I like the Creamback much better for its warm full tone too ! The usability of the Creamback is bigger too because of the superb clean tones you can't get with a Greenback.
I think it is a modern misconception that guitars should have a big, full sound on their own. A lot of new gear seems to aim for this. The vintage tones like what you're getting here with the greenback work really well in a mix and to cut through. They seem to have a lot of nice detail in the mids. It's just kind of begging for a bass guitar and kick drum to fill it out.
Exactly. It always has to be judged in the context of a mix. I've heard people say an Alnico Blue is too toppy and raspy but play that bad boy in a band mix and hear it slice right through. Sounds wonderful.
The difference is when using 100 watt amps in 4x12s those thin sounds got fuller and fatter, especially since you need a full stack to use greenbacks with a 100 watt amplifier . The modern ones are meant to be used a lot more efficiently with smaller setups and still have meat to them that you wouldn’t get unless you had multiple stacks . If the originals were darker people would just say”oh wow the classics are so much sweeter, nowadays everything is so bright and brittle “
These videos are fantastic... thank you! They both sound incredible, albeit different. I really like both tonal colors. However, the greenback has the tone that inspired for my taste... they’re both so good it’s really down to personal preference. I wouldn’t fault anyone who selected the cream back over the green. They both sound totally rad.
You are right about the nasal in the vintage. I found that more pleasing for the single and solo notes but liked the thickness of the other for rhythm. I think it is a lot like BBQ, it depends on what you grew up having. That is what is your perfect BBQ. Same with speaker sounds. The time period and gear the bands used influence your "ear tastes". I.e for me, the group that grew up on Boogie and PRS traded a lot of tone for depth, power and gain. They might disagree. You are right, these were both good speakers.
I have both UK made and Chinese made Greenbacks and yes there is a small difference with the UK ones being just a bit more smooth but I'm not sure I think it's worth a price difference. Just break then in and you won't hear the difference, the Chinese ones are just fine
Howdy Johan, your video comparison between these two speakers helped me out immensely. I FINALLY made the choice of the 'modern' Creamback G12M-65 loaded into my Mesa 2X12 'Recto' cabinet. I am going to use two 16 Ohm speakers wired up in parallel for a combined 8 Ohm load so I can use the 'Recto' cabinet with my 'stable' of amplifiers. Cheers!
Creamback edges out the greenback for me, both sound great. I’m trying to figure out which cab would compliment my hiwatt halfstack and what speaker combination should go in it
ok so I finally got a plexi (thanks in no small part to your videos) and I'm wanting to grab some new or old speakers for it. Celestion's "Greenback" design right now is confusing as hell so I guess I'll just ask which of these you'd pick out of the current production "walk into the store and buy" speaker if you had to pick? Heritage G12H(55) G12M Greenback (75hz) G12 EVH (G12M20 I think with just an EVH sticker?) Heritage G12H(75) G12-65 Heritage
I'm a big Greenback fan but in this comparison, the Creamback sounded more to my tastes. Not soo fizzy and trebly, nice thick tone. I have a 212 with 65 Creambacks at home too :)
That's an amazing comparison and I'm finally happy that Creamback is exactly what I want and I don't need to look for vintage Celestion. Though both of them sound great and I probably would be happy with any but it is cool that what I like is something less rare and more affordable. Thank you Johan! :)
Johan i Really like your tone! by far this is one of my top Channels on youtube! i would take both speakers! haha. always nice gear and amazing demos cheers!
Have you looked into the Hotone Purple Wind? It's a miniature solid state plexi inspired amp you might want to look into, it'd be cool to see your take on it
Hi Johann, cool test. Had a similar issue as I like greenback heritage speakers but for my higher wattage amp needed a higher power rated speakers for a 2x12 cab. Would a g12h with its top end be closer to the vintage greenback 😳 or the neo creamback or even scumback with the paper voice cone? Or another way to ask the same question would be can you do a video of modern speakers that comes the closest to approximate the sound of vintage greenback in a 65 watt+ power handling range 👍 Would be eternally thankful 🤘
+Peter Along Mannen Thanks, yeah the Celestion Heritage G12H30 55Hz and 75Hz are much closer to the original Greenbacks. In this clip I compare the Heritage 55Hz to the original G12H Greenback th-cam.com/video/jRx9gH7ugrk/w-d-xo.html Cheers
I don't have a lot of experience with Greenbacks but as a Creamback owner I can say they are very nice. Great cleans and remain warm yet clear when reaching breakup and into higher gain. Either way you can't go wrong!
I'm a longtime pulsonic greenback guy who uses the creamback 65 in a 1x12 cab to allow for the higher power application. They are not the same as the originals like you say but I've come to really love it as my go to cab. I would love to load a 4x12 with the creambacks and check that out. Love your channel Johan keep it up!
Nouveautwang the creamback is killer in 50 watt combo amps . o have the creamback in a 50 watt open back combo with a vintage 30 in a 1 by 12 extension cab and that combo is perfect lots of low end lower and upper mids and a treble that is rounded just enough . i am mainly a rythum player and heavy riffer so I don't need alot of treble breakup or presence . tried pairing a greenback with the v 30 but do not like the results . the low mids and bass were too loose . for lead I would take a vintage greenback or g12h 30 all the way.
I currently have a 4x12 loaded with V30s, a few 1x12s with various modern Greenbacks, and a 2x12 cab set up Egnater-style with a V30 and an Elite 80. As I'm getting older (aren't we all?) I'm seeking a bit more vintage flavor from present day speaker choices to shake up the 4x12 and the 2x12. This shootout (combined with other speaker videos you have done) is making me think Creambacks are the way to go. Sadly, original vintage speakers are getting a bit too pricy and rarer on eBay these days... and I'm quite certain your videos are helping fuel the demand for vintage speakers with Pulsonic cones. Keep these wonderful, informative videos coming, Johan. Your videos are the best!
This is a rare occasion that I prefer the modern equivalent! That Creamback sounds massively better to my ears. It's definitely derived from the Greenback but just sound "more" or "fuller"? I know what my next speaker will be!
A 10” Creamback REALLY woke up my Origin 20C. Really thickened it up and cured most of the anemic tendencies of the low power settings. Just a lovely speaker.
Very nice comparison! The question now is that if the modern G12M Creamback isn't actually a good modern replica of an early 70s Greenback, is there a different modern production speaker, whether from Celestion or someone else, that does a better job? I've heard good reviews of WGS' and Ted Weber's versions of the Greenback but a direct comparison like this would be very interesting!
I prefer the Greenback sound in the more sort of rhythm parts played here but prefer the Creamback for lead tone. Which is a really annoying conclusion to come to lol.
Excellent video, thank you. Would there be any chance that you could demo the Marshall Vintage Modern 50 watt combo, I have one with 2 x 12"" Celestion Jimi Hendrix Green backs, I can't seem to get a real Hard Rock sound out of it, maybe the Speakers haven't broken in enough yet? Kind regards,
+John Roberts Thanks John, I actually have a demo of that amp here on the channel. The vintage channel is great but the modern channel is to harsh for my taste
Johan Segeborn , thank you, I am looking forward to seeing your review. I really enjoy watching your demo's, your knowledge of all things Rock and Marshall is sensational. Happy Easter. kind regards.
