Foundationless Frames - Bee Vlog
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2015
- In this video I show 2 methods I use to create a comb guide to help the bees build straight comb. I also give the reasons I choose not to use foundation and show what is meant by "bee space."
Facebook me: / thebeevlog
Twitter me: / thebeevlog
Google+ me: google.com/+ThebeevlogPage
To keep up with my apiary and track the hives, visit My Apiary page at:
thebeevlog.com/p/apiary.html
![[Full Episode] MasterChef Junior Thailand มาสเตอร์เชฟ จูเนียร์ ประเทศไทย Season 3 Episode 5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g5wpgeAIzMs/mqdefault.jpg)
What excellent use of graphics to demonstrate a point ... I especially like how you explain why not to put an empty frame between two un-drawn foundation frames. Thanks!
I'm so happy I found the beekeeping side of TH-cam
+LoverOfMuch Welcome to the Light Side. :)
Great presentation! You're a natural teacher. I've used foundationless frames for years and like doing so very much. I learned a technique from Michael Bush that works perfectly. If you have no drawn comb available, to better guarantee the bees will build straight, just intersperce 2, or better 3 frames with foundation, inside the hive box. Works great.
I in my honey supers, I now have all frames with foundation except for one or two for cut comb.
Best video on foundationeless beekeeping on youtube. Thank you very much.
This is the clearest explanation that covers everything at once. I have watched alot of other videos that cover bits and pieces and leave you with more questions. Thanks!!
Bill, I've been using natural comb (foundationless) for some years now. One of the biggest tips I could share when getting started with foundationless (natural comb) and one has no older pulled foundation (drawn comb) is..... is to level the hive from side to side. Since, like all creatures on earth, bees have to deal with gravity. Gravity is a major player in the bees life and thus help is drawing straight vertical comb. You do a very nice job explaining the different techniques of beekeeping. Keep it up!
Great tip! Thanks!
Excellent video - very specific, clear, and informative. Thank you!
I have been splitting paint stirring sticks and gluing them in for a guide. The groove at the bottom is a great place for hive beetles to hide, so I have also been gluing the sticks in the bottom. I wish there were more options to buy foundationless frames without that bottom groove! So far they're building fairly straight comb. Thank you for the great videos. ...they're very helpful!
I love watching your videos. They're so informational in a way that is easy to understand. I have not yet gotten my own bees, but I think that along with my books and other educational things you will be a great help. Thank you so much for posting videos on the interwebs.
***** Thanks Ivy! :)
Thank you for your videos - all of them! I have been watching since some time last summer, went on a marathon at first to catch up and have eagerly awaited every new one after that! I already had an interest in starting a couple of hives before starting to watch but after watching I am really interested in trying your "style" of beekeeping. I am about to push the order button for 2 all medium foundation less hives, wish me luck!
islandhomesteader Awesome! Good luck! :)
This is a great presentation. You have a friendly, easy going approach to sharing your knowledge and you do an excellent job explaining the reasons for each task. Thank you for your help.
Thanks! :)
Best comment ever by beeks is "I don't share tools between my hives, I discourage drifting and I don't move comb between hives, but I use foundation from hives about which I have no knowledge". I am glad you covered this chemical contamination / medication / bacterial spores are likely to be present especially if it came from a commercial operation.
You bring up a good point. It's interesting that beekeepers warn against using honey from unknown sources to feed bees, but don't hesitate to use wax from unknown sources.
Just wanted to say thanks. Your a great teacher with some very good information. Have a good year
+Jim Dufty Thanks!
You just explained a problem I've been having trying to go foundationless. I was putting empty frames in between frames with foundation! Thanks Bill, your illustration points out exactly what was going wrong!
codeboy823 Glad I could help. :)
Very informative and clear!
Awesome! Thanks for the tips!
