Ariel Helwani: What Needs to Change in MMA Judging - MMA Fighting
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2022
- Ariel, New York Ric and Conner Burks discuss the fallout from UFC 282, the co-main event between Paddy Pimblett and Jared Gordon, Ariel's feeling it was "one of the worst decisions in the history of the UFC," the state of MMA judging, Ariel's thoughts on Doug Crosby's scorecards in UFC 282 and Bellator 289, Jan Blachowicz vs. Magomed Ankalaev scoring, and more.
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![ป่ะป๊าเลอา ชื่อ ??? [ดูคลิปเต็มหน้าช่อง] #Short | PANG ORNHIRA](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ssxX0VkJCTo/mqdefault.jpg)
Paddy's drop in popularity over 7 days is unprecedented.
mma fans are fickle. They turned on Khamzat and Sterling quickly also. It is what it is lol
@@LeftWingNationalist This isn't fickle it's deserved. Paddy never had the talent to back up the hype, it took a year or so for most UFC fans to finally get the memo on that.
It's amazing. Everyone thinks he lost. I was watching Big Johns podcast and I have never heard them be that blunt about how mediocre a fighter is. They were running down possible matchups and were like.."he would die against this guy."
@@DM-sy4hg I seen that. They made paddy sound like he is a trash fighter lol 😂
Totally.
Paddy asking for a performance bonus was absolutely insane
Guy was basically begging for it after, screaming after Dana thirsty as hell for that 50k.....
Paddy won the gift of the night
Everything about it was just yuck
@@markroyds23 there is an old saying “closed mouthes don’t get fed” that I think bc applies here
they fixed the fight for paddy to win because they want to build him up as a huge superstar.
The fact that this decision is still being talked about is a testament to how bad it was. Most are forgotten by Sunday morning.
To the contrary, I think if the same performance we saw for Paddy was the case for, say, Wonderboy vs Burns or Belal, with the latter holding Wonderboy against the fence, but getting elbowed in the head in the process, and with Wonderboy getting four additional significant strikes in the 2nd and two more in the 3rd, fewer people would question who did more damage in the 2nd and 3rd, and that damage criteria would be the main factor as to who won 29-28. It wouldn't be seen as a robbery, and vastly fewer people would complain if Wonderboy (Paddy) was awarded the win in that case (those extra 4 + 2 significant strikes in the 2nd and 3rd are the case for Paddy against Gordon). I think Paddy being such sore 'winner' and having an unintended heel turn throughout the week soured viewers, and resulted in them seeing him getting controlled as a sure sign of losing, and not paying attention to the damage trumps all judging system
This is so accurate 👏
@@jamesthompson9003 kid do u know belal and burns did not let wonderboy move
@@liuooop38101 Kid did you know the example I used had nothing to do about the actual times Burns and Belal fought Wonderboy? I said if when Wonderboy (a guy with more popular credibility in the last week than Paddy) fought one of those two (or Sean Brady, or another grappler if it helps you understand), and it went down identically to how Paddy vs Gordon went, I can't see many people suggesting that Wonderboy was robbed in the case he'd landed more significant strikes in the 2nd and 3rd. The argument that he did more damage would hold, seeing as the new rules don't give much value to takedowns and holding against the fence. There would be no way this would be called robbery if it went down with a guy that wasn't massively hated in the last week
If Paddy didn't go after Ariel it probably would've died out
Congrats to Paddy on winning “Gift of the Night”! 👏👏
grift, gift.
potato, potatoe.
Laddy the Fatty?
And he wanted a bonus on top of that
😂
I can't think of many worse decisions in the history of the UFC. Most of the controversial ones are still pretty debatable but this was such a clear win for Gordon.
Nam Pham vs Leonard Garcia decision was a head scratcher years ago. If you can find it online and watch it you'll be like "wtf were they watching?"
@@ryannath85 yes! I remember that one. Crazy stuff
This was bad but GSP vs Big Rig was worse imo. Which again, was highly favorable to the UFCs bottom line.
Reyes vs Jones comes to mind.. he clearly won the first 3, then looked semi trash the last two. The blatant favoritism going in the UFC is nuts
Lol casual
How awkward was it when paddy made the joke to Joe rogan about paying
Awkward is an understatement
Lol the way Joe just no sold it like a boss.
