None of the Greenback reissues sound like an original greenback IMHO. They sound good in their own right, but the voicing is very different. The mic placement in this example favors the G12C. If the mic was placed at the edge of the dust cap the G12M would have sounded better and the G12C would have been thin and harsh. I saw a guy who sanded the cone of a reissue greenback and made it sound better. His name was Johan something or other............................
In your examples, I prefer the G12C. They're quite different though. Nothing wrong with the old greenback, of course. But the G12C cuts through better while still having that old school vibe.
This is no less than synchronicity, Johan. You're making a demonstration of exactly the T1221 it has taken me 2 years to find. I will put together with 2 x T1217 graybacks from June 73. I wanted so much to hear the greenback, but haven't got it yet.... and then you present a great demonstration with a greenback equivalent to the quad I have right now. Cheers Johan. God helg
Thanks for the video Johan. I have always wondered how they compare. I have the original purple Vintage Modern 2466 and matching 425A cab with the greenback reissues. It is absolutely mint and even has all the manufacturers stickers still on it, haha. I have had it since it came out. The VM is really a versatile amp and for a long time it was misunderstood. I am happy to see it get some love! Excellent riffs as always Johan! 🎸🤘🏻 - Kurt
I've had the Vintage Modern combo with two G12Cs, a VM 425a slant cab (G12Cs) and a '68 1960b cab with G12M 25w 1221 003 Pulsonics. The Pulsonics sound smoother and project a bit more midrange. The G12Cs sound brighter, not as broken in. Both are just like the sound in Johann's video. They compliment each other very well! When gigging, I is the Vintage Modern (425A) on top of or next to the '68 (1960B) with a YJM100 attenuated to the venue. I can attribute much of the difference to varying speaker break-in amounts. Also, the cab construction varies with grill cloth, bracing, solid vs MDF backs accounting for a measure of different voicing. But the speakers themselves have 40 years between then with different materials and atmospheric conditioning. YMMV. Btw the G12-65 sounds great like a more aggressive Pulsonics
If you want to go back and forth quickly: left = more close mic middle= close mic/room mic right = more room mic (this is the configuration you players (not studio) should refer to, what you would hear when playing. I think in this configuration they come very close in character, mayber rounder highs for solo on the pulsonic one, but G12C top end gives a nice clarity especially for clean) last line = more close mic 1 1:191:36 2 1:502:07 3 2:222:39 4 2:573:20 6 3:494:12 8 4:415:04 5 3:053:29 7 3:574:21 9 4:495:13 10 5:305:49 11 6:086:21 12 6:366:45 13 6:577:11 14 7:287:40
I like the original G12M for lead and the G12C for rhythm. The C was shrill in the lead but tight in rhythm. The M was muddy on rhythm and so smooth in the leads.
Do you think it wise to use the lead 12 for this comparison? I don’t know if Marshall employed an underdamped design in the output section in this solid state amp. But if they didn’t, which is common, then the results bear no resemblance to how these speakers react in a tube amplifier
Great comparison Johan 👍 I just fitted a 1960BHW with 2 x reissue G12M's and 2 x G12C. Great combination! The C's make up for what the M's lack in high mids.
Johan, I love your speaker demos (all of your videos really) and have learned a lot from them. I must ask the question, how well are the newer speakers used in the demos broken in? I wonder how the newer speakers will sound after 30+ years of use and ageing? Keep up the great informative work! It is such a blessing to have access to all of the great gear you get to play and educate us with!
I like the 1972. They are both good, but the original just has that sound from back in the day. Seems like most companies reissue speakers put emphasis on the highs more. Just make a reissue that sounds the same! Great video Johan!
I like that the G12C has more presence. I would think if you cut back the Treble a bit on the amp, you could possibly replicate the sound of the '72. I would like to hear this comparison with a tube amp, since that's what the G12C was designed to be used with.
That G12C is a really great-sounding speaker. I like it a lot. I think I like it better than the old G12M, at least in this recording setup. It sounds "fuller," like its freq response is wider and more balanced. The old Greenback sounds a bit like it was recorded with high and low cut filters, almost, compared to the G12C, kind of mid-rangey and AM-radio low-fi. I wonder if Marshall/Celestion were going for a speaker that was kind of a mix of old G12M's and G12H's? While they're both great-sounding speakers, I think I'd prefer a 4X12 full of G12C's over G12M's (even old ones, maybe), based on this test, anyway.
To my ears the g12c has more hi/mid with more breakup as for the g12m has more low/mid with less breakup. Together in a cabinet they partner well. Thank you again Johan for another amazing comparison.
The older greenback is pretty dark but has a lovely, punchy midrange. The G12C has the high end about right for my taste but the mids are weird, as though some frequencies are being notched out. Maybe outfitting a cab with one (or a pair) of each would do the trick. ☺️
The original one sounds sweet and articulate with that distinctive low-mid bump. The new one sounds good, but nothing more than "good". Awesome video Johan!
both sound really good, my personal preference is the original G12M, the reissue does sound good and has a classic tone but to me the original sounds much richer and great bass response. could it be the aging process? Love the Ace-like riffing and the Lead 12 is a nice little amp. Great comparison and appreciate the lengths you go through to show the differences. thank you, Johan, have a great weekend.
