MUSICALLY VISIONARY // Refused - The Shape of Punk To Come // Composer Reaction

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 77

  • @ElizaSkold
    @ElizaSkold หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Glad to finally get a reaction to this album, as usual it's interesting to hear your thoughts.
    I'm actually a little surprised you're not familiar with Ornette Coleman. The Shape of Jazz to Come was a very influential album in itself, but more than that, he's also credited with pretty much starting the free jazz movement (the genre is even named after his 1961 album Free Jazz). And yeah, a lot of Refused are very much into jazz, you might remember that three of the members recently formed a jazz band with Mats Gustafsson. In particular though it's their drummer David Sandström who's a huge jazzhead, and he actually even plays on the most recent Fire! Orchestra album, and has collaborated with the trio Fire! in the past too.
    As someone else mentioned, most of the tracks actually do transition into each other without any silence, I guess it's just a second of buffering on the streaming service you're using or something (though to be fair it's also harder to notice when you're pausing between songs anyway for the analysis). I actually really love all the playful little outros and intros throughout this, and I think the band really made great and creative use of the album format, making it feel like a pirate radio broadcast (especially with the channel surfing as you called it). This is definitely an album that works as a whole rather than individual songs - I think Bruitist Pome #5 makes a lot more sense when it goes straight into New Noise, and I feel like the closing track works as nice 'calm after the storm' type of thing after the explosive climax of Tannhäuser / Derivè.
    For New Noise, you called the lyrics gatekeepy, and I can see how it can be read that way, but it's very much the opposite. It's a criticism of gatekeeping and elitism both in the hardcore punk scene of the time, and within capitalist structures. Like basically all of their songs on the subject, it's a marxist critique of the commodification of art, in this case in particular about financial barriers to entry for "high" art (hence the lines "it's there for us to admire if we can afford the beauty of it" and "the doors are locked on us 'cause money buys the access and we can't pay the cost") and a call for people to make new counterculture art and to not let the upper classes control art. Here's a quote from the liner notes:
    "So reclaim art, take back fine culture for the people, the working people, the living people and burn down their art galleries and destroy their fancy constructions and buildings. Because we, unlike the bourgeoisie, have nothing to lose and therefore our expression will be the only honest one, our words will be the only challenging ones and our art will be the one revolutionary expression. We need new noise and new voices and new canvases to become something more than the last poets of a useless generation."
    And yeah, if the album's opening line of "I've got a bone to pick with capitalism... and a few to break" didn't give it away, this is a very marxist album =P
    Anyhow, great video as usual! Even if you didn't vibe with the album as much, I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on these songs.

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I need to listen to this album again but straight through this time and hopefully in a way that showcases the connectivity of the tracks. Spotify has something weird with 2 seconds of silence between each track. If nothing else to to feel the rising and falling action across the album because to me it was a rather consistent experience. But it makes sense that it would sound like pirate radio and that the noisier transition ideas would provide a flow to the album that I missed with the pausing.
      Good call on the New Noise interpretation. I missed that angle entirely but I think it also is a bit dismissive of big label music.

  • @TheMagicalArden
    @TheMagicalArden หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    Crazy you posted this today, i literally listened to it the first time yesterday. I just thought this morning, "Man i should really relisten to that album. See if i can gather anything new about it." Glad we can- kind of- do it together! 😊

    • @whatdothlife4660
      @whatdothlife4660 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Have you listened to Relationship of Command by At the Drive-In yet? That album came out around the same time and makes me feel a lot of similar feelings listening to it and has shares pristine production.

  • @cottelito81
    @cottelito81 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Thank you for doing this, it's been very interesting to hear your perspective on one of the most impactful albums of my life. I'm from Sweden and was just about to turn 17 when Shape of Punk dropped. Then I had the privilege to see Refused live three times the following year, and that changed my whole perspective of music. This is basically what got me into progressive rock and metal, but also made me listen to more electronic music. The only thing I'll add is that I think much like Deloused in the Comatorium by The Mars Volta, I view it as a complete work of art rather than a collection of songs.

  • @QandDRecordings
    @QandDRecordings หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    Two notes:
    1. The instrumentation at the end in Derive is actually upright bass and melodica, not electric bass and violins. They also used upright bass on the jazz bridge of Deadly Rhythm and throughout the last song.
    2. I don’t believe any of the electronic bits, nor any other genre bending bits, were done sarcastically. They are not opposed to new sounds, in fact the whole point of the album is that, to get back to the roots of punk and keep it fresh, you must embrace new sounds and continue to experiment with what punk can be. The new noise that they’re opposed to is the streamlined, sanitized, formulaic versions of punk, the stuff that takes zero risks, either sonically or politically. And I think they ended up being proven right, ‘cause the last couple decades of punk and punk adjacent bands were all listening to this record and taking different lessons and ideas from it. That’s why it seems so prophetic.

