WHY TUNNEL RAMS RULE-FULL DYNO RESULTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2020
- 565 BBC BUILD & DYNO SESSION, SUP VIC VS WILSON TUNNEL RAM. SINGLE 1150 DOMINATOR vs DUAL 1050s. 565 BBC Build & Dyno Test. Run NA on Pump gas, on Q16, with 200 & 250-hp NX Nitrous, then with dual-quad, Tunnel Ram. Who wants 1,100+ hp with nitrous? How Much can we make on the motor? It's only 10.5:1 Compression, but it has a big cam!
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This channel is so addictive! So many combos, so little time.
🤔Yeah, but he made a mistake recommending Chevy big blocks as opposed to ANY Ford engine, which would obviously be MUCH better..... Now, if you're already in possession of(burdened with) a big block Chevy, and you have no money to do the right thing and buy a whole new Ford engine, I'd recommend to at least buy a can of Ford blue engine paint and coat your Chevy engine with it. That'll guarantee you an additional 50hp and 80ft/lbs.
Now start saving $$$, and in no time you'll be able to replace your 502ci GMPP engine with a stock 2.3L Ford Lima 4cyl engine from a 1977 Pinto(or 1986 SVO Mustang). That way you'll be replacing your semi-weak 500hp 502ci GMPP engine with the stock 775hp Ford Pinto 4cyl. Remember to tell your sad Mopar buddies that they too can join the "winning" blue oval team! "Welcome to the power zone, welcome to Ford country"! 😀
I wonder if that cam is too big for my RV. The tunnel ram would look cool sticking out between the seats. LOL
Big Blocks are Awesome, we knew it all the time. I actually built this same engine combo years ago but with compression, it held the track record in a mud truck for two years. Great combo Richard.
It's so funny, people are brainwashed that tunnel rams only work at like 7000 RPMS. NOT ! they make insane low end Torque and really good power. Back to the Richard Holdener >>theory..
Runner length, runner length,runner length.. Thanks again for testing your ass off : )
Yep. At Low RPM too 7500 rpm. right off idel tunnel rams rock. If you muffler the motor enough you can hear a Big Block tunnel ram consuming air. Nice build.
Everything is so improved from 660s Holleys and tunnel rams in late 60s-70s. How many of old timers wash down cylinder walls with stuck float. Or live down in flat land go big car show in mountains and ooops running rich was life with allitude or changing weather fronts. Of course most of us were running hi-rev 327 or not many times hi-rev 409s. Then God Bless America the Real Big Block Chevy L-88 and look at us now. Heck you can by adjustable pushrod guides....yes let my Hot Rod issues run out in 1987. No more cutting PR guides and tack welding. Thanks again finishing my last Hot Rod at 67. Nope not a show car but a hang it in the Wind drive to Kroger. Ordering a Merlin 5'" or 4.5" bore. We'll never would dreamed of aluminum block and spending $10,000 on block and funny oil pan. I think I need a 2800 lb/8.99 sec quarter mile to drive to Kroger....how many times....until one of us can't be repaired..lol!
@@stephenmitchell3569 good deal man , you deserve it ,you've put in your time.
And yes prices are crazy , but you only live once so I say go for it.
One question :
Do you think that will be enough power ?
If you even hesitate for a split second to answer , you need about another 200hp more than you thought 😅
Amen... I've run them for years...
I was waiting for nitrous on the tunnel ram. 🤔
IKR
I wanted to see that as well
Ditto!
Yes two plates, double your pleasure , double your fun!
Ahh. Coffee, Brule, Holdener and big block horsepower. It's going to be a good morning.
enjoy
"Ah, Creme Brule?" No, Steve !
Can't wait for you to do a build on the 8.1 big block, the other engine.
I have an 8.1 580hp 640 torque in my c3 corvette
Shortblocks are stout, just like any big block chevy. The stock cylinder heads are lacking because they don't allow much porting (thin castings), and the exhaust port is a D shape instead of a full circle. (My LS3 heads actually have a bigger exhaust port than the 8.1 heads, intake valve size is the same). Intakes though, theres 1 carburetor intake manifold available in all of the aftermarket so you're limited to that and MSD LS ignition or EFI (no distributor on em).
Parts add up quickly because it doesn't share a single bolt with previous generation big blocks. Junkyard motors are $3K plus, and you're limited to boat guys for a lot of the aftermarket heads/intakes/cams. Boat blocks (mercruiser like I have or etc) are also reverse cooling and truck units aren't. Not very car build-friendly.
