr. Berg style. There were benefits, but being satisfied with smaller portions wasn't one of them. I was constantly hungry. I could eat and in an hour and a half I was hungry again. It was horrible.
@@myrhev I watched interesting Ted Talk about how perfect diet doesn't exist, because it is dictated by our gut bacteria and these guys are different in every person
I have done both diets, 14 days is most deffinalty not anywhere near enough to reach any real conclusions about one being better than the other.
Which one would you say was better for you?
Also quite curious
@@stephanies3862 tried both. Keto for a few months, vegan for a few weeks. Simply went on for longer with keto as my body felt a lot better/healthier on that diet. I’d say that feeling healthier could be attributed to consuming more organic foods than I normally would. Overall it depends on how your own body reacts on it. Keep close contact with a nutritionist and keep measuring what nutritional deficits you have. Also exercise every day for at least 30 minutes.
@@stephanies3862 I've done keto. Two weeks is definitely not enough to draw conclusions. It is correct that there is an initial weight loss from water. After that, people typically plateau for a while. How long the plateau lasts is very individual. After that, there is fat loss as the body grows more accustomed to burning fat for energy. It's definitely worth looking into and researching. But people need to know about that plateau before they start, so they don't get discouraged.
I agree! Try each for 14 weeks, then lets talk.
I've been keto for 6 years and I love your approach to this.
I do ketosis because it works for me and I feel great (and my health markers show this) BUT I understand that not everything works for everyone - I've seen people thrive on carnivore diets, veganism, vegetarian, paleo, weight watchers etc etc -
All of us "hardcore dieters" have a diet or lifestyle that got us to understand what healthy eating actually is AKA stop eating the processed rubbish and understand the effect different foods have to our bodies.
Will I ever agree with a low fat vegan eater? Probably not! But it's their journey not mine. If it works for them, I'm happy for them.
Merch alert - Dr Rohins Beard Oil!
Veganism is not a diet. It should say ‘plant based’ instead.
I was going to a shop with my dad the other day and we parked next to a cop. I commented to a the cop, "A year ago, if you saw two men get out of a car, put on masks and walk into a shop, you'd go after them. Now you go after them if they *DIDN'T* put masks on"
She just laughed and said, "How times change"
Lol
you managed to crack a joke so you have to share it on youtube lol
As a vegetarian the problem with "being friends" with keto eaters is more a issue of ethics, both climate impact, and animal rights. I don't doubt it as a way to loose weight, but to me that is a factor I would not prioritize at all. I see the health benefits of plant based diets as a bonus more than a reason for doing so.
With that said, I don't care all that much about other people's choices of diet, but I'd still argue for a plant based should the discussion arise.
No, the reason people ate less on a vegan diet is because it contains more fiber, and fiber makes you feel full because it bloats you. Meat and animal products are really easy to digest. Also two weeks on one of the diets is just way too short. It's very difficult to get good results from this study therefore.
But I think we can all agree that cutting out all the processed shit is gonna help you either way.
And they didn't eat less by amount of food. They ate less calories. Protiens and carbs are 4 calories, fats 9 calories, but the same exact gram amount. They may have eaten the exact same amount in grams!
Since keto reduces carbs significantly, I'm not sure how that diet would do that? Theoretically possible, but hard to see, without something really strange likely purely pea protein. The photos in the video don't suggest that. It may be that indigestible fiber was increased.
@@bearcubdaycare Do the math. First twice as many carbs (8+4+9=21 calories), now twice as many fats (4+4+18=26 calories)
Same amount of total macronutrient grams, carb(4 or 8)+protein(4)+fat(9 or 18), in different ratios. Same 4 gram total.
🧮
I am a flexitarian and eat meat very infrequently. I noticed that when I eat mutton(goat) as much as I do vegetables in a meal, I do feel heavy but I could skip easily the next two meals(even if it's the next day).
Good video! The best diet for everyone is a diet that they can stick too that allows them to eat more wholesome foods.
Very true. Still, the fact that most weight loss on a Keto diet is from loss of water (not fat) is cause for concern.
@@shtroizn cut out carbs and u will lose water.
"Insulin: When insulin goes down, the kidneys start shedding excess sodium from the body. This also lowers blood pressure (15).
