LOW BUCK BBC HEAD TEST-PROMAXX VS AFR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- FULL DYNO RESULTS-340 PROMAXX VS 345 AFR-CHEAP VS BRAND NAME? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO COMPARING THE FULL CNC PROMAXX 340 BBC HEADS AGAINST THE AS-CAST AFR 345 HEADS. WE TESTED BOTH HEADS ON A 11.0:1 572 BBC STROKER EQUIPPED WITH A SOLID ROLLER CAM, MOROSO OILING SYSTEM AND SUPER VICRTOR INTAKE. BOTH HEADS PROMISED 800 HP AIRFLOW NUMBERS. WHO DELIVERS, AND AT WHAT PRICE?
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Just curious... why the thumbs down people? Who else is giving you all the info and data?! This is the best engine channel ever!
It might not be a person
There's always gotta be one!
Agreed . I truely don’t understand
Ford boys
@@albundy8052 hey I didn’t give it thumbs down lol but I’m a Mopar guy.
i paid around $850 for a set of Promaxx SBC cylinder heads. Were talking about 1400 plus for a set of AFR cylinder heads with the same specifications. For a inexpensive build and relatively close power numbers, promaxx heads are a great option. flow numbers are pretty close within 15-20 cfm at .500 lift . Cant beat promaxx heads for the price.
Thanks for the prices, u should of made this video since the other guy wouldn't give prices, thumbs up thank u
Rock and roll dude let him know there are other options out there don't destroy your pocketbook some of us live in the real world
@@rogerowens5669 that's no shit all my big block chevys are built on a budget I'm guilty for buying the cheapest parts and yea I've had a few problems with going with the cheapest parts but in the long run I've really had great success with the cheap parts. There's a guy in my home town that thinks you can't build a 800 to 1000 hp BBC without spending 20k and I've done it multiple times with gen 6 junkyard BBC and spending less than 4k and them being reliable and sorta cheap to fix if sum breaks
Back in the early 90's I bought a set of Dart 360's with bowl work done by them. Put them on a tall deck 540 with 11:1 compression and a little more cam. Couldn't come close to those numbers. It is amazing how far head development has come!
Thank you Richard!
Dart has some good stuff now-their 335s work very well and EM just did some stuff with their 360s I think
Got curious so I checked prices at summit. AFR: $2656. ProMAXX: $2545. So $100 more for a bunch more torque and made here. Easy choice, IMO.
No brainer!
THANK YOU Markus. I was very disappointed when he refused to give the prices at the end of this video, using the excuse: "different people want different components in their heads".........well no kidding, but the price of the heads BEFORE valves, springs, etc, are added, should still be listed here. Furthermore, a difference of only $100 is chicken feed for any pair of heads hovering just over $2500. For $100 more, and made in USA with those higher low to mid range flow numbers, why would anyone want to "save a lousy hundred bucks" for a Chinese casting, of all things. Big thumbs up & respect Markus.
@@howabouthetruth2157 The smart people will not give prices on a video because the video will be up for many years and prices change. It's to simple to just look it up on your own.
@@johnparrish9215 No, SMART people have enough sense to "A"......if they post the info, they simply state: "at the time of this post/publishing"..........or "B".......the viewer/buyer has enough sense to check that date. Both have been doing it for a very long time.
@@howabouthetruth2157 OK, now I have not seen it on the car channels but on the gun channels you will see reviews on guns that are 3 or more years old and below in the comments people bitching that the price was wrong that are only a month old.
Hell, anyone that is interested in something should be looking up the prices on their own anyway to look for a better deal and to see if specialized gear (Jessel) is required.
ProMaxx continues to be an excellent bridge between the high and low dollar cylinder heads. I continue to be impressed with them.
The set of A.F.R. cylinder heads on my basic small block chevy have been on there for 10 years. Never a problem.
This popped into my feed after watching Eric Weingartner go over the design differences of AFR, promax and a another couple Chinese heads. He talked a lot about the valves used in each head and how they affected low lift flow.