When they're done, they're stout. Expensive though, earlier generation big blocks will do similar or more power for 1/2 or 2/3 the price of the 8.1.
@@rustysausage69 My 8.1 has Race Tech Pistons rods etc fully rebuilt .600 lift cam. They make Aluminum Heads for the 8.1 CNC by Raylar. I've owned 8.1 for a long time and they make tons of torque. Tons of HP. Also have the Dart intake carb conversion running a 1000cfm Holley. Makes 580 or so HP and it only cost me 3,000 to build. Got my engine for $500.00 not that expensive to build.
@@rustysausage69 thanks for the info
nice
I've commented before about how great these videos are and this one follows the trend. Please keep them coming. And we can't get enough big blocks!!
I saw a somewhat similar test done on a SBC many years ago. The goal was a "pretty" motor for a hotrod, with a good torque curve for street use. Conventional wisdom said that the dual plane would work best, but it had a mundane look that the guys didn't want. They tried a couple single planes and a couple EFI setups (this is in the days of the TPI), and then they did the tunnel ram ("knowing" that it wouldn't make a streetable power curve).
Of course the tunnel ram had the best power, but it also delivered the best torque everywhere except the very bottom and even then beat everything except the TPI. The guys doing the test (probably HRM or PHR) cautioned that without really good carb tuning, throttle response was going to inevitably be soggy on the TR because of the large plenum.
Which (to me) raises the next obvious question for you to test... Let's see a show car quality tunnel ram setup on one of those junkyard LSs you love (one of the small ones, to prove the point). Use whatever carb setup you like, but extra points for uncommon and more extra points for not using exotic stuff that a regular guy would have a hard time accessing.
I'm betting that you can beat the 100hp per liter mark, while still delivering a solid torque curve below 4k, on pump gas, and even achieve livable throttle response.
Christian Swensen : This is the Dominator version of the almost Port on Port Tunnel Ram Independent Runner systems. Its reduced duty cycle and reduced air speed that gains torque everywhere without hurting the top end power. Each runner is serving only the needs of one intake valve. Look at the peak power rpm come back 500 rpm on the 568. The Goal is the same or more power....with less revs. Hi Carb Diet...Rulze!
A hotrod with a SBC and your NOT looking for mundane. Keep hood shut.
@@bigboreracing356 Because "stupid units" make your dinosaur cast iron lump sound more efficient when it truly isn't ?
A 283ci SBC @ 300hp = 1.060hp per ci.
283ci=4.637 litres, a little bit of Math and that thing is making ONLY 65HP per Litre.
The engine on this video on it's last form made 101.965 hp per Litre. Not bad at all for low compression, 2 valve heads and a heavy valve-train.
Any current day "Rice Burner" does close to 75hp per litre w/o a turbo or supercharger. Is called Progress and Innovation.😁
Put down the "Nationalist flavor Kool-Aid" and smell the "World Wide Coffee".
There's more to the World than "asthmatic cast iron boat anchors U.S.A made OHV V8's".
I bet you had a hissy fit when he uploaded the recent Honda B16 video . . . OH, THE HUMANITY 🙄🤣
Careful there, it may make you doubt your sexuality if you watch it. 😏
@@GIGABACHI Yeah... but no. Those cast iron boat anchors you refer to are still some of the highest BSFC performers in the world, and when outright power is required the entire world still bows at the feet of us yanks.
That said, there's a reason I went with the 100hp per 1 liter mark. Those 4.8L LS engines routinely eclipse the 400hp mark, and good builds are closer to the 450hp mark. I therefore figured that 480hp from a 4.8L or 530hp out of a 5.3L would be more worth bragging about. Those numbers would normally require a power adder in order to achieve anything resembling a streetable torque curve. But that's the beauty of the tunnel ram. When set up right, it allows the revs, and still delivers decent torque across a stupidly wide rpm band.
@@GIGABACHI
The wife's pedestrian 2014 Jetta with a 1.8 is rated at 170.
Not bad on the HP per cc if ya ask me , and like I said it's supposed to be an average Joe on the street.
That's what 40-50 years of innovation has done, it's pretty cool.
The Glory days that I wasn't around for sure looked fun, but how common was it to walk in a dealer and get a new 700+hp car with a warranty?
The muscle is here now actually.
I grew up with the old offenhauser tunnel ram. Had 66 charger 440/4speed/when was 20. Ahh relive the old days
Rich daddy
Every Offenhauser I've ever used surprised me for power and drivability. Are they still in business?
@@tomnekuda3818 i dont know.
