We Built a HP Dyno: Do M12 "1/3 HP" Die Grinders Really Beat Air?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS now includes Die Grinders: torquetestchan... RA Air grinder: amzn.to/3gQKCHF M12 is currently $152 if you need cordless: amzn.to/3ESsAN... and RA w/ burrs: amzn.to/3gTaYsK
As always Torque who started this channel is working for Astro Tools who's 201 and 204 air die grinders were also included in this testing, though assuming a die grinder is healthy, most 1/3HP die grinders should make around this same power. It's all about durability, gear smoothness and ergonomics after that. So while these air models make more power compared to M12 CORDLESS, they in themselves aren't unusual in that regard.
People with our lifetime tool ranking would have seen Die Grinders added early this week: etsy.me/3G8j3QK It's worth noting that *the efficiency of a motor spun as a generator is NOT close to 100%* , so like with the rest of the testing on this channel with torque, lumens and otherwise, the value will be in the comparisons between tools, which becomes greater as the list is filled out. Also why the title is "Do Milwaukee 1/3 HP Die Grinders Really Beat Air?" and not "Do Milwaukee 1/3 HP Die Grinders Really Make 1/3HP?" Recommend some cordless die grinders we may not have considered below!
As always, Torque who started this channel works in product development for Astro Tools, who also makes the 201 & 204 models in this episode. Not that they make unusually high power compared to most, we find die grinder quality mainly has to do with vibration and durability. Power is usually determined by air motor size. TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!
I wonder, if you could use something like a MPPT circuit, to get more accurite numbers.
I would say that order of importance in the quality of the tool is durability, power, noise, vibration. Please add sound level to the testing. Some are really unbearable to use. I had a HF die grinder gear box explode on me in less than 10 minutes use. I wouldn't use one again if you paid me to.
I was goin to point out the efficiency. Considering the motor and bearing losses I think that 75% is a good number.
DC motors are actually quite inefficient, I would say 50-60% is a good conservative estimate for peak efficiency and efficiency varies greatly with speed/torque/power output - peak efficiency usually happens at 25% or below of stall torque. I'm not sure if or how any of this changes when the motor is being used as a generator, but I can't imagine it would get better. To get good results, you could keep the DC motor and electronic load but would really need to add some kind of torque sensor - the simplest would be a thin shaft designed to act as a torsion beam with hall effect sensors or encoders at each end. You don't even need very accurate sensors to do this - just measuring the phase difference between the two signals will let you calculate exactly how much the shaft twists under load, and it would be easy to calibrate this setup with a known accurate torque wrench.
Working on a brake dyno as well, we'll see if we can shrink it down for use on smaller power tools as well.
I dig the right angle and after years of cordless I just don't see myself firing up the compressor and dragging out the headphones and air hose.
It's size is hard to argue with, and in some situations does anything you need it to. Just isn't a powerhouse or quite comparable to air yet at this size
@@TorqueTestChannel and price...once youve got the compressor etc and its gonna be running in your shop anyway.......size and tool price have a lot of weight....im a body guy....that compressor will be running for another 20 years at least in the industry.(electrics and plastics dont like paint thinners)
I havent used the compressor in 4 years . Other than for the blow gun. . Cordless have made air tools redundant and a few mains powered tools too.
@@kazzTrismus Right, but you don't just get to write off the cost of anything from the cheapest minimum usable compressor, line, & fittings to a full shop air system with all the bells & whistles. I mean, good luck trying to make an entire collection of cordless tools cost as much as a full shop air system + air tools.
It's literally case dependent
I am unaware of any other use I have for my right angle that is not used in cleaning gasketed surfaces. Being cordless is sooooooo handy in a super tight engine bay.
Have you considered calibrating your dyno against a reference output (e.g. an industrial 1/3hp motor)? This would allow you to compensate for the inefficiencies of the dyno's motor/generator.
Since we are talking high-rpm measurements, a high-speed reference source would be needed... perhaps the reference source could be a duplicate of the dyno motor/generator.
Would love to see at least some attempt at calibration of this setup, although it's definitely not a safe assumption that the motor they're using as a load has linear/equal losses across its RPM range so they'd need to test it at a few different speeds to get a curve. Not hugely important if they end up testing all their tools about the same RPM, but could be a confounding factor if there's a big speed difference between two tools.
