"There's an old saying I just made up..." Hahaha I love this Wyll. He was so much more interesting back then. He still had a good heart, but he struggled a lot more between balancing his devilish nature and becoming a hero. It made more sense, because he was so young when he made the devil pact.
The thing i liked about EA Wyll is that you could never know how much of what he told you was real or just exaggerated by his inflated ego, if not just a complete lie. He was ultimately good, but arrogant and with a dark side and the potential to be corrupted. It felt like there was always something he was hiding about his true nature, and sometimes it came to the surface ever so slightly. So much more interesting. I ended up thinking new Wyll was just okay, but i mourn the Wyll that we might have had.
EA literally had huge threads of people saying things like "If Wyll is such a hero maybe he shouldn't be lying, self-absorbed, and going on vengeance sprees" like what they're saying wasn't the biggest "Woosh" ever.
I think I prefer this Wyll - he has so many more layers to his character here. In the game now, he seems- flat. All he is is the Blade of Frontier, a hero. Here, he seems like a true person, and not just a legend
The thing is, in this early EA version (the late EA phase I played already had him rewritten) we as player and as character learn about Mizora and Wyll being a warlock right away the first time we talk to him. It's like tipping your narrative hand too early, and I can see why some players would go, "Nah, aren't warlocks evil? I'll leave him in the Grove." Imagine if Gale had blabbed everything about the Netherese orb and his munchies for magic items right away right after we pull him from the portal? It's similar to the very early brainstorming ideas Larian had for meeting Astarion at the beach, where (as a Larian writer revealed during a convention panel) Astarion would still have been stuck in a Nautiloid pod, refusing to come out because of his fear of the sun, and the player would have had to persuade him to even exit the pod... which would have been a blatant clue that Astarion is a vampire, resulting in many players either staking him outright or alternatively (if they thought he was a useless cowardly whiny elf noble instead of a useful rogue) just leaving him in the pod and walking away unless they were playing the most kind-hearted goody-two-shoes or metagaming "Hey I know this pale elf guy is an Origin Companion, and he has a tadpole too, I guess we should take him with us." And we basically would have had a group full of morally iffy Companions in EA: Shar worshipper Shadowheart (Shar worship _should_ be a huge deal for every Faerunian character who isn't evil!!). Vampire spawn Astarion who is being hunted by a vampire lord and is also a stab-happy rogue. Explosive cursed wizard Gale who pissed off a Greater Deity. Githyanki warrior Lae'zel whose culture is xenophobic, ruthless, and evil by AD&D alignment standards. Wyll, a warlock linked to an infernal cambion, who is pretending to be a folk hero. And Karlach, a burning tiefling with... no wait, Karlach wasn't even planned as a companion in EA. And potentially Minthara the evil drow paladin of Lolth (who isn't even an Origin companion) if you went the evil route in EA Act 1. The only one _not_ iffy would've been Halsin, as the flipside of Minthara, but even he is neutral in alignment.
That said, some of those Wyll dialogues could easily have been left in the rewritten version, like the idea of killing the goblin camp leaders coming from Wyll.
@TF2CrunchyFrog thanks for the extensive reply! I loved reading through it. I do agree that, narratively, the bond with Mizora was revealed a little too early in this case. And I actually enjoy that Wyll's alignment is truly good in the game we have now, because we already have a lot of characters falling on the chaotic scale, like Astarion (as longs as he's unascended). But, as you said, a lot of the dialogue could've been rewritten to fit Wyll's new storyline without taking away from him being a good aligned character. Like that in youth, he had "sticky fingers" as he said in the video, but learned his lesson. Or his tendency for revenge on the goblins, as in the current game state, he hates and disregards them anyway, so it wouldn't have changed much of his character.
He's not just a hero, he's also the literal heir to ruling the coast, so however his story plays out, he always gets a "good" ending other than if you don't save Mizora and she turns him to goo which since it doesn't happen near the end of the game but rather the end of act two, I wouldn't consider a true ending but rather a "game over" style ending. So he either becomes the grand duke or he becomes the hero of the hells AND the sword coast. It's almost as if they were too scared to take a risk on his character and wanted to secure one companion who always makes the righteous choice, even when you choose to kill Karlach it's mostly because it was a mission given to him and he chose to trust the person who holds his life in the palm of his hands. When not killing her, Wyll was entirely prepared for Mizora to kill him for his transgressions. That's part of why he and Karlach become so close if you let her live. As it stands all of the nuance to his choices feels so transparently like he's in the passenger seat. The only times you actually let him make his own decisions as a player character are whether to renew his pact with Mizora to save his father (I think, but maybe not even that) and for sure when he chooses whether he wants the grand duke ending or the blade of avernus ending. Sure you can also not do his companion quest and honestly fair enough, I could see why people don't find it particularly enticing. Compare that to the insanely complex coding behind Gale and Shadowheart's companion quests where almost ever decision you make could eventually lead to them making certain decisions like killing the Nightsong, killing Shadowheart's parents, blowing up Gale (although that too is technically a game over ending if you do it too soon) and the choice of going for the Professor Gale ending vs the God Gale ending. Ultimately most characters get exactly *one* choice you can have them make which is between their main two canon endings but a few of them get more decisions along the way and even the one that I'm pretty sure doesn't get any, Asterion, is a fan favorite storyline despite the fact that he technically has no agency because at least the emotional impact is there either way and it makes sense for all of these brainwashed cult members we're slowly having to deprogram to be hesitant about betraying their abusive cult leaders but Wyll never had that, frankly even Mizora feels like a pretty palatable person to have holding the strings of your fate in her hand. The blade of avernus ending outright states that she has him on a *very* long leash and he just happily continues working for her.
5:47 This is the struggle Wyll in the final game is missing. Growing devil horns, being disowned by the duke, and being self-sacrificial all become more meaningful and tragic when you realize Wyll lives and dies by his reputation. His background of a folk hero suddenly becomes a crutch he relies on in place of actual confidence. His mistrust of Astarion becomes a symptom of how he views the world in terms of heroes and villains. We all know the Wyll we got is lackluster. He is an inherently good character, but this version of Wyll sees him grapple with what being good means. That struggle and that growth is what makes the other companions so impactful.
To be fair, full release Wyll is not just missing said struggle. They took away this dilemma, the fact that he, by all means, is kind of a fraud, his fun personality of making up dumb proverbs, his anger complex, the potential story arc of having him become a true hero (or fall from grace) and gave him horns instead. And in the process, turned Mizora from an inexperienced, somewhat incompetent Devil who only got to where she is because of her father, into just another scheming devil that always keeps up their pokerface. Like we don't already have Raphael for that. I love the game, I really do, but that they went back on their ideas for Wyll because the community found him to be boring, only to make him and related characters far more boring is something I'll never get over. Went from my number 2 favorite companion to "You get a permanent seat in camp"
@@BlueDragonKnight77Mizora was a nep baby too? Dang they should've kept that in as it would make more sense why her scheme to get Wyll to make a pact was so half baked and only fooled a teenager.
@@Kennisaurus I really liked how she got kidnapped right out of her pod, since she was on the Nautiloid together with Wyll, and continuously called Wyll through his sending stone and telling him to hurry the f*ck up and save her already only to get kidnapped by Gobins and brought to Moonrise where, lo and behold, we still find her in full release.
@@BlueDragonKnight77 Then blame those parts of the player community for the rewrite, who I assume didn't want a black character to be a fraudster who as a thieving teen made a deal with a devil to get quick powers and potentially slept with Mizora. They wanted a heroic _hero,_ in a party filled with a Bhaalspawn (as the canonical player character), a Shar cleric, a vampire spawn rogue, an explosive wizard who lusts for forbidden power, a xenophobic space alien with a huge sword, and either a drow paladin of Lolth or a furry druid who hates goblins and drow. (As Karlach was given full Companion status only late in EA.)
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Afaik Larian was going to add two more good companions but scrapped them in favor for what we got, with Wyll and Gale falling more toward neutral. There were a lot of complaints on why all the companions were evil. I think they should've had implemented the good companions earlierer as well but instead they removed Wyll's teeth and imo some of Gale as well to make them both fit the good mold better
I love release Wyll so much but after watching this I feel like i'm just gonna grieve the person he could've been. Just these 30 minutes in act1 feels like so much more content than what Wyll now has in the whole game. I really wish that Larian would combine this Wyll and the Wyll we got instead of scrapping all of this for the Wyll we got. He really could've been one of the most interesting companions.
This is exactly what I wish we got as I think the two versions work better when combined. I think his struggle with being seen in a good light and controlling the narrative would have been a lot more impactful as the son of the Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate that has been exiled because he saved the city but took a pact with a devil to do it and was forbidden from ever telling his father about him saving the city, so now he is super selff conscious about how he's perceived as he wants his father's approval back. I really like Wyll regardless, I'm just sad that he essentially got the short end of the stick on many regards
I like this Wyll so much more. He's got that slightly chaotic charismatic vibe to him that I'd expect a warlock to have. I feel like they went way too safe with the current Wyll, he rarely has any sass, which feels much needed.
They tried to hard to make him a goody good character, guess it makes sense, since most of their kind are incapable of being lawful good irl. It's fantasy after all
it reminds me of mitch hedberg. only i think it would be better in a different order: "to kill a dragon, you must chop off its head. that's an old saying i just made up." the "chop off its head" bit is a little cheesy so i'd rather the emphasis be on the old/just-made-up paradox
What i like about this wyll more: He is SO CONNECTED to this world. There are people who know the stories he told, the stories he lived through and the person behind the stories. I respec the Release Wyll to a barr almosr anytime, but this one is fitting with Warlock. I think Theo with this srory? Wyll would've probably dethroned Astarion as the most simped for male companion.
