I was right there with nightsky with the Zack and cloud interaction idk how people didn’t see that coming I was only surprised they did it here and not in part 3
And as far the lifestream sword I agree with that as well, did nobody play KH3 remember when Sora and Riku combined their keyblades and did an ultimate slash, you think cloud and Zack WONT do the same lol
NSP, how's that Maechen Mt. Gagazet lore sinking in? Glad to watch you and ProfNoctis have a good talk! I did not know about the significance of the symbols used in the Shinra logo. That is awesome! You mentioned Omnislash at one point. What if Cloud hands off his Buster Sword with the Black Materia inside it, and Zack gives Cloud his own during the memory sequence. Imagine if Zack's presence isn't shown during the final Omnislash, but instead Cloud's Buster Sword bursts out of Sephiroth as the Fusion Sword. Maybe the last thing we get is Cloud reaching up to Aerith's hand with the Clear/Black/White Materia in his own. Always glad to hear your thoughts, brother!
This was my favorite interview yet. I'm going to be listening to this conversation again and again. To reinforce the context Ryan provided: the two Kanji for Shinra are God and Snare/Net. This reinforces the idea that the lifestream is "God" and that Shinra is attempting to subjugate God to man's will. Great, great interview, gents. Edit: typos
That quick discussion about ff amvs brought me back. I used to watch FFX amvs for HOURS after I got back from elementary school. That was wayyy before it would become one of my favorite games. ❤
NSP is speaking my language talking about diving into emo culture along with Advent Children! For me it was spiky black hair, learning to play the drums, and black DC skate shoes. Much love to all of y'all!
Love watching this episode with NSP! He's been a creator in this community I have really liked and respected for many years who treats folks with dignity regardless of numbers or social status. You don't always see that very often and he deserves all the success he gets! I'm still quite early in the video but I'm so excited for this conversation!!
This is a really great format you've got going on here. I like how it's a little different than the other podcasts and brings out a lot of discussion we might not normally hear. Really awesome stuff and looking forward to more. NSP is so right that Computer Science has a really tough curriculum at most colleges. I got a 4 year Softare Engineering degree, and the 2nd year into it, I was starting to realize I didn't think I'd be happy doing that for the rest of my life. Worked 7 years in the industry and still trying to figure out what I want to do next. I actually did get really into music for 15+ years before that as a drummer in rock bands. Music and Final Fantasy are something I've always felt passionate about.
I'm grateful for you saying that. We really wanted to celebrate the cool stuff people were doing, in addition to giving people the platform to establish their credibility before offering their opinions. It's been so so cool.
I love it. This discussion brings up the exact issue FFVII Remake has to tackle, which is death and the handling of it. NSP is right about the potential problems with bringing Zack back (the dead should be allowed to die), but I think this issue of death being treated flippantly was truly created because of the compilation. In Advent Children, Aerith and Zack make multiple appearances, Sephiroth is brought back, and even Rufus turned out to be alive after looking like he died near the end of OG FFVII. Crisis Core has Genesis die, then nevermind he's still alive in the background. Even Dirge brings back Hojo. In other words, long before this current trilogy, the compilation made death a lot less meaningful. To be clear I don't have any particular issues with Aerith talking to Cloud in AC, but her death inherently means a lot less if she can still communicate with him and others from the afterlife whenever she wants to. It no longer feels like we've lost her. Because of all this I feel Part 3 and this Remake trilogy as a whole will offer a solution to this problem and make death more meaningful again. Yet, I can only speculate how they will actually do this.
I agree with all of this. I don’t mind what they’ve been doing in this trilogy, simply because I’m curious on how they land this plane and use this new narrative device to deliver the core themes of the story. No sequence in gaming is more amazing to me than the Lifestream sequence. I loved what they did with Tifa and Gongaga, so I have a lot of hope for part 3. If everything that they’ve done up until now was just to make the payoff worth it, then I’ll be satisfied. I’m okay with Aerith and Zack having a light presence through the Lifestream at the end of the story, but they need to eventually fade away, Cloud accept his loss, but move on with his life.
That 2015 trailer, for me was SO unexpected. It caught me completely off-guard and I just remember ending up in tears on the floor of my living room, on my knees shaking my fists to the heavens crying "Yes! Yes! Yes!" lol.