Bill, I'd like to elaborate on a few things in this video. The video is all very good information I just wanted to touch on a few points. First "bee space"- we use 3/8" in our Langstroth hives for several reasons. I just wanted to point out that when the reverend Langstroth discovered bee space he noted it to be somewhere between 1/4" and 3/8". We use 3/8" because it works and we can guarantee that it won't be to small. The second thing I wanted to mention was the sandwiching foundationless frames between frames with foundation. I have used this technique very successfully when starting brand new colonies. Drawn comb as you said is much more reliable, however when you start out we don't all have that luxury. I'm sure there have been plenty of beekeepers have had the two combs in the center of three frames. That's just not been my experience. Bee's do have a mind of their own though and I've had plenty of cross comb and weird comb so I certainly wouldn't put it past them. Great video keep them coming.
B Batta Thanks for the comment. I've even seen bees keep a bee space of 1/2" between the bottom of the comb and the bottom bar of the frame. So, yeah, it can vary between 1/4" and 1/2" depending on how the bees want to manage it. It seems to be smaller in the honey and bigger in the brood nest. Which makes sense when considering the traffic and air flow needs of the different spaces.
And yeah, bees have a mind of their own. I've seen the double comb happen between the foundations, but it certainly isn't an absolute. Just a cautionary tale. :)
When I was trying to add a lot of new comb I had double combs several times but then started putting melted wax on the guide and that stopped cold even in between bare foundation.
Thank you for your information videos. I am learning a lot. I plan on retiring in about 2 years and bees are going to be part of that time of my life. I had bees many years ago when I was living in the mountains of North Carolina and enjoyed the hobby very much and look forward to it again. I just watched your video on the FLOW HIVE and I think it would take all the fun out of it.
Dave Harrington Thanks Dave. Best of luck in getting back into the hobby.
Thank you SOOO much for this video More people need to see. We have gotten way-to-hands-one with bees, when we should me more hands-off.
Glue is NOT overkill. I use staples on mine and since they arn't glued down, its really easy to pull it apart. I've found this out lately since I'm redoing my frames with fishing line.
I disagree. If you put staples in correct spots dont need glue!
Very helpful. Thank you!
Mr BeeVlog - Thanks for a great video - you're awesome... :D
I plan on using fishing line on the foundationless frames to aid in creating straight comb between frames with plastic foundation, I'm a newbie and this will be my first hive. Frames with comb drawn will take a way. Also my so called 8-frame boxes I can easily put 9-frames into them, then only a slight space is left. Boxes and frames are from Mann Lake.
Excelent explanation!
This is a well-made video.
from GREECE well done!!!!!👍👍👍
you have explane it verry well
Thank you 😊!
I'm planning on starting to switch over to foundationless this coming year. Modified a couple frames last year and they were drawn out nicely. Purchased the W. T. Kelley foundationless frames and looking forward to seeing how the do.
If you've got them sandwiched between 2 drawn combs they'll do fine. I've just had bad luck with them when starting with nothing. But maybe your bees will do different. :)
TheBeeVlog That's my plan. The ones from last year were the two outermost frames and they drew them out well.
Very well done!
+Calvin King Thanks! :)
I wouldn't trust their wax either! Thanks man! Im a beginner; this helps so much!!!!
Have you thought of attaching wooden chamfer strips to the top bars to create a upside down wedge as the comb guide?
I have started working a relationship with a Pest management business that normally destroys bees when they swarm and I have no clue of doing things when working with bees, But I have managed to get the plans to build a Langstrom Hive set up and the frames..(working with wood is not a problem for me) But how or where would I get older brood comb every for the bottom of the hive if and when I do collect up a swarm or can I just start with empty frames on the bottom....
thanks good info.
BTW, the bees' home will be foundationless frames. I hope they draw some comb quickly.
Very helpful
I found two suppliers that make frames specifically for foundationless comb. Kelley Beekeeping and BeeThinking.com. I haven't used either, but am going to order some.
oic6789 I've used Kelley's foundationless frames. My friends own Bee Thinking and I was just there today. :) They buy the frames from Kelley and resell them. They're very nice frames, but shipping them to Oregon doubles the price. Which is essentially what I'd pay if I bought them without shipping from Bee Thinking. It would work out the same. And since I'm a cheapskate I'd rather spend the extra time in the shop than spend the money. (Shop time is therapeutic to me anyway.)