Just because the judges aren’t officially on their payroll doesn’t mean a few aren’t on their “payroll”
EXACTLY
Las Vegas owners own judges and UFC and the bookies. This is rigged as rigged gets.
I just said this s*** right before I read what you wrote
the guy who said judges and the UFC are independent parties lives in Disneyland, he must think corruption does not exist in this world or something
I mean, they have some mob bosses walking around during weigh-ins. It tells you what kind of connections UFC has.
One thing that is not being talked about on top Gordon doing more than enough to win these rounds is how many of Paddy's strikes did NOT actually land. For anyone paying close attention to that fight the majority of Paddy's shots where blocked by Gordon and hitting his glove. The crowd was lighting up every time Patty threw a combination but hardly anything was landing clean. The judges seemed to be more influenced by crowd reaction than where his shots were actually landing. Gordon himself said in a TMZ interview today that only a few shots grazed him and bruised him, the rest hit his glove. So it even further proves Paddy did not win this fight.
SO TRUE.
Exactly how it went man. Crowd went crazy when paddy threw shots and backed Gordon down but almost every shot landed on Gordon's glove ahah
Exactly what I thought. Some shots got around Gordon’s guard and Paddy had some decent kicks, but these strikes came nowhere close to the number of flush shots that Paddy took. Gordon was landing far better from what I saw in my first watch, especially the first round
So if Ronda lasted a meer 24 minutes and 15 seconds longer she might have won a decision 🤔🤔 so close
The judges allow the crowd to influence them too much your right every time Paddy threw anything the crowd was going wild smh...I saw someone try and compare Paddy and Conor you can't compare the two
Paddy can’t understand why Ariel is getting support. Paddy can’t understand why people think Gordon won.
“Paddy’s a little bit stupid.”
-Chael Sonnen
😂😂😂 did he say that I read it in his voice
@Regis Johnson 2 of the 3 judges gave Gordon the 3rd round. Did Paddy take the 3rd round off harder?
@Regis Johnson You were saying Gordon "took an entire round off," I assume you mean the 3rd round? Dana White said as much, that Gordon shouldn't have taken off the 3rd round by holding Paddy agains the cage the whole time. Funnily enough, Paddy claimed HE is the one who coasted the 3rd round. Go figure.
@@Prbkkb Yes, he did. Search Chael's YT channel for "Paddy the Baddy has a case of the stupids" 😂
@regisjohnson4958 I don't think it's a robbery either. I felt Gordon did enough to win all three rounds, but the fight on the whole was close. Hard to call it a robbery when the fight was competitive. I think it's Paddy's inability to recognize it was a close fight, and telling others who disagree with the decision that they don't know anything about fighting and to eat his a*****e is what many find off putting.
I thought Ariel was just an instigator but he seems to have pretty good reasoning and logic. I think Dana doesnt like him cause he exposes Dana and the UFC
How are you only just realising this now?
@@stevethedweeb3846 many people don't
Honestly, welcome to the club! Journalists should never be popular among millionaires, if rich men hate ariel, that's a good thing
@@bradynshenberger2940 preach bro
In the early years of MMA Ariel was kind of instigator and douchey, but now he has come a long way and I can see his credibility
"did anyone with some notoriety, anyone that's not in a 5 dollar wig give the fight to Paddy?" LOL Ariel is funny
😂😂😂
What the eff is wrong with rick?! The guy always has a chip on his shoulder and try's to delegate truth and logic with his ego's own sense of Intelligence. It's obnoxious dude. Everyone needs to put Douglass Crosby on blast! Fire that judge! The fact that Ariel is the only journalist talking about this issue in detail, shows how dumb and dirty dana and the rest of the mma community is.
Love your opinions and analysis, Ariel. I’ve been following you since early 2009. It’s awesome that you’ve not let the additional fame go to your head. However, I have seen you grow more confident over time. You win MMA journalist of the Year every year for good reason. You’re unafraid to speak your mind. And you support your opinions with data/receipts. I may not always agree, but I always respect your thought process and how you reach the conclusions you have. Respect! 👊
Get off his nuts, and no before anyone replies i don’t like Paddy
Agreed! Cheers! 💯🇨🇦👍
It went straight to his shnozz
@@fugginrambo yes you get the point 😂
There should be live scoring. No other sport keeps the scores secret until the end. The fighters should be able to know how they’re doing during the fight. Keep each judge accountable as the fight rolls on, so there can be live accountability for their decisions in front of thousands of people. The pressure from so many eyes will make the scores conform to reality naturally.