I prefer Theo Soloman as a VA but darn do I like this version of Wyll! I think the more vengeful/egotistical aspects of him work especially well. i think there could have been a good balance. the princely appearance and romance but still kept a more egotistical side to him with a strong sense of pride.
I'll be honest I was very attached to Lanre's voice and him playing Wyll, it just ain't the same. Right when they changed it, just left him without character really, completely changed his personality to, people got attached to the old Wyll. It was hard for me to adjust, but now I'm use to Theo's voice, he did a very good job I will say, still, it took me a bit to turn around to him.
@@Luxayt_ i dont think theo soloman is to blame for that good va work can only do so much for a character, the writing is still core and that's larian's responsibility
I find this version of Wyll more interesting, maybe if they went with his old storyline I wouldn’t have left him at camp so much. I really like how this version of Wyll asks to kill the goblin leaders in the temple to protect the kids in the grove. ❤ Thank you for sharing this, finding any Early Access content for BG3 is much harder than I would like it to be, they cut some amazing story content I can only hope they patch some of it back in, but seeing alternative content like this makes my day even if I don’t get to enjoy it in-game.
He is easier to relate to as a hero, rather than being angry and full of vengeful spite. Its interesting, but with all the other companions flaws, him being a spiteful sod would be a bit too much.
@@dorianleakey which version of Wyll do you prefer? Sorry, but the way you phrased your comment I can't tell if you mean his early access or full-release version.
I love this Wyll so much!! hes so much more charismatic and interesting, how is it that he's more fleshed out in early access than in the final release?????
His story was changed in the last years as some more vocal folks complained about him (much like vocal folks got Halsin turned into a party member instead of him staying a one and done npc.)
The romance scene with wyll was so meaningful. It shows he has past trauma of being used in relationships where the power dynamic was literally binding hin with his abuser. The notes that hint him and mizora had a thing make even more sense when you think about how she must control him and keep him thinking he is happy with this pact. Truly I think this old storyline of his is amazing and that’s saying something as I have not had one urge to get to wyll in his new version
I think they didn’t know where to go with it so they scrapped it. I also think it was too close to Astarion’s backstory or trauma. As the Es patches progressed Wyll was starting to be more manipulative specifically of a barbarian Tav. Again too close to Astarion and Gale
When I was meeting Mizora and I told her not to lay a finger on him. She said the ship has already sailed... I like paled..and started thinking that did she have sex with him. Poor Wyll
not that his new VA bothered me or anything but this mismatch between how they clearly wanted to originally characterize him and how he talks now has been one of the more frustrating aspects for me. he went from just a bloke who happens to be in this situation to something else entirely. something that I'd argue is a bit uncoherent at times.
I feel like he has more personality in early access. He sounds more natural. I like the new voice actor too but his lines just sound like a caricature of Prince Charming or something.
I love release Wyll and the performance that Theo gave, that being said I like a lot of what I'm seeing here. This ties wylls story with mizora and the goblins right from the start. Yeah he has more flaws but if early access players had gotten to see Wylls character development and conclusion maybe theyd have liked him more. We definitely missed out on a deeper Wyll who could still have developed into the righteous character I love
I do not dislike the full realease version of Wyll, but having played early access I can't help but to wonder what could have been if they hadn't rewritten him. Especially since I feel like new Wyll is the least cooked companion we have with loose ends connecting him to his previous story in mind. The sending stone for an eye? It had purpose here, he was using it to contact Mizora. In the full realese we can ask Wyll about it, there even is the check for arcane Tavs to realise what it is. But thats the end of this story. I did a full origin Wyll playthrough in hope to get some special scenes with Mizora, thinking maybe thats when the sending stone comes to play. But no. Aside from ONE extra scene with Mizora during the first long rest, I felt I was playing a regular Tav who happend to be the son of the kidnapped duke. Rumor has it, Larian changed Wyll due to his unpopularity in early access, but I really don't understand why he had gotten the short end of the stick. EVERY companion was ruder, colder and bigger asshole in early access, they really toned them down. The only good thing that came out of this change is that we got Karlach as a fully fledged companion. But then again, Karlach has waaaay more unique interactions as an origin character playthrough then Wyll as a companion.
Black characters often get judged MUCH harsher for morally ambiguous decisions. I recon he got changed because of that. And in turn it prevented him from becoming a real fleshed out companion
@@saal0 They were still making content additions over the time in updates so they could've added more yet chose to add... kissing animations. I've seen videos where even basic dialogue reactivity that all the other origin characters have is missing for Wyll. They just dropped everything and it especially shows in his new ending.
@@saal0You should have seen the way people shat on him during the EA years. Every day people writing theses about how he's the most evil/detestable companion when meanwhile, you could slaughter an entire group of refugees and he was the only one to care. It was ridiculous.
Karlach was always going to be a full companion, for the record. Her OG voice and voicelines had all the origin and companion dialogues recorded already. It's just that she and Wyll weren't tied to each other at all.
I think there were some valid criticisms of Wyll in early access because this version of him overlaps with the other companions. However, with the change in VA and personality, the release version of Wyll is massively underdeveloped.
I love this sassy Wyll who struggles with the darker aspects of his personality. It makes so much more sense than the bland template of a character we got in the final version.
Man I miss EA Wyll so much. His hatred and feud with the goblins just made him so much more involved with early Act 1. Plus, him being a monster hunter that still believes in the good of everyone, except for one specific race that hurt him personally, makes him SUCH a fascinating hypocrite and i would have loved to further explore this. You could either have him overcome his hatred, or use this to further corrupt him. Also, with Myzora just showing up in camp, wasn't his sending stone eye kinda useless in the final game?
@@yoursonisold8743There are still a lot of goblins in Act 2. Imagine if you torture the goblins in Moonrise and Wyll (of all people!) approves to that. Imagine if you approve of his stance on that too much and he also does it to other "evil" creatures, like he does with Karlach at the beginning of the game. Ever heard of the trope of the too Lawful Paladin? A character so obsessed with what they believe is good that they cannot see the evil they actually cause, because they can always find a way to justify it? EA Wyll could have went down that path. "The rosd to hell is paved with good intentions" and so on. But also, on a good run, the scene where you can kill the goblins in Moonrise could have been a turning point for EA Wyll. Like he confronts you about almost blowing your cover for some lowly gobbos, and you can confront him about his prevoncieved notions about it. Or hey, that was all in EA, imagine if the time spent rewriting Wyll was instead used to improve upon his existing character and adding more stuff his worldview clashes with.
@@Ellisepha That is a tiny moment in all of Act 2. And there are no goblins in Act 3 at all. My point wasnt that you cant do something with Wyll being overly aggeessive against all evil-doers, it was that tying him so intrinsically to the goblins specifically is pointless and reeks of "we only thought as far as Act 1" writing. Which is one of the reasons they changed him.
@@yoursonisold8743 doesn't good character writing come from a collection of those tiny moments? I think it would have fleshed out the character greatly + we're talking about an early access personality that got completely rewritten, if they had kept it, there would have been more examples down the line lol
When I played with Wyll during Early Access. I traveled with him quite often. And it felt he was well written as a character. After full launch he became shadow of former self. A shell of a previous character with pretty much no story. Wyll deserves justice!... Now I never recruit him and my pwrty mostly always consists of : Shadowheart, Lae'Zel, Astarion/Minthara. Sometimes in act 3 I do recruit Minsc As a Barbarian and Jaeheira as a healer. But now when I thought of it It would be quite interesting to have Legit Hero's party : Origins Wyll, Jaeheira, Minsc and Halsin.
Early Access Wyll makes me so sad because it's very clear Larian have a bias against him. No other character would get completely scratched and rewritten right before release just to never get properly finished despite constant updates for the entire year after release. Fact he got almost 5 hours less content than other characters and hardest romance to trigger due to no scene in act 1 is hard to excuse considering how much content others got post-release and the way Theo is treated by both devs and fandom. Atp it feels like Larian regrets putting him into the game and that's depressing.
Wow, I have never seen this early access wyll, he is damn cool! I like the thing with finding mizora and that he is more eager to kill the bad guys. He is a more complex character this way.
I like the Wyll we got in the game but man, I can't help but think Larian should have stuck to their guns and smoothed out the problems with his original pitch rather than pivoting in the final year of release to appease vocal fans and make him a more clean-cut hero. It might at least have helped the problems with Wyll feeling chronically under-developed.
Thanks for sharing! Commenting late since I was hoping his character would be expanded on in the last seven patches, but nothing beyond wrap up stuff... This Jon Snow / realistic thrust into action version of him is so much better than the pc version. They just made him more like Gale in retrospect. Even the goblin interaction is a 180 since it adds to his backstory and could've taught you the value of toggling on non lethal (something i learned late). RIP multi dimensional character/story Wyll 😢
Larian should have stuck to their guns and kept this version of Wyll. Although, I think some things about full release Wyll are better. Such as his pact with Mizora coming from him saving the world and them not having an intimate(ish) relationship. Don't get me wrong, I love good characters. But if not done well, then they can be one dimensional, which full release Wyll is. And worse is that he is one-dimensial in a game full of complex characters. You can still have someone be good and complex at the same time (see Gale).
