Real Lawyer Reacts to A Few Good Men (with Real JAG!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2022
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Runaway Jury
Please team up to do an episode of JAG
Hey could you do an episode on Minority Report? Or at least address the legal issues regarding the precognition aspect, that is central to that plot? I always found it weird that at the end of that film, they let EVERYONE go, when it seemed to me, that the precog warnings could at LEAST be viewed as an anonymous tip that the police responded to? And given the one example we see in the film (the introduction arrest), has the cops visibly witnessing the suspect about to stab someone, couldn't they at least be held for Attempt Assault/Murder? I just thought it was weird to just wipe the entire slate clean, when it seems we have precedent in our legal system for imprisoning people for stuff they tried to do, but failed. But Minority Report seems to just ignore that entirely. Always wanted a lawyer's take on that.
Boston Legal! Denny Crane!
A Civil Action with John Travolta
A former marine friend shared this with me: How do you know if someone is a marine? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
That is... probably more accurate than I ever knew.
Spent 28 years in. Never tell anyone I was a Marine unless I note a connection i.e. tattoo, tee shirt, cap etc...
To things I always hated about this movie is that the XO counter intell officer has to go on the run and disappears like he is some kind of secret squirrel. That is not what counter intell officers are like at all.
Also absolutely no Airmen at Andrews will remove a page from the tower logs showing aircraft take off and landing. In fact they would laugh at you.
Some may even make it a part of their username.
The same thing applies for a person from Texas.
Just make this dude a permanent cohost this is such a great dynamic
Devin is like the funny man goofball while Spencer plays the straight man perfectly
@@SuperNuclearUnicorn And like the best straight men, he's got a wonderful dry wit.
legalbros
Yes, please! Make him permanent. Love you two together.
Only works with military stuff.
"Just call them marines, God's Awful Little Children"
I laughed so hard on that self-description xD
Same 😂😂😂
'how would you describe someone in the navy'
(don't use any slurs don't use any slurs don't use any slurs)..... Sailor
@@aaronvanzile3824 They don't use sail ships, so the proper word is seamen.
@@gehtdianschasau8372it's a joke.
Not even that, because seamen are a species of sentient amphibious humans. There's a game about on the Sega Dreamcast.
During the table-read for Jack's scenes in rehearsal, apparently he walked in to the room in full military regalia and never broke character once. The other actors were also stunned by the fact that he delivered all his lines without the script in front of him, at the TABLE-READ! Jack is the real deal!
Dude is a different breed.
They don't give Oscars to monkeys .
For a few $million I'm sure I could put on a costume and shout some words.
EDIT: Sorry, no offence to Mr Nicholson. Of course there was a movie to make too.
@@jasonh.8754 For a few million dollars, I'd lie in bed all day.
Haha I miss actors like that. Tom Cruise has chops but is still always just himself, except in this movie apparently based a lot of his performance on David miscavige hahaha, that manic aggressive dick energy inspired directly from his favorite cult leader
As a physician, I'm going to point out that the claim, "a chemical reaction called lactic acidosis caused his lung to begin bleeding", is also nonsense. Pulmonary hemorrhage might cause lactic acidosis by causing severe hypoxemia (low oxygen levels in the blood), but the reverse cause-and-effect relationship is not a thing. It's a seemingly tiny detail that has always irritated me about this movie.
I have a lung disease, and hypoxia is always talked about. This is the first time I've heard of hypoxemia, yet that's actually what we're checking with a pulse oximeter from my new understanding of the distinction. After reading what you wrote, I looked it up the term to find the difference and one source said the terms are often used interchangeably in literature (I assume they did not mean technical.).
I'm a complete layperson who doesn't know anything, and I see the cause and effect, where if lungs are bleeding somewhere inside, that means that blood isn't getting to some of the places it needs to go. Those places that aren't getting blood aren't getting oxygen. When those places don't get oxygen, lactic acid forms and builds up because that's what cells do when they don't get enough oxygen (like muscles during a workout needing more oxygen than they can get, they form lactic acid right?).
But the other way around (like in the movie) doesn't make sense, because body parts not getting enough oxygen does NOT cause it to suddenly start bleeding. Otherwise every time I go for a run or go to lift, my muscles would start bleeding inside (ouch). Which, fortunately, isn't a thing at all.
Did I get anything right? :x
@@cykeok3525 You’re absolutely correct. Otherwise, gyms would be a public health hazard, because anytime some guy benchpresses to failure, they start bleeding out as if they have Ebola. 😂
Hollywood gets away with these inaccuracies because medicine is complex, and the general public isn’t going to understand these terms and concepts. Unfortunately this is how medical inaccuracies persist.
Kinda like that scene in Pulp Fiction where the guy is holding this syringe needle over his head ready to plunge it into Uma Thurman’s heart. No, that is not how one administers epinephrine or any IV medication. 😂. Giving that med the real way would have made for a boring, anticlimactic scene:
“Ok I’ve started an IV on her arm.”
“Here goes… Three! Two! On-“
“Hey why are you counting down like that? It’s just an IV push, dude.”
“Oh, right.”
Drug then enters bloodstream without fanfare.
“Uhh weren’t we supposed to start chest compressions beforehand?”
Uma Thurman’s character then dies due to medical mismanagement.
“Oh shit. Somebody go find some hydrofluoric acid.”
(It’s also a myth from Breaking Bad that hydrofluoric acid can completely dissolve a human body, yet perpetuated again in Umbrella Academy season 3.)
@@anthonynorton666 --- HI sir! By training, I'm a registered nurse.
The suffix, emia, refers to a substance in the blood. Hyperglycemia, for example, is an excess amount of sugar (glucose) in the blood.
Back to your situation. Hypoxia, refers to low oxygen (o2) in the tissues. As you know, we measure that by using a pulse oximeter. However, hypoxemia refer to low amount of o2 in the blood. In order to determine the amount of o2 in the blood. Yep, that requires the dreaded arterial stick.
I hope that helps.
Thank you! Someone else caught that! I thought I was the only person who heard that and went No no no no no that isn't how that works.
I'm liking these collaborations with lawyers from different fields
Agreed! I think it’s a great job to get different perspective and specialized opinions. I particularly like Spencer who seems to have a great sense of humor and they have great chemistry.
