ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2021
- @ALtheBoi X @chaomix
Out here dropping knowledge on you kiddos about Ludonarrative Harmony
Check out chaomix: / @chaomix
🔷 Dumb bird app: / al_theboi 🔷
Stolen footage from
Infinite Valley: / @infinitevalley
Skyth: / @blueskythlikesclouds
Music used (in order):
SimCity 3000 - New Terrain
SimCity 3000 - Concrete Jungle
Sonic Mania OST - Stardust Speedway Zone Act 2
Sonic Adventure OST - Windy & Ripply for Emerald Coast
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle OST - Opening
Nintendo Wii - Shop Channel
Sonic the Hedgehog CD OST - Palmtree Panic
Shadow the Hedgehog OST - Lava Shelter
Catherine OST - Jouji Washington
Catherine OST - The Melancholy of R30
Sonic Colors OST -Yacker's Goodbye
Sonic Unleashed OST -Werehog Battle Theme
Jet Set Radio Soundtrack - Sneakman
Sonic Unleashed OST - Gaia Manuscripts
Jet Set Radio Future Soundtrack - Koto Stomp
Funk RMX feat. Lyn - Escape From The City (instrumental)
Catherine OST - Jouji Washington
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle OST - 34°N, 12°E for Mad Space
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle OST - Won't Stop, Just Go! for Green Forest
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle OST - The Lst Scene
Funk RMX feat. Lyn - Escape From The City (instrumental)
`·._.·(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.·(¯`·._.· NOTHING TO SEE ·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)·._.·´¯)·._.·´
#ALtheBoi #Sonicthehedgehog #chaomix
tag time babeee,
You know the drill, I start babbling keywords to boost engagement, stuff that I, ALtheBoi, or AL the Boi to some, and chaomix talk about in the vid, like Ludonarrative Harmony and Dissonance in the Sonic the hedgehog games and their story / plot / writing / narrative, such as Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Forces, featuring characters like Sonic, Sonic the hedgehog, Shadow the hedgehog, Knuckles the Echidna, Amy Rose, Big the Cat, Sonic Adventure, Tails, Miles Tails Prower
And even stuff that's not even in the video, I literally do not have a soul!
Like Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Frontiers Story, sonic unleashed opening intro, Amy in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Prime, that Netflix show, Silver the hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 movie from Paramount starring Ben Schwartz as Sonic, James Marsden as Tom, who is a lot cooler than Chris from the anime Sonic X, Jim Carrey as Dr. Robotnik, also known as Eggman, he looked hella weird in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), also known as Sonic 06, with Idris Elba as Knuckles the echidna (looks sick) and Colleen O'Shaughnessey as Miles "Tails" Prower, his voice actress from Sonic Forces, Sonic Colors, and Sonic Boom, super happy for her btw, could open some great doors for her in Hollywood.
The keywords to this point have been pretty fair tbh, I could talk about something like the DreamSMP for example if I wanted to be scummy, maybe Tommyinnit, Georgenotfound, Dream, Karl Jacobs, but I ain't gonna do that, I have standards to uphold. And how big could the overlap between the Sonic fanbase and DreamSMP fanbase be tho 🤔 would I even get something out of it? Connoreatspants actually bridges that gap, lmao calling him a minecrafter will surely piss him off, actually learned this whole keyword thing from him, love the guy, would love to meet him.
You're. Still. Reading. Why?
Go do that thing you're behind on, or brush your teeth and get some sleep, take care of yourself, cya :) - เกม
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I AM NOT
FUCKING
STOPPING
LIKE AND SUB OR I'LL LITERALLY MIX CHAO TOGETHER IN A BLENDER
how many of these are there!??
I won't like or sub I need this Chao Milkshake
These videos are too good
What purpose would mixing Chao together in a blender serve? What would the result even be? I'm guessing we would call it Chaomi-OOOOOOOOooooooooh
finally, the question of what chao taste like shall be answered
I'm so tired of people saying "Who cares about the story?" when the plots and concepts from past Sonic games are what made the franchise unique, have its own identity, and just good overall
Objection: I like it because hehe blue rodent go fast.
that's mighty cool, that's another reason I like it as well
Exactly! If story didn't matter then we wouldn't have everyone so stoked to see it repeat itself in the new Sonic 2 movie. The way everyone lost their s**t over Knuckles stopping Sonic mid-spin to punch him down? That's what we've been missing! That's what Knuckles was when his story mattered.
YES! The gameplay is great! But to be honest (and u can hate me yes) I mostly play games for the story
Finally thank you! Someone gets it!!!!
“There’s always one standout level that always leaves an impression”
he’s gonna talk about Eggmanland
“Are you gonna talk about Eggmanland?”
