One really great reason to pick a 223 over 6.5 for target shooting is you need much shorter ranges to get the same effects on its bullets. Most people don’t have long ranges accessible to them, and it’s a lot easier to learn wind drift and bullet drop when you can shoot regularly on shorter ranges with smaller calibers. 22LR would be even better. Not to mention cost of ammunition.
Your so right about the small bullets . I’ve killed deer with 204 32 grain . It don’t exit . But if put right where it needs to be , it will destroy the lungs or heart . Nast little bullet .
I lived on 12 acres for a few years and there was an old Buck there that hung out with his doe and fawns all year round, every year. So not all bucks are typical. 10:58
The .223 is adequate for the whitetails in Florida. Here many does are in the 90--100 pound range, and quite a few bucks weighing less than 150 pounds fall each year.
Choose a 30-06 and use it for everything. You'll get very proficient and shells are readily available everywhere including gas stations in small towns.
I agree with the caliber, but it’s not 1974 anymore. None of the gas stations in the small towns of my county here in Colorado stock rifle ammunition. We have one small gun store and a Bomgaars in the county seat that carries ammo. Last time I looked, you’d be in luck if you need .308 or 6.5 Creedmore. In the county to the west, there is only one town with a Big R store that stocks ammo, and you can sometimes find 30-06 and occasionally .243 there. The romance of days gone by are nice, but the reality is ammunition really can’t be found everywhere. If all the gas stations and hardware stores where you live stock shelves and shelves of 30-06, that’s wonderful and I’m happy for you. But in the west, we aren’t so lucky
I think the 3006 is great, but when it comes to sheer enjoyment, but also coupled with serious capability for hunting and seems like that’s a great all-around winning chambering
A much more on target question would be why buy a .223 over a 224 valkyrie or 22 Nosler? I shoot the first 2 so I can comment on that, and although the 224 is superior in almost every way there is still many reasons for choosing the 223 mainly cost, availability and no real advantage under say 600 yards if your shooting the lower weight bullets. But I would say there is no reason to buy a 223 or 556 over a 223 Wylde though but that's more a MSR barrel question rather then a caliber question as the wild just allows you to shoot both 223 and 556 safely and accurately.
I take several whitetail a year here in Texas with my ar using 62g speer gold dot bonded soft points. So far I've never needed a second shot and heart and lungs are destroyed. I hand load those but used to use the federal msr 62g bonded soft points because they're available as a factory load but not for reloading. Bullet design matters. I also rarely have to shoot out to 75 yards and most are 50 yards and in but I've gone out to just over 100 yards with no issues. Not sure I'd go much further with that round but that's just me since the bullistics for that round are good for far more than that.
31 minutes in, question about Axis II and rust. Ron you mentioned some things about barrels and coatings and Cerekote, and how it's not inside the bore. But, the modern day equivalent to "blueing" is Nitride coatings or QPQ or Salt bath nitride or whatever name some company uses(trademarks being a thing and all), it's all the same, and it is a chemical conversion surface treatment that is commonly used on both chrome moly/chrome moly vanadium, and stainless barrels alike. It is a wonderful thing that adds several valuable properties to gun steel, particularly barrels, but receivers and parts as well. First it prevents rust, and it's darned effective at it. Secondly it adds a surface hardness and heat treat effect to the steel that can help barrels to maintain their best accuracy longer by resisting the heat cracks that lead to "barrel burnout" in the throats longer than bare steel, and it does this without adding any thickness that's has tolerances, ie: chrome lined barrels, so it doesn't affect the accuracy potential the way some chrome lined barrels do, such as military rifles. Many many barrel manufacturers and gun makers have embraced this over the last couple decades and it's a proven concept with industry wide acceptance. You probably have more than 1 rifle in your collection with a nitrided barrel whether you know it or not, same goes for many of your listeners. It's jet black and just a little glossy, or tends to be, but can be relatively matte as well. I've even been told by a custom shop around where I live that I was having do some Cerekote work for me, that people in the competition world will sometimes buy a quality chrome-lined barrel and shoot it till they find it to be " broken-in" to it's best accuracy and then send the barrel out to be nitride coated to lock in that accuracy! Can't confirm that of course, but hey if you're deep enough into that works to know your barrel smiths and they know the guys their sending their barrels to for treatment, than I suppose it's only a phone call and a fee away perhaps.
Well, creedmore is a long action in AR 10 length, not short action AR 15. Better comparison would be 6.5 Grendel, both blow .223 away performance wise, but Grendel is short action.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV Because he's correct? He's not talking about bolt actions, he's talking about AR platforms and as that's where both of these started it's quite appropriate.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV long or short action is determined by cartridge length, not whether it’s a semi or bolt gun. I’m sorry your 5,000$ ar10 didn’t explain that to you when you bought it. My ar cost me 800$ to build from bare receivers, first one I’ve owned and built and it’s taught me a lot, maybe next time build an ar10 and you’ll gain some more knowledge. School of the American rifle is great resource to reference. Try not to be such an ignoramus at your next interaction with humans.
I always avoided leaving fawns alone by shooting mom and then the fawn(s), because they normally circle around. They are the best tasting deer hands down.
Very interesting rule of thumb on the relative exit pupil:eye pupil diameter as a function of time of day. I'll carry that with me as a simple way to help decide what to do in low light. - e.g. drop the magnification level!
At 31:11 you mentioned that the barrel might have not had Wax or Oil on it to cause rusting, this is the first that I have heard anything about putting Wax on a Barrel, are you talking about putting Car Wax or what type of Wax on the Barrel and how about Waxing the whole Gun, please elaborate more on Waxing a Firearm vs Oiling a Firearm. Thanks in advance.
Interesting comment about critters eating lead particles at 6:40. Wondering where you got such a notion? In California, they banned lead ammo for hunting based on this assumption, and a couple of incomplete studies. Later it was determined that CA condors lead poisoning was not from lead bullets found in carrion, but from lead paint on buildings. Nevertheless, lead bullets remain banned for hunting in CA.
You could try the 25/45 sharps or the 277 wolverine both spawned off the 223 Remington,I'm not sure if the people that came up with the wolverine are still loading it or not might be a great idea to bring it back to life
Here’s one I rarely hear about but. The .240 Weatherby. It got my attention when I was a kid growing up. How about that one? What are/were the bullets on that one. I doubt if recoil was a factor?
While I have taken a few deer with 223 I am a 444 Marlin or 338-06, or 30-06 guy. I built a 224 Valkyrie AR for coyotes and just happen to use it for deer last year. I believe it was a 65gr bullet and high shoulder hit. Deer fell straight down. Totally not what I expected. Seems to have the same affect on coyotes. L O L.
Question- why do you think that we have new rifle cartridges coming out all the time but no new shotgun cartridges. The same arguments in my opinion can be had about not needing new of both. Manufacturers could be trying to make a better mouse trap in this world as well. Just curious thanks.
