The right choice was Corlys daughter. Politically it made more sense. He would have married into a more powerful family and solidified unity throughout the realm. This is a mistake he tried to rectify by Marrying Rhaenyra into their family.
because the show is putting the targaryeans on the forefront...subconsciously people root for the targaryeans and see the hightowers as social climbers. sadly people don't think objectively, but that's also part of how the fandom behaves
@@dontatme__ - The right choice would have been to marry low-born whore or no one at all. Any high-born marriage was a threat to Rhaenyra. A son of Viserys and a former whore might have been a threat as well, if he was competent, but at least he would not have the family of a lord paramount bound by blood to back him.
Otto Hightower, from House of the Dragon, may exhibit characteristics common to ambitious medieval lords, but his actions exceed typical medieval conduct and venture into morally reprehensible territory. Unlike many historical lords who sought power through marriages, alliances, and occasional conflicts, Otto’s methods are marked by extreme manipulation and betrayal. He actively plots to subvert the established line of succession by placing his grandson, Aegon II, on the Iron Throne, directly opposing King Viserys I’s declared heir, Rhaenyra (Martin, 2018). This deliberate undermining of the king’s will and destabilization of the realm through instigation of the Dance of the Dragons marks him as particularly unscrupulous (Condal & Sapochnik, 2022). Furthermore, Otto’s willingness to sacrifice familial bonds and moral integrity for power highlights his exceptional ruthlessness. Historical medieval lords often balanced their ambitions with loyalty and duty to their kin and liege. Otto’s betrayal of his own family members and manipulation of key figures to incite civil war suggest a level of moral bankruptcy that goes beyond typical medieval power struggles (Abraham, 2022). This relentless pursuit of power at any cost, even at the risk of plunging the realm into chaos, positions Otto not as a standard medieval lord, but as a figure driven by an excessive and destructive lust for dominance. References Abraham, D. (2022). House of the Dragon: Behind the Scenes. HBO. Condal, R., & Sapochnik, M. (2022). House of the Dragon [TV series]. HBO. Martin, G. R. R. (2018). Fire & Blood: 300 Years Before A Game of Thrones (A Targaryen History). Bantam Books.
@@bri-manhunter2654 Well, it's no secret that showrunners sympathize more with Blacks. Although for me he and the Greens are almost heroes who saved the dynasty from a bastard on the throne.
@@goro114bastard?! How is Jace a bastard when A - Laenor and Velaryons accepted him as part of their family with Corlys saying “They remember names, not blood” and B - He still claims legitimacy through his marriage with Baela who is the daughter of Laena and Daemon and C - Jace would have made a good king through diplomacy (Dealings with Freys, Starks, Arryns)
@@ElectricAlect He is a bastard, and Laenor's opinion is irrelevant. Whatever he accepted, it will not change the circumstances of Jace's birth, which disqualify him from the throne.
@@goro114 it is relevant when the head of the dynasty accepts as his own, and Laenor the father accepts as his own as well. It does not disqualify at all.
Daemon is a sociopathic narcicist who murderered his young wife. Otto's determination to keep him away from the throne demonstrates his commitment to the realm.
Otto's opposition to Daemon is entirely hypocritical given the fact that he wants to put a degenerate lazy pdf file on the throne. He is not committed to the realm at all. He is a moralistic, deceitful, self serving hypocrite.
There's nothing that makes Otto exceptionally evil for a man of his setting. He's just the archetypical ambitious lord. Most lords would've taken the opportunity to marry their daughter to the unmarried king without a son as well. On the contrary, he's such a pragmatic and talented statesman that even Jaehaerys I recognized him. He pretty much always gives the most objective advice for a medieval context. Haters will say that him picking Rhaenyra over Daemon and then Aegon is a contradiction but it's not. Male preference primogeniture says children of Monarchs's come before siblings and that principle does give Rhaenyra a leg up over Daemon. With Aegon however, the dilemma becomes brother or sister. Also, Aegon marrying Rhaenyra is much less weird than Daemon marrying Rhaenyra. The age gap is much worse for Daemon and Rhaenyra. It was the best advice. Considering that Aegon and Rhaenys are the male and female candidates to the throne with the strongest claims or that the customs and precedents heavily support the Greens at all, Rhaenyra's claim with bastards to follow her is so weak that she would have to deal with Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron to save her dynasty from them or their descendants. Them or their descendants will inevitably press their claims against the Strong boys at some point since they could always claim to be the true kings. Otto didn't orchestrate this war as much as people think he did. In understanding a medieval setting one can see that most of what Otto says is common sense. This is why he would support a son even if he wasn't his grandson. Succession rules applied consistently means less dynastic conflict because people aren't claiming the throne by wildly different metrics (heir by customs and precedents vs named heir). As for his hatred of Daemon, it's clearly justified given how so many of his actions already would be grounds for deposition or would otherwise be seen as extremely cruel even by medieval standards. He's the epitomy of "doing whatever the hell you want just because you're a Targaryen." He's summarily executing people all the time. He's a literal murderer and does it in almost every episode.
And, despite what people think about medieval societies, killing your wife and/or treating her the way Daemon did was always looked down upon. Everyone even knows Daemon killed her or at the very least they suspect him of doing it. Viserys was just too spineless to do anything about it
First of all even if rhaenyra doesn't wants to kill her siblings she would have to eventually because there would always be a risk of rebellion and backstabbing etc even if she wouldn't have had bastards , she would never let her half brothers live or anyone from her side would have get them killed if she would become the undisputed queen. Suppose if after war greens lost , blacks won and in this alternative version all rhae rhae's kids are alive. How can people be so naive as to think that Daemon Targaryen would let her bastards take place before his own trueborn sons? That man is crazy about blood purity and all. He would have find a way to get rid of strong boys one way or another and before or after would get either full control over rhaenyra aka queen or put her in a cell or something , I mean are we forgetting that he took her to brothel to defame her and wanted to marry her simply to get closer to power ? Besides what otto did is same what corlys did just played better and won. Yeah I hate all this as a woman and feminist but in those days things were unfortunately like this and that's why people don't want to understand TG characters ( except few actually problematic ones like Larys, aegon ) , people think they would seem old fashioned to even understand these characters so they simply settle for seem silly and judge these characters by 21st century. Those who can't understand HOTD's medieval world should really watch Magnificent Century, that series is the reason why I could understand TG and intentions of Alicent specially.
The ironic part is that you can totally remove the Greens descendants and still have a real civil war between the Strong boys and their little brothers (Aegon and Viserys) because ain't no way Daemon the supremacist will be happy seeing Jace Strong sitting at the iron throne while his silver haired boys are just the "loyal brothers", lol Daemon's whole personality is about not respecting those with more than 25% non-valyrian dna 😂, and I don't want anyone to tell me he won't because Jace will marry Baela, Daemon not once thought of Baela's rights on Driftmark (neither the feminist Corlys and Rhae) all for the sake of getting closer to the throne through Rhaenyra, I don't think he'll chose Baela's offspring over his own sons, on a final note: the Blacks are extremely patriarchal, because they're ready to take away Baela's rights and give it to any boy whether a Velaryon or not, a trueborn or not (I'm pointing out to Alyn) Corlys will give Driftmark to any boy but not Baela yet expect the Greens to throw away their beliefs and safety for Rhaenyra and her Strong boys because it's convenient for him and his ambition, the Blacks are misogynist in denial, the worst type
Otto has definitely ambitions for the throne, but he always puts the good of the kingdom first. He genuinely admired Viserys as his friend and king, and wanted to keep the peace. Ironically, that led to the civil war they have now.
@@FahimAhmed-xj9lq This Tywin glazing leaves you blind to the fact that Tywin's actions will likely lead to the end of the Lannisters, while the Hightowers survived to post ASOIAF.
People calling Otto the "new littlefinger" and "a snake" don't understand his character at all. By all accounts, he was a solid Hand of the King, did it for years, and was Politically savvy
I viewed him as the new Littlefinger when watching the first couple of episodes (of the first season), but he grew on me over time because he was more so a logical person with layers to his character and I realized how wrong I was to project him as another Littlefinger. He truly loved and wanted to protect his daughter by marrying her to Viserys, while also serving his own needs. It does create some questions about which is more important to him but I don't doubt his love for her. Also, he understood his place and worked to keep himself in that position of power that suited him.
Larys is the closest parallel in this show to Littlefinger. People who compare Otto to Littlefinger are smoking crack lol. Otto is more similar to Tywin, behind Hand of the King and ruthlessly politically savy.
The only problem with Otto is that he underestimated the stupidity of his grandson Aegon and didn't prepare properly prepare him for the throne. Even though Aegon isn't a monster as Maegor was, he's a terrible king, driven by lust, anger and hedonism. Otto recognized this a long time ago - but either he nor Alicent took Aegon under their guidance or tried to change his behaviour.
@@deejaydj6013 Yes, that also plays a huge part in his development. He might not always have been the best husband or even the best father, but he clearly loved Jahaerys very much. :(
Aegon was a mess well before he had children. He was failed by his father, mother and Otto. In their defence they were ruling a kingdom and probably had little time but they should have made time.
I must agree with this one, if father and mother failed educate their son than a grandfather duty to step in especially for a man with so much power like Otto 😅
Even if he had done nothing, the war would have started sooner or later, because the "heiress" wants to put a bastard on the throne after herself, despite the fact that she has two legitimate younger sons, how many years would have passed until the children of Strog and Daemon start dancing and plunge the country into complete A nightmare? And that's not to mention that the Greens will always be in danger with a king consort like Daemon. God, just let Aegon be king and the country will forget about the blacks as a terrible dream
He caused the dance by over stepping his ambition. He was doing well until wanting Aegon to be crowned. He already secured dragon riders exist in his family line and that his family is royalty.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba Beyond that he expressly violated the will of his king who he was sworn to serve to the best of his ability; Viserys had never expressed any desire for his daughter to be anything other then his heir. Beyond that, Aegon the 2nd was ~quite frankly~ shit; he had none of the proper education or experience to perform the duty of leading the realm and as such his reign was frankly lackluster.