*“IM GONNA TALK ABOUT EGGMANLAND”*
I miss when the other characters were given time to shine. Nowadays they're stuck on the bench, only get off it to act as cheerleaders while a couple of mutes with barely enough personality between them to fill a sandwich take their place in Forces are your playable characters, with one being a bad tribute act having even less of a reason in being there. As I've said to you before, imagine how different things could have been had it been Amy and Tails going to save Sonic, largely due to them having the strongest emotional connection to him, than some no name Joe who doesn't even know Sonic. Plus we could have had something like this from Tails.
"Remember that time I stopped Eggman's missile attack in Station Square? For the first time since we've been friends I was the only who could stop Eggman. That day I realized I couldn't count on you (Sonic) forever. Not that I can't depend on you, but like... what happens when Sonic's isn't here? You know? So I did what you do. I believed in myself and fought anyway. Even though I was scared. And then I won. I want to show you that I can do things too Sonic." Tails
Sonic and Tails R (episode 4)
But what do we get instead, because Tails has to carry that faker (Classic Sonic), and act weak so to make him look better than what he is?
"Sonic, help me!"
I think we've more than exhausted things from both a gameplay and narrative stand point this past decade, where Sonic is the only character who can do anything, and its high time to give the other character another chance. A friend of mine likens the current state of things to going to a friend's house and they've got a large selection of action figures, however you can only get use the same old one over, and over, and over again. Because when Sonic "dies" in Forces, his friends basically hides a bunker, and leaves Eggman to have free reign over the planet. In Sonic 06 however, they refuse to take Sonic's death lying down as they seek out the Chaos Emeralds to bring him back.
Hopefully Frontiers brings them back, because what's the point of having these other great characters if we're only going to be stuck play as Sonic forever? That sounds pretty lame.
Well said , also like that ending sentence it reminds me of what Sonic said in black knight
@@BigBoss549 I actually have the whole Dark Queen bit done
[Merlina, now transformed as the Dark Queen, is sitting on a throne.]
Dark Queen: I've been expecting you.
Sonic: Just one question before we settle this. Why'd you do it? Weren't we trying to save this franchise from the underworld?
Dark Queen: This franchise will fail one way or another. Such is its fate.
Sonic: Huh?
Dark Queen: Do you know what is to become of this franchise?
Sonic: Beats me.
[The Dark Queen starts to walk forward]
Dark Queen: The introduction of humans and guns shall doom the franchise. Sonic is struck down by Mephiles, and is then kissed back to life by a human princess.
Sonic: ...
Dark Queen: This was to be our ideal world. But it will not last... Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends will end in ruin. The 3D world my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes... But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard. Creating a 2D kingdom that never ends. [Uses a small portal to summon a Sonic The Hedgehog Mega Drive cartridge.]
[A flashback of the "To the Blacksmith" scene with Merlina picking up the same Mega Drive cartridge. Sonic finally realizes what her plans are.]
Sonic: What good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!?
Dark Queen: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the depths of the underworld. Do you not understand?
Sonic: No! And I don't want to!
But yea, thats my thing for how imagine people being when they say the series must regress back to being 2D, because Sonic was never meant for 3D. And look at all these bad moments while ignoring the good that there is in the 3D games and stories in the time between 1998-2009 when the series still had its heart, before it regressed to Sonic is the only playable character and everything is one big joke with Colours onwards. Here's hoping the series can reclaim its self respect with Frontiers and not be afraid to take itself serious again, because thats too much like Sonic 06 and we can't have that.
@@DemonDethchase omfg I was reading it as normal and then it goes into the rest of that 😂. That was pretty good. I think Sonic can be good in 3D. I really liked the adventure games and how they did exploration. Hell even 06 made each of the characters play different (Shadow and Silver are not just Sonic clones in terms of gameplay.)
I’ve been playing project 06 and the game is pretty enjoyable for just having the Sonic and Shadow stages. It’s gonna be years until that’s done though. I think if they release 2D AND 3D games everyone can be pleased. While I do like the 2D games, I don’t like them as much as the 3D ones for some reason. These past few games could’ve been something if it wasn’t for lazy writing, level design and almost everything. The setting in forces looked cool but it doesn’t mean much when there’s really nothing at stake.
I hope frontiers is good. I haven’t been keeping up with Sonic since generations so I’m not as disappointed as someone that’s been keeping up with him every year since then (although I probably should). Here’s hoping it’s a game we can enjoy!
@@BigBoss549 with you saying about a mix 2D and 3D games I wouldn't mind it myself, just like they used to do with the Advance games, however some games journalists would have you believe that 2D Sonic died with advent of Sonic Adventure, what with Eurogamer calling Sonic 4 Episode 1 the game Sega should have made 15 years ago, despite the fact that the game is a massive regression from the 2D games before it what with the lack additional playable characters and momentum based physics. Granted they did add Tails to episode 2, but considering that he's locked behind player 2, with no way to play as him when playing solo, one has to wonder if that even counts. But as well "it's just like 06!" I recall with a gameplay of Forces with city stage, Nintendo Life were all "look, a city! Its just like 06!" as if cities were exclusively in that game.