  • @JUJUJUNO
    @JUJUJUNO หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Man, this album is absolutely insane, I really hope you dig it! Changed a lot of my views in a musical sense when I heard it for the first time, I believe the subtitle on the album cover is a perfect encapsulation of what the project is, "A Chimerical Bombination in 12 Bursts" definitely fits well with the whole experience.

  • @8dayssooner
    @8dayssooner 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Something that always gets overlooked is that Refused actually released a 5.1 surround version of this album as well. I’ve never had the right set up to listen to it in this format, but can imagine it would elevate it even more.

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      I might have to track that down since I have a 5.1 setup. Usually I find surround sound music to be gimmicky but if anyone could pull it off it would definitely be Refused.

  • @luddewho
    @luddewho หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    As someone who grew up with this album it's funny to hear the casual, first listen commentary during the songs in contrast to the turns this album takes you on to blow your mind again and again!

  • @perhvarnes
    @perhvarnes หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Your face at 2:45 says it all. The entire album grooves!

  • @robdaniel3211
    @robdaniel3211 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I still remember right when this came out. I emailed with the singer Dennis back then as I had loved the band for years and still have a print-off of the email he sent me when they broke up and said “yes, it’s true. Refused are f*cking dead.” He told me to look out for a few other things the band members would be doing including International Noise Conspiracy, who ended up actually becoming a rad band. I miss the simpler times with snail mail, then email buddies that you would drive hours to see, meet, and hang out with at shows. Did the same with Cedric and Omar for years up through At The Drive In’s “Vaya” EP too.

    • @greggerypeccary
      @greggerypeccary หลายเดือนก่อน

      You mean the good old days when there were still real punks and people weren't pretentious wankers who want to be rock stars...

    • @hawkhobo8130
      @hawkhobo8130 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I bet you have so many amazing stories to tell. You should consider putting together a memoir of some kind to put your time in the scene in writing!

    • @communionshaped
      @communionshaped หลายเดือนก่อน

      i’d love to hear the stories of omar and cedric

  • @jorraw
    @jorraw หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    1:22:36-1:23:29 perfectly captures my fever dreams as a kid. I've never been able to describe them before, but this is exactly it-my dream. Wavy, faster and faster, higher and higher, until it started over again.

  • @davidbonar5190
    @davidbonar5190 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    "this part sounds like channel surfing...." then song proceeds to end with actual channel surfing :D

  • @andrefaria2921
    @andrefaria2921 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    You commented how the intro to the deadly rythen sounded like early metalcore. Thats essentialy how the previous two Refused albums sound like. Very well played early metalcore.

  • @LegionairMusic
    @LegionairMusic หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Scandinavian music was something else in the 90's

    • @garryiglesias4074
      @garryiglesias4074 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Sweden gave great music to the world: ABBA, Refused, Satanic Surfers, ... (And many others but I hate death metal or "fantasy" metal).

  • @phaseshifter78
    @phaseshifter78 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Enjoyed this great review very much thank you. Personally one of my fave albums ever. Truly ground breaking for the time. Production is amazing, drums are just incredible. A truly seminal album 🔥

    • @phaseshifter78
      @phaseshifter78 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Tanhauser is ludicrously good too

  • @Malefication
    @Malefication หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Funny timing that I got back into Cyberpunk 2077 4 days ago, and Refused wrote the game’s theme song. Looking forwards to properly watch this vid in a few days when I have more time.

    • @azithoth6860
      @azithoth6860 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I was wondering if this gets addressed, they wrote more than the theme song. Refused IS Samurai, Johnny's band in the game. I haven't found out yet how that came to be

    • @TheOriginalHairyDave
      @TheOriginalHairyDave หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@azithoth6860 basically, the composer was a fan of Refused and thought they would sound great as Samurai. He contacted the band and they agreed. There's a behind the scenes video on the official Cyberpunk 2077 channel about it if you're interested.
      Edit: one of the lead programmers, not the composer, my bad

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Wait.... what? I gotta finish Witcher 3 first but now I'm really looking forward to getting to Cyberpunk.

  • @thejetsonslol
    @thejetsonslol หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I enjoyed the review! I love this record. When it came out, I had Summerholidays on repeat for a minute but could not appreciate it fully for what it was nor explore the entire record. Now, I come back to it often. Like you said, and because parts of it sound fun. The riffs are also sick and that raw aggression.... it's something else.

