In the mid-50s my dad(a Biophysicist) said that Electric cars are our future and necessary to our future. We built and electric gokart using a starter motor from a Packard V12. He would have been 100 years old this year and would have loved to see where we are now headed, though, likely, would have complained that it has taken too long.
certainly the future. modern batteries are the main problem. lithium, cobalt etc need to go. we need to use more sustainable materials even if that means less efficiency. also consider that if everyone is driving electric cars that's going to tax the power grid to a point it can't handle. we need to 100x electric power production.
Tim Woolfer's research has probably led to a wonderful opportunities, he has waited in patience whilst constantly fixing concerning issues antd constanly working hard on improvising his topology is quite admirable. His patience is just amazing. Recently i have seen Christopher Koinseg building a quite similar motor topology but he says its a raxial flux motor. Which is very similar to YASA. But Yasa is the future of EVs. A big applause to TIM and Yasa's association with AMG is not such an easy achievement
I allow myself to warmly greet, For over more than ten years I've been developing a model of an “Axial Flux Coaxial Magnetic Generator Motor”, which I consider has especial features: Summarizing its main strengths: 1. Doesn't have, neither needs the stator. 2. The coaxial system provides two (02) angular moments, to the kinetic energy. 3. Merges the “power” of the moment reactive torsion (-Mt), with the original force that produces it. 4. Neutralize the (-Mt) moment reactive torsion. 5. Replace part of the electrical energy it consumes. 6. The transmission system is included. 7. Doesn't occupy useful space. 8. Doesn't represent extra weight for the damping system. 9. Develop a high torque in a low energy consumption (DC). 10. Assist the vehicle stability. 11. Can work in rough conditions, even underwater. 12. Its dimensions are directly proportional to its power, without consuming high currents at the moment of breaking the inertia. If any interest exists over the product with the characteristics mentioned, I manifest my total will to share the Theoretical Framework, as one of my main objectives is to develop a prototype of this product and use all my efforts into a good end.
Sir do you have any social media account I can contact you on, I'm making an axial flux motor too and desperate help of how I make the wind, and place the magnet, also has no idea how to cool it, my goals aren't that high and innovative, I want to make a motor as powerful and reliable as yasa motor and that's it basically, please reply please
I don't know now, but before Mercedes Benz acquired them, there was the possibility to purchase that motor and also the gearbox if you wanted. In my Uni we were interested in getting one for the Formula SAE. They really deserve the spot light. I guess is also cheaper than last time I asked for the price.
If we look at vehicles with a maximum acceleration of 5m/s.s and 3.5m/s.s (fast and normal ICE vehicle acceleration), and assume torque vectoring on all four wheels, we could have two drive units, each with two small axial flux motors. Each motor would be packaged with a planetary gear system and an inboard brake and half shaft all axially aligned. The casing could include rack and pinion steering for both front and rear units - can use identical units front and rear. Each front/rear unit would need inverters for each motor, the oil pump motor, steering motor. There would be an oil/coolant heat exchanger. The inputs to the drive unit would be communication from vehicle controls (all human controls entered via an aircraft style side-stick (steering, brake acceleration), low and high voltage power so the drive unit will stay awake if DC power cut and coolant. The outputs are data to the vehicle controller/sidestick, two half shafts and two steering arms. In going to a 'giga-casting' the casting is not strong enough to resist fatigue loading from a MacPherson strut. The suspension should be double wishbones and horizontal suspension like F1 and other high performance vehicles. This means the giga-casting only face accident loading such as Short Overlap Test at their extremities. The wheels could be flush to the tyre on the inside and have fully enclosed wheel covers on the outer. Suspension components can be shaped for lowest drag life F1. The underfloor can be shaped for best aerodynamics.
You do know that rare earth is a misnomer? The only reason 'rare earth' metals are a 'problem' is China and Russia has a lot of them it is not there rareness.
To be clear, they said "working with Mercedes," however Mercedes acquired YASA motors over a year ago. I doubt they acquired them to sell the motors to competitors. No, they probably see it as a competitive advantage that they'd like to keep to themselves. Wonder what the real world impact is - the EQS 580 4MATIC that Munro & Associates looked at, seemed like it had a standard radial motor.
I dunno, you could probably make a silly amount of money by licencing the motor to other manufacturers rather than keeping it to yourself and making your competitors research and develop their own
@@TheBoringInvestorMan exactly. Buying them assures your own supply. There's already an aerospace spinout from YASA whose job it is to put their motors into electric aircraft.
Mercedes makes a shitload of money licensing car-related technology already. If they don't license it, there are higher chances of competitors coming up with something similar yet different enough to get around any legal claim and get fucked side-ways anyway.
I drive a 2002 EV a Fiat elettra. Still going strong on its 3'rd set of batteries. I had my first EV in 1991. They have been around forever if you wanted to buy them, you could in Europe. Axial flux motors are the future. Torque curve better suited to the demands in traction applications and not the least the higher efficiency over a wider load range. Run of the mill induction motors like they are still used the majority of EVs globally, drop dramatically off in efficiency at lower loads, i.e. city driving. Another thing: In the 90' EVs were optimized for efficiency. they were not simply standard pressed steel gasoline vehicles with batteries. That was needed because the chemistry was lead-acid or maybe Ni-Cd if you was rich, So everything was about weight reduction and driveline efficiency. If that virtue is coming back. we could make 1000 km range EVs today with Li-ion batteries if we custom built EVs and not as now, are just retrofitting gasoline cars. An EV1 today with the same mass of Li-ion batteries it had Lead acid batteries, would have a range of more than 800km.