Also with Forces, its much as you said yourself about having no real stakes, they talk about Tails having a mental breakdown and Sonic being tortured for six months straight by Eggman, but yet when we join them they seem none the worse for wear. Sonic especially, who seems more like he's been on some extended vacation at Costa Del Eggman, given how he's chilling in his cell all the while cracking the same old unfunny jokes without a scratch on him. Granted these were botched translations from the Japanese script, by Pontaff, but don't go saying things happened when they didn't, because it only undermines the tone of the story.
@@DemonDethchase Sonic Episode 1 was good?! What were they thinking. Physics suck and are not like the 2D games at all. Episode 2 was a little bit better and the metal sonic theme was actually SUPER GOOD.
And yeah I can’t believe Tails was such a coward in Forces when he was gonna take Sonic spots when he supposedly died in Adventure 2.
I’m so glad for me and the rest of us Sonic fans that Pontiac and Graff are gone. Sonic Colors was a nice game and hell I’ll throw Generations in too but Lost World and Forces have been hard misses. If Frontiers flops this time next of next year I guess I’m done with Sonic and just going to play the Sonic Origins collection
The thing that separates video games from other sources of storytelling is that these games require the audience to have input on the character’s decisions and skill and set the same goals for the player. Ludonarative harmony is a natural strategy for any video game story to have impact. That being said, Sega has managed to utilize this in the best of their stories through the tension of the Sonic genesis games, adventure games, and the cause/effect system of Unleashed. Since Sega has felt less story oriented, it feels like the gameplay and these levels should exist just because it’s a video game series.
Hopefully Frontiers will be an upgrade.
Forces in particular was really bad with this; the poor narrative delivery rarely justifies the narrative context.
But if Breath of the Wild can do that and this is going at a similar angle, I think Ian Flynn can bring that to Frontiers
You wish came true and Frontiers is a banger! :D
@@Hugo-yz1vb I haven’t played it yet, but judging by what little fan reception I’ve heard, it seems pretty good.
Edit: Completed update 3 and U are correct.
AL you're one of the most promising Sonic youtuber I discover for a long time.
5:58 I'm not even mad that Chaomix couldn't think of ludonarrative dissonance in the moment... But come on, ludonarrative CHAOS was right there.
To me, a good story can always make a game more interesting. For me, it gives me more of a reason to want to make it to the end. I want to see how it ends. How it all wraps up. It makes completing the adventure worth it besides bragging rights.
"Know what, Shadow ain't looking too bad after all", best statement this entire vod. It like someone just looked at Shadow said "You are not the stinkest monkey in the zoo, that is"
My favorite detail from Adventure 2 is when Eggman gathers the dark team to explain the plan before they invade the government military base. It wakes you up and reminds you you're about to go to war with GUN and the plan is simple enough to make sense to a young player while feeling complex enough to make Eggman sound smart. Without it, the island levels could have felt like a lot of disconnected action. with it, you're executing a master plan.
In the Shadow the Hedgehog game, actually you are partially locked in, while I don't know where the leveling cities part comes in exactly, but once you get to level 4 you start losing potential routes (unless you pick pure neutral). And even if you go all the way you don't just change morality on a whim, the hero route of the darkest mission basically has Shadow become the God Emperor (based) and betraying Black Doom, the dark mission of the pure hero route basically has you become Vegeta.
The characters likely don't know what or why you're doing what you're doing so they always try to reach out to you just in case they can get it. And as for random killing a few G.U.N members, I mean we have SA2 killing random civilians who are just driving, those cars in the cities levels aren't driving themselves.
Although having the 5 routes be locked after a certain point would be better, though they should still have the final split between two choices.
I feel like the biggest issue with Shadow is just the lack of adaptive details. Biggest example is the GUN Fortress. The cutscene before it will always show the president arrive, even if he was killed the mission before. If that cutscene was changed and the soldiers' voicelines were changed from "Protect the president!" to "Avenge the president!", it would already feel way more cohesive. And that counts for a lot more of the game too.
Second biggest issue is that we never see the storyline of the canon ending. We are just sorta left to guessing what went down, even tho that's just kinda stupid.
@@lpfan4491 I thought they reference it in sonic 06 on why his reasoning for joining GUN
@@lpfan4491 to be fair, you never actually kill the President.
That might be more with the sudden targeting of the E10+ rating but even in that mission you only kinda injure him
@@colmecolwag No, the entire mission is pretty much under the pretense that he's going to die if you succeed.
And the goal is to stop the escape by destorying the thing he is in, which makes it basically impossible for him to survive logically.
@@lpfan4491 and then the cutscene immedietly after is him surviving
The original intent was probably 100% killing him before the sudden mid development rushed change for the E10+ rating
This is speculation but im pretty sure killing the president wouldnt have made that E10+ rating (or killing any human really. Which is why you cant kill GUN soldiers in the game but you could in prerelease content. And why the aliens bleed green instead of red)
Story DOES matter in Sonic games. It's why they're so loved and talked about amongst the community and gamers alike. Don't let some other comments disagree with your POV. You were spot on regardless.