Thanks for another great video.
How do the foundationless frames stand up to being spun during honey extraction?
Would it be worth putting some wires in too do you think?
Nigel King Some people do wires so they can extract the honey in a spinning extractor. It's extra work for me so I don't bother. Without wire support there's a good chance the comb will "explode" during extraction. Another option, if you don't want to use wires, is to use a radial style extractor with a variable speed motor. Start it out slow and increase the speed as it goes.
Nigel King Oh, and fishing line might be a better option than wire so you can cut through it with a knife if you want to cut the comb out.
I'm not a beekeeper (yet) but after watching a lot of videos it would appear there is a lot of "personal preferences" going on. I've seen videos where people say that you can make foundation-less comb by sandwiching empty frames between pre-made foundation frames. You very clearly explain why that method isn't best, and when I eventually start my own hive I definitely want to avoid using any pre-made foundation, even a small strip to get the bees started. Using the method of a wood/popsicle strip as the guide, could one put a line of wax all the way around the inside walls of the frames instead of just one line on the top? My thinking is that this outline of wax all the way around would encourage them to connect it straighter, but as I've never worked with bees I don't know. I haven't seen that idea mentioned before, only the one line, so I'm curious if it has been tried...
+Karen Salmonsen Beekeeping is all about "personal preferences." :) It can be a little frustrating for some beekeepers who just want to be given a recipe to follow. But it's quite liberating to know that much of what we do really doesn't matter all that much and we can just do what we feel like doing. When bees build comb they festoon, or hang from each other and build the comb from the top down. In their festoon they can measure out distances between combs and use gravity to hang it perfectly vertical. They ignore the sides and bottom bar of the frame until they get close and they'll either stop short and not attach it (for better travel around the combs), or try to work around it and bend the combs over, or attach it for better structural support (which is often the case for combs filled with honey). They'll probably completely ignore any wax lines provided on the sides and bottom of the frames.
Thanks for your videos. We are going foundationless in our apiary. I have read that it is important to make sure the hive boxes are level side to side to keep them building straight come from top to bottom. The writer said this is because the bees hang like a plumb bob from the starter strips.???
Yes, this is true. They "festoon," or hang like a chain, to establish a vertical orientation for the comb. The hive can lean forward or back, but not side to side.
What is the measurement of the frame
#24 (Vlog #163)
For a person wishing to build their own frames which source of lumber do you recommend? I’m sure Pine is cheaper but which (if any) has proven to be better overall and why?
Thanks
BTW - Just finished your playlist “For Beginners”. Now we’re just going to start all over again and watch them in chronological order. So much to learn and we’re excited to get started.
+55Herbie1 I've never tried anything other than pine. So I'm not sure if another type of lumber would be better. I don't see any advantages to other types, so I'd stick with the cheapest.
I have a question. I would like to go without the pre-comb sized foundations on my bee frames but like the idea of giving them a foundation to keep straight. Could I make my own wax foundation but just not emboss it with the cell pattern so they can build the cells whatever size they want? That way I sirt if get the best of both worlds. I get to use my own wax for the foundation which I can reinforce, get straight comb, and the bees preferred cell sizes. Can you think of any reason this wouldn't work? Thank you for your time.
That's actually a really good idea and something I've been wanting to do myself. Just haven't done it yet. Let me know if you try it and how it works out for you.
Great info thanks! How many supers do you stack at a time? I've been told only add a super when the one being worked is almost full. Then we were told at the bee club mtg to stack 3 supers at a time since bees patrol all open frames and it would keep pests (wax moths) out of your frames and keep everything clean. Not sure which way to go and would be most interested in your opinion. Thanks again, Vickie
Nana V Good question. There are many ways of doing this. Much of it depends on how strong the flow is in your area. Also, stacking on 3 supers assumes that you're giving them empty drawn comb. It also assumes you'll be using a queen excluder. Unless you've got that much drawn comb already I really don't recommend it. And since I don't save drawn comb for honey supers and I let the bees build all new comb I just add on as they need it.
super!
