Is it Possible to 3D Print WORKING AXIAL COMPRESSOR? - (Testing different blade designs)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2024
- PCBWay Your 3D & CNC One-Stop Solution: www.pcbway.com/
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3D printing an axial compressor doesn't sound like an easy task, and it is not. But in this video I tried to do it, how well it turned out, u see in the video.
I have done something similar, 3D printed 3 stage turbine: • I 3D Printed a TURBINE...
ORIGINAL LINK FOR THE MODEL: www.thingiverse.com/thing:359...
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Hey, I'm the original designer of this compressor. Very cool to see it featured! Just a couple of things: this was designed with a very low pressure ratio, high flow working condition in mind. If you restrict the outlet area or apply too much backpressure it will stall badly, as you've noticed. For your application your best bet will probably be a radial compressor, as you've already hinted. Also, you're right the coupler and legs are trash! :D If I were to redesign this, I would probably at least change the coupler to a solid TPU shaft. Very curious to see part 2 of this!
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You left out the part of telling this dude to send you a few bucks for it😂
A low pressure ratio, high CFM means it's a fan and not a compressor, and the compression of air happens in the diameter restriction downstream. While in an axial compressor the compressing happens between the fan rotor and stator blades which become progressively smaller.
@@Stoney3K the original post did say it was an axial fan
I love that, "printed in yellow to increase the performance even more". What a hoot!
Yellow was an interesting choice. I would have thought red would be the fastest.
The smoke tests actually showed everything you needed to know - in the first test, the air was being forced back out of the intake whereas the second one you got good airflow into the inlet. Therefore the first trial did not have a good pressure differential between the inlet and exhaust (probably compressor stall) but the second performed much better.
the airflow was to constricted due to the small outlet thus causing the compressor stall
compression ratio of each stage is like 1.1-1.2 its fairly easy to calculate how big the outlet should have been
Gap between rotors and stators is too big… air stalls. (RB199)
Part of your issue is the space between stator and rotor, another part is the shape of the rotor blades. They should be dished to accekkerate the air backwards. The final point is rotor diameter. Each stage should have a blade slightly smaller than the previous dependant on compressor ratio. IE if stage 1 compresses the air by 5% then stage 2 should be 5% smaller. The J79 engine had 17 compressor stages with variable stators and had a compression ratio of less than 12 to 1 and early jut engines without variable stators were as little as 3.5 to 1 off 12 stages. My recommendation is therefor to use 4 stages, reduce the gap between stator and rotor and use dished rotor blades.
yes, this + also the housing to compressor distance should be as small as possibble.
pretty sure the outlet was way too small causing compressor stall
the compression ratio of each stage for a axial compressor is 1.1-1.2, the maxium compression ratio possible would of been 1.2^2 (2 stages) or 1.44, the outlet looked like it was exspecting a pressur ratio of 2 times thus the compressor stalled due to not being able to get all the air to flow through the outlet
The blades/stator/housing should slightly rub and be lapped in.
Hey, I'm the original designer of this, and I wish I was aiming for a 10% compression ratio! :D The main goal for this project was mostly just to make a lot of noise, have it look cool and move some air through a vacuum cleaner HEPA filter. I was, in fact, so pessimistic about losses and restricted in available power that I aimed for a 1-2% compression ratio for each stage and only two stages, hence the constant diameter as I didn't expect air density to vary much and wanted to keep the CAD simple. The original nozzle had a way bigger exit area compared to the inlet that housed the filter, and this is most likely choking even without the ballon or glove
Also, balance the rotors. It sounds like right now there is a lot of vibration which is making the design very inefficient and susceptible to damage, running the risk of the rotor rubbing against the outer housing.
If you had painted the rotors red to maximize performance, and picked a yellow balloon which are the weakest, it would've worked.
Balloons can be faked as a test object. Simply blow up the balloon before hand and leave the latex stretched for a while. Then deflate the balloon and use it as if it had been straight out of the package.
Brilliant work, dude! Nicely done! 😃
Looking forward to the next projects!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Oooh, very excited to see the next attempts!
This model is designed to high airflow, and low preasure. You need low flow and high preasure setup.