@@CharlieBrown-pb9xn wasnt rich but could buy those cars in the 80s for cheap. Wasnt pretty just fast an fun. You seriously could get them cheap. Wish id held onto them.
@@Richard-gy1fo Amen!
Tunnel ram big chevys are my favorite. I've got mine all over my you tube page! Thanks for this video!! Awesome
What I think is that you should put the whole parts list. That way someone can make an awesome motor just like you did. This motor has to sound awesome in person!!!!
I would love to build one exactly like this one👍👍
I think everyone wants to hear what these engines sound like on the Dyno.
Go to samtech. Every day we do this. March 2020 hot rod magazine cover. 2019
engine masters WINNER. I will answer any questions you may have. I'm 42, and just graduated. Call the school, ask for J.R. tell him Jerry told you to call.
You're not wrong, Ron. You're not wrong.
He's aware, and also said several times why its not possible. These tests were mostly done for magazines so it was never recorded, and some of them if I'm not mistaken had issues with a software change.
You nailed that build,great power!
Thanks guys great video , I have been building engines for many years and would really like to try out an engine like this.
I think the tunnel ram is a great choice even on small blocks .
Thanks for your time and consideration on this subject 👍
Now I know why Dave swears by the tunnel ram. Quite impressive!
Thank you Richard for another cool video.
I think you should test different types of ls coils to see if it really makes a difference in power.
I miss my old tunnel ram. Had one on a 454 in an a 78 Chevy pickup, it was known at Temple Academy Dragway as the "eBay truck" because I got all my parts off eBay, LOL!
This is the best channel on TH-cam!
If money wasn’t a problem....... I would love a 944 horse power engine. That’s why I love your junkyard builds. Keep doing it and I will keep watching. Awesome build.
Awesome power from a bolt together combo!!!! Perfect for a bracket racer.
Always great videos and content been helpful to me many many times!
Arhhh you beat me to my comment in your conclusion Richard!... “ needs two kits right?... “
they all do
Yes, double down on the oxidizer.
Awesome stuff Richo!
I like the tunnel combo because of the science behind airflow distribution, more like a prostocker that the average guy can build. Thanks Rich and Steve!!!
That was a cool video, great job.
i love MrB! Good stuff guys, keep it up!!!
Good Video, I ran 565 with two 750s from on a Tunnel Ram. My carbs were prepped by Pro Systems. Worked good.
This channel Rocks Awesome content!!
interesting , raises as many questions as answers! Thanks
This is the best this is very similar too my big block build this going too help me out so much, thanks again for replying too my questions that I sent on Instagram. 👍🏻👍🏻
Glad I could help!
Really great power thanks to careful parts selection, tuning, and paying homage to the Nitrous Gods.......thankfully, the Gods did not require a sacrifice....i.e. rod, piston, who knows? Good upload. The fast-moving air column in a well-designed tunnel ram is 'Magic'!
Without even watching... Its because tunnel rams are huge! Lol! Huge is rad! Been loving the content!
Hey, Holdener.... Brule doesn't like big block chevys....... He LOVES them! I've been racing/ restoring BBC's for over 30 years now. Power to the people! Keep up the great content brother!
Gotta love those high-tech carb spacers. 😄
I love it. Richard says the engine "needs lots of head flow", shows picture of AFR heads. AFR FOREVER!
Next you have to build an aluminum rodded 632 with one 1150 on it and solid roller motor and show my hater that a 1000 hp 632 is to easy. Mine is a 638 but yah...👍👍 oh I meant a N/A 1000hp. Love the vids
extra cubes make it easier for sure
Its just a real great set up.,I a big fan.,,great video,,thanks
Great video !!!
Haha. Funny. I was actually toying around with the idea of building a 565 and here it is. About the perfect combination. Definitely want the Tunnel Ram. Thinking of a 2 lane black top build or American Graffiti but I want stupid power on leaf springs. Found a killer vintage NHRA manifold. Maybe I will see if Wilson manifolds will port it. 😆 wasn't expecting dual 1050's 😳 Thats kind of sweet.
I wish I had access to all these sweet parts u get to test! That thing was a hoss for pump gas!
I definitely like the search for NA power.
I’m with you! I feel like it takes more skill than just adding boost
Loved it !
13:1 pistons would be frosting on the cake
That thing is a monster with the tunnel ram.
I used to run AV gas, with about 25-30% 93 pump gas, it do make a difference running fuel with o2 added! Smells nice also!
One dislike????? Cmon ,who doesnt like big blocks and nitrous?? Great video.
I had a goal..find a single 4bbl top for a weiand Hi ram
No easy task in Australia .. loved the content as usual!! Thanks Richard!