And you would be killed if a soccer mom wouldn’t see you in their SUV tank and roll you over. I know the old EVs, and in a perfect world they would be great. In today’s reality anything small than an electric UP is basically undriveable. I personally wouldn’t even go smaller than an electric golf…
@@erebostd You cannot view car safety from the individual car owners perspective. Bigger cars are not safer, they have 2.5 times the mortality and injury rate in urban areas, to all other than its occupants. So it is really not the small car owners peril, it is mismanagement of mobility planning. People perceive bigger cars as safer, and they are from their egocentric perspective, however they are worse for road safety on society level. So the soccer moms are not smart enough to choose the most appropriate vehicle, so they should be helped, by taxing vehicles by size and fuel consumption. here in Europe. you pay around 6 times more to drive a SUV in road tax and resident's parking permit over a compact. So SUVs really don't appeal to soccer moms here.
i cant help but think how useful this will be in electric motorcycles. this small motor is 400 hp and we tbh only need half of what it can deliver to make a really really fast bike. cant believe m saying this bt m excited
The main weakness is with the size of the batteries needed and the range, there's a few bikes that can do 100 ish miles but that goes right down if you have any fun which is a shame, and as battery charging still has a way to go especially for fast charging outside of teslas chargers then you'd have to be stopping all the time. but in the future it could definitely be viable.
Is it more power dense than the new Lucid Drive Unit used now in formula E for front regen only? That drive unit is 32 kg and produces 469 hp for a 14.7hp/Kg. The drive unit includes a differntial and reduction gears (AF motors probably dont' need the reduction gears.) I think this unit is probably destine for their midsize cars which are not due out until 2025 at the earliest.
As uncle ben said with great power density comes heat. IMO this is a huge challenge as a standalone EV motor but will probably be perfect as a range extender
On the surface, there is nothing new except for manufacturing processes and cooling system. And he did mentioned about controlling the air gap, which isnt new. One small company in Ashburn, VA did that long time ago and were well known with their solar car motor. Perhaps as he said, the real invention is in creating the machines and supply chain.
Scalability is what separates them? Okay cool. I was about to rewatch the video, because I thought I was missing something as nothing seemed new at all. I mean Helix UK has a motor that is 800hp, at just over 50 pounds. It is absolutely insane. I don't ever hear them talk about cooling in general on motors so i dont know enough to comment on thwt. You know there is this new blade less fan technology that is developed for computing called the AirJet. It is pretty wild, but haven't heard much in half a year. Wonder if it could be used for EVs at any point. EVs these next 10 years are going to be wild. Solid state batteries paired with axial flux. Have over 1,200 BHP in a small 40k sedan that can rear steer, and steer by wire. People want hub motors, but I don't know if that is a good idea personally except for niche cars.
@@dianapennepacker6854 , better cooling system means you can operate at higher current thus giving you higher continuous torque. I help with testing of these variable air gap axial flux motor to the limit, over 20 years ago. And we also built water jacket to replace the cooling fins behind the stator. Anyway, good to see how much progress been made. There is an issue with unsprung mass if you want to install powerful hub motors into the wheels.
@@Avicenna_76 Yeah, I know they need to be cooled. Yet I was just saying that every company has their methods of cooling. Some are doing similar things even IIRC. As for the hub motor, in engine wheels, or whatever you want to call them. Yeah exactly why I don't think they are the future like some claim with axial flux. Unsprung Mass and reliability issues aren't worth it for a while anyway. A motorcycle or scooter with a solid state structural battery in the frame, and axial hub motor would be a cool design though. That might outweigh the disadvantages, but I'm still not sure how a bike would handle with all that weight in the rear wheel. It would be cool to see. Saw a hubless bike not to long ago which was interesting. I could be wrong, but I just think it will be niche. Unlike something like steer by wire which has huge benefits if done right with little disadvantages.
Been excited for Axial motors for a long time, though it's still something illusive and just "one step from mass production". Hopefully we'll actually see it on the road in the near future. A Model 3's curb weight is 1800kg, so if you replace the dual motor you would be looking at a 5% increase in range. Pretty impressive.
So where is the break through? What makes them special? Scalability is it? Cooling? Tons of axial flux motors. We all know about the Dark Matter. Yet you guys hear of Helix UK? Apparently they have on tested that is slightly over 50 pounds, and get this... 800 BHP. Like the other guy said. Now we have 450 plus solid state batteries coming out? Vehicles are just going to be ridiculous. Pop two 800BHP onto a small RX7 like car. God I love EVs. People caught up on ICE are living in the past. Not that I dislike them, but EVs are clearly going to be superior if they aren't already. From the Cyber Truck/Lightning, to the Koensieggs Gamera. (Imagine telling someone you drive a three cylinder hybrid. They would think you're a dork. Then pull up in a Gamera.) Anyways hope they make it so everyone is making them. Axial Flux seem superior unless I'm missing something.
Have you considered the idea of turning the solid copper stator conductors into tubes, and pumping cooling air through the copper coils? I think it could be a very efficient way of removing heat directly from inside the windings.
Air would be very ineffective as coolant. A water-glycol mixture would be very effective, but not feasible in contact with high voltage. Oil is the solution, but the passage though a winding would be so long and narrow that it would not be practical.
Considering what they've gone through in the design process, I'm quite sure they thought of that already. Sadly, whatever you think might be a game changing idea on anything has already been thought of. It's hard coming up with new ideas.
People disagree that EV tech is still in an experimental phase, untill battery technology and electrical power grids are improved, it's still just experimental and has a very long way to go.
It'll be interesting to see which technological approach is more durable over time, YASA's axial flux or Elaphe's radial flux. Feels like we're experiencing something akin to the DC vs. AC standard wars 😅
Impressive to see its possible to get this principle to spin fast but would be interesting to see numbers of the possible rpm ranges. Since this is a task with radial machines as well.
CSIRO autralia designed an axial flux motor with efficiency of 98%, using litz wire and halbach array for magnets also helped a bit, some car fan motors have been using axial flux motors for a very long time. Windings look standard axial flux type, previously they were set in resin for lightweight. Not sure what is so new ?
During regen does the motor act as a generator, or is there a separate generating component? If this motor can serve as a compact efficient generator, why not develop it for wind power generation to increase efficiency?
I am not the engineer, however the answer to your question is Yes. All 3 phase EV electric motors work both ways, the regen is derived in the Drive controller by frequency, the EV pedal commands a frequency, the controller matches it , when the pedal is "ahead" the controller pulls more current to get the motor to match the requested speed. When the EV pedal is released, "Behind" the speed of the motor, it tries to slow the car by REGEN until they match frequency. Really a simple design.