For street guys the promaxx are by far the choice - 25hp is a very expensive jump and im sure 95% of ppl will be slightly terrified already driving such a motor around that they/we/I wouldn't bother dropping the 2k+ for marginal gains - gr8 comparison though and thanks for the hard work again!
AFR all the way, for a couple hundred bucks, area under the curve and made in the USA!
@BW MadDog [retired] The casting comes from China. They are finished here. This was explained in the video.
Afr is made in us promaxx is off shore cast
I can’t speak for the Chevy stuff, but the as-cast Promaxx heads for sbf have the best area under the curve for a set of heads under $1300. They even out perform AFR enforcers. I graphed several heads in Excel. From Ebay to AFR. The Promaxx heads are about $900. More or less depending on spring package.
AFR puts in the time and research on port design to get the best area under the curve when you spend the money on their high end heads. They've made some budget models to compete with the lower end of the scale.
Richard, I am a 42 year old, respectable, relatively successful, middle aged family man. Why, when I hear this new music do I move around in my seat and hope that nobody notices? It makes me chuckle everytime I hear it. Nice choice.
That's why I do it-I'm dancing right there with you
I am looking @ the above dyno chart from the viewpoint of a heads up 1320 contest. From 4600 to 5400 rpm the AFR heads are running about a 25 ft pound average torque advantage! From 5400 to 6400 rpm the AFR heads are still dominating the Pro/Maxx heads but with diminishing returns in the all CRITACAL TORQUE, until the ProMaxx heads starts to increase torque over the AFR head just past 6500 rpm. Try to imagine two rigs in class racing leaving the line, like that 25 ft pounds of torque HAS GOT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE in getting out of the hole IF traction is equal between the two rigs. I would REALLY like to see the exhaust port flow numbers in these two brands of BBC heads, What are the angle of cuts & how many cuts are machined onto the valve seat inserts ESPECIALLY the exhaust valve insert? I mean those machined angles cut/ground onto the inserts alone can make the difference in low lift flow(up to 0.30 lift) for BOTH intake & exhaust.
In todays world it's the rapid evacuation of the spent gases in the combustion chambers that makes the difference in hp & torque, like the faster the exhaust is evacuated the stronger the pull on the incoming intake charge during valve overlap(free supercharger!). The headers look to me to be equal length or close & have 2.125" - 2.50" primaries plus about a 18.0" collector length(good). I would say that the extra torque the AFR heads are producing can ONLY be coming from a superior valve seat machining configuration. It would not surprise me one bit if the AFR heads come with a radiused cut coming OFF the valve seat cut & for that matter a radiused cut coming INTO the intake seat cut. Also the ProMaxx exhaust ports may be too large which would SLOW down the escaping exhaust gases which in turn would reduce the pull on the incoming atmospheric fuel charge during valve overlap. If you can check out the valve seat cuts/angles as well as the exhaust port size between these two brands of heads it would certainly be an interesting vid for sure regarding our community. Thanks so very much for sharing your experiences with our community!
Richard you have the best content. I watch all of your videos. Thank you
Hey Richard, Another great test!
How about a comparison between the AFR $800 budget as cast 325CC Enforcer head part # 3001 on a 496 compared to the AFR full CNC head?
one thing to keep in mind is that the ProMaxx head is CNC ported and the AFR head is as cast. for the price difference between these heads, I would go AFR. you can always have the CNC ported latter if you need it. not that there is anything wrong with the promaxx head, it just AFR has them beat in overall power below peak. unless you are running NASCAR super speedway engines or maybe something like the Silver State Classic/Pony Express 100, you are never running at peak power for a long durations, so the AFR would be the way to go. especially in a drag car than is shifting gears on its way down the track and is only a peak power for a short period of time. which in reality is what a 572 Big Block Chevy is made for.