Do they still make the greenbacks? What does pre Rola mean? What about vintage 30's? Tell us more, for those just learning the finer points of all this..All about the watts, hertz, ohms, etc.. No one else really says much about it. Thanks.
Hi Johan, would be nice to hear how a Marshall Celestion G12C Greenback sounds against a modern G12M Greenback reissue or original. I believe from the limited info about the G12C, it was used in the Marshall vintage modern and Super 100JH Hendrix stack. Also, info stated it was an attempt to voice the cone like a pulsonic cone?? Wonder if it sounds any different from a regular greenback as I may have an oppurtunity to buy some. What do you think?
Johan I have a RI Creamback in my Vox AC 15. My comment would be patience. It took a ridiculously long time to break in. I finally resorted to playing my Jazz Bass through the amp to shake it up. It now sounds amazing!
Hi Johan, have you compared the 16 ohm versions of the two speakers? Usually the 16 Ohm version has more top end than the 8 ohm from what I have heard. Just a thought.
Your description was right on. I was surprised that the Greenback was so much more articulate on the high end because I think of it as a mid-heavy speaker. The Creamback also didn't have that famous nasal quality of the GB. I thought they would sound more similar than they do. Both of them clearly have the British/Celestion/Marshall flavor, but there was a noticeable difference considering the CB is marketed as a higher power GB.
Both very cool sounding speakers. The Greenback is "the" sound though. The Creamback has "something" and is certainly a usable tone but it's a different thing. It seemed to depend on what you were playing as to which I preferred better. Great comparison, as usual, Johan.
Johan, I like the sound of the Greenbacks more, but if I were playing, I think I would enjoy the pick dynamics of the Creambacks. Do you find the Creambacks serve ample definition with single note lead type playing?
+Chax858 When playing single notes I'd prefer the richer harmonic content of the Greenback, but usually trial and error is needed to see which one works best. Cheers
Hi Johan. I had a Creamback in my TAD JTM 1x12 Combo for the last 2 years. A great speaker for sure, providing many of the strengths of its predecessors. But it always used to have a harsh breakup peak in the high middles, especially at the level of overdrive where the JTM excels, and when I changed my pickups to even more PAF-like, pretty “voicy” ones (from Wizz to Amber Spirit of 59, older A5 version), it was just too much. Then, a Scumback M75LD 65W came across, and it turned out to perform much creamier, and richer at the same time. I still need to find out if the large dustcap takes away too much top end, so I might go for a small dustcap version later on, but the Scumback definitely brought me the cure for great vintage tone!
Both sound awesome! Actually I haven't seen any bad sound in this channel yet... How well broken-in was the Creamback speaker? Do you think it will get warmer, rounder, and sweeter in the top after proper break-in? Besides construction, there's obviously 50 years of playing as a difference between them... Have you ever tested the G12H-75 Creamback? It seems to get even better reviews than the G12M-65
Thanks, glad to hear it! If I remember correctly it had a fair amount of playing on it. The G12H-75 is indeed even better. That’s the speaker in the Astoria series for instance. Cheers
Loved hearing you talk a bit more in the beginning-it was great to hear your thoughts. Wow both sound amazing. Hard for me to pick one. I guess I would pick the one that helps me get that "Johan" sound.
Johan your preface was spot on! Greenback with pulsonic cone had a much sweeter more detailed top end. The Creamback sounded muffled in comparison. The Greenback would cut through the mix so much better, perhaps if you had a backing drum & bass track it would be more apparent.
Had the creamback, kept the Greenback, I felt the cream back is like mixing a v30 and greenback together. My favorite speaker for marshalls is the g12-65. Great DEMO JOHAN !
Hi Johan, The greenback sounds great but is the watts rating why the greenback is breaking up here? You aren't afraid of blowing the speaker plugging a 25w into a cranked 50 watt amp?
After the intro/lead-in comments I was expecting to be disappointed, but was very surprised at how good the Creamback sounded, and infact, I much preferred its tone to the greenback - side by side the greenback sounds harsh and grating compared to the creamback to me. The creamback has plenty of honk and top end. Another awesome and eye opening demo - Thanks Johan!
Thanks for that comparison!!! I swear by the creambacks, it's what i use. But i loved both and since i can't find the vintage ones, i'll stick with what i got. Both sound exactly how you describe them though, good call!
Hello, I have the opportunity to have either a g12m25 blackback 1978 or creamback g12m25 of 1974. are t'ils comparable to a creamback recent or are they best? thank you.
Hard to decide, they both sound rather nice. So Johan, the greenback is a 25 W speaker being compared to a 65 W speaker. How much of the difference is due to the fact that we are pushing the 25 W speaker harder , and it is breaking down as a result of the power input? Also , was the amp a 50 W being attenuated to a lower level?
Hi, I used a 50W master volume amp and played medium loud. I think the primary diffrebce is in the cone. To me the speakers sound similar whether they're pushed or not. The modern Greenback sounds closer to the Original Greenback. Cheers
I put two Creambacks and two Greenbacks into one of my 1960A cabinetes and I'm very pleased with it. I'll probably do the same to a 1960B cabinet as well, to have the full stack matched in tone.
Great comparison Johan. Creamback didn't have that raunchy top end that the Greenback has. But is the Creamback broken in or is it new out of the box? That could be a factor.
+caylepua This one was actually broken in, but that is indeed often the problem. I think its weird that players think that it's ok to use a speakers for 40-80hours before it sounds ok.
It seems a more fair related comparison would have been between this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback Vs 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback with the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback then compaired against these for comparison. But really cool to see this comparison too and of course the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback is pretty much the speaker that most all others are judged off of so great to see how these sound in relation to one another. Love your videos!
+Derrick Baranowsky Thanks Derrick, I'm glad to hear that. I compare some of the 1970s G12 cones in this clip th-cam.com/video/M6IhLfVs6Qg/w-d-xo.html Cheers Johan
Yes, I have seen this video and it's great! I just thought it might be more relevant to compare this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback with an original 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback since that is what it is supposed to be a copy of, instead of an original 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback. Still a super cool comparison and not a criticism by any means. As I said, this is a cool comparison and I love your videos ;-)
Derrick Baranowsky it seems the modern speakers don t stand a chance against the pulsonic cones. I would love to hear the creamback against later 70s greenbacks or even the g65 speakers .
Johan, I'm wondering why you don't compare the old greenback with the new greenback (G12M-65) ??? From what I hear, these two speaker have different sound. Both are good, but I still prefer creamback sound.
Hi Johan, I have got a Marshall dsl 40cr the back is half open on this amp, and i hate the v-type speaker that comes with it. There is a fizzy frequency i cant stand, tryied many things to get rid of it. I want a speaker change, do you recommend a G12m65 or a g12h75. Playing mostly Hardrock, punk really want good sounding powerchords, please help thx🙂
Mr. Segeborn, is it possible to use any of these speakers as an upgrade to a solid state amp like a Fender Mustang V Head or a Crate Power Block CPB 150? Thanks in advance! I´m already a subscriber and a fan of your vids. Cheers.