I like seeing so many people saying they like this Wyll, but geez it felt like the entire internet hated EA Wyll and they were happy he was getting recast and redone.
@@jons5478 Usually I've got nothing for respect for the long term fans, heck knows I've been an og fan in fandoms that have blown up and gone in a totally different direction and how frustrating that can be, but if they cost us this Wyll? I high key have to question their taste. >3>
Yeah people said Wyll was an asshole which I find weird in a game with a lot worse people. People painted his character flaws as "he says was thing but does another" like that wasn't the fucking point. I do think Larian should have stuck to their guns. I think they overcorrected big time though I think Theo is a better actor.
Tbf people bitched about every companion being "evil" in EA. As a result, Shadowheart got tuned down a lot on release, but lucky for her, her story is largely intact. Gale is less "sus" than in EA but his story isn't changed. Lae'zel and Astarion didn't get changed and while there are a lot of edge lords complained and killed them because they are "rude", both got great story arcs for their "good" and "bad" endings. Wyll unfortunately got completely scrapped, so he is the most unfinished origin companion along with Karlach but at least Karlach gets a few memorable scenes in act3 where Wyll got sidelines in pretty much everything.
Would that we could have had THIS Wyll instead. Sadge. Truly, he would have been an amazing choice for a canon main character. Pulled into so many directions - the mistrust of the Flaming Fist, his hate for the goblins and his cruel streak, his desire for Mizora, the tender feelings he has for Tav - his story could have been so much more interesting. I might have to write fanfic about him lol
"May we be free from the devils that might bind us.... and the devils that already do." That line goes so hard. i would have loved to see more of this from Wyll in game
wyll's "it's like i always sometimes say" here reminds me of early access wyll's "there's an old saying i just made up." i wish they had kept that version of him 😭
Funny how in every single word there is something I can point to and say "I like this better than what we got". Early Access was a blessing and a curse. Jeez
Early access was a masterpiece in the making, the full version was a rushed dissapointment, with a lot of cut content and a slight tint of certain virus. Still, probably one of my favorite games ever. Shame that I could have been a masterpiece if they didn't change so much.
@@miaomiiao idk how it got game of the year tbh. Hell, I think early access idea was closer to a game worthy of the name of Baldur's Gate lol. INstead we got "you like sex? Here is the sex. Take all the sex". And somehow that was the best rpg ever. Fucking hell
@@greyngreyer5 okay, I think this is a gross exaggeration. I didn't play the early access version, and I feel kinda left out, but the finished product was indeed a great RPG. I'm not saying the best game ever, or the best RPG ever, but a great RPG nonetheless, and I'd even say that it was the best RPG in 2023 from the list of nominees. It could have been better, and I'm kinda torn on the end product myself, but it's still an excellent game
it is unfortunate that we didn't get this wyll but I am amazed that larian completely changed wyll and there is no hint of this wyll in full release. Like when they said they want to revize a character they revized it from a start oh my god if it was any other game company he would barely change yet here we have a totally new wyll which impresses me a lot!
Got to say I find this Wyll much more entertaining especially as at least one of my Tavs - the Bard obviously - was essentially a scam that turned out to be pretty decent at the Hero stuff but was terrified that his party would find out.
OG Wyll was a hell of a lot more interesting not only considering his connection with Mizora but also him possibly having to dance the line of hero and villan to save her
I immediately loved Wyll in EA (though his introduction was where I had to stop playing bc I was on my old MacBook at the time, and it kept crashing 😭). I remember him becoming an immediate favorite, and then when I finally was able to play full release a few months later, it felt like the same vibe wasn’t there 😭 It’s a bit jarring seeing this again, now! I wish they would have kept him a bit more flawed, like this. It makes him a lot more personable!
Whenever I played the current version I always thought Wyll was the flattest character I’ve ever met and now it makes so much sense. They gave him so much depth and character but they decided to cut this entire aspect of him and leave in early access and now it makes so much sense. He’s one of my favourite go to characters for whenever I’m adventuring, it hurts to see how much we lost.
I don't understand why they changed Wyll so much...? He was a far more interesting character in EA. We got more character development with him in this 30-minute video than we ever did over the course of the entire game. Obviously that's only my opinion, but... idk... it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me - especially considering the emotional depths that some of the other characters showcase (even a few NPCs are better written than final release Wyll!) I like his VA here as well, though I must say I love Theo and I can't see Wyll being voiced by anyone else but him now lol. So, why was Wyll _specifically_ singled out for this massive change? Can anybody tell me...? Because I would really love to know. Also, thank you so much to OP for preserving this! 😊
gamer bros bombarded them with complaints saying he was too contradictory and morally corrupt to be a likeable companion. meanwhile astarion is 2x worse and he didn't get the same kinda flack. hmmmmmmmmm i wonder what the double standard here could be
@@guacamojo Yeah, it definitely seems sus af, especially when you consider that literally everyone in this damn game is contradictory and morally corrupt (to _wildly_ varying degrees lol). There are no real heroes here. Nobody is completely honest, nobody is perfect... *nobody.* And that is exactly how it should be; it's one of the many things I love about this game. ...But it's also the entire reason why Wyll sticks out so much: Because all in all, he's just so... _unrealistic._ Even in epic fantasy RPG terms. I hope someday we can move past this nonsense and just write amazing stories without worrying about what other people think or consider. It just ruins creativity. It ruins what should be beautiful works of art. That's really all it ever does.
@@justinburchette I disagree, Karlach is morally good at an annoying level. Her character is basically “I’m the goodest good that has ever gooded. I don’t like anything bad happening to good people, because that’s not good” There’s no ambiguity or grey. From the moment we meet her we are immediately shown she is not a bad person and literally everyone likes it when we don’t attack her. Then she never changes one iota during the game.
@@rickkcir2151 Yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't know how I managed to forget about Karlach lol 🤦🏻♂️ Well, aside from her at least, everyone else (besides Wyll) is pretty morally grey. I guess in that case Wyll sticks out to me for two reasons: *1.* He once _was_ a more complex character, but was then rewritten to be a goody-good. *2.* Karlach was a late addition to the roster (afaik), but she was _always_ a goody-good. Thinking about it like that now, I wonder if there's some type of development-level connection between those two. Obviously there is from a story perspective... but now I'm wondering if at one point they decided they wanted a purely good party member, and so they wrote Karlach to fill that roll - but then somewhere along the line they dropped Wyll's more complex nature and subsequently made him a "Karlach, Jr." (for whatever reason), and then decided to intertwine their stories...? Idk, man, maybe I'm totally off here lol 🤷🏻♂️ _(Edited because I can't spell things.)_
@@guacamojoIt wasn't a complaint about Wyll, it was a complaint about literally every companion in the early access. Larian spent the entire EA period basically toning down the edginess in companions and making them more "good" so that there would be more variety. They singled out Wyll for a full rewrite because he was the least popular companion in early access according to their data. They also added Karlach to the game in response to these complaints.
Halfway through the video now, this Wyll is very intriguing. I got used to the new Wyll's voice so hearing this one sounds a bit weird, but it's growing on me fast. Sometimes you see the EA videos and wonder "why did they change it, why did they cut it out". Watching this I can see both good and bad changes but everyone has a preference, they may have liked stuff that I don't.
I love how in this version Wyll *could've* told you about Mizora, but just chose not to. It makes a lot of sense, and it's much more interesting than him "not being able to" like in final release. Makes it sound like they were trying to justify why he didn't just tattle his whole backstory to a stranger, as if they even needed to. All this, and you can't even be understanding of Wyll's situation in most dialogue choices, even as a warlock. It's as if they couldn't make up their mind about how the story should go about treating him.
It’s a bit ironic I remember in EA people complained the companions were to confrontational all the time…. Now people complain they are too easy to please. Difficult balance I guess 😂
Gale's in a kinda similar spot - in EA, the magic items he needed to consume were very limited, and had to be actually powerful. The Idol of Sylvanus and the Hellblade you can get on the Nautiloid are some I can remember. This was also one of the incentives to give the player to actually consider stealing the Idol. I both like and hate that Gale's Hunger is so easy to satiate now. I think he'd be hated a lot more if they kept the restrictions, but I also think that it would have been more interesting and engaging for the players to have to make difficult choices like this.
My goodness I like this voice actor and character so much more than what we ended up with. I generally just leave Wyll in the grove now because he's so dull.
Wyll takes a lot to warm up to because he seems so lack luster compared to the rest despite having the biggest tie ins to the story. I think EA Wyll was a lot, and I can see how some of the problems of why fans maybe didn't like him was due to him having so many ties to the main plot and inserting himself almost as the leader of the group. He's overly cocky but preaches about being a hero, which again I can see how that would rub people the wrong way. I think I would have liked a more roughed out Wyll in final, one who is DESPERATE to be a hero but can't seem to make the right choices because his pact is acting like a double edged sword. Live Wyll is like.....he's there. Larian should have blended EA and Live Wyll into a more balanced character
The thing I miss the most was him having a 'condition' to joining. It made so much sense somehow. Also the fact that a kobold took his eye. I thought that was really quite funny lol
Holy crap I would have actually liked Wyll if this was the Wyll we got in full release. The things he says here have weight. I also love the less posh accent for him. Instead we've got a flat exposite on what just happened with zero emotion character. And when he swears it sounds like a primary school child testing out swearing whereas the other characters that do swear: for Karlach it's a dialect choice, and for Astarion it's a rarity that comes out when he's anxious and it seems to have weight and purpose. I did a run where the only companions I had were Lae'zel, Astarion, and Wyll. And the only time I really felt I got an original thought from him or any emotion was around Durge's story in Act 3. Overall he just lacks emotion. Even if his dad dies, even if he watches his dad die in the Iron Throne, he just kind of shrugs it off. Someone with such a complicated relationship with their parent would have a complex emotional reaction to the death of that parent. We don't really get that here. Every other character, I had reasons for disliking them as a first impression (except Karlach, she is perfect 😂) and how each one grew on me over time. Some, like Astarion and Gale grew on me quickly (in spite of me HAAAATING them both at first). Others, like Lae'zel and Shadowheart required more time (although my impressions of both were started more favorably than with the boys). I've not ever had that with Wyll. I can fix him so that he can hit an enemy. I can't fix him so that I feel like doing his story.
