Gale could be “just an owner”, sitting on a beach in Hawaii and sipping dry martinis everyday. But no, he’s giving constructive classroom material, with significant data logging and explaining it like the heart of a teacher. The “engineer” in him clearly shows. Way to go Mr. Banks. One of the few legends of the Hot Rod era.
Just bought a 2022 6.6 Duramax 2500. My 14 year old daughter and I are watching this series. She has expressed a interest in engineering and we both are learning so much. Thank you for passing this knowledge on to us. Every high school in America should show this series and teach basic physics and engineering. When young students see how math and physics can improve efficiency of a system it gives them motivation to study the sometimes boring basics. Thank you !!
Some things discussed in these videos you know, some you don't, some you never thought of before. All of which makes these great videos and thank you to Gale Banks and his team for taking the time, and spending the money to show us. For me the very best thing is that they take out that "well maybe it's doing this, or maybe if we did that" guessing game we've all done tuning something we want to squeeze a little more out of for our use. Nothing is more useful than solid information, tests and results, all so you can make your changes from there and re-test.
Watching several Banks Power videos on this channel I learned that Gale Banks is a genius. He rates above Smokey Yunick as automotive genius. He tackles all his projects as if he is a scientist not an engineer. His detail and record keeping is next to none. Long Live Gale Banks. I can't wait to see the next installment of this series as well as the diff cover series. As he broke the chassis dyno I can see Gale building his own dyno from scratch or at least improving the one he broke. If he does I hopoe he makes a series out of it.
Hi Mr. Banks, If you don't have feedback on your butterfly valve, the pressure drop will vary with airflow. Meaning that your test will provide degraded results vs. the same engine sitting at a higher elevation. In the mountains, there's less air, but demanding more air won't drop the ambient pressure any at all. If you look at PSIA between the butterfly valve and the rest of the system, I would anticipate a drop in pressure as RPM/Air demand increases. You might add an actuator to the butterfly valve to maintain a constant pressure differential between the dyno room and the downstream side of the butterfly valve.
They're all about "seeing is believing, so watch this!" Banks is painfully slow. I'd quit watching engine Masters if they drew 10 minutes into 10 hours. (Yes, I know I'm here but damn his click-bait titles!)
The hyperbole is appreciated, but that is the exact opposite of what he is trying to do. He wants to take all possible factors to 9.9 and NOT blow up the motor :)
@@NissanPRO4X Exactly. Gale's not interested in just stupidly cranking it to 11 and watching it blow. He wants to intelligently max out all variables equally, taking it to the REAL max.
Many cars and trucks are sucking the cold air from between the mudguard and the fender, not from the engine compartment. Even-dough the air-filter box is in the engine compartment.
I would like to see those tests done at the altitudes I normally drive: 5000 to 10000 feet with an occasional 11000 feet (Monarch Pass). For every 1000 feet increase in altitude engines lose 3% of their power. Got to love the Colorado Rockies. Excellent information...Now I know why semis have issues climbing the passes.
Gale Banks, you are a gift to the tuning world, and thank you for being so awesome at explaining how this all works. I have left comments thank you before, but I can not thank you enough for helping me with my own tuning, even if its just on an old Honda B-series engine. You have helped me fill in the blanks to make the changes needed to a friend's car to make it run better and better.
Very illuminating. I knew that restrictions or hot air would hurt things but the Turbo inlet temperature really shows how bad a poor setup can be and even though there is a power loss,there is a lot more heat stress on the engine and not even a better intercooler will help.
This is why I have such love for double-acting steam engines. Every stroke is a power stroke! These internal combustion engines are just so _primitive!_
Reminds me to watch that traction engine tractor pull video again. Amazing how they can just feed more steam into that engine and it just pulls harder. Every time one thinks it is about to die they open the valve some more and it takes off again. That's why the little red engine could. ;)
@@philbox4566 Watch this one! Gigantic steam engine that requires a "small" steam engine to start it. Granted, the "small" engine probably makes as much torque as this Duramax ha! I'd really like to visit and see it run someday. th-cam.com/video/KhlJp1VZMB8/w-d-xo.html
Mr. Banks, your very interesting to listen to. I've learned so much watching your videos. Thanks for taking the time to teach us the knowledge that most of us would have to spend thousands in school to learn.
Wow I feel like I'm at school I love this series. You are teaching so much in this iv whent back and watched some parts of the other ones just because of the information you are giving away. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and helping others understand... cant wait to see more soon please keep up the awesome work 👍👍👍👍 huge thumbs up
Gail, I’d like to know why you haven’t done anything with the 6 stroke engine? From all Ive read on 6 stroke engines, they strike me as being your “holy grail” engine. As you were said, you can only have so much cylinders pressure before something breaks. But how much energy is actually extracted from each fuel/air charge if your expansion stroke isn’t long enough to make full use of it? The 6 stroke engine is a lot closer to fully utilizing the expansion potential of the fuel/air charge. As I understand it, the fired pistons each cycle through all 4 stroke, 360° out of phase. The secondary piston only does the last two cycles each 360° of crank rotation, as the fired pistons exhaust into the secondary piston. The decouples the compressed and expansion ratios of the engine, enabling the designer choose them separately. This allows the engine to benefit greatly from oversized combustion chambers and turbocharging. Using an oversized combustion chamber and turbocharging, a low compression, high expansion, engine configuration can yield significant performance. The engine mitigates a lot of compression losses, while taking nearly full advantage of the expansion potential of the fuel-air charge with an expansion ratio that double or more then its compression ratio, and doing so along a cumulative 360° expansion stroke across the two cylinders. Something to consider.