+Dr_Hyde06 Thanks, good to hear you like the videos! You could use a full stack of 8 Greenbacks for a total of 200W with these 150W amps. Or a half stack with the Creamback for a total of 280 W. Cheers Johan
Man, you made my day! I caught the analogy quite clear. I meant, if I have a 2x12 with these speakers to use with a Tube amp, the wattage of a Solid state (150) wouldn't affect or blow the Celestions.
Use the 2 creambacks and keep it to 8 and there is little chance of ruining them. The Mustang is a good amp. I love my tube amps, but solid state isn't always bad, just see Johans Lead 12 and Bass 12 vids as examples. I made my own town with the fuse software to mimic a vintage Traynor tone, its Marshall/Bassman like with a different gain type. That is the good thing about the Mustang you can tweak it till you get close to that tone in your head...it just never is quite there is all. 9.5/10 is great, but the 0.5 can drive you mad looking for the missing bit.
I would love to see you do a review with the Neo Creamback. This a exclusively for Engl Artist Edition Amp designed Speaker. Those speakers sound so nice.
I can definitely hear the difference, so obviously they are not a direct match, but I'm assuming that you used the same amp settings for both? If that's the case, I wonder if you can get the Creamback to sound closer to the Greenback with a simple increase of the presence control? Seems to me that's mostly what it's missing. Great video yet again!
+Brian Peter Thanks Brian, I used the same settings for both, but it would indeed be interesting to see how close to the greenback the Creamback could be tweaked using EQ etc
The creamback certainly is nice. I can see why some would prefer it in this context, but if you want to be heard, the greenback is THE sound. It's woody, but still cuts like a hot knife through butter. Thanks, Johan!
I have a question: How new was the Creamback? Sometimes speakers need to be played very loudly for about 8 hours before they "break in." Something to do with the "doping," a gluelike substance used to reinforce the circular striations near the outer circumference of the paper. Once they're all broken in, they give better upper end response. Would this have been a factor with the Creamback you demonstrated? (I assume that a Greenback from 1970 would have been broken in long ago.)
And, I liked the sound of both speakers, by the way. I think that by mixing them (plus maybe a couple of others) into a 4X12, one might get a very versatile and great-sounding speaker cabinet. Thanks for making this comparison.
I love the channel, recently found it, and I'm really enjoying it, learning a lot. I want to build a 1x12 for my 15w EVH LBX. Just bedroom playing. I like a lot of the small amps, Blackstar 1w, Orange Dark Terror, etc. Looking at my speaker options, I like a lot of the 20w and 25w options, but there are a lot of guitar players who advise double the amp w for speakers. Do I need to plan on a 2x12, or am I on the right track? This seems to be a very debated topic. Thanks for your time.
+viper1vols Thanks, great to hear that! I always try to use double the power when I'm gonna play for longer periods. But my 50W Orange OR80 has 2x30 W speakers, so it's indeed a bit confusing. But if you're only gonna play at lower volumes you can use any speaker.
The creamback does sound a bit harder, tighter, and not as shimmery. For some sounds applications that's what I would want. The greenback has that undeniable early sound which is very much what we are used to hearing. I'd love to have a cab loaded with greenbacks to play at home/record. As for playing out with a band; I'd take a cab loaded with creambacks. They just seem easier to manage in my opinion. Awesome playing as always!
Similar, but also very different. The greenback. Is nicely boosted in the mid notes. Were the creamback gives the sound a zing to it. Also the bottom end of them both are different. I would almost suggest to putt a spectrum analizer on it to show the diffrence.
J.D. Willemsen I love the creamback for what it is instead of being dissapointed in what it's not . the tonal foundation and footprint is the same but some of the finer details are not . clestion did say that the crramback was designed to have the greenback sound but have a bigger low end that is much tighter under volume and gain and to have higher power handling so it's not designed to have the exact same sound but rather get you a g12m style sound with better bass response and power . I would imagine they could only get so close to the original when they added the bigger tight lower end and higher wattage handling . I think it's a great effort and they did very well
I LOVE that Korina V!!! I'm with you on that "nasal" quality old speakers have. Even the old Jensen P series speakers have a bit of it. The Creamback sounds great for a modern speaker, you can definitely do a lot worse.
Johan Segeborn is it an 80's reissue or a new one? Either way, I'm happy that Gibson has made them. A truly amazing design for 1958. As with the ES-335's, they are iconic instruments that have stood the test of time.
Hello sir, could you give me an advise if what celestion speaker should I match with my fender blues deluxe? I believe you are the authority when it comes to speaker selection and matching. I usually play cleans.Thank you so much.
The original is more 'on your face' kind of. A surround! Great video! By the way: just bought a Lead 12, all because your review. This little beast will cheers the barbecue jam nights. Thanks... again.
I liked them both, but prefered the vintage one. It has this pleasant air on top in addition to the top end gain you were talking about. I would love to see a comparison between a modern g12m 25w and that vintage one. Also ive got an issue with my amp, i posted a video to show the problem. I really need some input on what the problem might be!
My only question is how much play time is on the creamback? If its brand new, once it is broken in it may sound a bit different..... None the less both sound great, just different from each other, and keep in mind the greenback has 47+ years of use/playtime on it. : ) In my opinion one of each of these in a 2x12 cab would sound amazing : ) Keep up the good work Johan! : )
Since I am considering buying a Celestion Fullback 15' for my DSL40C, this was really interesting. You are really right, Johan, that the greenback sounds considerably "dirtier" and thicker giving an impression of gain, and the creamback much more clean, tight and controlled sounding. I do like the creamback, but search for that thick and dirty sound of the Pulsonic greenbacks. Do you think the Fullback lacks that rich high freq breakup of the greenback, Johan? Do you remember reflecting over that? BR Magnus
Would he interesting to throw a ted weber greenback clone both lower wattage and higher wattage in the mix to see how it fares. For marshall mid crunch I prefer the greenback I think both use able sound maybe one track of each to allow them different positions in the mix.
Amazing video as always sir! I just had an idea, what if you used a 212 cab with both speakers miced up, each panned hard left nd right? Can give a clear contrast between the two and show the tonal possibilities if both together. Cheers!
The early 70s G 12M 25 waters hit the sweet spot for me John. My first Marshall cabinet what is the 4x12 large 2032 with these speakers . I also tried a lot of other speakers and for me they hit the mark…….Cheers…… Keep on rockin
I bought the Creambacks once as I wanted the early G12M sound and was so disappointed. They just didn't give me the tone or breakup that I wanted. I then bought a new cab with the Heritage G12M Speakers and love them. The top end break up was what I was looking for. The creambacks just don't break up enough unfortunately. My JTM50 didn't sound good through them at all. They sound good with that Master Volume amp in your video though. Great video as always by the way.
+Johan Segeborn Can you do a video comparing the Heritage G12M to the G12M-20 and G12M-25? People say the Heritage G12M doesn't sound like the old Greenbacks but I suspect it was based on the original 20W Greenbacks.
I suppose they did as much as they could to get a similar tone while adding 40 watts of power handling capability. Must be some serious trade-offs to make that happen. Either way, both sound great. Thanks for the demo Johan!