Yes, this Dyno needs two main changes:
1. Measure torque directly, not through a DC motors current. Wheatstone bridge load cell for the dyno motor will give a direct torque reading (and can be calibrated).
2. Loading the tools with constant torque, not constant power. This will prevent the sudden drop-off of some tools because the control loop of the battery tester is not actively dressing them down.
Yea I would not trust the actual number that came off this dyno. It's not going to be particularly accurate without calibration of some form.
Should be decently repeatable though and okay for showing that one tool puts more than another.
So glad to see this! I have both Milwaukee's and absolutley love them. The biggest difference for me is when you have parts washer solvent or brake cleaner on you hands from cleaning parts, the cordless electric grinders don't freeze your hands! I hate that about air tools. Also, for what it's worth, Milwaukee says in the directions to only use 2" accessories on these. When you were stalling it grinding the hub I saw you had 3" on it. I use it all the time with 2" Roloc abrasives and it works excellent. The air definitely has more power and better run time but the frozen hands and air hose mean I will never even consider going back to air now that I have these two Milwaukees. That's my $.02 at least. Keep up the great work guys!
Good point about the temp, although composite grinders help a lot in that regard.
I have a lot of m12 tools and some air tools for deburr for aircraft work. Ive been using air tools for years. But have been considering buying the m12 grinders. I only have an 8gal compressor and the way im thinking about it is i could buy the m12 grinders for less than a big quality made compressor. All that depending on how they comparatively perform. If they are really good then it makes sense for me to buy the grinders.
Can't forget about how much quieter they are hah.
@@mgmjferg89 Get the Milwaukee's, I work on race cars and the right angle is essential for quick work.
Yes, Drill testing sounds awesome. Most reviewers just use a torque meter while screwing a big lag into wood. Also would be interesting to test the big 18v die grinders and see where they would stack up compared to air tools of the same rated capacity. I'm liking where this is going TTC.
Yet another means of finding honesty in tool sales, well done guys. Please continue to test more tools as they become available. Brands I'd like to see are IR, Aircat (130* especially), more Astro, truck brands. Thanks for continuing to innovate and bring us great content!
Sunex makes good quality, reasonably priced air tools also Id be interested to see how honest their numbers are on one of these test rigs.
Would also love to see the aircat die grinders tested
HUGELY looking forward to drill testing. I have a DCD800 that has been a monster, but would love to see others compared!! Can we still measure drills in beans?
Oh, we'll have torque too. It's going to be grand
Man that 800 looks pretty nice I was looking at getting the dcd708 atomic drill for something compact but I think I'm gonna have to go with the 800 which is barely bigger yet stronger and not much higher cost than the atomic
I own air die grinders and the M12 right angle. If I need the sustained power or heavy loads the air tools are the way to go. Since getting the M12 though, it is my go to tool. Takes care of most jobs well and the convenience factor is a win in my opinion. Thanks for sharing!
Pretty much the norm with air. If you need to run all day in a work station air is the way to go. Plus they are simple, light, reliable and cheap. At home I have both but honestly use my battery tools more and take them with me lots of places. At work though air is king. At my old job we had 3hp air grinders (good ones like Atlas Copco) and that thing was lighter and smaller than any electric grinder yet had more than double the power. It would run non stop for hours. The tool would get COLDER the harder you worked it. Ice would even form around the ehxaust. If heat kills then this thing was self healing 🤣. But it seriously does add to an air tools life when everything runs cool.
Im really excited about this rig, my main hobby is micromobility devices like ebikes and onewheels, ive already learned a ton from your channel and the hall sensor got me more amped than I expected. So excited to see what yall do with it in the future
Instead of reading the power from the generator, you could use it just as adjustable load -- read the torque. You could have a torque transducer on the shaft, or you could mount the generator "floating" and then weigh the force at the end of a a cross member of known length. We used to have a commercial torque tester built with an eddy current brake and a round plate where we hung concentric weights off-axis. Three weights, 3 scales. The rotation was limited to 90 degrees. The brake torque was set with a DC current, manually, based on the speed display of the motor we were testing. That means we were reading the speed indicator (digital counter) and adjusted the eddy current brake until the desired speed resulted. Then we read the torque from the scale on the round plate. It worked quite well, until during one move we lost its collection of accessories and shaft adapters.