Thank You Brother Banks for bringing the basic concepts to a focused nugget of digestible information and reshaping my precepts on boosted ICE's!!!! Your revelation is now MY Revelation and you have my admiration and undying gratitude!
I live in southern Arizona 105+ ambient days are not uncommon in the summer months. I see TONS of people running "cold air" intakes that suck in the underhood air. That's when you know they know nothing about what IAT can do to rob power.
Here in the Midwest I've been able to drive an old school turbo car from -20F to 108F. The difference is stunning, even from 70 to 100 the car feels like it's gasping for air.
i like how this guy is on top of the best tech to run a engine most older guys only like carbs i can work both but i find an engine with a modern ecu easier to do diagnostics on then a carb and a carb never runs perfect you have to tune it all the time
14 years in the Bakken oilfield. Our trucks have an E kill valve in the intake line. Why? Around oil wells, there is always the possibility of natural gas escaping and getting sucked into the engine intake. Any engine, including diesels, will run on natural gas. I once drove an old Freightliner hot oil truck with an N14 plus engine back to town after running out of diesel on propane coming from my 500 gallon LPG burner supply tanks through a wash hose I had connected to my burner line and run into the intake tube. The E Valve is a butterfly valve just like you have in your intake line with a control button in the cab. If the engine sucks in oil well natural gas and begins to run away, someone can hit that E Kill valve control button and that butterfly valve will slam shut. This is extremely important on a hot oil truck as the large TEE 5,000 psi triplex pump runs off the truck engine and transmission. If the engine runs away on natural gas and the operator is pumping through the triplex, the pump may pressure the discharge line including the kelly hose and blow it up. If that happens on a high pressure well and there is no check valve at the wellhead, you have a very very dangerous situation with a possible well blowout, explosion, fire and significant injuries or death.
Gale, Every video you make your destorying another product on market...first the Diff covers then the cold air intakes. Lmao Thanks for taking time to do all R&D and showing everyone the results these are great data points. Keep em coming!
I fondly remember the old P80/1 V10 in formula one. Although the production model doesn't come close to the 18,000 rpm P80/1 I continue to run a 2010 Mr along a new Audi R8. Thanks for your solid engineering videos.
Isn’t the intake air temperature dependant on efficiency of intercooler. Sure placement of intake is important I agree. and wether it’s a true cold air, or just an exposed filter to heat the intake air temp is going to change to whatever the intercooler temp is.
It's a matter of terminology. In this video, intake air is defined as being at the inlet of the air filter. So the intercooler is not in play at that point. The intercooler most definitely affects the intake manifold temperature, and I expect that Gale will get to messing with that as he puts on a bigger turbo and raises engine speed.
You should have installed a windshield wiper motor/window motor and a throttle position sensor on the butterfly to move it on the fly and to monitor the % opening. Crancking stuff by hand is old school lol few grid heater from cummins 6bt could help getting hot air too. Or just a drive by wire throttle lol
@@bankspower I hope you didn't get offended by my "old school". Your vids are very interesting,you are not old or irrelevant at all,like your methods. I'm just a bit too excited when i see that peoples have so much ressources and abilities.
Two questions come to mind . How much parasitic loss is there pumping exhaust gas out though the turbine ? How do you get around the heat generated by the EGR on modern diesel engine's?
I live at 4500’ in the high desert of Nevada and the first time I took my LB7 to near sea level, I was at a light next to a buddy in a rental car. The light changed, we both punched it, and the rear ended of my Duramax hopped all over the road before accelerating like never before. 😀😀😀
5m 11s The exhaust turbine is NOT driven by exhaust gas being pushed out of the cylinder by the piston. The exhaust turbine is driven by wasted combustion escaping from cylinder when the exhaust valve is opened DURING combustion. At high rpm, there is more air fuel content in the cylinder that can be used during the power stroke. ie the combustion duration would be longer than the crank angle time it takes from the injector squirting, to the exhaust valve opening. So.... At high rpm / boost, when the exhaust valve opens there is an explosive pressure wave released into the exhaust manifold. This is relayed to the turbine wheel which drives it. The higher you rev your engine the shorter your power stroke is in milli seconds BUT... The higher you rev your engine, the more boost and air fuel volume you have, and the longer you need for it to burn. The only time you get "spent exhaust gas" being pushed out of the cylinder by the piston is at idle when the power stroke phase in miliseconds is at its longest and the combustion time in miliseconds represented by the air fuel volume is at its shortest. Idle is the only time you will NOT see flames or escaped combustion in the exhaust port.
Just think about if Mad Max used a turbo with cold air intake instead of the belt driven super charger. The gas stealing road warriors would have had no chance catching him! G'day G'night! 😜🤯
Gale, this may be a little off topic but I think it may be a good video for the future. I have a question that may skew the numbers but I think a lot of people that have the L5P's in their trucks would really like to see. Now before I ask this question I would like to note that you are using a dynocell vs actual driving conditions. That question is this. How much do the numbers change when you factor in the RamAir hood on the L5P trucks at 60 mph in nominal conditions? The intake air, I know from my truck, never sees the under hood temps and I think GM really knew what they were doing when they added that hood to the truck. Does it make that much of a difference in regards to testing in a dynocell?