Thank you for all the great info! Just put together a 11.5:1 496 BBC w/ BB2x heads and a Schneider 272/282 707/714 Solid Roller everything you post has been a great help Thank you again sir!!
Nice. Will you dynoing ?
How is your build going. That cam & head combo is gona pull to 8000 rpm. Love the Schneider cams
Did you dyno?
ive been using schneider cams 30 years dollar for dollar the very highest quality and productive grinds in the business
Thanks for all the info. Just retired and can FINALLY build my dream car. Learning what I want will all these test you’re doing. 👍👍
good luck
Richard was tired of everyone asking for the promaxx head comparison. I am guilty of asking too. Lol. THANKS RICHARD!!!!
And 295$ difference on these 2 particular heads set up for a mild 600 lift cam. Pretty impressive results if they were the as cast price not cnc shockers. But even at that they work well.
I bought a set of 200 maxx heads for my sbc. I took them to the shop and the ONLY adjustments they made were to the keepers to lessen spring pressure because of my cam size. Everything was bolt on ready out of the box. For what they are, they're a damn good head for the money. No point in putting money into old cast iron heads when you have these for an option.
Keep it up man! You are answering all the questions that forums have been asking for years and years and years
AFR heads have always been Magic. I'm looking at a set of their 285cc Bullitt heads for a Ford build, I don't think anything can touch them for the price/performance. The fact that it doesn't require Jessel valve rockers is a huge plus.
Go and talk to a guy like Curtis Boggs. He would slap you for using the word "magic". It's physics. He would be the first to tell you that it's not a black art, but rather something you have to be scientific about.
If you are looking for heads that can outperform AFR heads at the same price point, talk to Curtis @ Race Flow Development. He's the guy people go to once the novelty of AFR is wearing off a bit. His heads and an intake from Keith Wilson, and you will have most AFR guys wondering what the hell happened as they see you pull away.
Don't get me wrong, AFR heads are awesome heads, I run them still. But just keep in mind that they are not the only game in town. If Mamo was ever to call someone because he needed advice, it would be Boggs.
Kasse p51
Kaase sr71
Remember that a good hand porter can improve that CNC Pro Maxx head and help close that low lift gap. Order the PM head bare and have them built with bigger valves, hand porting, still cheaper. 😉
I really would like to see SBC version of this.. Promaxx vs. All.. I've heard great things from promaxx for the money and would love to know the facts..
Richard has done some of what you want, go look in the listings for all the videos and you will see.
Thnks mike, I've seen all the ebay/procomp comparisons to brodix ect. But there's not much out there about Promaxx SBC heads in general.. if you know of any send links my way please
I'm building a 408 sbc with the promaxx shocker right now
@@sixsec636 , I'm also putting together a 415ci ABC, and I've been considering the same head, if you finish it soon, I'd like to know how it performs..
@@kevinpurkey7331 you on Facebook
Thanks for the perfect demonstration of the benefits of "area under the curve".
I would like to see you do this same test with the sbc cnc promaxx head vs. Afr. Thanks
AFR heads come with the option of full CNC porting also. 20 years ago I was into SBF engines and the AFR heads really woke them up. I had a 64 fairlane with a 331 stroker that roasted the tires at will, and that was for $1,650.00 for full CNC porting when practically no one else offered it. AFR has always made great heads.
For the low budget street car engine I would definitely choose the ProMaxx head. If I were drag racing or going to use my engine to race I would choose the AFR or Brodix
Excellent test thank you for carrying out. Richard.
I’m about to build 582 with Mamosport 360cc Heads , solid roller 11.9 CR with Merlin X intake.
Yes more big block stuff 👍
HOW ABOUT testing with a 427 bbc?
Thanks for a great test and explanation Richard!! The AFR is the best head hands down!! That being said if you don't have the big money for them the Pro Maxx will work Great!!
Thanks for the low buck comparisons. Been curious about those cheap heads.
