Dropping Off of Hoot
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มี.ค. 2019
- I explain the mechanics behind dropping off of Hoot the owl.
To summarize, when you drop off of Hoot, you resume the speed you had before the flight and move at an angle equal to Hoot’s angle reflected about angle 0x2000.
Thanks to bad_boot decompiling the Hoot code, and thanks to Revo for teaching me how to edit the code to make a ROM hack. - เกม
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SOUND_MARIO_UH is the best variable name ever created.
hello operator i'd like to report an uh moment
i laughed so hard when i saw that
Late, but it's a define not a variable
@@mmmmmmmmmmmmm enum
YAHOO. UH. EEYUH. WAAAAH. GAHAHAHAHAHA. HOOUH.
"Lay off the pasta, Mario!" - Hoot, 1996
more like mushrooms -amirite-
Pain
Mario gameplay: I sleep
File selection music: I wake
PU-maps: *I rise*
Looking at game code: *_NEXT LEVEL LEARNING_*
amazing learn
*HSC = Hoot Speed Conservation*
*Get out*
Also goes for Horizontal Speed Conservation.
The answer to my frustrations as a kid. Thanks pannen. Great video!
I love that absolute worst case scenario demonstration of what can go wrong when dropping from Hoot.
I have discovered pannenkoek long ago already, but the fact that he is still playing and making videos about super mario 64 amazes me, that's just awesome, keep it up pannenkoek!
Same. The videos are always interesting
The angle inversion may have been intended to cause the camera to orbit Hoot instead of always follow from behind. Assuming the camera tries to point in the direction that Mario is facing, the angle inversion would make the camera behavior a lot more scenic by moving around in a seemingly random way, instead of only focusing on where Hoot was flying.
Setting the Mario's visual angle to be his actual angle also has the effect of slightly improving the camera while being carried by Hoot.
Always wondered why I got launched so often. Thanks, Pannen.
The way Mario rotates during the hacked segment actually looks pretty good, and would be a great indicator to where to aim since you'd just wait for Mario to line up! A shame the actual game isn't like that.
any of you romhackers who know how to do the good shit-- you know what it is
i will never get bored with these videos over analyzing small mechanics in a 23 year old game i dont even have
I noticed that Mario turned the wrong way a while ago while I was playing with STROOP, and it made everything make so much more sense. Good to see that you decided to make a video about it to explain it in-depth and help everyone else who was confused.
Am I the only one who didn't know he was called Hoot?
You know, I don't think I've ever seen a BLJ in a Pannenkoek video before weirdly enough.
Probably because it requires an A-press.
There were like 5 BLJs in the 'DDD painting moving back' video which was pretty recent. A more well known one could be in the watch for rolling rocks video where he explains about PUs
The Walls, Floors and Ceilings trilogy have some BLJs to illustrate certain properties too
@@violetasuklevska9074 The watch for rolling rocks had no BLJs, he got the speed from the gate
@@Kyara7 I was talking about the bit where he BLJd in BoB
Thank you for clearing this up! Letting go of hoot was always a frustrating experience and this awful code explains it very well. No wonder I prefered to jump into the cage from the top of the fortress tower.
0:22 ouch, thats hurts xD
I can't tell you how frustrating dropping off that owl has been to me in speed runs... thank you for this friend, this is super helpful
This may have been explained in a different video, but what's the difference between Mario's x- and y-coordinate speed and his horizontal speed?
not 100% sure but i believe his horizontal speed dictates his xyz,
so maybe his horizontal speed is what is built up, and when it gets applied to the xyz speeds which in turn reduces horizontal speed when friction/collision is involved.
When mario goes on hoot, his horizontal speed isn't changed, but his xyz is being overridden, so when mario gets off hoot the horizontal speed is put back into effect on the xyz.
Maybe a more lamen term to it would be xyz speed is what mario is currently dealing with, and horizontal speed is stored speed which is applied unless mario geometry prevents it.
Now I could be totally wrong here but thats my guess to the answer to your question xD
@@mel_arky I believe it may actually be the opposite because if you land for only 1 frame and then go off of the edge of a platform you conserve your horizontal speed, but if you land for 2 frames or more you stop dead if you're holding neutral and start walking if your not.
@@mel_arky That's kinda what I was thinking, almost like horizontal speed is Mario's momentum or potential speed on the horizontal plane
He made a video explaining this
Horizontal speed is Mario's speed moving forward including angles, while x-, y-, and z-coordinate speeds are Mario's speed in the pure x, y, and z directions. So if Mario is moving diagonally (relative to the world, not the camera) across a flat surface at a horizontal speed of 5, he has coordinate speeds of 4, 3, and 0 for each of the coordinate directions.
The coordinate speeds and the horizontal speed can be derived directly from each other (via basic trigonometry/the Pythagorean theorem) but for some reason the game keeps track of them separately. More specifically, it either uses horizontal speed or it uses the coordinate speeds, while keeping the unused one updated in the background.
But sometimes the unused speed is *not* updated and retains an old value, which Mario goes back to when he switches what speed he's using. And that's what happened here.