I am starting a nuc and a package and wanted to go foundationless. I was told that this might be difficult on the package and to alternate foundation and foundationless. You showed why that doesn't work. Would it be ok to go all foundationless with both the nuc and package? I am in Montana so it will be awhile before we get blooms.
Emily Rindal Yes, you can go all foundationless with either one. The package will require feeding since they have nothing to start with. They need this even with foundation too. If there is no forage available when the nuc arrives, it may also need a little feeding. There is a common myth that foundation makes it easier on the bees. This really isn't true. It makes it easier for the beekeeper. The bees build comb equally well with either foundation or none. The only thing foundation does is define the cell size and give more support to the comb.
Great video and Thanks. I have decided to go foundationless this year as I believe it is more natural with less risk of obtaining contaminated wax. I have a question for you. I make my own frames. Have you seen the ones where you make the top par with a beveled bottom for the bees to start drawing off of? What is your take on this type?
+Spencer Herrick Yes, I've seen those. I've used some that have a very small and rounded protrusion, but they don't work well and I get a lot of cross-comb on them. A sharper V shape would probably work better.
I wonder how flow hive sounds when vibrated? :) I am using foundationless frames in my hybrid hive. Where do you recommend buying those frames with the wedges. Mine did not come with those. I guess it because I bout frames with foundation but I took it out because I did not like the plastic.
ArtisanTony If you don't have wedges you can glue in popsicle sticks.
ArtisanTony use pop sickle sticks in the groove
I will try foundation-less this season. My question to you do they take longer to build their own comb? Do they require more feed? Cheers
Megahs2010 It depends on the season and strength of the nectar flow, and the strength of the hive. I've seen some hives fill 10 frames with comb in a few weeks, which is about the same as a hive with foundation. There are a couple things to keep in mind. Foundation, even wax foundation, doesn't really contribute to comb building, it just forces the pattern and cell size. They still have to produce the wax themselves. So wax production would be the same.
In a foundationless frame the bees festoon (hang on each other like a chain) to measure and build comb. They can't do this on foundation. In the festoon they work as a team, with bees producing wax and sending the wax flakes up the chain to the top where bees are assembling the comb. From what I've learned, festooning actually increases wax production in the bee's glands. So, theoretically, foundationless hives could build comb faster. This would be especially true if it were bees that just didn't like the foundation for whatever reason and were reluctant to use it.
I have both the wax with wires, and plastic foundations. I personally like the plastic better due only to its fit in the frame, my wax foundations seem a bit bigger and end up getting bent.... ive seen the pins used to keep the wax straight, but common... really... do I need another product? or will the plastic be ok?
Permaculture Prepper I've had a similar problem when trying to assembly wired wax foundation into frames at another apiary I volunteer at. Such a hassle when it doesn't fit.
Plastic is fine an d u can extract it
Hi Bill, for example if i am adding a super to a hive, is it bad idea to put only foundation less frames into that super?
The bees need a "ladder" to get to the tops of the frames and start building comb. If they don't have a way to climb up then they start building from the bottom and it makes a big mess. I recommend putting at least 1 drawn comb into any new box you give them.
at 10:12 where you describe putting an empty frame between two frames with foundation.. this is exactly what I did in my hive (plastic frames alternating with wood foundationless). I am a new beekeeper this year. If you don't have drawn comb to start with, how do you get them to draw straight comb without foundation?
Ethan Waldman It's all about the comb guide. Using a strip of foundation usually gets straighter comb, but also just watching and correcting any crooked comb as they build. I've been in several hives this year when helping others since shooting this video and seeing cases of people alternating undrawn foundationless and foundation frames and in most of these cases the bees were slow to build on the foundation. Even if they didn't double-up the comb, they seemed to avoid using or even going around the foundation. It was like a divider in the hive that was slowing the growth.
