I'm thinking a diesel-electric with this type of Axel motor combination would be A good idea. I would like to see some testing in developed on that concept
A lot of classic cars use leaf spring suspensions this would be great if you could get them in the right size to fit. It would be so much easier to convert without having to hookup a electric motor to a transmission and or driveshaft. Less parts less unneeded weight.
Those axles would be great as a mod to trailers too. It will be good for a take off boost and more braking with not only the disk brakes but regen as well. So many possibilities with this axle.
New Scout EVs (Terra and Traveler) have this design solid rear axle EV setup. Having the differential, electric motor, and inverter all traveling up and down is a lot of moving, un-sprung weight. Also, the high voltage, high current power cables are not moving / flexible things tethered between the axle and the frame - a potential big safety issue should those cables ever fray, ground, or get cut.
Hey just got a 2020 f150 xlt what do you think ? There is very little rust underneath , quite clean actually. First thing I checked. Thanks for the tips .
Neat concept, I’d rather see two motors per axle , one for each wheel & easily replaceable as axles easily out live motors, also the truck would have plenty of room under the hood for a Cummins generator because it’s gonna need it because the current battery tech is horrible
Looks like awesome tech but if you're converting an existing chassis to full electric you'd still need to find a place to house the battery. I wish Magna would just take all their oem innovations and create their own Canadian car brand!
@@Napalmdog small engine to charge the batteries for long trips 🤔 that's a damn good idea like a hybrid but how much more weight is it going to add to put more stress on the batteries and electric motors
@@vlc9521 In the boat community they have developed ultra high output alternators to do away with heavy bulky unreliable gensets.. the alternators come in 12 &24 V versions with outputs in the 230Amps + possible.. it takes about 10--15 hp to spin one under full load but they are designed for Diesel engines and develope a significant % of their output straight from tick over and up. The optimum in size power light wt efficiency is the new heavy fuel rotor wankle APU units that some companies have developed for Aviation and military use. ..
Why couldn't they have an axle upfront and an axle in the rear and have one powering the trucks movement forward and one charging the batteries while it's moving? When you want more traction the axle creating power could be used to work with the other axle pushing the truck foward. I know there would be some form of resistance but don't you think that would increase the mileage?
That's implemented in braking systems, otherwise known as regenerative braking. And that braking force is why you can't simply let a generator be pushed along generating power; the generation creates a hell of a lot of drag.
I can see that going into a mainstream vehicle in the not so distant future. One of those cartoon trucks headlights in there video looked like the upcoming tundra spy shots we've seen! 😶
clever product, might be interesting now. but what about the front axle- my pickup needs 4x4! and anyway, in the end we need hub motors (plus the magic battery..) to be able to design real EV's with enormous freedom for the designer.
Deafening silence about the main challenge - easy-to-fit battery-packs. Space has been free'd up in the engine compartment - so that's where some batteries could go. We just need a video showing a combustion pickup being effortlessly converted in 3-4 days by a couple of savvy DIY'ers or pro-converters. With range options between 100-250 miles. And if conversions cost much more than $25,000 excluding donor ICE pickup - forget it. Especially if that $25k only buys you 50-100 miles of real-world range. Paul G
I'd love to get an equivalent dana 70 dually axle and put it under my 18K lb gvwr Class A Rv. Then I'd put in a big diesel generator to keep the batteries charged. So, there is no need to plug it in along the way.
This is Magna not some tinpot startup out of San Fran. This system could be a kit sold to owners who don’t have any interest in the ridiculous “must haves” of new trucks. I need a truck to haul my hay, that’s it, no need for anything else.
maybe they will sell a version I can put in my 68 LeMan's? Yah, this is KISS for sure but you almost need the skateboard platform to stuff in all the batteries.