+Rick McCargar Thanks Rick! But I don't know if the difference is that big between the 25 and 65 watt versions of the Scumback speakers. Anyway they both sound great to me. Just different. Cheers!
The original has amazing detail and character. These 2 speakers would probably mix well together in a 2x12 or 4x12. Would like to see more vids of different Celestions together. I remember how great my 4x12 sounded with 2 V30's/ 2 Celestion G12H30's. What about Celestion blue/G12H 30, G12H30 Bass cone/G12H30 Lead cone, Etc., Thanks!
+tonebender69 Thanks, that's good idea. I combine G12H and JBL as well as G12H and Goodmans in these clips. th-cam.com/video/TN7qY3ClzNE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/-SVTtLa5i_Y/w-d-xo.html Cheers Johan
I was wondering that maybe the reason that you didn't get the top end breakup from creambacks as you get from the greenbacks or this nasal quality you are seeking, stems from the difference in power handling. The creambacks can handle more than twice the wattage than greenbacks. Therefore, maybe when running a 4x12 with greenbacks the speakers would breakup about as much as with a 2x12 with creambacks powered by 100watt marshall head. Just a theory!
@@marksguitars5617 Love old Marshall cabs !! I’ve got a 68 B cab with the original pre-Rola Greenbacks but my fave is a 77 A cab with the original 30 watt Blackbacks on top and V30’s on bottom. I’ve been looking at getting a 74 A cab selling locally with the original Creambacks and researching those speakers I found this video and another of Johann’s where he explains they only made them in 74 and their codes. Enjoy your cab
@@zachariahwade8482 thanks! I have a bit of variety. I also have a 1960A that was savaged, no grill and tolex ripped to shreds, that one has early Rola Greenbacks. Marshall cabinets are the best, no question!
I think you should have one of each in a mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. They actually compliment each other. But if I could only pick one, I would do the creamback. It has a more rounded and less papery sound than the greenback. Amp choice would possibly change this though.
I love these speakers but both really should be being pushed to the same extent. They are both at their best when pushed with a cranked amp. The 25 Watt Greenback with a cranked 1974 18 Watt and the 65 Watt Creamback with a cranked 2204 or JTM50. Very difficult to compare properly without them driven as intended. Interesting vid though. Is that really a 1x12 being driven by a 50W amp or are there other speakers elsewhere? Great fun as always Johan! Thanks
+Charles Shaw Thanks Charles, its only 1x12. They retain their basic character when being pushed but with more bass and sustain. But granted, a single test setup never gives you the full picture.
Great video, love the tone on both. Maybe I missed it, but what type of power were you pushing to each? The same or did you increase power on the creamback to drive it closer to its breakup point?
They both sound pretty great actually. Obviously quite different but they both would have their place. It'd be great to have a cab for each, and record the same performance through both speakers, then blend them in the mix where ever it fits best. Great video man, straight to the point, and sounds are killer!
I quite enjoy the sound of the creamback,much fuller sound both sound excellent.
+The channel for everything Thanks, yeah two great speakers
I like the Creamback much better for its warm full tone too ! The usability of the Creamback is bigger too because of the superb clean tones you can't get with a Greenback.
I'd like to hear the Greenback against a Vintage 30. Sure, other people on TH-cam does these things, but your comparisons are conducted the best.
As would I......
+Randall Yeager Thanks Randall! I'd be glad to do that one!
Randall Yeager I made a 212 cab with 1 each greenback and vintage 30. what an amazing tone combo!
I think it is a modern misconception that guitars should have a big, full sound on their own. A lot of new gear seems to aim for this. The vintage tones like what you're getting here with the greenback work really well in a mix and to cut through. They seem to have a lot of nice detail in the mids. It's just kind of begging for a bass guitar and kick drum to fill it out.
Hi, yeah it’s all about context. Cheers Johan
Exactly. It always has to be judged in the context of a mix.
I've heard people say an Alnico Blue is too toppy and raspy but play that bad boy in a band mix and hear it slice right through. Sounds wonderful.
Great point eye opener!
True.
The difference is when using 100 watt amps in 4x12s those thin sounds got fuller and fatter, especially since you need a full stack to use greenbacks with a 100 watt amplifier .
The modern ones are meant to be used a lot more efficiently with smaller setups and still have meat to them that you wouldn’t get unless you had multiple stacks .
If the originals were darker people would just say”oh wow the classics are so much sweeter, nowadays everything is so bright and brittle “
Great comparison and review. I love creambacks and have often wondered how they compared to the original. Thanks for doing this!
+Thomas DiSanto Thanks Thomas, good to hear that!
These videos are fantastic... thank you! They both sound incredible, albeit different. I really like both tonal colors. However, the greenback has the tone that inspired for my taste... they’re both so good it’s really down to personal preference. I wouldn’t fault anyone who selected the cream back over the green. They both sound totally rad.
I love the visual layouts of your videos. Very different
+jamie c Thanks Jamie! I'm really glad you like the concept!
Listening with Sony MDR-7506 headphones and to me the creamback sounds smoother and less ear piercing. I'd take the creamback.
You are right about the nasal in the vintage. I found that more pleasing for the single and solo notes but liked the thickness of the other for rhythm.
I think it is a lot like BBQ, it depends on what you grew up having. That is what is your perfect BBQ. Same with speaker sounds. The time period and gear the bands used influence your "ear tastes". I.e for me, the group that grew up on Boogie and PRS traded a lot of tone for depth, power and gain. They might disagree.
You are right, these were both good speakers.
+Jim Grandstaff Thanks Jim! You're so right about that, these are both acquired tastes indeed! Cheers Johan
Good analogy! I have a Creamback in my Marshall and I love it, haven't owned a Greenback yet.
Hey Johan, I'd love to see a comparison between a vintage greenback and a brand new G12M-25 greenback, or maybe even a G12M Heritage. Thanks.
I have both UK made and Chinese made Greenbacks and yes there is a small difference with the UK ones being just a bit more smooth but I'm not sure I think it's worth a price difference. Just break then in and you won't hear the difference, the Chinese ones are just fine
Howdy Johan,
your video comparison between these two speakers helped me out immensely. I FINALLY made the choice of the 'modern' Creamback G12M-65 loaded into my Mesa 2X12 'Recto' cabinet. I am going to use two 16 Ohm speakers wired up in parallel for a combined 8 Ohm load so I can use the 'Recto' cabinet with my 'stable' of amplifiers. Cheers!
Hi Johan. The Creamback sounds best to me. ;-) Lasse
+Lasse Storgaard Jacobsen Thanks Lasse!
Lasse Storgaard Jacobsen . As to me too !
Indeed... The Creamback's sound awesome. But I'm a bit bias as I never liked Greenback's.
Yes, I like the creamback more, excited to get my new DR Z cab that has a creamback and a G12H loaded. should be a killer pair.
I can feel the creamback in my belly. I love your videos by the way. You have the best tone on TH-cam.
+Travis White Thanks Travis! I'm so glad to hear that!
Creamback edges out the greenback for me, both sound great.