Let’s all be honest, the true “villain” behind the Dance was Viserys poorly management of his personal life and inheritance. He never acknowledged the mess he did by naming a heir in a rushed manner just for then marrying again and finally have a male heir. His silence over the obvious elephant in the room was one of the main reasons the Targaryen dynasty almost went downhill in a matter of a few years after his death
Right on! Viserys doesnt get even nearly enough slack for his catastrophic Decisions. That Guy ensured that a civil War will break out after his gone. Still, a considerade Part of the Fandom even considers him to be a great King, WTF?
In episode 3 (season 2), Rhaenys said "Otto Hightower would never approve this". She was referring to the attempted assassination of Rhaenyra by Ser Arryk, which resulted in his and his twin brothers' deaths. Even Rhaenys knew that Otto was a reasonable and level-headed man.
How people blame Otto for what Viserys did or what didn't I never understand. Viserys always thought he is living in a wonderland while Otto knew the reality of Westeros.
You make some very interesting points. Still Otto's plans often seem pretty flawed. If Aemond hadn't happened to claim Vhagar (something Otto had nothing at all to do with) the Greens position is far weaker. Otto later launched a Coup d'etat in Aegon's name without first securing Aegon's support. There was a non-zero chance that he could have been left without the king he was fighting for. Even once he had Aegon on the throne it was a king who'd never been prepared to rule and who actively disliked Otto. I think the popular villification of Otto is exaggerated but to say he did nothing wrong is going a bit far.
Still not sure about that. Rhaenyra sent her sons off after saying she does not want to rule over a kingdom of ash and bones. So she definitely planned to try to get the throne
This is some fair criticism. Otto really should have put more effort into preparing Aegon for his role and paving the way for a smooth succession, he could have secured him strong alliances beside the Hightowers and Lannisters and found decent marriage pacts for his siblings. And he should have encouraged them to claim powerful dragons like Vermithor or Silverwing. It's amazing how poorly they were prepared for something so predictable and long awaited as the kings death. I suppose his efforts were hindered somewhat by his dismissal and his absence in Aegons youth. He also couldn't risk making his intentions too obvious to Viserys. If Aemond hadn't claimed Vhagar I don't think Otto would have proceeded as he did.
I really like the duality of Otto's character. On one hand, he's committed to the good of the realm, whilst on the other, he is a self serving politician who wishes to advance the status of his own house. Many of his actions are understandable within the context of the world, even if they are not justifiable by our standards. Brilliant character.
He may have facilitated the shit they find themselves in, but I pity Otto in S2. He is forced to watch his idiot family ruin all of his an Viserys' accomplishments.
I love that Otto has spent his entire life ruining Daemon's aspirations for the throne. I have a thing for underdogs and to see a mere knight and second son unabashedly defy this prideful, malevolent prince who thinks himself so superior is just entertaining as hell.
In the end otto line dies out but not the hightowers they are really smart when you think about it, all through the dance nothing happens to the old town they suffered some losses to their army and wealth but they pretty much came out unscathed out of the dance.they even get a Targaryen princess as a bride, daemon daughter 😂 no less.
You're forgetting all the times that Viserys tried to give Daemon the benefit of the doubt, and Otto told him with zero proof that Daemon was plotting against Viserys. And whenever Daemon would try for Viserys' attention, Otto would intercept those efforts, and tell Daemon that Viserys doesn't trust or love him, which Otto KNOWS isn't true, since Viserys tells him that he wants to reconcile with Daemon. When Otto goes to Dragonstone, he lies to Daemon's face that Viserys has no interest in hearing out Daemon, despite Viserys suggesting he to go to Dragonstone to settle the feud himself. Otto might not be as slimy or traitorous as Littlefinger, but he's just as conniving and dishonest. Truthfully, Otto is Littlefinger if you remove all of Littlefinger's weaknesses and replace them with more intelligence. Otto did what Littlefinger couldn't. He was able to obtain the second highest position in the realm, and secure power for his bloodline in as few political maneuvers as possible. Peter Baelish never even came remotely as close as Otto Hightower to sitting on the throne. Otto Hightower is closer to Tywin Lannister in terms of influence and power, as both effectively ruled the seven kingdoms from the position of Hand of the King, by controlling young kings with no head for politics. But to say that Otto Hightower was faultless is a lie and a delusion, or a purposeful misrepresentation of the truth. He had plenty of insight into Daemon, and was worried mainly that Daemon wanted to replace Otto, and there was precedent for it. Kings had often names their brothers to be Hand of the King, and Daemon even confronts Viserys for the very fact that Daemon was never made his Hand, so we know Otto was right to be worried about his job. But the way he went about securing his position, trying to sow discourse between Daemon and Viserys, and knowingly trying to usurp Rhaenyra's claim to the throne (he knew Viserys wanted Rhaenyra to be Queen, but went against it anyway) was all kinds of underhanded. As soon as Aegon is crowned king, Otto spends the rest of the Dance waging war against the rightful heir, that's treason in the show, and its dishonest because we all know that he knows Rhaenyra is supposed to be queen. Otto knowingly pits brother against sister, and causes a civil war. He obviously doesn't expect it to cause the extinction of House Targaryen, but he's also still starting a civil war. Whether you hate or like Otto Hightower, you can't act like this is for the good of the realm. This is pure selfishness, he's willing to spill blood and let all seven kingdoms suffer the casualties if it means he wins.
People saying Otto proves to be correct later on are also being disingenuous since he is a key player for the events that happens. If he were a bystander observing from the outside it would makes sense but since he’s actively throwing rocks and pointing fingers it comes off as hypocritical.
If only this video can go viral to all the supporters of the blacks, It's like they are applying the standards of the the modern world instead of the times envisioned by GRRM esp the role of women and security for family imo, Thanks for great content , Go Greens
Black supporters are not applying "standards of the modern world", only the fantasies of the young fools who call themselves "progressive" and believe they are the first generation to have a brain.
The writers and directors either purposely showed the story from Rheanyra’s limited pov, or the audience are easily lead astray. Because put a dope background music behind some useless character and suddenly, they are baddass? I hope the writers write and direct the greens like they are the heroes in season 2, I want to see how people react to that so bad. Then in future seasons, play neutral.
This men singlehandedly put targaryens to their knees by killing their dragons that terrorised his house in the past !!!! This guy is a perfect hero or villain whatever you want call in his own right !!!
you didn't address the number one thing he did wrong - his coup. he was planning on putting Aegon on the throne despite Viserys making it clear that he picked Rhaenyra as heir. and he planned on doing this even before the whole "prince that is promised" death bed misunderstanding. this has led to civil war and the death of thousands, and debunks your claim that he did nothing wrong
yes he went against the kings will, but it always seemed more as a move to prevent conflict, thinking not everyone would except a woman, i genuinely believe he thought what he was doing is right, especially since her children were clearly bastards but the king ordered everyone to ignore it or accept it as not true, otto is trying to maintain stability
Making Rhynera heir was Otto’s idea however that was mainly to prevent a daemon take over and sorry in a medieval society the kings first born son is the rightful heir and Rhynera never made herself into a good heir.
I am so glad there are still people out there who are able to think, and analyze smart decisions and motives of people and not confuse it with treachery and malice. In GOT it was kinda obvious that the Lannisters are the bad guys since they have done several evil things with or without much reason, like Joffrey and Cersei did. But here both sides are relateable and understandable, and it's up to the audience whose side are they on based on their views. It's partly because of Otto why I am team green since their characters feel much more real, relateable, disciplined and overall a lot of them are much more better people than the blacks. In summary, that was a great video explaining how many of Otto's moves were based and actually bold and smart. So great job my man!
Almost all of these refutations are red herrings. The main issue people have is that his ambition to have his grandson on the throne, no matter how unfit he is, and despite the fact he's not the named air causes the war. Otto planned to have Aemon crowned even before he was aware of Alicent's misunderstanding of the king's final words. You'd have to argue that Otto was right in directly disobeying his king's orders for his goals and that there would be a rebellion if the Green faction didn't pop up around Aemon, without the support of the hand and the high council. In the scenario that Otto forewent his ambition and supported the Rhaenyra's planned succession, I don't think it's likely there would have been a groundswelling of lords going against their word and rejecting her. If you can't disagree with that, you have to rely on your rationale that Otto's ambition is justified and justifies the war.
Exactly. Otto could have decided to support Rhaenyra from the get go and with him on her side, the rebellion would have been practically impossible. He could have suggested actual smart ways to deal with the issue of her bastard children. He could have helped Rhaenyra and secure his bloodline in the throne if he got Haelena married to Jaecerys, for instance. Might have even avoided Rhaenyra's second marriage. But alas, I don't think he would have stomached serving Rhaenyra's promiscuity and entitlement. He just seems like that.
People criticise Otto for having ambitions for his family. Well what about Rhaenyra? 3 of her sons are bastards yet she wants Jacerys to inherit the Throne, and Lucerys to inherit Driftmark. She has her ambitions as well and, unlike Otto, hers are based on lies. Viserys MARRIED Alicent it's above board the Hightowers are legally in-laws of the royal family. His plan worked. Rhaenyra just stumbles from one disaster to another and blames everyone but herself.
The first season I absolutely hated Otto . After watching the first 2 episodes of season 2 , I’m hating him less and less . He hasn’t done anything that’s truly evil unlike Daemon and Rhaenyra.
What did Rhaenyra do that was "truly evil"? Also, Otto had the body of a child paraded in the streets against the parents' wishes in season 2 episode 2.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 the show is whitewashing her from all the things she did. Vaemond death for example making Only Daemon involved when in reality she had him killed by Daemon and fed his body to Syrax. And I believe they added this prophecy thing to justify her terrible and evil actions in the future of the dance to make it seem like she did all of this for the greater good.
@@fai_sal7554 That's not "truly evil" though. That's just cruel. "Truly evil" would be like k*lling babies and stuff. But I do agree that the show is downplaying Rhaenyra and Alicent's worst qualities in order to make them more likeable.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 killing Laenor her husband for no good reason other than to marry Daemon and to make her enemies fear her also putting a bounty on Maelor’s head a child which got him killed in the end is evil enough for u?? Tell me this isn’t the actions of a villain
@@fai_sal7554 You're getting the show and books confused. The OP and I are talking about the show. Everyone in the book is evil, more or less. Otto, Daemon, Aemond, Aegon, Rhaenyra, and Alicent included. And Rhaenyra only posted rewards for Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor's capture in the books, not their de@ths. I was asking about what "truly evil" acts has Rhaenyra committed in the show.