Stick them where the old lump went and fuel tank ... Or use the flatter type BYD blade packs .. between chassis rails. Perfect vehicle to convert🤔 is something like the old VW T2 crew cab pick up trucks its been done several times ..i suspect thats where Rivian got their inspiration for the cross/ through cab store tunnel😉 and then youve all the space under the rear bench seat in the back.and where the engine mostly lived... you'd double the power output as well even without a front motor giving two driven axels.😁 Other candidates include minivans /MPVs light Transit type Vans and Estate cars. 😎
The 4WD version appears to be disconnected. I'm curious how well off-roading would work or feel when the power delivery is disconnected between the axles. Perhaps they could connect the transfer case to the rear axle leaving the driveshaft in place to lock the front and rear wheels together. This might also be easier for OEM's to implement as well. Just a thought.
@@ITrustInDog could always design a motor/housing to encompass the area where a traditional transfer case is. That way you can still lock front and rear together mechanically with minimal change to the layout.
@@ITrustInDog You could have 100% ICE trucks or 100% Electric. Or a Rear wheel drive by ICE plus an electric Front axle for hybrid applications, with no transfer case needed.
This really is nothing more than a traction motor, which has been around for 100 years. It has been used on locomotives, golf carts, toy cars, elevators and other applications for years.
I'm old school and will not go past my 2011 chevy 1500 LS that still as a radio C.D. player. The new stuff is just hype in my opinion. I use to be a ford guy but they pissed me off and I will never buy a ford again. Oh and my 1500 has little to no rust on it And I live in the midwest. Ok so I don't drive it in the winter mouths is why it has little to no rust on it. But it's the best truck I have own'd and I only payed 12,000.00 for it with 30,000 miles on it. It has about 65,000 miles on it now. And I have the title to it. Most people never get to see a title or even know what one is...LOL
How can a traditional truck company be competitive outsourcing their drive trains when they're competing with vertically integrated companies building in house. This makes no sense. If I was in charge of ford/gm/ram... I'd say "nah we're all good, we'll just make that ourselves"... and save 30% forever.
Contracts and economies of scale I’d imagine help that. ZF makes transmissions for OEMs, Dana makes axles, so it’s not uncommon to see such partnerships.
@@ALMX5DP Companies also license. Ford licenses from ZF and builds the unit to their cost. Designing a transmission from scratch could cost 100s of millions. They may license their design.
GM and Chrysler used to own American Axle and new venture gear together. They found it was better to sell off those divisions and sub contract. Magna essentially bought most of those previous chassis and drive train divisions. Of note. GM went back to making in house rear axles in 2019.
Game Changer and it’s coming for sure; maybe in the ... Apple automobile 😜. Apple is a North American company and so is GM and Ford and ... so is Magna. Let’s work together (stronger together) on this continent (buy North American) and not polarize each other as some selfish narcissist want. This is a great story Tim, a good “scoop”. Lots of educated minds (i.e. engineers) at Magna that I can only imagine, mainly come from N.America or elsewhere, similar to the founder who came from Europe +50 years ago and where my ancestors came from +300 yrs. ago. Thanks very much for this story Tim. Robert 🇨🇦
Well they should fix the grammar in the presentation before they send it out. Also where is it? Let’s see it. Electrification sounds good but power doesn’t just come from no where. It’s just an excuse to raise the price. I hope the govt doesn’t get involved and start subsidizing things-if this thing works let them bring it to market. Maybe they could hire someone with a little bit more pizzazz to present the product next time. I do appreciate the info though
A potentially great way to EV-retrofit some cool old trucks. Those of us who enjoy both classic trucks and electric drivetrains will benefit greatly from such a simple system. Yes, this is not a new idea at all, it just needs to achieve sufficient market penetration for prices to come down to the point where I can slap one of these in a rust-free old truck here in the Nevada high desert, and keep it going for decades to come. A long-lived solid-state lithium battery, some PV panels, and there's your "lifetime transportation"...
I'm just picturing in my head the vast array of components that would be tossed from say, the 1969 Ford C-750 tilt-cab flatbed dump truck that we're going to be towing home in coming days, and all the room that would be left for a battery. I'd be quite content with 20 miles of usable range from that C-750, for "around town" tasks.