I wanna see him bring on a public defender 😂
Two heads are better than one. The bouncing back and forth is fascinating. Bruce Rivers next!
Spenser has a sarcasm and comic timing that is unimpeachable. It’s great. I also agree that collabos are great. “A Few Good Men” is a perfect movie to discuss. “God’s awful little children”. Hilarious.
@@MultiRanman I never even knew unimpeachable was a word thanks for teaching me something new
His "YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID" at 10:10 killed me
It was like a canon blast!
Devin had so much fun with that
@@Nebechadnezzar Bro let his dormant inner grunt out for a moment. 😂
I served with the marines, he wasn't acting.
“What do you call someone in the Navy?” As a Sailor I completely expected the Marine to take a jab at us LOL.
Right? I thought at the very least he was going to say "a squid".
Men of the Sea! 😂
As a child of two Coast Guard officers I was thoroughly shocked that a full on punch wasn’t thrown 😂
Squid is the standard. But Corpsman get the distinction of Doc.
Fun fact: my school runs a mock trial program and we just had a case where ex police officer turned mall cop Lieutenant Toni Jessep tased a patron of the mall “in self defense” and the mall was being sued for negligence in hiring Jessep. Anyways, in Jessep’s affidavit, there is a paragraph that is a parody of the “you can’t handle the truth” speech with lines such as “you want me at that mall.” And “you NEED me at that mall”
To prep for the case, we were shown this scene and everyone playing Jessep was told to take notes.
🤣🤣🤣
Love the parody...
Son we live in a world that has malls
And those malls have to be guarded by men with tasers
Who's gonna do it? YOU? YOU, food court table cleanup guy?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possible fathom.
You weep for mall patrons and you curse the mall cops.
You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That patron's tasing, while tragic, probably saved lives, or at least the loss of that package of hotdogs he had stuffed under his shirt.
My existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves merchandise.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in stock rooms, you WANT me in that mall, you NEED me in that mall...
@@CarlWithACamera lollll. You’re a lot closer to the actual wording than you think 😂
@@juliameindl5721 😂
That student gets bonus points for strictly entertainment value.
"You walk around carelessly enjoying the security of that mall and than complain about the manner in which that security is provided! You have that luxury because of men like me!"
Nicholson shot that scene all day long, even doing his end of the conversation when he wasn't on camera. (Not all big actors are that generous.) Rob Reiner was blown away with all the energy Nicholson was putting into it and asked, "Jack, how do you do it?"
"Bob, I'm an actor. I like to act."
The dude's a legend for a good reason :D
I was a propmaker on that film and was there for that scene. Pretty great to watch him do it over and over with the same intensity and dynamic!
Know what you mean some big actors or more of has bins coasting off the lastest movie and just cashing in a paycheck while doing a favor to a friend
The best Jack Nicholson quote ever comes from a story Jay Mohr tells about being out with Jack. A woman comes up to Jack and ask "Mr. Nicholson, would you like to dance?
To which he replied "wrong verb"
@@neverlistentome I heard that same story at Skywalker as, "Wrong verb, sweetheart. Wrong verb." I believe the woman was a journalist.
The scene when he holds up the (Code Red Mtn Dew)
and screams "DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED" made me lose it.
Same! I almost want to make it a gif and share it with a friend of mine who is obsessed with the drink.
Jack NIcholson in A Few Good Men is like Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs. Few minutes of screen time, but owning every minte of it.
The "16 hours of Silent Drill" Line nearly had me fall out of my chair.
Not a real Marine Drill team but former Texas A&M cadets... good but not great...
On the 17th hour they march into drill garage for a refuel and lubrication. Anyone who's racked up enough hours becomes a Major Problem and is tasked with dealing with General Maintenance in said garage. The Silent Drill has therefore been seen as a good way for dealing with General Maintenance. In spite of this, General Maintenance continues...
The funny thing is, because the marines in DC primary duties are ceremonial, they actually do a shit ton of silent drills, and one of the spots they do practice at IS in front of the JAG headquarters at the Washington Navy Yard. So while he was mocking this, it's actually accurate.
Watching him internally scream when Devin called Marines “soldiers” was fantastic
Devin's getting a "code red"
The second time it happens there is a visible pupil dilation. He's like, "Devon. I'm going to slap you at some point. You won't know why. It may seem like for a different reason. But this is the real reason."
I always equate this mistake like someone going to a hospital and grouping all the doctors, nurses, technicians, etc. by calling them medics.
I saw that!!!! 😁
@@dkleener That's actually a really good "civilian" analogy. Gonna try that out next time I have to explain this.
The scene where Pvt. Pyle is held down and beaten in Full Metal Jacket is probably the best example of what this movie refers to as 'code red' ever shown in film. In the Marine Corps at that time, this was referred to as a 'Blanket Party' and, believe it or not, is documented to have occurred at USMCRD Paris Island on several occasions. There has even been a case of a United States Army Veteran being diagnosed with PTSD in 2015 for a 'blanket party' he received during basic training in the late 1970s.
Jesus...
It seems intense until you understand the mental context then it is more of a kind act actually. These are life and death situations they are headed into and people can just not be suited for that but still be in your group that will cause those around them to die rapidly.
in the australian navy it was called contact councilling, but was banned as bullying in the 90's. which just made the Petty Officers all the more creative in their punishments. like shaving on parade minus shaving cream and water. when one of my fellow trainees turned up to parade without shaving. ouch.
I think Gitmo being a sleepy posting back then was pretty much the point, along with Jessup being entirely too invested in The Mission (TM) and essentially creating a cult built around himself ; It probably took root on the base *because* it was a sleepy posting in a post-cold war world where the marines were starting to feel useless.
Santiago wasn't a problem because he was incompetent, he was a problem because he didn't share the cult's values and didn't *want* to share them. Ask anyone who's ever tried to leave Scientology how that usually goes.
That was my view. Gitmo wasnt the gates of Mordor. Take it seriously, but it ain't 1963, or 1973 or 1983.