The amount of issues you ran into and still gave us a video on it is much appreciated
Great job! Thank you for the informative, not boring tests/reviews. ...and with just enough sarcasm to make the dry data more palatable! Would love to see a test of the BOSCH GWG12V-20SN 12V
You should have tried this with the 5ah M12 High Output, I can tell a massive difference in the 5ah xc and 5ah HIgh Output in tools like cutoff tool and oscillating tools. It’s amazing the High Output batteries really do deliver more chooch to the tool!
I used a friend's 90° that had the high output batteries and it seemed like it had as much power as my air powered matco. It was hard to bog.
Don't you mean the 6.0 XC? They don't make a 5.0 XC. I have both but haven't had a chance to use the 5.0 HO so I'm looking forward to that.
This was an awesome video! A lot of people, myself included, have had the 3" attachments defeat the m12 die grinder. They do excel with the 2" attachments however!
Milwaukee does say not to use 3 inch disks though because of the increased rotational inertia stalling the tool. With 2” rolocs I haven’t had any trouble.
I just got turned on to your channel a few days ago and really like what you're doing. Subscribed!
How about one on the difference between "high flow" air quick connects vs standard units of the same size? Torque/H.P. gains with die grinders and impacts? That would be cool to see.
Keep up the great content!
Hey guys thanks 4 another top quality review/info video. I have had the m12 right angle 4 2 years and mine never cuts out. Mostly use 2 inch rolocs, scotch pads and red ceramic 60g sanding but also have dies 4 it. On the video it looks like your using 3 inch, it says in the instructions 2 inch max. Im interested 2 see if the hp batteries make a difference, thanks again.
Man I love this channel. I don't even use half this stuff, have all Ryobi stuff at home and def not a pro, but I just love this stuff!
I have been using my Makita DGD800Z for close to 10 years and I have been happy with its performance. It cant be to bad as it is still the same brushed unit on sale today as it was in 2013. The beauty of the bigger cordless units like this is they run fast without freezing your hands and not being tied to a hose that gets in the way. 25K for actual grinding and not 8k for running a cutter. Worth a test if you know some one who has one?
Excellent insight for air tools I would only add a couple of brands Daewoo and Fuji as decent quality.
Looks like you could use the rig for testing angle grinder HP outputs.
Pneumatic and cordless examples. M14 nut to 1/4" shaft and a M10 to 1/4" shaft would get you hooked up to 90% of the grinders on the market. Although with some that rate up to 2000 Watts that motor might be a bit small. Same deal with Circular saws testing shaft power although the connections are no where as universal as angle grinders. In my experience there are huge differences between cordless angle grinders with quite a few only deserving of being angle sanders.
Good starting analysis of 'spinning tools'. I test larger (mill/lathe) motors and controllers with a homemade 'dyno' consisting of a large metered (volts/amps) DC motor tied to a large variable resistive load so I can measure torque/HP at different motor speeds up to 2 HP continuous. I consider usable torque to be more important than horsepower (torque x RPM) but when dealing with high speed tools , HP might be a better standard since low speed torque is almost non-existent with die grinders and air tools.
I'd love to see more air tools on here. I use air grinders all day for my job (deburring aluminum parts). The tools provided by the company work good but they have definitely seen better days so eventually I'd like my own set if I decide to stay for awhile. Top 3 things I would love to know would be Vibration, Comfort in Hand and heavy use reliability. For right angle grinders, the heights between the top of the grinder and the bottom of the grinding wheel would be great to know as well. Somethings I can't use the right angles in certain areas because they are too tall which forces me to use a half tapered roll of sandpaper which takes far longer to remove machine marks than using a disc on a grinder would. It also leaves more room for error as it's easier to keep a flat surface with the discs.
I once tested drives for Baldor Motors and Drives. That motor dyno is a good idea 💡. Only precautions would be hot 🔥 back to back testing and overheating/stressing the dyno motor. Keep up the good work.
This 800W motor never even got warm from these luckily
Can't wait to see what number you get torque testing cordless drills. The info out there isn't great or consistent and the actual vs advertised aren't even close! Should be fun! This is definitely the go to channel for a reality check!