Hey Ron hope you well,to use myself as a example to answer the gentleman's question.I own a 223 Rem 24 inch ,as well as 6.5x55 swede and my big boy 303 British.S basically variety is the spice of life lol with these 3 calibers I can hunt anything from geese/rabbits to Cape buffalo yes In South Africa we do crazy things like that,on top of that if one rifle malfunction in a hunt, I have another as backup and lastly I like that both the 6.5 swede and the 303 doesn't cause as much meat damage compared to high velocity rounds
I agree on the fact that many of us are just tired of hearing everyone go on and on about the 6.5 Creedmoor. Ill just stick with .308 The cartridge I'm excited about is the .277 Fury or 6.8X51 and the new 8.6 Blackout is very interesting. Q The company that makes the 8.6 has a rifle called the FIX and it only has an 8" barrel. Perfect for AR pistols and Short Barreled Rifles. The guy that developed it uses it to shoot cape Buffalo. It also has significant advantages in Armor penetration. Just like the .300 blk out it comes in sub-sonic and supersonic. Which means when used with a suppressor out of a 8" barrel you get an extremely capable platform for Close Quarters Combat, Room clearing etc. Plus it would be devastating on animals.
I have a good answer for guy’s choosing scopes ,,the light transmission on a six hundred dollar leopold is 91 percent,,,the light transmission on a bushnell banner 110 dollars is 91 percent,,,however the more expensive scope it is easy to see why they cost more ,,,much better picture
The only thing I would add to " Why shoot anything that looks sickly?" I would to prevent suffering or prevent spread of a disease. But I wouldn't eat it, it's more of an ethnic question with me.
I recently shot a Kudu with rabies. Beautiful bull, but the Rabies had already become noticeable. My family wouldn't touch the meat with a 10ft pole, but our staff on the farm really wanted it. We ended up discarding the parts affected by rabies (head, throat, lungs. Can't remember what else) and they took the meat.
It is the more ethical thing to do to shoot a sickley animal. More so if they’ve got cwd or rabbies. In germany they call that ‘hegeabschuss’ and will be praised just as much as shooting a trophy roe buck
Ron. Question for you sir. If using a . 243 for varmint hunting and not concerned about damage to fur. Would you use the smaller 55 grain bullets or bigger bullets shooting longer ranges such as 300 all the way out to 500 yards maybe? Even on things such as ground hogs, crows, etc. ? Like the idea of a flat shooting fast bullet, but for long range wouldn't the bigger 75 grain or 80 grain bullets be better..? Thanks in advance Regards from South Central Indiana. USA Tim.
I have found that with copper bullets is that at extended ranges they do not expand reliable . I was shooting them out of a 300 Win Mag. 165 grain at 3240 fps over my Chronograph, And at 400 yards they did not expand past the base diameter on Elk. I stopped using them, They work very well as long as the velocity upon impact is relatively high but as they slow they shoot more like a solid slug. Just my experience though.
Depends on use. 556 is cheaper and has more available bullet ranges from factory ammo for different use. Good for small game. Emergency gun. IMO, it’s hard to find lighter 6.5 bullets in factory loads.
Barns TTX 150gr in my 303British is a good deer round but for my 30-06,308,30-30 and 6.5creed im shooting lead only not a fan of copper bullets unless its the barns TTX for my 303British not many options for that gun even for reloading
I think Shane the truck drive is looking for the 450 Bushmaster (1.7" and different parent case of 284win). The 475 linebaugh is trimmed to 1.4". So assuming hes running a rifle, there ya go.
My daughter is ten and is a wisp of a thing. She has difficulty with rifle weight and recoil. Im trying to find a monolithic lead free bullet that would get enough penetration in 223. If you know of one please let me know. I live in CA and lead bullets are out for deer.
Sorry I can’t help you with a copper bullet type for a 223 or 5.56. But I can tell you where I live here in this area a 223 is against the law (illegal, not legal) to hunt deer with it, I know this for a 100% fact. In your area the laws might be different.
70gr TSX under a 5.56mm load out of a 16.5" barrel suppressed has taken boar, deer, yotes and everything in between... I dont understand the Needmore when you have .243win in any action you could dream of with loads that out perform needmores all day...
Personally, I'm not taking a 6.5 creed hunting for anything (unless that's all there is and I'm hungry). The .223 has sooo many possibilities... to a limit.
I have both , and wouldn't dream of using the .223 for hunting anything other than coyotes , but I also live in a land of giant whitetails , I have harvested bucks 328#on the hoof
I wouldn't choose a 6.5 creedmore for anything. Too expensive ammo and I'm just not that impressed with it. The 223 is an awesome round but it does have its limits. However if it'll kill a 300lb person it'll kill a 300lb animal. It's all about shot placement.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV ~ ~Here is backing it up showing I am right:: ”Case capacity” in grains of water:: 6.5 Creedmore is 52.5 grains. 223 Remington is 31.4 grains. The 6.5 Creedmore has 21.1 more grains ‘or’ 40.2% percent more case capacity. ~Smallest bullet for the 6.5 Creedmore is 95 grains, 3300 feet per second, 2297 muzzle energy. ~Largest bullet for the 223 Remington is 75 grains, 2790 feet per second, 1296 muzzle energy. ~ >>This data above clearly shows that the 6.5 Creedmore is far superior and much better than the 223 Remington. This is a physical fact and beyond dispute.
I don't hate 6.5 creedmore , but . 223 is a great cartridge and great for hunting like here in Southern Indiana where it's crowded. It's quiet compared to the 6.5, it's good for about 300 plus yards, and it's inexpensive.
Thanks Ron,for expressing my anger to the gun writers who say things as,long range target shooters miss 30-40% more(the target) than 6.5 cr, did they hear of camp Perry? Or I'm a guide, all my elk are taken over 600 yards me and all my hunters use 65cr!
Not a fan of ceracoat as it does nothing to protect the inside of the barrel that is the important part. Definitely get the stainless for a hunting rifle that will be carried in wet weather.
Question I have a sako 85 I try many different ammo and shoots the best with Federal law enforcement ammunition I wonder if you can use that for deer hunting thanks
We are talking about a miserable little cartridge versa a slightly less miserable little cartridge. They are only good for varmints and a 22/250 takes care of that.
Hey ron you mustve never worked in a pizza shop! Area of a circle is a: pi r^2 So a 44mm bell at 10x has an exit pupil of 6.66mm and a 50mm bell at 10x has an exit pupil of 7.9mm. If your pupil swells to 7mm. Then…
Great podcast, as usual. Question, though: near the end of the last question regarding monos v ELD-X, you mention that impact velocity of the monos have to be high enough to initiate adequate expansion (my words, not yours, but your idea). That being said, what about their use in certain cartridges that don't have a high muzzle velocities to begin with, e.g., 7x57 or 6.5x57, 6.5x54, etc.? While Barnes indicates expansion down to about 1800 fps, other manufactures have higher minimum thresholds, and that could potentially shrink effective ranges. What are your thoughts? Thanks, as always.