Oh this is interesting! This is the first time I see EA Wyll's story. I must say that I really prefer his EA storyline. It's far more interesting than the release version. Now Wyll's character seems so underdeveloped compared to the other companions. The writers did such an amazing job with the other members of the party but current Wyll... I don't know, it feels like they completely rushed through writing his storyline. I absolutely love Theo Solomon's performance and I think his voice is a better fit for a noble person like Wyll. I like both actors but Theo's performance is a little more posh. I wish the writers at Larian wouldn't have changed everything about Wyll so drastically. 😢
Well, they were right to change it, but maybe too much? I feel like Mizora makes more sense being captured seperately, chasing her down to free her would make her seem relateable.
Honestly, I want to be annoyed with what it cost us (this more complex and interesting Wyll), but the goblin thing DID feel like the weakest part of this by a mile. Don't know that they had to go full Tiamat threat level re: Wyll's being pulled into the pact with Mizora, but surely there could have been a happy medium more interesting then "some random jackass goblins that are conveniently at the camp you need to explore".
Imagine you got captured, tortured, and lost your eye to goblins. You would probably kill them too... Also he watched a whole village get ransacked by them as well and unable to stop it. How can you even find that annoying...
The new Wyll is a goody two shoes and because of that he is not believable. This Wyll gets angry, has dark desires and had more character and ego - something the legendary Blade of Frontiers would have. I feel bad for the actor and the character.
like everyone else, i like this version way more because it's so fleshed out. i wouldn't mind the rewrite half as much if it wasn't so last minute and left wyll as a hollow husk of a character
As someone who romanced Wyll in my first bg3 run, there were so many elements of this Wyll that I loved so much more than his final version. I do love the VA they ended up going with, this guy was very talented, but something sounded a little too modern about his voice and like he was trying to old timey (kind of like having an iPhone face, but auditorily). I will say I LOVED the elements of having this mixed relationship with Mizora and think that would have made the final release romance so much more interesting with it being this kind of unwilling love triangle for Wyll between the person he cares about and the cambion he can't say no to. I do feel like his motivations here didn't make a ton of sense and I feel like his story would have run out of steam a bit after he extracts his revenge on the goblins. Ideally I think having a blend of this Wyll with final release Wyll would have been so much better. Making his backstory be one of "my dad was perfect and I knew I could never live up so I just became a little spoiled brat who then was sent away to join the Fists and finally felt like I could be a hero in my own right and make my father proud, only to be tricked by a cambion and come back as a disgraced warrior and be disowned by my father" and then having that be the driver for why he wants to be the hero would just make more impact I feel.
Interesting how the voice actor was playing Wyll with a much lower class accent in EA. He sounds a bit like a low class guy from Coventry instead of the rich boy speaking RP like he did in the main release.
I love this wyll compared to the one we got. feels a lot more relatable and flawed (in a good storytelling way). I probably would have let him travel around with me if he acted like this.
I never played EA, and Wyll is still my fave companion post-EA/whatever the current version is called...but damn, this is a really interesting route for him. I feel bad for the VA, it sounds like he was having a blast performing Wyll.
I'm glad they got rid of the londoner accent for a more "queen's english" since he is nobility, but I do like the personality he has here. It's just a little bit cheeky. Not full on Astarion cockiness but a little bit of self deprecation and playfulness
Like basically everyone else here i like EA Wyll better, so much more personality He kinda reminds me of Ben 10 as a teenager, arrogant but has the skill and legend to back up his inflated ego, and genuine generosity and altruism despite ego
Everyone who prefers Wyll this way: I hear you and respect it. However playing with him was torture. He was annoying and a goodie two shoes except when he gave into goblin urge. He also was one of the hardest to romance without bugs. Know that the Wyll we see in this video gets the benefit of someone modding + not having to listen to him whine on the road. I played 300~ hours of early access and even on runs where I tried to make Wyll the focus, it was a let down. The Wyll we have now is better because his plot line makes sense. Is he a super lawful good aligned boy scout? Sure. He's also got more meaningful depth than the chaos kid from EA who likely would have destroyed the grove if it had a goblin druid
Why is this version of Wyll so charming and sexy. That romance scene was sooo good!! And i really feel empathy for his character and the stakes at hand. Oh this is really hurtful to watch knowing it is not in the final product.
Honestly never going to forgive everyone in EA who griped about him so much that Larian restarted him from scratch, likely resulting in his utter lack of content compared to other characters. :\
I feel like the reason they might have cut this is because in some ways he's far too similar to Astarion. They're definitely different but there's something about this version of Wyll that makes him seem like a dialed back version of Astarion.
@@16Vagabond I'll be honest I don't really see that. They're both good characters but their mannerisms and the way they react to situations is completely different. I see what you mean though and I would say I'd rather have this one as well. I understand they did the change but I think vanilla hero wasn't the best choice.
@thetommyshades5347 I think they should have combined the two. The son of the Grand Duke, exiled after saving the city by making a pact with a devil who is delighted by making him unable to explain to his father why he has a devil on his shoulder just to see him being renounced by his father and exiled ? I can definitely see him as a person that ends up wanting to control the narrative and be seen as way more of a hero than he truly is
"There's an old saying I just made up..." Hahaha I love this Wyll.
He was so much more interesting back then. He still had a good heart, but he struggled a lot more between balancing his devilish nature and becoming a hero. It made more sense, because he was so young when he made the devil pact.
I have to say I think a mix would be better. I prefer the other Wylls voice but this Wylls line delivery
Except that line is in the final game...
I quite like his layers, he had gruffness but softness too
"it's like i always sometimes say: you can't summon dead ogres, no matter how hard you blow" ?? this wyll is still in the game.
The thing i liked about EA Wyll is that you could never know how much of what he told you was real or just exaggerated by his inflated ego, if not just a complete lie. He was ultimately good, but arrogant and with a dark side and the potential to be corrupted. It felt like there was always something he was hiding about his true nature, and sometimes it came to the surface ever so slightly. So much more interesting. I ended up thinking new Wyll was just okay, but i mourn the Wyll that we might have had.
EA literally had huge threads of people saying things like "If Wyll is such a hero maybe he shouldn't be lying, self-absorbed, and going on vengeance sprees" like what they're saying wasn't the biggest "Woosh" ever.
@@thefoxoflaurels3437 yeah that was literally the point. I guess no matter which side of the coin you get some people always want the other
I think I prefer this Wyll - he has so many more layers to his character here. In the game now, he seems- flat. All he is is the Blade of Frontier, a hero. Here, he seems like a true person, and not just a legend
The thing is, in this early EA version (the late EA phase I played already had him rewritten) we as player and as character learn about Mizora and Wyll being a warlock right away the first time we talk to him. It's like tipping your narrative hand too early, and I can see why some players would go, "Nah, aren't warlocks evil? I'll leave him in the Grove."
Imagine if Gale had blabbed everything about the Netherese orb and his munchies for magic items right away right after we pull him from the portal?
It's similar to the very early brainstorming ideas Larian had for meeting Astarion at the beach, where (as a Larian writer revealed during a convention panel) Astarion would still have been stuck in a Nautiloid pod, refusing to come out because of his fear of the sun, and the player would have had to persuade him to even exit the pod... which would have been a blatant clue that Astarion is a vampire, resulting in many players either staking him outright or alternatively (if they thought he was a useless cowardly whiny elf noble instead of a useful rogue) just leaving him in the pod and walking away unless they were playing the most kind-hearted goody-two-shoes or metagaming "Hey I know this pale elf guy is an Origin Companion, and he has a tadpole too, I guess we should take him with us."
And we basically would have had a group full of morally iffy Companions in EA:
Shar worshipper Shadowheart (Shar worship _should_ be a huge deal for every Faerunian character who isn't evil!!).
Vampire spawn Astarion who is being hunted by a vampire lord and is also a stab-happy rogue.
Explosive cursed wizard Gale who pissed off a Greater Deity.
Githyanki warrior Lae'zel whose culture is xenophobic, ruthless, and evil by AD&D alignment standards.
Wyll, a warlock linked to an infernal cambion, who is pretending to be a folk hero.
And Karlach, a burning tiefling with... no wait, Karlach wasn't even planned as a companion in EA.
And potentially Minthara the evil drow paladin of Lolth (who isn't even an Origin companion) if you went the evil route in EA Act 1.
The only one _not_ iffy would've been Halsin, as the flipside of Minthara, but even he is neutral in alignment.
That said, some of those Wyll dialogues could easily have been left in the rewritten version, like the idea of killing the goblin camp leaders coming from Wyll.