It seemed like all the characters were made to represent different types of bad leaders. Colonel Jackoff represented the Narcissistic bad leader, taking offense at anyone who fails to adequately worship him, and sleepy Gitmo helped make that point. Lieutenant Coffee represents the bad leader who got his job through inheritance, just wants to pick up his paycheck, and would be told he is "Quiet Quitting" if the movie was made more recently. Lieutenant Kendrick seems to represent the bad leader who is still mentally in his middle school bully days and is on a power trip. Demi Moore's character would strenuously object to the idea that she represents the incompetent leader who was kicked upstairs, according to the Dilbert Principle, into a position where she can tell more competent people to do the work.
Aaron Sorkin was a struggling playwright in New York. His sister was serving as a Navy JAG attorney in Washington. One night in a phone call, she described an interesting case where a young Marine at Guantanamo Bay was accused of assault against another Marine and the legal question was if the accused was ordered to do this and, if so, did the accused Marine have the obligation to refuse this illegal order. Sorkin found this fascinating and turned it into a "courtroom drama". He embellished a LOT for dramatic purposes, but it worked, the play got produced, was a hit and was made into a hit movie.
Well, real proceedings would bore an audience senseless, military or civilian.
The interesting part would be, was the order unlawful in a way universally understood by service members of that rank and experience level? Was the command environment conducive to allowing such violations of the law?
It was also a curiosity that she was assigned a murder case having no experience. She basically proceeded the same as the movie, for the same reason. Why would the case be given to a junior JAG officer?
@@casemcdonald2152 Ken said "assault", not murder.
@@spvillano So in others words, an audience couldn't handle the truth?
@@spvillano well not necessarily. High profile cases like Johnny Depps or the trump hearings have millions of watchers. Sure they are high profile examples but ud be surprised. I watch random cases all the time.
I went into my law internship knowing no one would ever act that way in court…until they did. A DA ended up yelling at a witness because she was defending her credibility and rightfully so. Everyone was appalled. It ended up making the trial longer than it needed to be
I think the better way to say it is 'nobody is supposed to do it'...
A lot of people are drama queens, even in law. A lot of people like to hear themselves speak, you know, narcissists.
It does always make me laugh when people go "tHaT wOuLd NeVeR hApPeN eVeR eVer!"
It's not supposed to happen, but you'd think these people don't know how human beings can be
I saw two lawyers on the same defense team getting into an argument in front of a judge once. It was an off docket(?) hearing for one of the lawyers to leave the defense team. I wonder why?🙄
and you didnt file a complaint with the bar? If not well... youre part of the problem.. as is the judge
One of my aunt's is my only personal experience with someone who is a lawyer. My favorite thing about her is actually how nice she is as just a human-being to talk to and hang out with. Watching you two go back and forth gave me the same good vibes. Much love from Zimbabwe.
The Mt Dew clip in the very beginning literally has me in tears. 😂
The sudden “you’re GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID” then immediate laughter was great
I was half paying attention and I was like, "what's so bad about Mountain Dew: Code Red?"
@@scottwpilgrim I WAS TOO
You just incited an actual spit take out of me with the animation of Tom Cruise holding up a bottle of Mt. Dew, yelling at whoever ordered the Code Red.
Same here
I SHRIEKED. That was glorious
That was inspired! Great work!
A hearty snort from me.
Strong start lol
Fun fact: While this video shows a brief clip of the Villanova University drill team, the people portraying the marines in the opening were actually the Texas A&M University Fish Drill Team. Since the Marines did not authorize any participation in the film (due to the portrayal of the Corps) the filmmakers could not use an actual Marine drill team and instead asked the Fish Drill Team to perform.
Technically, these were former Fish Drill Team members ("fish" is A&M slang for freshmen) and not that year's actual drill team.
I joined the Marine Corps in 1996 and at that point in time hazing was still very big and I guarantee you situation’s similar to what is in the movie did occur. Also, if you want a good idea of what Boot Camp was like in Paris, Island South Carolina in 1996-97 go ahead and watch full metal jacket boot camp scenes. There were a lot of things that were just like that, Sans rifle murder/suicide.
One of my co workers was a Marine one girl in her company got roughed up.
I don't even personally consider myself Old Corps. But when I went through MCRD San Diego in 1981 things were a little different than they are now.
I was sent flying across the Quarter Deck more than once in boot camp initiated by a Drill Instructor.
I can fly...
Ouch!
@MauraWattam-dl4uu
0 seconds ago
I served in 93. The Marines were tougher and everything you stated is correct even for the women. Women Marines were treated harder because we were taught everyday “male Marines” will not support us and need to be tough as nails. Funny, when I entered the fleet I was tough as nails but my counterparts treated me well and only a few were disrespectful and disgraced the Marine uniform when we worked side by side with one another. Semper Fi!
As a civilian I cant really wrap my head around the benefit of hazing in any armed forces setting. Who does it serve? It seems like a recipe for destructive chaos if rules and proper chain of command and conduct are not being strictly adhered to. But what do I know. As far as Hollywood depictions I’m partial to the 1986 movie ALIENS and those were obviously fictional interstellar marines, and some of them were pretty dumb and reckless.
@@EastSide-qc5oy Hazing was mostly done to bring people back in line who aren’t following the rules and/or who aren’t putting the rest of the unit first. It can also help weed out people who are not fit for service. If you can’t instantly and instinctively follow orders and put the Marine Corps and your unit first, you will get people killed and/or die yourself and quite possibly ruin whatever operation you are part of. Most people are not truly ready or do not really understand that. The corps uses 90 days to break down who you are and turn you into a Marine. People learn in different ways, repetition is one of the main methods they use. In that short of time you can only teach/retrain someone so much. It is actually amazing how much they teach you in so short of time and how long it stays with you. I still remember how to treat a sucking chest wound, 25 years later, even though I’ve never done it, As well as so many other things. It is an Extremely intense experience, it needs to be in order to work effectively in such a short time. I don’t know what they do now, but I do know hazing was a very effective tool when I was in boot camp. It wasn’t the main/only thing that they did, but it was what they used when other things didn’t work. It made recruits; focus, work faster and harder, be more concerned about doing things right, be concerned about how/what your fellow recruits are doing, or it made them quit and give up. It rarely made people quit, but it quite often brought them back in line. Sometimes that would also take repetition though. It was by far not the most of what you experienced in Boot Camp though.
