I like the tempo of this Orchestra in comparison to the tempo of other orchestra performance of This Bach Orchestral suites. Thankyou for these recordings.
честито , много хубава музика ,страхотно изпълнение на Амстердамски оркестър ,много добро дирижира и свири на клавесин Дядо Мраз ,клавесинист и диригент холандски стар евреин Тон Коопман, честито и ниски поклон на него и на всичките му изпълнители и дано да са живи и здрави те досега .Вече много пъти наред пускам всички 4-те оркестрови сюити на маестро и композитор ,славен и прочут Й.С.Бах и пак и още веднъж пак аз ще пускам и слушам тази неповторима и ненадмината божествена и господня музика велика и добра ,душевна и приятна ,читава без свършек в изпълнение на този много добър Амстердамския Бароков оркестър ,все едно космосът праща ни от своите висини на Вселената тази неповторима велика и добра музика, тази култура и почивка за човешките душа и мозък, умът и мисловният процес!Все едно Галактика дирижира и ръководи и ражда по повеление господне тази сюита както и останалите 3-те Оркестрови сюити на незабравимия композитор и диригент ,маестро и художник ,пети евангелист Й.С.Бах !Много благодаря за всички 4-те качени Оркестрови сюити !
From a historical and cultural perspective, playing Baroque music on period instruments is certainly an interesting approach. From a musical perspective, Baroque music (or any other kind of classical music) sounds better on nowadays instruments - they are more agile, their sound is smoother and clearer. I think Bach would have gladly took advantage of a 20th-century-designed trumpet or oboe, had they been available... Ton Koopman and his ABO's Baroque excellence - which I'm a fan of - resides in the style adequance - elegance, rigor, perfect balance - and not in the use of period instruments.
***** Then the question you have to ask yourself is whether Bach would have written the same way for the modern instruments as he did for those available in his time. Or in other words, do we need to make Bach better?
+1brewski2 you completely missed the point. We are not ''making Bach better'' but his music is so resilient and sort of musical Terminator which does not lose its dept whether it is performed with saxophones, string orchestra, choir, full romantic orchestra, string quartet or something else. HIP is bullshit because it confines Bach, and Bach was an innovator as much as he was traditionalist. Karl Richter, Klemperer, Furtwaengler, Muenchinger, Scherchen, Ristenpart... are in terms of depth of understanding Bach high above superficial HIP approach which marks the decadence in understanding of music, decadence that is the mark of all aspects of contemporary art and life.
+1brewski2 Bach was a very good knower of the instruments, and for sure had a sound in mind. Although much of his music is not extremely idiomatic, making it work fairly well on other instruments than designed, pieces like the orchestral suites are written for such a specific ensemble that you may not part from the original sounds to make them come out properly. And you don't need a book for that, it's enough to open the ears!
For me, there's a lot to like with "period" style, with one exception: the valveless trumpet. Very few players can play this instrument cleanly, and somehow the audience is not only expected to excuse the flubs and sour notes of this problematic instrument, but to like them. And let's be clear here - the so-called "Baroque Trumpet" is an invention of the 20th century. The fingered vent holes which are used in place of valves are actually a compromise to make the real baroque trumpet playable to something approaching modern standards. Here's how you can quickly tell the difference between the fake-historical "Baroque Trumpet" and the real thing: is the player using one hand or two? If he holds the trumpet up with just one arm, in a "heroic" stance, that is the trumpet Bach wrote for. So, given that most HIP orchestras are playing Bach on an instrument he didn't write for, can't we all get off this all-or-nothing fixation on the "authenticity" of period instrument orchestras? Now if some genius could just invent a modernized trumpet that had the harmonic qualities of the genuine baroque trumpet and the precision of the valved trumpet....