When Ryan said that the biggest ego is that of a man who thinks he is a god. It makes me think that if the message behind this trilogy is that man cannot do anything about fate and inevitable death. I want to say that so far they have failed to convey this message, that they contradict themselves with all the things that happen in the compilation like Sephiroth back in AC, Hojo back in Dirge, Genesis with Minerva, Barret with the Whispers the Whispers who save the group several times in Remake, Tifa who without leaving unscathed with the armed whale and especially that it is too late to go back and try to treat death in a serious manner especially when the deaths in question interacts with living people, I want to say what's the point of killing a character if it's to continue showing them afterwards. Or if all this just leads to Cloud accepting Aerith's death instead of accepting it thanks to her in AC that's not really satisfying. Same if it leads to the fact that this time humanity no longer disappears 500 years later, I would say that as someone who played the original I find this disappointing. I know that a lot of people who have never played the original game know the main outline of the story, that said I don't think that among the majority of these people many know the thing about 500 years later. So if I try to put myself in the place of someone who has never played the original game, never played one of the many games in the compilation, never seen AC or read one of the novels, I honestly say to myself Personally, I'm really not sure that they will appreciate this as a possible result. I would also like to come back to what Clark said in one of the previous episodes regarding the last unicorn thing which if I understood correctly talks about the fact that it sends a stronger message of seeing the last member of a dying species. , like Aerith who is half Cetra. If I say no stupidity it is true that at the time of the release of the original the media did not often highlight the protection of the environment and species in danger of extinction, just like talking about health mental through the character of Cloud and I think that at the time it was a very good way to convey a message. That said as we approach the 30th anniversary of FF7 I would find it great if the trilogy decided to reflect the changes that have taken place for the better in the real world all as they did at the time through the original game to speak of preoccupying subjects of the time. Because even if these problems are more or less still relevant today, I have the impression that nowadays people care much more about the environment, about species in danger of extinction, about mental health and that they has had progress since the days of the original. In short, I also wanted to thank you for your videos which are always pleasant to listen to and watch, I hope that all is well in your projects and I will continue to follow you. PS: sorry if my English is poor
i really appreciate you taking the time to say all this. I think you are totally correct. The issues this trilogy seems to be addressing are profound, and I think it's an interesting way to think about common issues. I do wonder if they go for the same messages as in 1997 whether it will work for people the same way it did back then. Again, thanks so much for your comment, and for your support!
Man, it's been a wild ride full of ups and downs and I am grateful to have found your channel and FB group and can call you a friend. You are still an inspiration! Stand tall my friend. You've earned it!
Amazing episode. So funny NSP's reasoning for learning japanese is just like me...just wanted to learn another language forever, feel like we all should, love japanese culture, so I started duolingo 11 months ago and it's been such a brilliant experience.
Every time I thought we hit the peak of this conversation the next amazing topic popped up with thoughts and feelings I can very much relate to. I could never call myself a millennial because I don't share a lot of things with the late 90s kids, but I can't call myself gen X either... can we just establish a Generation AMV? That would fit me well 🖤
Loving these podcasts, you do a great job incorporating education and philosophy with video games that always make it interesting to listen to. Keep it up!
Omg the Edios PC port! I played on PlayStation first. But I have the OG PC port in box. The first port was “interesting” all the music was midi. Glad NSP stuck with it.
One of the things that just occurred to me listening to this on the section discussing the translation of Cloud saying “see them there” vs “see her there”, is that there’s a large gap in Cloud’s emotional development that the OG doesn’t properly examine. If we think about the sequence of events: - Sephiroth destroys Cloud’s hometown and kills his mother - Cloud “kills” Sephiroth - Cloud is experimented on almost immediately by Hojo - Cloud loses 5 years of his life - Cloud is dragged around by Zack and is a tomato - Cloud witnesses Zack die (debatable as to what he actually sees here), and then comes to - you play the first half of FF7 where Cloud doesn’t know who he is, though he does seem to know sephiroth killed his mother - Aerith dies - Cloud essentially fulfills his purpose as a puppet and basically is the greatest threat to the planet and leaves the world in its sorry state - he goes into his coma and then tifa saves him He has no real time here to process anything. At best he comes to term with Aerith’s death, and he mostly is thinking about her. But he also becomes the hero, defeats Sephiroth, and is like “let’s mosey”. However, I’d love to see in part 3 in the lifestream sequence Cloud getting to process what happens to his mom, and maybe even get to talk to her in the lifestream. Not to mention everyone in his hometown (not that he was close to anyone, but you know he’s still hurt by it). There’s so much they can do with the lifestream sequence. I hope it’s like 4 hours long honestly 😂
Great discussion. There are so many interesting topic in this, and reminds me so much of what was happening during the time of FF7 & FF7 Remake. I remember watching FF7A & The Matrix, and the whole emo culture thing and wondering if they are all kind of rubbing off each other. For the FF7 Remake, I remember at 1st feeling not liking it like NSP, and also feel uneasy. Because Star War The Last Jedi & Rise of Skywalker came out during that time and essentially kill the SW franchise for me & a lot of SW fans, and I was wondering if SE will kill the FF7 franchise for me as well. However, after watching the ending again and some contemplation, I convinced myself that Zack is still dead, and all they were showing us was him travelling the lifestream or some crazy stuff like that. And then I saw a ton of different interpretations & theories from Max & Philip etc, that convinced me that they are setting stuff up,whatever it is, for part 2 & 3, unlike SW franchise. Then after watching & reading some developers & VAs interviews, I can feel their love for FF7. That just eased my concerns and made me look forward to part 2 even more. Anyway it was a wild ride LOL.