Glycogen: The body stores carbs in the form of glycogen, which binds water in the muscles and liver. When carb intake goes down, glycogen levels in the body go down, and the water follows along."
www.healthline.com/nutrition/why-do-low-carb-diets-work#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3
Nothing dangerous, just what keto diets do
Ideallly, if its the vegan diet that they stick to, all the better
Ok think found the explanation. Both diets in this study were devoid of proteins. Either 75% fat 10% carbs (keto) or 75% carbs 10% fats (vegan). Since Protein Leverage Hypothesis dictates that humans will seek out ca 20-25% protein ad libitum, as every species seeks out unconsciously a certain protein percentage intake. The plant based option was more filling and provided more trace proteins, plus protein sparing effects of carbohydrates. Hence the protein intake was met earlier than the Keto group. A higher protein, healthy keto diet could have shifted the result the other way.
That beard gives me "Captain Haddock if he weren't an alcoholic" vibes
Totally irrelevant to the content of the video, but you look great. You really suit that outfit.
From my own experience, just getting rid of processed foods and getting in more fiber does wonders. I’ve lost weight on all kinds of diets over the years, high fat, low fat, even a high carb junk food diet. Counting calories has never failed me. That being said processed food is not very satiating so staying in a caloric deficit eating lots of it is difficult
I'm vegan (because it seems to help my Rheumatoid Arthritis), and one of the biggest problems in recent times is the HUGE amount of processed vegan food that is now available... I'm really struggling to lose weight at the moment because of all the yummy processed crap around at the moment.
Interesting study - thank you for highlighting.
“That your best friend Karen promises you!” Lol is there no escape for poor Karen?
Karen knows what she did, and knows she deserves it. 😂
Who’s Karen?!
The irony of getting a candy bar ad right at the end of this 😅
As an American i concur on the fact we eat way way way too much processed foods. We get in a rat race with work/kids/traffic and processed foods are right there in our face...easy and cheap. I'm on keto currently and crave processed foods but I'm trying to get over it (sausage, cheese, etc.). With so much processed food at our fingertips it's hard to get away from especially if having limited time for cooking/planning/shopping.
7:14 There's a typo in that text box. 'does' should be 'doesn't'
How do you compare these two? You can be vegan and still be completely keto
I've been on keto for 10 months. I've lost a dramatic amount of body fat. I didn't notice any significant amount of weight loss until about a month and a half in.
He did show the keto people lost weight as well. I was just surprised the plant based group did better after all the crap the keto people talk on them. Lol.
@@Burps6 I watched the whole video. My point was that 2 weeks wasn't enough for me to notice much of anything, let alone a loss of water weight.
Now go whole food plant based because keto is unhealthy long term.
@@goku445 wtf, dude? What difference does it make to you what I eat?
And I keenly remember the vegetarian and vegan ideologues that assured me that I wouldn't lose weight on keto when I considered it over a decade ago. If you guys were wrong then maybe you're wrong now too.
@@Bluedragon094 Why are you posting comments if you can't handle a simple reply?
Did you really watch the video? A lot of the weight loss is just water on the keto diet.
Also losing weight is not the most important, what's important is your health and keto is really bad short and long term.
The scientific literature on the "keto" diet is quite clear. It is a dangerous diet. It was used first as a treatment for kids with epilepsy so we have a lot of studies on its effects short and long term :
Low carbs diets increase all cause of mortality : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3555979/pdf/pone.0055030.pdf
Increase risk of kidney stones : journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0883073807301926?journalCode=jcna
Full study : sci-hub.se/journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0883073807301926?journalCode=jcna&
Death : Acute pancreatitis causing death in a child on the ketogenic diet. High fat www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11575609
Sudden Cardiac Death in Association With the Ketogenic Diet : pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19027591/
More adverse effects : onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.0013-9580.2004.10004.x
www.researchgate.net/publication/7253814_The_ketogenic_diet_From_molecular_mechanisms_to_clinical_effects
The "paleo mom's" (Dr. Sarah Ballantyne, PhD) list of adverse effects : www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised/
Study with large list of adverse effects, deficiency:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.0013-9580.2004.10004.x
Low carbohydrate diets may increase risk of neural tube defects :
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29368448/
"... and I have no diet books or diet plans to sell you."