Really looking forward to the next video!
You painted the compressor stages yellow "to increase the performance even more," haha, nice!
Great video, thanks. Looking forward to next one.
Turbines have very high frequency vibrations. They need lots of smaller screws/bolts to hold them together rather than fewer larges ones. That's how real Jet engines work.
9:26 AYE, YELLOW GOEZ FASTAH!
Really interesting project! I'd love some day to see your take on a rotary atomizer (for creating very fine mist), those things are both expensive if bought off-the-shelf and interesting to make 3D printed
Очень впечатляюще. Пожалуйста, продолжайте.
In the next video you should test with the 3D printed parts and once everything 'is perfect then do a clear part from pcb way! Great video!!
very much power :)
There's so so much resistance in this man, I'm not surprised your coupler constantly broke
Yes, R was great the secondary issue was the overly reactive spin up speeds. The coupler may have lasted just a little bit more IF the throttling had been more gradual.
It would be cool to make a hydrid compressor, which would be an axial stage and a centrifugal impeller
I liked and subscribed. Now I want to see you take these gas turbines to their logical end conclusion
I took interest in 3D modelling and was wonder what program you use.
Great video: Now, with that said: perhaps you might want to try 3D printing some flexible filament designed gaskets to restrict air leakage that may also increase the needed air pressure that would inflate that balloon.
I’ve been looking into studying to be an A&P mechanic and recently learned about lockwire or safety wire. The bolts holding the main connection vibrated loose so fast, it would be interesting to implement it in some way for a guaranteed secure fastener and an added layer of realism
If i was this guy friend i would help him to improve his axial compressor ive got a knowledge and he got a tools.
I’d think that adding more stages in progressively decreasing sizes may help increase the compression ratio. More RPM would help, but you’re limited by the materials used. Not to mention that heat of compression will be a limiting factor for those materials, as you increase the output pressure. Take a look at stationary turbo/centrifugal compressors. They use interstage cooling to mitigate this problem. But that’s getting into apple vs oranges territory.
Interesting to see your new designs incorporating vortex dynamics. Are you familiar with the work of Viktor Schauberger?
Also, did I hear an Oompah band in the background? ;-)
Awesome.
Haha, at least you got it to blow up and POP the hand-shaped "balloons," so that's cool! Keepi'goin'!
One thing you could have tried with the turbine blades would have been a shrink fit. Basically put them in the refrigerator for a bit, then press fit them in.
I would have resin printed the coupler after it breaks for the 3rd or 4th time, try it again with 100% infill next, and finally, if all those fail I would have inserted a metal pin(nail works as well) or screw into the middle of the coupler to give it more sheer strength since the coupler had too much axial load and rotational stress to deal with at such high RPMs.
For your Clear shroud parts from PCB way and all your 3D printed parts that require metal screws to hold the 3D parts together ill suggest you use brass inserts and buy a whole kit of them and use the ones that you need in your projects.
I am suggesting a Kit so that you have a few Brass inserts of all sizes for all your different project needs. This allows you to see which brass inserts work best for your 3D project needs, allowing you to order specific brass inserts in higher Quantities that you frequently need.
Use a soldering iron to heat up the Brass inserts and let them get placed into their spots as the plastic melts into the brass inserts and secures them into your 3D project pieces even your clear 3D shroud parts can be salvaged for future use.
"I redesigned this 7 times."
Wow, you had 8 designs before finding the one that would work really well. But at least it wasn't anything like 100 or 1000, ha!
Does it feel balanced when it spins? It stops kind of quick for having bearings in it. I also wonder if it needs thrust bearings. Just my thoughts on your next build but you already got it this far! Looking good!
The shaft that broke,,,,, did you print it lieng down or standing up... ?
next time measure the pressure and wind speed, would be easier to improve the design with actual numbers to go by :) also I'm mind blown by the pcbway resin print! never thought it could be this clear
Also try smaller bearings, your fraction is obviously much too high, crousile for high speed. Should solve the battery issue as well. Im wondering if smaller turbine diameter would work better. Great job at all 👍
Regards from the radial side! 😋
You should try a tesla turbine as a centrifugal compressor. Sure it may not be as good as a bladed one but it's easier to manufacture and balance. So with DIY machining it may out perform a bladed centrifugal one just because it's easier to get higher quality.