Now we can finally answer the question of "Where are we dropping, boys?"
Damn!!! Now I see why I always had so much trouble as a kid when I tried to get the caged star! Thank Pannen!
This is why you always bring a parachute
Mario is an epic gamer, he needs no parachute 😎😎😎
You again?
@Ryan Swaggert people who stomped Mario's head in a wall or did the ground pound while falling
omg its the guy who always gets one of the top comments on memetastics vids and hes commenting on a pannen vid
Why do i keep finding you everywhere
This is up there with the manta rings for, "I knew I wasn't crazy!! This game is rigged!"
Hoot is literally the most polite bird ever. Their reaction to being critically deprived of sleep is just "Hey you want a free ride?"
* grabs star *
"WAAAAH"
Good thing this is now fully explained. I found out the reverse release momentum on my own but I never knew about keeping your horizontal speed, that explains why sometimes I overshot the cage and sometimes I got it just right as a kid. Thanks for sharing!
... Sadly this also means that people might find their way to make this becoming a feature in Kaizo-hacks. Help.
Releasing my grip on Hoot's talons? Finally a pannen video I can do myself.
It looks like an obvious mistake that they "fixed" by making his visual angle match the owl so it wouldn't look buggy and strange like in the hacked "real angle" segment.
I actually think it looks fine, kinda like mario is just barely holding on.
This has actually been bothering me for a very long time, thanks for the information!!
This is a video I feel like we've needed for a long time. Like that manta ray video with the rings.
Some of the decisions they made when designing this game are strange. Like the star spawn for Big Boo on the Balcony.
I find your videos very comfy and wholesome for some weird reason
Thanks!! Exceptional explanation. Answered every question i had about hoot, which i couldn't find anywhere else.
So you have discovered another interesting stuff during WF No Joystick videos! Also it is satisfying to see sm64 in code form. I always love your videos. Cheers!
This is why it's great to be a subscriber to an actually decent channel.
Without the context this video comes out of nowhere, but with the context of the last few days of no joystick challenges this most likely came from "Fucking god dammit, it missed again why?!" followed by a furious look into the code to discover why so that things could be changed to make it work.
Blew my mind when I realised that after thinking "Oh hey it's an explanation video again, sweet!"
countdown for the trollhack that requires a blj into a hoot to complete the level
This has been bugging me so much! I thought it was me going crazy! Thanks for the video!
i'm impressed that you got the actual code for this.
Your videos are like a scientific journal for SM64, they really get me wondering about what the developers were thinking, and how hypothetical future peoples will look on anything I program.
Thanks to this video I know why it was difficult getting the star that requires the owl!
Seeing that code explained is fascinating
I would always wait until I was low enough because of this, but it's cool to see it explained like this.
Devs: "Let's set Mario's speed vector to 0 for every frame he grabs onto the owl. We wouldn't want him to get flung off at the speed of light every time he lets go, would we?"
BLJ: "Oh dear, GRACIOUS NO! It would be a SHAME if some sort of horizontal momentum based exploit changed the variables of Mario's speed vector! One that, perhaps, SIMULTANEOUSLY exploited a developer oversight that unaccounted for the event of Mario's horizontal speed vector being directed backwards, THAT ALSO happened to be ungovererned by Mario's X, Y, and Z variables being set to 0!"
Nerd
Anti nerd
Have you ever BLJ’d so hard you launch even after you grab an owl? This man has lol
Ooh, this was a very nice technical video! Keep up the great work :D
so is that recreated source code or did you actually decompile the game? never seen mario 64 source code like that, ever
The game was written in C (with the exception of the mario head subsystem which uses prestandard C++) and compiled with the IRIX 5.3 cc compiler.
Source: Discovered the compiler + settings that sm64 code used.
There actually is a partial disassembly of the game, but last I checked it was being done privately out of fear that Nintendo would find it and file a C&D. I wouldn't be surprised if the people working on it gave Pannen access to the repo so he could look through the code.
The full game has been decomped, yes.
*Manually* decompiled. IIRC, it was decompiled to assembly or smth, and the decomp team (including bad boot and revo) re-added in all the variable names and such.
bad_boot from ABC crew is a reverse engineer. I would not be surprised if he did this.
Please do more videos like this where you look at the code if possible I love it!
Awesome video btw, love deconstruction and interpretation of the inner code.
Thanks to this video, Hoot is finally useful for me.
It always felt awkward to me, even 15 years ago. This explains a lot. Thanks!
This explains so much! Thanks for this explanation!
Now don't you think it feels weird seeing pannen using a joystick
Holy crap the uploads are nuts!
Couldn't find the answer in stackoverflow, thanks pannen!
This was very informative!
Wow. This explains everything. That owl is so hard lol
Ah yes, my favorite OC, Hoot The Owl.
decomp finally kicks in
Now i can understand whats going on here, thank you!
Oh boy here comes the decomp videos, guys
We used to use the cannon to get that star because we didn't know Hoot existed, so this was never an issue
So many uploads :o
love seeing the code
Thanks, bad_hoot.