Why does no one put the 220 swift against these calibers and why haven’t hornady or another bullet maker done some all copper or heavier bullets for the 220 swift
Here in Belgium, and I suspect neighbouring countries of Germany and France, doe season always coincides with calf season. It is deemed unethical to shoot the doe before the calf. When encoutering family groups, be it deer or wild boar, you always target the young ones first.
…I would like to add that the 223 was very popular in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s for driven roe deer nothing bigger….believe we used 3,4gram bullet. As the variety of game (from roe/fallow/red dear and wild boar) on a driven shoot is so different in size we use a cartridge that will cover all !!
This is like a comparison between 243 and 300 Winchester magnum.... as an aside the absolute only reason to get a 223 is you own an AR15, and I still prefer to defend against two legged critters with something more powerful.
I totally believe for a big game rifle a stainless barrel is a extremely good option because you want to carry your rifle with a fouled barrel because most rifles can throw the first shot out of the group ( fouler) a protective coating like ceracoat protects the unimportant outside of the barrel and does nothing for the inside, the important part?? For a target rifle or one that will only be used in dry conditions stainless is not important.
If someone doesn't hate your cartridge, you have the wrong cartridge. Popularity will always bring condemnation. Stick with what you know And go with it If the added feels right and it shoots right you got yourself a good cartridge Pair that with a good rifle and you will be stacking game for days
The 6.5 is the metric designation for cartridges that shoot .264" dimater bullets. The first 6.5mm was the 6.5x55 "Swede" harking back to 1892. Many other countries had 6.5s including Italy, Japan, Germany, Austria, France, Portugal, and Denmark. The first 6.5mm in the USA was the .256 Newton. The most famous is the 264 Win Mag. There is also 6.5 Rem Mag., 260 Rem., 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-284 Norma, 26 Nosler, 6.5 RPM, 6.5-300 Wby Mag., 6.5-06, and even a 6.5x47 Lapua. The hype is due to low recoil plus long, high B.C. bullets that are extremely efficient, minimizing wind deflection and relatively low recoil for easy shooting. Sorry you've missed them.
The 130 grain bullet should be the heaviest one should use in the 6.5 Creedmoor. The gas tank is really too small for the heavier ones, the huge loss of energy at longer ranges is the problem and 130 grain is good all the way out to 500yds the heavier 140s even with the higher coef do not have since they start out very slow and can't gain because of that reason hence the PRC with the bigger gas tank and the 223 is not in a league even close to that of 6.5 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor after all its a 308 necked down to the smaller diameter, I had to learn these things the hard way and now I know the rest of the story. Aim small, good hunting, GOD bless.
I have a question more than a comment. I have heard people say a 6.5 creadmoore travels fast enough an animal doesnt know its hit. Would this be a bullet proformance problem? Or is it possible to be too close and the bullet just not open up. Also i hope your feeling well Ron. Your voice sounds a little off in the past couple of videos. Your content is great and i look forward to the next one.
6.5 Creedmore is just another 3000fps cartridge like many others. It has a good selection of bullet weights and construction available and terminally performs similarly to 308win until you push out there in ranges, but does a better job in wind due to typically better ballistic coefficient. You can't be too close for bullet expansion, the higher the velocity the more rapid expansion will be, given an identical bullet.
Between the two, hand me the 6.5 Creedmoor, the Creedmoor brings more to the table, and there are states where a caliber restriction of .25caliber or larger is required for hunting whitetail deer!, .223 isn't a legal option, always check you DNR regs, that
Smaller the recoil and lighter the rifle higher the hit propability...ruger american ranch in 223 is a whitetail killer I'm arkansas.. great for kids women beginners...for me in brush. Higher the caliber heavier the bullet... more forgiving on shot placement... It depends... these subjects will always depend on the shooters cognitive ability to get involved... I m stupid
Your breed of hunter seems to care more about guns then hunting. To me the gun i have is an after thought. Adapt and survive is part of whats fun about hunting. You can snipe targets at the range. You dont have to get dirty and the targets know your there just as much as the deer that u hunt do...
At 22:50 you talk a little about eye dominance. While rare, there are some of us who do not have a dominant eye, and it might be good to talk about that a little. The Range Monkey on the Active Self Protection Extra channel has this issue. I know that when I look down a pistol with iron sights and both eyes open, I see two rear sights and two front sights (insert Doc Holiday joke). The problem is that my rear sights are much farther apart than the front; the front are almost touching. If my paper is at the common distance of 7 yards, I see one target and it appears as though my double-vision guns will shoot to the left and right of my target respectively. If “both” guns are aligned this way, I will probably get a center hit. If I align either gun at the target according to the sights, it will be a miss to the side.
Hi dude, what you are describing is parallax error in a nutshell. Aligning either the whole picture from either the right or left eye should see a hit, as would taking an average of both. The issue with no dominance is that it's slower to identify which version of the rear and front sight should be used. This can be sped up by repetition, closing alternate eyes when you have bought the pistol to bear, until you know exactly which sight picture belongs to which eye, presentatiion after presentation. You may see benefit in using a modified isosceles rather than strict, favouring the eye on the strong hand side, though it all gets messy on transitions. Red dots and other single point sighting systems ameliorate this and you may find it easier to adopt one than put in the reps on open sights. They have improved a lot at the cheaper end (e.g Holosun) to the point that outside of beating it with a hammer, they just need a battery replacement as part of scheduled maintenance (every 6 months for example).
I HAVE A ROSSI 44 MAG. WITH A 24" BARREL AND SHOOT BUFFALO BORE 340 GRAIN HARD CAST +P+ WHICH PER HORNADY'S CALCULATOR COULD KILL AT 500 YDS. NOT SO FAST, PBR IS REALLY 210 YDS.( SIGHTED AT 175 YDS)TRAJECTORY MAKES 300 YDS A REAL CHALLENGE. FORTUNATE FOR ME, MY UNIT RARELY REQUIRES SHOTS BEYOND 75 YDS!
You know I kinda laugh at the 8.6 Black Out. Those guys could pick up a $50 Mauser 98 in 8x57 and put down hogs and anything else with cheap PPU 196gr. Soft Point 8x57 Mauser. No expensive brass, no expensive monolythic bullet, no need for AR10$$, No need for expensive hard to find super fast twist barrel etc.... They could also use 338-06, 338 Federal, 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester. Even in the AR10 the 358 Winchester adn 338 Federal are options and you would have much easier time finding ammo and getting a decent price on them. I have not used the new 8.6 Black Out but in my book it seems like it is mostly novelty. Some times the juice is not wortht he squeeze! It is not diffacult to put down ferrel hogs.