It’s crazy because Doug Crosby scored both of those fights for 2 different styles lol. He gave Sabatello the fight for wrestling & control time but gave Paddy the fight on damage.
GET IN THE HOLE DOUG
"It's safe to say the Judges aren't being influenced by the UFC"? One of the Fertittas was a member of the Neveda Athletic Commission. They said themselves that the judging is a constant issue. Paddy and Omalley are both fighters that are being pushed by the UFC and both of those guys recently won fights that nobody thought they should've won. Its pretty clear what's going on here. The fight business has ALWAYS been corrupt.
Hmm as someone who’s been in boxing for 21 years, someone who’s a boxing trainer, you mma fans have had knives to our throats. Never turning down a opportunity to kick our sport down. I knew it would come a day where you as well, would experience some of the worst things boxing fans go through. Welcome to that time, welcome to the corruption. It won’t change, it’s here to stay. It’s cancer, already too late though. It’s here. How’s it feel? How’s it feel to know a sport you love has been corrupted? Crawling with snake oil salesman and leashes.
And I never knew that mafia family(not me stereotyping, Conor himself said that Family was Mob related)was apart of that commission. Mob guys ALWAYS have been around the fight business
Bro don't put omalley in this conversation. He had a tough close fight with the #1 bantamweight. Paddy got 30-27'ed by JARED GORDON
Exactly. I don't understand why Yans team didn't tell him he has to have a finish over OMethy to win. Same for Gordon.
Then complain to the NSAC!! Don't blame Dana and the UFC! There have been many fights that Dana complained about the decision of the judges.
Put Paddy against Dan Hooker. Huge step up for Paddy and an even bigger pay day for Dan. Dan gets the W in my opinion and this whole Paddy fad gets put to an end. Coming from someone who liked this dude and the energy he brought to the sport, his reputation is like a slow burning house about the collapse on itself.
Dan fights in slow motion now idk I think paddy could sub him. But I agree with everything else
@@weezybaby226Paddy walks in a landmine with Dan
Dan will lose without a finish. You cannot win a decision against Paddy, OMethy, or Conor.
Dan will knock paddy out cold
good matchmaking
Not even a huge fan of Ariel. But proper respect to the main Mma journalist of our generation 🙏 Ariel deserves better
Does anyone remember a month or two ago where the scorecard was changed in the middle of the octagon? That seems a lot more suspect now.
I lost money on that Karolina fight, and the Gordon fight 😅 I'm sure many people did, its rigged
I'm sure Dana has some judge's and some of the commission in his pocket 🤫
Hmm as someone who’s been in boxing for 21 years, someone who’s a boxing trainer, you mma fans have had knives to our throats. Never turning down a chance to kick our sport down. I knew it would come a day where you as well, would experience some of the worst things boxing fans go through. Welcome to that time, welcome to the corruption. It won’t change, it’s here to stay. It’s cancer, already too late though. It’s here. How’s it feel? How’s it feel to know a sport you love has been corrupted? Crawling with snake oil salesman and leashes.
@@Ishbikes you can tell you’re older lol nobody uses the term snake oil salesman anymore. But you right 😢😂
@@TheDildaddy 🤣lol yea man, I’ll be 40 in a few years.. the lingo has definitely changed
@@Ishbikes Damn, I'm 33 and use the term snake oil salesman. Am I "older," too?
@@brodyhall It’s all perception and relative, we learned that phrase from the generation before us. I had a meeting yesterday, the guy was 61..I told him I was getting older, then he proceeded to call me “a baby.” “34? Man you’re a baby.” Same as I would call someone in their early 20’s who felt they were old. It’s business still to be done, Dana White didn’t become financially free until his late 30’s. He was the face at 33 but he wasn’t a millionaire..the Fertitta brothers were the billionaires who owned the company.
Easiest way to fix this is to get rid of the judges and have all fights be to the death.