You can hear the difference in the chords. The G12m vintage sounds like Humble Pie 1970 Rockin the Filmore or early 70's Zeppelin. Whereas the modern G12C sounds like Kiss Alive mid 70's. Both gr8! I prefer the smooth woodiness and gorgeous bite of the vintage but the exciting and more top end of the modern G12C is quite good also, especially when you play leads up top. Which means to me, Celestion is now making pretty respectable new speakers! Bravo Johan!
@@alanst.4417 Yes , but isn't that a bass cone for a G12H ? I have a couple 1970 G12H reconed with 1777 . But mine sound like the M far more than the C
I actually liked the newer one better in this comparison. They both sounded great, but sometimes I favour a brighter tone, which the G12C has, compared to the G12M. On another note Johan, I might be able to score 2 G12M-65 (original) speakers. Thinking about putting them in an X-pattern in my bone stock 1960A cabinet (then somewhere along the road, supplant it with a pair of greenback/creamback speakers). How do you feel about the G12M-65s? They've got 444 cones and are 15 ohms. @Johan Segerborn
I think the test is what it is, its this specific speaker on this specific day on this specific amp, however its not the period on the conversation since the state of break in and material age play a part in the differences, the G12C's may end up sounding better with age. As a Jensen speaker engineer once stated when trying to capture the essence of the 1960s 50 watt speakers, he was given complete company backing to buy up over 100 original Jensen loaded Fender cabs from the 60s to get an idea of their core sound so that he could make a reissue of their famous 50 watt speaker, however problems quickly arose when almost every cab sounded different despite being of the same vintage and spec...the wild card? how much wear & use each speaker incurred over its lifetime and also where they were stored even was a factor!. Eventually they did find out what the core sound was, but it was a compromise at best. When it comes to speakers, comparing can often be a challenge and hardly a fair test for either speaker, what matters in a situation like this is if it sounds good to you, because there are way too many variables to compared speakers apples to apples. It would be akin to comparing the tolerances in a random old engine to that of a new one and trying to guess how many miles are on it. Personally the speakers did have the same vibe and feel & response, however differences in treble frequency and bass can be eq'ed to factor in for the speaker wear until its broken in.
Thanks for putting this together Johan. Did you have the back removed from the 1933 cabinet during your recording? I think I see the grill cloth of the 412 peeking through from behind. I loved both, but actually prefer the G12C, with its great breakup and more pronounced low-mids. If the cab was indeed open back, that might mean the G12C is a contender (with the G12H30 55) for best-sounding Greenback style speaker in 1x12 open cab. Now we all should email Celestion to request that they release a retail version of the G12C!
The problem with new speakers is they don't have 45-50 years use on them so they Will sound different. This 200X G12C sounds very bright compared to the original G12M. I know I bought a new Celestion Ruby and a Cream Alnico and it took months of playing through both before they finally opened up/broke-in..
I used to have a 425A cab. The G12C has awesome top-end clarity and sweet mids. However, no low end at all. Always sounds like one is playing through a telephone.
Hi John, thanks for that been a lot of chatter about these latley. The old one is such a familiar sound, how could they get the re-issue so wrong? It would not surprise me if there is another model in their new line that sounds closer? Any thoughts.....
Love the G12C! Can you do a comparison of the Silver Jubilee V30 and the stock (Mesa ?) version. The SJ’s are rated at 70W vs stock 60W, so there must be some differences.
The g12c is my favorite greenback that being said ....I own 2-425 A cabinets. I run those with 2-1960 b cabs loaded with v-30h. 70th.anniversary speakers. 1984- 2203 on one and a 1987-2555 jubilee on the other. 2 pedals Dunlop jh-1 wah into a baby boom stereo reverb. The violin on acid...melt my brain sound. Pure sonic bliss.
The Marshall super 100 JH sounds great with G12Cs. It would be interesting to compare the speakers in my stack that has had 14 years of rocking to a speaker that is almost 50 years old.
Sounds great Johan! Have you compared these to the heritage G12M found in the 1974 and 1974cx cabinets? Like the G12C these ones are supposed to be voiced differently for Marshall and differ from the stock Celestion heritage equivalent.
Thanks Mike, not back to back I’m afraid but Metro Amps did that comparison in a video a couple of years ago and it corroborates this difference. Cheers
see greenback g12m even thru a solid state amp still sound amazing wow,that shows that even the cheapest amp would sound amazing thru greenback g12m 70s.its the voicing in the cone thats the magic.