TheBeeVlog You've got it nailed- I'm noticing the same behavior in my hives- they are not loving the plastic frames. So if they build comb on the edge of a wooden frame, how do I repair it? Can i just smush it into place or do I have to remove it and make them start over?
Ethan Waldman It depends how bad or off-track it is and if there are 2 combs doubled up. If it's just a small adjustment it can be partially cut free from the top bar and pushed into place. If it's a large adjustment it might be necessary to remove all of it and rubber-band it into place. Or sometimes it's just easiest to leave it alone and try to do better as the hive grows. The messed up comb can get rotated out of use next year.
Hi, could you put a frame with foundation in the middle and all the rest foundation less or just a strip of foundation
Thanks
Sorry about the delayed response. Sure, you could do that. I don't think it will make any difference in encouraging straight comb though. The comb guide is the key to good comb.
I use unguided top bar only hive at the moment, will be interesting in my hive inspection this week to see how much of a nightmare their comb is :P
Jeremy Connor Yeah, it should be interesting to see. In every hive I've seen that uses unguided frames the bees made a total mess. (It works fine for them, but not for the beekeeper.) Of course, these beekeepers also didn't make many inspections to correct the comb either. So it could have been a combination of the factors.
With warre you harvest by the box, so cross comb isn't a big problem. Also you don't return comb to the hive, so chopping it out and compressing it down is all part of the process. Theoretically you only have to open the hive at most a few times a year, even adding boxes just slide in under the hive (nadiring), so hive temperature remains mostly unaffected.
Jeremy Connor all of that said, many warre keepers are now adding guides and frame edges without bottoms etc to encourage straight comb, my hive just doesn't have those. It is my first year running it, I'm looking at Lang's for my next two hives to be honest though.
Oh, that's right. I forgot you use Warre. Sorry. Yeah, cross comb is not that big of an issue there since you don't intend to reuse any combs or really get into them much at all.
TheBeeVlog I would be very impressed if you remember every subscribers hive details!! :P
I'm just getting into bee keeping. Can I start all foundationless or should I use foundations until I get comb and then place foundationless frames between the combed foundations?
Ron Champion Either way works fine. It just depends on how you feel about foundation.
HELP! I have to put on a second hive body. I had ordered frames and foundation but there are no bee supplies in 3 states. Everything is backordered. I can build the frames but what will happen if I put 10 foundationless frames in an empty hive body?
Move a couple drawn combs up into the new box. As shown in this video: th-cam.com/video/6P6_cdQ84Y8/w-d-xo.html
I LOVE your shirt! Are you willing to share where you got it?
Claudia80nin Thanks. I love it too. Very comfortable. I got it at BeeThinking: www.beethinking.com/products/im-a-keeper-t-shirt
can all 10 frames in a box be foundationless without any wax applied when putting a new box?
Yes, that's how I do it. Just be sure the frames have a good comb guide or the bees will definitely make some very messy cross comb. The comb guide helps to encourage but does not guarantee straight combs. Some adjustments to the combs may still be necessary.
@@TheBeeVlog thank you!
Newbie here. Does the 3/8 bee space really matter much between the bottom of the frame and the bottom board? I’m building a Langstroth Long hive and I’m going to deviate a little from the original plans because it’s cheaper the way I’m doing it with free scrap 2x lumber instead of store bought plywood, plus I don’t own a router to countersink the plywood. It’s going give me about an inch from the bottom of the frames and bottom board.
In your case, since you're not stacking boxes, the extra space under the frames won't be a big deal. The bees might draw a little bit of comb there, but not likely too much and it won't really matter.
@@TheBeeVlog thanks! That’s what I figured but wanted to make sure. I figured I could just scrape off the comb from the bottom of the frames as it acquires. The extra room on bottom might help ventilation better also. I’m in Texas and it gets hot and humid. What book would you recommend for a beginner? I’m needing 6 hives for Ag Exemption. My current beekeeper is retiring because of age. I can’t afford her hives. I’m going with Layens and Langstroth long hives. I’m 60 now and old age is creeping up fast so I’m going with those styles to make it easy when I’m 80.