🤣🤣🤣
Diaz fans all over this. He WoULDve WoN iF tHEre wAS nO TiiME lIMit
*The rebuilding of the Colosseum has commenced*
@@ThatNorwegianGuy- i need work bro. Remember me mr foreman
Between the beef with Ariel, the lackluster performance, and begging Dana for 50K, I’ve lost a ton of respect for Paddy over the last 5 days
Paddy had the nerve to tell Rogan that he would be paying Paddy for an interview
hes in over his head rn
As if Dave Portnoy isn’t biased in this situation lol
Ariel is a beast. He is a shining example that you do not need to resort to violence to destroy someone. Long love the GOAT 🐐 Helwani. Big up from the UK!
Paddy will get the Jim Miller & Joe Lauzon schedule for 2023
15:30 I get it BUT when promoters have the power/authority/influence to not want certain judges on their cards, that will create other problems. U know what I'm getting at right? That means promoters COULD also use their power to influence the judges' scoring - "if u don't do this, we don't want u on our cards" Under the circumstances, it's an unlikely that big promoters would do that since the risk is tremendous but it does put the promoters in position to do so. Great discussion btw, keep it up
I agree 100% with Ariel. I’ve never really thought the UFC blatantly fixes fights, but I do think there are instances where they make it clear who they want to win, which will influence the judges
What the eff is wrong with rick?! The guy always has a chip on his shoulder and try's to delegate truth and logic with his ego's own sense of Intelligence. It's obnoxious dude. Everyone needs to put Douglass Crosby on blast! Fire that judge! The fact that Ariel is the only journalist talking about this issue in detail, shows how dumb and dirty dana and the rest of the mma community is.
@Regis Johnson found the one out of 10 blonde haired clown who won't except that paddy lost, like literally every other fan, professional, and content creator knows 🤣
@Regis Johnson You have an unpopular opinion, most people disagree. So theres that. Hard to argue that you're right when everyone disagrees with you.
@Regis Johnson so 99% of people are wrong, and you`re part of the 1% who got it all figured out? LMAOOOO. not sure what world you live in. stop embarassing yourself in the comment section
@Regis Johnson the decision was so bad those judges are under criminal investigation. douglas crosby, one of the judges is facing possible jail time.
why is that, since it was such a great decision. when was the last time any mma judge was under investigation. thats how bad the decision was
These are the conversations that need to be had.
I said multiple times the ONLY round Paddy could've won would be the second. And I didn't even think he won that, but I thought one of the judges could slip it to him. I'm glad you all agreed with me.
Paddy asking for FOTN after that performance is hilarious.
Some fighters take damage worse than others, for example GSP.. He bruised up before the round was over. So visual damage is very subjective. Paddy lost simple, somehow think he won. Jan is a true gentlemen, he knows who won. Paddy reminds me of Sean, now Paddy made the "I want to see him KO'd" list.
Omalley did actual damage and was landing good shots
Ankalaev got beat up for three rounds then turned into a wet blanket. Cut him from the UFC
Sean actually had a close fight though. Rocked Yan in the 2nd and 3rd. Paddy clearly lost 2 rounds
ufc had a "boxing is dead" moment and I'm so glad I missed this PPV.
Na actually the ppv itself was fire! The whole card was finished up until the co main. It sucks all everyone is talking about is 2 fights on a card that had 10 finishes in a row.
@@iiRolltide that's what I've heard after seeing the initial result of the main event and then reading more into it. It sucks for the undercard that the two big fights overshadowed everything else.
@@coryfusting9294 The main event was a great, back and forth fight. It's just the judging of the comain and maybe the main too and a combination of Dana White throwing the main event under the bus for no reason as well as Joe Rogan totally disrespecting Jan in the post fight interview.
Hmm as someone who’s been in boxing for 21 years, someone who’s a boxing trainer, you mma fans have had knives to our throats. Never turning down a chance to kick our sport down. I knew it would come a day where you as well, would experience some of the worst things boxing fans go through. Welcome to that time, welcome to the corruption. It won’t change, it’s here to stay. It’s cancer, already too late though. It’s here. How’s it feel? How’s it feel to know a sport you love has been corrupted? Crawling with snake oil salesman and leashes.
@@abdulkarimelnaas7595 honestly I kinda feel Dana a little with the main event. I enjoyed the fight overall until the last round and only because we’d have a light heavyweight champion right now if Jan doesn’t panic and fall over. Dude literally gave magomed a 10-8 round. If he doesn’t just fall over like that they likely end up on the feet longer and is more competitive in the last round and there is no 10-8 and he wins fight. I was watching it with a buddy and when he fell over we were both actually disgusted because we knew there was no chance he was getting up after that.