As you said, I think that problem with Otto might lie in the show's composition. In my opinion the show makes blacks' decisions more understandable and explored than the greens'. Everyone is cheering for Daemon and Rhaenyra while Alicent and the rest tends to be portrayed as the bad ones
I hope they explain why the greens wanted to make Aegon king because there are several good reasons. I don't know why they would leave them out of the 1st season since it would add more context then them just being power hungry. But because it would keep the realm at peace and fulfill Viserys dream he told Aemma in episode 1
From Day 1, Otto did an everything to avoid the Dance of Dragons within the context of his situation. Literally, he was the one who suggested the Aegon and Rhaneyra betrothal which would have a) satisfied the realm, b) given Rhanyera multiple years and a potential regency before having to become Queen consort, c) satisfied the Hightower factions, and d) appeased the Velaryons because Aegon’s children could have been betrothed to an Daemon/Laena’s kids. Otto was the only reasonable person but no one listened to him.
But he is a far better version of him and succeded in time when odds arent in his favour and a one wrong move could end his entire house burnt to dust unlike tywin who always had everything in his favor but still failed in his goal !!!
Otto: find out whose happy and tell me what theyre happy about Larys: find out whose unhappy and tell me what they are unhappy about Littlefinger: find out who wants a secret kept then offer them a place to keep it...
So as hand of the king, he defied the kings orders to put the rightful heir on the throne, a peaceloving queen instead made a coup to put his drunken psycho 10 IQ grandson on it thus starting a civil war. And all this is explained away with he has ambition and was stunning and brave when he went to dragonstone :D
Yep, pretty much my thoughts, basically anyone playing the game of thrones is a villain in this show, because they directly or indirectly cause open wars, rebellions or civil wars if only they just followed the Viserys' wishes everything would be peaceful, Aegon didn't want the throne and Aemond was hateful Otto should have known neither of them would make good kings,
Season 2 killed this with Otto expressing awareness that nobody (importantly Viserys) wanted Aegon to be king, and that he put Aegon there anyway despite Aegon being entirely unprepared to rule. I blame the show writers for the oversight of it though. Having Otto believe that he is doing what is best for the realm, that conveniently happened to have some self interest sprinkled in, fit the character better. They just had to destroy it with one poorly thought out scene. At least Otto's actor sold it beautifully to dampen the pain the scene inflicted on the deeper plot elements.
Team green is here! ❤ Love the video. Otto could see the realities of Westeros and always acted accordingly. Didn't spill the first blood and always tried to compromise. He is far better than Daemon, just because he didn't choke Rhaenyra or didn't beat a soldier out of small d**k anger people doesn't like him.😂
Otto has the wish and drive to improve his families standing. He doesnt do so by some dagger and poison method but by carefully political movements and diplomacy. Honestly the only argument you could bring against his political actions in general is saying that in a feudale society no one should dare and try to improve their own standing. Also if you look at daemon only through his actions...than daemon is a bloody psychopath
It’s important to remember that Vizzy is like the 5th targ king. The second king was killed by Maegor. Maegor married a Hightower and horribly abused her and the realm. If you see Desmond as Maegor 2 then a lot of Otto’s actions begin to make sense.
The second Targaryen king was Aenys. He died of poor health. Maegor wasn't even in Westeros when that happened. Maegor killed his nephew Aegon, who was the heir to the throne, but was not king. And just like Daemon, Maegor had a love-hate relationship with his brother and thought his brother a weak King, but neither of them ever tried to hurt their brothers. If Maegor and Daemon had actually wanted to hurt their brothers to seize the throne, neither of them would have gone into exile silently when their brothers banished them from court and from Westeros. They would've just killed them instead, because both Maegor and Daemon had formidable dragons. Yet they never did that, did they?
A dragon ls worth an eye. He was an ambitious schemer who worked for power, not ruthless but a Machiavellian trouble maker. Viserys imho is the villain of the series.
Facts, Daemon was right all along. He gave reality check to Viserys but he was stupid enough to not take it seriously and more as slander. Even if you see the council meetings it was mostly Otto who took decisions, Viserys was just a damn puppet who will listen to almost every council of Otto except when it was about Rhaenerya. Lyonel Strong was the best hand of the king viserys had.
Fans often like to forget that the fear factor of Maegor the cruel was still in everyone, even extending to King Viserys. It shocks me that they think Viserys would even consider Daemon to have a powerful position, or even the throne.
When Otto married Alicent to Viserys, she was a young and beautiful girl from arguably the most important house in the Reach, and the daughter of the Hand of the King. Her options as a noblewoman were NOT limited; she was at no risk of becoming destitute. In fact, Otto should have realized that her future children would be more at risk if they were potential claimants to the Iron Throne instead of just potential claimants to a lord husband's castle. He did everything for ambition, and made Alicent unhappy and her children unsafe.
He was planning to put Aegon on the throne no matter what Viserys wanted and plotted for years against the blacks. He got what was coming for him, and his biggest success is Aemond being a mirror image of Damon and claiming Veghar which he had nothing to do with him.
He was the one that encouraged Viserys to name his own daughter over Daemon as succsessor. I don't see why he couldn't make Viserys see all the conflicts ahead with her named as heir. I thought of Otto more like Tywin.
i agree with everything, but why otto try to put aegon on the throne? i believe that's the only thing i don't understand about his character, he surely knew that would set everything on fire and blood
I can’t understand how there’s so much hate against Otto from the same fans than adore Daemon. Daemon is the most villainous person in the whole show but because he’s so cool everyone just forgets his many flaws.
Ppl love daemon because he’s bad but he’s honest and open about it. He embraces his villainy and scheming, while Otto hides his ambition behind courtesy and protocol. Tldr; a lot of people value authenticity over niceness
@@andrewwarren8474 Uhmm in a sense yes? When Rhea’s death was questioned in Laenor and Rhaenyra’s wedding, Daemon did not show a shred of remorse and was even mocking her death and even one-upped the accusations againsy him, basically saying “It doesn’t matter if you accuse me, I can accuse you of false hoods as well” Also during the 2nd season, when rumors of Jaeherys’ death reached dragonstone, who was at the council table smiling from ear to ear? Daemon. Heck, even Rhaenys and Rhaenyra basically saw that smile as an admission of what he did, but again, he has no guilt for it at the moment. This is why people love him. He’s authentic with his savagery and his ambitions. He may not outright say the truth, but the way he expresses himself is apparent that he’s capable of terrible things and he himself knows it and shows it. Contrast it to Otto who snakes his way through every situation and always hides behind the guise of justice and the order of things. Unlike Daemon who pursues what he wants regardless of the consequences, Otto stretches the possible breadth of acceptable circumstances in order to further his goal. But many people around him sees him for who he truly is: a scheming man looking to further the power of his house
In terms of medeival sense… he is a good father. Perhaps even in modern times he’s still a good father. His terms are my family will survive no matter what and I will fight for them no matter what. Our bias paints him negatively, but he’s exactly the kind of a man you want on YOUR side.
Naah all Otto wants his family on top. His grandsons are the biggest genocidal psychopaths and while he ridicules them, he doesn't want them to not be rulers.
Otto is my favorite character. He's a mature father figure. Selfless, kind, smart, strong... he's surrounded by idiots and has to "wrangle cats" ... any person is bound to make mistakes, which he did... but his choices were limited.
Saying Otto is not evil, fine. But saying he did nothing wrong is a bit of a push. He kept the King “drugged” so he could run things. As hand, he well knew that Viserys’ wish was to have Rhaenyra as heir to the throne. He didn’t just put his daughter in front and let things evolve “organically”. He was very much actively trying all he could to undermine not only Rhaenyra’s claim but also that of her descendants. He knowingly pushed many decisions that would have broken the King’s word (ex: The new Lord of Driftmark. Thanks to the King’s epic return that ruined his plans). At every point, he tried to draw a wedge between the King and his Targaryen family. He used his position to push his own interests above (not concomitantly, or even right after) those of the King. That alone makes him bad. The contrast was clear when Lord Strong was the hand.
Exactly!!! He actively tried to start a civil war, where both sides had dragons. He knew of the devastation that would cause. He is not evil for being ambitious, he evil for placing his ambition for the throne over the lives of the millions of people that live in Westeros. If the Green faction didn't exist, would Rhaenyra's succession been challenged? Probably. But the other side would not have had dragons. People consider Otto evil because he started a needless civil war and ruined the decades of peace that Jaehaerys and Viserys worked for.
People don't hate Otto for his ambition; they hate him because he started a needless civil war with dragons on both sides. He knew his actions would end decades of peace that Jaehaerys and Viserys struggled to maintain. He also knew that war with dragons could and would result in hundred of thousands, if not millions of casualties. He knew all that, and he did it anyway, just for power. That's why people hate him.
The Dance of Dragons is just a whirlwinds of misunderstandings. Everyone always had some vital piece of information missing that would’ve changed their positions drastically. It’s quite tragic since if the main characters just talked more the Dance would not have happened, or would’ve been more measured.
Otto is not an evil person by any means, his actions do not depend on his moral compass, but he does politick and scheme with certain lords of westeros to support aegon's claim over rhaenyras, as such he weakens and fractures the realm further(note that im not saying he is entirely to blame for the war) but he does work to fracture the realm (not out of callousness nor sadism, but out of ambition & duty for his house which nonetheless are unjust acts) Hes not a bad person and he tries to minimize collateral damage but he is a vital tool in starting the war and making the war possible in the first place, at least in the show (books are a tiny bit different so far). Yet regarding rhaenyra, people who claim that rhaenyra should be passed over due to matters of tradition & custom should look to our world or westeros's history because progress is always occuring and certain traditions are always being forsaken for the sake of progress and better governing.
I disagree he COULD have been on renyas side since day one and choose to not only brack his kings Bond with his brother, but pin his future queen and own daughter in a power struggle for the rest of their lives. Ambitious and self-sacrificing are opposites and otto has never been self-sacrificing
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As one of the main representatives of house High Tower, part of Otto was probably aware and willing to see the Targaryens destroy themselves, even if some of them were his grandchildren. More than the throne, what every great house in Westeros really wanted was to see the end of the Targaryen rule, who showed up from nowhere with their dragons, forced all their Kings to bend the knee and burned thoso who didn't, and installed a line of incestuous Kings and Queens, defiling all westerosy tradition and even messing with their hierarchy of succession, something that was very important for tradicional westeros society since they have been arraging the marriages of their children and their inheritance through that for ages. House High Tower and Old Town have existed for over 10.000 years. Manipulating things so the Targaryens would use their dragons to kill each other, something only dragons can do, even at the cost of the throne, would probably be worth it in the long run. Manipulation or not, by the time of Roberst's revolt, the Targaryens have become a shadow of the power they had thanks to this conflict.