I’m going with the Promaxx 9175 $986 over the AFR 1492 $1715 for my SBF 5.0 Windsor. I took the time and made a spread sheet utilizing a lot of your math for all of the head manufacturers that gave flow numbers. The AFR’s have a better coefficient of discharge and cross flow ratios than the Promaxx. And you’re right, AFR’s have great low to mid range lift flow numbers. With my cam profile, I could expect a theoretical HP numbers of 514 hp with Promaxx and 552hp with AFR. Taking Horsepower TV number of expecting no more than 1.6 hp per cube on 93 octane. I figured I would need at least 350 cubes to capitalize on the AFR head. I don’t plan to punch and stroke my 302. So it boiled down to potential hp while taking my displacement into consideration and then cost.
Ps, when are you going to start doing some 7.3 powerstroke videos or diesels in general?
The area under the curve for that AFR head is a sweet deal. This setup is pretty darn good. There's three ways to go on this.
1: Different manifold in an attempt to inflate 5500-6600 RPM. Either head can do great. Cost effective choice.
2: Attempt to move the power shelf up and to the left for a less aggressive valvetrain package and a 6500 RPM rev limit. My first thought would be 1.3 points more compression and straight alcohol. 15 degrees less duration on the cam might help that particular option.
The 8 thumbs down came from Freiburger and company trolling the channel 😂
Great video and test thank you Richard. Just think of the results if you would have put a fully CNC ported AFR head such as a 335cc compared to the PROMAX 340 fully CNC'd ported head. It would have been a more fair test... Even so the AFR's as cast 345cc head still kicked the ass of the Promax fully cnc-ported 345 head except at the very top of the RPM range. I would have loved to see what the AFR cnc-ported 335cc head would have done against the 340cc ProMaxx. I believe it would have REALLY STOMPED the ProMaxx head.. just my 02
AFR really does their research 🤣
Their name says it all lol
So, these may be a little small for my engine- 632" bbc, .700" lift 272/282@ .050" 110* lsa hydraulic roller cam, 10.8:1 compression super victor and holley dominator sniper efi. BUT, the promaxx heada were $2360, and the afr were $2860. $500 for the HUGE average gains is a bargain!!!
Did you ever Dyno your motor? I'm building similar set up. 604ci brodix race rite 345s
@dinger4480 833hp @6100, 845tq@4300 on 91 octane @ 5000'. Lighter valvetrain would allow more rpm, but its a street motor. Ill stick with the heavy sainless valves and hydraulic rollers....
Right on it's all about the combination obviously AFR heads like this combination
I'd say the for the extra $100 per summit for my combo the AFR heads will br faster at the track in my car, I wouldn't rev my 540 out to where the pro max heads make an extra 8 horsepower, the low speed power and torque would have already made my car accelerate faster down the track.
Exactly.
How about a test between the AFR enforcer 185 and the ProMaxx 185 heads on a small block ford.
The 165 afr head on a 331 small block Ford Solid flat tappet pump gas motor is awesome it can make 500 no problem and that is about it with a factory block so why go bigger
I have promaxx 185's on my 406 full roller 11 to 1 compression. They make great power have about 15 k on them now. They are as cast no cnc. Cant complain. If AFR was that close in $ I would go with them probably.
Why not just tell us what the price difference was between these heads?
Without testing the heads on the same day the numbers come into question. We don't know temperature or humidity which both play a pretty significant role in power production. I'm a huge fan of AFR however you can't fully rely on the numbers given. Personally on a setup like this I would go with the AFR's but I'm not opposed the Promaxx either depending on what you are building. Yeah they get their castings from overseas but they are still employing Americans to turn those castings into quality heads. I'd buy from them versus the company who is having everything done overseas 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
Richard - I hate to be a pester - but before the end of this series with the 572 could you PLEASE see how much power you can get out of a hydraulic roller VS solid? I am willing to lose some power to go back to hydraulic due to maintenance/destruction issues - just looking to lose as LITTLE power as possible in the transition backwards on the power scale. I need a little cushion for the pushin in valvetrain tolerance. THANK YOU!