The criteria is pretty decent but judges suck at executing it.
More judges. 7 judges. All who are previous fighters in some form or another
They need to change the wording if impact to damage.
Not really the scoring system was just taking Boxing scoring and alter it slightly for MMA.
They need atleast 5 judges, who are not biased, Sal d'amato is a shitty judge, you know when he's in the arena, there's going to be a dumb robbery
@@melancholymartialarts7095 That really just costs Dana and the UFC or whoever more money in payoffs.
Nothing will ever change. The fighter that brings in more views starts with a 10-9 automatically.
Out of 24 media judges 11 had it 3-0 Gordon 12 had it 2-1 Gordon 1 had it 2-1 Paddy Crazy they gave him a unanimous decision.
I'll tell you one thing for sure, Ariel genuinely loves this sport, maybe more than anyone.
He cares about the integrity of this sport more than he cares about people's opinions or his personal relationships with the MMA world.
Ariel is responsible for MMA being what it is today, given he's always used his platform to promote a sport and an organization that doesn't appreciate him of want him around, in the UFC.
He doesn't get the credit he deserves.
We need a whole new system. Get rid of significant strikes and change the system to: standing strikes, grounded strikes with control and grounded strikes without control. This means that every strike on the feet is the exact same in terms of how much it means except for knockdowns and when the opponent is visibly rocked. Also, it means that control on the ground and in clinch positions means a lot more and is added with standing strikes.
So for example if you had a fighter with 60 standing strikes and 10 grounded strikes without control. Then you had a fighter with 51 standing strikes but 11 with ground control. The fighter with 11 and 51 would win the round in terms of striking. This would make grapplers stall less because they can dominate with grounded strikes and make up for lost standing strikes. Also it means the bottom fighter or the fighter without control would try to transition more making it a more entertaining fight and more fair to grapplers.
For the grappling element I think it should remain the same in terms of control. So full guard is a neutral position. Dominant positions are where you have control over your opponent and if you strike from these positions you get grounded strikes with control.
Clinching against the cage and being unable to take your opponent down should result in the referee moving the fighters back to the middle of the octagon. If they fail to do this it doesn’t count as cage control if the fighter holding the fighter against the cage isn’t either trying to transition or if they aren’t trying to land strikes. Holding against the cage is a defensive position if it isn’t for you trying to move on with the fight and it rewards the fighter for having good TTD. Takedown defence should also be rewarded more. If you have either the same or more takedown defences than you’re opponents takedowns that means you’ve beat them in the grappling element in that round. Unless you’re 1-1 and 0-0 for takedowns vs takedown defence.
The fact it was unanimous for paddy is crazy
black shirt needs to stop looking to his right every 10 seconds LOL
More like three seconds 😜
Maybe he is haunted by ghosts who knows
Ariel has protected the integrity of the sport of MMA for a long time now. The hero we need
New York Ric always try to act like he's the smartest guy in the room. His takes on this segment were all terrible
I thought the same thing.
Good stuff as always Ariel. Keep this big bus you got now on rolling!
Very enjoyable interview 👏 enjoyed the back and forth between you 3. I felt in the conversation with you all, agree with all of you but the dude in the black shirt is spot on all around
Love you Ariel.. straight up and to the point.. Honest 🙏
What the eff is wrong with rick?! The guy always has a chip on his shoulder and try's to delegate truth and logic with his ego's own sense of Intelligence. It's obnoxious dude. Everyone needs to put Douglass Crosby on blast! Fire that judge! The fact that Ariel is the only journalist talking about this issue in detail, shows how dumb and dirty dana and the rest of the mma community is.
Just imagine if the rolls were reversed. And Paddy performed like Jared and Jared like paddy.. then they gave Jared the fight with paddy's performance..
What do you thing would be happening
Facts
After the Suga Sean v Jan decision combined with ufc 282 Im fairly certain that the UFC is well aware of the faulty judging system and they are not changing them (even tho the sport is still young and it would be more than logical in this situation) exactly because such an abstract system can be interpreted is so many ways. That way the UFC, with support from the judging commisions, can get the result they want in any fight that went to decision. They arent even being subtle with it anymore as shown in ufc 282.