@@HandyDan that's not how the control logic works - for one thing pedal position does not correlate to target speed - but yes... motors act as generators when desired.
Yup the overall statement about Regen is correct, it isn't a matter of the motor but other components to support regen. Infsofar as control is concerned the pedal input is read as a certain percentage of total pedal depression and depending on the mode/settings of the cars computer it will control the power flow from the batteries to motors through an inverter or speed controller (basically opening and closing gates to let current flow from the battery through the coils in the motor more or less quickly), more pedal press equates to more torque/acceleration, when let off the pedal the computer again can be configured to use the motors as generators and effectively recharge the batteries off the Kinect energy (slowing down the car, now the coils are being used to "pump" a charge/boost converter to pull the battery voltage/charge up). It might be more or less efficient using one electric motor design or another but I think they all share the property of being used either to drive a thing or when driven to output power since moving a wire through a magnetic field (or vice versa) is all that's needed. Typically cars use a CANbus for sending control signals around, but other communication protocols are probably involved in most of the ev (or ice) throttle control.
@@brianb-p6586 I am not here to start an argument, but have you ever driven an EV? The pedal position is 99% exactly the vehicle speed. Unless traversing a very steep hill. Then it takes more amps from the battery to try to match up again.
@HandyDan yes, I have driven an EV, and just as in an ICE vehicle the pedal position corresponds to power, not to speed. With cruise control not engaged, hold the pedal halfway down on level ground: the vehicle speeds up until it reaches the speed that needs that much power. Now drive up a hill with the same constant pedal position: it slows down because some of the power goes to raising the vehicle up the hill. Then contine over the top and go downhill, still with same pedal position: it speeds up, to faster than it was going on flat ground with the same pedal position. Pedal position is not a speed input.
People don't be fooled by this axial flux motors have alot of torque but they basically max out at 6-8k rpm unlike a radial flux motor that can be capable of going up to 20k rpm
@@JorenMathews it all ends up to the gearbox high gear ration will end you being pretty slow lower gear ration would end you going pretty fast and that's where 20k rpm ends up and if you add more gears you're just loosing efficiency
@@lhgt1324 You don't need a motor to spin that fast at all, a gearbox will instantly fix it and even if the motor is going quite slow at this stage it won't be too bad. Plus they always have 2 gearboxes if needed, 1 to spin the gears faster and another for reduction.
Robustness of large diameter seals, keeping axially mounted magnets in place under rotational and shock loads, managing air gap under dynamic loads, mitigating heat, Materials/weight/structural trade-offs, …
"Further and faster than current..." but they didn't mention durability. As technology marches on it always seems to have a decreased life span and no possibility of repair. Just run it until it fails, and then replace it is the kind of thinking that has humanity in the precarious position we are in today.
Making sophisticated technology readily repairable adds considerable cost. In the old days, everything was repairable because the means of manufacture were crude. Things HAD to be made in more discrete parts. I remember watching my dad rewind an electric motor for our washing machine. It took him 9 hours. Today’s manufacturing winds coils on electric motors in seconds, with vastly higher precision and less likelihood of getting a crack in the varnish that renders the motor inoperable. In that sense, today we are faced with the conundrum of making it repairable means the device Costs more, weighs more, is Less efficient, and MORE prone to breaking in a way that needs repair. ( Easily repaired machinery from the old days was also more frequently in need of repair. Triple A was formed because a 1930’s car trying to get over the grapevine in Southern California had 15% chance of overheating or otherwise breaking down. Today, we routinely expect cars to go 100,000 miles without requiring a single repair. ) What is crucial is to not build things that are not serviceable, that end up in landfill. That is, a broken axial flux motor might well be far less costly to simply replace, than repair. But we should specify that the broken motor be returned to the manufacturer where it can be broken down and it parts recycled or re-used. Copper and steel can be re-melted and made into new parts.
For years we had gas engines that were lucky to use 25% of the energy to turn their wheels. Electric cars are about 97% efficient but many engineers are trying hard to utilize the remaining 3%. Ironic.
The axial flux motor/generator tech has been round for a while. Hugh Piggott wind and hydro. the big jump is as stated, going to commercial quantities. In wheel is exciting.
Does anybody knows who was the pioneer of the motors of such type? I remember having a low res photo of a long haired guy who looked like a crazy scientist, and I was sure he had something to do with axial flux motors
There are two definitions for Free Energy. By getting something for nothing, impossible. And by cost analysis. Troy Reed invented a Free Energy device and documented the journey from a 10' monstrosity to the size of a small commercial refrigerator motor and put it in a small economy car. It runs forever. You'd plug it in to charge the Grid, not the car. That's just one Free Energy device being stifled. Dennis Lee is another name you should look into. My hopes are that this is a whole lot better and they become mainstream. Then someone will try to beat them until Free Energy is the only way to be better.
9:05 or put 4 of them and have vectorial thrust to make better the curve. The outside wheels go faster and the inside go slower so the curve can be made faster.
"2.1 gigawatts great scott", flux capacitor in electric form back to future without fusion energy. great work excited to see this in automotive engineering world
Yet fusionnreactir combo would be serious energy boostage plus solar wind aka e-hybrid zero emissions grid independent miracle + 65+ more energy in the grid then relied to fleets of vehicles, etc
the more that is explored the more humanity finds that the things that already existed are happening again this time without loss. innovate as its presence the future.
No. The Lynch motor is a brush-commutated design, and has a specific winding pattern using formed bar "hairpins". Both the Lynch and YASA designs are axial-flux, but there were axial-flux motors before either of them.
Why? How is this different from other Axil Flux motors? I'm watching, and lost. Just sounds like marketing. There is Dark Matter from Koenigsegg. There is Helix Motor that is 52 pounds and get this... 800 HP! Not hating. I'm just wondering where the breakthroughs are. Maybe it is the cooling, and scalability. He did talk about scaling. Which is important. Can't wait to see more Axial Flux on a small affordable sports car. Add two for AWD, and pop them in a Miata with the new 450-550 Kw/KG batteries. Going to have ridiculously quick 30k sedans in the next ten-years . I love electric cars.