I’m really digging all this testing and math behind it. I mostly already knew the whys but have a better understanding of the how. BUT, I’m still patiently awaiting a disastrous “Firepunk Cummins” scale of destruction of this L5P. Dying to see the overhead limits GM designed into it. Thanks for continuing the very educational videos.👍🏻👍🏻
@@racrx7 As of May 9th of this year the Moraine Ohio plant was still awaiting government approval to begin production and these engines are still being shipped in from overseas. When production begins they will be essentially a new engine which usually means there will be a number of issues that will have to be worked out and I would not touch any of the first production run engines
Deadon, please list a source for your information. The 6.6 L5P is and has been built in Moraine Ohio. The 2.8 Dmax is built in Thailand. and the latest L5P is designed by GM engineers. So how can you say GM has nothing to do with it?
Hey Gale, can you explain what the difference is between J1349 and the stoicheometric density of 14.7. That’s always what I’ve based my perfect air fuel ratio off of, not 14.4. Just trying to understand if there’s a difference between the two
So a turbo is better than supercharger? Even though the super does has direct parasitic loss, but has positive scavenging ratio and no back pressure acting on the cylinder. Numbers comparing the two would be cool.
I live in Las Vegas so like many in the desert southwest, our air temperatures average much higher than most. NASCAR for example runs about a dozen races a year in hot weather in these areas, just in one series, not to mention all the other NASCAR series plus NHRA, etc., in just these areas. I would think all that you are talking about in terms of air density, even for those series that don't allow turbo or supercharged air management systems would be critical. Interesting.
Thousands of Diesel powered trucks (not only commercial but including recreational use trucks) drive from Southern California northeast up the I15 to the Vegas Valley 24/7. That long uphill pull from almost sea level over the mountains at up to approximately 4,500 feet altitude and down to approximately 1,800 - 2,200 feet in the valley must create enormous changes for the engine to deal with. It would be interesting to log a round trip up and over, and analyze it with of course improvements in mind.
We've made that trip dozens of time with various diesels and logged them all. Just have to figure out who to make an interesting/educational video about it.
This makes me a little concerned about my filter under the hood on my new 2022 Duramax, did GM address this by the hood scoop and inclosing the filter so it can get cool air, or should my truck have the filter in a different spot, thank you, Mike
How about a blower that is powered by a lithium polymer battery......I know that is not practical. But, think of it like this. Supercharger creates high pressure, and.... this high pressure is then used to chill the intercooler as well as increase intake pressure. I’m not really sure how much power it would take to spin the supercharger....I know it takes a lot.
Hi Gail so I'm formative as always , can I ask a couple of questions , I totaly get that outside engine bay cold air intake is best for power and torque , presuming that the feed is placed on the front face of the vehicle as the car or whatever is driven forward there should be a volicity increase and therefore pressure increase in the intake air pressure , so bearing that in mind are u better with multiple small tube to collect the air and increase the ir pressure because forcing moving air into a small tube will increase its velocity , or one large intake but with lower air pressure ...?, can u at some point cover intercooler pipe diameter s for the same reason , u have an amazing wealth of knowledge that I would love to tap into , many thank jon.
Love these videos, but did chuckle a bit when he went to say the name of the third stroke. Sounded like we was trying not to say it (for obvious reasons). Either way fantastic video Gale!
Humidity is already controlled in modern vehicles. The cold air intake just needs to pull air from inside the passenger cabin. Might "suck" a little for the passengers. I wonder how long the AC system could keep up.
While RPMs are high the stroke is very short. In the end the piston isn’t moving much faster than a V8 with a 4in stroke at 6500-7000 rpm and with a piston that’s much much lighter.
Great series:-) But a question, i understand that they simulate high altitude with the butterfly valve, but did they also simulate the heat under the hood?
Sorry, but parasitic loss do exist in turbo's, but in a different way, pumping losses exist in turbo chargers with a much smaller exhaust housing compared to a SC variant and NA engines, turbos do cost engine performance, especially when guys want to run smaller turbos for response in petrol performance cars. In fact I had this exact problem when I was running twins on an RB28 at 33psi, the exhaust could not get out quick enough and was turbo choked in a huge way, the only way to solve it, a new single turbo with a much larger housing. But even still, turbos inherent design still see's a significant increase on piston load through the exhaust stroke compared to NA and SC engines, it is the nature of the beast. SC'ed engine are definitely worse, i do agree with that, because you are locked into the static HP robbing cycle through the whole 4 stroke cycle at a particular percentage (depending on the SC choice). Turbo chargers are just dynamic parasitic loss devices, but admittedly much less than a SC, but to say you "get it all" is simply not correct. There is not much I can ever say negative about Gale, but this is one time I simply have to disagree partially here.
Reminds me of the first trucks I worked on in the early eighties UK, there’s a tractor unit had a 212hp 12 litre straight six naturally aspirated, but the air filters were mounted on the rocker covers with the intake ducts cast in, so the motors taking heated air from behind the radiator, dragging it through oil bath air filters and then reheating it through the rocker covers 😖😖. The engines ran so hot that on a long hill climb sometimes the fuel rack would stick wide open. The installation of the engine is as important to power and reliability, as the engine is itself
In a forced induced engine could you use a Doble air filter setup, with the first being a desicant filter and after a normal air filter, don't know if it would be worth it
When comparing turbo and mechanical blower and how one pulls power during power stroke and one during exhaust stroke. It makes sense if you have a single cylinder engine but with V8 don't you pretty much always have each stroke happening at the same time so how does it make any difference?