We ''modernists'' are not ''making Bach better'' but his music is so resilient and sort of musical Terminator which does not lose its dept whether it is performed with saxophones, string orchestra, choir, full romantic orchestra, string quartet or something else. HIP is bullshit because it confines Bach, and Bach was an innovator as much as he was traditionalist. Karl Richter, Klemperer, Furtwaengler, Muenchinger, Scherchen, Ristenpart... are in terms of depth of understanding Bach high above superficial HIP approach which marks the decadence in understanding of music, decadence that is the mark of all aspects of contemporary art and life.
Keep in mind that composers (any of them) wrote the music with a sound in mind, especially the pieces with idiomatic parts. Therefore, Bach hand in his ears the sound of the instruments of his time, and basing himself on this composed the music and formed the ensembles. So, I would invite you to think twice before calling HIP "bullshit". I have in mind the heavy and post romantic performances of Richter, and for sure that's how this music would NOT have sounded at the time. HIP is a way to bring back the ideas of the composer's back, so that the music will sound at its full potential.
Severiano Paoli completely wrong. First of all we could not know for sure what Bach had in mind. Second -there is no possibility to hear Bach's own performances. And third - HIP approach to Bach emphasizes empty roller coaster of insanely superficial fast tempi without any depth to music. HIPs are so stupid and blind to see that Bach's music is so cosmopolite and so complex that you could approach it from any possible angle you like and still it would not lose its beauty. They are, in fact, destroying his music by confining his spirit preserved in his music. They are the small minds who only speculate ''this is how it was performed''. Furtwangler's conducting of the ''Air'' from the 3rd suite is something that puts to shame shallow, superficial and utterly banal and empty approach of his HIP ''colleagues'' who look at Bach from the musical only, and at the same time completely wrong musical perspective, that they in their ''objectivity, a term that is stupid and has no content, are completely blind to the essence of music.
+Sam Peckinpah was a classical composer I'm wondering about something: are you a musician? And are you still living in the 50's? Because it doesn't seem like you've been to many HIP concerts (or just concerts) lately. What you're talking about may have happened at the beginning of the HIP movement, when there was still the need to get rid of the late romantic conventions and rediscover the previous ones, and sometimes wrong ways have been taken. But the world has changed a lot, and many new sources came out. From my personal point of view, I find the interpretations of Furtwangler and Richter funny, but not really interesting; to give you a image: if I tried to read Hungarian, which I don't speak, I would be able to read the words, but neither to pronounce them properly nor understand them (and making other people understand, by consequence).
"Fartwrangler"! That made my day! The rest of your posting is also spot on. Richter was by far the worst of the whole bunch. That man had no understanding of rhythm at all. A bloody metronome would be a better conductor than him.
Grenadier loyal to the king, I'm sorry for my inadequate English. Johann Sebastian Bach's reply to a friend: "Pity that we have to wait for another 230 years before somebody understand my compositions better than myself."
Ton Koopman has enriched our lives immensely. I just find it a pity that he has such an obsession with applying his own extreme tempo to many of the works he performs. His rendition of the opening bars of Bach's h moll suite is the worst I've ever heard. Why???...
He must've been angerred by someone while composing it...?! Pressuring him to finish it up so they etc. Bach was a moody person, if he had a good mood he can make you dance, while if had been tipsy he compses somthing to enterospect or meditate .. In general he plays with the mood ... he can even scare you such with his Toccata where at a certain point you might feel yourself as falling from a skyscraper either pushed from a window or the elevater you are in had plameted down ..... Great composer
Great recording. The immediacy of the sound, I feel like I have a front row seat. A very alive feeling to the music.
I like the tempo of this Orchestra in comparison to the tempo of other orchestra performance of This Bach Orchestral suites. Thankyou for these recordings.