How do you address the need for rare earth elements such as neodymium magnet? It would increase the cost of the car by a certain factor. Electric car manufacturer such as Tesla does not use rare earth material in their motor, which reduce their vehicles' price.
I already got an idea for an axial flux motor 7 years ago for drones. 30% more power density for the same volume. of course, the company in china didn't know what I was talking about then.
So what is it's power to weight ratio compared to Konigsberg's Quark? Which is 30Kg to 300HP! That's a 10:1 ratio. What is it's efficiency in input to output? 99% or better? is the rotor tubular so it can accept a high speed low torque differential inside it?
Yes, he was ahead of all other journalists and visited Tim in his first lab well over a decade ago - you can find it way way back in the videos of the Fully Charged Show.
Yeah, if prices are competitive, having many builders compete in a fair market balanced by demand and offer, meaning none of that copyright and patents crap that is used today for monopolizing the markets.
@@MovieViking thanks for clarifying that for me so what this motor will do is allow me to beat people at the traffic lights? But it won’t necessarily give me greater range?
YASA, create 3-pin HV round connector and cable with shared shield. Stop using three single phase inlets - reduce weight, complexity, part count, cabling.
A single cable would not be flexible enough for practical application, due to the diameter. Single connectors are routinely used at the ends of the three-cable set.
Aaah I was wondering why an electric motor engineer would be oblivious to the ongoing revolution and not credit Tesla. The last minute explains it all.
If they could make it 10 times smaller then a 48hp motor would be perfect for a hub motor, I'm picturing a Citroën DS with four of these, one in each wheel, with the battery in the engine bay ..
What seems to be skipped over is the main reason EV manufacturers use radial motors, and that is energy efficiency. At the same time radial motor design hasn't been standing still and more recent hybrid radial motors as used by Tesla etc are extremely efficient and have dropped in weight as a result.
They all use it because it hit an engineering sweetspot simple stupid to make, reliable and yet efficient. Any forward step like axial flux motors have manufacturing problems - keeping airgap is hard and cooling is hard too
It was very good to watch but the repeatedly paterned music was awful to stand on . I couldn't watch till end unfortunately. I would be grateful to be unswered if possible, who was responsible for that music on the background ? The producer of that movie or google youtube staff automatically makes it. This is happening in all youtube videos that type also not listenable. Regards. Cengiz
![[28] Scary Faster: The Future of Windows on Snapdragon - Gerard Williams, Qualcomm](/img/n.gif)
In the mid-50s my dad(a Biophysicist) said that Electric cars are our future and necessary to our future. We built and electric gokart using a starter motor from a Packard V12. He would have been 100 years old this year and would have loved to see where we are now headed, though, likely, would have complained that it has taken too long.
He was right on both counts. ✊
certainly the future. modern batteries are the main problem. lithium, cobalt etc need to go. we need to use more sustainable materials even if that means less efficiency. also consider that if everyone is driving electric cars that's going to tax the power grid to a point it can't handle. we need to 100x electric power production.
But sadly electric car is not our future 😢
Tim Woolfer's research has probably led to a wonderful opportunities, he has waited in patience whilst constantly fixing concerning issues antd constanly working hard on improvising his topology is quite admirable. His patience is just amazing. Recently i have seen Christopher Koinseg building a quite similar motor topology but he says its a raxial flux motor. Which is very similar to YASA. But Yasa is the future of EVs. A big applause to TIM and Yasa's association with AMG is not such an easy achievement
Yes, the Koenigsegg "raxial" motor is clearly a small variation on the YASA design.
It is not his invention.
磁场方向并不重要，重要的是基础研究，基础原理最重要。传统电机的电磁铁磁饱和设计和计算方法有缺陷的。如果没有搞清楚基础结构，就设计电机，一定会有缺陷。
欧洲人喜欢公开自己的研究，中国人喜欢保密。文化有差异。
@@goldliongoldlion5336 CC Chan, in his doctoral thesis described YASA topology. The thesis was written in the 1970s I believe.
Very cool, not many PhD dissertations ever make it out of the lab, much less into mass production.
Manyy PhD dissertations are excessively reliant on mathematical theory and formulas. I wonder how many of them would even work outside of a lab...
I allow myself to warmly greet,
For over more than ten years I've been developing a model of an “Axial Flux Coaxial Magnetic Generator Motor”, which I consider has especial features:
Summarizing its main strengths:
1. Doesn't have, neither needs the stator.
2. The coaxial system provides two (02) angular moments, to the kinetic energy.
3. Merges the “power” of the moment reactive torsion (-Mt), with the original force that produces it.
4. Neutralize the (-Mt) moment reactive torsion.
5. Replace part of the electrical energy it consumes.
6. The transmission system is included.
7. Doesn't occupy useful space.
8. Doesn't represent extra weight for the damping system.
9. Develop a high torque in a low energy consumption (DC).
10. Assist the vehicle stability.
11. Can work in rough conditions, even underwater.
12. Its dimensions are directly proportional to its power, without consuming high currents at the moment of breaking the inertia.
If any interest exists over the product with the characteristics mentioned, I manifest my total will to share the Theoretical Framework, as one of my main objectives is to develop a prototype of this product and use all my efforts into a good end.
Sir do you have any social media account I can contact you on, I'm making an axial flux motor too and desperate help of how I make the wind, and place the magnet, also has no idea how to cool it, my goals aren't that high and innovative, I want to make a motor as powerful and reliable as yasa motor and that's it basically, please reply please
@@karaabdelkader1273 youtube.com/@OverbuiltByHenry?si=BJvKmMpBKbsCg4Rx
wtf
@@gioc610 Sometimes I also think it's not true.
... let's keep our fingers crossed MB will make it far enough into the future . . . to have a future !
🖖🏻 from 🇩🇪
Amazing technology! Any plans to open them to the public as an off the shelf product? Democratising the EV revolution?
Nobody has ever, as the junkyard more than saturates that market already...
Democratising is a terrible word choice.
Many YASA motors are available on the open market. Perhaps they are all used units from test programs, but they're out there.
would love to have a customer owned redistribution network for electric powertrains. Reasonably priced not $50k for a used tesla powertrain.