The expression Otto had on his face before going to inform Viserys of Rhaenyra's shenanigans kind of stood out to me, almost seemed like he knew it would benefit him, but was still reluctant to do it because he does care for Viserys and Rhaenyra too to an extent
@@Darius-_ I personally disagree whether it does help you in a way to go about obstacles, having calculating tendencies is a very disingenuous attribute to possess and is not a positive one.
He does, god he could play chess with Magnus Carlsen and he definitely loves his daughter and wants to ensure the survival of his line. He also has protected the realm best aa he could. Idk. I like Otto!
Otto is certainly an interesting and nuanced character but to say that he did nothing wrong also lacks of nuances as he did a lot of things to push his personal interests against what the king wanted and the best for the realm, which were undeniably choices that he made. Otto pushing his own house is not a rightful behaviour as well because obviously, an action fitting the narratives of that period of time/world doesn't mean that it is right. Other characters did not do the same under the same position as Otto. I think that it is not quite fair to leave out several characters (such as only comparing Otto with the Sea Snake), comparisons, and things that Otto did (such as pushing and manipulating his daughter into hating her friend) in this discussion because when these are included, it will be very clear what Otto did wrong. Like the show (2nd season) very much highlights the fact that Otto manipulated his daughter (not just into marrying the king), passing down to his grandchildren, into something worst and that came back to bite himself.
Corlys offered his daughter in a marriage pact, While Otto sent his unwilling daughter straight into the grieving kings bedchambers. While trying to marry off your very young daughter too an adult is fucked up, sending your young daughter into an adults bedroom in your dead wifes revealing dresses is no less fucked up. Had Otto offered a marriage pact like Corlys then you would have a point, but what Otto did was wrong.
Whilst it’s quite fucked up, from a purely practical stance, it was a pretty good move. Laena was the better marriage option and in order for Otto to beat Corlys in the race for Visery’s hand he needed to do something to better Alicent’s chances. So he planted his daughter in the Kings bedchambers and got Viserys to “lust” for her. So he won the contest.
You need to read the book, in the book Alicent is already an adult, the story in HOTD definitely tries to put the Greens in a bad light, whilst the books are much more neutral.
Well, mostly just ambition. Ambitious men tend to be more evil than not. And a competent ambitious man is scary. Honestly, competence tends to make ambitious people more likable. Like Tywin. Remove the competence you get Cersei.
@@B1ackWolf nah, evil can be found everywhere, evil people are far fewer in between. For them to be evil there has to be a level of enjoyment in their evil deeds, like if they knew they would get away with it, they'd do it where it was necessary or not. Sadism.
@@timwhite5562 ... that's not what evil means. Sadism is when someone gets pleasure from the suffering of others. You don't have to be sadistic to be evil. Tywin wasn't sadistic but he did plenty of evil things. He didn't do them because he enjoyed doing it. He did them for the sake of his ambition. Yes, there are plenty of things that can make someone evil, and ambition is one of them.
@@B1ackWolf I was separating evil people from evil deeds. People can do evil things without being evil themselves, and someone can be evil BECAUSE they did the very same thing. The difference is one does it out of necessity in the service of mitigating some larger disaster, the other is completely unaware of the larger disaster and just did it because they could, and it gives them some thrill. To whomever is on the receiving end of that decision, the difference between the act and the person who commits it is not even academic, it's irrelevant. None the less there is a difference, at least for everyone else's. The former did it for a reason, and in spite of committing an act some would view as evil, they're not likely to do it again unless in another position where it's necessary. The latter is just a sick f**k and could very well do anything for any reason. Otto Hightower and Tywin Lannister are the former; Ramsay Bolton is the latter. One you can negotiate with. They other? 🤷
I think thats why it was such a shame that the writer chose to make it easier for the audience to choose sides between the black and green by them ensuring that all the heinous acts are only undertaken by the characters they want you to hate whereas there are good and bad characters on both sides.
This man sold his daughter to Viserys for marriage and he didn't think nor care about the repercussions about Alicent's relationship with Rhanera. He's a "Great" father.
The differences you provide between Otto and Littlefinger are true. On the surface, they are similar, but once you start to go deeper it becomes clear that they are different. Even their beginnings are different. One is a keeper of peace, and the other is a causer of chaos.
Otto didn’t need to do any of these things though. The Hightowers are already one of the most powerful houses in the realm, and Alicent would have prosperity and security no matter what, as a high born daughter. While its possible that the realm would have been divided anyway with Rhaenyra as heir, Otto definitely pushed this division for his own interests. This video doesn’t mention that Otto was the key member of the plot to usurp the throne, killing those lords who supported Rhaenyra, and ironically creating the war he said was “inevitable”. I do not think that he cares at all about his family, only for their status and power. In this way a better comparison might be between him and Tywin. The few scenes we see with Otto and Alicent in S1 show her visibly uncomfortable. He just uses her as a tool for the gain of his house, and ultimately, I see his failure with Alicent as a cycle continuing with her failure with her own children. In S2 (spoilers) He clearly does not care about Jaehaerys, Helaena, nor Alicent. In the scene in Ep2 where he proposes the funeral procession, he says that he “loved” Jaehaerys, which to me seemed fake and forced. This isn’t really an argument, but in all of the scenes with his family I just don’t see any real affection for them. In short, he is a good hand but a bad father, and someone who doesn’t really care for the realm
Otto receives far too much hate. To touch/add on the marriage proposal he made of Aegon II and Rhaenyra, he was even against the idea of attempting to convince Viserys I that Rhaenyra shouldn't be heir, like his own brother Hobert Hightower suggested. He says specifically "I don't think the King will see it that way", and Hobert says, "Then you must make him see it, Lord Hand". So yes, Otto is a great character.
Otto and Daemon are both second sons. Theyre both in a situation where they have to do something scummy to move up in the world and be more than just a servant to the their older brothers. They just go about it in different ways.
. FINALLY COMMON SENSE!!!!! Corlys was willing to give his 8 year old daughter to viserys but everybody forgets that happened.
Exactly !!!! Though she was 12 not 8 but yes people are ignoring everything of blacks side .
@@mg-cx5tv Aaaah my mistake.
The right choice was Corlys daughter. Politically it made more sense. He would have married into a more powerful family and solidified unity throughout the realm. This is a mistake he tried to rectify by Marrying Rhaenyra into their family.
because the show is putting the targaryeans on the forefront...subconsciously people root for the targaryeans and see the hightowers as social climbers. sadly people don't think objectively, but that's also part of how the fandom behaves
@@dontatme__ - The right choice would have been to marry low-born whore or no one at all. Any high-born marriage was a threat to Rhaenyra. A son of Viserys and a former whore might have been a threat as well, if he was competent, but at least he would not have the family of a lord paramount bound by blood to back him.
Otto fits perfectly into what a Medieval Lord should be and would have done
Otto Hightower, from House of the Dragon, may exhibit characteristics common to ambitious medieval lords, but his actions exceed typical medieval conduct and venture into morally reprehensible territory. Unlike many historical lords who sought power through marriages, alliances, and occasional conflicts, Otto’s methods are marked by extreme manipulation and betrayal. He actively plots to subvert the established line of succession by placing his grandson, Aegon II, on the Iron Throne, directly opposing King Viserys I’s declared heir, Rhaenyra (Martin, 2018). This deliberate undermining of the king’s will and destabilization of the realm through instigation of the Dance of the Dragons marks him as particularly unscrupulous (Condal & Sapochnik, 2022).
Furthermore, Otto’s willingness to sacrifice familial bonds and moral integrity for power highlights his exceptional ruthlessness. Historical medieval lords often balanced their ambitions with loyalty and duty to their kin and liege. Otto’s betrayal of his own family members and manipulation of key figures to incite civil war suggest a level of moral bankruptcy that goes beyond typical medieval power struggles (Abraham, 2022). This relentless pursuit of power at any cost, even at the risk of plunging the realm into chaos, positions Otto not as a standard medieval lord, but as a figure driven by an excessive and destructive lust for dominance.
References
Abraham, D. (2022). House of the Dragon: Behind the Scenes. HBO.
Condal, R., & Sapochnik, M. (2022). House of the Dragon [TV series]. HBO.
Martin, G. R. R. (2018). Fire & Blood: 300 Years Before A Game of Thrones (A Targaryen History). Bantam Books.
@@bri-manhunter2654 Well, it's no secret that showrunners sympathize more with Blacks. Although for me he and the Greens are almost heroes who saved the dynasty from a bastard on the throne.
@@goro114bastard?! How is Jace a bastard when A - Laenor and Velaryons accepted him as part of their family with Corlys saying “They remember names, not blood” and B - He still claims legitimacy through his marriage with Baela who is the daughter of Laena and Daemon and C - Jace would have made a good king through diplomacy (Dealings with Freys, Starks, Arryns)
@@ElectricAlect He is a bastard, and Laenor's opinion is irrelevant. Whatever he accepted, it will not change the circumstances of Jace's birth, which disqualify him from the throne.
@@goro114 it is relevant when the head of the dynasty accepts as his own, and Laenor the father accepts as his own as well. It does not disqualify at all.
Daemon is a sociopathic narcicist who murderered his young wife. Otto's determination to keep him away from the throne demonstrates his commitment to the realm.
Otto's opposition to Daemon is entirely hypocritical given the fact that he wants to put a degenerate lazy pdf file on the throne. He is not committed to the realm at all. He is a moralistic, deceitful, self serving hypocrite.
Low iq comment@@seto_kaiba_
Otto reminds me of Ibrahim Pasha, Grand Vizier under Süleyman the Magnificent.
@@seto_kaiba_ - A lazy bum on the throne is much better than a crazy murdering lunatic. A lazy bum will simply let the hand rule for him.
@@seto_kaiba_who is the pdf file? I don’t remember any implication that Aegon was a pedo.
