Beekeeping Frames, Is Foundation Necessary? None Required.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2018
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www.barnyardbees.com
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This will save you on time and money. no foundation required. try it, it works great. - บันเทิง
I converted to foundationless this year, I try to checkerboard these frames in where I can. Everyone says you need to coat the top wedge piece to get them to draw, being a second year beekeeper wax is still precious to me. With all that said I don't even wax the wedge and they take to it right away.
For any new beeks here watching this, just make sure that if you use a full box of foundationless frames. Then you will need to watch very closely for cross comb. I highly recommend checkerboarding with pulled frames. One foundationless frame then one pulled or foundation frame and so on. This gives them a guide to build straight comb.
Hi David, I just ordered 3 mated marked queens from your store. I sent the following to Heather after the order. Thank you Hearher for making this purchase a pleasure and I also want thank your whole crew! I look forward to my queens and raising my "Barnyard Bees"!!
Sincerely, Phillip Hall
Your speaking my language. I'm such a fan of natural drawn comb--its working with the bees and supporting them in their natural ways. And ya, with a starter strip with wax on it, I never have issues. Thanks David.
I will try going without foundations this year. Thanks for the info and all the best from Germany.
Thank you, sir. Beekeeping can be a racket. It's really quite simple.
David, I am a new beekeeper finds your videos very informational. I recently made a split off of a friends backyard hive and requeened the split at the first part of July. I live in California and if it wasn’t for your videos, I probably would have listened to many experienced people in my area to not make a split in the month of July. Luckily for me I love to learn new things and took onto the TH-cam scene very quickly. I have watched almost every video in your library and believe your videos to be of the most cutting edge and likely to give good informed information to the new keeper. I will continue to watch your videos and even rewatch because I truly hope to learn the art of beekeeping. Thank you for your time spent each week teaching the new bee keeper. P.S. I was one of your 50 thousandth subscribers so congratulations on a huge accomplishment!
David, I started feeding immediately when I started the split and plan to feed through the winter. I am hoping to grow to 10 hives by next May. Using your videos I am confident I will be able to do that very easily. Thank you again!
Funny you post this video. I was thinking to do a wood strip instead of a starter strip using scraps. Perfect timing.
i just started with bees 3 months ago and that is how i make my frames i just rip a pc of wood on the table saw and glue it in the groove 3/32 x 3/4 ,then i coat it with wax and add fishing line. the bees love it and draw thoese frames out first
I'm a brand new beginner, so I'm using foundation for my first year because there were only so many techniques I can learn before I get my bee packages on March 30, but I will definitely be interested in trying foundation less frames in the future.
Great idea David!
Once again as with the feeding video, right on the money. thank you
That system works good with jute sting also when stapled to top bar and waxed.You need to be on a good flow or feed them and they make a very nice brood comb.
We are using the grooved frames from Mann Lake and gluing popcicle sticks in and not waxing them. The bees take to them quickly and immediately wrap the comb around the popcicle stick to the top bar.
Love your videos.. An Irish fan
I have tried various methods over the years and have found the easiest ways are usually the ones the bees will take right to. When I make up bars ( top bars ) for my colonies I rip a blade width dado about a 1/2 deep and plane down starter strips which are glued in place. I used to dip in wax after completion but I have found that as long as the bees have a straight edge to build down on even waxing is not necessary. I know there are some out there that will say cutting that dado will only give a place for beetles to hide but if you fill that gap completely with glue the problem is solved. When making your own gear take your time and do it right the first time to avoid headaches in the future. Haven't had a problem with beetles or mites for years now since I went treatment free.
Good subject David. We all forget Honeybees do this naturally in feral and the wild. They know all the angles including the weather direction that's going to impact them the most in a colony of tree limb bees. Amazing!! I had a swarm just recently that I couldn't get quickly and by the time I did they had started drawing out comb at the angle of the limb vs gravity. So cool to see. David, the Goldenrod is out over here in NE Alabama on lookout mountain. How about thar? We may not have worry to much about a dearth here for a while. Hopefully.
Thanks for another helpful video.
Mine are plastic centers that look like comb. I got them from Tractor supply but they seem to be working. I'm not trying to raise bee's but this has become fun and I just might. One hive now maybe more soon! Thanks so much for your info.
For the new Beeks as well as the experienced it will serve you best to start with a pair of hives (or Nucs ) so that you have something you can compare too. With 2 you can tell if one is doing better or worse than the other. You can try things on one and if it does better or worse than the other it will help you decide what might work. I had one new Beek come to us wanting to buy 5 Nucs. I talked him instead into purchasing just 2 and explained why. I was open and honest with him and lost a sale on 3 Nucs but will end up with a happier customer!
Good morning and thank you
Thank you for this!!!
I have started using the wedge top with the strip stapled in instead of the started strip and they seem to do just fine without even coating them with wax. Just thought I'd mention it
I started this a few months back. I actually think they draw it out more evenly. Just make sure that you support the comb with the fishing line. I hate grabbing a frame in the summer and it breaking off when I search for a queen or look in the cells for eggs. Great work David as usual.
i love honeycomb with my honey so im glad this works too! i thought you could only use prebuilt comb frames
That's the way I do it, David, except I don't even coat it with wax and have had no problem getting them drawn.