I don't know now, but before Mercedes Benz acquired them, there was the possibility to purchase that motor and also the gearbox if you wanted. In my Uni we were interested in getting one for the Formula SAE. They really deserve the spot light. I guess is also cheaper than last time I asked for the price.
If we look at vehicles with a maximum acceleration of 5m/s.s and 3.5m/s.s (fast and normal ICE vehicle acceleration), and assume torque vectoring on all four wheels, we could have two drive units, each with two small axial flux motors. Each motor would be packaged with a planetary gear system and an inboard brake and half shaft all axially aligned. The casing could include rack and pinion steering for both front and rear units - can use identical units front and rear. Each front/rear unit would need inverters for each motor, the oil pump motor, steering motor. There would be an oil/coolant heat exchanger. The inputs to the drive unit would be communication from vehicle controls (all human controls entered via an aircraft style side-stick (steering, brake acceleration), low and high voltage power so the drive unit will stay awake if DC power cut and coolant. The outputs are data to the vehicle controller/sidestick, two half shafts and two steering arms. In going to a 'giga-casting' the casting is not strong enough to resist fatigue loading from a MacPherson strut. The suspension should be double wishbones and horizontal suspension like F1 and other high performance vehicles. This means the giga-casting only face accident loading such as Short Overlap Test at their extremities. The wheels could be flush to the tyre on the inside and have fully enclosed wheel covers on the outer. Suspension components can be shaped for lowest drag life F1. The underfloor can be shaped for best aerodynamics.
Kudos for hanging on all this time. It must have been a tough one finding investors 20 years ago while the market was inexistant.
As a doc producer, this is very well done. Hard to tell if Mercedes is the title sponsor, it appears so, but nothing wrong with that. Great video.
hi by design does the motor allow the use of negligible or zero rare earth metals then? also are the KW/Torque numbers advertised peak or continous?
You do know that rare earth is a misnomer? The only reason 'rare earth' metals are a 'problem' is China and Russia has a lot of them it is not there rareness.
To be clear, they said "working with Mercedes," however Mercedes acquired YASA motors over a year ago. I doubt they acquired them to sell the motors to competitors. No, they probably see it as a competitive advantage that they'd like to keep to themselves. Wonder what the real world impact is - the EQS 580 4MATIC that Munro & Associates looked at, seemed like it had a standard radial motor.
I dunno, you could probably make a silly amount of money by licencing the motor to other manufacturers rather than keeping it to yourself and making your competitors research and develop their own
@@TheBoringInvestorMan exactly. Buying them assures your own supply. There's already an aerospace spinout from YASA whose job it is to put their motors into electric aircraft.
Mercedes makes a shitload of money licensing car-related technology already. If they don't license it, there are higher chances of competitors coming up with something similar yet different enough to get around any legal claim and get fucked side-ways anyway.
Most of Mercedes' inventions are common for all.
I really like the shortened length without an increase in diameter because of the new ways that the motor/s can be positioned.
seems like this would be great for hub motors because of the weight and shape :)
I drive a 2002 EV a Fiat elettra. Still going strong on its 3'rd set of batteries. I had my first EV in 1991. They have been around forever if you wanted to buy them, you could in Europe. Axial flux motors are the future. Torque curve better suited to the demands in traction applications and not the least the higher efficiency over a wider load range. Run of the mill induction motors like they are still used the majority of EVs globally, drop dramatically off in efficiency at lower loads, i.e. city driving. Another thing: In the 90' EVs were optimized for efficiency. they were not simply standard pressed steel gasoline vehicles with batteries. That was needed because the chemistry was lead-acid or maybe Ni-Cd if you was rich, So everything was about weight reduction and driveline efficiency. If that virtue is coming back. we could make 1000 km range EVs today with Li-ion batteries if we custom built EVs and not as now, are just retrofitting gasoline cars. An EV1 today with the same mass of Li-ion batteries it had Lead acid batteries, would have a range of more than 800km.
And you would be killed if a soccer mom wouldn’t see you in their SUV tank and roll you over. I know the old EVs, and in a perfect world they would be great. In today’s reality anything small than an electric UP is basically undriveable. I personally wouldn’t even go smaller than an electric golf…
@@erebostd You cannot view car safety from the individual car owners perspective. Bigger cars are not safer, they have 2.5 times the mortality and injury rate in urban areas, to all other than its occupants. So it is really not the small car owners peril, it is mismanagement of mobility planning. People perceive bigger cars as safer, and they are from their egocentric perspective, however they are worse for road safety on society level. So the soccer moms are not smart enough to choose the most appropriate vehicle, so they should be helped, by taxing vehicles by size and fuel consumption. here in Europe. you pay around 6 times more to drive a SUV in road tax and resident's parking permit over a compact. So SUVs really don't appeal to soccer moms here.
这个电机比现在的电机效率提高很多。这是一个优秀的工程师。
我也研究电机，我研究磁饱和问题。磁饱和问题解决了，可以降低20%的耗电。
你说得对，很多人不明白传统设计会产生磁力冲突；这是由于加热造成能量损失的主要原因
@@juliomartinez4133 by 25% musk did it in his last update to tesla motor.
i cant help but think how useful this will be in electric motorcycles. this small motor is 400 hp and we tbh only need half of what it can deliver to make a really really fast bike. cant believe m saying this bt m excited
The main weakness is with the size of the batteries needed and the range, there's a few bikes that can do 100 ish miles but that goes right down if you have any fun which is a shame, and as battery charging still has a way to go especially for fast charging outside of teslas chargers then you'd have to be stopping all the time. but in the future it could definitely be viable.
I would like to see these in the E-Mtn. bikes.
Is it more power dense than the new Lucid Drive Unit used now in formula E for front regen only? That drive unit is 32 kg and produces 469 hp for a 14.7hp/Kg. The drive unit includes a differntial and reduction gears (AF motors probably dont' need the reduction gears.) I think this unit is probably destine for their midsize cars which are not due out until 2025 at the earliest.
Axial flux motors do need the reduction gears.
As uncle ben said with great power density comes heat.