Yeah, to me a 100 bucks amp through an original Greenback is better than any other amp through any other speaker, with the exception of vintage Jensen P12
Johan You have a great mastery of the instrument. I always have a question about the sound quality produced by YT compression algorithm. And by that my concern is if you digitally record the sound and play it back on analog equipment is there a real difference? FYI ....I collected Jimi's autograph in person at the Virginia Beach Dome concert and sat in the front row in 1967. I also went back stage, got some images. If you want an original autograph, images from backstage, my front row ticket from the event, it can be yours as I know you would cherish it as I have. Robert Phelps, Williamsburg Virginia
Thanks! YT compression is not a problem for these sounds. If you had more air or silky top end you might run into problems though. Thanks for the offer but I’d rather see that Jimis signature stays with the original recipient. Cheers
When they stopped making these amps Celestion sold the speakers to Mojotone who put a sticker saying "watchtower" on them :) (They still have the Celestion G12C sticker on the side of the magnet)
Ah, yeah, mojotone it was, with that hippie watchtower stickers. I tried to remember, was sold out when i was on the hunt for a G12C to try. I liked the 72 better here. But they both sound good, just different. Wonder if the C was brand new or properly broken in. Sounded a bit thin in the bottom. Many a review ive heard of my G1235XC is clearly not broken in, and it sounds harsh, a "quality" that will certainly change as the low end breaks through and balances it out in quite a few hours. I take for granted that the -72 was broken in :) Johan knows what he is doing.
From what I have read the G12C was modeled after a 1966 GB with a Mueller type cone. Even original GB sound different. You have Rola and pre-Rola. Aren't the pre Rolas with the pulsonic cone a bit warmer and darker sounding than other vintage GB???? Am I wrong Johan?
it's amazing how different they sound, I simply can't pay the extortionate prices for a vintage celestion, wish I'd have bought some years ago on ebay when they were still cheap, I use the G12H55 which I think sounds close to hendrix and page tones.
Love the G12M's quack.. I would like to see these compared to the G12-EVH.. No videos really out there on the EVH G12M-20 version .. I have one in a AC15 and it sounds much better to my ears then the current Stock greenback Vox put in the amp..
The Van Halen speaker is the 20 watt greenback with a different sticker on the back. Same exact speaker. It was these speakers that were in his old Marshall cabs back in the 70’s. Originals of course not the reissues.
@@chrisjones8977 no I have a heritage.. in a same same cab.. I! The EVH to my ears is more close to a pulsonic I have.. that's why I asked the question... Different cone # English made for sure... I took out the heritage..on recordings the EVH Sounds slightly different.. more close to the original either way.. it's a bargain for that tone... To be honest though I have two pulsonic Alnico greys that came from the same vox super Beatle cab now in 1x12 cabs that sound different from each other.. both very nice but slightly different..
Thanks for another ear candy, Johan. Can't decide which one I like better. The G12M has its trademark round midrange bark, while G12C seems to have more treble and clarity going on. Seems like one of the best reissues with the heritage greenback IMO. Will you try that one someday?
This is probably the closest of any reissue Celestion speaker I've heard, but it still sounds more like those more aggressive late-70's Kurt Mueller cones. A fantastic sound, but STILL not that elusive Pulsonic!
They both sound very good, but they are a bit different: the original Greenback has more midrange and smoother highs than the G12C, which Is a tad brighter and aggressive, I would although be Happy playing With both, cheers Johan!🤟🏼
Have you tried any Heritage Series Celestions? G12M Heritage and G12H Heritage seem to be modeled the closest to the original G12Ms and G12Hs. And there's a video comparing the G12C to the Heritage and it sounds a bit similar to this comparison.
Difference if most likely down to the cone and age/break in. Iv had 73 greenbacks before and have 78 blackbacks also. The 12c sounds like something inbetween those two.
I like the G12C. I bought a four speaker set on ebay some years ago. They were from a VOX Beatles cabinet the seller told me. I think these speakers are the greatest speakers for guitar built by Celestion. I asked Celestion if they had any data. But they didn't know anything about that old stuff anymore .... :-( They appear to be silver and black not green and black. Maybe it is another series.
both sound great, but different. would be nice to put the g12c and the old g12m in a 2x12 cab, close mic both and blend them together in the mix. thanks to Johan I allways buy more speakers, need a g12c now too, as it is missing in my greenback-collection... ;o)
Hi Johan from California. About 6 years ago (my gosh, has it been that long?) You compared the Celestion G12-35XC Vs Heritage 55Hz. I am hearing some similarities in the differences between speakers in that comparison to the comparison today. Would you be able to do one more test with the G12C, and compare it to the Celestion G12-35XC, and maybe add a G-12H. I think your listeners would want to know what else in Celestion's line is similar to this (difficult to get) G12C.
I think that G12C sounds really nice. It's really interesting though that every modern reissue of the Greenback has the mids up in a higher spot, compared to the lower-mid focus of the originals. Does anyone have any idea on why Celestion either won't, or can't get the modern reissues to have that lower-mid thing that the originals have? The only modern Greenback type speaker that I hear that in (from clips) is the Scumback M55 or M75.
In isolation I prefer the vintage speaker, but I'm sure the new one would do well in a mix. Perhaps they would pair together nicely in a 2x12 with a mic on each cone.