I understand that the belt on a magnum cartridge is there for headspace, just like a rimmed cartridge. My question is that, if a rimmed cartridge isn’t preferred in box magazines because if the potential for rim lock, why don’t belted magnums suffer from ‘belt lock’? I’d play with belted magnums in the magazine and answer my own question, but I’ve never owned one.
To answer your question they already own a 270. Let’s be honest who’s really going to shoot at anything passed 900 yards with a 6.anything? Ok 6.8 but you get my point
I avoided 6.5 CR for a couple of years because I didn't want to be part of a fad. Eventually, I got 6.5 and like it so much I bought 4 of them. No reason to be a hater of the 6.5.
It's nicknamed "Need More" for a reason. I'M sure the ammo mans love you for being a "fan boy" now. 30-06 is what everyone comes back to after falling prey to marketing ploys that emptied their wallets. 30-06 is more grains than any of the fads. And 300 black out aka 300 "short" is for short and short-mid distance multi-purpose.
For land owners or anyone for that matter if a doe got a button buck fawn if you kill the doe the button buck will not get ran off by mom natures way of dispersal so that buck will stay in that area and grow up till killed or die of old age
That's a stupid question if i ever heard one. They are not even in the same hunting class. The .223 Rem is a varmint cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor is for medium-sized, nondangerous big game. They are each designed for completely different jobs.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV This has to be the weakest argument I've ever heard. So because it was originally designed as a target round, it can't be used for hunting? The 6.5x55 Swede was originally designed as a military round and was eventually used, and is still to this day, in Scandanavia and elsewhere not only for hunting, but as a long range target round, winning competitions for decades. By your ratinoale, the Swede should never have been used as anything but a military round. Same argument can be made for the .308. It was originally developed as a civilian round for hunting. The case was slightly tweakd by the military, (though dimensionally still identical to the .308), and was adopted by them. It then fairly quickly became , and still to this day, is very popular target cartridge as well. Same thing with the '06. From military, to hunting, to target..I'm sure there are several more examples.
@@NoHomo1776 The same has been said for decades about the .308/7.62x51. It was, and is still to this day, the most common round used by snipers. It can be argued that it became so popular because of all the military wannabes as well.
@@NoHomo1776 This is true, but that's not what's being discussed. You're trying to deflect from your original narrative that the 6.5's purpose is just for long range target shooting. Am I incorrect in this assumption?
I never seen so many dumb people in comment picking a 223 over a 6.5creed, the 6.5creed is a great deer round in same class as 260rem 6.5swedish 7mm08 and close to a 308 223 is a varmint round so its common sense 6.5 is a better choice
@@gatorflea2788its not 223 vs 7mm08, Im saying 6.5creed is a deer round not a 223 so why anyone would pick 223 over it dont know ballistic and 6.5creed out dose 7mm08 my picks the 308, 300yards and in 308,7mm08,260rem,6.5swed and 6.5creed your talking apples to apples
Hi there I'm old shooter and I love my 223 Remington I just killed a Russian boar with it shot it in the ear . At 100 meters out dropped right in the spot
Another example of Ron telling people what they want to hear, instead of giving them good advice, all for the sake of his view count. He would never hunt deer with a 223.
Come winter almost all if the Fawns can survive just fine without the mother. I personally don't hunt fawns or yearlings. Many do. But if that fawn has any size to it at all, it will be ok.
It’s so funny that people compare 223 to 6.5.. 6.5 is .264 bullet diameter, .021 inches bigger than the 243 which has been used for decades to kill deer effectively.. and that’s just the bullet DIAMETER, not to mention the extra weight and length that the 6.5 bullet has to maximize efficiency. Haters
You all are wrong! Say we go hunting anywhere. We forget our shells so we stop to buy some. There's no 6.5 creedmore anywhere. But there's always.243 or .223 shells. The heck with that new Hollywood stuff. If you can't kill it with a traditional caliber you shouldn't be shooting at it!!!!
You all are wrong! Say we go hunting anywhere. We forget our shells so we stop to buy some. There's no 6.5 creedmore anywhere. But there's always.243 or .223 shells. Piss on that new Hollywood stuff. If you can't kill it with a traditional caliber you shouldn't be shooting at it!!!!
One really great reason to pick a 223 over 6.5 for target shooting is you need much shorter ranges to get the same effects on its bullets. Most people don’t have long ranges accessible to them, and it’s a lot easier to learn wind drift and bullet drop when you can shoot regularly on shorter ranges with smaller calibers. 22LR would be even better. Not to mention cost of ammunition.
Your so right about the small bullets . I’ve killed deer with 204 32 grain . It don’t exit . But if put right where it needs to be , it will destroy the lungs or heart . Nast little bullet .
9hole did a video on trainer rifles, using .223 and .308 for longer barrel life, cheaper ammo ,and more challenging conditions.
I lived on 12 acres for a few years and there was an old Buck there that hung out with his doe and fawns all year round, every year. So not all bucks are typical. 10:58
The .223 is adequate for the whitetails in Florida. Here many does are in the 90--100 pound range, and quite a few bucks weighing less than 150 pounds fall each year.
Choose a 30-06 and use it for everything. You'll get very proficient and shells are readily available everywhere including gas stations in small towns.
I agree with the caliber, but it’s not 1974 anymore. None of the gas stations in the small towns of my county here in Colorado stock rifle ammunition. We have one small gun store and a Bomgaars in the county seat that carries ammo. Last time I looked, you’d be in luck if you need .308 or 6.5 Creedmore. In the county to the west, there is only one town with a Big R store that stocks ammo, and you can sometimes find 30-06 and occasionally .243 there. The romance of days gone by are nice, but the reality is ammunition really can’t be found everywhere. If all the gas stations and hardware stores where you live stock shelves and shelves of 30-06, that’s wonderful and I’m happy for you. But in the west, we aren’t so lucky
Bygone era
I think the 3006 is great, but when it comes to sheer enjoyment, but also coupled with serious capability for hunting and seems like that’s a great all-around winning chambering
Love your pod cast . I’m always excited when I get the notification. Thanks for all the info .
I have a 223 and 6.5 creadmore. I use 233 for muskrats, but 6.5 for bigger animals.
Its Creedmoor not creadmore ...
70 gr. Hornady GMX over varget works great on white tails.. Only drawback is you need a 1:8 - 1:7 twist barrel...
I’ve used the 70 TSX on quite a few pronghorn, has worked phenomenally. Farthest shot has been 125 yards
@@phild9813 yeah buddy! Those Barnes bullets are real nice too!👍
Great podcast Ron. Thank you.
A much more on target question would be why buy a .223 over a 224 valkyrie or 22 Nosler? I shoot the first 2 so I can comment on that, and although the 224 is superior in almost every way there is still many reasons for choosing the 223 mainly cost, availability and no real advantage under say 600 yards if your shooting the lower weight bullets. But I would say there is no reason to buy a 223 or 556 over a 223 Wylde though but that's more a MSR barrel question rather then a caliber question as the wild just allows you to shoot both 223 and 556 safely and accurately.