“I don’t even like SA2!”
Me: You are hanging by a thread dude
5:58 this part earned the like
i was gonna like it anyways, but this is the part that made me do it
A thing not enough people put attention to in videogames is that they are ultimately interactive experiences and the context given to those moments greatly enhances andngives weight and meaning to them.
Even SuperMarioBros 1 needed a princess for Mario to save.
When a game is able to immerse you to the point you aren't thinking of yourself as a person in a chair or bed pressing buttons on a controller, but instead an extension of the goings on in the events of the game, that is where you get the magic of the medium.
Great video.
WOO THE COLLAB WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR
The story is absolutely relevant when it comes to giving context to gameplay in these games. And here is my rant about why people generally don't see this:
Seriously the entire reason why people say that story runs counter to the essence of Sonic are the dumb as heck localisationpractices. You guys see, Sonic 1-Knuckles' Chaotix were plagued by technical(software/hardware) limitations, like basically every other non-rpg at the time.(Because one could only reasonably have a plot or action-gameplay back then, not both).
That's why the tiny amount of lore that did exist was pushed to the manuals. Sounds like a decent idea, right? Well, not if these manuals get completely rewritten in America and Europe. It's like if the localisations of the first three Zeldagames called the Triforce "Magical Cheesecrackers" and then people are confused when Ocarina of Time released. Granted, there is a minor plothole in the japanese Sonic3-manual, but it still overall makes the progression to SA1 a lot less jarring.
And that is not even starting with the nonsense they did with the stories from that game onwards too. That side of the interaction was screwed too, making the style of the series way less consistent than in its original form.(Again, JP-version isn't perfect either, but a lot better than what we got. And pseudos will say that it doesn't matter because "That is what we got, so it's the fault of the games themselves". I guess bad anime-subs also mean that the writing in those shows was also pure garbage.)
Oh, and bonus-message for some people: If everything after Sonic 3 is stupid and cringy fanfiction, what the heck are the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Form? And the Hyperform? And the evil counterpart of the MC that is Metal Sonic? And the female recolor of the MC that is amy(You know, before the later games made her more unique)? And timetravel?
Wanna know something funny? The people that say more modern Sonic games are “fan fiction” or the classics are just silly cartoons, never actually played the games. They just make shit up.
Can we just appreciate the editing here for a sec? I. FRICKIN. LOVE. IT.
I lost my mind over how those two bantered back and forth and then that commentary on the Eggman level's audio made me lose it!
Highly agree, I guess my one critique is that when showing the cutscenes they had the top and bottom blurred but it ended up blurring the text of the scene.
That bad audio edit was hilarious
That’s by design actually!
I blur cutscenes that contain subtitles so it won’t be distracting
_it could bite me in the ass and have the opposite effect but eh_
@@ALtheBoi Nah, I noticed it too and thought it was a very good choice because I always get distracted when I see subtitles and start reading them over whoever is talking.
on april fools i wouldn't be surprised if you uploaded a character arc dive into big the cat lol, and it would still be fire regardless lmao
I really love it when the story affects the the gameplay. It really helps me get immersed in this world. I'm not watching a tense situation where the character needs to move quickly to get out of there safe. I'm *playing* a tense situation and *I* need to move quickly. It's a nice detail that allows both the story and gameplay to come together to make a better experience. It feels like there's weight and context for everywhere you go and I love it. I'm glad that Sonic has been consistent with at least this over the years.
This is my first video I've watched from your channel, and I gotta say, the editing is *on point*, for real. This is top quality video editing. Keep it up!
Appreciate it!
Advance 3: *OH MY FUCKING GOD THE PLANET IS IN PIECES WE ARE GONNA DIE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
Unleashed: Oh did that scientist did it again? Whatever
How do you keep pumping up so many great videos, truly a bunch of amazing Christmas presents
Definitely a lot of Sonic games were the definition of Story and Gameplay melting together
This video is near perfect. You and Chaomix have some amazing chemistry and I'd love to see you do more collabs if they're gonna be of this caliber. The scripted banter is legitimately entertaining. The video is masterfully crafted and so chock full of little details to get lost into that really showcase how thought-out your editing angle is. I love the moment he says "audio mixing" and it correlates in the video. I love how I can feel the end of the video physically wink at me because both you and the audience know HTF Amy just came out and was watched before this. You mastered comedy here too, though I'm inclined to think maybe Chaomix was rubbing off on you there. Either way, this is an S tier vid on par with Is Sonic Cool.
hyperstories (stories where you play different parts/characters all happening simultaneously to explain things happening in other parts at the same time) is peak storytelling
I'll at least defend SOME of the Shadow endings, as someone who's played the hell out of it. There is, by the nature of the routes, a sort of 'point of no return' if you spend too long being good or evil where you can't suddenly hard veer into the alternate morality-laden side of things, and at least the "defeat Doom" ending at the end of the most evil route isn't so much about "turning good" so much as it is about betraying your master at the final moment and becoming the new head of the black arms.