честито , много хубава музика ,страхотно изпълнение на Амстердамски оркестър ,много добро дирижира и свири на клавесин Дядо Мраз ,клавесинист и диригент холандски стар евреин Тон Коопман, честито и ниски поклон на него и на всичките му изпълнители и дано да са живи и здрави те досега .Вече много пъти наред пускам всички 4-те оркестрови сюити на маестро и композитор ,славен и прочут Й.С.Бах и пак и още веднъж пак аз ще пускам и слушам тази неповторима и ненадмината божествена и господня музика велика и добра ,душевна и приятна ,читава без свършек в изпълнение на този много добър Амстердамския Бароков оркестър ,все едно космосът праща ни от своите висини на Вселената тази неповторима велика и добра музика, тази култура и почивка за човешките душа и мозък, умът и мисловният процес!Все едно Галактика дирижира и ръководи и ражда по повеление господне тази сюита както и останалите 3-те Оркестрови сюити на незабравимия композитор и диригент ,маестро и художник ,пети евангелист Й.С.Бах !Много благодаря за всички 4-те качени Оркестрови сюити !
00:00 Ouverture
08:45 Bourree
11:29 Gavotte
13:31 Menuet I/II
17:15 Réjouissance
Great performance by this outstanding baroque ensemble.
Fabuloso interpretación, excelente orquestación, dirección, vídeo y audio, da gusto escucharlo vez tras vez - excelente vídeo.
Lovely performance ... thanks for sharing
Magnificent! And excellent camera work.
I used to listen it every morning
Opino que es una excelente interpretaciòn.Y un hermoso video en vivo,que otorga un "plus" atractivo.
Thanks!
Thank you very much Stylus Fantasticus 71
so bouncy and fun! THIS is dance music!
Yes 🙂
Just a boy! 🙂
It is hard not to think of the vocal parts Bach added in the initial movement of Cantata BWV 110... they feel like a musical phantom limb...
BWV 110, thanks for the tip! I checked out, very good.
From a historical and cultural perspective, playing Baroque music on period instruments is certainly an interesting approach. From a musical perspective, Baroque music (or any other kind of classical music) sounds better on nowadays instruments - they are more agile, their sound is smoother and clearer. I think Bach would have gladly took advantage of a 20th-century-designed trumpet or oboe, had they been available...
Ton Koopman and his ABO's Baroque excellence - which I'm a fan of - resides in the style adequance - elegance, rigor, perfect balance - and not in the use of period instruments.
***** Then the question you have to ask yourself is whether Bach would have written the same way for the modern instruments as he did for those available in his time. Or in other words, do we need to make Bach better?
+1brewski2 you completely missed the point. We are not ''making Bach better'' but his music is so resilient and sort of musical Terminator which does not lose its dept whether it is performed with saxophones, string orchestra, choir, full romantic orchestra, string quartet or something else. HIP is bullshit because it confines Bach, and Bach was an innovator as much as he was traditionalist. Karl Richter, Klemperer, Furtwaengler, Muenchinger, Scherchen, Ristenpart... are in terms of depth of understanding Bach high above superficial HIP approach which marks the decadence in understanding of music, decadence that is the mark of all aspects of contemporary art and life.
+1brewski2 Bach was a very good knower of the instruments, and for sure had a sound in mind. Although much of his music is not extremely idiomatic, making it work fairly well on other instruments than designed, pieces like the orchestral suites are written for such a specific ensemble that you may not part from the original sounds to make them come out properly. And you don't need a book for that, it's enough to open the ears!
For me, there's a lot to like with "period" style, with one exception: the valveless trumpet. Very few players can play this instrument cleanly, and somehow the audience is not only expected to excuse the flubs and sour notes of this problematic instrument, but to like them. And let's be clear here - the so-called "Baroque Trumpet" is an invention of the 20th century. The fingered vent holes which are used in place of valves are actually a compromise to make the real baroque trumpet playable to something approaching modern standards. Here's how you can quickly tell the difference between the fake-historical "Baroque Trumpet" and the real thing: is the player using one hand or two? If he holds the trumpet up with just one arm, in a "heroic" stance, that is the trumpet Bach wrote for. So, given that most HIP orchestras are playing Bach on an instrument he didn't write for, can't we all get off this all-or-nothing fixation on the "authenticity" of period instrument orchestras? Now if some genius could just invent a modernized trumpet that had the harmonic qualities of the genuine baroque trumpet and the precision of the valved trumpet....