From my experience CNCing the discs (and spacing washers) out of
Could you explain more about your compressor design technique, especially the centrifugal compressors?
And instead of using a coupler that transmits with friction, try making a wave pattern and tightening on both sides to transmit without slipping.
When you try to have multiple stages of a centrifugal compressor, you end up with so much plumbing and surface and friction. But a centrifugal compressor can have multiple outlets for a cannular combustion chamber. An axial compressor can have stages and also lets in all the air which is in its way. So you don't need a large pod. Only important for airplanes.
The cone is really necessary for it to work! 😂
Did you will add a pressure sensor next time to get some metrics?
More stages!
With Metal 3D printing becoming easier and cheaper with materials like aluminum, titanium, nickel alloys and other exotic alloys it should be possible to produce a hot (combustion) turbine with 3D printing plastic as prototyping like you're doing.
I've been thinking about this for years. Increase the fuel efficiency of small turbines and use those to make a real jet pack that has a longer flight time and for less expensive than what's available now.
3 chinese hobby jets produce enough thrust to lift a man. Only problem is they are 10k each.
I am not a licensed airdynamics designer, but I see one, imho, flaw in this turbine rotor: the blades' incident angle is the same for the primary and the secondary stage. Whereas it seems the secondary prop operates in a faster flow and hence should have a larger incident angle of the blades. At least this is obviously an area to improve, as we see comparing the first and the second rotor design.
Probably getting compressor stall over blades. Real axial flow compressors in gas turbine engines bleed only a bit of air but also have variable guide vanes to account for the different flow rates through the compressor, avoiding stall.
By stall I mean it in a aerodynamic way like an aircraft wing. If the angle of attack of the blades relative to air flow exceeds near 30º the laminar flow becomes turbulent and no more compression across stage. So in your glove example it takes a bit to get it started but once the flow starts, blades are no longer stalled and it pumps much more efficiently. The radial compressor might handle this better.
I've never had issues 3D printing perfect threads of all different sizes on my Ender 3 Pro (modified with a direct drive extruder).
Same I’ve been printing functional threads since my raised cube with acrylic frame days
Submit this to the fan showdown 😂
I'll never get tired of 3D printed compressor videos.
There's an annoying lack of DIY axial compressor videos. everything else is usually centrifugal type compressors.
There's not really much that is easy public knowledge about them. I have some books from the 70s and 80s on the subject I picked up used - but a modern book containing such subjects will run you $1k or more - and there's a lot of dark arts to it.
GE isn't publishing books to tell China and Russia how to build their jet engines.
To be honest, I would have assumed this printed part would have failed, structurally, well before achieving significant pressures - so color me impressed, here.
That's the other issue - manufacturing turbine blades is a bit of a dark art tailored to gas turbine engines. Special treatment alloys, spin casting and controlled metal grain development is what goes into commercial operation - the tools to take a chunk of 6000 series aluminum or powder and see how far you can get with it for a DIY axial compressor are rather new. As is distribution of CAD tools to model them and/or use CFD to assess the design.
🔥
Would this model benefit from a torque box?
I've not read all the comments.
But.
The leading question I would have is 1. assuming you build the side walls closer to the rotors how long do you think that the rotors' would hold up in operation?
The next one will pop that balloon 👍💪✌
There's one big problem - the stages of the compressor and the shaft are not balanced. The noise and vibrations clearly show that. You're losing efficiency with that.
For static balancing I'm recommending using a propeller balancer from RC model shop. Dynamic balancing, required for turbines like that is more complex topic. But even static balancing would improve the performance.
Another topic - gaps between walls and blades. It's related to the speed (because blades elongate on higher speeds). And the gaps should be as close as possible. One way of achieving that - print larger blades and try to wear them down to the maximum allowable diameter. But balancing is #1 thing you need to do.
The reason you centripetal compressor failed and rubbed the housing was because you need to use a thrust bearing to stop the shaft from moving forward as pressure increases.