It's basic, but it works, and it's less hilariously stupid than its alternate, where at the end of the pure good route, if you go evil, you fight Sonic and the Commander because... Shadow wants to prove he's the ultimate hedgehog? I mean I guess there's some good-route stages that heavily emphasize his rivalry with Sonic, but it's treated as abruptly and ridiculous by the cutscenes before and after the boss as it really was, if I remember correctly.
The most major case of ludonarrative dissonance on Shadow that I can think of is, honestly, Doom himself, though. Like, every single other character are Shadow's friends and former associates, people who've seen him talked down from the brink before and know he's capable of better, so sure, I can see them giving him the benefit of the doubt to the very end. But Doom? You can tell him to piss off and slaughter his armies left and right, and up to the end of the very most good route, he'll still be saying, 'yes, Shadow, my minion, my perfect slave creature obedient right hand... Now, we can stop the humans!' Sometimes even after sending his own bosses to fight him like Black Bull. Is he that stupidly obsessed with the idea of using Shadow that he can't even consider he won't come around until it's time to face him head-on?
I agree with everything!
Again, I really think if the game was overall less open-ended and focused more on the paths that would realistically happen given certain circumstances, the experience would go over much more smoothly
Like what you said for example, have Doom be less tolerant of Shadow's disabidence, instead of following him around everywhere like a desperate salesman even after you reject him multiple times
@@ALtheBoi Come to think of it, this is honestly a place where expanding on Eggman's role could've paid off, since hell, he already does play as an alternative 'evil option' in some stages, and the neutral-est endings of the game all end up focusing on him even if he just comes out of nowhere in most.
Then, choosing to aid him in situations where he's the villain could naturally funnel the player towards the middle paths, distracting from the greater conflict and getting absorbed in his efforts to gaslight Shadow into thinking he's a machine or, failing that, the more morally grey endings on the ark and black comet where he's also an alternative final boss... Who just comes out of nowhere. TBH, the idea that Shadow might be an android was my favorite lingering thread from heroes, and I was always a bit disappointed only came up in like two stages aside from the last battle.
Funny enough, I feel like one of the most surprisingly sort-of coherent routes in the game is the one where Shadow more or less goes full neutral except for when it means helping out Team Chaotix:
Their subplot investigating things plays a massive part in Last Story, even calling back to an earlier cutscene where Shadow "hacked" a machine by hitting it, to get that final video message of Professor Gerald. At the end of Vector's stage, Shadow is at one of his lowest points BECAUSE of learning that he was made with the aid of Black Doom, which contributed to the tragedy in turn. Going from that to Gerald's reassuring message about the GOOD that Shadow can do, it makes for an alarmingly functional narrative where he concludes that the most important thing is to put the past behind him.
And god I can gush about seeing the vengeful Professor Gerald when he was more full of hope and desire to aid humanity in the Last Story but that's another thing entirely.
The editing in this video is really insane my guy! you guys killed it.
Al: “I don’t even like SA2, just does shit right”
Chao: “…what-“
Al: “don’t worry bout it”
That is probably one of the most dismissive but hilarious things I’ve seen a collab do. So subtle but boy did it make me laugh hard.
7:44 is so fucking funny i died lmao
Just like all those innocent people Shadow killed
I just learned a new term today. Now I know why I feel story is just as important as gameplay. Thank you!
Thank You, my pleasure!
Damn bro, what a neat concept for a video.
The editing matching what you two were saying was especially cool.
I like what I see so far :)
tbf, between fighting a giant liqulizard, and chilling with my best frog on a fishing trip. I think we'd all go with the fishing trip. thus, big is indeed, a man of the people
It's sad to see games like Sonic shuffle and battle to have underrated stories with great character moments being shafted due to mediocre and tedious gameplay.
THANK YOU, FINALLY, SOMEONE RECOGNIZES THAT SHUFFLE'S STORY IS GOOD!!! 😍
@@RosheenQuynh Ayyyyy
@@chillykomasan7971 It's my favorite game in the series and SO many people sleep on it! Even without the gameplay, they think it's just too cryptic to understand but that just isn't the case...
@@RosheenQuynh I’m surprised shuffle is even mentioned. Not that I’m complaining, it needs more support!
Remaking Sonic Shuffle into a platformer RPG hybrid would be a dream realized. That setting deserves more recognition.