There's nothing that makes Otto exceptionally evil for a man of his setting. He's just the archetypical ambitious lord. Most lords would've taken the opportunity to marry their daughter to the unmarried king without a son as well. On the contrary, he's such a pragmatic and talented statesman that even Jaehaerys I recognized him. He pretty much always gives the most objective advice for a medieval context. Haters will say that him picking Rhaenyra over Daemon and then Aegon is a contradiction but it's not. Male preference primogeniture says children of Monarchs's come before siblings and that principle does give Rhaenyra a leg up over Daemon. With Aegon however, the dilemma becomes brother or sister. Also, Aegon marrying Rhaenyra is much less weird than Daemon marrying Rhaenyra. The age gap is much worse for Daemon and Rhaenyra. It was the best advice.
Considering that Aegon and Rhaenys are the male and female candidates to the throne with the strongest claims or that the customs and precedents heavily support the Greens at all, Rhaenyra's claim with bastards to follow her is so weak that she would have to deal with Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron to save her dynasty from them or their descendants. Them or their descendants will inevitably press their claims against the Strong boys at some point since they could always claim to be the true kings. Otto didn't orchestrate this war as much as people think he did. In understanding a medieval setting one can see that most of what Otto says is common sense. This is why he would support a son even if he wasn't his grandson. Succession rules applied consistently means less dynastic conflict because people aren't claiming the throne by wildly different metrics (heir by customs and precedents vs named heir).
As for his hatred of Daemon, it's clearly justified given how so many of his actions already would be grounds for deposition or would otherwise be seen as extremely cruel even by medieval standards. He's the epitomy of "doing whatever the hell you want just because you're a Targaryen." He's summarily executing people all the time. He's a literal murderer and does it in almost every episode.
And, despite what people think about medieval societies, killing your wife and/or treating her the way Daemon did was always looked down upon. Everyone even knows Daemon killed her or at the very least they suspect him of doing it. Viserys was just too spineless to do anything about it
First of all even if rhaenyra doesn't wants to kill her siblings she would have to eventually because there would always be a risk of rebellion and backstabbing etc even if she wouldn't have had bastards , she would never let her half brothers live or anyone from her side would have get them killed if she would become the undisputed queen.
Suppose if after war greens lost , blacks won and in this alternative version all rhae rhae's kids are alive. How can people be so naive as to think that Daemon Targaryen would let her bastards take place before his own trueborn sons? That man is crazy about blood purity and all. He would have find a way to get rid of strong boys one way or another and before or after would get either full control over rhaenyra aka queen or put her in a cell or something , I mean are we forgetting that he took her to brothel to defame her and wanted to marry her simply to get closer to power ?
Besides what otto did is same what corlys did just played better and won. Yeah I hate all this as a woman and feminist but in those days things were unfortunately like this and that's why people don't want to understand TG characters ( except few actually problematic ones like Larys, aegon ) , people think they would seem old fashioned to even understand these characters so they simply settle for seem silly and judge these characters by 21st century.
Those who can't understand HOTD's medieval world should really watch Magnificent Century, that series is the reason why I could understand TG and intentions of Alicent specially.
The ironic part is that you can totally remove the Greens descendants and still have a real civil war between the Strong boys and their little brothers (Aegon and Viserys) because ain't no way Daemon the supremacist will be happy seeing Jace Strong sitting at the iron throne while his silver haired boys are just the "loyal brothers", lol Daemon's whole personality is about not respecting those with more than 25% non-valyrian dna 😂, and I don't want anyone to tell me he won't because Jace will marry Baela, Daemon not once thought of Baela's rights on Driftmark (neither the feminist Corlys and Rhae) all for the sake of getting closer to the throne through Rhaenyra, I don't think he'll chose Baela's offspring over his own sons,
on a final note: the Blacks are extremely patriarchal, because they're ready to take away Baela's rights and give it to any boy whether a Velaryon or not, a trueborn or not (I'm pointing out to Alyn) Corlys will give Driftmark to any boy but not Baela yet expect the Greens to throw away their beliefs and safety for Rhaenyra and her Strong boys because it's convenient for him and his ambition, the Blacks are misogynist in denial, the worst type
There's nothing that makes him evil in any setting.
Otto has definitely ambitions for the throne, but he always puts the good of the kingdom first. He genuinely admired Viserys as his friend and king, and wanted to keep the peace. Ironically, that led to the civil war they have now.
Not sure why people compare Otto to Littlefinger. Larys Strong is this show’s closest parallel to Littlefinger. Otto is more like Tywin.
They are pretty similar, but Tywin is pretty much what Otto wishes he was
@@FahimAhmed-xj9lq not really tywin would have wished to have his daughter marry the king.
@@Oh-God-Of-All-Creation But she literally did? Cersei and Robert, no?
@@FahimAhmed-xj9lq Its other way around !!!
Otto succeded in every aspect where Tywin failed !!
@@FahimAhmed-xj9lq This Tywin glazing leaves you blind to the fact that Tywin's actions will likely lead to the end of the Lannisters, while the Hightowers survived to post ASOIAF.
People calling Otto the "new littlefinger" and "a snake" don't understand his character at all. By all accounts, he was a solid Hand of the King, did it for years, and was Politically savvy
He more Like Tywin
I viewed him as the new Littlefinger when watching the first couple of episodes (of the first season), but he grew on me over time because he was more so a logical person with layers to his character and I realized how wrong I was to project him as another Littlefinger. He truly loved and wanted to protect his daughter by marrying her to Viserys, while also serving his own needs. It does create some questions about which is more important to him but I don't doubt his love for her. Also, he understood his place and worked to keep himself in that position of power that suited him.
Who says he's like Littlefinger???? I always thought larys was more like littlefinger than otto
Larys is the closest parallel in this show to Littlefinger. People who compare Otto to Littlefinger are smoking crack lol. Otto is more similar to Tywin, behind Hand of the King and ruthlessly politically savy.
He is like Tywin but Tywin is a bit more hardcore, both are smart characters
The only problem with Otto is that he underestimated the stupidity of his grandson Aegon and didn't prepare properly prepare him for the throne. Even though Aegon isn't a monster as Maegor was, he's a terrible king, driven by lust, anger and hedonism. Otto recognized this a long time ago - but either he nor Alicent took Aegon under their guidance or tried to change his behaviour.
Aegon was never raised right, he had a deadbeat dad and an emotionally manipulated woman as a mother.
In further defence his first born was also brutally murdered. I think anyone would go crazy
@@deejaydj6013 Yes, that also plays a huge part in his development. He might not always have been the best husband or even the best father, but he clearly loved Jahaerys very much. :(
Aegon was a mess well before he had children. He was failed by his father, mother and Otto. In their defence they were ruling a kingdom and probably had little time but they should have made time.
I must agree with this one, if father and mother failed educate their son than a grandfather duty to step in especially for a man with so much power like Otto 😅
You can hate Otto as much as you want but you can't deny the fact That OTTO IS ALWAYS RIGHT EVENTUALLY
Fax
I mean, He started a civil war that irreparably harmed the Targaryen dynasty. And caused untold devastation and loss of life.
Even if he had done nothing, the war would have started sooner or later, because the "heiress" wants to put a bastard on the throne after herself, despite the fact that she has two legitimate younger sons, how many years would have passed until the children of Strog and Daemon start dancing and plunge the country into complete A nightmare? And that's not to mention that the Greens will always be in danger with a king consort like Daemon. God, just let Aegon be king and the country will forget about the blacks as a terrible dream
He caused the dance by over stepping his ambition. He was doing well until wanting Aegon to be crowned. He already secured dragon riders exist in his family line and that his family is royalty.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba Beyond that he expressly violated the will of his king who he was sworn to serve to the best of his ability; Viserys had never expressed any desire for his daughter to be anything other then his heir.
Beyond that, Aegon the 2nd was ~quite frankly~ shit; he had none of the proper education or experience to perform the duty of leading the realm and as such his reign was frankly lackluster.
Let’s all be honest, the true “villain” behind the Dance was Viserys poorly management of his personal life and inheritance.
He never acknowledged the mess he did by naming a heir in a rushed manner just for then marrying again and finally have a male heir. His silence over the obvious elephant in the room was one of the main reasons the Targaryen dynasty almost went downhill in a matter of a few years after his death
Right on!
Viserys doesnt get even nearly enough slack for his catastrophic Decisions. That Guy ensured that a civil War will break out after his gone.
Still, a considerade Part of the Fandom even considers him to be a great King, WTF?
In episode 3 (season 2), Rhaenys said "Otto Hightower would never approve this". She was referring to the attempted assassination of Rhaenyra by Ser Arryk, which resulted in his and his twin brothers' deaths. Even Rhaenys knew that Otto was a reasonable and level-headed man.
She said cause it was stupid
She said it cause that was stupid move and Otto wont make such stupid move
How people blame Otto for what Viserys did or what didn't I never understand. Viserys always thought he is living in a wonderland while Otto knew the reality of Westeros.
Uuuh, because perhaps, he’s her father while viserys is not emotionally or familiarly responsible for her
@@tylergracyne2511what are you even talking about?
@@tylergracyne2511 me when I can't read:
Viserys was a weak king and Otto manipulated him to his whim.
Thats all.
Daemon is Aemond but got a better brother than Aemond did.
@@user-tr2ec1kz9gat least aemond is not a pedo like daemon who basically groomed his niece.
You make some very interesting points.
Still Otto's plans often seem pretty flawed. If Aemond hadn't happened to claim Vhagar (something Otto had nothing at all to do with) the Greens position is far weaker. Otto later launched a Coup d'etat in Aegon's name without first securing Aegon's support. There was a non-zero chance that he could have been left without the king he was fighting for. Even once he had Aegon on the throne it was a king who'd never been prepared to rule and who actively disliked Otto.
I think the popular villification of Otto is exaggerated but to say he did nothing wrong is going a bit far.
Of course I am not suggesting that he was successful, clearly he was not, but I think from his perspective, he did what he had to.
As a grandfather, he was not wrong for expecting Aegon's support in the coup.