A mechanical blower will drain power from the crank throughout the 4 cycles/2 revolutions of crank, as it actually reduces inertia slowing down the crank, no matter how many cylinders there are firing at any given time. Where as a turbo is using exhaust pressure/heat which has no parasitic drain on an engine, and which usually is a waste product with no practical use, only prob with a turbo is you need more fuel than a NA motor, due to increased PSI of oxygen in the cylinders.
@@fullboostturbo1 But there is no exhaust pressure (much, of couse some is needed, otherwise there would no be flow at all), if you don't have a turbo blocking the exhaust flow. So the pressure you have before the turbine is not "free waste energy" IMO because you are creating the pressure by restricting the exhaust flow, and higher exhaust pressure means more work needed during exhaust stroke to push the piston up. Heat does make some difference here - because exhaust temperature lowers when it goes through the turbine, that heat energy must have been somehow transferred (to make boost), even if I dont fully understand how. But that's not what I was asking.
If they were to turn off the dyno cell ventilation, and seal the room airtight, i wonder if the running engine could pull enough of a vacuum to break the windows...
The exhaust stroke is a parasitic load of the power strokes of other cylinders. The increased back pressure caused by the turbo increases that parasitic load. Therefore, the supercharger parasitic load "problem" is not as bad as implied in this video.........just sayin' :)
Those HOT AIR intakes are funny, usually the stock intake system makes better power with denser air on a gas car. The intake system in my Passat is better then any after market option available. N/A 2.8 30v
In the final sets of figures, I would like to see the actual high-attitude outcomes. The lower air density at altitude should give interesting turbo-out numbers compared to low altitude.
@@xlegit13 yeah... whilst highlighting the second set of figures he says at 22:55 that the 4000ft ambient air density would be the same as the lower altitude, but his chart at around 21:00 clearly shows they are different, hence my desire to see actual figures for engine performance at 4000ft. I understand on the first chart that the final two figures are the same, but that does not mean all of the second set of figures would be, especially when he makes an inaccurate claim about ambient density being the same. Don't get me wrong, I actually like his vids and the simple, scientific method he uses to show power losses / gains; but, claiming the same outcome based on different figures is not right.
Hi Gale, that was a very interesting video with a lot of information. Would it be possible to develop a program for pressure vs density vs elevation? And a controller to regulate the butterfly, so as you go from sea level up in elevation you can have the same performance in a cold air intake and not KILL THE ENGINE!!!
Gale could be “just an owner”, sitting on a beach in Hawaii and sipping dry martinis everyday. But no, he’s giving constructive classroom material, with significant data logging and explaining it like the heart of a teacher. The “engineer” in him clearly shows. Way to go Mr. Banks. One of the few legends of the Hot Rod era.
Just bought a 2022 6.6 Duramax 2500. My 14 year old daughter and I are watching this series. She has expressed a interest in engineering and we both are learning so much. Thank you for passing this knowledge on to us. Every high school in America should show this series and teach basic physics and engineering. When young students see how math and physics can improve efficiency of a system it gives them motivation to study the sometimes boring basics. Thank you !!
well.....did she get her learners permit for her drivers license?
God bless Gale Banks and his absolute love for sharing his knowledge about engine performance. You can just feel his enthusiasm. Thank you sincerely.
Why bring the wizard of oz into this?
Some things discussed in these videos you know, some you don't, some you never thought of before. All of which makes these great videos and thank you to Gale Banks and his team for taking the time, and spending the money to show us. For me the very best thing is that they take out that "well maybe it's doing this, or maybe if we did that" guessing game we've all done tuning something we want to squeeze a little more out of for our use. Nothing is more useful than solid information, tests and results, all so you can make your changes from there and re-test.
Watching several Banks Power videos on this channel I learned that Gale Banks is a genius. He rates above Smokey Yunick as automotive genius. He tackles all his projects as if he is a scientist not an engineer. His detail and record keeping is next to none. Long Live Gale Banks. I can't wait to see the next installment of this series as well as the diff cover series. As he broke the chassis dyno I can see Gale building his own dyno from scratch or at least improving the one he broke. If he does I hopoe he makes a series out of it.
Hi Mr. Banks, If you don't have feedback on your butterfly valve, the pressure drop will vary with airflow. Meaning that your test will provide degraded results vs. the same engine sitting at a higher elevation. In the mountains, there's less air, but demanding more air won't drop the ambient pressure any at all. If you look at PSIA between the butterfly valve and the rest of the system, I would anticipate a drop in pressure as RPM/Air demand increases. You might add an actuator to the butterfly valve to maintain a constant pressure differential between the dyno room and the downstream side of the butterfly valve.
I wish Engine Masters could present information like Mr Banks.
There aren't any engineers on engine masters.
They're all about "seeing is believing, so watch this!"
Banks is painfully slow. I'd quit watching engine Masters if they drew 10 minutes into 10 hours. (Yes, I know I'm here but damn his click-bait titles!)
Those guys are morons
Did anybody else notice the new Banks rear diff covers on the bench behind him?
The dyno tech knows he has to be patient while gale gets to talking.
smart guy, if Gale was talking I would be listening too!
He's getting paid, I would too. :)
Well worth getting patient for 😉
You mean knows WHEN TO LISTEN to a Master
Thank you Mr. Banks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Crank it to 11 and let parts fly.
The hyperbole is appreciated, but that is the exact opposite of what he is trying to do. He wants to take all possible factors to 9.9 and NOT blow up the motor :)
@@mrobinson4210 In part one within 30 seconds he states he want to learn and eventually kill it. He's going to run it until he breaks it.