Wow 2 videos have been hinting at this video here with the word Ludonarrative Harmony congrats on the build up
THANK you for catching that holy shit
@@ALtheBoi of course my man u clearly put ALOT of effort into these so I make it a point to try and contribute and notice as much as possible
One of the ways I feel Forces should of done was include missions of individual characters that could progress the story. For example have a side quest for Vector, Espio and Charmy to investigate a radio signal from Eggman that briefly mentioned Sonic's name and have them discover that Sonic is alive and locate where he is. You could have a Tails mission where he tries plant bombs in a badnik factory before they detonate. Have an Amy mission where she tries to deliver supplies to outposts of other resistance fighters while evading enemies. Have a moment where the main base is under siege and Knuckles must defend the base until reinforcements can arrive. And when they find out Sonic is on the moon base have Silver and the avatar travel there to rescue Sonic.
God I've been wanting someone to talk about how Sonic handles the Ludonarrative for years lmao. Great job as always!
1:15 Only Tails would understand what that means, lol
I am stunned at the fact you made this in 3 - 4 days because in my opinion this is literally the greatest video on your channel.
WOO HOO! YEAH! The chads Al and Chaomix, the collab we didn't ask for, but downright deserved!! You guys make for a great team, keep it up fellas!✊🏿
SA2 sounds like Michael Bay said the locations and the devs made it work somehow.
HOLY SH*T THE EDITION IS SO GOOD
The boi is on a roll releasing video after video
You've been stacking videos for a full year. Hope its worth it
I actually got to experience some of the things you guys are saying during my gameplays of SA2
During my first gameplay, ofc, I played through the levels and really enjoyed the story like everybody else, but... at one point, my save file got corrupted and I had to restart the whole and here is the catch:
Because I had already played the game once, I tackled the Hero stages while skipping every cutscene, which really felt like I was forcing myself to finish the game.
At first, I thought it was just because I had already done that and was just trying to get everything back, but... once I got to Dark history, I decided to watch the cutscenes again and I can tell you I enjoyed replaying that story more
The Segway into the Amy video? You sir, are a genius *chefs kiss*
7:44 lmfao
BRO YOU KEEP FEEDING US WITH THESE VIDEOS BACK TO BACK
3 VIDEOS IN A ROW?! Holy shiz man
Thank you, TH-cam Recommendation! c:
Already love the title and the thumbnail.
Just found this channel yesterday and I'm blown away. This particular video is awesome. When the Sonic series gets ludonarrative harmony right, it REALLY gets it right and I'm so glad this video here shows that.
BRO. THE. EDITING.
Holy crap, this is so quality it's not even funny! Love your videos!
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the elephant in the room. The mid-late 2000’s era elephant in the room, to be precise. Though, I suppose to be fair, if you’d taken out the crappy romance and found another reason to put so much emphasis on the Princess being the vessel for Iblis, it actually could have been one of the best Sonic Storylines. Of Course, that is coming from the viewpoint of a Christian who knows what they tried to base it off of, too (two major antagonists with different religious names for the Devil pointing towards a being with an unspeakable number theme being taken down by a holy trinity, ending in a universal reset? Yeah, they literally just ripped the game right out of the book of Revelation).
So Sonic is essentially the Messiah in that game
@@genericname2747 You're talking about '06, right? In what way was he ever depicted in a messianic light? Even compared to the storybook games, Sonic is given ZERO special treatment in '06 from both a narrative and character standpoint.
Forces would be a much better example, given he was constantly being called and treated like a "savior" by everyone in the cast, good or bad. He somehow dwarfs all of his allies in that story, to the point where without him, we're supposed to believe there was NOTHING stopping a total Eggman takeover (Shadow was quite litterally ctr+alt+deleted for 6 months just to help push this notion, while everyone else admitted to doing nothing). Hence why we get lines like Sonic has now been beating Eggman for "decades," or my favorite example: Tails going on a rant about how the "world needs a Sonic" and that any Sonic will do, even Classic. It doesn’t get any transparent than that, lol.
love the way your videos are edited they're so fun to watch along side making some really good points Great content!
He actually back with a vengeance
ur editing has become even more godtier than it already was, congrats
Gawd *damn* boi triple uploads??
Not that im complaining tho
THIS COLLAB IS THE AVENGERS OF THE SONIC TH-cam!!!
"you know what, shadow ain't looking too bad after all"
ANOTHER AL THE BOI VIDEO? We've been really fed good this week! Phenomenal video as usual bro
the editing skill on this video is insane! you deserve so much more attention
Chaomix keeps using the word "Omnipotent." I don't think it means what he thinks it means. Unless he thinks that Big The Cat is an all-powerful creator God.
But...he is.
Yo this video slaps this is the shit I've been thinking about for like 20 years
This is seriously the most organic collab video I have ever seen, congrats!
Lots of good points here, plus this editing is lovely. Amazing job!!
I am in love with these back to back daily uploads
I haven't laughed and cheered this much for a TH-cam video in such a long time! Wow! I enjoyed something nostalgic, learned something new and had the best time listening to you two bicker between each other.
love this video & collab. you guys have great energy, play off each other well, and have such a fun dynamic. as always, the video editing is amazing.