I think Steve at WESTECH or EM did that
Big Bang 454.....🙏
Let’s be honest, if you can afford a BBC like this you can afford the AFR’s. Now if I was building anything from a 454 to a budget 496, I wouldn’t hesitate to go with some ProMaxx heads.
Thing is that if you run them on a 454 to 496 cheap deal, then you don't run a big solid roller either. The Pro would be more than enough and the difference would be smaller.
In such a case with a little bbc, there might only be 6-8 numbers separating them at best. In that case, the Pro is still not really the best head. Get something like Edelbrock Oval CNC heads instead lol. Cheap heads like these are always so odd, because there's usually a better way no matter what you do.
I think these are for the few that does low buck hydraulic roller big cube stuff. These will do well with a Blueprint 572 or 598 shortblock. That is a segment where cheap stuff like the Pro heads can be a good idea. A set of AFR 345 heads would be half the cost of the shortblock, and for many that's a bit off-putting.
At the end of the day it's all about what you want. Many street/strip 550+ ci deals would benefit from running full CNC heads. Add a bit more over the 345 and get either the 335 or 357 depending on your needs. Both will outperform the 345.
@@AB-80X
If I had to choose between the two brands and money wasn’t an issue, I’d go AFR all day. Pro Maxx was just what he happened to use in this comparison, they wouldn’t be my first choice for a budget application either, but like I said I wouldn’t not run them on a mild pump gas build either if money was tight, I’m sure they’d work well enough to have fun on the street where the combination doesn’t need to be absolutely ideal...
@@shitbox7413 I know it was about what he had on hand, that's not really the thing.
My thought was just, as you also say, even on a budget build, there are other options, which are probably better. My point was just that more often than not, some of these oddball cheap heads can always be substistuted by something better at a similar price. That's why I mentioned the Edelbrock E-CNC 325's. Why pay 2800 usd for the Promaxx 340 Shockers when the Edelbrocks are 325 CNC Ovals that outperform them for 1900 usd you know? I just have a hard time seeing where they actually fit in. To me, and this is also something Holdener mentions, it's about Promaxx selling these heads as being better than they are. They claim to flow X, but don't and this proves it. The E-CNC is one of the best performing heads in the lower 300 cc range, and run with most "cheap" 350+ cc heads.
@@AB-80X
Personally I wouldn’t use any of the heads you mentioned on a pump gas street build, I’d be using a sub 300 cc oval port, the AFR magnums are ideal but man are they expensive.
@@shitbox7413 That's a personal thing. I have found that the E-CNC run really well on say a 496 with a 244/252, .600", 110 cam. I've tried the AFR ovals and they are nice heads, but I have found the E-CNC which by the way is also an oval port head to create a better peak spread. With the right combo we are talking 610+ hp that makes peak torque at 3800-3900 rpm with peak hp over 2000 rpm higher. That's a very good running deal.
Are there other heads? Sure, it just depends on the situation.
I put the AFR 300 Ovals on a friends build as he was very interested in giving them a try. They are probably the highest flowing 300cc heads out there, but we found that they have issues going supersonic. The turbulence in the runner was a big issue, and on the flow bench they are probably the loudest heads I've ever heard. AFR ended up taking them back and sending out a set of 315's and we picked up over 35 numbers.
The Edelbrock E-CNC ovals with the matching intake on a small BBC has just proven to be a very good combo that is hard to beat.
I'm not brand biased, I'm just interested in what works the best. I like TFS for 440 Mopars etc. and I want other things for other purposes. I respect AFR for what they do, but they are not the end all of heads. I just finished a 582 build and I chose to have a set ProFiler 24 XL heads finished by Curtis Boggs from RDF and I can say for sure they will outperform any Brodix or Dart 20 degree head, despite being 24 degree heads, and the AFR 385 wouldn't stand a chance. Flow is important, but so much more goes into a good head, and that also goes for AFR, and their 300 cc Oval is a prime example. I would actually run the AFR 290 before I ran the 300cc based on my personal experience, and I have found the Edelbrock E-CNC ovals to outperform them both.