I still want the Milwaukee grinders so bad. They are just so convenient it's worth it. I just wish they were cheaper.
My Harbor Freight die grinders have taken a beating over the years, but yeah they kinda suck and take a lot of time.
I suggest adding a size/weight category. So then you'll have a power to weight ratio, no matter if it's cordless, corded, or air. I know you have the displacement category but weight could help with operator fatigue. I worked in the finishing department of a manufacturing company thats why I suggest this.
As a welder I love this! I would be willing to send in my aircat #6280 right angle 3/4HP die grinder and 2 old old die grinders in for testing.
Ideas for testing; the aircat composite and 3/4HP series. Ingersoll Rand Edge and Max series. The Dewalt right angle die grinder I think every big box store sells. I'll need to buy a lot of merch so you can test some really expensive Chicago Pneumatic, IR, Dotco, Sioux and Dynabrade models too!
Awesome testing, always pushing the bounds of testing!
Nice addition to the channel. Looking forward to see some 1HP die grinders such as the two from Capri.
I owned both versions of the Central Pnumatic right angle die grinder for a bit. The rear exhaust version stopped working after like the second time I used it while the front exhaust one just had ridiculous levels of play in the spindle.
I now own the Chief mini right angle and and straight, both metal body and like them. The straight is perfect while the angle has a slight amount of play in the spindle, though less than my IR 301B after it got repaired under warranty for unacceptable levels of play. I'm happy to send in any of my die grinders for testing if you want.
Really appreciate the great testing, with minimal or any bias. Thanks for the videos.
Could you throw onto the chart at some point the M12 grinders with the 2.5 / 5.0 "high output" batteries? I know you tested them on the impacts, but a lot of people say that things like the grinders are what those batteries are really made for.
This would be a very good opportunity to test those new high output batteries. From what I’ve seen on the m12 circular saw, that 5.0 is a killer battery
~33 YEARS ago when I started off being a parts guy at a large tool import company, we had right angle die grinders that were (in appearance) identical to the central pneumatic one there! I'd lay you good odds the parts are still interchangeable!
Pretty much all 1/4HP aluminum body RA die grinders look like this. Very big differences in quality and price though
@@TorqueTestChannel - oh by all means! It's just crazy that after decades, the outward appearance hasn't changed at all.
I really enjoy the Milwaukee die grinders. I’ve had my set for a year now and they’re still going strong being used heavily every day. The straight stays on “3” setting and the right angle is usually “2” or “3.” I find that setting “4” on the right angle delivers diminishing returns for my applications (usually a 3” roloc sanding disc on mild steel).
Cordless wins for me since I don’t have shop air except at work, and I much prefer not having to drag the hose around constantly. I only wish they were a little less bulky. Looking forward to more tests with this rig!
I SWEAR!!! You are a genuine comedian at this! I'm not sure what i enjoy more!? the accurate data or your comedic insinuating tone on the results as they happen compared to the claims they make on the tool! Thank you ♥
If you have any questions about your new dyno's horsepower, modify it to detect the torque that the generator (motor) is putting out and multiply that by the RPM to get accurate horsepower
Yes, and they should question the numbers as the generating DC motor is no where near 100% and its actual efficiency lands on a very "peaky" efficiency curve. So, unless the output is corrected back to the efficiency curve, the numbers are almost meaningless even as a comparison, unless the speeds are the same. This is why Speed/Torque is the standard.
Wow a new dyno, very exciting!
May I add some observations as an ee. I see you were looking for a dc generator, but ac one (with magnets on the rotor) would also work probably with just a simple 3ph full bridge rectifier on the output, before the load.
Also bear in mind that generator has some losses, up to 20% since it is a dc motor so you can take those into account for true power numbers but it is not necessary for just the relative comparison.
Thank you!
Hey thanks. Yes relative comparison is the name of the game on this channel!
@@TorqueTestChannel can't wait to see more, thanks 👍
@@TorqueTestChannel To add to this, the efficiency curve of the generator is absolutely not linear, i.e. you might measure 80% of one tool making 100W at 3krpm, but just 60% of another tool making the same power at 6krpm which makes the latter look worse, even though they're equal.