I recommend picking up a book specifically about horizontal hives. It's not a common practice, so finding local help might be difficult. A book would be a good resource and would help take some of the guesswork out. Unfortunately I haven't read any so have nothing to recommend.
@@TheBeeVlog I’ve already ordered “Beekeeping with a smile” from Dr. Leo’s website for that reason. Should arrive this week. I’m reading “Beekeeping for Dummies” now as prescribed by the retiring beekeeper who’s using my property now. She lost about 80% of her hives when it got -3 here. All time record low for my part of Texas. She had 100s of hives before that. I raise pecans but beekeeping is much easier. No records to keep with bees like other Ag exemptions. Just have to keep the required # of hives alive.
Bill, did you purposefully omit Kelley's frame style, which utilize a beveled top bar?
Bill (LOL), I eschew social media! I'm quite technical, but never log onto FB, TW, etc. Sorry you couldn't reply to my comment - I have hunted down your suggested setting and it should now work for 'Anyone'. I could think of no other way to reply. Thanks for your continued information flow - my bees are only six weeks away!
Dave Moseley Hey look! A reply button now. :) Dave already got my reply, but for the benefit of anyone else wondering, no I didn't purposefully omit Kelley's foundationless frame. I just didn't think to include it. This video was more about the DIY approach. Kelley's frame is good. I've used it with about the same success as my DIY way. But due to cost of shipping to Oregon I prefer DIY.
TheBeeVlog
I want your shirt and also loved the beginnig of the video your sight just the real thing, thanks for sharing. Please if you sell the shirts or know the sourse please share. Thankyou nice to discover your beelog.
That shirt's one of my favorites. I bought it at Bee Thinking, but they've discontinued this design. I guess that officially makes it a "classic." They have another shirt with the same message, just a different design. www.beethinking.com/products/im-a-keeper-t-shirt
Mate your the best bee guy along with fat bee man and mike palmers please make more vids. Is there a donate option or do you have a sit
+ieatvege Well, thank you very much! I'm a big fan of both fat bee man and Mike Palmer, so I really appreciate that! :) There are 2 ways to donate, either on my channel page on the right side there's a blue "Support" button. Or on my website, thebeevlog.com. Click the "Shop" tab. Thanks! Unfortunately my life is too busy right now to have the time to make more videos, but it won't always be this way. I'm hoping I have a little more time next year.
A little off topic, and may have been asked/answered already...where did you get your shirt?
Henderson Hives From BeeThinking: www.beethinking.com/products/im-a-keeper-t-shirt
or should I just embed a small piece of wild comb along the top edge for them to work from
I recommend starting with empty frames unless it's your own comb. If you don't know the history of the comb you can't know if it's disease-free. Just make sure to have a good comb guide.
Thank you.. So the Experiment Begins.....
To me making frames is very hard and time consuming even with a jig. i spend a lot of time making and cutting the pieces out for frames I don't use the plastic wax foundation my bees want draw it out, and i make my own foundation, from my own wax, it's not embezzled just rolled out and cut to fit inside the frames so it want break if i'am short on wax i will use starter strips. There no way in hell i'am paying 3500 bucks for a foundation roller with the embezzle cells on it, i would make a rubber embezzle mold for foundation.. But its not that important, Its just a little bit faster with cell foundation or have the bee wax starter strips or a blank foundation wax with out the cells is what i use. Just a little bit faster, Than using no foundation I have No Wire No Plastic.in my foundation.The bees will draw it out them self reguardless Thanks for sharing cheers
426 SUPER BEE Thanks. Making your own foundation is another way to go. I wanted to make some starter strips from my own wax but used up all my wax on other projects. Maybe next year.
TheBeeVlog
Cool I hope they make ya a lot bro
Do you use divided or grooved frames?
+Peter Wright I'm not sure what you mean.
+TheBeeVlog Thanks for replying so quickly! Many sellers sell their frames with a bottom bar that's grooved or divided. I'm not sure what it means, but what's your advice?