How about aging that new speaker to the extreme to see what happens? You already had pretty good consept for this, the lead head wide open through 1x12” ;-) Maybe other aspects should be considered like strenght of the magnet. I’d bet against the aging, but who knows.. Have you measured the thickness of old cone material vs reissues?
A lot of people will think the '72 sounds "warm".....but as an engineer, I'm tellin' ya that things lost all ability to reproduce high/mid-high frequencies...all you hear is low and low mid. You can even see the paper on the cone has worn away over the years...not great.
Not even close. But it is a tall task to create a vintage style speaker that matches the original. The vintage 30 is probably closer, I might be wrong on this one though. Excellent comparison as usual, great video.
@@JohanSegeborn Nice!! I always loved the 1980 g-12 65 those that have the marshall logo on them. I believe Angus Young used them on Back in black if Im not mistaken.
Left the video and came back for the last 45 seconds, the original Greenback has this body the newer one lacks - newer one doesn’t sound any better than any of the other Greenback reissues and probably sounds more harsh and thin
All the new greenbacks I've heard have a lot of 4khz-6khz presence. The original is clearly rolled off and way darker. Not sure if it is the way they are making them or the aging process.
G12c are claimed to be UK made but the „50“ on the sticker magnet stands for chinese made although it does not say „made in china“. Has someone insight on that?
I prefer the G12C reissue. It's got loads of topend and sounds more open than the 1972 model. - The older speaker is abit too compressed for my liking.
Just bought a bottom vintage modern purple cab with these Hendrix speakers.
Sounds killer
Wow! What a difference! The G12C sounds so harsh compared to the 1972 which sounds so wonderfully warm. Great playing as usual Johan.
Thanks Dave, glad you like it!
None of the Greenback reissues sound like an original greenback IMHO. They sound good in their own right, but the voicing is very different. The mic placement in this example favors the G12C. If the mic was placed at the edge of the dust cap the G12M would have sounded better and the G12C would have been thin and harsh.
I saw a guy who sanded the cone of a reissue greenback and made it sound better. His name was Johan something or other............................
Hahaha! That’s a good point, if I would have pointed the close mic closer to the center of the cone, the G12C would have suffered
@@JohanSegeborn Now if we sand the G12C how would that turn out??
In your examples, I prefer the G12C. They're quite different though. Nothing wrong with the old greenback, of course. But the G12C cuts through better while still having that old school vibe.
Johan's uploads really can brighten up my day 🤟
This is no less than synchronicity, Johan. You're making a demonstration of exactly the T1221 it has taken me 2 years to find. I will put together with 2 x T1217 graybacks from June 73. I wanted so much to hear the greenback, but haven't got it yet.... and then you present a great demonstration with a greenback equivalent to the quad I have right now.
Cheers Johan. God helg
Thanks for the video Johan. I have always wondered how they compare. I have the original purple Vintage Modern 2466 and matching 425A cab with the greenback reissues. It is absolutely mint and even has all the manufacturers stickers still on it, haha. I have had it since it came out. The VM is really a versatile amp and for a long time it was misunderstood. I am happy to see it get some love! Excellent riffs as always Johan! 🎸🤘🏻 - Kurt
Thanks Kurt! Glad to hear that!
Best amp since the original JCM 800
I've had the Vintage Modern combo with two G12Cs, a VM 425a slant cab (G12Cs) and a '68 1960b cab with G12M 25w 1221 003 Pulsonics. The Pulsonics sound smoother and project a bit more midrange. The G12Cs sound brighter, not as broken in. Both are just like the sound in Johann's video.
They compliment each other very well! When gigging, I is the Vintage Modern (425A) on top of or next to the '68 (1960B) with a YJM100 attenuated to the venue.
I can attribute much of the difference to varying speaker break-in amounts. Also, the cab construction varies with grill cloth, bracing, solid vs MDF backs accounting for a measure of different voicing. But the speakers themselves have 40 years between then with different materials and atmospheric conditioning. YMMV.
Btw the G12-65 sounds great like a more aggressive Pulsonics
I like the G12C better, it cuts through really well. But I think the two compliment each other very well and would sound great together in a 2x12...
If you want to go back and forth quickly:
left = more close mic
middle= close mic/room mic
right = more room mic (this is the configuration you players (not studio) should refer to, what you would hear when playing. I think in this configuration they come very close in character, mayber rounder highs for solo on the pulsonic one, but G12C top end gives a nice clarity especially for clean)
last line = more close mic
1 1:19 1:36 2 1:50 2:07 3 2:22 2:39
4 2:57 3:20 6 3:49 4:12 8 4:41 5:04
5 3:05 3:29 7 3:57 4:21 9 4:49 5:13
10 5:30 5:49 11 6:08 6:21 12 6:36 6:45 13 6:57 7:11 14 7:28 7:40
The G12C are stunning speakers. I loaded my 4x12 with them in 2007 and couldn’t be happier. Looking forward to this comparison.
The amazing Lead 12 strikes again! Really nice tone comparison. Thanks Johan
Thanks Craig!