For the record: The movie was based on actual events. Aaron Sorkin's sister Deborah was one of the 4 real-life Navy JAGs who defended the Marines at Gitmo accused of assaulting a fellow Marine. Capt. David Iglesias was another JAG lawyer, more known as an improperly fired US Attorney.
When they put the Colonel on the stand, he eventually said "Something like that" to the question of if he ordered the Marines to discipline their own (eg Code Red). It was way less dramatic than in the movie.
Of course, it *was* still admitting on the stand, under oath, that you gave them that order to start with.
Fun fact, the guy involved in that real life trial disappeared and was never seen again. I’m serious
@@KumaoftheForest He must be at Gitmo
@@Rawhideceastwood More likely he was fish food.
@@KumaoftheForest he disappeared, but they found his body a month or two later. Never found his killer. Name was David Cox.
Spencer: Spends entire video ripping apart how completely unrealistic everything in this movie is
Also Spencer: "Eh, A- for realism"
Yeah, that's a ridiculous rating given the rest of this video. If the film got a lot of little details right, as he says, I would have liked to have known what they are.
@@essentialatom Yeah I bet a lot got lost in the editing. Unfortunately.
@@alanhersch4617 … or… and hear me out… most other things in the film are reasonably close. The list would be longer of the details they got right.
@@robertt9342 that is exactly what we are implying. In fact if they didn't cut out the positive and just didn't talk about it I. The first place, that is almost worst. Cause getting a good mix of both is important
@@alanhersch4617 . Maybe…but how long did you want this video to be? Also, there are plenty of examples where they say it’s good.
When I was in navy boot camp a "code red" was referred to as a "blanket party". Some of the Company Commanders encouraged them without specifically asking for them.
That's awful.
it did happen in my recruit training. one member refused to wash his bed sheets. it annoyed his squad mates so much that one night they snuck into his room, held his blanket down and hit him with hard plastic flip flops (thongs in aus jargon) to get him to change. but it was a once off and not encouraged as hazing as mentioned was considered bullying.
@@gregorturner9421 Was it reported (to your knowledge)? If so, what was the consequence?
Something tells me that hazing continues in the military.
@@tonis5140 it was never reported as it was considered punishment by his room mates and was a couple of hits each before he was made to shower and wash his sheets. He got the message and behaved after that. It wasn’t sanctioned or ordered just 3 guys annoyed at him dragging them down and went no further than that. I have seen military react to Bullying though and it is not tolerated what so ever (Australian defence had to fight hard to change the culture of bullying in their ranks)
the fact that we make jokes like "never piss off the judge" just shows that justice is truly not blind. In a perfect world the judge's emotional response to anything is not supposed to hurt or help your client.
It's not emotional response. You piss off the judge by not following decorum and doing shit that edges the letter of the law. If you keep doing that the judge obviously isn't going to think you have a really good case if you resort to that sort of shit. Yes, obviously justice isn't completely blind but compared to a jury trail an actual judge is impartial by absolute miles.
@@chaalbaaz429 how is anger not an emotional response? The internet never fails. Lol.
……so it is emotional response?🤦🏻♂️
we are not robots. judges cannot force themselves to be unfeeling automatons, and we’re very very far from any fantasies of appointing robot judges. if (while knowing that the judge is a human being with emotions) you decide to piss him off, you’re not a very good lawyer or defendant.
It’s an important guardrail in the system. Of course, it’s human and imperfect. But no set of rules yet devised can function without human judgment.
I really like Devin for not tackling this movie without an expert. I think he’s bright enough to have researched it and told us all this from his perspective but I think it shows his respect for the importance of getting information from real, primary, expert sources. Not Reddit or FB. I wish more people at least the slightest hesitation when using the influence their celebrity gives them to share their opinion as if it were fact.
To be fair he has tackled it in one of his early videos.
I seriously doubt he would research anything on Reddit or FB though.
I love History, but it's absolutely rife with people failing to adopt the perspective you've outlined here. Because the subject matter is easy to phrase and describe, or at least much easier than the Natural Sciences, Law and Mathematics; folk make the mistake that brushing up on a subject is enough to present it, rather than consulting with someone who's performed considerable first-hand research of primary sources. Devil's always in the details.
You know he's legit military when everytime he talks about service there is a nice "not-so-sublte" layer of salt on every word haha
All service members just become the salt over time.
Timestamp pls?
@@Stellar-Cowboy Start of the video?
@@joelcastro-reyes1667
at some point, salty becomes crusty
I love his dry sarcasm and the fact he doesn't make eye contact with Devon.
This episode of LegalEagle is tremendously entertaining and informative. Great guest and wonderful banter. Thank you Spencer for your appearance.
I have no idea why, but 0:24 made me laugh harder than almost anything in years. A few good men is one of my favorite movies and Tom Cruise holding mountain dew and red face yelling just got me dead. Thank you for that.
You asked what Tom's skills were as a lawyer if he couldn't do research or witness prep. They established early in the film that he was known for plea bargains, and that after so many years in the Jag office he had never seen the inside of a courtroom. His whole arc was that of a guy that always took the easy way, and progressed to working his ass off to win the case.
He was in the JAG for only like 9 months in the movie. They say it at the beginning
Right. In fact, he even realized mid-way that the reason he was assigned to THIS case was because his bosses EXPECTED him to plea-bargain it.
The second part is he might be buttering up his coworker to get help. He didn't say he was bad, just that his coworker was better.
Pulling off satisfying plea bargains is not an easy feat, at all, especially if/when you have some really driven opposing forces (seriously, Dawson and Downey are the first guys to go “hell, no, I’ll take my chances in court” Kaffee ever met?). The guy Kaffee meets when establishing that he’s good at pleas really wants to throw the book at Kaffee’s client for alleged drug possession (it was really oregano) and only lets go because he doesn’t wants to spend five months of his life fighting every little hassle Kaffee tosses at him. Imagine if it had been one that decides to go “bring it on”.
You are nevertheless correct in that this is Kaffee’s character arc.
He didn't win the case though, if I remember correctly they were still stripped of their ranks and dishonorably discharged from the military. Which is probably the second worst outcome they could have possibly been given. Or maybe i'm thinking of a different movie... i've seen this scene plenty or times but never saw the movie.