IMO this is a huge challenge as a standalone EV motor but will probably be perfect as a range extender
Rivian's gears are roughly one fifth of Tesla's, i.e. saving weight at the cost of realibility...
On the surface, there is nothing new except for manufacturing processes and cooling system. And he did mentioned about controlling the air gap, which isnt new. One small company in Ashburn, VA did that long time ago and were well known with their solar car motor. Perhaps as he said, the real invention is in creating the machines and supply chain.
Scalability is what separates them? Okay cool. I was about to rewatch the video, because I thought I was missing something as nothing seemed new at all.
I mean Helix UK has a motor that is 800hp, at just over 50 pounds. It is absolutely insane.
I don't ever hear them talk about cooling in general on motors so i dont know enough to comment on thwt.
You know there is this new blade less fan technology that is developed for computing called the AirJet. It is pretty wild, but haven't heard much in half a year. Wonder if it could be used for EVs at any point.
EVs these next 10 years are going to be wild. Solid state batteries paired with axial flux. Have over 1,200 BHP in a small 40k sedan that can rear steer, and steer by wire. People want hub motors, but I don't know if that is a good idea personally except for niche cars.
@@dianapennepacker6854 , better cooling system means you can operate at higher current thus giving you higher continuous torque. I help with testing of these variable air gap axial flux motor to the limit, over 20 years ago. And we also built water jacket to replace the cooling fins behind the stator. Anyway, good to see how much progress been made.
There is an issue with unsprung mass if you want to install powerful hub motors into the wheels.
@@Avicenna_76 Yeah, I know they need to be cooled. Yet I was just saying that every company has their methods of cooling. Some are doing similar things even IIRC.
As for the hub motor, in engine wheels, or whatever you want to call them. Yeah exactly why I don't think they are the future like some claim with axial flux. Unsprung Mass and reliability issues aren't worth it for a while anyway.
A motorcycle or scooter with a solid state structural battery in the frame, and axial hub motor would be a cool design though. That might outweigh the disadvantages, but I'm still not sure how a bike would handle with all that weight in the rear wheel. It would be cool to see. Saw a hubless bike not to long ago which was interesting.
I could be wrong, but I just think it will be niche. Unlike something like steer by wire which has huge benefits if done right with little disadvantages.
Been excited for Axial motors for a long time, though it's still something illusive and just "one step from mass production". Hopefully we'll actually see it on the road in the near future.
A Model 3's curb weight is 1800kg, so if you replace the dual motor you would be looking at a 5% increase in range. Pretty impressive.
plus solid state batteries....we have come a long way!
So where is the break through? What makes them special? Scalability is it? Cooling?
Tons of axial flux motors. We all know about the Dark Matter.
Yet you guys hear of Helix UK? Apparently they have on tested that is slightly over 50 pounds, and get this... 800 BHP.
Like the other guy said. Now we have 450 plus solid state batteries coming out? Vehicles are just going to be ridiculous.
Pop two 800BHP onto a small RX7 like car.
God I love EVs. People caught up on ICE are living in the past. Not that I dislike them, but EVs are clearly going to be superior if they aren't already. From the Cyber Truck/Lightning, to the Koensieggs Gamera. (Imagine telling someone you drive a three cylinder hybrid. They would think you're a dork. Then pull up in a Gamera.)
Anyways hope they make it so everyone is making them. Axial Flux seem superior unless I'm missing something.
"A Model 3's curb weight is 1800kg, so if you replace the dual motor you would be looking at a 5% increase in range. "
Non-sequitur
Have you considered the idea of turning the solid copper stator conductors into tubes, and pumping cooling air through the copper coils? I think it could be a very efficient way of removing heat directly from inside the windings.
Air would be very ineffective as coolant. A water-glycol mixture would be very effective, but not feasible in contact with high voltage. Oil is the solution, but the passage though a winding would be so long and narrow that it would not be practical.
you won't be able to pack as many turns, and turns are what's important for the strength of the magnetic field, which translates to torque
The field strength depons on ampere turns.
So less turns but more amps.@@nikbivation
Considering what they've gone through in the design process, I'm quite sure they thought of that already. Sadly, whatever you think might be a game changing idea on anything has already been thought of. It's hard coming up with new ideas.
The field strength of a coil is simply the product of current and turns, so turns are just as important as current.@@kenrowe167
People disagree that EV tech is still in an experimental phase, untill battery technology and electrical power grids are improved, it's still just experimental and has a very long way to go.
It'll be interesting to see which technological approach is more durable over time, YASA's axial flux or Elaphe's radial flux. Feels like we're experiencing something akin to the DC vs. AC standard wars 😅
Nah, something new has happened. Now we have RAXIAL flux motors which have somehow combined the best of both.
Impressive to see its possible to get this principle to spin fast but would be interesting to see numbers of the possible rpm ranges. Since this is a task with radial machines as well.
On their site they say up to 8000 rpm. Car tires typically spin well under than 1000 rpm on the highway. 🤓
@@serversurfer6169make your calc again. You need till 16k rpm with a dif ratio of 9.
@@patrascudanielionut2639 Why would you run such a high ratio with an electric motor? 🤔
Neat story. Please remove the distracting unnecessary music.
As a documentary producer the music plays a role as part of the story. I disagree. Some may find it distracting. Others do not.
CSIRO autralia designed an axial flux motor with efficiency of 98%, using litz wire and halbach array for magnets also helped a bit, some car fan motors have been using axial flux motors for a very long time.
Windings look standard axial flux type, previously they were set in resin for lightweight.
Not sure what is so new ?
During regen does the motor act as a generator, or is there a separate generating component? If this motor can serve as a compact efficient generator, why not develop it for wind power generation to increase efficiency?
I am not the engineer, however the answer to your question is Yes.
All 3 phase EV electric motors work both ways, the regen is derived in the Drive controller by frequency, the EV pedal commands a frequency, the controller matches it , when the pedal is "ahead" the controller pulls more current to get the motor to match the requested speed.
When the EV pedal is released, "Behind" the speed of the motor, it tries to slow the car by REGEN until they match frequency. Really a simple design.
@@HandyDan that's not how the control logic works - for one thing pedal position does not correlate to target speed - but yes... motors act as generators when desired.