@TF2CrunchyFrog thanks for the extensive reply! I loved reading through it.
I do agree that, narratively, the bond with Mizora was revealed a little too early in this case. And I actually enjoy that Wyll's alignment is truly good in the game we have now, because we already have a lot of characters falling on the chaotic scale, like Astarion (as longs as he's unascended). But, as you said, a lot of the dialogue could've been rewritten to fit Wyll's new storyline without taking away from him being a good aligned character. Like that in youth, he had "sticky fingers" as he said in the video, but learned his lesson. Or his tendency for revenge on the goblins, as in the current game state, he hates and disregards them anyway, so it wouldn't have changed much of his character.
He's not just a hero, he's also the literal heir to ruling the coast, so however his story plays out, he always gets a "good" ending other than if you don't save Mizora and she turns him to goo which since it doesn't happen near the end of the game but rather the end of act two, I wouldn't consider a true ending but rather a "game over" style ending. So he either becomes the grand duke or he becomes the hero of the hells AND the sword coast.
It's almost as if they were too scared to take a risk on his character and wanted to secure one companion who always makes the righteous choice, even when you choose to kill Karlach it's mostly because it was a mission given to him and he chose to trust the person who holds his life in the palm of his hands. When not killing her, Wyll was entirely prepared for Mizora to kill him for his transgressions. That's part of why he and Karlach become so close if you let her live.
As it stands all of the nuance to his choices feels so transparently like he's in the passenger seat. The only times you actually let him make his own decisions as a player character are whether to renew his pact with Mizora to save his father (I think, but maybe not even that) and for sure when he chooses whether he wants the grand duke ending or the blade of avernus ending. Sure you can also not do his companion quest and honestly fair enough, I could see why people don't find it particularly enticing. Compare that to the insanely complex coding behind Gale and Shadowheart's companion quests where almost ever decision you make could eventually lead to them making certain decisions like killing the Nightsong, killing Shadowheart's parents, blowing up Gale (although that too is technically a game over ending if you do it too soon) and the choice of going for the Professor Gale ending vs the God Gale ending.
Ultimately most characters get exactly *one* choice you can have them make which is between their main two canon endings but a few of them get more decisions along the way and even the one that I'm pretty sure doesn't get any, Asterion, is a fan favorite storyline despite the fact that he technically has no agency because at least the emotional impact is there either way and it makes sense for all of these brainwashed cult members we're slowly having to deprogram to be hesitant about betraying their abusive cult leaders but Wyll never had that, frankly even Mizora feels like a pretty palatable person to have holding the strings of your fate in her hand. The blade of avernus ending outright states that she has him on a *very* long leash and he just happily continues working for her.
@@TF2CrunchyFrogKarlach definitly was planned companion, Halsin is the one added leather in development
I like how you used guidance for a DC 0 roll.
you never know
You could see them fighting the Dark Urge to apply it too but ultimately they lost.
5:47 This is the struggle Wyll in the final game is missing. Growing devil horns, being disowned by the duke, and being self-sacrificial all become more meaningful and tragic when you realize Wyll lives and dies by his reputation.
His background of a folk hero suddenly becomes a crutch he relies on in place of actual confidence. His mistrust of Astarion becomes a symptom of how he views the world in terms of heroes and villains.
We all know the Wyll we got is lackluster. He is an inherently good character, but this version of Wyll sees him grapple with what being good means. That struggle and that growth is what makes the other companions so impactful.
To be fair, full release Wyll is not just missing said struggle.
They took away this dilemma, the fact that he, by all means, is kind of a fraud, his fun personality of making up dumb proverbs, his anger complex, the potential story arc of having him become a true hero (or fall from grace) and gave him horns instead.
And in the process, turned Mizora from an inexperienced, somewhat incompetent Devil who only got to where she is because of her father, into just another scheming devil that always keeps up their pokerface. Like we don't already have Raphael for that.
I love the game, I really do, but that they went back on their ideas for Wyll because the community found him to be boring, only to make him and related characters far more boring is something I'll never get over. Went from my number 2 favorite companion to "You get a permanent seat in camp"
@@BlueDragonKnight77Mizora was a nep baby too? Dang they should've kept that in as it would make more sense why her scheme to get Wyll to make a pact was so half baked and only fooled a teenager.
@@Kennisaurus I really liked how she got kidnapped right out of her pod, since she was on the Nautiloid together with Wyll, and continuously called Wyll through his sending stone and telling him to hurry the f*ck up and save her already only to get kidnapped by Gobins and brought to Moonrise where, lo and behold, we still find her in full release.
@@BlueDragonKnight77 Then blame those parts of the player community for the rewrite, who I assume didn't want a black character to be a fraudster who as a thieving teen made a deal with a devil to get quick powers and potentially slept with Mizora. They wanted a heroic _hero,_ in a party filled with a Bhaalspawn (as the canonical player character), a Shar cleric, a vampire spawn rogue, an explosive wizard who lusts for forbidden power, a xenophobic space alien with a huge sword, and either a drow paladin of Lolth or a furry druid who hates goblins and drow. (As Karlach was given full Companion status only late in EA.)
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Afaik Larian was going to add two more good companions but scrapped them in favor for what we got, with Wyll and Gale falling more toward neutral. There were a lot of complaints on why all the companions were evil. I think they should've had implemented the good companions earlierer as well but instead they removed Wyll's teeth and imo some of Gale as well to make them both fit the good mold better
I love release Wyll so much but after watching this I feel like i'm just gonna grieve the person he could've been. Just these 30 minutes in act1 feels like so much more content than what Wyll now has in the whole game. I really wish that Larian would combine this Wyll and the Wyll we got instead of scrapping all of this for the Wyll we got. He really could've been one of the most interesting companions.
This is exactly what I wish we got as I think the two versions work better when combined.
I think his struggle with being seen in a good light and controlling the narrative would have been a lot more impactful as the son of the Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate that has been exiled because he saved the city but took a pact with a devil to do it and was forbidden from ever telling his father about him saving the city, so now he is super selff conscious about how he's perceived as he wants his father's approval back.
I really like Wyll regardless, I'm just sad that he essentially got the short end of the stick on many regards
I like this Wyll so much more. He's got that slightly chaotic charismatic vibe to him that I'd expect a warlock to have. I feel like they went way too safe with the current Wyll, he rarely has any sass, which feels much needed.
Blame the sensitive people who got mad that none of the companions were goody two shoes.
True. Something’s off with such a mild-mannered monster slayer that final Wyll became.
I want EA Wyll 😢
They tried to hard to make him a goody good character, guess it makes sense, since most of their kind are incapable of being lawful good irl. It's fantasy after all
@@Xxsorafan Tbf, when everyone is a sassy arrogant asshole it becomes stale quick
@@LucasRibeiro-po4pb replies like this are why the companions are mid now
“There’s an old saying I just made up: to kill a dragon, you must chop off its head.”
I would have fallen head over heels for this guy
fr i would have romanced him so hard
I was just thinking about that!! What a shame. He would've 100% been my favorite
Why? That's just as cheesy as anything else he says now.
it reminds me of mitch hedberg. only i think it would be better in a different order: "to kill a dragon, you must chop off its head. that's an old saying i just made up." the "chop off its head" bit is a little cheesy so i'd rather the emphasis be on the old/just-made-up paradox
@@yoursonisold8743 It's not cheesy at all, it's just dumb and silly
We were robbed of "there's an old saying I just made up"
What i like about this wyll more: He is SO CONNECTED to this world. There are people who know the stories he told, the stories he lived through and the person behind the stories. I respec the Release Wyll to a barr almosr anytime, but this one is fitting with Warlock. I think Theo with this srory? Wyll would've probably dethroned Astarion as the most simped for male companion.
Completely agree, I don't know why they decide to change his personality completely
2:00 I didn't know Shadowheart and Astarion were so into each other in Early Access lol
Hands off vampire boy! She's mine
I prefer Theo Soloman as a VA but darn do I like this version of Wyll! I think the more vengeful/egotistical aspects of him work especially well. i think there could have been a good balance. the princely appearance and romance but still kept a more egotistical side to him with a strong sense of pride.
I'll be honest I was very attached to Lanre's voice and him playing Wyll, it just ain't the same. Right when they changed it, just left him without character really, completely changed his personality to, people got attached to the old Wyll. It was hard for me to adjust, but now I'm use to Theo's voice, he did a very good job I will say, still, it took me a bit to turn around to him.
Theo has a great voice, but this character would be great with him
@@Luxayt_ i dont think theo soloman is to blame for that
good va work can only do so much for a character, the writing is still core and that's larian's responsibility
That explains why Wyll has feather fall on him at the start of the grove fight
lol
I remember one time as he was taunting the goblins he jumped and fell prone, cutting off his dialogue. Honestly wish they kept it as a possibility.
@@Cruddyhorsethat sounds funny asf
I find this version of Wyll more interesting, maybe if they went with his old storyline I wouldn’t have left him at camp so much. I really like how this version of Wyll asks to kill the goblin leaders in the temple to protect the kids in the grove. ❤ Thank you for sharing this, finding any Early Access content for BG3 is much harder than I would like it to be, they cut some amazing story content I can only hope they patch some of it back in, but seeing alternative content like this makes my day even if I don’t get to enjoy it in-game.
Agreed 100000%!!!! Wyll deserves this level of depth
It seems like if the original scriptwriter was replaced by significantly less talented one.