Nah, he’s not. He had major critiques of the first game, and he certainly warmed up to it, but rebirth really helped change his mind retroactively. He’s very positive on the remake trilogy- but has some real reservations about the ending, as you’ll hear in the interview
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Translate to english took off a few O's
I was right there with nightsky with the Zack and cloud interaction idk how people didn’t see that coming I was only surprised they did it here and not in part 3
And as far the lifestream sword I agree with that as well, did nobody play KH3 remember when Sora and Riku combined their keyblades and did an ultimate slash, you think cloud and Zack WONT do the same lol
NSP, how's that Maechen Mt. Gagazet lore sinking in? Glad to watch you and ProfNoctis have a good talk! I did not know about the significance of the symbols used in the Shinra logo. That is awesome! You mentioned Omnislash at one point. What if Cloud hands off his Buster Sword with the Black Materia inside it, and Zack gives Cloud his own during the memory sequence. Imagine if Zack's presence isn't shown during the final Omnislash, but instead Cloud's Buster Sword bursts out of Sephiroth as the Fusion Sword. Maybe the last thing we get is Cloud reaching up to Aerith's hand with the Clear/Black/White Materia in his own. Always glad to hear your thoughts, brother!
shout out to you professor. bringing the community together one lecture at a time
@@premsarin9866 just excited so many different people wanted to come together for this!
This was my favorite interview yet. I'm going to be listening to this conversation again and again.
To reinforce the context Ryan provided: the two Kanji for Shinra are God and Snare/Net. This reinforces the idea that the lifestream is "God" and that Shinra is attempting to subjugate God to man's will.
Great, great interview, gents.
Edit: typos
Really appreciate you saying this. Means a ton to us.
also, absolutely spectacular comparison
@@profnoctis 🙏
That quick discussion about ff amvs brought me back. I used to watch FFX amvs for HOURS after I got back from elementary school. That was wayyy before it would become one of my favorite games. ❤
it's a canon experience for us all of a certain age lol
Ryan was cooking in a way i never seen; great breakdowns and great questions; really good questions
Thank you! That really means a lot. Ryan absolutely crushed this!
NSP is speaking my language talking about diving into emo culture along with Advent Children! For me it was spiky black hair, learning to play the drums, and black DC skate shoes. Much love to all of y'all!
Night Sky Chemical Romance is peak
Love watching this episode with NSP! He's been a creator in this community I have really liked and respected for many years who treats folks with dignity regardless of numbers or social status. You don't always see that very often and he deserves all the success he gets!
I'm still quite early in the video but I'm so excited for this conversation!!
Thanks! This was such a delightful conversation
This is a really great format you've got going on here. I like how it's a little different than the other podcasts and brings out a lot of discussion we might not normally hear. Really awesome stuff and looking forward to more.
NSP is so right that Computer Science has a really tough curriculum at most colleges. I got a 4 year Softare Engineering degree, and the 2nd year into it, I was starting to realize I didn't think I'd be happy doing that for the rest of my life. Worked 7 years in the industry and still trying to figure out what I want to do next.
I actually did get really into music for 15+ years before that as a drummer in rock bands. Music and Final Fantasy are something I've always felt passionate about.
I'm grateful for you saying that. We really wanted to celebrate the cool stuff people were doing, in addition to giving people the platform to establish their credibility before offering their opinions. It's been so so cool.
OH man, *THE*NightSkyPrince. What a treat.
It was a huge treat for me. I was kinda geeking out inside!
“What can be unmade.” Final Fantasy VII Unmake. Jokes aside, this chat was 10/10. One of the best.
Dude thank you so so much. :)
I love it. This discussion brings up the exact issue FFVII Remake has to tackle, which is death and the handling of it. NSP is right about the potential problems with bringing Zack back (the dead should be allowed to die), but I think this issue of death being treated flippantly was truly created because of the compilation. In Advent Children, Aerith and Zack make multiple appearances, Sephiroth is brought back, and even Rufus turned out to be alive after looking like he died near the end of OG FFVII. Crisis Core has Genesis die, then nevermind he's still alive in the background. Even Dirge brings back Hojo.
