I love Larloch so much, I want to use him in a campaign someday, not as a BBEG or anything because I can't think of any way of defeating him other than somehow removing all his cool affects which isn't fun. Maybe a party needing to enter Warl... Larloch's Crypt for some reason & them having to deal with one of Larlochs quests or become his new experiment, something like that'd be fun
He is definitley one of my favroite villains of all time. As far as defeating Larloch you can always make some cool idea if you wanted to. Maybe mystra is sick of his s*** and the party have to do something for Mystra to prove their worthy to defeat larloch. She then grants them an item or a boon to circumvent his massive abilities. But then of course you need to get around his lich army, and his contingencies, and his wards...Hey the possiblities are there at least hahaha. I do like the idea of an experiment gone wrong though. Thats a great idea that could be really fun to play around with!
Always struck me as amusing that the go to move for wizards looking to extend their life is lichdom while druids have an option that doesn’t have the old age contingency and would be a spell well worth researching more thoroughly as it effectively backdoors their way into immortality. I feel it perfectly encapsulates how those powerful wizards jealously guard their secrets and seek to accumulate power for themselves instead of sharing it with a circle of Allie’s they can trust for all time.
Just wanted to say, I’m barely scratching the surface on D&D, game and lore-wise, and I appreciate the time, scripting, editing etc that it takes to make any video like this, for the public. Hope some of these blow up over time with the recent boom in interest.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I really appreciate it! Honestly, I am barely scratching the surface as well, I pretty much just research, take notes, write, and get editing. I will say though that I really like this process and am already working on more so hopefully you will stick around and continue to learn with me!
You know, recently I’ve seen a fan made book about what if all villains of dnd won. Tiamat, Vecna, Gods are unavailable, Elminster is running away. And my first thought was “Wait, but Larloch would’ve solved it no doubt”.
I know this is a big ask, but could you post your references for when you found this information? I would LOVE very much to have a look at them. And see what I can do with it in my games. This was AMAZING. I have NEVER heard of Larlock. (I'm not much for "leisure" reading.) But this is very intriguing to say the least. He has so much potential for almost any game you might have in mind. Filling any roll, good/bad/indifferent/other. I might just have him as a staple in all my campaigns. Just to see what my players would do with him. Love the video. (First one of yours I've seen. INSTANT sub.)
I am so glad you enjoyed the video! Welcome to the channel and thanks for the support I really appreciate it! Larloch is one of those villains that I love because yes he is technically evil, but he is more interested in reading than doing evil things. His goal of learning all about magic is must more broad and interesting than that of other villains who just want power to become a rule or a god. His characeter just opens up so many avenues for DMs to experiment with that its just fun considering possibilities of what he might be up to. ANd honestly, a LOT of my information comes from the wiki (forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larloch) alongside a bunch of different forums abot liches i.e. (www.enworld.org/threads/vecna-v-acererak-v-larloch-whos-the-most-powerful-lich.666221/) Unfortunatley I didnt save most of the other forums I read I just took notes but id be happy to answer any questions you might have!!!
Larloch tech isn’t the only lich to get a pass or “protection” from mystra . If you havnt done one yet, you should do a vid on Daurgothoth. Basically the Dragon lich version of Larloch.
I was actually looking into Daurgothoth but I struggled to find substantial information for an entire video. Althought, I must admit I didn's spend too much time looking. I will definitley take another look!
Yea, I already mentioned in another comment I think adding a god to the comparison might have been a mistake for this reason. My logic is this. If your plan is to utilize Tharizdun as a BBEG to be defeated by PCs, then that god can be defeated by mortals. So by that logic whats to say Larloch couldn't do the same? If you disagree with that, than comparing Thariz'dun to the likes of Asmodeus or Tiamat isn't a fair comparison either.
@@ThisCrits Defeating a deity is often very different than defeating some creature with an HP total. With the god you have to seal them away, bargain with them, disinterest them in the world, or something not related to actually physically defeating them. Because you really can't. But the same would be true about Asmodeus and Tiamat, and likely Vecna too now. Any deity above demigod status honestly can't be killed by mortals, no matter how powerful they are. Even though it's pretty much virtually impossible with Larloch as well. You did the job of introducing an interesting and lesser known insanely powerful BBEG to the game though. Great job!