As a former military lawyer I will state that if you shout in court the judge will shut you up. There are a lot of differences between UCMJ and civilian law. The Marines are part of the Navy. The JAG is spot on. Conduct Unbecoming only applies to officers and the standards are extremely low.
Quick question. Any idea why the prosecuting attorneys were Marines and the defense attorneys were Navy? Or is that kind of assignment done on a case-by-case basis?.
@@iandhr1 With UCMJ prosecutions/defense, the branches are immaterial. The prosecutors choose the defense councils. I was the youngest officer in the division, newly assigned. That's why I was picked. I won the case before realizing that I was supposed to lose it. The judge was appointed with very little notice for his first time on the bench. The defendant was extremely lucky. I referred to Marines as jarheads among other things. The more you know the less impressive it becomes.
It cracks me up thinking about the guys I served with getting charged with Conduct Unbecoming. We were super laid back on the decorum so I've had plenty of dumbass drunk adventures with my NCO and OIC. It would probably make a marine have an aneurysm when we were training and used short rank/nicknames to address each other. Crazy how different the military experience can be depending on branch and rate
Your comment about Article 134 is incorrect, at least in regards to the USMC. The USMC will absolutely hit you with a violation of Article 134 (Conduct Unbecoming aka General Article.) Any time you do something that they don't like and feel like charging you for, they will use Article 134 to charge with you Conduct Unbecoming a Marine.
@@nokindred you are absolutly right on correct. Artical 134 is the caveat for punishing people who haven committed any violations. There is no justice in the UCMJ. You hit the nail on the head brother.
I have watched this video as well as your other videos, over and over. I love your collaboration with Spencer and I would love to see more with you two together. Keep up the great work! Thank you for all your content!
If this film has a flaw, it's that it leaves out Kaffey's takedown of Jessup from the original play in the last scene where he calls him a madman who thinks he's above the law up to and including the US Constitution. "That's the truth, isn't it, Colonel? I can take it."
Holy crap I'd watch this show religiously if that cat was a full-timer. The dynamic between you two is a riot.
Agreed
I agree also.
His... "You're goddam right I did!" Made me snort-laugh
Deffo. The bits about the fence are hilarious
Find any reason to have him as a guest. He's awesome and your rapport is great.
My dad is a retired Master Sergeant, and I cannot count the times he really started giving someone the business for calling him a soldier instead of a marine. You got off really easy there, Legal Eagle. That made me laugh.
This comment reminded me of something I once heard a long time ago, that ARMY stands for "Aren't Ready for Marines Yet."
Sergeant
Seems silly to me. You fight and die at the behest of a nation: youre a soldier
David Eddings fan???
@@freakymoejoe2 A wet soldier...
Your dynamic in this video is fantastic. Well done sirs, well done.
Spencer's sarcasm is just so so beautiful.
It's a good movie but for me the best scene, that I'll watch over and over again isn't the "you can't handle the truth" part but the bit before where Caffey manoeuvres the Colonel into a contradictory trap.
"If you gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed, then why would Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?" I love that bit.
Agree, that's probably the most clever bit of the film. However, it wasn't enough to win the case. Some of Jessup's men had already talked about the time that one of them brought food to the guy who was being punished on "barracks restriction," so there was already hard evidence that Jessup's men sometimes don't follow orders.
So while Kaffee got a nice win there catching Jessup in a logical mismatch, he knew he had to keep pressing for the admission. The jury was not going to go against the Colonel, multiple people tell Kaffee that there are forces beyond his control here that make the Colonel more or less untouchable.
@@Phyrre56 True, but it's not so much the contradiction itself, it's the play on the ego of Jessup. He would have had to admit that he doesn't actually run a tight ship in a court room full of high ranking officers.
That is great, but for me it was always when he takes the rules book and asks him to point to the section that talks about the mess hall to show up the other lawyer
@@Phyrre56 That always reminds me of The Caine Mutiny with the strawberries thing.
Awesome movie. But I guess it's complete bs. 😊
I was fascinated by a minor detail of the film - when they start preparing the case, Kaffee asks for half a dozen boxes of black pens and half a dozen of red pens. It seemed to me a lot more stationery than they were going to need. But early in the film Kaffee forgets to bring a pen and his commander pushes one across the table to him - perhaps wanting a glut of writing utensils is meant to show his increasing professionalism.
I agree, or it was just a sign that he never had to write anything before because his main occupation seemed to be playing softball ...
A pen is part of your issued gear and you are required to have one on you at all times unless limited by operational requirements.
In bootcamp they literally hang the pen on your dogtags so you always have it.
That's not a joke. It's in the Blue Jacket's Manual (Navy's Core Instructing materials).
Great catch!
Or, that he loses a lot of pens.
Mitch Hedberg: "I bought a $7 pen. Because I always lose pens, and I got sick of not caring."
Best. Legal. Movie. *EVER.* My hubs is retired mil. He phrased it “It’s faithful & respectful (and spectacularly-written) enough, and that you give the little liberties it takes a well-earned pass.”
I absolutely love your perspectives on this. I represented myself(which I know hearing that probably causes you to cringe) in a family law matter when my ex was trying to get full custody of our children, even though they were almost adults. I won’t go into the gory details but sufficeth to say I quashed my ex’s arguments and won out the majority of the time. I learned alot about how a court room works, the do’s and dont’s, and received a crash course in matters of the law. I understand that “Family Law” is its own beast, but due process straddles the entirety of our judicial system. I love when you boys remarked “don’t focus on what the other party is doing, just build your case and focus on the facts! Also, don’t get emotional and piss off the Judge or Commissioner.” Great advice and counsel, counselors. I loved your humor, knowledge, and perspectives on this movie. It is indeed a classic! Wether you love courtroom drama or just enjoy watching great actors, great directors, and great writing unfold before your eyes. You guys are the Shiznit! I look forward to watching more of your reviews. God bless! Holla back!
Note the ever-so-subtle eye twitch when Devin truncates the term “Marine” with “soldier.” The only thing that rivals this in terms of heinousness is referring to someone as a “former Marine” or “ex-Marine.” Also, if “conduct unbecoming a Marine” was a thing, the Marine Corps Ball would no longer exist.
"Also, if “conduct unbecoming a Marine” was a thing, the Marine Corps Ball would no longer exist."
Nothing says "military culture is toxic" like the truth of this statement.