I take several whitetail a year here in Texas with my ar using 62g speer gold dot bonded soft points. So far I've never needed a second shot and heart and lungs are destroyed.
I hand load those but used to use the federal msr 62g bonded soft points because they're available as a factory load but not for reloading. Bullet design matters. I also rarely have to shoot out to 75 yards and most are 50 yards and in but I've gone out to just over 100 yards with no issues. Not sure I'd go much further with that round but that's just me since the bullistics for that round are good for far more than that.
31 minutes in, question about Axis II and rust. Ron you mentioned some things about barrels and coatings and Cerekote, and how it's not inside the bore. But, the modern day equivalent to "blueing" is Nitride coatings or QPQ or Salt bath nitride or whatever name some company uses(trademarks being a thing and all), it's all the same, and it is a chemical conversion surface treatment that is commonly used on both chrome moly/chrome moly vanadium, and stainless barrels alike. It is a wonderful thing that adds several valuable properties to gun steel, particularly barrels, but receivers and parts as well. First it prevents rust, and it's darned effective at it. Secondly it adds a surface hardness and heat treat effect to the steel that can help barrels to maintain their best accuracy longer by resisting the heat cracks that lead to "barrel burnout" in the throats longer than bare steel, and it does this without adding any thickness that's has tolerances, ie: chrome lined barrels, so it doesn't affect the accuracy potential the way some chrome lined barrels do, such as military rifles. Many many barrel manufacturers and gun makers have embraced this over the last couple decades and it's a proven concept with industry wide acceptance. You probably have more than 1 rifle in your collection with a nitrided barrel whether you know it or not, same goes for many of your listeners. It's jet black and just a little glossy, or tends to be, but can be relatively matte as well. I've even been told by a custom shop around where I live that I was having do some Cerekote work for me, that people in the competition world will sometimes buy a quality chrome-lined barrel and shoot it till they find it to be " broken-in" to it's best accuracy and then send the barrel out to be nitride coated to lock in that accuracy! Can't confirm that of course, but hey if you're deep enough into that works to know your barrel smiths and they know the guys their sending their barrels to for treatment, than I suppose it's only a phone call and a fee away perhaps.
Well, creedmore is a long action in AR 10 length, not short action AR 15. Better comparison would be 6.5 Grendel, both blow .223 away performance wise, but Grendel is short action.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV Because he's correct? He's not talking about bolt actions, he's talking about AR platforms and as that's where both of these started it's quite appropriate.
@@StyxHGuiltyDVor you just never built an ar and don’t understand there is different platforms that use the same terminology 😂
@@StyxHGuiltyDV long or short action is determined by cartridge length, not whether it’s a semi or bolt gun. I’m sorry your 5,000$ ar10 didn’t explain that to you when you bought it. My ar cost me 800$ to build from bare receivers, first one I’ve owned and built and it’s taught me a lot, maybe next time build an ar10 and you’ll gain some more knowledge. School of the American rifle is great resource to reference. Try not to be such an ignoramus at your next interaction with humans.
@@StyxHGuiltyDVThe idea that he might not know as much as you because you spent more on an AR10 is enough to prove you've lost this argument.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV short action cartridge >2.8” length. Long action cartridge
I always avoided leaving fawns alone by shooting mom and then the fawn(s), because they normally circle around. They are the best tasting deer hands down.
I used to do the same when I lived in Illinois with too many deer.
BAMBI: massacre edition!
_In the new "In-N-Out" less than 60 seconds format!_
@phild9813 our state has 1,000,000 whitetails in it. Crazy
Very interesting rule of thumb on the relative exit pupil:eye pupil diameter as a function of time of day. I'll carry that with me as a simple way to help decide what to do in low light. - e.g. drop the magnification level!
The Savage Axis as well as other budget rifles do have rust issues. Possibly budget bluing process. They just require a little extra care
At 31:11 you mentioned that the barrel might have not had Wax or Oil on it to cause rusting, this is the first that I have heard anything about putting Wax on a Barrel, are you talking about putting Car Wax or what type of Wax on the Barrel and how about Waxing the whole Gun, please elaborate more on Waxing a Firearm vs Oiling a Firearm. Thanks in advance.
Car wax the whole gun
The 2 cartridges to own are 5.56 & 308 (aka 7.6 creedmoor) preferably in 20" AR platforms
Interesting comment about critters eating lead particles at 6:40. Wondering where you got such a notion? In California, they banned lead ammo for hunting based on this assumption, and a couple of incomplete studies. Later it was determined that CA condors lead poisoning was not from lead bullets found in carrion, but from lead paint on buildings. Nevertheless, lead bullets remain banned for hunting in CA.
.270. Speed kills 😳😂🇺🇸👍
You could try the 25/45 sharps or the 277 wolverine both spawned off the 223 Remington,I'm not sure if the people that came up with the wolverine are still loading it or not might be a great idea to bring it back to life
Love my 7mm-08. 140 grain nosler partitions or 140 grain barnes TTSX.
Hey Ron can you talk about the 25-20 cartridge?
Here’s one I rarely hear about but. The .240 Weatherby. It got my attention when I was a kid growing up. How about that one? What are/were the bullets on that one. I doubt if recoil was a factor?
While I have taken a few deer with 223 I am a 444 Marlin or 338-06, or 30-06 guy. I built a 224 Valkyrie AR for coyotes and just happen to use it for deer last year. I believe it was a 65gr bullet and high shoulder hit. Deer fell straight down. Totally not what I expected. Seems to have the same affect on coyotes. L O L.
Have you reviewed the 358 Hoosier and or the 450 Bushmaster.
Question- why do you think that we have new rifle cartridges coming out all the time but no new shotgun cartridges. The same arguments in my opinion can be had about not needing new of both. Manufacturers could be trying to make a better mouse trap in this world as well. Just curious thanks.
Hey Ron hope you well,to use myself as a example to answer the gentleman's question.I own a 223 Rem 24 inch ,as well as 6.5x55 swede and my big boy 303 British.S basically variety is the spice of life lol with these 3 calibers I can hunt anything from geese/rabbits to Cape buffalo yes In South Africa we do crazy things like that,on top of that if one rifle malfunction in a hunt, I have another as backup and lastly I like that both the 6.5 swede and the 303 doesn't cause as much meat damage compared to high velocity rounds
I agree on the fact that many of us are just tired of hearing everyone go on and on about the 6.5 Creedmoor. Ill just stick with .308 The cartridge I'm excited about is the .277 Fury or 6.8X51 and the new 8.6 Blackout is very interesting. Q The company that makes the 8.6 has a rifle called the FIX and it only has an 8" barrel. Perfect for AR pistols and Short Barreled Rifles. The guy that developed it uses it to shoot cape Buffalo. It also has significant advantages in Armor penetration. Just like the .300 blk out it comes in sub-sonic and supersonic. Which means when used with a suppressor out of a 8" barrel you get an extremely capable platform for Close Quarters Combat, Room clearing etc. Plus it would be devastating on animals.