Measuring actual torque or calibrating this setup would really benefit it.
Mounting the generator housing free to rotate (i.e. in a big bearing) and mounting a digital torque meter on the end to hold it would be one way to give a much more linear and calibrated reading
Your experience with the Milwaukee right angle is about the same as mine. I find it compliments it's air counterpart, not replaces it. It's convenient and sometimes I want less power.
For me it’s also about the noise. I don’t really need the power so the convenience and the fact that it’s so much quieter puts it on top in my book.
I'd definitely be interested in the Ryobi die grinder because a) I'm already in their battery ecosystem, and b) it'd be interesting to see if they upped the power for the 18v
I'm predicting much better results with the Ryobi. The Milwaukee M12 die grinder is useless.
I got the ryobi die grinder, and am extremely happy with it. I've only had it stall once, when I pushed it way beyond what it was designed to do. Theres no chance in hell you can stall it with just a finger like the milwaukee's unless youre the literal hulk. The bulky battery can, in rare cases, be an issue, but 99% of the time its not(i work on vehicles, so plenty of tight cumbersome spaces).
I'd love to see the ryobi on this new dyno though, I think it would fare pretty good... Definitively better than the milwaukee's at the very least..
Fantastic! Was just looking at die grinders the other day and wished torque test channel had tested them
Would be neat to see the ryobi, it's not small, or convenient but it's usually better than dragging a hose out or running a giant grinder for light use. I suspect the battery will make a big difference and with the dizzying amount of options it might be tricky. I run mine mostly on a 2ah lithium+ on low on low speed to clean up surfaces, If I'm prepping an area for welding or something I'll put some variation of 4ah for more runtime; I know the air tool will probably last longer, but it also runs the compressor, is loud, and makes my hands cold.
I had bad luck with the right angle HF's, almost all of the cheap ones failed, a few years ago they changed the design a bit and I just haven't seen them hold up since. I usually use an astro now, it's had a few hundred hours at least and is still fine.
Air tools do seem to have more controllability if working on delicate surfaces since restrictors and air pressure can be modulated. This can make it easy to stall them, but better than burning a hole in a panel trying to remove a bit of material.
Great testing! I used to be jealous of the m12 right angle, until I borrowed my co-workers one time. I was disappointed. The overload protection is way too sensitive, you can barely even remove gaskets with it.
It's actually one of the reasons for making the channel, same scenario. Used a co-workers who loved it and then after using was convinced he had never used air for any length of time to compare as it was just stopping constantly until you "learned" how to use it, aka a light touch always. Which he said was just a quirk of cordless, but to me reminded me of really weak air grinders with low air pressure. Looked up the specs of the tool and said it was higher than what I was already using and rolled my eyes. It's taken me a couple years to come up with a dyno that reflects that with just numbers and no opinions.
Yep they're garbage. I don't know how anyone doesn't return it as defective immediately after the first use.
@@TorqueTestChannel It’s meant for 2” wheels not 3” wheels as you have shown. It’s directly on their website. I haven’t had a problem with 2” rol-locs.
Using 2” wheels (Milwaukee says don’t use 3”) I’ve had it cut out on me a couple times at speed 4, but only once at 3. It does everything I need it to do, it’s quiet, and it’s convenient.
@@Leonarco333 interesting. That would make sense, I was using a 3 inch wheel. A 2 inch would take a lot less torque
I've been thinking of making a dyno for testing corded drills, measuring the input power (voltage and current) and the output power at the chuck. The problem with measuring output power by driving a motor is you need to know the efficiency of said motor at any given rpm. A better way would be to measure output rpm and torque, but it's not easy to measure torque.
If anything I would consider a noise category as well. Great test rig though, I look forward to more tests.
Only reason I suggest a noise category is because the new guy at the shop is deaf I guess. He uses the cheapest tools he can find, and between his astro die grinder and his astro belt sander it makes your ears want to cry. Definitely a category worth mentioning when you work with someone like that.
Please do one of the old fashioned corded or M18 die grinders. Another great video as always!