I’m trying to figure out which cab would compliment my hiwatt halfstack and what speaker combination should go in it
Wow. Big difference.....A mix with both in one 4x12 would probably sound great.. I liked both. Depends on what you need.
Thanks Johan
+johanaavit Thanks, yeah they probably work great together mixed
ok so I finally got a plexi (thanks in no small part to your videos) and I'm wanting to grab some new or old speakers for it.
Celestion's "Greenback" design right now is confusing as hell so I guess I'll just ask which of these you'd pick out of the current production "walk into the store and buy" speaker if you had to pick?
Heritage G12H(55)
G12M Greenback (75hz)
G12 EVH (G12M20 I think with just an EVH sticker?)
Heritage G12H(75)
G12-65 Heritage
I'm a big Greenback fan but in this comparison, the Creamback sounded more to my tastes. Not soo fizzy and trebly, nice thick tone. I have a 212 with 65 Creambacks at home too :)
Do you bias your amps like your review? ;)
That's an amazing comparison and I'm finally happy that Creamback is exactly what I want and I don't need to look for vintage Celestion. Though both of them sound great and I probably would be happy with any but it is cool that what I like is something less rare and more affordable.
Thank you Johan! :)
+Peter Osipov Thanks Peter, glad to hear that! Cheers :-)
Johan i Really like your tone! by far this is one of my top Channels on youtube! i would take both speakers! haha. always nice gear and amazing demos cheers!
+Fer Ramirez Thanks my friend, really good to hear that! Cheers!
I use the creamback 65 for pretty much all my rock n' rollering. Just a great general purpose speaker that isn't half bad clean either.
Have you looked into the Hotone Purple Wind? It's a miniature solid state plexi inspired amp you might want to look into, it'd be cool to see your take on it
+Gaming Guitar Player I'll check it out :-)
Hi Johann, cool test. Had a similar issue as I like greenback heritage speakers but for my higher wattage amp needed a higher power rated speakers for a 2x12 cab. Would a g12h with its top end be closer to the vintage greenback 😳 or the neo creamback or even scumback with the paper voice cone?
Or another way to ask the same question would be can you do a video of modern speakers that comes the closest to approximate the sound of vintage greenback in a 65 watt+ power handling range 👍
Would be eternally thankful 🤘
+Peter Along Mannen Thanks, yeah the Celestion Heritage G12H30 55Hz and 75Hz are much closer to the original Greenbacks. In this clip I compare the Heritage 55Hz to the original G12H Greenback
th-cam.com/video/jRx9gH7ugrk/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
I don't have a lot of experience with Greenbacks but as a Creamback owner I can say they are very nice. Great cleans and remain warm yet clear when reaching breakup and into higher gain. Either way you can't go wrong!
I'm a longtime pulsonic greenback guy who uses the creamback 65 in a 1x12 cab to allow for the higher power application.
They are not the same as the originals like you say but I've come to really love it as my go to cab. I would love to load a 4x12 with the creambacks and check that out. Love your channel Johan keep it up!
+Nouveautwang Thanks! Glad you like the channel!
Nouveautwang the creamback is killer in 50 watt combo amps . o have the creamback in a 50 watt open back combo with a vintage 30 in a 1 by 12 extension cab and that combo is perfect lots of low end lower and upper mids and a treble that is rounded just enough . i am mainly a rythum player and heavy riffer so I don't need alot of treble breakup or presence . tried pairing a greenback with the v 30 but do not like the results . the low mids and bass were too loose . for lead I would take a vintage greenback or g12h 30 all the way.
I currently have a 4x12 loaded with V30s, a few 1x12s with various modern Greenbacks, and a 2x12 cab set up Egnater-style with a V30 and an Elite 80. As I'm getting older (aren't we all?) I'm seeking a bit more vintage flavor from present day speaker choices to shake up the 4x12 and the 2x12. This shootout (combined with other speaker videos you have done) is making me think Creambacks are the way to go. Sadly, original vintage speakers are getting a bit too pricy and rarer on eBay these days... and I'm quite certain your videos are helping fuel the demand for vintage speakers with Pulsonic cones. Keep these wonderful, informative videos coming, Johan. Your videos are the best!
+DavidVeeGuitars Thanks David! :-)
This is a rare occasion that I prefer the modern equivalent! That Creamback sounds massively better to my ears. It's definitely derived from the Greenback but just sound "more" or "fuller"?
I know what my next speaker will be!
A 10” Creamback REALLY woke up my Origin 20C. Really thickened it up and cured most of the anemic tendencies of the low power settings. Just a lovely speaker.
Very nice comparison! The question now is that if the modern G12M Creamback isn't actually a good modern replica of an early 70s Greenback, is there a different modern production speaker, whether from Celestion or someone else, that does a better job? I've heard good reviews of WGS' and Ted Weber's versions of the Greenback but a direct comparison like this would be very interesting!
+yetanotherbassdude Yeah we should do a comparison with 25W and 65W versions of Celestion, Scumback, Weber, WGS, Eminence and the original. Cheers
I prefer the Greenback sound in the more sort of rhythm parts played here but prefer the Creamback for lead tone. Which is a really annoying conclusion to come to lol.
+Thomas Carmichael Yeah, it's never convenient ;-)
SAME!!
Interesting! I'm doing the exact opposite!
Excellent video, thank you. Would there be any chance that you could demo the Marshall Vintage Modern 50 watt combo, I have one with 2 x 12"" Celestion Jimi Hendrix Green backs, I can't seem to get a real Hard Rock sound out of it, maybe the Speakers haven't broken in enough yet?
Kind regards,
+John Roberts Thanks John, I actually have a demo of that amp here on the channel. The vintage channel is great but the modern channel is to harsh for my taste
Johan Segeborn , thank you, I am looking forward to seeing your review. I really enjoy watching your demo's, your knowledge of all things Rock and Marshall is sensational. Happy Easter.
kind regards.
Do they still make the greenbacks? What does pre Rola mean? What about vintage 30's? Tell us more, for those just learning the finer points of all this..All about the watts, hertz, ohms, etc.. No one else really says much about it. Thanks.
Hi Johan, would be nice to hear how a Marshall Celestion G12C Greenback sounds against a modern G12M Greenback reissue or original. I believe from the limited info about the G12C, it was used in the Marshall vintage modern and Super 100JH Hendrix stack. Also, info stated it was an attempt to voice the cone like a pulsonic cone?? Wonder if it sounds any different from a regular greenback as I may have an oppurtunity to buy some. What do you think?
+lo5man I liked the tone of the G12C, but it felt very stiff to me even broken in.
Johan I have a RI Creamback in my Vox AC 15. My comment would be patience. It took a ridiculously long time to break in. I finally resorted to playing my Jazz Bass through the amp to shake it up. It now sounds amazing!
Hi Johan, have you compared the 16 ohm versions of the two speakers? Usually the 16 Ohm version has more top end than the 8 ohm from what I have heard. Just a thought.
Your description was right on. I was surprised that the Greenback was so much more articulate on the high end because I think of it as a mid-heavy speaker. The Creamback also didn't have that famous nasal quality of the GB. I thought they would sound more similar than they do. Both of them clearly have the British/Celestion/Marshall flavor, but there was a noticeable difference considering the CB is marketed as a higher power GB.