I have a good answer for guy’s choosing scopes ,,the light transmission on a six hundred dollar leopold is 91 percent,,,the light transmission on a bushnell banner 110 dollars is 91 percent,,,however the more expensive scope it is easy to see why they cost more ,,,much better picture
The 222rem was used in New Zealand as a deer cullers favourite for many years due to weight of ammo and cost
I am also left eye dominant and have to shoot rifles with open sights left hand while pistols and scoped rifles are right hand.
The only thing I would add to " Why shoot anything that looks sickly?" I would to prevent suffering or prevent spread of a disease. But I wouldn't eat it, it's more of an ethnic question with me.
*ethics, otherwise it's a possible matter of war crimes... lol.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 your right..." Sorry autocorrect"
It's never a war crime, the first time..originality is important.
I recently shot a Kudu with rabies. Beautiful bull, but the Rabies had already become noticeable. My family wouldn't touch the meat with a 10ft pole, but our staff on the farm really wanted it. We ended up discarding the parts affected by rabies (head, throat, lungs. Can't remember what else) and they took the meat.
It is the more ethical thing to do to shoot a sickley animal. More so if they’ve got cwd or rabbies. In germany they call that ‘hegeabschuss’ and will be praised just as much as shooting a trophy roe buck
Ron. Question for you sir.
If using a . 243 for varmint hunting and not concerned about damage to fur. Would you use the smaller 55 grain bullets or bigger bullets shooting longer ranges such as 300 all the way out to 500 yards maybe? Even on things such as ground hogs, crows, etc. ? Like the idea of a flat shooting fast bullet, but for long range wouldn't the bigger 75 grain or 80 grain bullets be better..?
Thanks in advance
Regards from South Central Indiana. USA
Tim.
I have found that with copper bullets is that at extended ranges they do not expand reliable . I was shooting them out of a 300 Win Mag. 165 grain at 3240 fps over my Chronograph, And at 400 yards they did not expand past the base diameter on Elk. I stopped using them, They work very well as long as the velocity upon impact is relatively high but as they slow they shoot more like a solid slug. Just my experience though.
Depends on use. 556 is cheaper and has more available bullet ranges from factory ammo for different use. Good for small game. Emergency gun. IMO, it’s hard to find lighter 6.5 bullets in factory loads.
Barns TTX 150gr in my 303British is a good deer round but for my 30-06,308,30-30 and 6.5creed im shooting lead only not a fan of copper bullets unless its the barns TTX for my 303British not many options for that gun even for reloading
I think Shane the truck drive is looking for the 450 Bushmaster (1.7" and different parent case of 284win). The 475 linebaugh is trimmed to 1.4". So assuming hes running a rifle, there ya go.
My daughter is ten and is a wisp of a thing. She has difficulty with rifle weight and recoil. Im trying to find a monolithic lead free bullet that would get enough penetration in 223. If you know of one please let me know. I live in CA and lead bullets are out for deer.
Sorry I can’t help you with a copper bullet type for a 223 or 5.56. But I can tell you where I live here in this area a 223 is against the law (illegal, not legal) to hunt deer with it, I know this for a 100% fact. In your area the laws might be different.
Check out the Barnes offerings in copper I love them for deer and hogs, also the Hornady CX
Federal premium with Barnes solids .
70gr TSX under a 5.56mm load out of a 16.5" barrel suppressed has taken boar, deer, yotes and everything in between... I dont understand the Needmore when you have .243win in any action you could dream of with loads that out perform needmores all day...
Personally, I'm not taking a 6.5 creed hunting for anything (unless that's all there is and I'm hungry). The .223 has sooo many possibilities... to a limit.
The 6.5 Creedmore is better and superior over the .223, check out the ballistics.
I have both , and wouldn't dream of using the .223 for hunting anything other than coyotes , but I also live in a land of giant whitetails , I have harvested bucks 328#on the hoof
I wouldn't choose a 6.5 creedmore for anything. Too expensive ammo and I'm just not that impressed with it. The 223 is an awesome round but it does have its limits. However if it'll kill a 300lb person it'll kill a 300lb animal. It's all about shot placement.
I'd rather use a bow or sticks and rocks. Lol!
@@StyxHGuiltyDV ~ ~Here is backing it up showing I am right:: ”Case capacity” in grains of water:: 6.5 Creedmore is 52.5 grains. 223 Remington is 31.4 grains. The 6.5 Creedmore has 21.1 more grains ‘or’ 40.2% percent more case capacity.
~Smallest bullet for the 6.5 Creedmore is 95 grains, 3300 feet per second, 2297 muzzle energy.
~Largest bullet for the 223 Remington is 75 grains, 2790 feet per second, 1296 muzzle energy.
~ >>This data above clearly shows that the 6.5 Creedmore is far superior and much better than the 223 Remington. This is a physical fact and beyond dispute.
I don't hate 6.5 creedmore , but . 223 is a great cartridge and great for hunting like here in Southern Indiana where it's crowded. It's quiet compared to the 6.5, it's good for about 300 plus yards, and it's inexpensive.
That was fascinating about scipes
Thanks Ron,for expressing my anger to the gun writers who say things as,long range target shooters miss 30-40% more(the target) than 6.5 cr, did they hear of camp Perry? Or I'm a guide, all my elk are taken over 600 yards me and all my hunters use 65cr!
Wow!!! Ron, this episode has really put your creative energy to make something out of nothing on display. Were you a gun writer in the past?
223 well full metal jacket head shot flatten out roll throughout body more damage but that 150m mark even better ammo get it anywhere.
I have found that Remington and Savages made in the last 15 years rust easier than in the past. I think it is the matt-finish.
Not a fan of ceracoat as it does nothing to protect the inside of the barrel that is the important part. Definitely get the stainless for a hunting rifle that will be carried in wet weather.
Mosin nagant has a crazy twist.
30:06 for hunting. Whatever is fun for everything else.
I’m tired of hearing about the damn caliber. Does it have magical powers?
Question I have a sako 85 I try many different ammo and shoots the best with Federal law enforcement ammunition I wonder if you can use that for deer hunting thanks
6.5CM is the closest to 6.5 Swede. .223 is a sweetheart. If I looked into .243 I might be persuaded. I'm too broke to afford African hunnts..
We are talking about a miserable little cartridge versa a slightly less miserable little cartridge. They are only good for varmints and a 22/250 takes care of that.
Hey ron you mustve never worked in a pizza shop! Area of a circle is a: pi r^2
So a 44mm bell at 10x has an exit pupil of 6.66mm and a 50mm bell at 10x has an exit pupil of 7.9mm.