"This is Dr. Rohin Francis signing off from Woolwich Ferry, East London and definitely not recommending eels, mash and liquor"
very interesting study and video,just to begin im not following any specific diet,
but i have to say that the non starchy vegan diet is like they did an adjustment just to make sure they will not have bad results. every diet has a clean and dirty version, but to remove the starches from the vegan diet is like a complete change to the diet
@Dean Clark in the same sense not all vegans are raw vegans living off veggies alone.
i honestly dont understand how vegans are so skinny.. oreos are vegan, beer is vegan & 90% of the vegans i know STACK the carbs, bread, grains, ect. there are the few vegans that are eating mostly vegitables. but then theres the ones eating fruit,bread & oreos daily. not to mention that almost every vegan substitute is completely PACKED with carbs.. like eating a burger patty has 30g of carbs, thats insane to me. (im not hating, i was vegan for 9months) i loved being vegan, i just simply do not understand how vegans are all paper thin.
Jokes on you, first world citizens. My income is so low that callory deficit is a no-brainer without no diets.
😂 absolutely, life in 3rd world countries be like
Nonsense, I bet you can still afford to chug down a whole bottle of vegetable oil every day 😉
@@giovanni-cx5fb we don't use it here, we use palm oil
You can still be overweight even if you’re poor. Eat only bread with margarine, fried potato in the cheapest oil, etc. in huge amounts..your calorie deficit is your choice.
@@corniel657 palm still vegetable oil
Thank you for this summary! What I find most striking here, almost shocking, is that such a trivial study with a low number of participants and a very short observation period could be published in a high-quality journal like Nature Medicine. That´s almost incredible - it basically shows that this kind of research is still at the beginning. Also, did this study also look at e.g., parameters such as growth hormone secretion (might be higher in the low carb, keto group), cholesterol, blood pressure, muscle mass - I guess for all those parameters to be delivering valuable data, the study should have been much larger and conducted over at least 6 months or 1 year. Perhaps this lockdown period is really a possibility to recruit larger numbers of participants, however, lockdowns might end soon. I´m still kind of shocked that this here could be published in Nature Medicine.
there are no high-quality journals anymore - they've been bought along with the researchers.
Also it'd be more interesting and reliable if they did it for longer periods than 2 weeks per diet. It takes a bit longer for all hormones to balance out after a big diet change
Depends on the person. Some people adapt overnight it seems like. That's why these studies need to be taken with a grain of salt.
I’ve seen so many health and exercise experts on soc media go off about this, and they keep insisting that “carbs are not your enemy”, blah blah, and I’m like yeah, sure? It’s just that really starchy carbs (pasta, bread, potatoes, sugar) make me bloated, tired and I end up having this awful lingering pain in my abdomen. I like carbs in the form of leafy greens, broccoli, and berries - all of which I eat a lot, combined with fats and protein, and I find that my body responds really well to this. I’m not preaching to ppl online that they should all try Keto or that it works for everyone, because that’s just it - I don’t think there’s one exact diet that works for everyone. For me, cutting out certain carb-rich foods is necessary. So it does bug me a little when all these PTs and fitness influencers go online to, like, “berate” anyone who wants to cut carbs.
I was a vegan for two years and ended up gaining SO much weight. I was at the highest weight when I finally decided to abruptly switch over to Keto, and the results were immediate. I don’t know if it was the carbs I consumed during my years as a vegan, or the soy/other meat substituted that rendered my body an inflamed mess, all I know is that I’m glad I stopped. For me, personally, it just didn’t work out. I did not feel healthy - more like the opposite: I was in pain. My digestive system was just NOT on board. (That’s not to say I think a vegan diet is bad - I’m convinced it has great health benefits, aside from the purely moral/environmental aspects. I still try not to over-consume meat.)
"*this does imply it is the ONLY option, simply that it has evidence supporting it being a good option." maybe: "this does NOT imply..." is meant. Either that or I'm lost. 7:15
I had to go back and reread the text to figure out what you're talking about. First time around, my subconscious autocorrect added the "not" without telling my conscious brain about it^^
He went and wrote NOT in the descriptions, so you are correct.
The vegan food being filling thing is a pretty recognised phenomenon (it causes issues for people who go on extra restrictive diets like only eating raw vegan food, because the sheer amount you have to eat to meet nutritional needs is physically difficult). It's interesting, I wonder if the reason this conclusion wasn't more anticipated is because 'plants are less dense' is too simple of an explanation for those who want complex 'scientific' explanations for why diets are good/bad.
'Eat your vegetables ' is not the ' biohack ' that the bros are looking for .
Exactly. What a surprise fruit and veggies have fibre and meat doesn’t! Ground breaking stuff 😆
study period should have been atleast 3 weeks.