In other words, long before this current trilogy, the compilation made death a lot less meaningful. To be clear I don't have any particular issues with Aerith talking to Cloud in AC, but her death inherently means a lot less if she can still communicate with him and others from the afterlife whenever she wants to. It no longer feels like we've lost her. Because of all this I feel Part 3 and this Remake trilogy as a whole will offer a solution to this problem and make death more meaningful again. Yet, I can only speculate how they will actually do this.
I agree with all of this. I don’t mind what they’ve been doing in this trilogy, simply because I’m curious on how they land this plane and use this new narrative device to deliver the core themes of the story.
No sequence in gaming is more amazing to me than the Lifestream sequence. I loved what they did with Tifa and Gongaga, so I have a lot of hope for part 3.
If everything that they’ve done up until now was just to make the payoff worth it, then I’ll be satisfied. I’m okay with Aerith and Zack having a light presence through the Lifestream at the end of the story, but they need to eventually fade away, Cloud accept his loss, but move on with his life.
this, this, this. What a great point. They've played/toyed with death in so, so many ways. I think this is key to remember.
I think acceptance is the big theme of part 3. for sure.
That 2015 trailer, for me was SO unexpected. It caught me completely off-guard and I just remember ending up in tears on the floor of my living room, on my knees shaking my fists to the heavens crying "Yes! Yes! Yes!" lol.
It was a canon experience
When Ryan said that the biggest ego is that of a man who thinks he is a god.
It makes me think that if the message behind this trilogy is that man cannot do anything about fate and inevitable death.
I want to say that so far they have failed to convey this message, that they contradict themselves with all the things that happen in the compilation like Sephiroth back in AC, Hojo back in Dirge, Genesis with Minerva, Barret with the Whispers the Whispers who save the group several times in Remake, Tifa who without leaving unscathed with the armed whale and especially that it is too late to go back and try to treat death in a serious manner especially when the deaths in question interacts with living people, I want to say what's the point of killing a character if it's to continue showing them afterwards.
Or if all this just leads to Cloud accepting Aerith's death instead of accepting it thanks to her in AC that's not really satisfying.
Same if it leads to the fact that this time humanity no longer disappears 500 years later, I would say that as someone who played the original I find this disappointing.
I know that a lot of people who have never played the original game know the main outline of the story, that said I don't think that among the majority of these people many know the thing about 500 years later.
So if I try to put myself in the place of someone who has never played the original game, never played one of the many games in the compilation, never seen AC or read one of the novels, I honestly say to myself Personally, I'm really not sure that they will appreciate this as a possible result.
I would also like to come back to what Clark said in one of the previous episodes regarding the last unicorn thing which if I understood correctly talks about the fact that it sends a stronger message of seeing the last member of a dying species. , like Aerith who is half Cetra.
If I say no stupidity it is true that at the time of the release of the original the media did not often highlight the protection of the environment and species in danger of extinction, just like talking about health mental through the character of Cloud and I think that at the time it was a very good way to convey a message.
That said as we approach the 30th anniversary of FF7 I would find it great if the trilogy decided to reflect the changes that have taken place for the better in the real world all as they did at the time through the original game to speak of preoccupying subjects of the time.
Because even if these problems are more or less still relevant today, I have the impression that nowadays people care much more about the environment, about species in danger of extinction, about mental health and that they has had progress since the days of the original.
In short, I also wanted to thank you for your videos which are always pleasant to listen to and watch, I hope that all is well in your projects and I will continue to follow you.
PS: sorry if my English is poor
i really appreciate you taking the time to say all this. I think you are totally correct. The issues this trilogy seems to be addressing are profound, and I think it's an interesting way to think about common issues. I do wonder if they go for the same messages as in 1997 whether it will work for people the same way it did back then.
Again, thanks so much for your comment, and for your support!
Great conversation all round.
Night sky had some great insights and I love how you called each one out to let it sink in.
He had great points that I wanted to really elevate
Man, it's been a wild ride full of ups and downs and I am grateful to have found your channel and FB group and can call you a friend. You are still an inspiration! Stand tall my friend. You've earned it!
Thank you my friend!
Ryan was a fellow emo? _My man_ 🖤
Yup. What an era
You got one of my favorite dudes on again - looking forward to it. 🎉
This was a great one, for sure. Thanks for watching!
WHOOAAA TWO OF MY FAVS!!!!
Back at ya
Night Sky Prince is the best much love for you man!