Yup the overall statement about Regen is correct, it isn't a matter of the motor but other components to support regen.
Infsofar as control is concerned the pedal input is read as a certain percentage of total pedal depression and depending on the mode/settings of the cars computer it will control the power flow from the batteries to motors through an inverter or speed controller (basically opening and closing gates to let current flow from the battery through the coils in the motor more or less quickly), more pedal press equates to more torque/acceleration, when let off the pedal the computer again can be configured to use the motors as generators and effectively recharge the batteries off the Kinect energy (slowing down the car, now the coils are being used to "pump" a charge/boost converter to pull the battery voltage/charge up). It might be more or less efficient using one electric motor design or another but I think they all share the property of being used either to drive a thing or when driven to output power since moving a wire through a magnetic field (or vice versa) is all that's needed.
Typically cars use a CANbus for sending control signals around, but other communication protocols are probably involved in most of the ev (or ice) throttle control.
@@brianb-p6586 I am not here to start an argument, but have you ever driven an EV?
The pedal position is 99% exactly the vehicle speed. Unless traversing a very steep hill. Then it takes more amps from the battery to try to match up again.
@HandyDan yes, I have driven an EV, and just as in an ICE vehicle the pedal position corresponds to power, not to speed.
With cruise control not engaged, hold the pedal halfway down on level ground: the vehicle speeds up until it reaches the speed that needs that much power. Now drive up a hill with the same constant pedal position: it slows down because some of the power goes to raising the vehicle up the hill. Then contine over the top and go downhill, still with same pedal position: it speeds up, to faster than it was going on flat ground with the same pedal position.
Pedal position is not a speed input.
awesome. all the best wishes for success for YASA. just don't let China steal it.
Very good concepts. The weight loss alone is worth the investment and investigation.
People don't be fooled by this axial flux motors have alot of torque but they basically max out at 6-8k rpm unlike a radial flux motor that can be capable of going up to 20k rpm
Why do you think going to 20k RPM is valuable for a car?
@@JorenMathews it all ends up to the gearbox high gear ration will end you being pretty slow lower gear ration would end you going pretty fast and that's where 20k rpm ends up and if you add more gears you're just loosing efficiency
@@lhgt1324 You don't need a motor to spin that fast at all, a gearbox will instantly fix it and even if the motor is going quite slow at this stage it won't be too bad. Plus they always have 2 gearboxes if needed, 1 to spin the gears faster and another for reduction.
I think we can see axial flux motors with 20000+ rpm..
20k for motor is not true. . Unlike ice they do need that.
Robustness of large diameter seals, keeping axially mounted magnets in place under rotational and shock loads, managing air gap under dynamic loads, mitigating heat, Materials/weight/structural trade-offs, …
The world EV's just got the boost to keep costs down and in turn become the modern model T.
I know how Tim solved the problem. he rated the patent office. with approval from our leaders obviously
This is so impressive. How about generators, are you doing anything in that line?
Hmm, similar principle usedin Finland's Verge motorcycle, amazing torque specs
"Further and faster than current..." but they didn't mention durability. As technology marches on it always seems to have a decreased life span and no possibility of repair. Just run it until it fails, and then replace it is the kind of thinking that has humanity in the precarious position we are in today.
Single use, non serviceable. But whats to service?
Making sophisticated technology readily repairable adds considerable cost. In the old days, everything was repairable because the means of manufacture were crude. Things HAD to be made in more discrete parts. I remember watching my dad rewind an electric motor for our washing machine. It took him 9 hours. Today’s manufacturing winds coils on electric motors in seconds, with vastly higher precision and less likelihood of getting a crack in the varnish that renders the motor inoperable. In that sense, today we are faced with the conundrum of making it repairable means the device Costs more, weighs more, is Less efficient, and MORE prone to breaking in a way that needs repair. ( Easily repaired machinery from the old days was also more frequently in need of repair. Triple A was formed because a 1930’s car trying to get over the grapevine in Southern California had 15% chance of overheating or otherwise breaking down. Today, we routinely expect cars to go 100,000 miles without requiring a single repair. )
What is crucial is to not build things that are not serviceable, that end up in landfill. That is, a broken axial flux motor might well be far less costly to simply replace, than repair. But we should specify that the broken motor be returned to the manufacturer where it can be broken down and it parts recycled or re-used. Copper and steel can be re-melted and made into new parts.
@@mcspikesky the bearings and the windings, if they should burn or short out over time..
Where can I read his PhD?
Exiting, nice vid.
how does it stack up against Saabs hub motors?
Do these allow regenerative breaking
For years we had gas engines that were lucky to use 25% of the energy to turn their wheels. Electric cars are about 97% efficient but many engineers are trying hard to utilize the remaining 3%. Ironic.
The axial flux motor/generator tech has been round for a while. Hugh Piggott wind and hydro. the big jump is as stated, going to commercial quantities. In wheel is exciting.
sir i am from pakistan i am interested in this motor Thank you very much for making a video in detail
This is really awesome engineering, if we could attach this to a small nuclear battery we wouldn't need to visit a charging station for years.
Does anybody knows who was the pioneer of the motors of such type? I remember having a low res photo of a long haired guy who looked like a crazy scientist, and I was sure he had something to do with axial flux motors
Nicola Tesla himself had a similar design
There are two definitions for Free Energy. By getting something for nothing, impossible. And by cost analysis.
Troy Reed invented a Free Energy device and documented the journey from a 10' monstrosity to the size of a small commercial refrigerator motor and put it in a small economy car. It runs forever. You'd plug it in to charge the Grid, not the car.
That's just one Free Energy device being stifled.
Dennis Lee is another name you should look into.
My hopes are that this is a whole lot better and they become mainstream. Then someone will try to beat them until Free Energy is the only way to be better.
9:05 or put 4 of them and have vectorial thrust to make better the curve. The outside wheels go faster and the inside go slower so the curve can be made faster.
You did great
"2.1 gigawatts great scott", flux capacitor in electric form back to future without fusion energy. great work excited to see this in automotive engineering world
Yet fusionnreactir combo would be serious energy boostage plus solar wind aka e-hybrid zero emissions grid independent miracle + 65+ more energy in the grid then relied to fleets of vehicles, etc
the more that is explored the more humanity finds that the things that already existed are happening again this time without loss. innovate as its presence the future.