Cover the small roof of the tilt cab with PV panels, and the very low duty cycle a truck like that would be put to, and it could be "plug free" much of the time...
An inductive charging plate under the truck's usual parking spot, and every time you park it, it could be charged from the grid, if the Sun isn't enough to keep up with usage...
why make a new axel why not just make a rim hub electric moter then all you have to do is mount it like a tire and rim and plug it in. Then make a solarpanel rack 3000watts on top that can get you 30 miles per day with out pluging in. I'm trying this but with an electric motor cycle and a sidecar.
Question is how expensive will it be? ICE trucks are already too expensive. Electric trucks are not going to be any cheaper than existing ICE trucks, but be even more expensive,
Sure, cost is always a concern. My thinking is an OEM is going to need a rear axle solution anyway for an EV, why not just go with something like this than a more complex system with in-wheel motors?
Umm... why? Just leave the driveline and put the motor under the hood where it belongs. Out of the elements, no flexing cables, no unnecessary addition of unsprung weight... this doesn’t make sense to me.
@@Pickuptrucktalk agreed it would be more efficient from a driveline loss standpoint but if we’re talking simplicity of making an existing platform electrified, that’s the way it’s done currently. I also don’t see having that kind of additional unsprung weight as a positive nor flexing high wattage cables constantly as a long term viable thing.
I think that would depend on the design. If it still used traditional solid axle design to be drop-in, fluid may still need to be changed on some type of interval.
Rather change fluid than the repairs on that complex thing. They can't even make the one they have without rusting from the factory. Ford always trying to reinvent the wheel.
I'm with Alan. I have a short bed, single axle trailer I just did a back-up assist video on. That damn thing jacknives just looking at it. Much easier with back-up assist.
Can't wait, would love to be able to use this for a conversion.
I'm thinking a diesel-electric with this type of Axel motor combination would be A good idea. I would like to see some testing in developed on that concept
Edison motors is working on just thst concept in caneda.
A lot of classic cars use leaf spring suspensions this would be great if you could get them in the right size to fit. It would be so much easier to convert without having to hookup a electric motor to a transmission and or driveshaft. Less parts less unneeded weight.
All housed within one unit, simplifying the drivetrain and upping efficiency; I want one for my Dodge A108 van!
Those axles would be great as a mod to trailers too. It will be good for a take off boost and more braking with not only the disk brakes but regen as well. So many possibilities with this axle.
As a software engineer for 30 years, KISS always brings success!!!
I really hope the use the e-beam, I would love to salvage the 2 speed solid axle for use in classic ev conversions.
The first company that actually offers a wide assortment of "bolt-on" aftermarket electric axle retrofit kits... will rake in trillions!
Great idea for making a 6 wheel drive
And the planet is saved. Thanks, Magna!
New Scout EVs (Terra and Traveler) have this design solid rear axle EV setup. Having the differential, electric motor, and inverter all traveling up and down is a lot of moving, un-sprung weight. Also, the high voltage, high current power cables are not moving / flexible things tethered between the axle and the frame - a potential big safety issue should those cables ever fray, ground, or get cut.
This would be amazing for a Jeep or old pick up
Hey just got a 2020 f150 xlt what do you think ? There is very little rust underneath , quite clean actually. First thing I checked. Thanks for the tips .
Neat concept, I’d rather see two motors per axle , one for each wheel & easily replaceable as axles easily out live motors, also the truck would have plenty of room under the hood for a Cummins generator because it’s gonna need it because the current battery tech is horrible
Agree, EV battery capability isn't where it needs to be, especially would be EV owners who live in northern climates.
These guys are about as exciting and inspiring as wet toast
Sure, but how exciting is an electric motor housed within an axle?
They need to make one for smaller trucks as well. My 72 Datsun truck is waiting
Rust will be listed as an option.
It will be listed as an option that adds character.