@@NissanPRO4X Exactly. Gale's not interested in just stupidly cranking it to 11 and watching it blow. He wants to intelligently max out all variables equally, taking it to the REAL max.
@@mrobinson4210 But....but.....after all the numbers are in, and everything is well documented.....crank it to 11 as a send off!
Many cars and trucks are sucking the cold air from between the mudguard and the fender, not from the engine compartment. Even-dough the air-filter box is in the engine compartment.
Keep up the great videos thanks to the Banks engineering team 👍
I would like to see those tests done at the altitudes I normally drive: 5000 to 10000 feet with an occasional 11000 feet (Monarch Pass). For every 1000 feet increase in altitude engines lose 3% of their power. Got to love the Colorado Rockies. Excellent information...Now I know why semis have issues climbing the passes.
Gale Banks, you are a gift to the tuning world, and thank you for being so awesome at explaining how this all works. I have left comments thank you before, but I can not thank you enough for helping me with my own tuning, even if its just on an old Honda B-series engine. You have helped me fill in the blanks to make the changes needed to a friend's car to make it run better and better.
Very illuminating. I knew that restrictions or hot air would hurt things but the Turbo inlet temperature really shows how bad a poor setup can be and even though there is a power loss,there is a lot more heat stress on the engine and not even a better intercooler will help.
I feel like I waited a year for ep.4 ! I check every day haha
Love the series
This is why I have such love for double-acting steam engines. Every stroke is a power stroke! These internal combustion engines are just so _primitive!_
Reminds me to watch that traction engine tractor pull video again. Amazing how they can just feed more steam into that engine and it just pulls harder. Every time one thinks it is about to die they open the valve some more and it takes off again. That's why the little red engine could. ;)
@@philbox4566 Watch this one! Gigantic steam engine that requires a "small" steam engine to start it. Granted, the "small" engine probably makes as much torque as this Duramax ha! I'd really like to visit and see it run someday. th-cam.com/video/KhlJp1VZMB8/w-d-xo.html
smith jones this was amazing seeing the inside of a engine at a massive scale.
Mr. Banks, your very interesting to listen to. I've learned so much watching your videos. Thanks for taking the time to teach us the knowledge that most of us would have to spend thousands in school to learn.
Loving this series. L5P is a monster!
Wow I feel like I'm at school I love this series. You are teaching so much in this iv whent back and watched some parts of the other ones just because of the information you are giving away. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and helping others understand... cant wait to see more soon please keep up the awesome work 👍👍👍👍 huge thumbs up
You're a stud Gale. Love watching your videos. Thank you Sir. Keep 'em coming please.
Gonna enjoy the journey to the BOOM! Thanks for imparting your knowledge
I sure wish I worked with this guy! Thanks for passing the knowledge on Mr. Banks. Data doesn’t lie!
Gail, I’d like to know why you haven’t done anything with the 6 stroke engine? From all Ive read on 6 stroke engines, they strike me as being your “holy grail” engine.
As you were said, you can only have so much cylinders pressure before something breaks. But how much energy is actually extracted from each fuel/air charge if your expansion stroke isn’t long enough to make full use of it? The 6 stroke engine is a lot closer to fully utilizing the expansion potential of the fuel/air charge. As I understand it, the fired pistons each cycle through all 4 stroke, 360° out of phase. The secondary piston only does the last two cycles each 360° of crank rotation, as the fired pistons exhaust into the secondary piston.
The decouples the compressed and expansion ratios of the engine, enabling the designer choose them separately. This allows the engine to benefit greatly from oversized combustion chambers and turbocharging.
Using an oversized combustion chamber and turbocharging, a low compression, high expansion, engine configuration can yield significant performance. The engine mitigates a lot of compression losses, while taking nearly full advantage of the expansion potential of the fuel-air charge with an expansion ratio that double or more then its compression ratio, and doing so along a cumulative 360° expansion stroke across the two cylinders.
Something to consider.
Thank You Brother Banks for bringing the basic concepts to a focused nugget of digestible information and reshaping my precepts on boosted ICE's!!!! Your revelation is now MY Revelation and you have my admiration and undying gratitude!
I live in southern Arizona 105+ ambient days are not uncommon in the summer months. I see TONS of people running "cold air" intakes that suck in the underhood air. That's when you know they know nothing about what IAT can do to rob power.
David Whitten
SW Az. Here. I see 115+ and 7% humidity.
Here in the Midwest I've been able to drive an old school turbo car from -20F to 108F. The difference is stunning, even from 70 to 100 the car feels like it's gasping for air.
i like how this guy is on top of the best tech to run a engine most older guys only like carbs i can work both but i find an engine with a modern ecu easier to do diagnostics on then a carb and a carb never runs perfect you have to tune it all the time
i laugh when i see peoples "HOT Air Intake" LOL
But some people are not about power, but the economy.
@@wobblysauce hot air does nothing for economy, up to a certain point the more efficient an engine the more power it makes as well!!
I know, but that is what some say.
@@wobblysauce gotcha
I can’t stand it either. They keep calling it a cold air intake but it’s not taking in any air from anywhere but the hot engine bay...
I Precious that Mr Bank is educate all of us, I wish I had you as our teacher 20yrs ago in school 👍
Mr. Banks. Truly a legend
14 years in the Bakken oilfield. Our trucks have an E kill valve in the intake line. Why? Around oil wells, there is always the possibility of natural gas escaping and getting sucked into the engine intake. Any engine, including diesels, will run on natural gas.