This video was awesome
I use a combination of starter strips and some full sheets of wax foundation. On recent inspection I see worker brood where the starter is then a ton of Drone brood on the comb they built. It's common to get more drone brood when you let the bees build their comb with no foundation. I have a couple of big hives (3 brood boxes) and there are about four full frames of Drone. This will reduce your honey surplus as they eat and don't contribute. Making Nucs Like David does here it's not a problem foundationless. But if you expand to a big hive, they will make alot of Drones. To prevent this you need full worker foundation on the frames. When you see alot of drone brood it means the hive is strong and healthy as the Queen feels there is enough resource to support them.
the fact people have the guts to do this if I had to do this I would run away
Thanks for the video! Would these frames be strong enough to be used for honey and putting in the extractor, or are they primarily for brood?
They will if they enough old or have wire in it
Thanks a lot
I use pop-cycles sticks at the top and 2-3 rows of fishing line
I use a top feeder and wonder about ventilation. The top feeder blocks the ventilation hole, as it sits on it. I notice some condensation within the hive because of this. I had one person tell me they prop open the top of the top feeder and I did this and then really saw condensation on the inside lid. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Thank you. ✌
Is the fishing line just there to support the frame during extraction?
I can't get mine to draw in this season even with syrup. They are NOT going to make it to winter if they don't build. Any hints? Also beetles are becoming an issue and those beetle traps are useless and they keep propolizing the hole son the CD case closed as soon as I put them in.Screened bottoms have proven to multiply the beetle problem immensely.
I do that with the frames and those black paint sponges and melted wax works very good..
Yet another great, informative video from you guys - mega-thanks!!! Can I slice off strips of wax coated plastic foundation and use them for starter strips? If so, how would that compare to using actual wax foundation for a starter strip?
good to know !!!
I been talking about bees all year and this is why I found this channel hey Dave I leave in Boston and this is the first year I haven’t seen a single bee am really concerned about it can you tell me what is going on ? Please
Bees seem to naturally draw out straight if they have something to start. Says the forgetful Beekeeper that forgot to put 1-2-10 frames back in the super. They seem to do just as well on the inner cover or the lid.
Thanks !!
Can you do a starter strip for the whole hive? Say you just bought a new 10 frame hive, can all 10 frames use a starter strip?
yes it works fine
Can you use comb from a plastic foundation frame as a starter? It seems you could scrape half of it off, then embed it into the wire? Will that work? If I wanted to convert frameless
The easiest and quickest way to fix this is buy your frames from Kelly Bees in Clarkson Kentucky. They already have a frame that has a V at the top of it that the bees draw down from, I think it is an F frame. This is what I've been using for years and they work very well.
That’s where I get mine as well.
Kelley’s F-type frames are all we are going too. I have experimented with them in Nucs placing 5 frames in a new Nuc and the bees build perfectly formed comb with no cross comb. There is always the possibility they can do cross comb but I have as of yet to see any. Just remember to level your hives side to side. If using solid bottom give slight tilt to the front to allow rain water to exit via the front, screened bottoms we level front to back as well.
Good info
I use all just starter strips because all my customers pay premium for comb honey which is now almost impossible to find some squeeze it but most just chew a piece. Old keepers told me the bees are much more likely to swarm without foundation I have not found that to be the case anybody else? I do you use foundation in the brood boxes maybe that makes a difference ?
I've installed wired frames without into a swarm, one problem if bees draw comb out too wide on one frame for honey storage then the frame beside it won't have enough space for bee space. I am currently trying checkerboard 1 frame just wired next foundation next wired, I haven't actually proved this will solve the problem but I guess it should help, so I'm currently using this method.
Where do you get the starter strips or the sheets you cut them from? Raw or organics wax?
I've been doing that for years turning the cleat bar down but I do not even waste time waxing it.
You leaned the frame with the queen against the side of the hive. That left me curious about the cluster of bees on the side after you put the frame back. Could the queen have left the frame? Also, was that something you checked out before moving on to another hive?
Very nice
Like in a Top Bar Bee Hive
David, do the bees naturally build small cell comb when you use foundationless frames? ? If I order a nuc I would think it would contain standard size cells when I receive it. If I add foundationless frames to the hive after installing the bus will they then start building small cell comb in those empty frames eventually converting all frame cells to the smaller size?
When they draw their comb without foundation they tend to build smaller cells yes. They will build what they need when and where they need it. I run foundationless mainly for that reason. The bees, they know things. ;-)
Do you tie it or use nails for the fishing line. Looked like you had it tied thanks for the video.
Barnyard Bee
Oh ok. Thanks
Hi David, Who won the free bees? Was it me ????? I sure could use some :) Cool tip by the way with the wax...….
Are foundationless frames ok to use for honey extraction; or do they fly apart in the extractor?