+Dr C Yeah the original G12M Greenbacks have a really pronounced upper mid, making them fit in so many mixes.
Both very cool sounding speakers. The Greenback is "the" sound though. The Creamback has "something" and is certainly a usable tone but it's a different thing. It seemed to depend on what you were playing as to which I preferred better. Great comparison, as usual, Johan.
+Chris ACT Thanks Chris :-)
Johan, I like the sound of the Greenbacks more, but if I were playing, I think I would enjoy the pick dynamics of the Creambacks. Do you find the Creambacks serve ample definition with single note lead type playing?
+Chax858 When playing single notes I'd prefer the richer harmonic content of the Greenback, but usually trial and error is needed to see which one works best. Cheers
Hi Johan. I had a Creamback in my TAD JTM 1x12 Combo for the last 2 years. A great speaker for sure, providing many of the strengths of its predecessors.
But it always used to have a harsh breakup peak in the high middles, especially at the level of overdrive where the JTM excels, and when I changed my pickups to even more PAF-like, pretty “voicy” ones (from Wizz to Amber Spirit of 59, older A5 version), it was just too much.
Then, a Scumback M75LD 65W came across, and it turned out to perform much creamier, and richer at the same time. I still need to find out if the large dustcap takes away too much top end, so I might go for a small dustcap version later on, but the Scumback definitely brought me the cure for great vintage tone!
Johan have you compared any of the Scumback Speakers to the originals or even the heritage G12M with the originals?
I actually prefer the creamback. Seems more articulate and full to me. Either way they both sound fantastic and please please keep up the great work.
+Colin Robertson Thanks Colin, it will be my pleasure!
Both sound awesome! Actually I haven't seen any bad sound in this channel yet...
How well broken-in was the Creamback speaker? Do you think it will get warmer, rounder, and sweeter in the top after proper break-in? Besides construction, there's obviously 50 years of playing as a difference between them...
Have you ever tested the G12H-75 Creamback? It seems to get even better reviews than the G12M-65
Thanks, glad to hear it! If I remember correctly it had a fair amount of playing on it. The G12H-75 is indeed even better. That’s the speaker in the Astoria series for instance. Cheers
They said the aging/use thing about my v3 g12t-75's, and I've been waiting 20 years for thems things to break in.
great video, as always. I like them both. Have you seen the new Red Back 150 Watters? thinking of grabbing one to use in my 1x12.
+Brett Vanderhoof Thanks Brett! I have tried that one yet, but I really liked the G12B-150 that Marshall put in the 1912 cabs. Cheers
Loved hearing you talk a bit more in the beginning-it was great to hear your thoughts. Wow both sound amazing. Hard for me to pick one. I guess I would pick the one that helps me get that "Johan" sound.
Johan your preface was spot on! Greenback with pulsonic cone had a much sweeter more detailed top end. The Creamback sounded muffled in comparison. The Greenback would cut through the mix so much better, perhaps if you had a backing drum & bass track it would be more apparent.
+MrAtsguitar Thanks, yeah I think so too
I think I like the fact that the creambacks are less nasal. Great video, as usually!
Thanks man!
Had the creamback, kept the Greenback, I felt the cream back is like mixing a v30 and greenback together. My favorite speaker for marshalls is the g12-65. Great DEMO JOHAN !
+Luke Porter Thanks Luke!
Hi Johan, The greenback sounds great but is the watts rating why the greenback is breaking up here? You aren't afraid of blowing the speaker plugging a 25w into a cranked 50 watt amp?
After the intro/lead-in comments I was expecting to be disappointed, but was very surprised at how good the Creamback sounded, and infact, I much preferred its tone to the greenback - side by side the greenback sounds harsh and grating compared to the creamback to me. The creamback has plenty of honk and top end. Another awesome and eye opening demo - Thanks Johan!
Thanks for that comparison!!!
I swear by the creambacks, it's what i use. But i loved both and since i can't find the vintage ones, i'll stick with what i got. Both sound exactly how you describe them though, good call!
+G ts Thanks! Yeah two great speakers.
Hello, I have the opportunity to have either a g12m25 blackback 1978 or creamback g12m25 of 1974. are t'ils comparable to a creamback recent or are they best? thank you.
Hard to decide, they both sound rather nice. So Johan, the greenback is a 25 W speaker being compared to a 65 W speaker. How much of the difference is due to the fact that we are pushing the 25 W speaker harder , and it is breaking down as a result of the power input? Also , was the amp a 50 W being attenuated to a lower level?
Hi, I used a 50W master volume amp and played medium loud. I think the primary diffrebce is in the cone. To me the speakers sound similar whether they're pushed or not. The modern Greenback sounds closer to the Original Greenback. Cheers
I put two Creambacks and two Greenbacks into one of my 1960A cabinetes and I'm very pleased with it. I'll probably do the same to a 1960B cabinet as well, to have the full stack matched in tone.
Great comparison!!! I use a modern Creamback on my 2x12. I always wonder how the original sounds like!!! Thanks Johan!!!
+Oldies Cool Thanks! Glad to hear it!
Great comparison Johan. Creamback didn't have that raunchy top end that the Greenback has. But is the Creamback broken in or is it new out of the box? That could be a factor.
+caylepua This one was actually broken in, but that is indeed often the problem. I think its weird that players think that it's ok to use a speakers for 40-80hours before it sounds ok.
My son bought the new version of the DSL 100. What speakers would you suggest for a closed back 2x12 cabinet (Avatar)? Thanks!
It seems a more fair related comparison would have been between this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback Vs 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback with the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback then compaired against these for comparison. But really cool to see this comparison too and of course the 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback is pretty much the speaker that most all others are judged off of so great to see how these sound in relation to one another. Love your videos!
+Derrick Baranowsky Thanks Derrick, I'm glad to hear that. I compare some of the 1970s G12 cones in this clip
th-cam.com/video/M6IhLfVs6Qg/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
Johan
Yes, I have seen this video and it's great! I just thought it might be more relevant to compare this Modern Celestion G12M-65 creamback with an original 1974 Rola G12M-25 75Hz greyback since that is what it is supposed to be a copy of, instead of an original 1970 Pre Rola G12M-25 75Hz greenback. Still a super cool comparison and not a criticism by any means. As I said, this is a cool comparison and I love your videos ;-)
Derrick Baranowsky it seems the modern speakers don t stand a chance against the pulsonic cones. I would love to hear the creamback against later 70s greenbacks or even the g65 speakers .
Johan, I'm wondering why you don't compare the old greenback with the new greenback (G12M-65) ???
From what I hear, these two speaker have different sound. Both are good, but I still prefer creamback sound.
+Rendy Andrian You mean the new G12M25? I have a clip where I compare 27 Celestions and these two are in there. Cheers
Creamback wins in a single speaker shootout. More full, warmer and less brittle. Creamy and tasty.
In a 4x12 it will be different.
Yes, I was surprised, but I like the Creamback more here too. Might be the amp that favors it.
Hi Johan, I have got a Marshall dsl 40cr the back is half open on this amp, and i hate the v-type speaker that comes with it.