He is easier to relate to as a hero, rather than being angry and full of vengeful spite. Its interesting, but with all the other companions flaws, him being a spiteful sod would be a bit too much.
@@dorianleakey which version of Wyll do you prefer? Sorry, but the way you phrased your comment I can't tell if you mean his early access or full-release version.
I didn't realize he stopped but you're right.
I love this Wyll so much!! hes so much more charismatic and interesting, how is it that he's more fleshed out in early access than in the final release?????
His story was changed in the last years as some more vocal folks complained about him (much like vocal folks got Halsin turned into a party member instead of him staying a one and done npc.)
@@Chaser547 those vocal folks were oh so wrong
Wow I really *really* like this Wyll waay more than the final version we got. He's much more.
righttt so much more interesting the wyll we got is flat & boring
The romance scene with wyll was so meaningful. It shows he has past trauma of being used in relationships where the power dynamic was literally binding hin with his abuser. The notes that hint him and mizora had a thing make even more sense when you think about how she must control him and keep him thinking he is happy with this pact.
Truly I think this old storyline of his is amazing and that’s saying something as I have not had one urge to get to wyll in his new version
I think they didn’t know where to go with it so they scrapped it. I also think it was too close to Astarion’s backstory or trauma. As the Es patches progressed Wyll was starting to be more manipulative specifically of a barbarian Tav. Again too close to Astarion and Gale
When I was meeting Mizora and I told her not to lay a finger on him. She said the ship has already sailed... I like paled..and started thinking that did she have sex with him. Poor Wyll
trauma trauma trauma trauma trauma
shut up. I swear that's all your vocabulary boils down to
@@greyngreyer5who hurt you?!
Supposedly they "didn't like how his story was being told" which. I mean is full release wyll 'better'? Hard disagree
my british friend said early access wyll was more "from the ends" and yeah he's right
not that his new VA bothered me or anything but this mismatch between how they clearly wanted to originally characterize him and how he talks now has been one of the more frustrating aspects for me. he went from just a bloke who happens to be in this situation to something else entirely. something that I'd argue is a bit uncoherent at times.
New Wyll isn't supposed to be, so that hardly matters.
Haha that makes sense
How could people not like him? He's so into his own legend.
Meanwhile, in the background, Shadowheart and Astarion are merging.
I feel like he has more personality in early access. He sounds more natural. I like the new voice actor too but his lines just sound like a caricature of Prince Charming or something.
They sound the same, they all do
@@miaomiiao what do you mean by that
@@TheLastCin all negros sound the same
I love release Wyll and the performance that Theo gave, that being said I like a lot of what I'm seeing here. This ties wylls story with mizora and the goblins right from the start. Yeah he has more flaws but if early access players had gotten to see Wylls character development and conclusion maybe theyd have liked him more. We definitely missed out on a deeper Wyll who could still have developed into the righteous character I love
I do not dislike the full realease version of Wyll, but having played early access I can't help but to wonder what could have been if they hadn't rewritten him. Especially since I feel like new Wyll is the least cooked companion we have with loose ends connecting him to his previous story in mind. The sending stone for an eye? It had purpose here, he was using it to contact Mizora. In the full realese we can ask Wyll about it, there even is the check for arcane Tavs to realise what it is. But thats the end of this story. I did a full origin Wyll playthrough in hope to get some special scenes with Mizora, thinking maybe thats when the sending stone comes to play. But no. Aside from ONE extra scene with Mizora during the first long rest, I felt I was playing a regular Tav who happend to be the son of the kidnapped duke. Rumor has it, Larian changed Wyll due to his unpopularity in early access, but I really don't understand why he had gotten the short end of the stick. EVERY companion was ruder, colder and bigger asshole in early access, they really toned them down. The only good thing that came out of this change is that we got Karlach as a fully fledged companion. But then again, Karlach has waaaay more unique interactions as an origin character playthrough then Wyll as a companion.
Black characters often get judged MUCH harsher for morally ambiguous decisions. I recon he got changed because of that. And in turn it prevented him from becoming a real fleshed out companion
@@saal0yep, it’s a damned if they do, damned if they don’t situation 💀
@@saal0 They were still making content additions over the time in updates so they could've added more yet chose to add... kissing animations.
I've seen videos where even basic dialogue reactivity that all the other origin characters have is missing for Wyll. They just dropped everything and it especially shows in his new ending.
@@saal0You should have seen the way people shat on him during the EA years. Every day people writing theses about how he's the most evil/detestable companion when meanwhile, you could slaughter an entire group of refugees and he was the only one to care. It was ridiculous.
Karlach was always going to be a full companion, for the record. Her OG voice and voicelines had all the origin and companion dialogues recorded already. It's just that she and Wyll weren't tied to each other at all.
I can't keep from staring at Astarion and shadowheart merging in the background casually.
But then again ppl hated laezel too but they didn't really change her character so it makes me wonder if they just didn't like wyll
I like the new voice actor but I do miss this one. He sounded smoother.
Thank you for preserving EA Wyll since he changed the most in release
It's interesting because old Wyll seems to have Theo's natural accent where new Wyll is using a different accent in Theo's skillset
Is it a different voice actor?
@@MithcorielYeah. OG Wyll is Lanre Malaolu.
I read the old actor had other projects and that's why they replaced him but if I was him I'd drop everything for BG3 😂
@@MandieCat yeah I bet he is kicking himself now, but I agree that he made a better Wyll (sorry new Wyll!)
I heard EA Wyll was superior in every way. We were robbed! He's funny! And interesting! And complex! Curse the fans who killed this version of Wyll.
One of the many examples of not listening to the fans.
I think there were some valid criticisms of Wyll in early access because this version of him overlaps with the other companions. However, with the change in VA and personality, the release version of Wyll is massively underdeveloped.
Wyll actually feels like a real person here. Kinda sad we didn't get this version, but I do enjoy Theo's portrayal regardless.
This Wyll was so much better of a character. Very sad to see the change they made
I love this sassy Wyll who struggles with the darker aspects of his personality. It makes so much more sense than the bland template of a character we got in the final version.
Some of these have been brought back. Calling Kagha a demon, the folk tale about the farmer and his daughter
Man I miss EA Wyll so much. His hatred and feud with the goblins just made him so much more involved with early Act 1. Plus, him being a monster hunter that still believes in the good of everyone, except for one specific race that hurt him personally, makes him SUCH a fascinating hypocrite and i would have loved to further explore this. You could either have him overcome his hatred, or use this to further corrupt him.
Also, with Myzora just showing up in camp, wasn't his sending stone eye kinda useless in the final game?
There barely are any goblins post Act 1, so what would be the point of that feud? It's nice for Act 1 and then it's just nothing.
@@yoursonisold8743There are still a lot of goblins in Act 2. Imagine if you torture the goblins in Moonrise and Wyll (of all people!) approves to that. Imagine if you approve of his stance on that too much and he also does it to other "evil" creatures, like he does with Karlach at the beginning of the game.
Ever heard of the trope of the too Lawful Paladin? A character so obsessed with what they believe is good that they cannot see the evil they actually cause, because they can always find a way to justify it? EA Wyll could have went down that path. "The rosd to hell is paved with good intentions" and so on.
But also, on a good run, the scene where you can kill the goblins in Moonrise could have been a turning point for EA Wyll. Like he confronts you about almost blowing your cover for some lowly gobbos, and you can confront him about his prevoncieved notions about it. Or hey, that was all in EA, imagine if the time spent rewriting Wyll was instead used to improve upon his existing character and adding more stuff his worldview clashes with.
@@Ellisepha That is a tiny moment in all of Act 2. And there are no goblins in Act 3 at all. My point wasnt that you cant do something with Wyll being overly aggeessive against all evil-doers, it was that tying him so intrinsically to the goblins specifically is pointless and reeks of "we only thought as far as Act 1" writing. Which is one of the reasons they changed him.
@@yoursonisold8743 doesn't good character writing come from a collection of those tiny moments? I think it would have fleshed out the character greatly + we're talking about an early access personality that got completely rewritten, if they had kept it, there would have been more examples down the line lol
shart and astarion fusing in the background really adds to this
When I played with Wyll during Early Access. I traveled with him quite often. And it felt he was well written as a character. After full launch he became shadow of former self. A shell of a previous character with pretty much no story. Wyll deserves justice!...
Now I never recruit him and my pwrty mostly always consists of : Shadowheart, Lae'Zel, Astarion/Minthara. Sometimes in act 3 I do recruit Minsc As a Barbarian and Jaeheira as a healer. But now when I thought of it It would be quite interesting to have Legit Hero's party : Origins Wyll, Jaeheira, Minsc and Halsin.
17:17 Yeeeeeees!! The "I'm coming as fast as I can." line !
Damn, I much more prefer this Wyll over final version Wyll! I found him a bit lame so he never left my camp. Kinda wish we had this one instead
Yeah.. the only reason I dislike him was because of his over exaggerated goody two shoes... He needed to be chaotic for being a blade of frontiers.
Early Access Wyll makes me so sad because it's very clear Larian have a bias against him. No other character would get completely scratched and rewritten right before release just to never get properly finished despite constant updates for the entire year after release. Fact he got almost 5 hours less content than other characters and hardest romance to trigger due to no scene in act 1 is hard to excuse considering how much content others got post-release and the way Theo is treated by both devs and fandom.