Wouldn't say he actively disliked Otto, just wasn't overly fond of him
Still not sure about that. Rhaenyra sent her sons off after saying she does not want to rule over a kingdom of ash and bones. So she definitely planned to try to get the throne
This is some fair criticism. Otto really should have put more effort into preparing Aegon for his role and paving the way for a smooth succession, he could have secured him strong alliances beside the Hightowers and Lannisters and found decent marriage pacts for his siblings. And he should have encouraged them to claim powerful dragons like Vermithor or Silverwing. It's amazing how poorly they were prepared for something so predictable and long awaited as the kings death. I suppose his efforts were hindered somewhat by his dismissal and his absence in Aegons youth. He also couldn't risk making his intentions too obvious to Viserys.
If Aemond hadn't claimed Vhagar I don't think Otto would have proceeded as he did.
I really like the duality of Otto's character. On one hand, he's committed to the good of the realm, whilst on the other, he is a self serving politician who wishes to advance the status of his own house. Many of his actions are understandable within the context of the world, even if they are not justifiable by our standards. Brilliant character.
This is the most precise and succinct summary of his character. He's like a kinder Tywin really :D
He may have facilitated the shit they find themselves in, but I pity Otto in S2. He is forced to watch his idiot family ruin all of his an Viserys' accomplishments.
I love that Otto has spent his entire life ruining Daemon's aspirations for the throne. I have a thing for underdogs and to see a mere knight and second son unabashedly defy this prideful, malevolent prince who thinks himself so superior is just entertaining as hell.
Wait Otto was a second so god I got to reread fire and blood
@@AegonTargaryenthesecond3096 Yeah, his older brother even appeared in Season 1 (and looks much younger than Otto 😅)
@@AL73250 and now I got rewatch hotd
In the end otto line dies out but not the hightowers they are really smart when you think about it, all through the dance nothing happens to the old town they suffered some losses to their army and wealth but they pretty much came out unscathed out of the dance.they even get a Targaryen princess as a bride, daemon daughter 😂 no less.
@@ratikantrout1865 Hightowers stay winning no matter what 💪
The mistake Otto made was not preparing Aegon on the DL to be king.
Didn't think that Aegon was going to be so impulsive and stubborn. A terrible miscalculation.
Doesn’t help that he was completely absent from Aegon being 2 to 13
finally someone with a common sense.
You're forgetting all the times that Viserys tried to give Daemon the benefit of the doubt, and Otto told him with zero proof that Daemon was plotting against Viserys. And whenever Daemon would try for Viserys' attention, Otto would intercept those efforts, and tell Daemon that Viserys doesn't trust or love him, which Otto KNOWS isn't true, since Viserys tells him that he wants to reconcile with Daemon. When Otto goes to Dragonstone, he lies to Daemon's face that Viserys has no interest in hearing out Daemon, despite Viserys suggesting he to go to Dragonstone to settle the feud himself.
Otto might not be as slimy or traitorous as Littlefinger, but he's just as conniving and dishonest. Truthfully, Otto is Littlefinger if you remove all of Littlefinger's weaknesses and replace them with more intelligence. Otto did what Littlefinger couldn't. He was able to obtain the second highest position in the realm, and secure power for his bloodline in as few political maneuvers as possible. Peter Baelish never even came remotely as close as Otto Hightower to sitting on the throne. Otto Hightower is closer to Tywin Lannister in terms of influence and power, as both effectively ruled the seven kingdoms from the position of Hand of the King, by controlling young kings with no head for politics.
But to say that Otto Hightower was faultless is a lie and a delusion, or a purposeful misrepresentation of the truth. He had plenty of insight into Daemon, and was worried mainly that Daemon wanted to replace Otto, and there was precedent for it. Kings had often names their brothers to be Hand of the King, and Daemon even confronts Viserys for the very fact that Daemon was never made his Hand, so we know Otto was right to be worried about his job. But the way he went about securing his position, trying to sow discourse between Daemon and Viserys, and knowingly trying to usurp Rhaenyra's claim to the throne (he knew Viserys wanted Rhaenyra to be Queen, but went against it anyway) was all kinds of underhanded. As soon as Aegon is crowned king, Otto spends the rest of the Dance waging war against the rightful heir, that's treason in the show, and its dishonest because we all know that he knows Rhaenyra is supposed to be queen. Otto knowingly pits brother against sister, and causes a civil war. He obviously doesn't expect it to cause the extinction of House Targaryen, but he's also still starting a civil war. Whether you hate or like Otto Hightower, you can't act like this is for the good of the realm. This is pure selfishness, he's willing to spill blood and let all seven kingdoms suffer the casualties if it means he wins.
People saying Otto proves to be correct later on are also being disingenuous since he is a key player for the events that happens.
If he were a bystander observing from the outside it would makes sense but since he’s actively throwing rocks and pointing fingers it comes off as hypocritical.
If only this video can go viral to all the supporters of the blacks, It's like they are applying the standards of the the modern world instead of the times envisioned by GRRM esp the role of women and security for family imo, Thanks for great content , Go Greens
Black supporters are not applying "standards of the modern world", only the fantasies of the young fools who call themselves "progressive" and believe they are the first generation to have a brain.
The writers and directors either purposely showed the story from Rheanyra’s limited pov, or the audience are easily lead astray.
Because put a dope background music behind some useless character and suddenly, they are baddass? I hope the writers write and direct the greens like they are the heroes in season 2, I want to see how people react to that so bad. Then in future seasons, play neutral.
Otto Hightower is my favorite character in HOD. I agree with you 100%. That is why I support Team Green.
This men singlehandedly put targaryens to their knees by killing their dragons that terrorised his house in the past !!!! This guy is a perfect hero or villain whatever you want call in his own right !!!
Otto is the only sane person in the show 💚
Rhaenys?No?
@@RayVitolesshe slaughtered common folk in the dragon pit in ep9 while she could have ended the war that she ended up joining anyway
The previous hand to viserys was pretty solid aswell.
you didn't address the number one thing he did wrong - his coup. he was planning on putting Aegon on the throne despite Viserys making it clear that he picked Rhaenyra as heir. and he planned on doing this even before the whole "prince that is promised" death bed misunderstanding. this has led to civil war and the death of thousands, and debunks your claim that he did nothing wrong
yes he went against the kings will, but it always seemed more as a move to prevent conflict, thinking not everyone would except a woman, i genuinely believe he thought what he was doing is right, especially since her children were clearly bastards but the king ordered everyone to ignore it or accept it as not true, otto is trying to maintain stability
Making Rhynera heir was Otto’s idea however that was mainly to prevent a daemon take over and sorry in a medieval society the kings first born son is the rightful heir and Rhynera never made herself into a good heir.
I am so glad there are still people out there who are able to think, and analyze smart decisions and motives of people and not confuse it with treachery and malice. In GOT it was kinda obvious that the Lannisters are the bad guys since they have done several evil things with or without much reason, like Joffrey and Cersei did.
But here both sides are relateable and understandable, and it's up to the audience whose side are they on based on their views.
It's partly because of Otto why I am team green since their characters feel much more real, relateable, disciplined and overall a lot of them are much more better people than the blacks.
In summary, that was a great video explaining how many of Otto's moves were based and actually bold and smart. So great job my man!
Almost all of these refutations are red herrings. The main issue people have is that his ambition to have his grandson on the throne, no matter how unfit he is, and despite the fact he's not the named air causes the war. Otto planned to have Aemon crowned even before he was aware of Alicent's misunderstanding of the king's final words. You'd have to argue that Otto was right in directly disobeying his king's orders for his goals and that there would be a rebellion if the Green faction didn't pop up around Aemon, without the support of the hand and the high council. In the scenario that Otto forewent his ambition and supported the Rhaenyra's planned succession, I don't think it's likely there would have been a groundswelling of lords going against their word and rejecting her. If you can't disagree with that, you have to rely on your rationale that Otto's ambition is justified and justifies the war.
Exactly. Otto could have decided to support Rhaenyra from the get go and with him on her side, the rebellion would have been practically impossible.
He could have suggested actual smart ways to deal with the issue of her bastard children. He could have helped Rhaenyra and secure his bloodline in the throne if he got Haelena married to Jaecerys, for instance. Might have even avoided Rhaenyra's second marriage.
But alas, I don't think he would have stomached serving Rhaenyra's promiscuity and entitlement. He just seems like that.
People criticise Otto for having ambitions for his family. Well what about Rhaenyra? 3 of her sons are bastards yet she wants Jacerys to inherit the Throne, and Lucerys to inherit Driftmark. She has her ambitions as well and, unlike Otto, hers are based on lies. Viserys MARRIED Alicent it's above board the Hightowers are legally in-laws of the royal family. His plan worked. Rhaenyra just stumbles from one disaster to another and blames everyone but herself.
The first season I absolutely hated Otto . After watching the first 2 episodes of season 2 , I’m hating him less and less . He hasn’t done anything that’s truly evil unlike Daemon and Rhaenyra.
What did Rhaenyra do that was "truly evil"? Also, Otto had the body of a child paraded in the streets against the parents' wishes in season 2 episode 2.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 the show is whitewashing her from all the things she did. Vaemond death for example making Only Daemon involved when in reality she had him killed by Daemon and fed his body to Syrax. And I believe they added this prophecy thing to justify her terrible and evil actions in the future of the dance to make it seem like she did all of this for the greater good.
@@fai_sal7554 That's not "truly evil" though. That's just cruel. "Truly evil" would be like k*lling babies and stuff. But I do agree that the show is downplaying Rhaenyra and Alicent's worst qualities in order to make them more likeable.
@@sushmitaraodesaraju6330 killing Laenor her husband for no good reason other than to marry Daemon and to make her enemies fear her also putting a bounty on Maelor’s head a child which got him killed in the end is evil enough for u??
Tell me this isn’t the actions of a villain
@@fai_sal7554 You're getting the show and books confused. The OP and I are talking about the show. Everyone in the book is evil, more or less. Otto, Daemon, Aemond, Aegon, Rhaenyra, and Alicent included. And Rhaenyra only posted rewards for Aegon, Jaehaera and Maelor's capture in the books, not their de@ths. I was asking about what "truly evil" acts has Rhaenyra committed in the show.
As you said, I think that problem with Otto might lie in the show's composition. In my opinion the show makes blacks' decisions more understandable and explored than the greens'. Everyone is cheering for Daemon and Rhaenyra while Alicent and the rest tends to be portrayed as the bad ones
I hope they explain why the greens wanted to make Aegon king because there are several good reasons. I don't know why they would leave them out of the 1st season since it would add more context then them just being power hungry. But because it would keep the realm at peace and fulfill Viserys dream he told Aemma in episode 1
The show is entirely written for young American idiots and it is obvious in every scene.