If your pupil swells to 7mm. Then…
22x32:444mm/10: 44.4mm^2
Sqrt
6.66
Great podcast, as usual. Question, though: near the end of the last question regarding monos v ELD-X, you mention that impact velocity of the monos have to be high enough to initiate adequate expansion (my words, not yours, but your idea). That being said, what about their use in certain cartridges that don't have a high muzzle velocities to begin with, e.g., 7x57 or 6.5x57, 6.5x54, etc.? While Barnes indicates expansion down to about 1800 fps, other manufactures have higher minimum thresholds, and that could potentially shrink effective ranges. What are your thoughts? Thanks, as always.
This is like a comparison between a wrench and an orange.
I'd like to see the abbreviation for Creedmoor adopted as Crd. instead of CM. CM is already an abbreviation for Centimeters.
Why does no one put the 220 swift against these calibers and why haven’t hornady or another bullet maker done some all copper or heavier bullets for the 220 swift
Here in Belgium, and I suspect neighbouring countries of Germany and France, doe season always coincides with calf season. It is deemed unethical to shoot the doe before the calf.
When encoutering family groups, be it deer or wild boar, you always target the young ones first.
…correct, we do the same in Sweden! Calf first then buck and we leave the doe to bread the next year .
…I would like to add that the 223 was very popular in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s for driven roe deer nothing bigger….believe we used 3,4gram bullet.
As the variety of game (from roe/fallow/red dear and wild boar) on a driven shoot is so different in size we use a cartridge that will cover all !!
This is like a comparison between 243 and 300 Winchester magnum.... as an aside the absolute only reason to get a 223 is you own an AR15, and I still prefer to defend against two legged critters with something more powerful.
Yes, sadly the Axis does seem to rust quickly. Why? That i dont know.
Which barrel finish do you have ?
I totally believe for a big game rifle a stainless barrel is a extremely good option because you want to carry your rifle with a fouled barrel because most rifles can throw the first shot out of the group ( fouler) a protective coating like ceracoat protects the unimportant outside of the barrel and does nothing for the inside, the important part?? For a target rifle or one that will only be used in dry conditions stainless is not important.
Zimbabwe heart shots = GOOD. Texas heart shots = BAD 🤣😂😂🤣
30-06 is my hunting round
If someone doesn't hate your cartridge, you have the wrong cartridge. Popularity will always bring condemnation. Stick with what you know And go with it If the added feels right and it shoots right you got yourself a good cartridge Pair that with a good rifle and you will be stacking game for days
Thumbs down! 👎
What's the 6.5?
I was too busy hunting with the classics. 270, .338= two best all arounds.
What's the 6.5 hype
The 6.5 is the metric designation for cartridges that shoot .264" dimater bullets. The first 6.5mm was the 6.5x55 "Swede" harking back to 1892. Many other countries had 6.5s including Italy, Japan, Germany, Austria, France, Portugal, and Denmark. The first 6.5mm in the USA was the .256 Newton. The most famous is the 264 Win Mag. There is also 6.5 Rem Mag., 260 Rem., 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-284 Norma, 26 Nosler, 6.5 RPM, 6.5-300 Wby Mag., 6.5-06, and even a 6.5x47 Lapua. The hype is due to low recoil plus long, high B.C. bullets that are extremely efficient, minimizing wind deflection and relatively low recoil for easy shooting. Sorry you've missed them.
This ought to be interesting...
The 130 grain bullet should be the heaviest one should use in the 6.5 Creedmoor. The gas tank is really too small for the heavier ones, the huge loss of energy at longer ranges is the problem and 130 grain is good all the way out to 500yds the heavier 140s even with the higher coef do not have since they start out very slow and can't gain because of that reason hence the PRC with the bigger gas tank and the 223 is not in a league even close to that of 6.5 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor after all its a 308 necked down to the smaller diameter, I had to learn these things the hard way and now I know the rest of the story. Aim small, good hunting, GOD bless.
I have a question more than a comment. I have heard people say a 6.5 creadmoore travels fast enough an animal doesnt know its hit. Would this be a bullet proformance problem? Or is it possible to be too close and the bullet just not open up. Also i hope your feeling well Ron. Your voice sounds a little off in the past couple of videos. Your content is great and i look forward to the next one.
6.5 Creedmore is just another 3000fps cartridge like many others. It has a good selection of bullet weights and construction available and terminally performs similarly to 308win until you push out there in ranges, but does a better job in wind due to typically better ballistic coefficient. You can't be too close for bullet expansion, the higher the velocity the more rapid expansion will be, given an identical bullet.
I'm using remington corelock 140 grain. I haven't had issues was just trying to get an answer to what might be an old wives tail. Thanks folks
It was six hundred yards good or bad
Between the two, hand me the 6.5 Creedmoor, the Creedmoor brings more to the table, and there are states where a caliber restriction of .25caliber or larger is required for hunting whitetail deer!, .223 isn't a legal option, always check you DNR regs, that
Smaller the recoil and lighter the rifle higher the hit propability...ruger american ranch in 223 is a whitetail killer I'm arkansas.. great for kids women beginners...for me in brush.
Higher the caliber heavier the bullet... more forgiving on shot placement...
It depends... these subjects will always depend on the shooters cognitive ability to get involved... I m stupid
Your breed of hunter seems to care more about guns then hunting. To me the gun i have is an after thought. Adapt and survive is part of whats fun about hunting. You can snipe targets at the range. You dont have to get dirty and the targets know your there just as much as the deer that u hunt do...
I think if I were to get a Creedmoor it would be a 6mm or 22 Creedmoor.
At 22:50 you talk a little about eye dominance. While rare, there are some of us who do not have a dominant eye, and it might be good to talk about that a little. The Range Monkey on the Active Self Protection Extra channel has this issue. I know that when I look down a pistol with iron sights and both eyes open, I see two rear sights and two front sights (insert Doc Holiday joke). The problem is that my rear sights are much farther apart than the front; the front are almost touching. If my paper is at the common distance of 7 yards, I see one target and it appears as though my double-vision guns will shoot to the left and right of my target respectively. If “both” guns are aligned this way, I will probably get a center hit. If I align either gun at the target according to the sights, it will be a miss to the side.
Hi dude, what you are describing is parallax error in a nutshell. Aligning either the whole picture from either the right or left eye should see a hit, as would taking an average of both. The issue with no dominance is that it's slower to identify which version of the rear and front sight should be used. This can be sped up by repetition, closing alternate eyes when you have bought the pistol to bear, until you know exactly which sight picture belongs to which eye, presentatiion after presentation. You may see benefit in using a modified isosceles rather than strict, favouring the eye on the strong hand side, though it all gets messy on transitions. Red dots and other single point sighting systems ameliorate this and you may find it easier to adopt one than put in the reps on open sights. They have improved a lot at the cheaper end (e.g Holosun) to the point that outside of beating it with a hammer, they just need a battery replacement as part of scheduled maintenance (every 6 months for example).