I did not expect Pro Maxx to do that well, I understand pro maxx will port your heads for a cost if you send in your as cast heads later if you need more power, I would just do that first, I do like the low and mid range power they had.
I enjoyed the video. The author does do a lot - lot - lot of disclaimers. He then draws strong conclusions. I believe that all he can really say though is for this particular cam, this particular engine bore/stroke, this particular intake and headers that the AFR was a better head in the lower RPM ranges. I would love to see more testing, say a hotter cam, better intake and higher RPMs what the difference would be. I would also be curious about less maxed out engine displacements. I myself am not running near this much engine, but if I were to do a strip only configuration, I might consider this if naturally aspired was what I was after. In a 1/4 mile scenario, the RPM range would be at the high end, but low end torque is important until the vehicle gets going if you can keep the wheels firmly planted. Certainly it sounds like the AFR heads are better for street use.
I bought a set of the pro max cnc they actually measured 352 cc intake runner peak flow was around 430 at 800 lift but were alittle low in the. Mid range. I bought mine mine at a bargain gave 900 for a pair of new bare cnc casting. I believe if I had to pay retail I'd go with afr . They would be considerably better with alittle port work. Just saying
Rod journals, look like glass! NICE!
When will you be doing a test with the Promaxx 4.6 Shocker head ?
Richard I recently purchased this exact same camshaft. I’m curious did you install it straight up or advanced. ? Thank you in advance. No pun intended.
straight up
@@richardholdener1727 thank you for replying Richard. I have 582 with Tony Mammo modified 357 AFR’s and I want to try the camshaft used here on the dyno. 11.9 compression pump gas.
You been around the block Richard I was just checking out some of your Speedmaster videos👍 people need to give you a little more credit then they do
Thanks for the video Richard. I'm enjoying your channel keep up the good work‼
Thanks 👍
1.29 foot pounds per cubic inch. She's breathing well. It doesn't get much better than that. Badass.
I'd like to see the promaxx heads vs. Trick flow heads on a small block Ford
The AFRs to me with the bigger power spread are the best. Though for a drag racer maybe the peak power is an advantage.
Always a ton of interesting data and equipment combinations; great channel.
Does "Offshore" = China/Chinesium?
Richard - I agree.......lets see a Promaxx head comparison for a SBC......whatever you have available 350/377/383/400.
There is a ton of interest in budget SBC heads but it always comes down to crummy heads like procomp (at least the old ones) and super trick heads like AFR.
I really want to see a no BS comparison for the Promaxx SBC heads.......maybe even do their as cast head and then a CNC ported one and comparing them to AFR 195 (the gold standard it seems for street toy guys).
Thanks.
@ron Kay Sure but that is like saying a $10k 598 will kick ass on a $3k 383. I still think the Promaxx vs AFR (or Dart or Brodix or whatever) head would be a great illustration. I am not expecting the Promaxx to be the top performer......I just want to see the comparison and what one is giving up by going with the Promaxx. Myself and friends have thrown together great SBCs on a pretty thin budget for vehicles from 4x4 trucks to 11sec street cars and feel the Promaxx are one of the best "offshore" options for less than $1k......we just want to see the actual test to confirm our assumptions.
In all fairness, I can gather the same info in a Promaxx VS Procomp/Speedmaster comparison. Thanks to Richard, we already know the difference in AFR (I believe) and the Procomp/Speedmaster.
Air Velocity plays a part.
I was surprised to see that power crossover happen. Really surprised it happened at the top. I'd be interested to know the minimum cross section area of these heads. My hunch from the dyno graph says the promaxx has a larger minimum cross section. If my hunch is right this is a very good example of the benefits from good port design.
AFR is the way, thank you!