@@sirellyn Yea and thats why I think I made a mistake bringing gods into the discussion. Oh well, I learned for next time hahah. Thank you very much I really appreciate it!
He's definitely the inspiration for Ainz Ooal Gown! What a cool concept for a Lich "I don't care about humans, and I'll do any research I need on the rude/annoying ones and if I give my word to someone, I will keep it"
@@ThisCrits I'd suggest reading the Light Novels for the clear info and D&D social interaction which the anime rushes most of the times but it truly is a breath of fresh air from the typical hero trope. I'd suggest reading the oneshot bonus novel(The Vampire Princess of the Lost Country *cough which is found in the black libraries of the net*cough ;) ) if you want to wet your feet as there are 16Vols atm with 2 more before the story is completed according to the author. From a fans PoV the story can go 30 or more vols but the publisher gave him a really bad deal since he still works a day job when it's really popular
Thats why I love Larloch. Because he isn't just good or bad, he has more to his story than just being Evil and summoning undead. His charcter is interesting because his goal isnt hollow like other villains. Larloch just wants to learn everything he can about magic but doesnt go about killing everything to do so. But he also isnt above doing terribly evil things to forward his goals.
I think Larloch is pretty soundly D&D’s most powerful, and formidable lich. Vecna is too arrogant, and has great difficulty assessing his own weaknesses. He can’t conceive of losing even though he does it all the time .Acererak is basically just a joker lich. He doesn’t legitimately care about anything, he embraced eternity essentially just so he could have fun with it. Larloch has the serious dedication that Acererak lacks, and the humility and self awareness that Vecna lacks. He’s the best of all lich worlds.
You know I polled a bunch of people in online dnd communities and vs battle communities in a dnd lich battle royale with a very similar question, The combatants were Vecna, Acererak, Larloch, Szass Tam, and Daurgothoth. Of course the battle was more of an all out lich war because in a 1v1 its a pretty clear stomp for Daurgothoth but when taking into acount resources and strategy I think that potentially evens the playing field. So far both polls came out as a two way tie for 1st between Vecna and Daurgothoth, 2nd being Szass Tam, 3rd Acererak, and 4th Larloch Though I suspect Szass Tam and Larloch’s placement is the way it is just because people are more familiar with one over the other, since the lore shows that Larloch is somewhat of a mentor to Szass who actually works under him as well. Anyways im curious what everyone here thinks as well.
Being that Acererak came in 3rd I am pretty much 100% sure Larloch came in last because so few people actually know about his character. Personally, I would venture to say the Larloch win against everyone aside from Vecna/Daurgothoth and between those 3, it really might just be a roll of the dice who might win.
@@ThisCrits Yeah its a really interesting matchup and honestly I was kinda thinking about trying to build a campaign around the concept and using the polls as a way to gauge the expected odds of victory between each Lich and their forces. That said your input here is quite valuable as someone who actually knows the lore. So thank you!
@@someoneonyoutube8622 I really like that campaign concept! Have you ever gone through the out of the abyss module for 5e? If not and your not worried about spoilers, there may be comething in there that might help with that campaign idea.
@@ThisCrits I have the module but I’ve yet to run it. Its on my list of things to do as I often like to start with preplanned modules before branching into homebrewed campaigns. I will definitely be giving it a look through a bit closer now though so thank you again!
@@someoneonyoutube8622 Its one of my favorite pre-built modules but it is pretty bad with just leaving some information out. But for what we are talking about take a look at chapter 17!
The more I read comments the more I think including a god in the comparisons was a mistake hahah. Tharizdun is indeed one of the most powerful beings in existence.