Atp it feels like Larian regrets putting him into the game and that's depressing.
oh this was AMAZING to see, i've never seen these cutscenes before and this wyll is so different :0
Wow, I have never seen this early access wyll, he is damn cool! I like the thing with finding mizora and that he is more eager to kill the bad guys. He is a more complex character this way.
I like the Wyll we got in the game but man, I can't help but think Larian should have stuck to their guns and smoothed out the problems with his original pitch rather than pivoting in the final year of release to appease vocal fans and make him a more clean-cut hero.
It might at least have helped the problems with Wyll feeling chronically under-developed.
Thanks for sharing! Commenting late since I was hoping his character would be expanded on in the last seven patches, but nothing beyond wrap up stuff... This Jon Snow / realistic thrust into action version of him is so much better than the pc version. They just made him more like Gale in retrospect. Even the goblin interaction is a 180 since it adds to his backstory and could've taught you the value of toggling on non lethal (something i learned late). RIP multi dimensional character/story Wyll 😢
Remember what they took from us
Larian should have stuck to their guns and kept this version of Wyll. Although, I think some things about full release Wyll are better. Such as his pact with Mizora coming from him saving the world and them not having an intimate(ish) relationship. Don't get me wrong, I love good characters. But if not done well, then they can be one dimensional, which full release Wyll is. And worse is that he is one-dimensial in a game full of complex characters. You can still have someone be good and complex at the same time (see Gale).
I like seeing so many people saying they like this Wyll, but geez it felt like the entire internet hated EA Wyll and they were happy he was getting recast and redone.
There was a big shift in fan bases during the development of this game
@@jons5478 Usually I've got nothing for respect for the long term fans, heck knows I've been an og fan in fandoms that have blown up and gone in a totally different direction and how frustrating that can be, but if they cost us this Wyll? I high key have to question their taste. >3>
Yeah people said Wyll was an asshole which I find weird in a game with a lot worse people. People painted his character flaws as "he says was thing but does another" like that wasn't the fucking point. I do think Larian should have stuck to their guns.
I think they overcorrected big time though I think Theo is a better actor.
Current wyll felt like a dork to me and not the lovable kind , this wyll feels like a reclouse hero , still dorky but less preachy
Tbf people bitched about every companion being "evil" in EA. As a result, Shadowheart got tuned down a lot on release, but lucky for her, her story is largely intact. Gale is less "sus" than in EA but his story isn't changed. Lae'zel and Astarion didn't get changed and while there are a lot of edge lords complained and killed them because they are "rude", both got great story arcs for their "good" and "bad" endings. Wyll unfortunately got completely scrapped, so he is the most unfinished origin companion along with Karlach but at least Karlach gets a few memorable scenes in act3 where Wyll got sidelines in pretty much everything.
Would that we could have had THIS Wyll instead. Sadge. Truly, he would have been an amazing choice for a canon main character. Pulled into so many directions - the mistrust of the Flaming Fist, his hate for the goblins and his cruel streak, his desire for Mizora, the tender feelings he has for Tav - his story could have been so much more interesting. I might have to write fanfic about him lol
"May we be free from the devils that might bind us.... and the devils that already do."
That line goes so hard. i would have loved to see more of this from Wyll in game
wyll's "it's like i always sometimes say" here reminds me of early access wyll's "there's an old saying i just made up." i wish they had kept that version of him 😭
Funny how in every single word there is something I can point to and say "I like this better than what we got". Early Access was a blessing and a curse. Jeez
Early access was a masterpiece in the making, the full version was a rushed dissapointment, with a lot of cut content and a slight tint of certain virus. Still, probably one of my favorite games ever. Shame that I could have been a masterpiece if they didn't change so much.
@@miaomiiao idk how it got game of the year tbh. Hell, I think early access idea was closer to a game worthy of the name of Baldur's Gate lol. INstead we got "you like sex? Here is the sex. Take all the sex". And somehow that was the best rpg ever. Fucking hell
@@greyngreyer5 okay, I think this is a gross exaggeration. I didn't play the early access version, and I feel kinda left out, but the finished product was indeed a great RPG. I'm not saying the best game ever, or the best RPG ever, but a great RPG nonetheless, and I'd even say that it was the best RPG in 2023 from the list of nominees. It could have been better, and I'm kinda torn on the end product myself, but it's still an excellent game
Not as good as it could have been != not good
@@greyngreyer5 it's was good. It could have been spectacular. Greedy developers
it is unfortunate that we didn't get this wyll but I am amazed that larian completely changed wyll and there is no hint of this wyll in full release. Like when they said they want to revize a character they revized it from a start oh my god if it was any other game company he would barely change yet here we have a totally new wyll which impresses me a lot!
“An old legend I just made up” 😂
Got to say I find this Wyll much more entertaining especially as at least one of my Tavs - the Bard obviously - was essentially a scam that turned out to be pretty decent at the Hero stuff but was terrified that his party would find out.
with old wyll it kinda seemed like he had sold his soul to be the hero he wanted to be. it made him more complex.
OG Wyll was a hell of a lot more interesting not only considering his connection with Mizora but also him possibly having to dance the line of hero and villan to save her
I immediately loved Wyll in EA (though his introduction was where I had to stop playing bc I was on my old MacBook at the time, and it kept crashing 😭).
I remember him becoming an immediate favorite, and then when I finally was able to play full release a few months later, it felt like the same vibe wasn’t there 😭 It’s a bit jarring seeing this again, now! I wish they would have kept him a bit more flawed, like this. It makes him a lot more personable!
Whenever I played the current version I always thought Wyll was the flattest character I’ve ever met and now it makes so much sense.
They gave him so much depth and character but they decided to cut this entire aspect of him and leave in early access and now it makes so much sense. He’s one of my favourite go to characters for whenever I’m adventuring, it hurts to see how much we lost.
I don't understand why they changed Wyll so much...? He was a far more interesting character in EA. We got more character development with him in this 30-minute video than we ever did over the course of the entire game. Obviously that's only my opinion, but... idk... it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me - especially considering the emotional depths that some of the other characters showcase (even a few NPCs are better written than final release Wyll!)
I like his VA here as well, though I must say I love Theo and I can't see Wyll being voiced by anyone else but him now lol.
So, why was Wyll _specifically_ singled out for this massive change? Can anybody tell me...? Because I would really love to know.
Also, thank you so much to OP for preserving this! 😊
gamer bros bombarded them with complaints saying he was too contradictory and morally corrupt to be a likeable companion. meanwhile astarion is 2x worse and he didn't get the same kinda flack. hmmmmmmmmm i wonder what the double standard here could be
@@guacamojo Yeah, it definitely seems sus af, especially when you consider that literally everyone in this damn game is contradictory and morally corrupt (to _wildly_ varying degrees lol). There are no real heroes here. Nobody is completely honest, nobody is perfect... *nobody.* And that is exactly how it should be; it's one of the many things I love about this game.
...But it's also the entire reason why Wyll sticks out so much: Because all in all, he's just so... _unrealistic._ Even in epic fantasy RPG terms.
I hope someday we can move past this nonsense and just write amazing stories without worrying about what other people think or consider. It just ruins creativity. It ruins what should be beautiful works of art. That's really all it ever does.
@@justinburchette
I disagree, Karlach is morally good at an annoying level. Her character is basically “I’m the goodest good that has ever gooded. I don’t like anything bad happening to good people, because that’s not good”
There’s no ambiguity or grey. From the moment we meet her we are immediately shown she is not a bad person and literally everyone likes it when we don’t attack her. Then she never changes one iota during the game.
@@rickkcir2151 Yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't know how I managed to forget about Karlach lol 🤦🏻♂️
Well, aside from her at least, everyone else (besides Wyll) is pretty morally grey. I guess in that case Wyll sticks out to me for two reasons:
*1.* He once _was_ a more complex character, but was then rewritten to be a goody-good.
*2.* Karlach was a late addition to the roster (afaik), but she was _always_ a goody-good.
Thinking about it like that now, I wonder if there's some type of development-level connection between those two. Obviously there is from a story perspective... but now I'm wondering if at one point they decided they wanted a purely good party member, and so they wrote Karlach to fill that roll - but then somewhere along the line they dropped Wyll's more complex nature and subsequently made him a "Karlach, Jr." (for whatever reason), and then decided to intertwine their stories...? Idk, man, maybe I'm totally off here lol 🤷🏻♂️
_(Edited because I can't spell things.)_
@@guacamojoIt wasn't a complaint about Wyll, it was a complaint about literally every companion in the early access. Larian spent the entire EA period basically toning down the edginess in companions and making them more "good" so that there would be more variety. They singled out Wyll for a full rewrite because he was the least popular companion in early access according to their data. They also added Karlach to the game in response to these complaints.
"I didn't become the Blade of Frontiers overnight" hehe
Halfway through the video now, this Wyll is very intriguing. I got used to the new Wyll's voice so hearing this one sounds a bit weird, but it's growing on me fast. Sometimes you see the EA videos and wonder "why did they change it, why did they cut it out". Watching this I can see both good and bad changes but everyone has a preference, they may have liked stuff that I don't.
I love how in this version Wyll *could've* told you about Mizora, but just chose not to. It makes a lot of sense, and it's much more interesting than him "not being able to" like in final release. Makes it sound like they were trying to justify why he didn't just tattle his whole backstory to a stranger, as if they even needed to.
All this, and you can't even be understanding of Wyll's situation in most dialogue choices, even as a warlock. It's as if they couldn't make up their mind about how the story should go about treating him.
God I wish we'd gotten this Wyll. Such an interesting guy.