  • @marcusedwards8283
    @marcusedwards8283 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Frigging awesome man!

  • @xerodelacroix5552
    @xerodelacroix5552 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Every -core band in the 00's was ripping off this album, At The Drive In's Relationship Of Command or AFI's Sing The Sorrow, or parts of all three.

    • @Andruthless
      @Andruthless หลายเดือนก่อน

      "inspired by"

    • @pechondelgado
      @pechondelgado หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      It's true that Refused formed earlier, but At the Drive-In didn't rip them off. They were already locked in to their sound before that album came out, most likely influenced by the same artists Refused listened to. Fugazi being the obvious one.
      They put out In/Casino/Out in 98 months before Shape of Punk to Come was released. They were barely a 00s band releasing their final album in 00 and breaking up in 01.
      They were contemporaries, not rip offs but to be fair to your point, everybody (even Refused) was influenced by other artists at the time, so there are similarities to be found. Refused didn't invent hardcore or Post-hardcore. They were just another band who started playing a style that already existed and then found a uniqueness within that. Go listen to early Victory records or Revelation records stuff and you can hear hundreds of bands that played the metalcore/hardcore stuff Refused was also doing.

    • @Andruthless
      @Andruthless หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@pechondelgado I think you misunderstood the OPs post. He said all other bands were ripping off Refused AND At the Drive In AND AFI

    • @adriancole9681
      @adriancole9681 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Holy Hyperbole Batman! Not every core band but there’s definitely some.

  • @canofmilk1658
    @canofmilk1658 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    2:10:33 my solution for the random noise at the beginning and ends of some of the songs is just skip it lmao. the actual content in every song on this album is gold so I think its a worthy sacrifice to just skip the parts you don’t like for this good of a band. also thanks a lot for doing this reaction its really in depth and i enjoyed it!

  • @dis.infectant
    @dis.infectant หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I've always heard alot of (obvious?) Fugazi, Brit Pop elements... especially Blur's self-titled from the year prior, as well as fair amount of self-reference (Songs to Fan the Flames...).
    I'd attribute much of the sonic aesthetic to this record to Pelle Henricsson (Tonteknik).
    To my knowledge the band rehearsed in the same building as Meshuggah and were aware, so the mention of Djent elements would make more sense. Pelle also recorded Meshuggah's None, which I'd consider the birth of what became the "Djent" sound.
    Very much a product of its time, and thus more easily susceptible to some of the rear-view mirror hate it has since received, especially in light of where they'd eventually end up going, post-reunion.
    Regardless, this definitely opened the door to what bands would feel more free to experiment with later on.

  • @DiiNovensiles
    @DiiNovensiles หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I think of this album as kind of the critical point of PHC - what came before was undeniably pioneering PHC, but this tied PHC together and developed it so it could explode into a huge genre.
    Also Tannhauser is far and away my favorite song on the album, but I still love the album as a whole. It's certainly the most ambitious track, very arguably the most successful one too despite that.

  • @redaffix7320
    @redaffix7320 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    First heard of Refused thanks to Cyberpunk. Two of the songs they did as Samurai--The Ballad of Buck Ravers and Black Dog--are actually two of the best songs I've heard from a game ost. Others like Never Fade Away and Chippin' in are also damn good, though they felt oversaturated with the marketing of the game. Since then I've listened to more of their music and they fucking nail the hardcore punk style with melding more progressive metal flourishes a la Converge with some great groovy choruses. Love the band now.

    • @TaLa7aMcHo
      @TaLa7aMcHo วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      They had to rebrand Refused to SAMURAI and compilate certain songs specifically for the game. And they did a helluva job. If you actually check the lyrics of black dog, you'll be amazed how befitting they are in the context of the game.
      A blind man lost, in the streets
      A pattern here, I need to see
      Keep returning keep trying to leave
      Got a bad feeling that I need to feel
      Black dog runs at my side
      Down a road, no end in sight
      The city sleeps but in my mind
      Got a knot that won't unwind
      In concrete canyons squinting neon eyes
      Black dog beside me, like shadow needing light
      Stalk the backstreets, never at ease
      Locked in a chase that'll never cease
      A bloody moon, portending doom
      Another cruel day is coming soon
      Have to end this but it's just begun
      A final charge, with the rising sun

    • @redaffix7320
      @redaffix7320 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @TaLa7aMcHo from my understanding Refused didn't know they were writing for Cyberpunk, and I don't know how much CDPR shared regarding the story, but even just the themes of the music (let alone direct lyrics like Black Dog and Never Fade Away) fit so perfectly in the setting. Cyberpunk is literally the extreme end of being part of a corporate society, which Refused raged against in the 90s already. Perfect band to write some dark and angry music that intertwines feeling the weight of unchecked power and how existing in that sort of world makes everyone seem less than human. Love that shit.