I think its a crime to use such a shitty amp for anything meaningful, man...
good example of a fresh unbroken-in speaker, compared to an old blown-out speaker that's past it's prime ;-) -scott harmonic
Yep, you really cant compare them this way.
I like the original G12M for lead and the G12C for rhythm. The C was shrill in the lead but tight in rhythm. The M was muddy on rhythm and so smooth in the leads.
Do you think it wise to use the lead 12 for this comparison? I don’t know if Marshall employed an underdamped design in the output section in this solid state amp. But if they didn’t, which is common, then the results bear no resemblance to how these speakers react in a tube amplifier
Great comparison Johan 👍 I just fitted a 1960BHW with 2 x reissue G12M's and 2 x G12C. Great combination! The C's make up for what the M's lack in high mids.
Johan, I love your speaker demos (all of your videos really) and have learned a lot from them. I must ask the question, how well are the newer speakers used in the demos broken in? I wonder how the newer speakers will sound after 30+ years of use and ageing? Keep up the great informative work! It is such a blessing to have access to all of the great gear you get to play and educate us with!
I like the 1972. They are both good, but the original just has that sound from back in the day. Seems like most companies reissue speakers put emphasis on the highs more. Just make a reissue that sounds the same! Great video Johan!
The Celestion G12 C is loaded with the same 53H1777 cone and nomex paper voice coil as the celestion blue alnico
Celestion G12 C sounds the best in open back cabs, this style cab accentuates the vintage breakup that Marshall is known for
I like that the G12C has more presence. I would think if you cut back the Treble a bit on the amp, you could possibly replicate the sound of the '72. I would like to hear this comparison with a tube amp, since that's what the G12C was designed to be used with.
Well done Johan! Love them both of course and thanks for sharing brother! Have a great weekend and Be Well All!
Have a great weekend brother!
That G12C is a really great-sounding speaker. I like it a lot. I think I like it better than the old G12M, at least in this recording setup. It sounds "fuller," like its freq response is wider and more balanced. The old Greenback sounds a bit like it was recorded with high and low cut filters, almost, compared to the G12C, kind of mid-rangey and AM-radio low-fi. I wonder if Marshall/Celestion were going for a speaker that was kind of a mix of old G12M's and G12H's?
While they're both great-sounding speakers, I think I'd prefer a 4X12 full of G12C's over G12M's (even old ones, maybe), based on this test, anyway.
G12C is completely un-doped, G12M pre Rola is doped heavily and even around center dome!
@@HugoSchonbeck That's interesting. Thank you.
Great comparison, BTW I been wondering what headphones you use and suggest for mixing or amp sims / practice. Keep the awesome videos coming
There is a distinct difference between the two; to my ears. The G12C has more treble and is louder, while the G12M25 has a mid-range honk.
As a pair, I think they would complement each other.
Exactly what i thought
it's so amazing the different tones out of 2 different speakers...that's the most crucial part of sound for sure!...not better...just different!
The older one has a touch of early Schenker/Blackmore in the sound. Reminded me of so many early great rock albums.
To my ears the g12c has more hi/mid with more breakup as for the g12m has more low/mid with less breakup. Together in a cabinet they partner well. Thank you again Johan for another amazing comparison.
Thanks Nicholas!
I hear the same. I prefer the G12m (today). Some days I like the screaming high mids!
The older greenback is pretty dark but has a lovely, punchy midrange. The G12C has the high end about right for my taste but the mids are weird, as though some frequencies are being notched out. Maybe outfitting a cab with one (or a pair) of each would do the trick. ☺️
Diggin the high end more on the reissue but the low end on the original. That new one sounds mean, and I like it
The original one sounds sweet and articulate with that distinctive low-mid bump. The new one sounds good, but nothing more than "good". Awesome video Johan!
Great sounds from both Johan...... Whats the little orange Marshall head you are playing through? Thanks!
both sound really good, my personal preference is the original G12M, the reissue does sound good and has a classic tone but to me the original sounds much richer and great bass response. could it be the aging process? Love the Ace-like riffing and the Lead 12 is a nice little amp. Great comparison and appreciate the lengths you go through to show the differences. thank you, Johan, have a great weekend.
Thanks man, they actually sounded like this when they were relatively new, as can be heard on classic recordings of that era. Have a great weekend!
@@JohanSegeborn Thanks, will have to listen and compare.
You can hear the difference in the chords. The G12m vintage sounds like Humble Pie 1970 Rockin the Filmore or early 70's Zeppelin. Whereas the modern G12C sounds like Kiss Alive mid 70's. Both gr8! I prefer the smooth woodiness and gorgeous bite of the vintage but the exciting and more top end of the modern G12C is quite good also, especially when you play leads up top. Which means to me, Celestion is now making pretty respectable new speakers! Bravo Johan!
Thanks Julius!
Probably closer to a black back
Yeah I agree the G12C is indeed closer to a black back
Yeah think I saw a kind of 1777 cone stamp in one of the pics along the way, which should get it a blackbacky sound...