LOL
Looks like awesome tech but if you're converting an existing chassis to full electric you'd still need to find a place to house the battery.
I wish Magna would just take all their oem innovations and create their own Canadian car brand!
And how would you connect this to your current engine and driveline assuming you can retrofit you current traditional truck?
u dont its stand alone
My thoughts are either replace my drivetrain in its entirety or install a smaller engine to simply supply the juice to the motor.
@@Napalmdog small engine to charge the batteries for long trips 🤔 that's a damn good idea like a hybrid but how much more weight is it going to add to put more stress on the batteries and electric motors
@@vlc9521
In the boat community they have developed ultra high output alternators to do away with heavy bulky unreliable gensets.. the alternators come in 12 &24 V versions with outputs in the 230Amps + possible.. it takes about 10--15 hp to spin one under full load but they are designed for Diesel engines and develope a significant % of their output straight from tick over and up.
The optimum in size power light wt efficiency is the new heavy fuel rotor wankle APU units that some companies have developed for Aviation and military use. ..
Do the e beams with single motors have locking differentials?
Excellent work Tim as always.
Will it still be caked with rust?
whats the price for the dual motor to fit a 99 f150 long bed 2wd? and where can i order one?
You think I need one of these to electrfy my 1987 Isuzu Pup, or should I just use something from a Tuktuk ?
Why couldn't they have an axle upfront and an axle in the rear and have one powering the trucks movement forward and one charging the batteries while it's moving? When you want more traction the axle creating power could be used to work with the other axle pushing the truck foward. I know there would be some form of resistance but don't you think that would increase the mileage?
That's implemented in braking systems, otherwise known as regenerative braking. And that braking force is why you can't simply let a generator be pushed along generating power; the generation creates a hell of a lot of drag.
Is width adjustable
I can see that going into a mainstream vehicle in the not so distant future. One of those cartoon trucks headlights in there video looked like the upcoming tundra spy shots we've seen! 😶
clever product, might be interesting now. but what about the front axle- my pickup needs 4x4! and anyway, in the end we need hub motors (plus the magic battery..) to be able to design real EV's with enormous freedom for the designer.
Deafening silence about the main challenge - easy-to-fit battery-packs. Space has been free'd up in the engine compartment - so that's where some batteries could go. We just need a video showing a combustion pickup being effortlessly converted in 3-4 days by a couple of savvy DIY'ers or pro-converters. With range options between 100-250 miles. And if conversions cost much more than $25,000 excluding donor ICE pickup - forget it. Especially if that $25k only buys you 50-100 miles of real-world range.
Paul G
It's probably $25k per axle, then you need to buy a battery and the speed controller.
What is the benefit of this verse using a conventional axle up to electric motor (less friction perhaps)? I didn’t hear the reason for the re-design.
less parts more torq less weight
Would this work or can be added to an AWD sedan car?
I'd love to get an equivalent dana 70 dually axle and put it under my 18K lb gvwr Class A Rv. Then I'd put in a big diesel generator to keep the batteries charged. So, there is no need to plug it in along the way.
Interesting. I think you should challenge them to a real test on this tech by having them install t=it into that old Nissan pickup of yours.
This is Magna not some tinpot startup out of San Fran. This system could be a kit sold to owners who don’t have any interest in the ridiculous “must haves” of new trucks. I need a truck to haul my hay, that’s it, no need for anything else.
Will the vehicle still need a separate battery?
Separate? The EV battery should be big enough to use these axles.
maybe they will sell a version I can put in my 68 LeMan's?
Yah, this is KISS for sure but you almost need the skateboard platform to stuff in all the batteries.
If it in a truck mount them to the bottom of the truck
Stick them where the old lump went and fuel tank ... Or use the flatter type BYD blade packs .. between chassis rails.