@@puckerings To think that when I was young, I had a huge respect for all military people because for some reason I thought they respected a code with high moral values.
Ah, so young and so naive, I almost miss that blissful ignorance...
I dunno I think they would avoid discontinuing the Marine Corps Ball, just because the jokes about Marines no longer having Balls would be too much.
I think the term you were looking for was conflate instead of truncate.
Did you say heinousness or hilariousness. Because it's genuinely hilarious to me the cult indoctrination is that strong.
Quote of the Day: “Let’s get into ‘A Few Good Men’.”
You can’t get more iconic after this line 😂
Phrasing, Legal Eagle. Phrasing...
That doesn't sound right...
It is Pride Month, after all.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely awesome cut, and I'm glad he left it in the video!
This was AWESOME! You two are really funny together, and presented this video in such a playful, yet informative way!
There was actually an Unsolved Mysteries case that dealt with exactly this, since the movie is based on the events that one Marine officer went through himself on the terms of the Code Red hazing.
Trial lawyers: "You're not supposed to object to *everything*."
Appellate lawyers: 😑
Amber Heard’s lawyer: Hearsay
@@KumaoftheForest Johnny Depp's lawyer: "Absolutely Not!"
@@bubbamaster3116 Objection! Speculative!
*Looks at Amber Heard VS. Johnny Depp.*
@@KumaoftheForest A megapint of hearsay!
I was in the Marine Corps from 85-93 and I never heard of a “code red” until this movie. We called them “blanket parties”, but in the context of “blanket parties are not allowed 🚫”. There were plenty of better, more effective ways of improving unsat Marines without using physical violence.
yeah, in my time in the service... no one ever called it "Code Red". I wonder if the term was ever used in the Marine Corps.
Yeah, in the army it was called "blanket parties". But if you were a playwright or a script writer you'd never go with that as it doesn't sound bad ass or threatening.
@@Insipid42 Yeah as a civillian it sounds horrifying and I get that talking about blanket parties in a military trial would surely be taken very seriously, but seeing Jack Nicholson scream passionately about throwing blanket parties would just feel utterly ridiculous to me 😅
I think the filmmakers made a good decision. Clearly military personnel would interpret the term a very different way, so keeping the accurate terms would be arguably straight up misleading. I guess it's just a translation, in a way?
Ah yes, Extras (basically an extra shift) was popular in operation Harmony roto 2. I know one fella was up 24 doing two extras in a row.
@@Insipid42 depends if they’ve recently seen Full Metal Jacket (thinking the scene with pillow cases, bars of soap and holding down the corners of a blanket to restrain)
My favorite comment as prior Navy towards Marines:
Bulldogs. We carry them around and we release them when we need something destroyed but can't safely use artillery.
I was an officer in the ADF for 10 years and i can say with confidence that EVERY soldier in 99% of Western Armed forces are REQUIRED
to immediately report ANY order they consider to be illegal. No exceptions, regardless of rank.
A little snippet from the movie's opening scene when the Marine Corps Band is playing you will see a trombonist, Gunnery Sgt Dale Fredericks march past the camera. He was killed in a carjacking on June 11, 1993 7 months after the film was released. I did not see the movie until significantly later and instantly recognized him. He worked for me in a part time civilian job and was a good friend who is still missed.
Oh wow, sorry to hear. He will be missed by those who knew and loved him.
R.I.P.
Rest in Peace Sgt. Fredericks. I hope to see you on the other side. Thank you for your service......
A very sad way for a Marine to die
Actually, in Australia lawyers can shout at witnesses. This is usually when a barrister has no case. This shakes up a defendant and hopefully gives the barrister something to work with.
Judges know this tactic. So when a lawyer does this everyone is aware it is a desperate tactic.
Interesting.
Damn, I live in Australia and I didn't know that. Here's hoping I don't ever end up in a court room.
Also if found guilty punishment can include a giant boot to the arse.
Why is everything scarier in Australia? 😭
@Le Potato It is so much safer to live in Australia. a lot less guns.
the zoom in on spencers face when devin calls the marine a soldier is priceless
I've seen it 100 times and I still get goosebumps during that scene as I did today when it was first played....one of my Favs
Everything Spencer says is loaded with the most deadpan, dry sarcasm, and I'm living for it.
Seriously! It took me a minute to clock that he was being sarcastic.
@@josephsherby You can see the internal eyeroll Spencer says every time Legal Eagle calls Marines "soldiers".
"God's little, awful children." Not even 5 minutes in and I this is going to be a good one!
A soldier is the man or woman who fights for their government and carries the weapons, risking their life in the process. Hate when people try and change the definition of words to boost themselves up. Just admit they’re soldiers ffs.
@@saikido1 You are so wrong. Soldiers and servicemen and women do not fight for just the government.
The Mt. Dew Code Red was perfect 😂
I watched this movie for the first time 1 or 2 years ago and I can say that I, in fact, did watch it because of the "YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH" moment and it did live up to expectations.
Excellent acting.
Heard on some discord server or something from a former German Heer (army) soldier.
He said during his training his unit was asked to take a piece of paper and write "I am an idiot".
In his squad, only one wrote instead "The Sergeant is an idiot".
The entire squad was ordered to follow this rebellion's order for the rest of the day, because only he knew that he should object an illegal order. That's part of the training.
(and when another guy asked why that's illegal, the former soldier explained that the order was in direct violation of German Basic Law's provision of "respecting every individual's human right and dignity" and stuff. So that order "wasn't only illegal, it's actually unconstitutional".)
Imagine Germany's military having more respect for human rights than the US's.
@@KutWrite I think it's more due to their military history perspective, considering how often "I was just following orders" was a defense at Nuremburg. The intention is to teach the troops if they get ordered to due something highly inhumane like say, go round up people into slave labor camps, the troops should understand they are obligated to say "No".
@@Jertude1981 Right. Meanwhile the US ignores the Nuremberg principles, e.g. in the untested "vaccine" pushed onto the public, now including infants.
Sounds like a consequence from WW2
Well aren’t they sweet.
I was watching a “making of” This movie and the person being interviewed said that they did a few takes of the, “You can’t handle the truth!” and following speech, and Jack Nicholson is so good that he delivered that speech the exact same way every time. He’s always been my favorite actor.