+Peter Wright Ah, I understand now. I use them like that just because that's the most common way they are sold. That groove is for foundation. Since I'm not using foundation the groove is unnecessary. It's also potentially a place for pests to hide or lay eggs. So, depending on where you live and how prolific small hive beetle is, that's something else to consider. I haven't found that groove to be a problem for me, but I'd rather not have it there.
So do you use divided? I live in Virginia. My hive is on top of a patio, so really they can't reproduce trying to burrow into concrete. Thanks for the good info. Love the videos! :)
+Peter Wright My bottom bars have a groove.
Where do u buy ur frames from, and what r type or frame u use, thanks buddy
I buy from local a supplier, which used to be Ruhl Bee, which changed to Brushy Mountain. But they've gone out of business, so I'll have to find a new local supplier. I like the typical wedge style frames with the bar that can be broken out for "wedging" in the foundation, or in my case, make a comb guide.
O ok
Yes I want to change to that style.
Thanks so much.
I love u videos.keep it up
Why is the length of the frame very long?
Instead of 19inches
Can we like make it to 12 or 13 inches?
Wat difference will it make?
It only depends on the size of the box.
@@TheBeeVlog thank you for the suggestion.
Am from india, and iam trying to start beekeeping on a large scale,
So i just want to make sure the frames and boxes are made to the best of my interest for future.
Thank you once again.
I hav enjoyed your video
I recommend finding out what's common and standard in your area. Having commonly found or commonly used equipment helps when getting help or making purchases from other local beekeepers.
@@TheBeeVlog will keep that in mind.
Most of them are local and their boxes are not evently equal in size as they are not professional.
Was hoping to find good mentor soon
Do you think I can start with All foundationless frames?
Sorry about the delayed response. Yes, you can definitely start with all foundationless frames. Just make sure you've got a good comb guide and check on them about once a week during the main nectar flow or while you're feeding (that's when they draw comb the fastest) to make sure things are staying on track.
Thanks
¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!llllllll I gather from other youtube videos that the bees will build worker comb in the spring buildup and if you miss that you will generally get drone comb also drill a hole or holes in the top bar preferably the size of a bamboo Barbecue sqewer and push them to the bottom of the frame and this will support the comb!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm loving the idea of going foundation-less on my beehive! Have you ever tried adding wire to the frames as well? I'm hoping that the bees would be able to build comb over it so i could put the 'stronger' frames in an extractor.
Do you have a problem with bees drawing drone comb?
They do draw drone comb, but I don't consider it a problem. A drone-right colony will use about 15-20% of the brood nest to raise drones. That means about 2 out of 10 brood frames will be drone comb. This is the natural state of a colony and something they will always work for no matter how much we try to stop them. So why fight it? If space isn't given to them to raise drones then they use the space between frames and boxes to do it and that makes a huge mess when you open up the boxes and tear open all that burr comb. Then you have to waste time scraping it all off so you can close the boxes back up without risking crushing bees or the queen in the burr comb.
@@TheBeeVlog Yes, I agree the burr comb is a pain. I just put on a medium super with foundationless frames and they started to draw out all drone comb which is making me itch.
If you mark the frames that have drone comb (like with a thumb tack or something easy to see but easy to remove that the bees can't remove) then you can use that to make them easy to find again. You can move them to the edges of the brood nest so they can still raise drones (drones are great!) but will later fill with honey at the end of the season. You can also use it as a way to manage varroa mites by removing and freezing the capped drone brood. Timing is important if you want to use that strategy. Look up drone culling for mite control to learn more.
@@TheBeeVlog Thanks!
I started foundationless last year, after reading Bush's Practical Beekeeper. the two bastard russian colonies rebelled. ignored the guides, ignored the frames, build all their comb perpendicular to the frames. Total mess.complete disaster of unworkable hives. Italians and Carniolan colonies have done great with it, and those hives were very pretty.
macrossactual Haha! Oh no! (Sorry I don't mean to laugh at you, but it's just too funny.) "In Russian beehive, comb guide you." :) I wonder if Russian bees have an instinct that drives them to draw comb perpendicular to the entrance to change the way air flows in the hive. I've never worked with Russians. Just Italian/Carniolan mutts. I've notice, when given the opportunity, most of the "off guide" work is near the entrance, probably to reduce drafts in the brood nest.