You can do it!
Be thankful! 👍
Awesome video! Would be cool to see the power curve difference with dual throttle bodies and port fuel injectors on the tunnel ram.
same curve-its created by the tunnel ram
Love it I'm a big fan of big blocks
Awesome! Very good info...!
Thank you!
Pump gas 565 with nitrous, pretty much my dream engine. 👍🏻
I want to see "TWO KITS." How about a 440 stroker build like this. The "other guy" BB build. If I could build a tunnel / BB that makes 1200hp for my light layup hydro, I'd be smiling. Loved this. Best Sunday morning in a long time. Thanks, Richard.
Great video interesting like always,
A wild 351 Cleveland upgrade but still able to run on 91-93 pump gas would be highly interesting also
Maybe stroke it to 393? The block is the limiting factor! The rod stroke ratio comes into question! A Windsor is the way to go, the rod/stroke ratio is better, but that 3" nain bearing and that heavy crankshaft comes into question at high rpm! But we turned a stock stroke Windsor to 6900 on a regular basis!
Yep Big block tunnel ram. If you muffler the exhaust enough you can hear the tunnel ram consumming air. From low rpm too 7500 rpm. Awesome torque gangs. Nice build!
Nice set up...like the merlin blocks. ,,,lots of nice gear on this and great set up,,,,be nice in a street car.,,
Love these videos! Love when you show the AFR for each cylinder. When's the big bang Dodge Magnum engines? Lol
218👍's up thanks for taking us all along with you
565 ci bbc made 948 hp 876 torque I use the dart block it's lighter
What a sweet BBC, a buddy has a 565 that's all tricked out (15 to 1 comp., more cam, ProFiler heads&intake, 1250 carb) for his SC/TD, it made almost 1100hp N/A on Panellas dyno. A 565 is just a good combo!
Was this prostreet engine asking because his running it on pump gas
I must add, I have the greatest admiration for him! I occasionally text him for advice on cheap combinations! But, how long will it hold up on a weekly basis? Raced Windsor based Fords for 5 years with no problems! These guys have no problems hitting on til it s!@ts the bed! But, it seems as if you have it tuned right cheap parts will hold up well beyond your expectations! Thanks Eric!!
I would like to see a nitrous setup that spans more of the RPM range. Going from 2.0 to 2.5 increases the power and torgue but at a higher RPM range. It would be interesting to have an electronic setup that spans the nitrous needle from say .5 to 2.5 as the RPM increases.
2 kits is what im waiting for!!
Damn bruh, makes me anxious to see what my combo is going to do with the Holley hi-rise efi intake on that 306 can do... Days are getting closer till it's done!
Very similar to my 540, same heads, almost the same size bore and stroke. But I’m running a 650 lift hydraulic with short travel Johnson lifters and a roots blower
I use a tunnel ram on my Ford Clevelands and Chevy 454 motors and love them
tks for the knowledge!
It's crazy how much more power it made with a tunnel ram
The only improvement I can’t say on all of your builds is that you don’t give a cost for the amount of power. Hey
Bought by the blood of Jesus Jesus Agree , Is this a 15k engine ?
It costs.
Price is a bit of a loaded question. There are parts costs and there are labor costs. They change out parts to test effects so the price is not "set" and changes throughout the video and really doesn't include labor. It seems like some of the stuff being tested is shelf stock, so, they are not "buying" the parts at retail. Some of those costs like engine block machining vary based on location. I think the focus here, which I personally appreciate, is the details on what impacts changes have and why. You want 800hp - you are talking five figures in parts. How high into 5 figures depends on how much power and how long you want it to last. You can look up all the build parts to get a sense if you really must know costs. But nothing mentioned is considered cheap parts.
@@767dag More than that. The heads are $3,667 for a pair from Summit. The dominators are $2400 for the pair. $450+ for the intake, another $450+ for cam, $700 lifters, $124+ for pushrods...The block is $2,680, pistons are almost $1k, rods are $1200, rockers are at least $700 with a girdle. 1700+ if they're shaft mount. MINIMUM $1k crankshaft. More like $2k+. Now add bearings, machining, gaskets (head gaskets are $200 alone) balancing. You're at $15k just in parts without breakin a sweat. Still need ARP stud kit, timing chain, valve covers, balancer, might as well put a vaccum pump on it for $700-900, etc.