Perfect vehicle to convert🤔 is something like the old VW T2 crew cab pick up trucks its been done several times ..i suspect thats where Rivian got their inspiration for the cross/ through cab store tunnel😉 and then youve all the space under the rear bench seat in the back.and where the engine mostly lived... you'd double the power output as well even without a front motor giving two driven axels.😁
Other candidates include minivans /MPVs light Transit type Vans and Estate cars. 😎
I wish these guys would reach out to me . I’ll privately test products for them .🤓💪
That is very interesting.
It's about the battery. For most. Always was.
Any news on this
Magna is still promoting it. I think they are just waiting for an OEM to buy it.
*batteries not included
Looks like this will go into the G-wagon first
How much does this rear axel cost?
They don't sell to consumers.
@@Pickuptrucktalk 😢😢😢
How much does it cost,, that would be a great new project 👌👌👌
Don't think they are selling them to consumers.
Ford etc could develop an electric truck that runs down the same production line as a “normal “ truck. Promising work by a really good company
Yep, you get it.
The 4WD version appears to be disconnected. I'm curious how well off-roading would work or feel when the power delivery is disconnected between the axles. Perhaps they could connect the transfer case to the rear axle leaving the driveshaft in place to lock the front and rear wheels together. This might also be easier for OEM's to implement as well. Just a thought.
@@ITrustInDog could always design a motor/housing to encompass the area where a traditional transfer case is. That way you can still lock front and rear together mechanically with minimal change to the layout.
@@ITrustInDog You could have 100% ICE trucks or 100% Electric. Or a Rear wheel drive by ICE plus an electric Front axle for hybrid applications, with no transfer case needed.
How much did the Ebeam cost.....
Basically, it's an axle, an electric motor and a whole bunch of marketing guff.
I too fail to see whats so special
This really is nothing more than a traction motor, which has been around for 100 years. It has been used on locomotives, golf carts, toy cars, elevators and other applications for years.
Shhhh, they’re “innovative”
It's about the battery. For most. Always was.
@@BroPeep makes swaping easy thats why just replacing the rear end with the ebeam and hooking up the battery
I'm old school and will not go past my 2011 chevy 1500 LS that still as a radio C.D. player. The new stuff is just hype in my opinion. I use to be a ford guy but they pissed me off and I will never buy a ford again. Oh and my 1500 has little to no rust on it And I live in the midwest. Ok so I don't drive it in the winter mouths is why it has little to no rust on it. But it's the best truck I have own'd and I only payed 12,000.00 for it with 30,000 miles on it. It has about 65,000 miles on it now. And I have the title to it. Most people never get to see a title or even know what one is...LOL
How can a traditional truck company be competitive outsourcing their drive trains when they're competing with vertically integrated companies building in house. This makes no sense.
If I was in charge of ford/gm/ram... I'd say "nah we're all good, we'll just make that ourselves"... and save 30% forever.
Contracts and economies of scale I’d imagine help that. ZF makes transmissions for OEMs, Dana makes axles, so it’s not uncommon to see such partnerships.
@@ALMX5DP Companies also license. Ford licenses from ZF and builds the unit to their cost. Designing a transmission from scratch could cost 100s of millions. They may license their design.
GM and Chrysler used to own American Axle and new venture gear together. They found it was better to sell off those divisions and sub contract. Magna essentially bought most of those previous chassis and drive train divisions.
Of note. GM went back to making in house rear axles in 2019.
so how can i get one
They don't sell to the public.
Game Changer and it’s coming for sure; maybe in the ... Apple automobile 😜. Apple is a North American company and so is GM and Ford and ... so is Magna. Let’s work together (stronger together) on this continent (buy North American) and not polarize each other as some selfish narcissist want. This is a great story Tim, a good “scoop”. Lots of educated minds (i.e. engineers) at Magna that I can only imagine, mainly come from N.America or elsewhere, similar to the founder who came from Europe +50 years ago and where my ancestors came from +300 yrs. ago. Thanks very much for this story Tim. Robert 🇨🇦
Well they should fix the grammar in the presentation before they send it out. Also where is it? Let’s see it. Electrification sounds good but power doesn’t just come from no where. It’s just an excuse to raise the price. I hope the govt doesn’t get involved and start subsidizing things-if this thing works let them bring it to market. Maybe they could hire someone with a little bit more pizzazz to present the product next time. I do appreciate the info though
someone needs to get into the electrified trailer business with V2H and V2G capabilities.