This guy's still alive :0
owls were not harmed in the making of this video
Mario definitely was.
Is it possible to post the decompiled mario 64 code or make a video on how to decompile it and recompile it after making changes? Or are changes made directly to the binary and there is no way to recompile it from the decompiled code? I would like to get into making ROM hacks and being able to make changes in the C source instead of hex editing the binary would make it incredibly easy.
N64 code isn't cross compatible with C. If you were to disassemble SM64's code, you'd get a bunch of uncommented machine language (MIPS Assembly) and you'd have to manually port the game line by line to C. C compilers for N64 exist, but it's a one way street (C -> MIPS only).
They're decompiling it as we speak. This video is a direct result of the decomp happening. I don't know what language it is in though
The entire code will be dumped publicly in C in a few months.
@@forple8930 This is misleading. About a year ago, I did a bunch of research and found what compiler mario 64 uses (hint: IRIX 5.3 compiler). Turns out the developers left the code unoptimized via a debug flag that turns off all compiler optimizations, so we were able to just write out the original matching C (you still lose names and comments which is why not all of the shown function has understandable names like func_myAddress). When compiled with the original compiler, it matches the retail ROM. So the code shown is correct.
...I'm sorry for being a bumble, but this appears considerably similar to Javascript to me. Are Javascript and C similar?
This game has so many of these errors. It’s really interesting.
1:10 Approved by Simpleflips 👌
Evan Blenkinsopp simBLJ simBLJ simBLJ
Simpleflips looks like this dude I went to school with who tried bullying me. He mistook my silence for intimidation until one day I roasted him in front of all his friends so badly that they just stopped hanging out with him over time.
Apparently he was going through some shit at home, and being an asshole to me and some others was his way of coping with that. But the loss of his friends combined with the embarrassment of being roasted in from of everyone pushed him off the deep end, and he tried to kill himself during summer break.
He tried telling me this as if this was supposed to make me feel sorry for him, and the idea of that made me angry. So I told him to fuck off. I didn't see him again after that, but apparently he just switched to home school because the thought of going back to pubic school after the roast would give him panic attacks. 😂
TL;DR Simpleflips looks like a dude I went to school with who tried bullying me and then attempted suicide. 😂
Is your pfp meant to resemble a bisexual pride flag?
Who else didn't know that Hoot was even in the game during their first playthrough as a kid, so they just kept trying to get the Flying Cage star by firing Mario out of the cannon across the level and hoping?
Somehow it feels like I just learned useful information. I've never played SM64...
Well that explains why it never seemed to push me far when I let go, I always stared my jump right under Hoot.
I love your movies
My guess: someone decided to have Mario facing backwards when riding Hoot, as a neat little effect. Someone else decided to have Mario facing forward while riding Hoot, looked at the code, wasn't sure what the angle thing was for and decided to change only the visuals to be safe. Then the whole thing slipped through QA.
Between this and the manta rings I'm wondering if Nintendo really tested most of the gimmicks...
0:22
Damn, my nigga Mario got fucked up. 😂👌
Fire the man who wrote that code.
That was so not intentional. guy halfass attempts to speed=0 and gives up without even testing, then screws the angle up but "fixes" mario's facing angle so his boss won't notice lol
Am i the only one not being notified of pannen's new videos??
I always got that star using the cannon.
I always thought I was just bad at letting go of the owl. I don't feel so bad now!
Pannenko is having a posting jamboree
Years of frustration explained.
learn something everyday!
That's why I always use the cannon to get that star.
I believe this was fixed for the DS version.
DylanDude yeah, i was gonna say that seems to be the case
of course iirc 64ds is mostly rewritten from scratch so
Yeah and cage is easier to reach because its bigger
Since the Owl is not necessary to get any star, I think it makes sense that the devs made using it so "random" that nobody would rely on it.
Looking at the game code itself? Pog
I would love for pannen to do a live stream one day doing the no joystick runs and stuff
I can almost guarantee that pannen branching out creatively to get stars without the joystick is going to result in new things discovered about the game, new skips, and will bring the 120 star A Press run down to zero
I never really understood it too. Now I do just a tiny bit more.
Is this why letting go of hoot and re-grabbing him changes Mario's angle in no Joystick runs?
lol Mario screaming at the end.
Waiting to see a a hack that uses the momentum physics of Hoot
I haven’t seen a new pannen explanation vid in a while.
0:21 That's what Mario gets for disturbing Hoot's sleep
Also, sick music sync at 0:22
1:20 top 10 anime betrayals
I had no idea!
Look at this Mario grabbing on a hoot.
(made by wall kick into the cage group)
Imagine if simpleflips couldn't do it.
(made by slide atop the fortress group)
Can you address why the fog disappears after the first star in Jolly Roger Bay (and doesn't reappear even when replaying the first star)? Flag oversight? Intentional? Tied to something else? This has interested me ever since learning of it.
Damn these new videos in dark mode
A whole video on an Owl? Huh, *hoo* would have known?
Booooo
@@Varooooooom Hooooo
booooo
Looks like your audience just doesn't give a hoot!
Seeking attention