Went with cnc promax ,shafts rockers ,stage 2 mechanical Elgin ,laser drilled lifters gear drive. Composition dist gear , long headers , h-pipe , purple hornies, Avs 2 800 cfm , or the tunnel ram I have already , 550hp here I come
This is a great test but just imagine if the AFR heads were fully CNC'd like they normally come. I believe they would have destroyed the Promaxx heads.
The CNC version of the 345 AFR’s is the 357CC heads , yes they would maul the pro max heads. Take nothing away from PM heads. They did very well here.
@@michaelparadisis4076 I have them the flow 425 cfm plus
Richard please do the big bang test on the 3800 series II block. I plan on running this block stock with a turbo charger here soon. I want to know how much power it can support with destroying the stock internals.
I AM
Richard Holdener thank you. I have everything I need to know about the LS engines, now we get some exposure on one of the best pushrod v6s ever made. Maybe people will start to use these blocks more. $150 for either a superchargred or naturally aspirated.
The aft must have better velocity or maybe just the ad cast mixes the fuel better since the intakes aren’t as smooth as the Cnc milled ones
Should really compare the AFR'S to a set from Pro-Filer! Then you'll see what's up. Yes that's not comparing a low buck to big buck as this test was, but you'll see if the AFR's are all that. I always see people compare the AFR's to either cheap heads, or to a Dart or something, whether small or bigblock, but no one ever seems to throw in a set of Pro-Filer's. Pro-Filer has been doing the bbc stuff for a long time and have recently threw their hat into the small block stuff, would really like to see how they stack up! As cast from both AFR and Pro-Filer and cnc'd from both. However that would be some very expensive testing no doubt!
I would love to see a comparison of the Skip White bravo 335 head against the afr 325 as cast heads for the bbc. A 496 would be a great candidate at around 11.1 compression. 4150 style 950 carb. Maybe a .680 solid roller. 112 lsa. I havent seen anyone using those bravo heads yet. Just curious how well they work as a comparison to the name brand stuff. They are not the super junk pro comps but they arent afr heads either.
that extra power in the mid range will help spool up turbos.
I would be curious about the quality of the components used in each when comparison of the price.
In terms of heads if I was ever making an 850HP BBC that 20 extra hp average would be the winner vs 7 peak HP. No contest.
Have you ever dynoed a Mercury Racing HP 500/502 cid and what your thoughts are on there choice of intake which is Dart single plane. These only run 5200 or so and seem like there should be a better choice.
Dual Plane might be a better choice
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the info, if I were to go to 540 inch would dual plane still be a good choice
AFR FTW DAMMIT 💪🏽
856👍's up thanks again for taking us all along with you for the rest of the story 😊
Made in America has always comes first
Do the test with a CNC set of AFR heads and see where the price goes. Up just like the power,. At least Promaxx for a budget head does pretty good for the money.
AFR magnum 315 for $3492.00 vs Promaxx 317 cast for 1900.00 Now the flow numbers are both advertised, both are very close to each other but Richard; run these on a 496. I doubt the Promaxx could keep up at the low lift. But nothing comes close at $1900, that is a great price.
afr 345 was listed at $2656 from Summit-not sure why you bring up two heads I didn't test
Richard Holdener You said the option it out the way you would use it for your own set up right? I don’t have a 572, I have a 496. I wouldn’t buy a huge 340cc head. I took the time to search and reply. Why the downer?
you're the man Richard
AFR and yes more bbc stuff!
What is the spring pressure on the Chinese head and what were the Figures on YOUR flow bench not theres. What are the components used in the chinese heads.
Is it possible to slow the video down a little? I have to pause and rewind all the time to see the pictures and listen to what you're saying. It's possible I am just slow but things flash past quite fast. Cheers.
Your computer has a 0.75 speed, 0.50 speed.
I think the video is 1.25.