  • @kyle52905
    @kyle52905 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    This band was really inspired by bands like Nation of Ulysses and Fugazi in particular. Nation of Ulysses is another interesting band as they were one of the earliest post-hardcore bands that were heavily jazz inspired despite being pretty chaotic and dissonant. They definitely aren't my favorite in the scene but they were way ahead of their time and influenced a lot of other bands including At the Drive In. Fugazi's Red Medicine was a self-produced album that came out around this time with really interesting production and weird ideas often influenced by jazz and reggae. They've actually covered tracks off this record and its really easy to see the influence.
    I'm not trying to take anything away from them, this album is still way ahead of its time and one of the best to come out of this era of post-hardcore. Its just there was a lot of stuff that came before them that they were heavily inspired by that people don't mention too often. I think a lot of people think this type of music is adverse to the "simplicity" of punk music. I don't necessarily think that though, because punk has always been compositionally and artistically daring outside of the formative late 70s punk and I guess the DC hardcore stuff. Fugazi literally came out of the ashes of Minor Threat and were way more complex and noisy than most other bands at the time. Sonic Youth and other noisy complex bands were also punk at the time. Hell, most bands from this era of post-hardcore were also pretty much the originators of math rock, emo, and post rock (obviously before they were all considered different genres). I think more people should see bands like Refused as part of the underground punk scene at the time rather than the exception to the rule.

    • @garryiglesias4074
      @garryiglesias4074 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      But it's ALWAYS like that... Same for ALL genres. Even same for paintings and painters.
      Of course there were band playing rock steady before Bob Marley, and almost nobody knows them. But Bob bring Reggae to the masses.
      Of course there were band playing rockabilly before Elvis Presley, and only a few of them are know, by few people... But when Elvis did it, it was a masterclass.
      Of course there were band exploring psychedelic, and a few of them are still known, by... a fraction of people... But when Syd Barret did it, THEN Waters pushed the concept building a full lore, it's still the bests albums in space time.
      Of course there were punk band before Refused, but Pink Floyd wrote The Nile song in 1968, for the movie More, and it's more 90's punk than any Sex Pistols stuff.
      Of course rap started post-disco and even Blondie "rapped", BUT, when the Beastie Boys came in, they broke everything and are still one of the foundation of Hip Hop, RapRock, Hardcore punk...
      Refused was "those kind of guys" with the underground screamo-whatever... And I listen to many genres, but often a few artists in each. I only listen to Bob Marley reggae, but find others one boring, I only listen to one "screaming" band, and it's Refused... (Oh, before there were Nirvana on some songs, but it was the same, Nir-fu-king-vana !)

  • @janeg6759
    @janeg6759 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I really enjoying this on a first listen. I may give it another listen. As always, I truly enjoy your reactions and the way you process your analyses. I think there was a song that I really liked and you didn't 😂. I don't remember which one though. Maybe I'll edit later. It was about halfway in.

    • @whatdothlife4660
      @whatdothlife4660 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I hope you listen to it on headphones. The production is immaculate.

    • @progperljungman8218
      @progperljungman8218 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Of course you really enjoyed it. We do 🙂

    • @janeg6759
      @janeg6759 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@whatdothlife4660 I didn’t listen with headphones but will do next listen. I was multitasking as I do with the longer videos. I know I miss some things and sometimes I hear something I really like and stop what I’m doing.

  • @jay_vero
    @jay_vero หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    hey man, i don't see any reactions to the canadian band 'choke'. they had a cool progression from speedy punk to post punk. its definitely one of my favorite bands.

  • @cameronberry457
    @cameronberry457 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    talking about the Djent quality, it's worth remembering that Refused and Meshuggah are both from Umea, Sweden. Maybe there's some uncatalogued cross-pollination.

    • @Spielix
      @Spielix หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Cult of Luna as well!

  • @pedrogab8151
    @pedrogab8151 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I got some Godspeed You! Black Emperor vibes from the last song.

  • @constructionbootgazer
    @constructionbootgazer หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Oh shit, the full album. Awesome choice

  • @Luke-zh5xe
    @Luke-zh5xe 14 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This album is in my top 10 of all time. It's weird and silly but still heavy and creative. Fantastic

  • @stuartfishman1044
    @stuartfishman1044 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    It should be mentioned that the title of the album references Ornette Coleman's The Shape Of Jazz To Come. Which is to say that the first album by Refused was meant to be as revolutionary for punk as Ornette's was for jazz. Seems like it played out that way.