It would be prudent to define what separate means in this context.
For example would it be legal for judges to go to dinner with a promoter?
ny rick is like killashaw talks alot but beats around the bush and goes into nothing
I completely agree with Ariel the problem is the judges and not the criteria. There’s a bigger perpetual problem at work here. It’s not that the judges are scoring the fights differently than the spectators. They’re scoring it differently amongst themselves as well!
Always been confused about the Nottingham Forrest banner in the background but now he has their logo on his laptop as well , can anyone explain why this is ??
Man, if we under the impression that UFC or the boxing orgs have 0 weight over the judges… kool aid.
During the broadcast Joe Rogan asked Daniel Cormier "How many decisions did we have tonight? And Cormier said don't ask that question and shut him down. It was weird.
yeah what was that about???
He meant it as in don’t jinx it because he was enjoying the finishes
If damage/impact is the most important factor then why did gordon lose
And if control time doesn't matter why did it matter on two of the judges scorecards in that third round
Either the judges don't understand the rules or like the 90% of the fandom don't, so either change the judges or change the criteria, because this is clearly not working and it hasn't been working for a long time now, there's like a bad decision every other saturday
I agree with how Ali addressed the issue and tweeted that his fighters will not fight if the commission assigns certain judges to judge the fight. The UFC clearly doesn't care to address the problem. It forces parties to take action immediately and is the best short term solution to the problem. Bad judges have no incentive to change currently.
judges honestly ruined what should have been a great card, Magomed's performance/comeback should be a moment in history but now its a black mark that the UFC wants to forget.
fr man
The judging here reminds me of Rampage vs Machida. After Rampage got the decision he got on the mic and said basically "I don't know how I got the decision. I feel like I just got my ass kicked."
Lmao
Rampage a real one.
I think it also needs to have clearer judging scoring and what they consider more valuable in a fight
I thought Gordon won. But Paddy landed more significant strikes in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Gordon applied alot of "pressure" but did little damage in any round.
This feels like a **beginning of the end** for MMA
100% exactly how I felt. Beginning of the end
Since the Diaz ppv they lost they lost something
especially after the rumours of jorge getting the title shot for edwards. This does feel like the end.
I think one FC can save the Show
Not mma, for UFC
The fact Gordon lost because 2 judges gave Paddy r1 is absurd
I thought Gordon won the first round when I first saw it, but after rewatching it, the argument for Paddy winning it is clear. He was far more active throughout the round. Gordon was on defense the majority of the round and got a takedown. Getting a takedown with no time left, and doing nothing with it, doesn't auto-win rounds anymore. It was a close round that could potentially be called either way, but there's no universe in which it was one-sided in Gordon's favor, and DEFINITELY his round.
About time talking about the judging. Most bad judging is in Vegas and Dana in the past over 20 yrs ago talked about the bad judging in Vegas and was worried about it.
Ariel helwani is keeping mma Alive.
Go on lad
You know who I'd like to see call out Paddy? (Drum roll ........) ... Frankie Edgar. An old fighter, retired, suspect chin from too many hard shots in his aging years, and a legend. I'm sure Paddy would run and hide haha! Also Dana and the UFC would have none of that! The Golden Boy would have his time to shine. Put up, or shut up! I would love to hear Paddy's response to a call-out. And Dana's too. Great job as usual Ariel. Love to hear your opinion on this.
The criteria should be how many standard deviations you fall on average from the other two judges.
That’s alarming, should be on the news networks
In addition to Ariel said about this being one of the worst decisions of the UFC, it's also a poor decision because if they didn't notice with the Sean O'Malley/Yan decision, gifting a fighter that's a rising star prospect a win, usually has adverse effects on their popularity. Fans don't want to see anyone get robbed after fighting their heart out regardless of who they're a fan of. Then it makes it worse when that fighter isn't humble or honest about the poor judging.....
I agree with Ariel at 16:38 despite the other guy's apparent issue with the statement. Paddy's skill level (or lack thereof) relative to Jared -- who is a perennial top-shelf journeyman/gatekeeper to the Top 15 -- was readily apparent on Saturday night. Despite that, Paddy himself and the UFC are running with the official win on his record (understandably, despite my personally scoring it for Gordon).