Newly awakened Al the Boi + Chaomix in a video with an interesting topic, awesome editing, and funny jokes?
LET'S GO!!!
I love this video, you and chaomix are both sonic fans with a whole lot of passion towards the story and characters. you guys still bicker about which games are good and which are bad and clearly have different opinions on these things, but despite the disagreements, you still put aside your differences and made this video together, and i really love that. Its Wholesome :)
Dude your channel is legit underrated and underestimated, your execution on your videos and your editing is amazing! Your videos made me watch ALOT of your content, keep it up AL The Boi, keep it up!
Damn, this video is fucking bananas. Really nice essay and what an amazing editing.
Keep 'em coming.
YESSIR THIS IS A GOATED COLLAB
Your videos are amazing I love your editing style.
Third video of AL in 3 days???
*Merry fucking Christmas to me*
Tbh, there's a LOT wrong with Forces' world building, stage design, and storytelling. So much so that I can't reasonably list it all here, lol.. But for the subject of the video, not only is there no context or weight to anything we do within the stages, they also copy and paste the same levels 3-5 times each (regardless of where you seemingly are on the "map"). WHY do we keep going through the same nameless "city" over and over again when this is supposed to be a WORLDWIDE WAR?
I did not even hint at Forces having good building _in the slightest_ that shit is ass
My statement was _“some of the places and aesthetics look pretty cool”_
@@ALtheBoi Ah, my bad dude. Didn't even realize I read into what you said that much 😅 Anyway, forgot to put this in the OP, but this was a great video dude! Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts Sonic's underrated storytelling, and the collab with Chaomix was a nice treat!
Sorry for the late reply btw, TH-cam doesn't notify when I get one anymore, lol.
I love the way you edit your videos AL!
TRIPLE DAILY UPLOAD?! Looks like Christmas came early!
WHY ARE THESE VIDEOS SO WELL CRAFTED STOPPP YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THISSS.
Al really just did triple upload to make up for the time he went missing
The collab I never knew I needed 🙏🙏
Dude 3 videos in 3 days??
Is it christmas??
wait... it is.
Great video! I do overall disagree with your analysis on many points, but you made your points very well and it was a very enjoyable watch!
For Tails in SA1, while yes it does make sense for a story perspective for Tails to be there, I don't believe that matters all that much considering how painfully boring his gameplay is (which you do point out) and how he arguably has the worst designed campaign in the story. Seriously lol, it's mostly just minigames and bosses. Start with Boss -> Windy Valley Act 3 (which was clearly not designed at all with him) -> Casinopolis Act 2 -> Ice Cap Act 3 (snowboarding minigame) -> Knuckles Boss Fight -> Chaos 4 Boss -> Sky Case 1 (minigame) -> Sandhill( minigame) -> Sky Case 2 (minigame) -> Sky Deck Act 1 -> Speed Highway Act 1 -> Boss.
For Big, I disagree that his role as kind of a self insert of the player (him being how we the player view the game) is a good thing in this case due to how much of a pace breaker it is. While it is funny as you mentioned how he is kind of just observing everything from the sidelines, I'd much rather be spending time with a character that is driving the plot forward. Actually, the only playable characters that have ANYTHING to do with the story of Chaos are Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. Everyone else has no reason to be there.
These cases are very different from how the storytelling worked in the classics, as almost everything there was in service of moving the games story forward through gameplay that didn't break the pace, as well as the fact that honestly, you could completely ignore ALL the subtle storytelling in the classics and still have a very fun game due to how excellently designed they are as you pointed out. For me honestly, while the use of cutscenes in Sonic 3 is a nice bonus, they don't significantly increase my enjoyment of the game. Honestly they are at points used quite poorly like the cutscene where you're in the Egg Mobile in Launch Base, or the run up the crumbling tower to the Death Egg in Sky Sanctuary. I always just fast forward through these scenes because they take way to freaking long. When the game spends TO much time on certain scenes, it actually DETRACTS from my enjoyment of the game and makes me wish I can just skip them. As for Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, I don't even notice the use of storytelling when playing since I'm having so much fun playing around with Sonic's physics. For Sonic CD, I just get the special stages and ignore the hunt for the robot generators. Doesn't matter whether I'm in the past Past/Present/Future lol.