A potentially great way to EV-retrofit some cool old trucks. Those of us who enjoy both classic trucks and electric drivetrains will benefit greatly from such a simple system.
Yes, this is not a new idea at all, it just needs to achieve sufficient market penetration for prices to come down to the point where I can slap one of these in a rust-free old truck here in the Nevada high desert, and keep it going for decades to come.
A long-lived solid-state lithium battery, some PV panels, and there's your "lifetime transportation"...
I'm just picturing in my head the vast array of components that would be tossed from say, the 1969 Ford C-750 tilt-cab flatbed dump truck that we're going to be towing home in coming days, and all the room that would be left for a battery.
I'd be quite content with 20 miles of usable range from that C-750, for "around town" tasks.
Cover the small roof of the tilt cab with PV panels, and the very low duty cycle a truck like that would be put to, and it could be "plug free" much of the time...
An inductive charging plate under the truck's usual parking spot, and every time you park it, it could be charged from the grid, if the Sun isn't enough to keep up with usage...
Sell a retrofit system w/ batteries and controller - I'll install 4-5 next year in our fleet that needs engines replaced.
Prices may come down a bit by then, but I bet it would still be at least a $15-20k retrofit.
This is so much better than the fully independent suspension designs from Rivian, Tesla, Hummer EV, all that junk.
why make a new axel why not just make a rim hub electric moter then all you have to do is mount it like a tire and rim and plug it in. Then make a solarpanel rack 3000watts on top that can get you 30 miles per day with out pluging in. I'm trying this but with an electric motor cycle and a sidecar.
Question is how expensive will it be? ICE trucks are already too expensive. Electric trucks are not going to be any cheaper than existing ICE trucks, but be even more expensive,
Sure, cost is always a concern. My thinking is an OEM is going to need a rear axle solution anyway for an EV, why not just go with something like this than a more complex system with in-wheel motors?
Not really innovative. Other companies have similar electric axles. Dana has had something similar for a few years.
Still no 1 ton option. Need an EV gas/diesel hybrid solution to a 1 ton working man’s truck.
That will be a hydrogen powertrain. An EV just can't do it and a diesel hybrid is very costly.
Umm... why? Just leave the driveline and put the motor under the hood where it belongs. Out of the elements, no flexing cables, no unnecessary addition of unsprung weight... this doesn’t make sense to me.
KISS would dictate bolting an electric motor to the existing driveline.
I'd think the motor under the hood would be wildly inefficient in an EV. It is much more efficient to have the motor next to the item it is moving.
@@Pickuptrucktalk agreed it would be more efficient from a driveline loss standpoint but if we’re talking simplicity of making an existing platform electrified, that’s the way it’s done currently.
I also don’t see having that kind of additional unsprung weight as a positive nor flexing high wattage cables constantly as a long term viable thing.
Put it in the back of a fwd vehicle. A civic for fun. Or a work van to bring it back from the dead
no more differential oil changes 👍
I think that would depend on the design. If it still used traditional solid axle design to be drop-in, fluid may still need to be changed on some type of interval.
Rather change fluid than the repairs on that complex thing. They can't even make the one they have without rusting from the factory. Ford always trying to reinvent the wheel.
I wonder who is shelling out the cash for this tech?
The same ones dishing it out for any major tech now; Rich buyers.
Will never buy and EV truck
If you get anxiety while backing up your trailer, you're not worthy of owning one
I disagree.
I'm with Alan. I have a short bed, single axle trailer I just did a back-up assist video on. That damn thing jacknives just looking at it. Much easier with back-up assist.
Seems to me ford should learn how to make the one they have currently without rusting from the factory
please buy a dodge
Boring presentation!