Very well made. Made me reconsider my thoughts on Otto 👏
From Day 1, Otto did an everything to avoid the Dance of Dragons within the context of his situation.
Literally, he was the one who suggested the Aegon and Rhaneyra betrothal which would have a) satisfied the realm, b) given Rhanyera multiple years and a potential regency before having to become Queen consort, c) satisfied the Hightower factions, and d) appeased the Velaryons because Aegon’s children could have been betrothed to an Daemon/Laena’s kids.
Otto was the only reasonable person but no one listened to him.
I really love your analysis!
People laugh at me for saying Ottos my favorite character
Otto is basically Lord Tywin. Ibtelligent, eloquent, pragmatic and ambitious. In both cases, the realm benefited from their tenure as Hand of the King
But he is a far better version of him and succeded in time when odds arent in his favour and a one wrong move could end his entire house burnt to dust unlike tywin who always had everything in his favor but still failed in his goal !!!
Otto: find out whose happy and tell me what theyre happy about
Larys: find out whose unhappy and tell me what they are unhappy about
Littlefinger: find out who wants a secret kept then offer them a place to keep it...
So as hand of the king, he defied the kings orders to put the rightful heir on the throne, a peaceloving queen instead made a coup to put his drunken psycho 10 IQ grandson on it thus starting a civil war. And all this is explained away with he has ambition and was stunning and brave when he went to dragonstone :D
Yep, pretty much my thoughts, basically anyone playing the game of thrones is a villain in this show, because they directly or indirectly cause open wars, rebellions or civil wars if only they just followed the Viserys' wishes everything would be peaceful, Aegon didn't want the throne and Aemond was hateful Otto should have known neither of them would make good kings,
Season 2 killed this with Otto expressing awareness that nobody (importantly Viserys) wanted Aegon to be king, and that he put Aegon there anyway despite Aegon being entirely unprepared to rule.
I blame the show writers for the oversight of it though. Having Otto believe that he is doing what is best for the realm, that conveniently happened to have some self interest sprinkled in, fit the character better. They just had to destroy it with one poorly thought out scene. At least Otto's actor sold it beautifully to dampen the pain the scene inflicted on the deeper plot elements.
But it's true, I didn't even need to be said.lol
Everyone knows what a degenerate Aegon is.
Team green is here! ❤ Love the video. Otto could see the realities of Westeros and always acted accordingly. Didn't spill the first blood and always tried to compromise. He is far better than Daemon, just because he didn't choke Rhaenyra or didn't beat a soldier out of small d**k anger people doesn't like him.😂
This guy gave his teen daughter to a man his age for power. Anyone that thinks he “did nothing wrong” has issues.
I always favored the side Daemon wasn't on, so I could understand him well.
Otto has the wish and drive to improve his families standing. He doesnt do so by some dagger and poison method but by carefully political movements and diplomacy. Honestly the only argument you could bring against his political actions in general is saying that in a feudale society no one should dare and try to improve their own standing.
Also if you look at daemon only through his actions...than daemon is a bloody psychopath
I love Otto tbh. I think he’s more comparable to Tywin who I also love.
Otto will eat Tywin for breakfast lol
Otto fills that void that Tywin Lanister left XD
Tywin a child in comparsion to otto !!!!
It’s important to remember that Vizzy is like the 5th targ king. The second king was killed by Maegor. Maegor married a Hightower and horribly abused her and the realm. If you see Desmond as Maegor 2 then a lot of Otto’s actions begin to make sense.
The second Targaryen king was Aenys. He died of poor health. Maegor wasn't even in Westeros when that happened. Maegor killed his nephew Aegon, who was the heir to the throne, but was not king. And just like Daemon, Maegor had a love-hate relationship with his brother and thought his brother a weak King, but neither of them ever tried to hurt their brothers. If Maegor and Daemon had actually wanted to hurt their brothers to seize the throne, neither of them would have gone into exile silently when their brothers banished them from court and from Westeros. They would've just killed them instead, because both Maegor and Daemon had formidable dragons. Yet they never did that, did they?
A dragon ls worth an eye. He was an ambitious schemer who worked for power, not ruthless but a Machiavellian trouble maker. Viserys imho is the villain of the series.
Facts, Daemon was right all along. He gave reality check to Viserys but he was stupid enough to not take it seriously and more as slander.
Even if you see the council meetings it was mostly Otto who took decisions, Viserys was just a damn puppet who will listen to almost every council of Otto except when it was about Rhaenerya.
Lyonel Strong was the best hand of the king viserys had.
Corlys proposal to the King was open and direct. Otto was calculated and premeditated.
He had his daughter seduce the grieving king. Lmao he forgot to mention that.
Fans often like to forget that the fear factor of Maegor the cruel was still in everyone, even extending to King Viserys. It shocks me that they think Viserys would even consider Daemon to have a powerful position, or even the throne.
Otto has been the only person making sense on this show.
He wanted to kill his late best friends daughter. He is kind of evil my dude.
He put a crown on a vicious drunken fool. That's not very reasonable.
How is he vicious? He is literally too nice to the common folk that's why Otto was mad at him in episode 1 😂😂😂😂
mr valaritas, thanks for that great video!
I actually really like Otto and Tywin from both of the series. Reasonable men when most are wildly unreasonable.
Agreed. I needed a man like them in my life to guide me when I was young
Tywin reasonable ? His hate for Tyrion was not reasonable, and he paid the price in the end
When Otto married Alicent to Viserys, she was a young and beautiful girl from arguably the most important house in the Reach, and the daughter of the Hand of the King. Her options as a noblewoman were NOT limited; she was at no risk of becoming destitute. In fact, Otto should have realized that her future children would be more at risk if they were potential claimants to the Iron Throne instead of just potential claimants to a lord husband's castle. He did everything for ambition, and made Alicent unhappy and her children unsafe.
He was planning to put Aegon on the throne no matter what Viserys wanted and plotted for years against the blacks. He got what was coming for him, and his biggest success is Aemond being a mirror image of Damon and claiming Veghar which he had nothing to do with him.
He was the one that encouraged Viserys to name his own daughter over Daemon as succsessor. I don't see why he couldn't make Viserys see all the conflicts ahead with her named as heir. I thought of Otto more like Tywin.
Daemon murdered his young wife brutally for no reason he isn't the good guy.
i agree with everything, but why otto try to put aegon on the throne? i believe that's the only thing i don't understand about his character, he surely knew that would set everything on fire and blood
Otto is still the best in that show. No one is perfect but he has demonstrated a character better than even Tywin
Fantastic analysis. Changed my mind. Well done.
Some people really do just live in delusion, my god.
he steals every scene he is in. very commanding..
Your videos are really underrated
Keep up the good work. Your indepth analysis is very hard to find
Thanks a lot!
I can’t understand how there’s so much hate against Otto from the same fans than adore Daemon. Daemon is the most villainous person in the whole show but because he’s so cool everyone just forgets his many flaws.
Ppl love daemon because he’s bad but he’s honest and open about it. He embraces his villainy and scheming, while Otto hides his ambition behind courtesy and protocol.
Tldr; a lot of people value authenticity over niceness
@@angelomendoza6666 was Daemon open and honest about murdering his wife in cold blood? He lies all the time. What are you even talking about?
@@andrewwarren8474 Uhmm in a sense yes? When Rhea’s death was questioned in Laenor and Rhaenyra’s wedding, Daemon did not show a shred of remorse and was even mocking her death and even one-upped the accusations againsy him, basically saying “It doesn’t matter if you accuse me, I can accuse you of false hoods as well”
Also during the 2nd season, when rumors of Jaeherys’ death reached dragonstone, who was at the council table smiling from ear to ear? Daemon. Heck, even Rhaenys and Rhaenyra basically saw that smile as an admission of what he did, but again, he has no guilt for it at the moment. This is why people love him. He’s authentic with his savagery and his ambitions. He may not outright say the truth, but the way he expresses himself is apparent that he’s capable of terrible things and he himself knows it and shows it.
Contrast it to Otto who snakes his way through every situation and always hides behind the guise of justice and the order of things. Unlike Daemon who pursues what he wants regardless of the consequences, Otto stretches the possible breadth of acceptable circumstances in order to further his goal. But many people around him sees him for who he truly is: a scheming man looking to further the power of his house
Deamon is "hot" and edgy, Otto is not
Thats all there is to it
In terms of medeival sense… he is a good father. Perhaps even in modern times he’s still a good father. His terms are my family will survive no matter what and I will fight for them no matter what. Our bias paints him negatively, but he’s exactly the kind of a man you want on YOUR side.
Funny you said Otto take a page from little finger book when it is the other way around lol.
Naah all Otto wants his family on top. His grandsons are the biggest genocidal psychopaths and while he ridicules them, he doesn't want them to not be rulers.
Otto is my favorite character.
He's a mature father figure. Selfless, kind, smart, strong... he's surrounded by idiots and has to "wrangle cats" ... any person is bound to make mistakes, which he did... but his choices were limited.
Saying Otto is not evil, fine. But saying he did nothing wrong is a bit of a push.
He kept the King “drugged” so he could run things. As hand, he well knew that Viserys’ wish was to have Rhaenyra as heir to the throne. He didn’t just put his daughter in front and let things evolve “organically”. He was very much actively trying all he could to undermine not only Rhaenyra’s claim but also that of her descendants. He knowingly pushed many decisions that would have broken the King’s word (ex: The new Lord of Driftmark. Thanks to the King’s epic return that ruined his plans).
At every point, he tried to draw a wedge between the King and his Targaryen family. He used his position to push his own interests above (not concomitantly, or even right after) those of the King. That alone makes him bad. The contrast was clear when Lord Strong was the hand.
Exactly!!! He actively tried to start a civil war, where both sides had dragons. He knew of the devastation that would cause. He is not evil for being ambitious, he evil for placing his ambition for the throne over the lives of the millions of people that live in Westeros. If the Green faction didn't exist, would Rhaenyra's succession been challenged? Probably. But the other side would not have had dragons. People consider Otto evil because he started a needless civil war and ruined the decades of peace that Jaehaerys and Viserys worked for.