There is a fizzy frequency i cant stand, tryied many things to get rid of it.
I want a speaker change, do you recommend a G12m65 or a g12h75. Playing mostly Hardrock, punk really want good sounding powerchords, please help thx🙂
Both great speakers. I actually preferred the modern one a touch more - it seemed to have a touch body? Both sounded fantastic though.
+Joseph C Thanks Joseph, yeah it had a bit more growl to it
Mr. Segeborn, is it possible to use any of these speakers as an upgrade to a solid state amp like a Fender Mustang V Head or a Crate Power Block CPB 150?
Thanks in advance!
I´m already a subscriber and a fan of your vids. Cheers.
+Dr_Hyde06 Thanks, good to hear you like the videos! You could use a full stack of 8 Greenbacks for a total of 200W with these 150W amps. Or a half stack with the Creamback for a total of 280 W. Cheers Johan
it would give you an improvement for sure, but it's a little like putting sport tires on a cheap car.
Thanks Professor. ;-)
Craving to see next video this Friday.
Man, you made my day! I caught the analogy quite clear.
I meant, if I have a 2x12 with these speakers to use with a Tube amp, the wattage of a Solid state (150) wouldn't affect or blow the Celestions.
Use the 2 creambacks and keep it to 8 and there is little chance of ruining them. The Mustang is a good amp. I love my tube amps, but solid state isn't always bad, just see Johans Lead 12 and Bass 12 vids as examples. I made my own town with the fuse software to mimic a vintage Traynor tone, its Marshall/Bassman like with a different gain type. That is the good thing about the Mustang you can tweak it till you get close to that tone in your head...it just never is quite there is all. 9.5/10 is great, but the 0.5 can drive you mad looking for the missing bit.
I would love to see you do a review with the Neo Creamback. This
a exclusively for Engl Artist Edition Amp designed Speaker. Those speakers sound so nice.
+yerushalaimnehereset It will be my pleasure! :-)
I can definitely hear the difference, so obviously they are not a direct match, but I'm assuming that you used the same amp settings for both? If that's the case, I wonder if you can get the Creamback to sound closer to the Greenback with a simple increase of the presence control? Seems to me that's mostly what it's missing. Great video yet again!
+Brian Peter Thanks Brian, I used the same settings for both, but it would indeed be interesting to see how close to the greenback the Creamback could be tweaked using EQ etc
The creamback certainly is nice. I can see why some would prefer it in this context, but if you want to be heard, the greenback is THE sound. It's woody, but still cuts like a hot knife through butter. Thanks, Johan!
Johan If you absolutely had to pick between creamback n Chinese reissue greenback, which comes closer to the pulsonic gb?
Hello Johan! What about the G12 neo creamback 60W? I'm looking for a new speaker for my 2x12 cabinet and a Marshall Class 5 head. Cheers!
I have a question: How new was the Creamback? Sometimes speakers need to be played very loudly for about 8 hours before they "break in." Something to do with the "doping," a gluelike substance used to reinforce the circular striations near the outer circumference of the paper. Once they're all broken in, they give better upper end response. Would this have been a factor with the Creamback you demonstrated? (I assume that a Greenback from 1970 would have been broken in long ago.)
And, I liked the sound of both speakers, by the way. I think that by mixing them (plus maybe a couple of others) into a 4X12, one might get a very versatile and great-sounding speaker cabinet. Thanks for making this comparison.
+OgamiItto70 They were both broken in
+OgamiItto70 Thanks! :-)
I love the channel, recently found it, and I'm really enjoying it, learning a lot.
I want to build a 1x12 for my 15w EVH LBX. Just bedroom playing. I like a lot of the small amps, Blackstar 1w, Orange Dark Terror, etc. Looking at my speaker options, I like a lot of the 20w and 25w options, but there are a lot of guitar players who advise double the amp w for speakers. Do I need to plan on a 2x12, or am I on the right track? This seems to be a very debated topic. Thanks for your time.
+viper1vols Thanks, great to hear that! I always try to use double the power when I'm gonna play for longer periods. But my 50W Orange OR80 has 2x30 W speakers, so it's indeed a bit confusing. But if you're only gonna play at lower volumes you can use any speaker.
The creamback does sound a bit harder, tighter, and not as shimmery. For some sounds applications that's what I would want. The greenback has that undeniable early sound which is very much what we are used to hearing.
I'd love to have a cab loaded with greenbacks to play at home/record. As for playing out with a band; I'd take a cab loaded with creambacks. They just seem easier to manage in my opinion.
Awesome playing as always!
+Hino Sol Thanks, great to hear that!
Hi Johan! great review.. I was wondering which speaker best pair to G12M-25 75Hz Greenback?
I did not think the out come will be like it is, but i prefer the modern Creamback !
Again, great clip Johan - much appreciated
Thanks Jack
Just recently found out that there can be a huge difference between 8Ohm and 16Ohm speakers. Be interesting if you could get hold of a 16Ohm Creamback
Similar, but also very different.
The greenback. Is nicely boosted in the mid notes. Were the creamback gives the sound a zing to it. Also the bottom end of them both are different. I would almost suggest to putt a spectrum analizer on it to show the diffrence.
+Dhr Willemsen Thanks, that's a good idea
J.D. Willemsen I love the creamback for what it is instead of being dissapointed in what it's not . the tonal foundation and footprint is the same but some of the finer details are not . clestion did say that the crramback was designed to have the greenback sound but have a bigger low end that is much tighter under volume and gain and to have higher power handling so it's not designed to have the exact same sound but rather get you a g12m style sound with better bass response and power . I would imagine they could only get so close to the original when they added the bigger tight lower end and higher wattage handling . I think it's a great effort and they did very well
I Think the Creamback sounds better,,,, Thanks Johan for all videos.. Really like them all !
+dnabiologic Thanks! Really good to hear that!
I LOVE that Korina V!!! I'm with you on that "nasal" quality old speakers have. Even the old Jensen P series speakers have a bit of it. The Creamback sounds great for a modern speaker, you can definitely do a lot worse.
+Matt Fields Thanks, yeah that V has become my favorite ;-)
Johan Segeborn is it an 80's reissue or a new one?
Either way, I'm happy that Gibson has made them. A truly amazing design for 1958. As with the ES-335's, they are iconic instruments that have stood the test of time.
Hello sir, could you give me an advise if what celestion speaker should I match with my fender blues deluxe? I believe you are the authority when it comes to speaker selection and matching. I usually play cleans.Thank you so much.
The original is more 'on your face' kind of. A surround! Great video!
By the way: just bought a Lead 12, all because your review. This little beast will cheers the barbecue jam nights.
Thanks... again.
+aschneider70 Thanks! You will love the Lead 12!
Subscribed. You have absolutely inspired me to experiment with speaker swapping. Thank you.
I like the Creamback a lot. Is there an H-magnet 55Hz version?
- I'd be very interested to hear your demo, and thoughts on the Redback!
I liked them both, but prefered the vintage one. It has this pleasant air on top in addition to the top end gain you were talking about. I would love to see a comparison between a modern g12m 25w and that vintage one. Also ive got an issue with my amp, i posted a video to show the problem. I really need some input on what the problem might be!