Florin Chirila I agree with your comment. Also the modern flute has a more brilliant sound than that of baroque periods.
Wow.
We ''modernists'' are not ''making Bach better'' but his music is so resilient and sort of musical Terminator which does not
lose its dept whether it is performed with saxophones, string orchestra, choir, full romantic orchestra, string quartet or something else. HIP is bullshit because it confines Bach, and Bach was an innovator as much as he was traditionalist. Karl Richter, Klemperer, Furtwaengler, Muenchinger, Scherchen, Ristenpart... are in terms of depth of understanding Bach high above superficial HIP approach which marks the decadence in understanding of music, decadence that is the mark of all
aspects of contemporary art and life.
Keep in mind that composers (any of them) wrote the music with a sound in mind, especially the pieces with idiomatic parts. Therefore, Bach hand in his ears the sound of the instruments of his time, and basing himself on this composed the music and formed the ensembles. So, I would invite you to think twice before calling HIP "bullshit". I have in mind the heavy and post romantic performances of Richter, and for sure that's how this music would NOT have sounded at the time. HIP is a way to bring back the ideas of the composer's back, so that the music will sound at its full potential.
Severiano Paoli completely wrong. First of all we could not know for sure what Bach had in mind. Second -there is no possibility to hear Bach's own performances. And third - HIP approach to Bach emphasizes empty roller coaster of insanely superficial fast tempi without any depth to music. HIPs are so stupid and blind to see that Bach's music is so cosmopolite and so complex that you could approach it from any possible angle you like and still it would not lose its beauty. They are, in fact, destroying his music by confining his spirit preserved in his music. They are the small minds who only speculate ''this is how it was performed''. Furtwangler's conducting of the ''Air'' from the 3rd suite is something that puts to shame shallow, superficial and utterly banal and empty approach of his HIP ''colleagues'' who look at Bach from the musical only, and at the same time completely wrong musical perspective, that they in their ''objectivity, a term that is stupid and has no content, are completely blind to the essence of music.
+Sam Peckinpah was a classical composer I'm wondering about something: are you a musician? And are you still living in the 50's? Because it doesn't seem like you've been to many HIP concerts (or just concerts) lately. What you're talking about may have happened at the beginning of the HIP movement, when there was still the need to get rid of the late romantic conventions and rediscover the previous ones, and sometimes wrong ways have been taken. But the world has changed a lot, and many new sources came out. From my personal point of view, I find the interpretations of Furtwangler and Richter funny, but not really interesting; to give you a image: if I tried to read Hungarian, which I don't speak, I would be able to read the words, but neither to pronounce them properly nor understand them (and making other people understand, by consequence).
"Fartwrangler"! That made my day!
The rest of your posting is also spot on. Richter was by far the worst of the whole bunch. That man had no understanding of rhythm at all. A bloody metronome would be a better conductor than him.
Grenadier loyal to the king, I'm sorry for my inadequate English. Johann Sebastian Bach's reply to a friend: "Pity that we have to wait for another 230 years before somebody understand my compositions better than myself."
i look so young... ;-)
You are the one in the middle, is it right?
what's the name of the piece in the first few seconds?
Beethoven's Coriolan overture
In which year was this filmed?
around 1986
2 people aren't hip...
Ton Koopman has enriched our lives immensely. I just find it a pity that he has such an obsession with applying his own extreme tempo to many of the works he performs. His rendition of the opening bars of Bach's h moll suite is the worst I've ever heard. Why???...
He must've been angerred by someone while composing it...?!
Pressuring him to finish it up so they etc.
Bach was a moody person, if he had a good mood he can make you dance, while if had been tipsy he compses somthing to enterospect or meditate ..
In general he plays with the mood ... he can even scare you such with his Toccata where at a certain point you might feel yourself as falling from a skyscraper either pushed from a window or the elevater you are in had plameted down ..... Great composer