@@ThisCrits Tharizdun is a multiversal threat. It's said that if he ever breaks free of his prison every god from every pantheon will put aside their differences to imprison him again. Even without including gods in the comparison, Daurgothoth was statted at CR 50 back in 3.5 compared to Larloch's CR 35
@@mak31589 Yea Tharizdun is no joke, honestly he is one character I really want to know more about specifically because of his relationships with other gods. Daurgothoth is one of those NPCs I wasn't made aware of until this video went live. Looking into the character he looks super interesting althought I am struggling to find much "backstory" about him. Do you have any reference information so i can read up on him? I am really curious about him hahah
I think there was a dragolich. who mystra gave a pass too. Can't remember who, but I remember that the dragon was trying to combine draconic breaths and making new breath weapons like breath weapon of mage's disjunction. It was in Mr rhexx's videos in the most powerful monster of all time playlist.
your referring to Daurgothoth or the "creeping doom" the Black Great wyrm dracolich. Wonderful chap and surely amazing as well. Reference: Dragon magazine #234 Mr Rexx Video on most powerfl dragons/monsters of D&D Dragons of Faerun(August 2006) pg 42,54-55 and 148 Cult of Dragons sorcebook (Jan 1998) Draconomicon:chromatic dragons
Might need a slight correction Larloch is one of only 2 spell casters (known) that she has forbade her clerics from interfering with there is a certain Dracolich as well...
@@ThisCrits The good one she doesn't specifically name but likely because the good ones already have divine protections and the evil ones have to earn it...and then there it the neutral Elminster who wouldn't tip the scales by inventing a new spell, well at least share one.
Ok... this is my best attempt at spelling out a possible phonetic pronunciation of that Dragon's name. I don't claim it to be correct, it's just how my brain decided it might be pronounced...
That sounds a lot more realistic than what I guessed it was. When I recorded that section I actually tried t osay his name 8 times and decided it was too difficult and just ended up with what you saw in the video hahaha
I really enjoy your videos and your perspective on lore. I have a question about Lorlock, if he doesn't do villainous things or act with villainous intent, is he really a villain? I want to use him as a warlock patron in search if knowledge...
Thanks a bunch! I have another lore video coming out soon covering another big name in D&D lore i'm really excited about! The thing about Larloch, from my understanding, is even if he doesn't "Act" like a typical villain that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't evil. The dude is very much a "bad guy" in the sense he will do whatever he can in his goal of learning everything he can about magic. I think the main difference is his goal. Its just to learn everything there is to know about magic. Compare that to someone like Vecna who activley seeks out godhood and you can see 2 very different goals and 2 very different ways of achieving their goals.
Wasn't that with the help of Elminster? I could bre wrong but I found very little informatio about that. If you know where I could find it I woud realllllly like to read it!!!
Yea I think he has a couple althought most of my experience is 3.5e/5e so I never really got to experience them. And it is very very very possible I mispronounced netherese hahah
Maybe? Larloch is definitley one of the strongest, but it is essentially impossible to weight one villains power over another. This is especially tricky when we bring gods into the equation. I suppose it really depends on how much weight you place on being a "diety" or "primordial".
And this is why I say no one will ever agree on this topic haha. I dont really understand why people think Gods > everything. There are plenty of examples of gods being "defeated" by mortals. I must admit I am not familiar with Amelyssan but assuming shes not a god I don't know where they fall into the tier list haha.
![[Live] : ONE 168 วันนี้!! "โจนาธาน vs ซุปเปอร์เล็ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jIN65KgJsI/mqdefault.jpg)
I love Larloch so much, I want to use him in a campaign someday, not as a BBEG or anything because I can't think of any way of defeating him other than somehow removing all his cool affects which isn't fun. Maybe a party needing to enter Warl... Larloch's Crypt for some reason & them having to deal with one of Larlochs quests or become his new experiment, something like that'd be fun
He is definitley one of my favroite villains of all time. As far as defeating Larloch you can always make some cool idea if you wanted to. Maybe mystra is sick of his s*** and the party have to do something for Mystra to prove their worthy to defeat larloch. She then grants them an item or a boon to circumvent his massive abilities. But then of course you need to get around his lich army, and his contingencies, and his wards...Hey the possiblities are there at least hahaha.
I do like the idea of an experiment gone wrong though. Thats a great idea that could be really fun to play around with!
Always struck me as amusing that the go to move for wizards looking to extend their life is lichdom while druids have an option that doesn’t have the old age contingency and would be a spell well worth researching more thoroughly as it effectively backdoors their way into immortality.