+Lars Sig Thanks, I'll check it out!
+Lars Sig Hi, in this clip a Uncle Doug goes to though the difference between different hum frequencies
th-cam.com/video/GrVtX0QGNls/w-d-xo.html
Uncle Doug is another great channel. Different than yours but awesome as well.
Yeah very informal. Makes me wanna learn electronics for real!
Johan's and Uncle Dougs channel got me to start building my first own tube amp. :)
My only question is how much play time is on the creamback? If its brand new, once it is broken in it may sound a bit different..... None the less both sound great, just different from each other, and keep in mind the greenback has 47+ years of use/playtime on it. : ) In my opinion one of each of these in a 2x12 cab would sound amazing : ) Keep up the good work Johan! : )
+JJ Collins Thanks JJ! I think it's pretty much broken in. Cheers
Since I am considering buying a Celestion Fullback 15' for my DSL40C, this was really interesting. You are really right, Johan, that the greenback sounds considerably "dirtier" and thicker giving an impression of gain, and the creamback much more clean, tight and controlled sounding. I do like the creamback, but search for that thick and dirty sound of the Pulsonic greenbacks. Do you think the Fullback lacks that rich high freq breakup of the greenback, Johan? Do you remember reflecting over that? BR Magnus
Would he interesting to throw a ted weber greenback clone both lower wattage and higher wattage in the mix to see how it fares. For marshall mid crunch I prefer the greenback I think both use able sound maybe one track of each to allow them different positions in the mix.
To me the Creamback sounds like the speaker to record with and the Greenback is to play live with
+Johan Segeborn Have you got a G12H(55) that you could demo in a clean fender???
+Kai Paxman I compare 27 Celestions in a clip here on the channel with clean sound which includes the Heritage H55
Amazing video as always sir! I just had an idea, what if you used a 212 cab with both speakers miced up, each panned hard left nd right? Can give a clear contrast between the two and show the tonal possibilities if both together. Cheers!
The early 70s G 12M 25 waters hit the sweet spot for me John. My first Marshall cabinet what is the 4x12 large 2032 with these speakers . I also tried a lot of other speakers and for me they hit the mark…….Cheers…… Keep on rockin
I bought the Creambacks once as I wanted the early G12M sound and was so disappointed. They just didn't give me the tone or breakup that I wanted. I then bought a new cab with the Heritage G12M Speakers and love them. The top end break up was what I was looking for. The creambacks just don't break up enough unfortunately. My JTM50 didn't sound good through them at all. They sound good with that Master Volume amp in your video though.
Great video as always by the way.
+Ryan Bianchi Thanks Ryan, yeah the Heritage series is as close to the original speakers it gets today. Cheers Johan
+Johan Segeborn Can you do a video comparing the Heritage G12M to the G12M-20 and G12M-25? People say the Heritage G12M doesn't sound like the old Greenbacks but I suspect it was based on the original 20W Greenbacks.
I suppose they did as much as they could to get a similar tone while adding 40 watts of power handling capability. Must be some serious trade-offs to make that happen. Either way, both sound great. Thanks for the demo Johan!
+Rick McCargar Thanks Rick! But I don't know if the difference is that big between the 25 and 65 watt versions of the Scumback speakers. Anyway they both sound great to me. Just different. Cheers!
Awesome comparison!! I love both of these!!! But the creamback is my favorite! Not necessarily the best but my personal favorite! 😄
Hi Johan, I guess you are using the same amp settings for both speakers. Did you check breakup of creamback loaded close to its max rating?
+Michał Pachocki Yeah, they had the exact same setup. I maxed out the 2204 into the Creamback too and that primarily resulted in more bass. Cheers
I just bought two creambacks myself. They sound great out of the box. I think they have some v30 character.
The original has amazing detail and character. These 2 speakers would probably mix well together in a 2x12 or 4x12. Would like to see more vids of different Celestions together. I remember how great my 4x12 sounded with 2 V30's/ 2 Celestion G12H30's. What about Celestion blue/G12H 30, G12H30 Bass cone/G12H30 Lead cone, Etc., Thanks!
+tonebender69 Thanks, that's good idea. I combine G12H and JBL as well as G12H and Goodmans in these clips.
th-cam.com/video/TN7qY3ClzNE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/-SVTtLa5i_Y/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
Johan
I was wondering that maybe the reason that you didn't get the top end breakup from creambacks as you get from the greenbacks or this nasal quality you are seeking, stems from the difference in power handling. The creambacks can handle more than twice the wattage than greenbacks. Therefore, maybe when running a 4x12 with greenbacks the speakers would breakup about as much as with a 2x12 with creambacks powered by 100watt marshall head. Just a theory!
+Myself6M Higher power speakers are indeed darker. But basically retain the same frequency response regardless of how hard they are pushed. Cheers
Have you tried the Lynch Back? The concept is to have vintage tone with modern power handling...
I just picked up a 1960B allegedly from early 70's, it has 25 watt, 16 ohm Rola Creambacks, did Marshall install those around then?
74
@@zachariahwade8482 thanks
@@zachariahwade8482 I have a 1960B with gray back Rolas also, 70-something
@@marksguitars5617
Love old Marshall cabs !! I’ve got a 68 B cab with the original pre-Rola Greenbacks but my fave is a 77 A cab with the original 30 watt Blackbacks on top and V30’s on bottom.
I’ve been looking at getting a 74 A cab selling locally with the original Creambacks and researching those speakers I found this video and another of Johann’s where he explains they only made them in 74 and their codes.
Enjoy your cab
@@zachariahwade8482 thanks! I have a bit of variety. I also have a 1960A that was savaged, no grill and tolex ripped to shreds, that one has early Rola Greenbacks. Marshall cabinets are the best, no question!
Are the speakers of the same ohm rating? Some tests show a difference.
I think you should have one of each in a mesa 2x12 rectifier cab. They actually compliment each other. But if I could only pick one, I would do the creamback. It has a more rounded and less papery sound than the greenback. Amp choice would possibly change this though.
+john tone yeah, this test is primarily valid for Marshall type amps
I love these speakers but both really should be being pushed to the same extent. They are both at their best when pushed with a cranked amp. The 25 Watt Greenback with a cranked 1974 18 Watt and the 65 Watt Creamback with a cranked 2204 or JTM50. Very difficult to compare properly without them driven as intended. Interesting vid though. Is that really a 1x12 being driven by a 50W amp or are there other speakers elsewhere? Great fun as always Johan! Thanks
+Charles Shaw Thanks Charles, its only 1x12. They retain their basic character when being pushed but with more bass and sustain. But granted, a single test setup never gives you the full picture.
Great video, love the tone on both. Maybe I missed it, but what type of power were you pushing to each? The same or did you increase power on the creamback to drive it closer to its breakup point?
They both sound pretty great actually. Obviously quite different but they both would have their place. It'd be great to have a cab for each, and record the same performance through both speakers, then blend them in the mix where ever it fits best. Great video man, straight to the point, and sounds are killer!
So... If I use a good multi band equlizer... how many speakers can I emulate ;)