If they have such faith in him as an up-and-coming contender, anyone else in that same position would at the very least be facing a guy at or near the Top 25: someone who is only one win or two outside the official rankings themselves. I'm talking about guys like Terrance McKinney, Guram Kutateladze, Brad Riddell, Drakkar Klose, CDF, Thiago Moises, Joel Alvarez, Grant Dawson, Drew Dober, Bobby Green, Mark Madsen, etc. (I know many of those guys are booked at the moment, but you know what I mean). Hell, given his win streak it really wouldn't be out of the question to have him fight a ranked guy coming off a loss at this point.
For the UFC to do a reverse face and instead have their new golden boy/cash cow fight, say... Trey Ogden or Nikolas Motta while headlining in London it would certainly say a lot without the UFC needing to actually say anything.
more good work
what is the outcome of changing to 5 judges or 7 judges ????? would it change???
When youve seen some of the boxing score cards over the years and these are the same commissions basically
i don't agree on the damage stuff sometimes when it comes to fights like Bisping v Henderson 2. Dan landed huge shots, big damage. Hurt Bisping bad a couple of times. Bisping "won" the fight though in terms of striking numbers across the board. Should Henderson have won that fight based off of his damage he caused during the fight when his damage was literally FLASHES of decent combos? I don't know.
different commissions have their own set of guidelines to follow. example jones not being able to fight in vegas but moved to cali because he was able to fight there
Well said
After finishing this I’m left with a thought I don’t know ever occurs to people: maybe they themselves are wrong. What triggered this was a comment from the beginning which was if so many people can come to such different thoughts the sport is broken. Is it? How many people have genuinely read a commissions criteria? How many people could recite generally the criteria as it’s laid out? I’d wager tons of people think “paddy lost” but never ever once considered in good faith they got it wrong. I don’t know why we use kid gloves for fans but there is a responsibility to atleast read primary information IF you’re going to be so emotionally invested to the point you have ppl thinking the sport is broken. I’m sorry but that’s a bit preposterous. Every point I previously left below I’m 100% open to being wrong about but each comment is anchored specifically to a line in the NSAC guidelines. Let’s make more conversations that want to go to the realm of robbery begin and end with citation from NSAC scoring criteria. What about the public document suggests paddy couldn’t have won round 3? And how far off are we talking ? Why? Driven by what piece of data? What strike metric which judges are trained to leverage?
1:25 Ariel. I get it man. Trust me of all ppl who loves stats. But paddy had 1 significant strike more to the head round 1 and one fewer overall in round 1. And more significant leg strikes. Jared massacred his body round 1. If judges are going to underweight subconsciously something, it’s going to be significant body shots. Paddy also registered a significant shot on the ground. Given round 1 is where the judges split, thats the biggest miss. And those stats absolutely do not suggest the worst result in mma history. That’s actually pretty close, objectively speaking if we’re honoring stats as we should. Do I think it was right? no. I always get uneasy when judges split 10-9 in the same round. It was incorrect and I think the stats support something closer to a draw. Idc about the optics I care about what the data says. Though Ank vs Jan was not a draw so it wouldn’t have been consecutive draws in my book. But round 3 was splitting hairs too paddy was more active throwing with a couple more sig strikes and Jared had a couple takedowns. Can you not admit that’s close if we remove who the fighters are?
Why do we never really address the fact that corruption could be at play with judging? What is so uncorruptible about an athletic commission? Especially a Vegas commission. Not much is known about the chief dodgy scorecard dealer Doug Crosby but all we do know about him is bad news. Chael has had massive problems with this dude as well as Big John and they are two well respected voices.
That’s a proper quality analysis of the situation, you’re the only one who holds a mirror up to them that’s why they hate you and try and cancel you all the time
If you were sitting cage side hearing the crowd pop everytime paddy threw a punch and at an angle where u saw it land but couldnt tell if its face or arms... this fight would look alot different then on tv
Steve Mazzagatti was cage side for the fights 👀 look into it
What do you think of bringing back tie rounds?
“The scoring needs to be adjusted.” Keeps on saying that even though EVERYONE ELSE is using the same system to judge the fight and come to the same consensus. Wtf are you saying? It’s about getting new, qualified judges and removing ones that have a history. And make Judges accountable by making them attend a post fight pressers. Done. Ariel said it.