TheBeeVlog
all jokes absolutely spot on. The frikkin KGBee.
After one season with them, I'm relieved they are gone, even though it was a frikkin expensive way to contribute to the local ecosystem.
Interestingly, both hives built their comb at the same angle. It looked like burr-comb gone wild when they were done.
One made a mess, then swarmed in the spring, the second made a mess, robbed the hell out of the Carnies and then swarmed in the late summer.
Both hives were very hot, so it was unpleasant to even be nearby. Lots of incidental stings last summer. (I'm moderately allergic, so getting stung for merely being near by is not worth the hassle)
Totally agreed! plastic foundation is disgusting
I really like your videos but I have to say if anyone in America thinks they have bees with no chemicals in their combs and hives they are kidding themselves. City folk use as much or more chemicals as farmers. I use one inch strips of the plastic foundation as starter strips.
You're right about bees bringing in chemicals. Nothing I can do about that. But that's another good reason not to add the "recycled" chemicals found in commercial foundation. I think a small starter strip, like you do, is fine though. Pretty minimal, and a good way to get straight comb.
I have to respectfully say that your theory about getting wax from other bee keepers whose bees collected it from flowers sprayed with chemicals is flawed. Can you guarantee your bees will not collect wax from flowers sprayed with chemicals ? Secondly, your non-use of foundations in frames causes the bees to consume more time on building the foundation and less time collecting honey. At the end of the day bees will do their own thing... if the cells are too big or too small for their liking, then they will change the size. I do not use plastic foundation... I can't chew it.
SisyphusTwo Thanks for your comment. :) There is no doubt that there are pesticides in wax foundations. Many studies have shown this. Here's one: journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009754
"Can you guarantee your bees will not collect wax from flowers sprayed with chemicals ?" -- No, I can't guarantee that. But let's follow the logic of comparing 2 hives: one with wax foundation contaminated with pesticide and the other having no foundation. If the 2 hives forage on the same flowers, the one without foundation will have a net lower concentration of pesticides than the one that started with contaminated wax.
And it's not just about the field pesticides. There are beekeeper applied pesticides in that wax also. I don't apply those pesticides and I don't want them in the hive.
"Secondly, your non-use of foundations in frames causes the bees to consume more time on building the foundation and less time collecting honey." -- Can you show me a study that proves it takes more time to build comb without foundation or that it distracts the bees from doing other things? There is a division of labor within a hive. The bees that are building comb are not the right age to be out foraging. They are too young. Likewise, the foragers are too old to be of any use in building comb. Their wax glands are less active. So wax production and comb building goes parallel with nectar gathering. It's not one or the other.
Yes, there is some cost in terms of nectar/honey storage due to converting that resource into wax. I only know of one study that tried to measure that, but it's a very flawed study and didn't take all variables into account. So it's really not a known quantity. But to me the cost is negligible compared to the benefit. I don't sell honey, so my livelihood doesn't depend on it. I can afford a small percentage of honey lost to wax production. The bees are still able to build comb and store up enough honey for winter, so that's not an issue. Besides, I value the wax more than the honey. And if the wax I'm chewing, or using in cosmetics, or burning as a candle has less pesticide in it, then that's very worth it to me.
"At the end of the day bees will do their own thing..." -- That's very true. I've seen my friends' hives that use foundation and I've seen the amount of messy drone burr comb the bees put between frames and boxes and make a mess of things. I don't get any of that messy burr comb. Bees have a natural instinct to raise drones. They'll make it happen. I give them the space to do this and they don't make a mess of the hive.
TheBeeVlog Thanks for your well considered responce. I respect your position. Cheers
Im using stodoys plans to make it and I do it already :)
It takes too Long..... you’re too slow.