I've also got a 10+ yr old HF die grinder I'd send if you wanted to test an old one
I have 3 Milwaukee right angle die grinders and 2 of the straight they are by far my most used M12 tools OF all time I love the piss out of then they are amazing @Torque Test Channel
I'd love to see more of the higher-end air tools tested. To the theme of this video, perhaps the CP875? And more generally, the top-tier offerings from Chicago Pneumatic, Ingersoll Rand, AirCat, Astro, Pneumatic, et cetera...
I've found that the XC 3 and 4ah packs give a little more power than the XC 6ah. With rechargeable batteries, it's common for lower capacity cells to be more robust and have higher drain rates, thus delivering more power. I don't think it would make a big difference, but it is noticeable. I haven't sprung for the new M12 high output batteries yet.
I know most of you throw out the manual as soon as the tool comes out of the box, but if you follow the chart for disk sizes, you will be much happier with these 12V die grinders. They are very handy. If you always have plenty of air where you need it, when you need it, these won't make you happy. If dragging a hose out is involved, you will love them.
This could be a moot point; was the air source calibrated to the specified working pressure of the air tools? If not, that could account for some of the variability of the RPM on the air grinder. Just my thoughts and I love the channel! Thank you for another great video.
I have a straight m12 die grinder and I love it. I’m a mobile locksmith and I don’t want to lug a compressor around, have to plug it in and all that. It might not be that powerful but it’s very portable. I think I’m going to try one of the m12 5.0 batteries to see if the high output helps though.
Have you factored the spindle motor efficiency into the power ratings?
Would be interesting to see the new Ryobi right angle grinder, and whether 18v is really giving an advantage. It'll get dinged on size of course.
It would have been very interesting to measure the V and A going into the grinders and comparing the Wattage with what came out of the dyno gen.
TTC, using this constant power load could be improved upon. Try starting the tool with no load and slowing increasing the amps. You can plot this against rpm and get a power curve.
Another Thought to add to this ranking for die grinders specifically would be decibels, I know that's a big thing in my shop and a huge factory when purchasing a die grinder
Absolutely. The m12 isn’t as powerful, but it’s plenty powerful enough for what I need and it’s so much quieter than air. Combine that with not working around the air hose and it’s a big win for me.
Just the othe day I was hoping some day you all would start testing die grinders!!
I've got both die grinders and assuming your not grinding the rust off a dozer blade or using a burr bit to cut 1/2" plate, they're perfect (cleaning gasket surfaces, using a burr to cleanup pin bushing bosses etc)
I could not agree more. They do everything I need them to do, they do it well, and they do it much more quietly without working around an air hose.
i would like to see more compared .that 18v makita is bigger but still worth seeing the specs .
Most hobby die grinder use is for short intervals where electric is plenty. Those who need pneumatics know who we are (and that we can crank up the air pressure if we've enough compressor). Stalling a pneumatic doesn't smoke the motor. Horses for courses...
I have both but my favorite die grinder is the beastly corded Milwaukee 5196 (cordless is possible at that continuous output but would devour the best batteries in typical use cases). Those are so tough I buy them used (wear parts are inexpensive).
BTW I drilled then tapped a (steel) quality drill chuck for 5/8-11 that turns a small angle grinder into a very handy angle die grinder for use with flap wheels etc which are not normally used with guards. It's a great addition to my welding gear bucket.
I own that angle die grinder and mine runs a carbide burr just fine, but if I put a mini cutoff disc or mini wire wheel on it after a few seconds it just shuts off/quits. I swapped out the tool with a new one thinking it was defective but the new one works the same.
I have had terrible luck with Milwaukee's M12 straight die grinder, maybe I'm just too rough on them but I was only able to get through 30 ports on cast iron heads before the head started to separate and the collet seized. Thinking porting and polishing is going to require a corded die grinder
Surprised you got that far without overheating.
There were breaks in between for changing carbides, stones, and various sanding implements as well as measuring cross sectional area of the bow
That collet belongs on a 5/18"-13 female spindle to mount to cordless angle grinders which promptly become right angle die grinders. I drilled and tapped a steel Jacobs chuck for mine which is a very old trick but those are bulky. That turns any of my angle grinders into right angle die grinders at which my Makita and DeWalt are quite handy, and for heavy jobs it goes on corded angle grinders.