I think as long as the frames are wired, the wax will be secure enough to survive the extraction. I want to try this this season as well and that was one of my concerns but I know some beekeepers who only use natural comb and they say it works fine. Good luck.
You are down south. I am in mid-MD. Can you address your strategy to get your nucs to draw comb on your foundationless frames? Can you do it only during the flow? Outside the flow, can you do it only if you are at the same time feeding? Do your feed to get them to draw regardless of if being done during the flow or outside the flow? What difference is there between you doing it down south and those who are located up north? Love your vids!
Bees usually draw combs when is nectar flow if not you need them to feed strong colony can draw in nectar flow for two weeks or less 10 frame foundationleess in deep hive
I alternated starter strip and plastic foundation.... now I have 2 frames of drones.....
Same thing Im suffering...
How feasible is it to raise bees in SW Montana? What would be required to over-winter them?
So do you need to insulate the hive boxes?
do u know how to spray wax?I've done this and popsicle sticks,even just filling gap full of wax, but its a pain-paint brush bristles melt,dipping waste wax an leaves runs(which don't matter ) but spraying on would be soooo nice just curious if u have figured out any tricks other than painting.Informative video as always keep em coming
baddest bees try and experience with a painting spray gun with air an a priming tip. All metal one heat wax to higher temputure and also heat the air gun to maybe 200 degrees and where a glove. Might work. Would definitely need work out something kinks but I'm sure it could be possible.
Hi.By doing this, the queen does not lay male eggs?
What strength fishing line do you use in the frames?
@@davidhaught84 How often do they chew through it? Going to make up some this year and trying to weigh out pros and cons wire vs fishing line.
What test size of fishing line do you use and how do you secure it? Have 2 Kenyan top bar hives that I made and seriously thinking about Langstroth. Thank you for your videos.
I spotted the queen at 0:50.
Fishing line is what you use not wire? How do you attach that???
Yes its fishing line 8lb test or higher. The line is just strung through the holes, and tied. We staple the wax dipped tab on.
Do I have to use the string like can they still build comb with out it
Can someone please answer my question. Im new to bee keeping first hive ever. I have my hive set up now but it still in the house and im not sure if I need to use the string line for bees to build comb. I will be placing a oder for bees.
I’ve never done foundationless...I’ve heard it’s rather fragile. But this looks really cool! Should I assume you couldn’t use these honey frames in a centrifugal extractor? Com honey only?
if the frames are wired it'll be fine. 😊
I forgot a frame in my top deep in one week they attached to the bottom of the honey super and filled most of that gap with the purtiest comb ya ever saw ...I'm gunna make a BBQ sauce...hahahaha
Hey all, I'm in Ontario Canada, wondering where I can buy foundation or wax for reasonable price. Any help greatly appreciated.
I know this is off topic but does anyone know how beekeeping is done in places that don't go through winter? Do the bees keep working and producing honey year round? Or do they take a few months off? Or what? Just wondering.
South Florida beekeeper here, they work year round. We don't get time off. LOL
thanks!
I think your queen is on the side of the box
1:18 there's your queen
Good eye!!
1:09 you can see the queen :p (at the bottom left )
How is it easier and cheaper to use wood-strips from top bar dipped in wax than a starter strip? Isn't the wood an additional cost?...
Wedge top bars come with a small detachable strip of wood. Normally people use it to secure the foundation in place. You can just flip it 90 degrees so it sticks out downwards.
how to avoid drone foundation?
That's how L L Langstroth did it 170 years ago
what kind of bee it is it looks like a docile bee

Oh ok. Can you do a quick video? Thanks
Barnyard Bees
Ok thanks
Can you make a video showing how to do this???
Yes I sure will.
@@davidhaught84 thank you! 😊
Have you ever inhaled a bee?
Now this idea of letting the bees draw comb....this makes sense for people who are focused on making bees....but doesn't this make it harder for bees to maximize honey production?
Yes, nucs do a great job of drawing working comb, but as hives get larger they start drawing more and more drone cells. So if you want to maximize honey production you want to keep the broodnest clear and full of available worker comb for the queen to lay more workers. But nucs will draw wonderful comb. Drop a foundationless (empty, undrawn) frame in the middle of the broodnest of a strong hive and dollar to donuts it will all be drone brood.
Dave, I mean to ask you the following respectfully:
Have you ever considered going mite-treatment free, say in an isolated beeyard to begin with, taking the pain of colony collapses for a season or two or three, then only selling mite resistant queens from the survivors?
From what I have been reading about New Zealand's bee breeders who didn't treat, Varroa resistant percentage was about 3-6% from their bee yards after the Varroa arrived there in 2000.
Since selling queens is your business, if you're spreading non-resistant genetics, you're perpetuating the varroa problem.
If you can develop resistant genetic lines, then you can probably sell them for higher prices too, sell your clients breeding plans and multiple queens to re-populate their entire yards with resistant bees. It could be an even more profitable business for you.
I don't even add wax. Never have. They work off the the wedge just fine.