  • @descantinginsalubrious
    @descantinginsalubrious หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Stank face is the only appropriate reaction. As a drummer, the drumming on this album just floors me. The individual choices are just perfect. A 100% groundbreaking record that ripped open the creative veins of hard music ...and spawned a lot of...ehhh...shall we say "bands inspired by."

  • @ilyas_claymore
    @ilyas_claymore หลายเดือนก่อน

    One of my favourite heavy bands!! 🔥🔥
    And please can you do some Failure? 🙏🏻

  • @l1fef0rm
    @l1fef0rm หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't like this style of music much, but I love this album.

  • @computerfile
    @computerfile หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The title is an homage to the album The Shape of Jazz To Come by Ornette Coleman.
    Please do the self titled ep by 90s hardcore band Burn.

  • @progperljungman8218
    @progperljungman8218 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You're right that post hardcore, and other styles where you can hear inspirations directly or indirectly from this, has become so much bigger. But it's still very rare to hear stuff very inspired by them to hit the "mainstream".... To me, "mainstream" is what most people hear and recognise as "good", not just any music that gathers a big crowd.

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's fair. They had their finger on the pulse for their specific sound.

  • @Choob_T
    @Choob_T หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Only halfway through but adding a quick comment before I forget: The songs are meant to flow into each other and indeed they do on the Vinyl and CD versions I used to listen to, it's just that most modern uploads on streaming services seem to be scuffed for whatever reason.

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Awww, that sucks. But it does answer my question about the weird track transitions. Now I gotta track down a CD so I can hear it as it was intended.

  • @chilipismysignature5031
    @chilipismysignature5031 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Holy fuck you're right this sounds a lot like afi at times. When refused said the shape of punk to come they influenced the homies. Like wow. They basically invented a genre.

  • @monalisa1234-g6j
    @monalisa1234-g6j หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    hi
    can you try
    iwrotehaikusaboutcannibalisminyouryearbook ?
    the song 7 for example
    it is a depressing screamo

  • @Mattvain
    @Mattvain หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Now you can't not react to the recent cover of Tannhäuser by Cult Of Luna. I believe they originate from the same city of Umeå, Sweden as Refused. CoL was even formed on the same year as The Shape Of Punk To Come came out

  • @samstenson1684
    @samstenson1684 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    yessss

  • @progperljungman8218
    @progperljungman8218 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't think they knew where things were going and having their ear to the ground musically. I think they just had a strong urge to develop and succeed wery well.

  • @chilipismysignature5031
    @chilipismysignature5031 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You're really good at this. Also you look like you could be my brother it's weird. Def nerdier tho lol.

  • @BenBythell
    @BenBythell 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I saw these guys for 4.5 songs on this tour. Dennis managed to headbutt a guitar and cut his head open sadly. They were awesome. The band killed a lot of my interest in early death/metalcore as they were just so much better at it.

  • @computerfile
    @computerfile หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Tannhauser sounds like it was influenced by Neurosis.

  • @whatdothlife4660
    @whatdothlife4660 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The most striking thing about this album to me is the liberal usage of wah pedal which is absolute blasphemy to "punk" purists. Also the bass tone and drum playing really tickle my pickle.

  • @progperljungman8218
    @progperljungman8218 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Punk doesn't necessarily stand for just "doing whatever you like". The other big thing is rebellion. Refused, being straight edge and very political, were surely more into waking awereness and revolting against what they perceived as a destructive and oppresive system. They also obviously didn't wanna get stuck in a punk routine, but develop progressive ideas musically as well.

  • @greggerypeccary
    @greggerypeccary หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I don't think "clairvoyant" is the right word... when this came out people who knew it said "this is the future".
    "Visionary" and "influential" are the correct words: Refused (and ATDI) are what all the crap bands later copied...

    • @CriticalReactions
      @CriticalReactions  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah, I agree with that. I've updated the title to be more accurate.

  • @Malegys
    @Malegys หลายเดือนก่อน

    Jesus, who recommended that awful band? whoever did, i hope they upped their Patreon game with you.

    • @kalelvigil1510
      @kalelvigil1510 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      “What is awful is what I don’t like. I’m quite astute.”

    • @n2nother
      @n2nother หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Weird place to say you have bad taste.

  • @wrythe777
    @wrythe777 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    very good album choice. excited to see this one