Right - per Kevin Pollak (IIRC) Nicholson kept nailing the entire thing, every movement, every word. Director Rob Reiner walked up and said, "Jack, look, we're just getting angles here; you don't have to go all out" and Nicholson replied "Rob - Rob - you gotta understand, I love to act!"
That was a totally awesome video. I'm hooked on @LegalEagle's content! Love from the UK.
Fun movie, but in addition to the all-encompassing legal silliness, take Santiago (kid who was killed): He was having obvious symptoms of a cardio problem of some sort, but he was restricted to barracks duty with "no runs longer than 5 miles!" LOL - to begin with, he'd have been undergoing tests, probably in Miami, and secondly, he wouldn't have been running ~at all~ even the implied easy distance of 5 miles (actually a serious run)!
That should be the tagline of the movie: "Its so unrealistic. But its SO GOOD!"
You want the movie!? You can't handle the movie!
You CAN'T HANDLE realism! Because you know - deep down, you don't talk about this at parties - but deep down you WANT stupid, entertaining popcorn cinema, with big explosions, hillarious mummies awesome oneliners and legal malpractice at every level...
"Lets get into a few good men."
In 1992, that'll get you discharged. This was before even don't ask don't tell.
That won't be the only thing getting discharged...
@@ninjabreadman1993r Yeah, I saw that coming.
(And the next one too)
DADT still got you discharged
And I oop…
You guys chemistry ⚛️ are on point !I really enjoyed all your commentary
I’ve waited a really long time to make this comment lmao
I love how the intro to this video is recognizing that even though the law might not be 10/10 it captures the emotion completely. I’m an apologist for movies that make me feel something.
Man, that Marine's face every time the lawyer said "soldier": priceless. He looked like he was going to hit him.
I cringed each time lol but you can't really get too mad at civies. We're just kinda wired to correct people sometimes from the day we get outta boot camp.
I mean, JAG vs grunt is a world of difference.
@@SorcererVtuber for some reason, to all civilians, any enlisted person in any branch is a soldier! Us Navy guys hate being called soliders too :) I was a sailor goddamnit! Specifically a submariner. Or you might know us as "bubbleheads". :)
"A soldier is a member of an armed force." Marines are specialized soldiers. In the words broadest definition. So, its not wrong.
That soldiers have their own language and can be pretentious snow flakes is a different matter.
He wanted to. I wanted to.
10:13 Well, he shouts like a Marine officer, so I guess that's confirmed.
Amazing video, great guest. Super entertaining, well done!
definitely love how he introduces spencer like a witness in court
That “you’re goddamn right I did!” At 10:14 was spot on 😂
I want to know was that planned or not!! XDD
He became Heisenberg
@@szurmatpl The way he hesitated and changed what he was going to say makes me think Devin didn't tell Spencer beforehand but he just went with it lmao
@@szurmatpl I don't think it was planned but it was obvious what Devin was trying to do there lol
“We don’t have a lot of expectations for conduct of lance corporals and privates” actually, you expect a level of debauchery, hence the Good Conduct Medal 😂
(S)NCOs get the GCM as well.
He's right though, we were always up to no good. Every Friday ended with a short speech about what not to do, and where not to be. Which we promptly did anyway.
@@kevinphillips150 they also get the most DUIs
When I was in the Air Force I dated a marine from LeJeune, went to visit a few times. Holy wow, that was a wild place💕 Had to go everywhere with a small security contingent, evidently females were scarce around those parts, lol. Never seen anything quite like it, unless throwing chum to sharks counts. lol Never had a bad experience, and still friends with some of them all these years later. Craziest bunch of guys I've ever known, and I love them like a fat kid loves cake.
@@TartarSauceBeans Its worse than that. Our BN commander had DUI's as in multiple.
I was a witness and screamed at the Lawyer for the way he was leading me to say things I never saw or happened.
I loved this movie and always wondered how accurate it was. Thanks for this and I really enjoyed it! 👏👏👏👏👏
Not the most realistic legal portrayal but some of the best dialogue put to paper.
Aaron Sorkin never misses
A movie or show with a realistic trial would be incredibly boring, and like 10 hours long. There's no way they could adhere to every tedious rule of due process in a courtroom.
@@JakeKoenig The 1976 TV Movie “Helter Skelter” about the investigation and trial of Charles Manson and his followers for the 1969 Tate LaBianca murder spree did a good job of using actual court transcripts to tell the condensed story of what went on in the courtroom. Although the movie did have the benefit of telling the story of some shocking and colorful people being put on trial so the risk of it being boring, especially for the times, was pretty low. To your point they did have to slog through 8 months of trial proceedings to get to the interesting parts.
My favorite part was "I don't know what kind of unit you are running here"
"And the witness will address this court as Judge, or your honor. I'm quite certain that *I've* earned it"
😂 always loved that interaction. Dudes like “hey, know your station bro” 😆
@@CronoXpono"You're on my base now, I'm not on your base. I'm the CO here."
@@NJGuy1973 LOOK AT ME, IM THE CAPTAIN NOW!
My FAVORITE moment...20:03 "What? What?? Why would the judge...". Thank you for your service, Sir. You seem genuine n down to earth, thx 4 sharing ur knowledge n experience w us!
"Let's do it lets get into a few good men" I LOST IT 😂
This is the best damn line of this video 🤣🤣🤣
As a Marine I found this laugh out loud funny multiple times. This is some of your best work. Well done Sir…
so, not a soldier then?
"So why is the Navy trying this case?"
Marine Lawyer: "It happened on a Navy base so the Navy has jurisdiction."
Real Answer: "The Marine Corps is a subset of the Navy and there's no way any Marine would ever bring that fact up, even if directly relevant."
Didn’t ask
Marines=Crayon Eaters
@@phoenix21studios Nobody asked you, either. Yet here you are.
The Nuremberg Trials (1946) pretty much established that following orders was no defense for violating human rights.
The atrocities committed during Vietnam forced the U.S. Military to implement an entire training regimen during boot camp on the concept and understanding of "lawful orders", far more so than the results of the Nuremburg Trials.
Don't pretend that it wasn't a matter of the victors assigning the judgements they saw fit, there is nothing objective established about it given it has no relation to US military law.