I feel it perfectly encapsulates how those powerful wizards jealously guard their secrets and seek to accumulate power for themselves instead of sharing it with a circle of Allie’s they can trust for all time.
Ya know, I never thought about it like this but it sure makes a lot of sense hahaha. I am a huge fan of duirds.
Just wanted to say, I’m barely scratching the surface on D&D, game and lore-wise, and I appreciate the time, scripting, editing etc that it takes to make any video like this, for the public. Hope some of these blow up over time with the recent boom in interest.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I really appreciate it! Honestly, I am barely scratching the surface as well, I pretty much just research, take notes, write, and get editing. I will say though that I really like this process and am already working on more so hopefully you will stick around and continue to learn with me!
You know, recently I’ve seen a fan made book about what if all villains of dnd won. Tiamat, Vecna, Gods are unavailable, Elminster is running away. And my first thought was “Wait, but Larloch would’ve solved it no doubt”.
That sounds interesting! Do you happen to have the name of the book?
@@ThisCrits Doomed Forgotten Realms. I think they have two or three books about it. Sword Coast Gazetteer, Rise of Vecna, and another one.
@@user-qd9pk9ld7t Awesome thanks! I'm going to look into these hahah
I know this is a big ask, but could you post your references for when you found this information? I would LOVE very much to have a look at them. And see what I can do with it in my games. This was AMAZING. I have NEVER heard of Larlock. (I'm not much for "leisure" reading.) But this is very intriguing to say the least. He has so much potential for almost any game you might have in mind. Filling any roll, good/bad/indifferent/other. I might just have him as a staple in all my campaigns. Just to see what my players would do with him.
Love the video. (First one of yours I've seen. INSTANT sub.)
I am so glad you enjoyed the video! Welcome to the channel and thanks for the support I really appreciate it!
Larloch is one of those villains that I love because yes he is technically evil, but he is more interested in reading than doing evil things. His goal of learning all about magic is must more broad and interesting than that of other villains who just want power to become a rule or a god. His characeter just opens up so many avenues for DMs to experiment with that its just fun considering possibilities of what he might be up to.
ANd honestly, a LOT of my information comes from the wiki (forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larloch) alongside a bunch of different forums abot liches i.e. (www.enworld.org/threads/vecna-v-acererak-v-larloch-whos-the-most-powerful-lich.666221/)
Unfortunatley I didnt save most of the other forums I read I just took notes but id be happy to answer any questions you might have!!!
@@ThisCrits thank you. This is a starting place, and that is good enough.
So, as my rabbitflok abjuration wizard would say. "To the books!"
@@joshuadillon8893 Of course! Have fun and enjoy!!!
Larloch tech isn’t the only lich to get a pass or “protection” from mystra . If you havnt done one yet, you should do a vid on Daurgothoth. Basically the Dragon lich version of Larloch.
I was actually looking into Daurgothoth but I struggled to find substantial information for an entire video. Althought, I must admit I didn's spend too much time looking. I will definitley take another look!
If you are counting Asmodeus and Tiamat, you might as well count Tharizdun. He beats them ALL hands down.
Yea, I already mentioned in another comment I think adding a god to the comparison might have been a mistake for this reason. My logic is this. If your plan is to utilize Tharizdun as a BBEG to be defeated by PCs, then that god can be defeated by mortals. So by that logic whats to say Larloch couldn't do the same?
If you disagree with that, than comparing Thariz'dun to the likes of Asmodeus or Tiamat isn't a fair comparison either.
@@ThisCrits Defeating a deity is often very different than defeating some creature with an HP total.
With the god you have to seal them away, bargain with them, disinterest them in the world, or something not related to actually physically defeating them. Because you really can't.
But the same would be true about Asmodeus and Tiamat, and likely Vecna too now. Any deity above demigod status honestly can't be killed by mortals, no matter how powerful they are.
Even though it's pretty much virtually impossible with Larloch as well.
You did the job of introducing an interesting and lesser known insanely powerful BBEG to the game though. Great job!
@@sirellyn Yea and thats why I think I made a mistake bringing gods into the discussion. Oh well, I learned for next time hahah. Thank you very much I really appreciate it!
He's definitely the inspiration for Ainz Ooal Gown!