@@alanst.4417 Yes , but isn't that a bass cone for a G12H ? I have a couple 1970 G12H reconed with 1777 . But mine sound like the M far more than the C
I actually liked the newer one better in this comparison. They both sounded great, but sometimes I favour a brighter tone, which the G12C has, compared to the G12M.
On another note Johan, I might be able to score 2 G12M-65 (original) speakers. Thinking about putting them in an X-pattern in my bone stock 1960A cabinet (then somewhere along the road, supplant it with a pair of greenback/creamback speakers). How do you feel about the G12M-65s? They've got 444 cones and are 15 ohms.
@Johan Segerborn
You mean the g12-65 speaker? (observe the "M" G12M-65 = creamback)
The g12-65 is a great speaker, even on its own.
I think the test is what it is, its this specific speaker on this specific day on this specific amp, however its not the period on the conversation since the state of break in and material age play a part in the differences, the G12C's may end up sounding better with age. As a Jensen speaker engineer once stated when trying to capture the essence of the 1960s 50 watt speakers, he was given complete company backing to buy up over 100 original Jensen loaded Fender cabs from the 60s to get an idea of their core sound so that he could make a reissue of their famous 50 watt speaker, however problems quickly arose when almost every cab sounded different despite being of the same vintage and spec...the wild card? how much wear & use each speaker incurred over its lifetime and also where they were stored even was a factor!. Eventually they did find out what the core sound was, but it was a compromise at best.
When it comes to speakers, comparing can often be a challenge and hardly a fair test for either speaker, what matters in a situation like this is if it sounds good to you, because there are way too many variables to compared speakers apples to apples. It would be akin to comparing the tolerances in a random old engine to that of a new one and trying to guess how many miles are on it. Personally the speakers did have the same vibe and feel & response, however differences in treble frequency and bass can be eq'ed to factor in for the speaker wear until its broken in.
Thanks for putting this together Johan. Did you have the back removed from the 1933 cabinet during your recording? I think I see the grill cloth of the 412 peeking through from behind. I loved both, but actually prefer the G12C, with its great breakup and more pronounced low-mids. If the cab was indeed open back, that might mean the G12C is a contender (with the G12H30 55) for best-sounding Greenback style speaker in 1x12 open cab. Now we all should email Celestion to request that they release a retail version of the G12C!
Glad to hear it! Yeah the cab was open back
The problem with new speakers is they don't have 45-50 years use on them so they Will sound different. This 200X G12C sounds very bright compared to the original G12M. I know I bought a new Celestion Ruby and a Cream Alnico and it took months of playing through both before they finally opened up/broke-in..
Awesome video as usual! To me is no contest. The G12M Pulsonic destroys the G12C. It's wood versus plastic to my ears.
Thanks Max, glad to hear that!
I used to have a 425A cab. The G12C has awesome top-end clarity and sweet mids. However, no low end at all. Always sounds like one is playing through a telephone.
Hi John, thanks for that been a lot of chatter about these latley. The old one is such a familiar sound, how could they get the re-issue so wrong? It would not surprise me if there is another model in their new line that sounds closer? Any thoughts.....
Love the G12C! Can you do a comparison of the Silver Jubilee V30 and the stock (Mesa ?) version. The SJ’s are rated at 70W vs stock 60W, so there must be some differences.
johan it would be great to hear a marshall club and country or any old carlsbros if they ever show up in simon's music shop
The g12c is my favorite greenback that being said ....I own 2-425 A cabinets. I run those with 2-1960 b cabs loaded with v-30h. 70th.anniversary speakers. 1984- 2203 on one and a 1987-2555 jubilee on the other. 2 pedals Dunlop jh-1 wah into a baby boom stereo reverb. The violin on acid...melt my brain sound. Pure sonic bliss.
The Marshall super 100 JH sounds great with G12Cs. It would be interesting to compare the speakers in my stack that has had 14 years of rocking to a speaker that is almost 50 years old.
Sounds great Johan!
Have you compared these to the heritage G12M found in the 1974 and 1974cx cabinets? Like the G12C these ones are supposed to be voiced differently for Marshall and differ from the stock Celestion heritage equivalent.
Thanks Mike, not back to back I’m afraid but Metro Amps did that comparison in a video a couple of years ago and it corroborates this difference. Cheers
see greenback g12m even thru a solid state amp still sound amazing wow,that shows that even the cheapest amp would sound amazing thru greenback g12m 70s.its the voicing in the cone thats the magic.
Yeah, to me a 100 bucks amp through an original Greenback is better than any other amp through any other speaker, with the exception of vintage Jensen P12
Awesome comparison
Marshall seems a bit more fizzy and thin.
Why wonder which one would cut better in the mix though.
So basically if you use an eq and cut a bit mids and highs, you could get the g12c to sound like the m?
Johan
You have a great mastery of the instrument. I always have a question about the sound quality produced by YT compression algorithm. And by that my concern is if you digitally record the sound and play it back on analog equipment is there a real difference?