@@Nikotheleepic Found the Alt-Right here.
@@AxelQC "The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats." - Aldous Huxley.
"Befehl ist befehl"... translates basically as "Orders are orders."
Didn't work at Nuremberg.
This was genuinely fun! 😂
This episode is a CLASSIC! You two are hilarious and SPOT ON!
They all looked good in their uniforms. Often that is a detail lost on many filmmakers, but Kevin Bacon looked phenomenal. That back and forth you two did with the "Have you ever ordered a 'Code Red?" was funny as Hell.
Nicholson may have only had to work 10 days on that movie but he was lean and carried himself like a Marine officer. He definitely put in some prep work.
If that's true, then it's even more impressive when you consider that they had no support from the United States Armed Forces (the Marines in the silent drill at the beginning are played by ROTC, not enlisted men)
And Kiefer Sutherland. Shaved his head just for the show. Guess his spiky mullet didn't go with the uniform too well
You know, as someone born in '99, I watched this movie from the perspective of someone who never really experienced the world before 9/11, and so I just sort of took it for granted that Guantánamo Bay was this dark scary place where terrifying people do awful things hidden behind a veneer of government oversight. So of course all this posturing in the movie made sense to me. I never really considered that, when this movie was made, Guantánamo was nothing special--just a sleepy outpost leftover from the Cold War days, before the War on Terror reared its ugly head.
That line from Captain Ron (early '90s Kurt Russell film) is so much funnier now!! ("C'mon, Guantanamo! Wake up!") 😄
I was born in 81, and I’m telling you, our country was a very different place before 9/11. Same for the world, in general too!
The original play that the movie is based on was released during the Cold War ('89), so GTMO was more relevant then. Ironically, as you described, the base would be relevant again in a different way 12 years later.
@@jigafox America is a different place post 9/11 for sure, I'd say the most significant impact it had on Britain was that Irish-Americans suddenly lost interest in funding the terrorists (Provisional IRA) that had been murdering british civilians for 100+ years. As for the rest of the world, I'd say the biggest impact has been America doubling down on its self appointed world police status.
Gitmo was a sanctum sanctorum. Most people had no idea what it was like, and in fact a lot of people didn't even know it still existed. When I would tell some friends I'd been there, they'd ask "is there really still a base there?"
Excellent film, when dialogue and acting was believable. I'm sure it's not what usually happens in a courtroom but what a film.
That courtroom was probably the most pressured and tense debate in whole Washington.
I had the displeasure of being part of a hazing investigation in the Marine Corps. The primary goal was to be the furtherest away from the highest ranking person in the room. There are people in those investigations who have the power to absolutely wreck careers.
Edit: part of the hazing charges included senior Army officials referring to Marines as soldiers. So yes, referring to Marines as soldiers is worse than murder.
It's a bit interesting to a foreigner like me, because the Navy can be referred to in two ways where I am (Norway). One is Sjøforsvaret (literally Sea Defense) and the other is Marinen (The Navy). So a marine is marinesoldat, meaning marine soldier. Often confused by media with Marinejeger (Marine jaeger/ranger or in your version, SEAL.
In my country, I think it's just maritime self defence force (MSDF), no separate navy vs marines. One team, one fight.
I _hate_ soldier brainwashing.
And Marine brainwashing is extra 'prone to bash your face in for not being tribe.'
Roided out animals.
@@kossakken In some country, like here in Indonesia, the Marines is part of the Navy. In the US, USMC is its own branch of the military. And yes, here we can all call non-civilian personnel of the armed forces "prajurit" (= soldier)
@@TunjungUtomo the Marine Corps is it's own branch, but it receives funding and direction from the Dept of the Navy.
During my 911 activation, we had a JAG brief. When he asked "Are there any questions?" I asked "How many of you investigations ended in a shootout?" He laughed and replied "I could never finish a single episode! I lose more tv sets trying!"
As cheesy as it is I love jag man so it's bad it's good
This was very entertaining. Y’all should do Periscope Down next. Not a court room movie, but some interesting questions regarding war games, hierarchical orders, walking the plank, and hijacking one’s own submarine.
Outstanding analysis and commentary from these two gentlemen.
Literally 30 seconds in and you've got Tom Cruise holding Mt. Dew on a silver tray, and it's too much.
Too much is never enough
"Did you order the Code Red?" with Cruise holding a Mt. Dew had me in stitches. I knew the video was only going to get better from there.
"Let's get into A Few Good Men.... That didn't sound right."
Those were my favorite parts of the video...
Loved this analysis..love that scene!
Remember watching this on rotation with my JAG Office and our Brigade JAG. Great times.
That code red dialogue was spot on, short of being jack nicholson himself, that “you’re god dam right I did” was as good as it gets
On a side note, “As Good As It Gets” is another great Jack Nicholson movie. It’s one of my favorites.
I see what you did there...
My favorite part is you can see Legal eagle jump back. I probably would too if I heard a marines parade ground shout that close.
I work for the Defense Department in a section that is almost entirely civilian employees. One time, to help with some backlogged work, we brought in some national guard personnel. We were meeting with them in a conference room. When our (acting) department director, who was a commander in the Navy, walked in, the guardsmen immediately jumped to attention and the highest ranking one shouted, "officer on deck!" It caught the rest of us off guard.
Huh, I thought that was only for use at sea?
That’s so cool
@@SimonBuchanNz there are plenty of serving or post-navy dorks who can't help but refer to every wall as a "bulkhead" and every stairwell as a "ladder." having some ultra-dork shout ATTENTION ON DECK for a civilian/veteran, in a civilian context, etc etc surprises me very little.
@@br2k Did you miss this part: "who was a commander in the Navy..." When your commanding officer walks in, unless he directly orders it *not* to happen, you call "Attention on Deck". National Guard people also might have been told by *their* chain of command to fall on the side of caution to not cause offense.
@@Edcognito "commander" is just an O5, it doesn't mean they're THE commanding officer, dork. Someone with first class crows as a PFP should know that, maybe quit LARPing military because you'll sound silly to actual veterans and active duty.
Ive always wondered where the dramatic act of delivering opening/closing arguments from the well of the courtroom stems from. Obviously it's a theme made up somewhere in theatre history, but i wonder when it first appeared. You see it in almost every courtroom drama.