I once drove an old Freightliner hot oil truck with an N14 plus engine back to town after running out of diesel on propane coming from my 500 gallon LPG burner supply tanks through a wash hose I had connected to my burner line and run into the intake tube.
The E Valve is a butterfly valve just like you have in your intake line with a control button in the cab. If the engine sucks in oil well natural gas and begins to run away, someone can hit that E Kill valve control button and that butterfly valve will slam shut.
This is extremely important on a hot oil truck as the large TEE 5,000 psi triplex pump runs off the truck engine and transmission. If the engine runs away on natural gas and the operator is pumping through the triplex, the pump may pressure the discharge line including the kelly hose and blow it up. If that happens on a high pressure well and there is no check valve at the wellhead, you have a very very dangerous situation with a possible well blowout, explosion, fire and significant injuries or death.
Gale, Every video you make your destorying another product on market...first the Diff covers then the cold air intakes. Lmao Thanks for taking time to do all R&D and showing everyone the results these are great data points. Keep em coming!
Thanks MR. power for caring about us thanks again guys
I fondly remember the old P80/1 V10 in formula one. Although the production model doesn't come close to the 18,000 rpm P80/1 I continue to run a 2010 Mr along a new Audi R8. Thanks for your solid engineering videos.
Isn’t the intake air temperature dependant on efficiency of intercooler. Sure placement of intake is important I agree. and wether it’s a true cold air, or just an exposed filter to heat the intake air temp is going to change to whatever the intercooler temp is.
It's a matter of terminology. In this video, intake air is defined as being at the inlet of the air filter. So the intercooler is not in play at that point. The intercooler most definitely affects the intake manifold temperature, and I expect that Gale will get to messing with that as he puts on a bigger turbo and raises engine speed.
Kudos from the NSA Mr. Gale Banks. I in fact learn much from you Sir.
You should have installed a windshield wiper motor/window motor and a throttle position sensor on the butterfly to move it on the fly and to monitor the % opening.
Crancking stuff by hand is old school lol
few grid heater from cummins 6bt could help getting hot air too.
Or just a drive by wire throttle lol
Good idea but no need for automation. It was built just for this video.
@@bankspower I hope you didn't get offended by my "old school".
Your vids are very interesting,you are not old or irrelevant at all,like your methods.
I'm just a bit too excited when i see that peoples have so much ressources and abilities.
5:11 notice on the bench behind gale. There is a possible sneak peek of the Banks rear diff cover
#True
Two questions come to mind . How much parasitic loss is there pumping exhaust gas out though the turbine ?
How do you get around the heat generated by the EGR on modern diesel engine's?
I'm just hanging out, waiting for the new diff covers design... I'll keep waiting
That 20,000 rev engine sounds like an EMD 567 engine running at full 800 revs.
How does this not have 100,000 views it is nerdy but he’s the man and soo much knowledge to share
I see some pretty fancy lookin diff covers in the background a few mins in 🧐😍
We don't know what you're talking about. 🤣
Never heard a supercharger referred to as a “parasite” 😂😂😂. Mr. Banks does a great job explaining why he does what he does best!!
Nice to see someone so truthful in the industry.
I see diff covers ;) where is the rest of that story? Nice video do
MY FIRST THOUGHT WHEN HE WENT TO THE SHOP!!!
I live at 4500’ in the high desert of Nevada and the first time I took my LB7 to near sea level, I was at a light next to a buddy in a rental car. The light changed, we both punched it, and the rear ended of my Duramax hopped all over the road before accelerating like never before. 😀😀😀
my s&b cold air ,sucks thru fender somewhat, they offer a scoop also, cold dry air for the win,love ya gale
I could sit through engineering lectures with this guy and be totally engaged in these conversations.
Houston experiences 72 degrees for about 5 seconds in March.
Milwaukee today has a high temp of 73° and a low of 56 ° 🌞
Heat and humidity sounds like hell to me.
Did I spy in the background a properly rounded differential cover with a Banks name on it?
Yeah Whatabout them absolutely beautiful differential covers ???? I need one
Would be fair to say he's done the research, why not make a proper cover. I'd like to see a side by side test against the other covers .
@@digger105337 he did a whole series on diff covers and I believe he is producing them. They're supposed to be Ram air cooled from what I understand.
Cool. Waiting to see what's next. The bummer is my driveway is at 5,114 ft, so I always get that power drop.
5m 11s The exhaust turbine is NOT driven by exhaust gas being pushed out of the cylinder by the piston.
The exhaust turbine is driven by wasted combustion escaping from cylinder when the exhaust valve is opened DURING combustion.
At high rpm, there is more air fuel content in the cylinder that can be used during the power stroke. ie the combustion duration would be longer than the crank angle time it takes from the injector squirting, to the exhaust valve opening. So....
At high rpm / boost, when the exhaust valve opens there is an explosive pressure wave released into the exhaust manifold.
This is relayed to the turbine wheel which drives it.
The higher you rev your engine the shorter your power stroke is in milli seconds BUT...
The higher you rev your engine, the more boost and air fuel volume you have, and the longer you need for it to burn.
The only time you get "spent exhaust gas" being pushed out of the cylinder by the piston is at idle when the power stroke phase in miliseconds is at its longest and the combustion time in miliseconds represented by the air fuel volume is at its shortest.
Idle is the only time you will NOT see flames or escaped combustion in the exhaust port.
What amazing teacher, going to that shop and meeting you guys would be a dream.