FYI ....I collected Jimi's autograph in person at the Virginia Beach Dome concert and sat in the front row in 1967. I also went back stage, got some images. If you want an original autograph, images from backstage, my front row ticket from the event, it can be yours as I know you would cherish it as I have.
Robert Phelps, Williamsburg Virginia
Thanks! YT compression is not a problem for these sounds. If you had more air or silky top end you might run into problems though.
Thanks for the offer but I’d rather see that Jimis signature stays with the original recipient. Cheers
When they stopped making these amps Celestion sold the speakers to Mojotone who put a sticker saying "watchtower" on them :) (They still have the Celestion G12C sticker on the side of the magnet)
Ah, yeah, mojotone it was, with that hippie watchtower stickers.
I tried to remember, was sold out when i was on the hunt for a G12C to try.
I liked the 72 better here. But they both sound good, just different.
Wonder if the C was brand new or properly broken in. Sounded a bit thin in the bottom.
Many a review ive heard of my G1235XC is clearly not broken in, and it sounds harsh, a "quality" that will certainly change as the low end breaks through and balances it out in quite a few hours.
I take for granted that the -72 was broken in :)
Johan knows what he is doing.
Sick Riff Johan!!! I like Both Speakers.... sounds awesome!!
From what I have read the G12C was modeled after a 1966 GB with a Mueller type cone. Even original GB sound different. You have Rola and pre-Rola. Aren't the pre Rolas with the pulsonic cone a bit warmer and darker sounding than other vintage GB???? Am I wrong Johan?
it's amazing how different they sound, I simply can't pay the extortionate prices for a vintage celestion, wish I'd have bought some years ago on ebay when they were still cheap, I use the G12H55 which I think sounds close to hendrix and page tones.
Just got four 1970 g12h greenbacks for $1000 , cheap !
Of course they both sound good, albeit different at all settings. The 72 has more midrange which I tend to favor. Thanks as always for this Johan.
Thanks!
Love the G12M's quack.. I would like to see these compared to the G12-EVH.. No videos really out there on the EVH G12M-20 version .. I have one in a AC15 and it sounds much better to my ears then the current Stock greenback Vox put in the amp..
The Van Halen speaker is the 20 watt greenback with a different sticker on the back. Same exact speaker. It was these speakers that were in his old Marshall cabs back in the 70’s. Originals of course not the reissues.
@@chrisjones8977 no I have a heritage.. in a same same cab.. I! The EVH to my ears is more close to a pulsonic I have.. that's why I asked the question... Different cone # English made for sure... I took out the heritage..on recordings the EVH Sounds slightly different.. more close to the original either way.. it's a bargain for that tone... To be honest though I have two pulsonic Alnico greys that came from the same vox super Beatle cab now in 1x12 cabs that sound different from each other.. both very nice but slightly different..
@@davidhovey5152 I agree that the EVH sounds slightly different than the heritage. Probably the cone doping.
Thanks for another ear candy, Johan. Can't decide which one I like better. The G12M has its trademark round midrange bark, while G12C seems to have more treble and clarity going on. Seems like one of the best reissues with the heritage greenback IMO. Will you try that one someday?
I prefer the reissues, clearer less muffled sound! Which I suspect means they offer a little more headroom.
I agree
This is probably the closest of any reissue Celestion speaker I've heard, but it still sounds more like those more aggressive late-70's Kurt Mueller cones. A fantastic sound, but STILL not that elusive Pulsonic!
They both sound very good, but they are a bit different: the original Greenback has more midrange and smoother highs than the G12C, which Is a tad brighter and aggressive, I would although be Happy playing With both, cheers Johan!🤟🏼
Cheers Vincenzo!
Those G12C sound really good. They are still no match for original greenbacks, but I much prefer them over the reissue G12Ms. Cool video Johan!
These both sound better than those metal bull horn vintage 30s they push on the market now
The 72 g12m makes me want get up and dance more to your riffs. The g12c sound more like a little fizzy toy radio.
You have some tasty tricks up your sleeve. I propose some close ups of your playing during demo’s. Watching a vid with a magnifying glass is a pain.
Have you tried any Heritage Series Celestions? G12M Heritage and G12H Heritage seem to be modeled the closest to the original G12Ms and G12Hs. And there's a video comparing the G12C to the Heritage and it sounds a bit similar to this comparison.
Yeah I play heritage Celestions in this video for instance
th-cam.com/video/E4u-NIiWpsU/w-d-xo.html
Difference if most likely down to the cone and age/break in. Iv had 73 greenbacks before and have 78 blackbacks also. The 12c sounds like something inbetween those two.
I like the G12C. I bought a four speaker set on ebay some years ago. They were from a VOX Beatles cabinet the seller told me. I think these speakers are the greatest speakers for guitar built by Celestion. I asked Celestion if they had any data. But they didn't know anything about that old stuff anymore .... :-( They appear to be silver and black not green and black. Maybe it is another series.
both sound great, but different. would be nice to put the g12c and the old g12m in a 2x12 cab, close mic both and blend them together in the mix. thanks to Johan I allways buy more speakers, need a g12c now too, as it is missing in my greenback-collection... ;o)
New one sounds much better, old one sounds like it has a blanket over it. I have a 425a cab with the new ones and it slays.