I've read that all AFR heads are CNC machine ported, and that's what makes them produce better flow #'s, and power. If the ProMAXX heads are ported, would they perform as well, and at a cheaper cost than the AFR's?
the promaxx heads were ported
I'm all in for buying domestic parts. That being said, I recently bout a set of aluminum small block Ford heads. Good friend of mine called me to come look at a set of aluminum small block Ford heads. Looked them over, 2.02, 1.6 valves. I am planning a Windsor build for the 94 flairside my dad left me. Looked great!! What's he need for them, I'll put it on the grapevine. His reply was I don't know man, there complete, could bolt them on as is, think $400 is a fair price? My response was " there's an ATM in this little town?? Needless to say, their in my barn waiting for installation!!! The old f150 weighs round 4000 lbs, but how much does a late model Mustang weigh?
Rich, back in the day there was ALWAYS much discussion of the OVAL vs Rect. port heads and i do see people still running oval heads on high HP engines, do the rect. heads make more power than oval in all applications of just in something like a 572 which everyone doesnt have the $$$$ to build
Good head porter and flow bench!priceless!!
The way the power curve flattered out so early on the afternoon head is odd. Makes me wonder if you were was a tuning issue.
I think it might be a restriction in both the heads and intake. Looking at the numbers, that combo would run very nicely with the fully CNC ported 357's and a Wilson ported Super Vic. I wouldn't be shocked if that combo made peak power at 7100 and over 870 hp.
The power curve on the AFR test looks weird to me. Why did the torque curve have a kink in it that bent it down and hurt peak power? It's only 8 hp at the top end, so you'd never notice it, but that midrange power advantage would be noticeable.
I'll buy the afr if I'm going to optimize the convertor or have the suspension or tire to put down the additional power it makes lower in the rpm band
The ProMaxx heads were actually like $100 more than the AFR heads lol. Both 50% CNC ported, solid roller springs to support up to .900 lift. (My cam is .567/.578 currently but Im ordering a custom grind with much more lift. Advertised 278/284 @ 110 LSA)
Promaxx heads bare are 600 bucks cheaper. They might be more assembled, compared to the bare AFR's though. But if you use the same parts in them, the only difference is the cost of the casting, and Promaxx is cheaper there.
Richard, do you think if you changed the LSA on the cam,say to 107-110 LSA, for the promaxX Heads it would it would shift that curve to match the the afr curve? My Question is based off the episode of engine masters comparing the LSA of camshafts with same lift and duration specs.
changing the cam specs would effect both heads
I get that. But I was just referring to just changing the cam specs for the promaxx heads which would in turn move the horsepower and torque curves to match the afr's being that they are different heads. so each had has its own characteristics and may like one Cam vs another cam better.
AFR life time warranty on heads, 2 years on springs, valves, retainers locks. Who else does this? NOBODY!!! I have owned 3 sets and looking to buy my 2nd set of 345 cc heads. 496 blown 871 on E85. 👌
AFR all the way. I have a set of 290’s on my 496 and that is one of the most impressive engine I have built
HP? ET?
??
Thank you Richard
the pro max chrysler max wedge heads are insane especially on a smaller 383 !
Which one will last ? I remember hearing cheap heads can have issues ?
Rich is it true that a simple back cut on the valve would have pushed the {ProMexx right up with AFR ???
no
Richard - once again YOU DA MAN...Thumbs downers are HOnda or LS guys...with envy problems... I happen to have a pump gas Shafiroff low deck 582 with Brodix BB3Extra 345 heads so you are definitely talking my language on this one. Thank you SO much for remembering us dinosaurs and for all the great info. I happen to be looking for a new cam choice, so this hit the spot even more.
i think its the air speed with the afr heads. faster moving air helps make more power
I'm ready for more Honda testing
Do you consider the 400 Ford a big block or a small block? Or is it just the other guys block?!
MID
God i would love to see that test with the AFR 315 or 335 CNC.
You are amazing, I love the content ❤️
Still trying to get my head around why you keep doing dyno pulls not over same rpm sweep and keep leaving the question of 'would it have made more or same peak power if had run it a bit higher' like other one ?