You guys are awesome keep the videos coming, love them 👍👍
Let's see. Sammich: check. Beverage: check. New Duramax episode: check and mate.
G’day from Melbourne Australia thanks for another great video 👌🏻🍻
Just think about if Mad Max used a turbo with cold air intake instead of the belt driven super charger. The gas stealing road warriors would have had no chance catching him! G'day G'night! 😜🤯
I see rounded, finned diff covers!
Gale, this may be a little off topic but I think it may be a good video for the future. I have a question that may skew the numbers but I think a lot of people that have the L5P's in their trucks would really like to see. Now before I ask this question I would like to note that you are using a dynocell vs actual driving conditions. That question is this. How much do the numbers change when you factor in the RamAir hood on the L5P trucks at 60 mph in nominal conditions? The intake air, I know from my truck, never sees the under hood temps and I think GM really knew what they were doing when they added that hood to the truck. Does it make that much of a difference in regards to testing in a dynocell?
I’m really digging all this testing and math behind it. I mostly already knew the whys but have a better understanding of the how. BUT, I’m still patiently awaiting a disastrous “Firepunk Cummins” scale of destruction of this L5P. Dying to see the overhead limits GM designed into it. Thanks for continuing the very educational videos.👍🏻👍🏻
GM had nothing to do with it - it's made by Isuzu in Korea
Deadon, better do some research. It’s a joint venture between GM and Isuzu, started by GM. And they’re built in Moraine Ohio.
@@racrx7 As of May 9th of this year the Moraine Ohio plant was still awaiting government approval to begin production and these engines are still being shipped in from overseas. When production begins they will be essentially a new engine which usually means there will be a number of issues that will have to be worked out and I would not touch any of the first production run engines
Deadon, please list a source for your information. The 6.6 L5P is and has been built in Moraine Ohio. The 2.8 Dmax is built in Thailand. and the latest L5P is designed by GM engineers. So how can you say GM has nothing to do with it?
Hey Gale, can you explain what the difference is between J1349 and the stoicheometric density of 14.7. That’s always what I’ve based my perfect air fuel ratio off of, not 14.4. Just trying to understand if there’s a difference between the two
Who needs to go to college when you have people like Mr. Banks cranking out classes like this?
Umm, doctors? :-)
@@erikscott5709 Touche
So a turbo is better than supercharger? Even though the super does has direct parasitic loss, but has positive scavenging ratio and no back pressure acting on the cylinder. Numbers comparing the two would be cool.
I live in Las Vegas so like many in the desert southwest, our air temperatures average much higher than most. NASCAR for example runs about a dozen races a year in hot weather in these areas, just in one series, not to mention all the other NASCAR series plus NHRA, etc., in just these areas. I would think all that you are talking about in terms of air density, even for those series that don't allow turbo or supercharged air management systems would be critical.
Interesting.
Thousands of Diesel powered trucks (not only commercial but including recreational use trucks) drive from Southern California northeast up the I15 to the Vegas Valley 24/7. That long uphill pull from almost sea level over the mountains at up to approximately 4,500 feet altitude and down to approximately 1,800 - 2,200 feet in the valley must create enormous changes for the engine to deal with. It would be interesting to log a round trip up and over, and analyze it with of course improvements in mind.
We've made that trip dozens of time with various diesels and logged them all. Just have to figure out who to make an interesting/educational video about it.
This makes me a little concerned about my filter under the hood on my new 2022 Duramax, did GM address this by the hood scoop and inclosing the filter so it can get cool air, or should my truck have the filter in a different spot, thank you, Mike
Most engineers have so much information in our brains shooting around that it actually effects our thought to words function.
"What is this thing?" It's an EBP valve off an exhaust housing repurposed into a throttle body...
How about a blower that is powered by a lithium polymer battery......I know that is not practical. But, think of it like this. Supercharger creates high pressure, and.... this high pressure is then used to chill the intercooler as well as increase intake pressure. I’m not really sure how much power it would take to spin the supercharger....I know it takes a lot.
Have you ever messed with Compressed Air Supercharging? All the talk of parasitic loss reminds me of the value of compressed air
Hi Gail so I'm formative as always , can I ask a couple of questions , I totaly get that outside engine bay cold air intake is best for power and torque , presuming that the feed is placed on the front face of the vehicle as the car or whatever is driven forward there should be a volicity increase and therefore pressure increase in the intake air pressure , so bearing that in mind are u better with multiple small tube to collect the air and increase the ir pressure because forcing moving air into a small tube will increase its velocity , or one large intake but with lower air pressure ...?, can u at some point cover intercooler pipe diameter s for the same reason , u have an amazing wealth of knowledge that I would love to tap into , many thank jon.
Awesome series , Gale Banks the most knowledgeable engineer around 👌
Love these videos, but did chuckle a bit when he went to say the name of the third stroke. Sounded like we was trying not to say it (for obvious reasons). Either way fantastic video Gale!
Humidity is already controlled in modern vehicles. The cold air intake just needs to pull air from inside the passenger cabin. Might "suck" a little for the passengers. I wonder how long the AC system could keep up.
You're talking about a perpetual motion machine.
While RPMs are high the stroke is very short. In the end the piston isn’t moving much faster than a V8 with a 4in stroke at 6500-7000 rpm and with a piston that’s much much lighter.
I spy diff covers in the background. :-) When is the release of the product and marketing campaign planned for?
I love all your new series very informative..
I'd LOVE to see him REV the DURAMAX like that Cosworth ;-)
Great series:-) But a question, i understand that they simulate high altitude with the butterfly valve, but did they also simulate the heat under the hood?