What a cool concept for a Lich "I don't care about humans, and I'll do any research I need on the rude/annoying ones and if I give my word to someone, I will keep it"
Thats why I love the character. He is not the typical *World domination* mumbo jumbo he just wants to learn everything he can lol.
Also, side note, I never watched that show, is it any good?
@@ThisCrits I'd suggest reading the Light Novels for the clear info and D&D social interaction which the anime rushes most of the times but it truly is a breath of fresh air from the typical hero trope.
I'd suggest reading the oneshot bonus novel(The Vampire Princess of the Lost Country *cough which is found in the black libraries of the net*cough ;) ) if you want to wet your feet as there are 16Vols atm with 2 more before the story is completed according to the author.
From a fans PoV the story can go 30 or more vols but the publisher gave him a really bad deal since he still works a day job when it's really popular
To me he really doesn’t sound like a villain.
It can be yes but he just chills in his studies.
Thats why I love Larloch. Because he isn't just good or bad, he has more to his story than just being Evil and summoning undead. His charcter is interesting because his goal isnt hollow like other villains. Larloch just wants to learn everything he can about magic but doesnt go about killing everything to do so. But he also isnt above doing terribly evil things to forward his goals.
I think Larloch is pretty soundly D&D’s most powerful, and formidable lich. Vecna is too arrogant, and has great difficulty assessing his own weaknesses. He can’t conceive of losing even though he does it all the time .Acererak is basically just a joker lich. He doesn’t legitimately care about anything, he embraced eternity essentially just so he could have fun with it. Larloch has the serious dedication that Acererak lacks, and the humility and self awareness that Vecna lacks. He’s the best of all lich worlds.
I loovvveee Larloch as a character because of that. You summed up Vecna and Acererak perfectly!
Been aware of D&D since the early 80s. Tried it a couple of times, but not my thing. I know next to nothing about it, but, it was a good video.
Dungeons and Dragons isn't for everyone, but I can say that if you like a good story D&D has a lot of really interesting lore! Thank you very much!!!
You know I polled a bunch of people in online dnd communities and vs battle communities in a dnd lich battle royale with a very similar question,
The combatants were Vecna, Acererak, Larloch, Szass Tam, and Daurgothoth.
Of course the battle was more of an all out lich war because in a 1v1 its a pretty clear stomp for Daurgothoth but when taking into acount resources and strategy I think that potentially evens the playing field.
So far both polls came out as a two way tie for 1st between Vecna and Daurgothoth, 2nd being Szass Tam, 3rd Acererak, and 4th Larloch
Though I suspect Szass Tam and Larloch’s placement is the way it is just because people are more familiar with one over the other, since the lore shows that Larloch is somewhat of a mentor to Szass who actually works under him as well.
Anyways im curious what everyone here thinks as well.
Being that Acererak came in 3rd I am pretty much 100% sure Larloch came in last because so few people actually know about his character.
Personally, I would venture to say the Larloch win against everyone aside from Vecna/Daurgothoth and between those 3, it really might just be a roll of the dice who might win.
@@ThisCrits Yeah its a really interesting matchup and honestly I was kinda thinking about trying to build a campaign around the concept and using the polls as a way to gauge the expected odds of victory between each Lich and their forces.
That said your input here is quite valuable as someone who actually knows the lore. So thank you!
@@someoneonyoutube8622 I really like that campaign concept! Have you ever gone through the out of the abyss module for 5e? If not and your not worried about spoilers, there may be comething in there that might help with that campaign idea.
@@ThisCrits I have the module but I’ve yet to run it. Its on my list of things to do as I often like to start with preplanned modules before branching into homebrewed campaigns. I will definitely be giving it a look through a bit closer now though so thank you again!
@@someoneonyoutube8622 Its one of my favorite pre-built modules but it is pretty bad with just leaving some information out. But for what we are talking about take a look at chapter 17!
Tharizdun: Am I joke to you?
The more I read comments the more I think including a god in the comparisons was a mistake hahah. Tharizdun is indeed one of the most powerful beings in existence.
@@ThisCrits Tharizdun is a multiversal threat. It's said that if he ever breaks free of his prison every god from every pantheon will put aside their differences to imprison him again.