G12C sounds amazing close mic!
Hi Johan from California. About 6 years ago (my gosh, has it been that long?) You compared the Celestion G12-35XC Vs Heritage 55Hz. I am hearing some similarities in the differences between speakers in that comparison to the comparison today. Would you be able to do one more test with the G12C, and compare it to the Celestion G12-35XC, and maybe add a G-12H. I think your listeners would want to know what else in Celestion's line is similar to this (difficult to get) G12C.
Hi Keith, yeah we can do a Celestion Greenback style speaker shootout
I think that G12C sounds really nice. It's really interesting though that every modern reissue of the Greenback has the mids up in a higher spot, compared to the lower-mid focus of the originals. Does anyone have any idea on why Celestion either won't, or can't get the modern reissues to have that lower-mid thing that the originals have? The only modern Greenback type speaker that I hear that in (from clips) is the Scumback M55 or M75.
They don't seem to be sharing that information. From what I have been reading, Webber makes a close replica. I don't own one yet, but check them out.
Whoa, these are not even close to each other, like from a different universe! Cool comparison!
Thanks!
Hi, Johan!
I say: 1972 is more nice ballanced. G12c is the punk-rock amp, perfect for the alternative music. Have a great weekend! See you!
Zigfrid
Have a great weekend man!
The G12c IS punk rock 😉 I immediately hear Holiday In The Sun, no mistake 😍
The 72 I heard the mids and lows together, the new C is one dimensional and it’s just bright.
They sound very different. I think the new has a different voice. It has more distortion to my ear. I really like it :-)
Both sounded fab, but very different.
Thanks Patrick!
In isolation I prefer the vintage speaker, but I'm sure the new one would do well in a mix. Perhaps they would pair together nicely in a 2x12 with a mic on each cone.
I actually thought the reissue sounded tighter So better is subjective ☺️ But my vote goes to the re-ish Very good to know there is Hope 😂
How about aging that new speaker to the extreme to see what happens? You already had pretty good consept for this, the lead head wide open through 1x12” ;-) Maybe other aspects should be considered like strenght of the magnet. I’d bet against the aging, but who knows.. Have you measured the thickness of old cone material vs reissues?
A lot of people will think the '72 sounds "warm".....but as an engineer, I'm tellin' ya that things lost all ability to reproduce high/mid-high frequencies...all you hear is low and low mid. You can even see the paper on the cone has worn away over the years...not great.
Not even close. But it is a tall task to create a vintage style speaker that matches the original. The vintage 30 is probably closer, I might be wrong on this one though. Excellent comparison as usual, great video.
Vintage 30’s sound nothing like original Celestions either.
Thanks man! I think you’re right. Next I’m actually comparing a 1980s V30 to this 1972 Greenback.
@@Dagger_323 Yes I agree.
@@JohanSegeborn Nice!! I always loved the 1980 g-12 65 those that have the marshall logo on them. I believe Angus Young used them on Back in black if Im not mistaken.
You may think I'm crazy but I like the g12c better!! Both sound phenomenal though
Thanks man, no tone is all about personal preference
wow I have to go with with the G12C.
The reissue has a little more focus clarity but they both sound good. Could be the break in period or EQ.
nice playing as always, Ilike the 1972 G12M more but the 200X G12C sunds more modern
When will you make guitar lessons? U play like a god🤟
Thanks, that’s very kind of you! We can do a couple of tab/ playing technique videos if you want! Cheers
Johan Segeborn yes please. Please talk about your approach in getting the sound of hard rock with your playing 🙂✊
Unfortunately the '72 G12M sounds muffled compared to the 12C which is clearer crisper. Thanks Johan.
Reissue sounds close but seems a little brighter than the original
Great video! Do you have t1281 greenback?
Thanks! Yeah I use T1281, T1221, T1511 and T1217 Greenbacks regularly
Wow. Like the modern one wayyyyyy better on this one. So much clarity.
Original sounds great - through the Lead 12! Nice amp.
Thanks Mike
Left the video and came back for the last 45 seconds, the original Greenback has this body the newer one lacks - newer one doesn’t sound any better than any of the other Greenback reissues and probably sounds more harsh and thin
G12C!
Wish I could say otherwise but the ‘72 slays the Reissue.
All the new greenbacks I've heard have a lot of 4khz-6khz presence. The original is clearly rolled off and way darker. Not sure if it is the way they are making them or the aging process.
G12c are claimed to be UK made but the „50“ on the sticker magnet stands for chinese made although it does not say „made in china“. Has someone insight on that?
gotta try both in the same cab, now... or is that too crazy? haha
Not at all, the punch of the G12C could probably add to the richer, bigger tone of the original
G12M sounded much better in every instance to my ears.
I prefer the G12C reissue. It's got loads of topend and sounds more open than the 1972 model. - The older speaker is abit too compressed for my liking.
Thanks Tim