Obviously when it comes to the volume measurement it's going to sink like the Titanic,but the Kobalt kdg124 is an awesome performer it has the three speed settings and the governor maintains all of them easily on any kind of load I've ever put it on. Even circle cutting 3/4-in thick rubber belt that instantly stalled every other tool I have including corded, cordless and pneumatics, it just grinds right through comfortably. I'm very pleased with it! I'd love to see you test it even though it's definitely not going to compete in the size category.
I like the cheap hf right angle grinder, have had one for 6 years, always sounds bad. I vote to test all grinders!
Test the ryobi, especially with the 9AH because why not.
Glad to see these tools being compared in this fashion. One thing to consider is that cordless grinders dont need air compressors and hoses to run hence they should get points for that and the air tool price should account for the compressor and hose price as well if we want to compare more apples to apples. Overall, great video and looking forward to seeing more from you guys.
This is great! I was gonna get one of the m12 grinders, saw this, and now I'm just gonna wait till I find a used bigger compressor, rather than get a battery tool.
Hell yeah, boiz! It's so rad to see the channel grow.
Keep it up!
I really hope you test that chief! Since their air hammer was as good as the snap on, I'm hopeful the whole chief line is good and you're the one to prove it
Good video, I find your current RPM listing to be the most sensible.
Can you try removing the fan from the DC motor shaft and cooling it with an external fan mounted to the table?
I'd like to see Fein's AGSZ series of cordless die grinders tested.
They are full size tools using 18v drill batteries, but I'd still like to see how the larger units compare.
Battery die grinders need an easy to motor overload indicator at the least.
I would return those Milwaukee's if they cut out like that.
Thanks for exposing these M12 Die Grinders. They're the only Milwaukee tool I consistently get frustrated at.
Agreed. Don't know how they ever made it past that testing phase at Milwaukee.
I've put a couple hours runtime on the little HF. Mine is holding so far. For daily or production use i agree, get something nicer. For me grinding a weld a few times a year, seems ok.
The New M12 High Output Xc 5.0 Batteries from what I noticed give more power to these die grinders over the XC 6.0 would be cool to see what i feel by using them on the chart down the road comparing the 6.0 to the HO 5.0 @Torque Test Channel
I've really gotten a lot of use out of that right angle. Its been a peach. Not sure how it will do in the rankings but I know I will still love it regardless.
I use mine all the time. The convenience is amazing and it’s so much quieter than air.
Great video look forward to seeing more of these @Torque Test Channel
I have the right angle Milwaukee and I knew from the first time I used it knew it was weaker than claimed. Still like it as it gets into places I need while not needing an air hose. Also is great working in places you don't have air hoses.
could this set up work to test rotary tools (Like Dremel) ? Maybe even include power loss using a flexible shaft. Amazon has a ton, Miliwaukee makes one , Craftsman i believe has or had on. Just a thought,,,,
Dewalt 20v drywall cutter and ryobi one plus drywall cutter are essentially die grinders, 20,000 rpm and have inserts for either 1/8" or 1/4" carbide burrs or anything you would use a die grinder for....I have been running my ryobi one plus off of a dewalt battery for years using a lamp extension cord .... I recently found a 10$ speed control to back off the speed because of out of balance burrs that get pretty wild at that high of rpm.....I just cut the battery portion of the tool off because I don't like manipulating that much mass and weight around...if I could figure out how to post a picture of my setup on here I would..... it would be interesting to see how the ryobi 18v would compare to the air tools, but it seems pretty strong and now with the speed control is easier to control than an air power grinder and the lamp cord is a lot more pleasant to work with than the air hose ...however it all depends on what you are doing with it 😉
I'd be interested in seeing an air fitting comparison on an impact or other air tool. Our shop uses milton a-style fitting but I'd be interested in seeing how much power we're losing vs v-style.
How about hooking up some routers and see if the claimed horsepower matches up with your findings? I mean they’re essentially oversized die grinders, right?
Sounds like an awesome idea.. I'd like to see drills as well
I have the Ryobi 18v right angle die grinder, and I love it. The battery is definitely a chonker compared to the M12, but it hasn’t been that much of an issue for me.