All we could've had... 💔
Wow, he has so much much spiky character here. I like regular wyll, but this one has certainly more layers
It’s a bit ironic I remember in EA people complained the companions were to confrontational all the time…. Now people complain they are too easy to please. Difficult balance I guess 😂
Gale's in a kinda similar spot - in EA, the magic items he needed to consume were very limited, and had to be actually powerful. The Idol of Sylvanus and the Hellblade you can get on the Nautiloid are some I can remember. This was also one of the incentives to give the player to actually consider stealing the Idol.
I both like and hate that Gale's Hunger is so easy to satiate now. I think he'd be hated a lot more if they kept the restrictions, but I also think that it would have been more interesting and engaging for the players to have to make difficult choices like this.
My goodness I like this voice actor and character so much more than what we ended up with. I generally just leave Wyll in the grove now because he's so dull.
Wyll takes a lot to warm up to because he seems so lack luster compared to the rest despite having the biggest tie ins to the story. I think EA Wyll was a lot, and I can see how some of the problems of why fans maybe didn't like him was due to him having so many ties to the main plot and inserting himself almost as the leader of the group. He's overly cocky but preaches about being a hero, which again I can see how that would rub people the wrong way. I think I would have liked a more roughed out Wyll in final, one who is DESPERATE to be a hero but can't seem to make the right choices because his pact is acting like a double edged sword. Live Wyll is like.....he's there. Larian should have blended EA and Live Wyll into a more balanced character
I miss him :((
A Wyll I’d actually use
Damn, I really like THIS Wyll 😯👍Theo did splendid job, but i do prefer this voice 👉👈 Many thanks for uploading this video! 😃👍
The thing I miss the most was him having a 'condition' to joining. It made so much sense somehow. Also the fact that a kobold took his eye. I thought that was really quite funny lol
Despite what others say I really do love the sweet version of Wyll we have now but damn I love this one so much more. Such a shame that we missed out.
Holy crap I would have actually liked Wyll if this was the Wyll we got in full release. The things he says here have weight. I also love the less posh accent for him.
Instead we've got a flat exposite on what just happened with zero emotion character. And when he swears it sounds like a primary school child testing out swearing whereas the other characters that do swear: for Karlach it's a dialect choice, and for Astarion it's a rarity that comes out when he's anxious and it seems to have weight and purpose.
I did a run where the only companions I had were Lae'zel, Astarion, and Wyll. And the only time I really felt I got an original thought from him or any emotion was around Durge's story in Act 3.
Overall he just lacks emotion. Even if his dad dies, even if he watches his dad die in the Iron Throne, he just kind of shrugs it off. Someone with such a complicated relationship with their parent would have a complex emotional reaction to the death of that parent. We don't really get that here.
Every other character, I had reasons for disliking them as a first impression (except Karlach, she is perfect 😂) and how each one grew on me over time. Some, like Astarion and Gale grew on me quickly (in spite of me HAAAATING them both at first). Others, like Lae'zel and Shadowheart required more time (although my impressions of both were started more favorably than with the boys). I've not ever had that with Wyll. I can fix him so that he can hit an enemy. I can't fix him so that I feel like doing his story.
i miss this sm 😢
Oh this is interesting! This is the first time I see EA Wyll's story. I must say that I really prefer his EA storyline. It's far more interesting than the release version. Now Wyll's character seems so underdeveloped compared to the other companions. The writers did such an amazing job with the other members of the party but current Wyll... I don't know, it feels like they completely rushed through writing his storyline.
I absolutely love Theo Solomon's performance and I think his voice is a better fit for a noble person like Wyll. I like both actors but Theo's performance is a little more posh.
I wish the writers at Larian wouldn't have changed everything about Wyll so drastically. 😢
I used to find EA Wyll annoying, mostly because of his obsession with the goblins. But, man. Release Wyll just feels flat in comparison.
Well, they were right to change it, but maybe too much? I feel like Mizora makes more sense being captured seperately, chasing her down to free her would make her seem relateable.
@dorianleakey Nah, I completely agree.
Honestly, I want to be annoyed with what it cost us (this more complex and interesting Wyll), but the goblin thing DID feel like the weakest part of this by a mile.
Don't know that they had to go full Tiamat threat level re: Wyll's being pulled into the pact with Mizora, but surely there could have been a happy medium more interesting then "some random jackass goblins that are conveniently at the camp you need to explore".
Imagine you got captured, tortured, and lost your eye to goblins. You would probably kill them too... Also he watched a whole village get ransacked by them as well and unable to stop it. How can you even find that annoying...
@@bobbobby475 it just contrasts with his noble hero thing, I am amazed you don't understand the tropes involved here.
The new Wyll is a goody two shoes and because of that he is not believable. This Wyll gets angry, has dark desires and
had more character and ego - something the legendary Blade of Frontiers would have. I feel bad for the actor and the character.
like everyone else, i like this version way more because it's so fleshed out. i wouldn't mind the rewrite half as much if it wasn't so last minute and left wyll as a hollow husk of a character
13:00 a different time. a different wyll
god i wish theyd kept this. i wanted to see him grow. instead release wyll got barely any content :/ it was disappointing.
As someone who romanced Wyll in my first bg3 run, there were so many elements of this Wyll that I loved so much more than his final version. I do love the VA they ended up going with, this guy was very talented, but something sounded a little too modern about his voice and like he was trying to old timey (kind of like having an iPhone face, but auditorily). I will say I LOVED the elements of having this mixed relationship with Mizora and think that would have made the final release romance so much more interesting with it being this kind of unwilling love triangle for Wyll between the person he cares about and the cambion he can't say no to. I do feel like his motivations here didn't make a ton of sense and I feel like his story would have run out of steam a bit after he extracts his revenge on the goblins. Ideally I think having a blend of this Wyll with final release Wyll would have been so much better. Making his backstory be one of "my dad was perfect and I knew I could never live up so I just became a little spoiled brat who then was sent away to join the Fists and finally felt like I could be a hero in my own right and make my father proud, only to be tricked by a cambion and come back as a disgraced warrior and be disowned by my father" and then having that be the driver for why he wants to be the hero would just make more impact I feel.
Interesting how the voice actor was playing Wyll with a much lower class accent in EA. He sounds a bit like a low class guy from Coventry instead of the rich boy speaking RP like he did in the main release.
15:35 That's the hottest Wyll has ever been to me. He has no edge in the final release.
i miss chaotic good wyll :(
I love this wyll compared to the one we got. feels a lot more relatable and flawed (in a good storytelling way). I probably would have let him travel around with me if he acted like this.
I never played EA, and Wyll is still my fave companion post-EA/whatever the current version is called...but damn, this is a really interesting route for him. I feel bad for the VA, it sounds like he was having a blast performing Wyll.
I'm glad they got rid of the londoner accent for a more "queen's english" since he is nobility, but I do like the personality he has here. It's just a little bit cheeky. Not full on Astarion cockiness but a little bit of self deprecation and playfulness
I hope for a mod that mixes EA Wyll and Live Wyll. This I would love.
This is what happens when artists compromise and pander to the vocal few. Larian should have just told their story.
Like basically everyone else here i like EA Wyll better, so much more personality
He kinda reminds me of Ben 10 as a teenager, arrogant but has the skill and legend to back up his inflated ego, and genuine generosity and altruism despite ego
Everyone who prefers Wyll this way: I hear you and respect it. However playing with him was torture. He was annoying and a goodie two shoes except when he gave into goblin urge. He also was one of the hardest to romance without bugs.
Know that the Wyll we see in this video gets the benefit of someone modding + not having to listen to him whine on the road. I played 300~ hours of early access and even on runs where I tried to make Wyll the focus, it was a let down.
The Wyll we have now is better because his plot line makes sense. Is he a super lawful good aligned boy scout? Sure. He's also got more meaningful depth than the chaos kid from EA who likely would have destroyed the grove if it had a goblin druid
I like my boy being cocky ngl
Ee's a lahndan geezer, innit.
what the hell, this story is SO MUCH better than what we ended up getting, Why did they change it?
Why is this version of Wyll so charming and sexy. That romance scene was sooo good!! And i really feel empathy for his character and the stakes at hand. Oh this is really hurtful to watch knowing it is not in the final product.
He’s so attractive still omg
Honestly never going to forgive everyone in EA who griped about him so much that Larian restarted him from scratch, likely resulting in his utter lack of content compared to other characters. :\
He’s less boring, more charismatic, and less robotic too.
I wish they kept him man
Oh I'd be so much more into this Wyll. Though I must admit the final voice actor they had is more talented.
I never knew Wyll had this much swag what happened??
I feel like the reason they might have cut this is because in some ways he's far too similar to Astarion. They're definitely different but there's something about this version of Wyll that makes him seem like a dialed back version of Astarion.
And then he became a male version of Karlach... I'd rather have kept this Wyll
@@16Vagabond I'll be honest I don't really see that. They're both good characters but their mannerisms and the way they react to situations is completely different. I see what you mean though and I would say I'd rather have this one as well. I understand they did the change but I think vanilla hero wasn't the best choice.
@thetommyshades5347 I think they should have combined the two.
The son of the Grand Duke, exiled after saving the city by making a pact with a devil who is delighted by making him unable to explain to his father why he has a devil on his shoulder just to see him being renounced by his father and exiled ? I can definitely see him as a person that ends up wanting to control the narrative and be seen as way more of a hero than he truly is