It's a Cedric lynch motor?
No. The Lynch motor is a brush-commutated design, and has a specific winding pattern using formed bar "hairpins". Both the Lynch and YASA designs are axial-flux, but there were axial-flux motors before either of them.
Really exciting technology. Let's hope they make it to high volume mass production for MB.
It is in work and I'm proud to be part of it
Time should feature him.
Why? How is this different from other Axil Flux motors? I'm watching, and lost. Just sounds like marketing.
There is Dark Matter from Koenigsegg. There is Helix Motor that is 52 pounds and get this... 800 HP!
Not hating. I'm just wondering where the breakthroughs are. Maybe it is the cooling, and scalability. He did talk about scaling. Which is important.
Can't wait to see more Axial Flux on a small affordable sports car. Add two for AWD, and pop them in a Miata with the new 450-550 Kw/KG batteries.
Going to have ridiculously quick 30k sedans in the next ten-years . I love electric cars.
How do you address the need for rare earth elements such as neodymium magnet? It would increase the cost of the car by a certain factor. Electric car manufacturer such as Tesla does not use rare earth material in their motor, which reduce their vehicles' price.
This man is slightly too attractive for me to trust him to be smart enough to make this. What's the catch?
Not exactly Peter Beck is he?
Thanks Great Video
This would be perfect to fit in my DS5 matched to my EAT6 Speed gearbox, and little space on the back Seat for a 11kwh Solid state battery.
Are we doing this kind of development for high speed rail?
Annoying background music makes it difficult to hear the dialogue
Will these be licensed to other car companies?
Is it only available to Mercedes?
since 1980 we have had patents on these developments, Millennial Research a USA technology, company,,,
sad out patents are not
enforced.
I already got an idea for an axial flux motor 7 years ago for drones. 30% more power density for the same volume. of course, the company in china didn't know what I was talking about then.
So what is it's power to weight ratio compared to Konigsberg's Quark? Which is 30Kg to 300HP! That's a 10:1 ratio. What is it's efficiency in input to output? 99% or better? is the rotor tubular so it can accept a high speed low torque differential inside it?
Koenigseggs Quark is a variant of the Yasa design.
3:43 what was that interview. Is that Robert Llewelyn?
Yes, he was ahead of all other journalists and visited Tim in his first lab well over a decade ago - you can find it way way back in the videos of the Fully Charged Show.
sweet talk talking around...
Very interesting topic, but why the irritating tinkling music?
Most advanced ax motors by far
and thank you Michael Faraday!
please make front hub motor for motorcycle with this tech. i wanna see this beat the current motorcycle acceleration record. :D
Oh and cool and here it is also working on a generator in what some are considering as reverse.
Good… but the music. E.g. around 2:39.
Having non-disturbing background noise (just mix the volume down) would be a step of #accessibility.
This is what I have invisioned to put behind my hydro-genie
Neat!
Yeah, if prices are competitive, having many builders compete in a fair market balanced by demand and offer, meaning none of that copyright and patents crap that is used today for monopolizing the markets.
How does an electric motor have density? That’s what batteries have. Maybe they’re talking about power to weight
Divide the torque with the volume the engines takes up and you get the torque density. Not that difficult 😂
@@MovieViking thanks for clarifying that for me so what this motor will do is allow me to beat people at the traffic lights? But it won’t necessarily give me greater range?
YASA, create 3-pin HV round connector and cable with shared shield. Stop using three single phase inlets - reduce weight, complexity, part count, cabling.
A single cable would not be flexible enough for practical application, due to the diameter. Single connectors are routinely used at the ends of the three-cable set.
Aaah I was wondering why an electric motor engineer would be oblivious to the ongoing revolution and not credit Tesla. The last minute explains it all.
Utterly FAB!
I wish Nıssan would work with you and make an ultimate e-power car
I am still not sold on axial flux, I am more akin to the trusted and proven technology of the Turbo Encabulator.
Needs a lapel mic for audio.
Coaxial (with the axle) motor packaging, as mentioned @8:58, can be beneficial... but it is commonly done with radial-flux motors.
If they could make it 10 times smaller then a 48hp motor would be perfect for a hub motor, I'm picturing a Citroën DS with four of these, one in each wheel, with the battery in the engine bay ..
01:00 discontinued and taken away from the owners
An engineer out there will correct this?
-What’s the power to weight threshold, for EVs?
That looks remarkably similar to the electric motor in my LG washing machine lol
Amazing
good product for aerospace projects as well
Look up Evolito - a spin-off from YASA
What seems to be skipped over is the main reason EV manufacturers use radial motors, and that is energy efficiency. At the same time radial motor design hasn't been standing still and more recent hybrid radial motors as used by Tesla etc are extremely efficient and have dropped in weight as a result.
They all use it because it hit an engineering sweetspot simple stupid to make, reliable and yet efficient.
Any forward step like axial flux motors have manufacturing problems - keeping airgap is hard and cooling is hard too
its a Pity i could not following the covesation andexplication due the unecesary music at the background
Anyone can create anything in the lab. The real deal is the mass production with comparable costs.
YASA is way beyond the lab - their motors have been in regular production for years.
How is it compared to Tesla's?
I wonder why McLaren was not mentioned as one of their (former?) customers.
Don't these motors have a revolution issue - as in they don't spin very fast...? Nice size. Nice torque. Nice weight... but not fast....
This is cool, the design is amazing and the specs stands out.
Love these motors, but 4x the torque density is disingenuous at best.
No, half the volume, twice the torque = 4 times the density
Move faster 2023 now 😀😀😀👌
Bicycle motors!
Lucid and Rimac still use radial flux motors.
It was very good to watch but the repeatedly paterned music was awful to stand on . I couldn't watch till end unfortunately. I would be grateful to be unswered if possible, who was responsible for that music on the background ? The producer of that movie or google youtube staff automatically makes it. This is happening in all youtube videos that type also not listenable. Regards. Cengiz