People don't hate Otto for his ambition; they hate him because he started a needless civil war with dragons on both sides. He knew his actions would end decades of peace that Jaehaerys and Viserys struggled to maintain. He also knew that war with dragons could and would result in hundred of thousands, if not millions of casualties. He knew all that, and he did it anyway, just for power. That's why people hate him.
He had lord Caswell murdered.
Totally agree
The Dance of Dragons is just a whirlwinds of misunderstandings. Everyone always had some vital piece of information missing that would’ve changed their positions drastically. It’s quite tragic since if the main characters just talked more the Dance would not have happened, or would’ve been more measured.
Season two seriously lacked Rhys Ifans as Otto. They needed an elite actor to take up screen time with Viserys gone now.
Otto swore an Oath to King Viserys he would ensure Rhaenyra would inherit the throne after his death and broke it without hesitation. Bad take
And all the Lords owed Fealty to King Joeffrey in GoT and ignored it
As a non charismatic & logicical man, I thank you for defending us.
Otto is not an evil person by any means, his actions do not depend on his moral compass, but he does politick and scheme with certain lords of westeros to support aegon's claim over rhaenyras, as such he weakens and fractures the realm further(note that im not saying he is entirely to blame for the war) but he does work to fracture the realm (not out of callousness nor sadism, but out of ambition & duty for his house which nonetheless are unjust acts) Hes not a bad person and he tries to minimize collateral damage but he is a vital tool in starting the war and making the war possible in the first place, at least in the show (books are a tiny bit different so far). Yet regarding rhaenyra, people who claim that rhaenyra should be passed over due to matters of tradition & custom should look to our world or westeros's history because progress is always occuring and certain traditions are always being forsaken for the sake of progress and better governing.
I’ve never seen a video essay meat riding the Hightowers. Man was kinda spitting, but I’m still team black.
I disagree he COULD have been on renyas side since day one and choose to not only brack his kings Bond with his brother, but pin his future queen and own daughter in a power struggle for the rest of their lives.
Ambitious and self-sacrificing are opposites and otto has never been self-sacrificing
as always great explanation/analysis from Mr. Valaritas! But still, I support the blacks and Otto would never gain my affection.
Your videos are absolutely amazing, just discovered you channel and have been watching them non stop. Could you make videos about Tommy Shelby from peaky blinders, Negan from walking dead, Lorne Malvo from Fargo, Roger Sterling from Madmen and Felix Gallardo from Narcos Mexico?
Why not!
As one of the main representatives of house High Tower, part of Otto was probably aware and willing to see the Targaryens destroy themselves, even if some of them were his grandchildren. More than the throne, what every great house in Westeros really wanted was to see the end of the Targaryen rule, who showed up from nowhere with their dragons, forced all their Kings to bend the knee and burned thoso who didn't, and installed a line of incestuous Kings and Queens, defiling all westerosy tradition and even messing with their hierarchy of succession, something that was very important for tradicional westeros society since they have been arraging the marriages of their children and their inheritance through that for ages.
House High Tower and Old Town have existed for over 10.000 years. Manipulating things so the Targaryens would use their dragons to kill each other, something only dragons can do, even at the cost of the throne, would probably be worth it in the long run. Manipulation or not, by the time of Roberst's revolt, the Targaryens have become a shadow of the power they had thanks to this conflict.
Hot take, but I believe that Larys Strong the Clubfoot is more like a HotD parallel to Petyr Baelish "Littlefinger"...
Great video 🎉
The expression Otto had on his face before going to inform Viserys of Rhaenyra's shenanigans kind of stood out to me, almost seemed like he knew it would benefit him, but was still reluctant to do it because he does care for Viserys and Rhaenyra too to an extent
still he has no redeeming qualities..
He does, more so than Tywin.
@@Darius-_being calculating is not a good quality to have at all
@@Darius-_ I personally disagree whether it does help you in a way to go about obstacles, having calculating tendencies is a very disingenuous attribute to possess and is not a positive one.
He does, god he could play chess with Magnus Carlsen and he definitely loves his daughter and wants to ensure the survival of his line. He also has protected the realm best aa he could. Idk. I like Otto!
Otto is certainly an interesting and nuanced character but to say that he did nothing wrong also lacks of nuances as he did a lot of things to push his personal interests against what the king wanted and the best for the realm, which were undeniably choices that he made. Otto pushing his own house is not a rightful behaviour as well because obviously, an action fitting the narratives of that period of time/world doesn't mean that it is right. Other characters did not do the same under the same position as Otto. I think that it is not quite fair to leave out several characters (such as only comparing Otto with the Sea Snake), comparisons, and things that Otto did (such as pushing and manipulating his daughter into hating her friend) in this discussion because when these are included, it will be very clear what Otto did wrong.
Like the show (2nd season) very much highlights the fact that Otto manipulated his daughter (not just into marrying the king), passing down to his grandchildren, into something worst and that came back to bite himself.
Corlys offered his daughter in a marriage pact, While Otto sent his unwilling daughter straight into the grieving kings bedchambers. While trying to marry off your very young daughter too an adult is fucked up, sending your young daughter into an adults bedroom in your dead wifes revealing dresses is no less fucked up. Had Otto offered a marriage pact like Corlys then you would have a point, but what Otto did was wrong.
Whilst it’s quite fucked up, from a purely practical stance, it was a pretty good move. Laena was the better marriage option and in order for Otto to beat Corlys in the race for Visery’s hand he needed to do something to better Alicent’s chances. So he planted his daughter in the Kings bedchambers and got Viserys to “lust” for her. So he won the contest.
You need to read the book, in the book Alicent is already an adult, the story in HOTD definitely tries to put the Greens in a bad light, whilst the books are much more neutral.
Yeah, people tend to confuse competence and ambition with evil.
Well, mostly just ambition.
Ambitious men tend to be more evil than not.
And a competent ambitious man is scary.
Honestly, competence tends to make ambitious people more likable. Like Tywin. Remove the competence you get Cersei.
@@B1ackWolf nah, evil can be found everywhere, evil people are far fewer in between. For them to be evil there has to be a level of enjoyment in their evil deeds, like if they knew they would get away with it, they'd do it where it was necessary or not. Sadism.
@@timwhite5562 ... that's not what evil means.
Sadism is when someone gets pleasure from the suffering of others.
You don't have to be sadistic to be evil.
Tywin wasn't sadistic but he did plenty of evil things.
He didn't do them because he enjoyed doing it. He did them for the sake of his ambition.
Yes, there are plenty of things that can make someone evil, and ambition is one of them.
@@B1ackWolf I was separating evil people from evil deeds. People can do evil things without being evil themselves, and someone can be evil BECAUSE they did the very same thing. The difference is one does it out of necessity in the service of mitigating some larger disaster, the other is completely unaware of the larger disaster and just did it because they could, and it gives them some thrill.
To whomever is on the receiving end of that decision, the difference between the act and the person who commits it is not even academic, it's irrelevant. None the less there is a difference, at least for everyone else's. The former did it for a reason, and in spite of committing an act some would view as evil, they're not likely to do it again unless in another position where it's necessary. The latter is just a sick f**k and could very well do anything for any reason.
Otto Hightower and Tywin Lannister are the former; Ramsay Bolton is the latter. One you can negotiate with. They other? 🤷
And you confused marriage proposal with seduction
Uh he went against his kings wishes . That is wrong he admitted it himself .
I think thats why it was such a shame that the writer chose to make it easier for the audience to choose sides between the black and green by them ensuring that all the heinous acts are only undertaken by the characters they want you to hate whereas there are good and bad characters on both sides.
This man sold his daughter to Viserys for marriage and he didn't think nor care about the repercussions about Alicent's relationship with Rhanera.
He's a "Great" father.
Well... yes? thats how noble Marriages work.
Its not like she could go on dating and marry some Smallfolk Dude she finds hot
otto is somewhere between tywin lannister and peter baelish
Otto to me is like Swearingen in Deadwood... you think "what an asshole!" until HEARST comes along.
Thank you I been arguing this case and everybody keep saying I’m crazy
Otto was about to execute half the Targayan family for daring to come before Aegon in the sucession. It makes sense as a descion, but is evil as hell.
The only thing is that he ordered the lord commander to kill the children and the Rheynira when the kind died...that is very noble of him 😂😂
The differences you provide between Otto and Littlefinger are true. On the surface, they are similar, but once you start to go deeper it becomes clear that they are different. Even their beginnings are different. One is a keeper of peace, and the other is a causer of chaos.
another title: findings reasons for NOT HATE Otto Hightower.
Otto is by far the most logical. That's why he's effective as Hand and easily my favorite character of this story.
He is the best character in entire GOT lore in terms of rising from nothing and managing to purse his goals by defying odds !!
Otto didn’t need to do any of these things though. The Hightowers are already one of the most powerful houses in the realm, and Alicent would have prosperity and security no matter what, as a high born daughter. While its possible that the realm would have been divided anyway with Rhaenyra as heir, Otto definitely pushed this division for his own interests. This video doesn’t mention that Otto was the key member of the plot to usurp the throne, killing those lords who supported Rhaenyra, and ironically creating the war he said was “inevitable”. I do not think that he cares at all about his family, only for their status and power. In this way a better comparison might be between him and Tywin. The few scenes we see with Otto and Alicent in S1 show her visibly uncomfortable. He just uses her as a tool for the gain of his house, and ultimately, I see his failure with Alicent as a cycle continuing with her failure with her own children.
In S2 (spoilers)
He clearly does not care about Jaehaerys, Helaena, nor Alicent. In the scene in Ep2 where he proposes the funeral procession, he says that he “loved” Jaehaerys, which to me seemed fake and forced. This isn’t really an argument, but in all of the scenes with his family I just don’t see any real affection for them.
In short, he is a good hand but a bad father, and someone who doesn’t really care for the realm
Otto receives far too much hate. To touch/add on the marriage proposal he made of Aegon II and Rhaenyra, he was even against the idea of attempting to convince Viserys I that Rhaenyra shouldn't be heir, like his own brother Hobert Hightower suggested. He says specifically "I don't think the King will see it that way", and Hobert says, "Then you must make him see it, Lord Hand". So yes, Otto is a great character.
I would then have to classify his decision of supporting Aegon as a bit short sighted
Otto and Daemon are both second sons. Theyre both in a situation where they have to do something scummy to move up in the world and be more than just a servant to the their older brothers. They just go about it in different ways.