Albuquerque where I'm at is a mile high. Everything here is relevant thank you.
Agree,i live in colorado springs at 6900 ft lol
@@jonmeray713 shoot I cant breathe at 6900 lol
Waaaaoooo so interesting I pay attention to every word you said me gale thanks for your time and share all this information 💪💯
Sorry, but parasitic loss do exist in turbo's, but in a different way, pumping losses exist in turbo chargers with a much smaller exhaust housing compared to a SC variant and NA engines, turbos do cost engine performance, especially when guys want to run smaller turbos for response in petrol performance cars.
In fact I had this exact problem when I was running twins on an RB28 at 33psi, the exhaust could not get out quick enough and was turbo choked in a huge way, the only way to solve it, a new single turbo with a much larger housing.
But even still, turbos inherent design still see's a significant increase on piston load through the exhaust stroke compared to NA and SC engines, it is the nature of the beast.
SC'ed engine are definitely worse, i do agree with that, because you are locked into the static HP robbing cycle through the whole 4 stroke cycle at a particular percentage (depending on the SC choice).
Turbo chargers are just dynamic parasitic loss devices, but admittedly much less than a SC, but to say you "get it all" is simply not correct.
There is not much I can ever say negative about Gale, but this is one time I simply have to disagree partially here.
Fantastic educational video Gail love your work
Reminds me of the first trucks I worked on in the early eighties UK, there’s a tractor unit had a 212hp 12 litre straight six naturally aspirated, but the air filters were mounted on the rocker covers with the intake ducts cast in, so the motors taking heated air from behind the radiator, dragging it through oil bath air filters and then reheating it through the rocker covers 😖😖. The engines ran so hot that on a long hill climb sometimes the fuel rack would stick wide open.
The installation of the engine is as important to power and reliability, as the engine is itself
Do you get paid to have that energy drink in frame? 😂😂
This man has so much knowledge.
In a forced induced engine could you use a Doble air filter setup, with the first being a desicant filter and after a normal air filter, don't know if it would be worth it
If you don't make power in the intake stroke you either are not running enough boost or you don't have sufficient crankcase ventilation.
When comparing turbo and mechanical blower and how one pulls power during power stroke and one during exhaust stroke. It makes sense if you have a single cylinder engine but with V8 don't you pretty much always have each stroke happening at the same time so how does it make any difference?
A mechanical blower will drain power from the crank throughout the 4 cycles/2 revolutions of crank, as it actually reduces inertia slowing down the crank, no matter how many cylinders there are firing at any given time.
Where as a turbo is using exhaust pressure/heat which has no parasitic drain on an engine, and which usually is a waste product with no practical use, only prob with a turbo is you need more fuel than a NA motor, due to increased PSI of oxygen in the cylinders.
@@fullboostturbo1
But there is no exhaust pressure (much, of couse some is needed, otherwise there would no be flow at all), if you don't have a turbo blocking the exhaust flow. So the pressure you have before the turbine is not "free waste energy" IMO because you are creating the pressure by restricting the exhaust flow, and higher exhaust pressure means more work needed during exhaust stroke to push the piston up. Heat does make some difference here - because exhaust temperature lowers when it goes through the turbine, that heat energy must have been somehow transferred (to make boost), even if I dont fully understand how. But that's not what I was asking.
If they were to turn off the dyno cell ventilation, and seal the room airtight, i wonder if the running engine could pull enough of a vacuum to break the windows...
This Man tucks his pants in with his belt properly, You listen to this Man.
The exhaust stroke is a parasitic load of the power strokes of other cylinders. The increased back pressure caused by the turbo increases that parasitic load. Therefore, the supercharger parasitic load "problem" is not as bad as implied in this video.........just sayin' :)
My point was that the turbo boost is not free. It is probably a lot more efficient though.
You ever hear of a Detroit 2 stroke diesel? They are fuckin awesome
Those HOT AIR intakes are funny, usually the stock intake system makes better power with denser air on a gas car. The intake system in my Passat is better then any after market option available. N/A 2.8 30v
this may be a dumb question but seeing as how an air filter is under a hood by default, how do you protect it from being a hot air intake?
Should that intake be in a different room? Not right above the hot engine??....
In the final sets of figures, I would like to see the actual high-attitude outcomes. The lower air density at altitude should give interesting turbo-out numbers compared to low altitude.
He said that it would be the same outcome
@@xlegit13 yeah... whilst highlighting the second set of figures he says at 22:55 that the 4000ft ambient air density would be the same as the lower altitude, but his chart at around 21:00 clearly shows they are different, hence my desire to see actual figures for engine performance at 4000ft. I understand on the first chart that the final two figures are the same, but that does not mean all of the second set of figures would be, especially when he makes an inaccurate claim about ambient density being the same. Don't get me wrong, I actually like his vids and the simple, scientific method he uses to show power losses / gains; but, claiming the same outcome based on different figures is not right.
Hi Gale, that was a very interesting video with a lot of information. Would it be possible to develop a program for pressure vs density vs elevation? And a controller to regulate the butterfly, so as you go from sea level up in elevation you can have the same performance in a cold air intake and not KILL THE ENGINE!!!
You'll enjoy a few patents that Gale's working on. Stay tuned.
Does this mean "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" is really "forced, squeeze, bang, blow" no matter if there's a power adder or not?
Hot air intake ,,,, yeah with short throw shifter.... it's sick doppady..dope...