You need more compressor stages to improve its performance, meaning its output pressure.
I wonder how much heat is generated inside this compressor, great experiment Sir.
Very good question! The amount if heat generated is actually very easy to figure out, as all the energy the motor use turns into heat.
What temperature that translates to is more complicated than that, but without multiple stages with really good cooling between them, PLA can't handle the temperatures from just heat of compression common "garage air compressors" produce. On top of that there will always be heat from various forms of friction and other losses in the system.
I was pointing to the fact that compressing air molecules also generates heat apart from the motor itself, try to block the nozzle of a bike pump when you perform pumping action ;-) @@fishyerik
A lot from those type of bearings.
Adiabatic heating
at 6:20 it is clearly turbine surging since it blowes air out the wrong way
I wonder if I could use this on my kayak to run around in the river
considered magnetic bearings?
I am so impressed! This would it be a very useful tool for firing an oil burner on my Forge.
Add packing gland shaft seal.
Yeah, I kind of didn't think very few blades would work well. Why didn't you try doing a lot of blades like a commercial jet engine right from the start?
The reason behind the compressor can't blow the balloon is because I think the air is bleeding because the blades are not perfectly sealed to the outershell
Очень круто. В металле реализовать надо.
Hi, I noticed that your batteries seem to be bloated. I suggest you replace them, because bloating means a battery is starting to break up, and a bloated battery is very likely to catch fire and even explode at some point!
'shoulda be paintin thing in red, cuz red make thing go fasder' a 40k Ork, somewhere. WAAAAAHG
What is your blue/Grey Pla?
Aren't your bearing bit to heavy for the task ?
Not an mecanical engeenier here, but since a part of the bearing is rotating having the minium amount of weight could be beneficial. For exemple less inertia could have saved some of your couplers ;)
Why are those smaller batteries more powerful even though they're smaller?
Now attach this to the printed turbine, and you have free energy😎
I know painting the rotor yellow to increase performance was a joke but it might have a smother finish witch will actually increase performance.
reduce the distance between the blades and the stators blades in the compressor.
next video: 3D printing an airplane turbine
Can I put this in my Honda?
I don't think it's a good idea XD
Brother why don't you try to put steam nozzle at output of compressor 💡
Try to inflate the balloon with some other pump to break initial balloon "first time inflation" strength and the it should work 🙂
It's cheating XD
If your standard is M4 so you changed the design, then why didn't you just design for M4 right from the start?
A double acting piston compressor is way better for pressure.
Your conpressor was working at surge condition, it better to change to large discharge nozzle
it s nice, supercharger for car
Your batteries also look like they're about to blow up too. :S
The video should be called, I made a noise maker.
Why are the fan making so much noise in very low rpm senario? You must loose a lot of energy there just because of it.
👍⭐
why not print piston type compressor with steel plate valves?
your challenge woulbe heat and ring fit.
Yellow spins faster!
To do a smoke test the easy way, use vape 😉
I feel like there is way more noise than there should be
ohhh man , U got " Let's Print " channel and ur print quality for mechanical parts is kind of bad, I would fix it asap ( I am also 3D print guy so I just notice some details ). Please don't get me wrong, you got decent content , I like to watch it.
it was as limp as it can get, bad seal i suppose?
Hello, great video! Just here to say that I had a really good luck 3d printing turbo impellers which I used in mini jet engines. I will make a full video about impeller geometry and performance as they are quite decent. Fell free to check it out on my channel :)
which is better for 3d printing noob. Creality k1 max or bambu lab? I for sure want abs good prints
stay far away from the creality.
Again just like with Turbine you made the rotating part incorrectly
Stator blades need to have opposite twist of rotor blades
impotent red balloon😅
Those poor batteries have gone a hard way…
Sounds like it needs balancing.
Yotob
that's a dual bladed ducted fan sir.. try again.
No, 3D Print is simply to describe real model.
Haha, "seeable"! Why not just "visible"?
You can just buy a compressor from store
Not the point
But you don't need a compressor to blow up that kind of balloon without lungs. There are plenty of plain old blower fans that'll happily do that job. So what if this had worked? You wouldn't really prove that it's a compressor.