I HAVE A ROSSI 44 MAG. WITH A 24" BARREL AND SHOOT BUFFALO BORE 340 GRAIN HARD CAST +P+ WHICH PER HORNADY'S CALCULATOR COULD KILL AT 500 YDS. NOT SO FAST, PBR IS REALLY 210 YDS.( SIGHTED AT 175 YDS)TRAJECTORY MAKES 300 YDS A REAL CHALLENGE. FORTUNATE FOR ME, MY UNIT RARELY REQUIRES SHOTS BEYOND 75 YDS!
Jello Ron, you mentioned an episode with Joseph von Benedikt where he does scouting with his sons. Can you provide a link? Thanks!
th-cam.com/video/mle7_MJkavs/w-d-xo.html
This is a great way to spend a weekend with your sons!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast Thank you so much!!
You know I kinda laugh at the 8.6 Black Out. Those guys could pick up a $50 Mauser 98 in 8x57 and put down hogs and anything else with cheap PPU 196gr. Soft Point 8x57 Mauser. No expensive brass, no expensive monolythic bullet, no need for AR10$$, No need for expensive hard to find super fast twist barrel etc.... They could also use 338-06, 338 Federal, 35 Whelen, 358 Winchester. Even in the AR10 the 358 Winchester adn 338 Federal are options and you would have much easier time finding ammo and getting a decent price on them. I have not used the new 8.6 Black Out but in my book it seems like it is mostly novelty. Some times the juice is not wortht he squeeze! It is not diffacult to put down ferrel hogs.
I understand that the belt on a magnum cartridge is there for headspace, just like a rimmed cartridge. My question is that, if a rimmed cartridge isn’t preferred in box magazines because if the potential for rim lock, why don’t belted magnums suffer from ‘belt lock’? I’d play with belted magnums in the magazine and answer my own question, but I’ve never owned one.
To answer your question they already own a 270. Let’s be honest who’s really going to shoot at anything passed 900 yards with a 6.anything? Ok 6.8 but you get my point
I'm left handed but I shoot right handed my right eye is my dominant eye.
I avoided 6.5 CR for a couple of years because I didn't want to be part of a fad. Eventually, I got 6.5 and like it so much I bought 4 of them. No reason to be a hater of the 6.5.
It's nicknamed "Need More" for a reason. I'M sure the ammo mans love you for being a "fan boy" now.
30-06 is what everyone comes back to after falling prey to marketing ploys that emptied their wallets.
30-06 is more grains than any of the fads. And 300 black out aka 300 "short" is for short and short-mid distance multi-purpose.
For land owners or anyone for that matter if a doe got a button buck fawn if you kill the doe the button buck will not get ran off by mom natures way of dispersal so that buck will stay in that area and grow up till killed or die of old age
That's a stupid question if i ever heard one. They are not even in the same hunting class. The .223 Rem is a varmint cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor is for medium-sized, nondangerous big game. They are each designed for completely different jobs.
6.5 cm was created for long range target shooting after all the stories of snipers in the Iraq war got nerds excited.
@@StyxHGuiltyDV
This has to be the weakest argument I've ever heard. So because it was originally designed as a target round, it can't be used for hunting? The 6.5x55 Swede was originally designed as a military round and was eventually used, and is still to this day, in Scandanavia and elsewhere not only for hunting, but as a long range target round, winning competitions for decades. By your ratinoale, the Swede should never have been used as anything but a military round. Same argument can be made for the .308. It was originally developed as a civilian round for hunting. The case was slightly tweakd by the military, (though dimensionally still identical to the .308), and was adopted by them. It then fairly quickly became , and still to this day, is very popular target cartridge as well. Same thing with the '06. From military, to hunting, to target..I'm sure there are several more examples.
@@NoHomo1776 The same has been said for decades about the .308/7.62x51. It was, and is still to this day, the most common round used by snipers. It can be argued that it became so popular because of all the military wannabes as well.
@@Dimitrius001
Possibly, but .30 caliber cartridges have been popular with hunters since long before .308 WIN/7.62x51 NATO were created.
@@NoHomo1776
This is true, but that's not what's being discussed. You're trying to deflect from your original narrative that the 6.5's purpose is just for long range target shooting. Am I incorrect in this assumption?
I never seen so many dumb people in comment picking a 223 over a 6.5creed, the 6.5creed is a great deer round in same class as 260rem 6.5swedish 7mm08 and close to a 308 223 is a varmint round so its common sense 6.5 is a better choice
7mm08 !
@@gatorflea2788its not 223 vs 7mm08, Im saying 6.5creed is a deer round not a 223 so why anyone would pick 223 over it dont know ballistic and 6.5creed out dose 7mm08 my picks the 308, 300yards and in 308,7mm08,260rem,6.5swed and 6.5creed your talking apples to apples
Yes, it hurts. I don't understand how shooters can have so little ballistic understanding.
Next. 17hmr vs 50 BMG 😂😂😂
Hi there I'm old shooter and I love my 223 Remington I just killed a Russian boar with it shot it in the ear .
At 100 meters out dropped right in the spot
I can't get my head around why anyone would want to shoot an elephant or any animal that is not going to be used for meat .
6.5 CM is massively over-hyped
I know its popular to hate on the popular thing but honestly the 6.5 Creedmoor deserves much of the hate it gets .its just slow.
I have an 8MM-06AI. Anybody else?
The .30 cal will hurt you bad.
Another example of Ron telling people what they want to hear, instead of giving them good advice, all for the sake of his view count. He would never hunt deer with a 223.
Come winter almost all if the Fawns can survive just fine without the mother. I personally don't hunt fawns or yearlings. Many do. But if that fawn has any size to it at all, it will be ok.
It’s so funny that people compare 223 to 6.5.. 6.5 is .264 bullet diameter, .021 inches bigger than the 243 which has been used for decades to kill deer effectively.. and that’s just the bullet DIAMETER, not to mention the extra weight and length that the 6.5 bullet has to maximize efficiency. Haters
You all are wrong! Say we go hunting anywhere. We forget our shells so we stop to buy some. There's no 6.5 creedmore anywhere. But there's always.243 or .223 shells. The heck with that new Hollywood stuff. If you can't kill it with a traditional caliber you shouldn't be shooting at it!!!!
And wen you are past 40 you don’t hawe non advatetch biger scoup ask your doctor IF you don’t belew 😅
You all are wrong! Say we go hunting anywhere. We forget our shells so we stop to buy some. There's no 6.5 creedmore anywhere. But there's always.243 or .223 shells. Piss on that new Hollywood stuff. If you can't kill it with a traditional caliber you shouldn't be shooting at it!!!!