DAMN, I didn't even notice in Unleashed that the area Eggman destroys was Adabat! That was a holy shit moment lol
For SA2, I disagree that the story and gameplay work well together for most of the game. Honestly, with some exceptions (like the Prison Stuff in Dark Story) and excluding cutscenes where the player is LITERALLY in the environment of the stage.. the game and story is quite disjointed. Like how Knuckles's first cutscene is CLEARLY in Tails's Hidden Base, but we immediately teleport to Knuckle's Wild Canyon. How Sonic literally ends Metal Harbor in the middle of the ocean to somehow being deep inside the heart of the Jungle In Green Forest (yeah while you can kind of see the Jungle in the VERY distant background in a few parts of the stage... it's quite a stretch since they look nothing alike and there is no way Sonic can cross that gap lol). How basically almost everything Tails does can be removed from the game without a direct influence on the plot (I said almost, don't kill me lol). As you pointed out, Knuckles is basically doing a COMPLETELY different quest than everyone else, but that the Master Emerald ends up tying into the main story at the ending. I don't think this works because if the character LITERALLY has 1 use, why even be there? Also, the plan fails because the Biolizard then merges with the Ark, making Knuckles's ONE job pointless lol. (No, I don't think him needing to find 3 random keys in Death Chamber counts as a major plot element that needs to stay for the story to make sense). On another note, why is a Space Shuttle in Pyramid Cave lol.
While Dark Side does a better job, a good amount of stages still feel like they make no narrative sense like Rouge's Dry Lagoon (how we get there from Tails's Hidden Base), or Eggman's Cosmic Wall not making sense considering he LITERALLY has a teleporter to the Ark. Which begs the question why does he have a Spaceship where the the coordinates are set to go to the ark considering the Spaceship was there before he finds out the Ark exists (where does he find the coordinates to the Ark anyway... does he Google them??? Does Tails somehow manage to set the coordinates to the ark despite the fact we literally make it into the Spaceship with SECONDS remaining). Why does he have a space teleporter before he even finds out the Ark exists.... does it work anywhere?? Why does he teleport himself to the most dangerous locations of the Ark when he should just be able to teleport to where he needs to be (which he does at points of the story). I understand his first level Lost Colony since he doesn't have the Ark mapped out.. but why go through Cosmic Wall lol.
I hope all this doesn't sound like I'm complaining or anything, I really enjoyed the video and look forward to more from you in the future! 👍
Thank you for the comment!
I read the whole thing, and don't _really disagree with all the things said that much,_ as you've said we even point out things like how Tails' game design is inherently lazy, how SA2 is all over the place, etc
But I do think that for the purposes of this video, the things we talk about do still hold water given how we're isolating it to that very specific topic
@@ALtheBoi Yeah, it was a really well made video! Good Job on it!
I disagree with this. Why? Because I'm based.
Ngl, I strongly disagree with this comment. It's wrong.
It would be nice to see an Unleashed remaster release on modern consoles.
this guys editing is insane
Thank you recommendations
3:38 I think he meant "omniscient", unless he's saying Big is all-powerful.
Bro how do you have only 22k subscribers? You deserve at least 500k.
5:30 that would be the crash bandicoot remake
Wow this channel ticks all the boxes for me:
Great video editing/graphic design✅
"How TF are you so funny???"✅
Subscribed.
3 consecutive uploads?!!1 holy!!11!1!!
Great video guys.
Flawless video, subbed 🙏🏾
This is why I think Sonic Frontiers WILL succeed. Even if it gets bashed on release, fans will realise how great it was years later simply because of the story. Ian Flynn is incredible. I am up to date on the IDW series and I c r a v e for more. I have never seen such development for Sonic himself in a Sonic medium than IDW and thats why Im confident Frontiers will not fail.
This video slapped so hard
love these videos
what's the name of the song that starts playing when you guys go over SA2? That joint is fire
It’s the new City Escape Funk remix they just put out, I’ve named it in the description you can find it on the official Sonic channel
@@ALtheBoi Thanks man! Also I was wondering if I could use a snippet from your video for a TikTok, and I’ll give you a shout out and for people to check your channel if you don’t mind.
Sure, go ahead, shoot me a link when you do
Which part tho?
The narratives often fit the gameplay, but the biggest problem with the narratives is that they're cheesy, have bad dialogue, poor voice acting, etc. So even when this harmony is achieved people still go "hey, stop including these stories; they're fucking awful" to go along with "this game plays like crap". I agree wholeheatedly with your assessment of Sonic 3 & Knuckles story-telling, though. That game is a masterpiece on every level.
And as much as I disagree with almost everything you said praising the story-telling being anything other than godawful, this was a very well done video and got a laugh or two out of me. Liked and subbed.
Is this just on the localisations or the original japanese? This series has a really bad case of "murdered by dub".
@@lpfan4491 both, honestly. Without the ultra cringe English voice acting in the older games you still have a cheesy story overall. In the newer games where the English voice acting is better, you still have horrible dialogue.
Videos like these speak more to the *intent* of the stories. But the execution, the final product is ultimately all that matters. Obviously, this is my opinion. While my mind is boggled that people unironically enjoy these stories, I'll never jump on forums/comment sections/etc going "U pEoPlE r StOoPiD cUz U lIEk ThEsE sToRiEs". That said, everything about the stories, from the dialogue to the character development, I find cringe. In the 3-D games, at least.
i hope Sonic Frontiers to have a story to make Sonic in a realistic world make sense
These videos are genius
What a way to end the video. Reference to Amy Rose followed by recommending her video to me.
Well played.