Doesn't take long to add up. I was pricing out a 632 for my Camaro and came to the conclusion that a professional engine builder was a more economical choice at that price/power level. They get parts at better prices and can offer dyno tuning before it leaves their shop. Plug n' play for me. For example, I'm looking at similar power N/A 632 that should make north of 900 for $12k and change. Built for a whole lot of nitrous, assembled and dyno tuned.
Mastering one four barrel...yes can do? Dual 1050s....think with my old experience I'll stay with dual Stage 3 NOS...lol! This old guy loves tunnel ram but knows his limitations for all round performance. But tunnel ram will be the awesome girl that got away. Single carb is one that can cook anything well and makes budget good? Love video and best video ever with just you! Thank You for sharing!
Love that Camshaft
I guess I'll just watch this a few more times until you upload your next video.
I can confirm that that actually is an ancient chinese proverb. My grandfather told it to me when I was a boy.
Awesome sauce
Sounds like it’s time for a pair of those summit t6 turbos. 😁
Turbhoe Heflin skip the junky turbos and stick on journal bearing BorgWarner , they are great value and why bolt a hit or miss turbo on a air hungry big block , my 555 makes 1340 to the wheels through a hungry 4l80E with a hydraulic roller with two 69mm Borgs
I have a very unique challenge for you. Find an Offenhauser dual quad intake and put a set of Holley 660 center squirters on a 468 or 496 solid roller 12:1-13:1 and do some pulls to see what kind of power that setup will make.
Makes me wonder if it takes 2feet to open 2 carburetors to wide open throttle in a car!! Looks like a lot of metal to move! I'd love the tunnel ram on the street but I bet my local police officers wouldn't!! Love your power combos and knowledge!
Your comment about the oil problem was very interesting. Always wondered what the Achilles heel of the BBC was.
This applys to all stroker engines
I would love to see the differences in nitrous plates on dual plane intakes! And even single planes and compact the two but I personally would not give up my performer rpm on my 347 sbf stroker... awesome videos man thanks!
dual plane is good on a 347 street motor
Other than to make a statement, it's so hard to find a use for these giant motors. I have parts laying around from boat racing days, but the last time I used a big block in a car, the thing got 4-5 miles per gallon and was neither quiet nor civilized, and handling; well wasn't any. That's why I'm lovin' the turbo/blower stuff you have been doing.
I would love to see cross ram vs tunnel ram. I have two Mercury Marine ram jet intake manifolds, one oval and one square port. Also an Offenhouser cross ram. I was thinking of trying propane mixers in a blow through turbo application on it. Around 104 octane and no fuel distribution problems associated with the cross ram. Cross rams offer hood clearance for that sleeper affect. Big blocks rule!
Hooray for Brule and regards to Razor-sharp Richard! This is scratching me where I itch. Thanks for the pump-gas versus race-gas comparison. Not sure if those pictures were this actual motor but perhaps you could comment on the inner shape of the wooden spacers on the dual-quad setup. Just curious...
Richard. Excellent videos, however, do you have the correct trend up for the last test? It is labeled Final 557 the same as the BBF video.
It would be awesome to put boost on that thing and see what it really makes that would be cool keep up the good work that is good stuff still like to see Want a 283 Chevrolet would do boosted
what happens if you want to run an anti reversion plate with nitrous?
very cool!
Damm that was cool like them tunnel's look good on a 327'
yikes the tunnel ram is a beast ...looks like we are on the path of having a Big inch Small block test. It would be cool to see one tested the the exact same way curious to see what a Sbc would make with good stuff in it
Let’s see a junkyard vortec SBC build next.
Hey Richard do you have any data on tunnel rams for SBC? I am wanting to build a 383 race motor with 2x4 and don't know if I should go street tunnel ram(Edelbrock 7110 or tr1y) or a Victor ram? Thanks for all the great info as always
Would love to see a tunnel ram test. Different tunnel rams and see what’s best
My dads 68 Dodge dart with a 440 went from 11.30 to 10.24 when he switched to the tunnel ram. People hate on the T-ram but i like it
Blower, turbo, and Nitrous!
Awesome it brings back memories but now I’m waiting on the 4.7L dodge
Sweet engine!
Awesome video, as usual!
....but did I miss something? (I just woke up so maybe I'm just tired...lol)
I don't recall seeing nitrous plates installed on the tunnel ram?
I have a question for you Richard, I recently received a really nice custom carb which is a 950 cfm. So my question to you is can I jet it down to go in place of a 780 cfm?
Have you built World 400sbc with a 400 crank? Did you have cracks from the locators for the caps to the bearing register?
Had two from World with the same problem out of the box. All of the mains cracked! I hope they have fixed this.
Love it