@@stefawn_v he’s so cool
NSP brining in Taoism philosophy stuff is another interesting angle or lens to look at FF7. This is great.
he really brought the spice didn't he? Excellent research on his part.
Great material as usual!!❤❤❤❤ My first experience with FFVII was also the 1998 PC port version. Didn't have a PS1 at the time.
Thanks so much! Yeah, so many people started out on pc
Amazing episode. So funny NSP's reasoning for learning japanese is just like me...just wanted to learn another language forever, feel like we all should, love japanese culture, so I started duolingo 11 months ago and it's been such a brilliant experience.
How cool is that?? I need to study it someday
This convo is 🔥
Thanks!
This was a great discussion!
Thank you!
Absolutely love these interviews the prespective and knowledge is truly awesome and entertaining to hear 😊
I’m so glad! They’ve been so interesting to host
Every time I thought we hit the peak of this conversation the next amazing topic popped up with thoughts and feelings I can very much relate to. I could never call myself a millennial because I don't share a lot of things with the late 90s kids, but I can't call myself gen X either... can we just establish a Generation AMV? That would fit me well 🖤
bring it back, please!
Loving these podcasts, you do a great job incorporating education and philosophy with video games that always make it interesting to listen to. Keep it up!
@@Omnicloudx13 it means a ton to hear you say that. Thank you! We’ll do our best!
Omg the Edios PC port! I played on PlayStation first. But I have the OG PC port in box. The first port was “interesting” all the music was midi. Glad NSP stuck with it.
honestly, a miracle that he did!
❤❤❤❤
Hearts for the algorithm!
Thank you friend!
"Modern man can't see God because he won't look low enough."
-NSP, 2024
Banger line. Absolute legend
One of the things that just occurred to me listening to this on the section discussing the translation of Cloud saying “see them there” vs “see her there”, is that there’s a large gap in Cloud’s emotional development that the OG doesn’t properly examine.
If we think about the sequence of events:
- Sephiroth destroys Cloud’s hometown and kills his mother
- Cloud “kills” Sephiroth
- Cloud is experimented on almost immediately by Hojo
- Cloud loses 5 years of his life
- Cloud is dragged around by Zack and is a tomato
- Cloud witnesses Zack die (debatable as to what he actually sees here), and then comes to
- you play the first half of FF7 where Cloud doesn’t know who he is, though he does seem to know sephiroth killed his mother
- Aerith dies
- Cloud essentially fulfills his purpose as a puppet and basically is the greatest threat to the planet and leaves the world in its sorry state
- he goes into his coma and then tifa saves him
He has no real time here to process anything. At best he comes to term with Aerith’s death, and he mostly is thinking about her. But he also becomes the hero, defeats Sephiroth, and is like “let’s mosey”.
However, I’d love to see in part 3 in the lifestream sequence Cloud getting to process what happens to his mom, and maybe even get to talk to her in the lifestream. Not to mention everyone in his hometown (not that he was close to anyone, but you know he’s still hurt by it).
There’s so much they can do with the lifestream sequence. I hope it’s like 4 hours long honestly 😂
They've built up so much, we NEED that 4 hour sequence lol
I’d love to see Max on here.
That'd be fun, wouldn't it. That guy has no clue who I am LOL
Pay attention square enix; come on now …
Great discussion. There are so many interesting topic in this, and reminds me so much of what was happening during the time of FF7 & FF7 Remake. I remember watching FF7A & The Matrix, and the whole emo culture thing and wondering if they are all kind of rubbing off each other. For the FF7 Remake, I remember at 1st feeling not liking it like NSP, and also feel uneasy. Because Star War The Last Jedi & Rise of Skywalker came out during that time and essentially kill the SW franchise for me & a lot of SW fans, and I was wondering if SE will kill the FF7 franchise for me as well. However, after watching the ending again and some contemplation, I convinced myself that Zack is still dead, and all they were showing us was him travelling the lifestream or some crazy stuff like that. And then I saw a ton of different interpretations & theories from Max & Philip etc, that convinced me that they are setting stuff up,whatever it is, for part 2 & 3, unlike SW franchise. Then after watching & reading some developers & VAs interviews, I can feel their love for FF7. That just eased my concerns and made me look forward to part 2 even more. Anyway it was a wild ride LOL.
this is the wildest ride i've ever been on in a story. and i'm 100% here for it.
Is NSP a shill? I stopped watching him bc he was a huge hater of the remake project but now he’s not?
Nah, he’s not. He had major critiques of the first game, and he certainly warmed up to it, but rebirth really helped change his mind retroactively. He’s very positive on the remake trilogy- but has some real reservations about the ending, as you’ll hear in the interview