They can still corrupt them. What does them not being employees have to do with it? 🤡🤡
With you all the way Aeriel
Forget about a round limit. Main cards should "go the distance" by going until someone taps, gets KO'd, or throws in the towel. No judges, no score cards. Get your undercards to 4 rounds, keep everything the same, and see if compu-box can be improved, and then work on the quality of judges, just for the undercards.
"The judges aren't employees of the UFC". Yes, that is true. However, these judges have a lot of exchanges with the UFC, and are under the umbrella of public policy makers, which ARE influenced by big money, and the UFC is big money. We can't pretend none of these judges are fans of the UFC, fans of MMA, fans of organized fighting, and live in a bubble. They are judges because they obviously have expertise in the sport, which means they have a lot of personal involvement with the sport, whether in the past or the present. This event also happened in Las Vegas, which is the gambling capital of America and the state and city officials benefit directly from UFC success. Also, on the Doug Crosby conversation, let's not forget this guy is very close to people on the hard political right, and has multiple suspect score cards against Chinese fighters.
Facts
Chinese/russian fighters have been robbed a lot lately, there is a bias against them
Bruv…the judges who are picked just need to be trained in mma…we all understand ufc isn’t controlling the decisions…but it’ll always look like that because nothing has changed…these decisions affect the fighter’s entire life..yet it’s nothing too the judges..just sad
The Li Jingliang vs Rodriguez decision was probably as bad as this, if not worse
That was a robbery too
Someone should create a algorithm that can help in the judging process either a program that scores the fight and the judges scores are compared to it somehow or a program that the judges run there scores thou and it compares them to the algorithm that’s built into the system and it computes a 99% accurate score for the wining fighter based on program … I don’t know just a thought and maybe someone way smarter then me could take this idea and make it into something that could work…
in my opinion bad judging stems from betting on fights and or some judges may be getting paid quietly to favor some fighters over others in close gone the distance 3 or 5 round fight
Obviously the judges were in on that. They know who to judge for, so the state can reel in money. And paddy reels in money. He ain’t close to what Conor was skillfully. But hype wise he brings in fans to come all around the world to see him
I think the paddy fight is a bad example for changing the scoring criteria. We all saw Gordon piece up paddy in the first rd and all 3 judges gave the 1st to paddy. That rd was all stand up, no ground was involved yet they scored it like ray charles 😂😂😂
Issue with judging is it's in large part perception. This was a bad call but this really brings into question how fights are scored. Judges are government employees (pencil pushers) who take a course and then get to work fights. We need to systematically change scoring criteria as a whole over just some people "opinions". Because while most can understand the scoring - there's clearly some judges that just simply aren't getting it.
I agree with New York Rick, there needs to be a change in the system. The 10-9 system is too reductive for MMA and there needs to be something that applies the nuance of MMA to the scoring. The system has to change for the scoring to be more reliable.
Dana could of been a little less obvious about protecting Paddy LOL he was so pissed that Jared did so good.
From some one who won alot on paddy by decision, i was in regret mode instaly from round 1 on!!!!! Seeing his chin so open to any left hook had me wishing the betting site offered a cash out at the time
Ive always been a combat sports fan and yes the judging makes no sense and a million other things! The bottom line though is that if the judges mess up this badly this often, its almost naive to think that they arent doing it for a reason! The simplest answer is usually the correct one, so just the scoring being convoluted to people who have the best seats in the house is not a good enough answer! Also ufc and nsac has been working closely for a long time so maybe dana and top ufc people arent doing anything inappropriate but im sure theres plenty other people who have ties with both who im sure could and would figure out ways to get specific favorable outcomes! Who knows though?! Its definitely some crazy stuff and i doubt we the public probably will never get an actual answer!
PS i dont agree with the guy on the right because the criteria is super vague but if he is consistently turning in scorecards that zero people agree with, it has NOTHING to do with the scoring criteria! Its got to do with the guy himself! He should 100% be taken in a room with a big group of his bosses and other people and he should be made to explain his decisions minute by minute while rewatching the fights!
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Not top 10 robberies. Not close. But yes I scored it for Gordon too. Give Paddy Bobby Green next
Anthony Smith made an excellent point on BYM. If Duplesis v. Till round 1 is a 10 - 8, then round 5 of Ankalaev v. Blachowicz can’t be 10- 8. There is no consistency in scoring.
I didn't see the fight, was it a worse decision than Bisping vs Hamill? 🤔