Even without including gods in the comparison, Daurgothoth was statted at CR 50 back in 3.5 compared to Larloch's CR 35
@@mak31589 Yea Tharizdun is no joke, honestly he is one character I really want to know more about specifically because of his relationships with other gods.
Daurgothoth is one of those NPCs I wasn't made aware of until this video went live. Looking into the character he looks super interesting althought I am struggling to find much "backstory" about him. Do you have any reference information so i can read up on him? I am really curious about him hahah
I think there was a dragolich. who mystra gave a pass too. Can't remember who, but I remember that the dragon was trying to combine draconic breaths and making new breath weapons like breath weapon of mage's disjunction. It was in Mr rhexx's videos in the most powerful monster of all time playlist.
Are you refering to Nidhogg? If so I am not super familiar with them so it is entirely possible. Looks like I need to do more research!
your referring to Daurgothoth or the "creeping doom" the Black Great wyrm dracolich. Wonderful chap and surely amazing as well.
Reference:
Dragon magazine #234
Mr Rexx Video on most powerfl dragons/monsters of D&D
Dragons of Faerun(August 2006) pg 42,54-55 and 148
Cult of Dragons sorcebook (Jan 1998)
Draconomicon:chromatic dragons
CR 50 Daurghothoth, one of the highest CRs for a named creature.
Might need a slight correction Larloch is one of only 2 spell casters (known) that she has forbade her clerics from interfering with there is a certain Dracolich as well...
Ive been meaning to do a video on Daurgothoth but havent goten around to it yet!
@@ThisCrits The good one she doesn't specifically name but likely because the good ones already have divine protections and the evil ones have to earn it...and then there it the neutral Elminster who wouldn't tip the scales by inventing a new spell, well at least share one.
Ok... this is my best attempt at spelling out a possible phonetic pronunciation of that Dragon's name. I don't claim it to be correct, it's just how my brain decided it might be pronounced...
That sounds a lot more realistic than what I guessed it was. When I recorded that section I actually tried t osay his name 8 times and decided it was too difficult and just ended up with what you saw in the video hahaha
I really enjoy your videos and your perspective on lore. I have a question about Lorlock, if he doesn't do villainous things or act with villainous intent, is he really a villain?
I want to use him as a warlock patron in search if knowledge...
Thanks a bunch! I have another lore video coming out soon covering another big name in D&D lore i'm really excited about!
The thing about Larloch, from my understanding, is even if he doesn't "Act" like a typical villain that doesn't necessarily mean he isn't evil. The dude is very much a "bad guy" in the sense he will do whatever he can in his goal of learning everything he can about magic. I think the main difference is his goal. Its just to learn everything there is to know about magic. Compare that to someone like Vecna who activley seeks out godhood and you can see 2 very different goals and 2 very different ways of achieving their goals.
An army of liches dang
He's a beast hahah
Had his arse handed to him by the Srinshee, tho.
Wasn't that with the help of Elminster? I could bre wrong but I found very little informatio about that. If you know where I could find it I woud realllllly like to read it!!!
Tiax rules all.
Tiax is insane! hahah
Larloch had a few necromancy spells named after him in previous editions.
And I thought netherese was pronounced so it rhymed with Portuguese.
Yea I think he has a couple althought most of my experience is 3.5e/5e so I never really got to experience them.
And it is very very very possible I mispronounced netherese hahah
It’s definitely Asmodeus.
I love Devils in general, and Asmodeus is definitley a powerful Archdevil. Its very possible he could be the most powerful.
Sooooo he's stronger than Atropus?
Maybe? Larloch is definitley one of the strongest, but it is essentially impossible to weight one villains power over another. This is especially tricky when we bring gods into the equation. I suppose it really depends on how much weight you place on being a "diety" or "primordial".
I mean, you cannot be stronger than the god and Amelyssan from throne of bhaal is one.
And this is why I say no one will ever agree on this topic haha. I dont really understand why people think Gods > everything. There are plenty of examples of gods being "defeated" by mortals. I must admit I am not familiar with Amelyssan but assuming shes not a god I don't know where they fall into the tier list haha.