I have the Milwaukee right angle die grinder. It's awesome. I don't have air and it works very well. Only issue I have is the internal safety can be too much sometimes when I'm trying to cut sheetmetal. If the disc gets hung up at all, it shuts itself off. I have considered getting the straight one but I read and watched reviews for it last year and it didn't seem worth it. I use the high capacity xc 4.0 and 6.0 batteries and with mine and they can go for a couple hours. I have 4 of them that I can have them on rotation. I wouldn't be able to restore my car without these since I don't have a big enough compressor.
Honestly, I like how the air die grinders take up less space, even when having to deal with an air hose (swivel fittings can help greatly if trying to get into tight spaces). I had the harbor freight right angle die grinder for years, pretty sure it was the really cheap one. After replacing it with a Mac right angle grinder, I gave the old HF one to another guy at the shop and its been alive for at least 10 years... Not saying that it was strong, but for $15 at the time, it still works.
I recently got both the straight and angled milwaukee die grinders and am pretty disappointed in their power. They go in to protection mode constantly, but seem like they may be getting a little better as I've used them for a while.
Yep very common. I had to return both if mine. They couldn't even handle removing gasket material from a water pump face.
The problem I don’t like with electric die grinders is control. Air tools can be controlled better especially when porting cylinder heads. Also air tool grinders are easier to put in smaller places because they are smaller.
Your measures electrical power, which can be significantly lower than mechanical power. I would suggest a hinge in line with the shaft and a short arm resting on digital kitchen scales, which would give you a torque readout. Mechanical power can then be calculated by multiplying with RPM. Another issue is the dyno motor's ability to absorb significant power at lower RPM during cordless drill testing, which will cause a very high current and possibly overheating. "Proper" dynos tend to use water brakes for absorbing the load. One can be jury rigged by using a centrifugal water pump drawing from and feeding into a bucket, with a variable restriction (ball valve) on the inlet side to let you vary the load.
Thanks. Am thinking of getting one of these Red, right angle die grinders. Air is compact etc, but has a number of drawbacks of noise, cost of compression etc. Also, air is very pressure sensitive; very fast on load load, but this quickly drops with pressure. I note you found the battery ones to bog, too. There's some small advantages in air, but I think much of the future (and present) is battery.
Heavy truck mechanic here. I love the Milwaukee impacts and drills and stuff, but still prefer air power for die grinders. A more predictable torque curve, and still puts power out even if RPMs drop. The Milwaukee ones cut out entirely if they see too much RPM drop. Trying to grind through baked on hardened paper gaskets is no match for air power. Though I'm in a shop with 170 psi air and 500 gallon tank.
With my m12 right angle, ive enjoyed using it in a lower setting instead of the number 4 setting. I noticed it doesn’t cut off as much and still performs good enough for me to warrant dragging out an airline.
I have the right angle Milwaukee. It’s ok, nothing special. I usually keep a cutoff wheel, or small wire wheel on it. That’s about all it’s good for is a quick use where rolling out an air hose is unnecessary. Maybe y’all could try some of the JET brand of die grinders I’ve been looking at getting their 1 HP models but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. They look very similar to the snap on ones.
I had good experience with the right angle die grinder but the straight one seems to have much less power for some reason 🤔
I'd like to see some higher end air tools tested like "DYNABRADE".
in Aerospace we use a tons of Dynabrade air tools and they are crazy high end.
This would work with drywall saws (Rotozip etc) as well.
Same with palm routers, and plunge routers if they have 1/4” shanks.
Decibels would be another interesting thing to compare between various types of air tools and battery versions alike!
I have found in the past that it is common with the cheap air tools to have gear oil and grease in them which dramatically slows them down. If you tear them apart and clean them and add pneumatic oil, they typically work a lot better. It’s often worth a shot to save some cash.
On my Milwaukee right angle die grinder I stepped down to 2” rolocs from the 3”, a lot less stalling and great performance
Cant wait to see more stuff hit the new dyno, great job!
Seriously stepping it up on this channel.👍
I purchased the Milwaukee set this summer, very disappointed with the cutting out and the very short run time with the 2.0 batteries. I'll be purchasing some air die grinders soon.
Do the m12's make more power at a lower rpm if you put them on setting 1?
Love my M12 right angle die grinder. It stalls easily as a cutt off. But it works without dragging a hose
The new HO battery is the battery for this