Spiritual gifts are not given to edify ourselves, it is to edify the church..that's what Paul was saying to the church in Corinth...tongues were actual languages, not unintelligible gibberish..a sign for the UNbeliever..not believer. It's not a private prayer language. It's a miraculous sign gift given for the purpose of revelation and judgment.
@@songbird9444 Re: "Spiritual gifts are not given to edify ourselves..." 1 Corinthians 14:4 NASB2020 [4] The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church. What does "edifies himself" mean here, to you? Edit: “edifies” is the same Greek word as in 1 Corinthians 8:1, which ends with “love edifies people.” I hear sincerity and goodness in the use of that word “edifies” there, as I think Paul is always referring to something good when he describes what love does or is. I also hear sincerity and goodness in his use of “edifies” in 1 Cor. 14:4. Does someone want to make a case for an opposing claim, using Scripture?
@@StEpHeNno22 If you read the entire chapter and not cherry pick a verse to fit your false theology, you will know exactly what Paul is saying. He who speaks in a tongue (foreign language) in a room full of natives, with no interpreter present edifies himself and not the church therefore serving no purpose because no one understands him. Only God. It's not a compliment, nor is it encouraging others with spiritual gifts to use it for their own self gratification.
@@StEpHeNno22 Tongues is a sign for the UNbeliever..not believer (1 Corinthians 14:22)...so how does it benefit the UNbeliever if you're at home alone speaking gibberish that you yourself don't understand?..
Id like to see 3 interpters write down the translation from one tongue speaker and then read those interpretations afterwards (all done live) and see if they all match:
The crazy thing Is they would be like "every interpreter heard a different message and they are all from God" just like on Pentecost they heard in their own language they would say that all got a different message and all equally from God. It's ridiculous.
That's true speaking in tongues is not the only gift that confirms you to be believer and spiritual. It is one of the gifts. When people focus on speaking in tongues why don't they look at the scriptures that confirm God is not a God of chaos and confusion. I have closely encountered my personal experience on how even a new comer to church can speak in tongues if you stand along with an unbeliever for more than 10 minutes. I have seen it happen in my life. God is concerned about heart not about spiritual stage show.
If i may ask, what translation you get this from ? I am asking for clarification I am not a troll, online is difficult so many bitter and rude obnoxious people here, not me though.
@@joshuawoodin I agree it is rare to have a good conversation. To answer your question. I can’t find in the prophets or prophecy for man to speak in a language or tongue that no one knows or ever heard of.😊
@@JJ-Mischyes well put, the angelic language meant to edify the self from them to God, sure but that's a personal worship thing and not to be a public display, as tounges has a bad/negative connotation with it, because of the bethel's and other hyper charismatics who make it a community theater event of shaking and babbling and alot of spiritual abuse in these environments, but the ones that do this biblically and have an interpretor of tounges there, that's fine, but as they say the bad apples ruins the whole bunch. And it's sad in any culture when an action and/or habit is rooted in compulsion and peer pressure, any way we cut this is spiritual abuse, even speaking not theologically in say a public school or a group of teens that pressure another peer to partake in mind altering substances and simply say, well everyone's doing it, this attitude is manipulation in any community.
@@JJ-MischI asked because I looked at Amos 3:7 and I don't see this being a prophecy of a hidden language. And I looked at 5-ish different translations and I see that God reveals his plans to his servants, I don't see this as a prophecy about a hidden language.
I’ve been to plenty of churches that practice tongues with interpretation. I’ve also seen it on tv and online. You need to broaden what you watch and not just the so called popular ministries. Also there are different types of tongues: public and private. There isn’t a general rule for both. It’s conditional.
@@RobTheTruth if you read it in the right context you can plainly see that (public) tongues used for conveying a message to edify the body. That must have an interpretation ( 1 Corinthians 14:27-28). The personal/private tongues are used for glorifying God and speaking to Him. This edifies the speaker. We don’t need interpretation for this, but should ask the Holy Spirit for the interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2-4, 14-17). It’s obvious that different types of tongues are being explained because of the different conditions Paul sets. If not, Paul would be contradicting himself. private/public is implied in the scriptures. The word trinity is not in the Bible, but we can see it in the Bible.
All good, i muscled through it. But great discussion to all you brothers involved. I am subed now blessings to all your future endeavors and goals !!!@@Bibledingers
Wow, so JD believes all the people on the day of Pentecost had the spiritgift of interpretation EVEN THOUGH they were not yet converted. We see the true gift of languages in Acts and everything after that should be interpreted with that understanding.
It’s has nothing to do with contradiction. It can be an earthly language or a spiritual language. Even when we moan and groan, the Holy Spirit makes it a language or expression to God. Language is nothing but sounds and syllables put together to convey a message.
@@YehudaHalevi247 How so.?Just think of what you're saying. Do you honestly believe God would give us the ability to talk in a language that makes no absolute sense at all?
@@RobTheTruth I read it. It is not inward. If it was inward it wouldn’t be a groan. The same Greek word for groan is used in Acts 7:34. In the Greek alalētos (too deep for words) means unutterable. That means too great, intense, or awful to describe. I by no means am saying that scripture is about tongues. What I am saying is if He can do this, then He could do that.
Use reasoning just as Paul did in the synagogues. Why would we need a " heavenly language?" Whos to say thr language we speak is not the language of heaven? God gave us language. Never did God nor angels speak in some other language nor needed to. The Spirit doesnt need to speak yo intercede for us since God knows the mind of the Spirit for they are One.
So if only those understand the language, who have the gift of interpretation, did all in acts 2 have that gift then? 😂 Weird interpretation of a text that obvious states the context of no one in the congregation to understand the language, not generally. We have other examples where it's said "nothing", "no one" and everybody agrees that it's not meant absolutely for every circumstance.
All tongues don’t sound the same… i haven’t her them all sounding the exact same… i’m not sure where that narrative has come from. i know for a fact that my tongues sound different from other ls i have heard… it’s like any other language… spanish sound different from english and there are some words might sound similar
I wish there would’ve been more pushback on the argument that the gift of tongues is for self-edification. Paul wasn’t saying that self-edification is what the gift of tongues is for, but rather that’s what the improper use produced, which is why it’s improper since the purpose of the gifts is to edify the church. In 1Cor 12:7 Paul argues the gifts are for the common good of the church. Ch 13 contains “if” propositions to make the point that the selfish use of gifts was worthless and that it is love that mature believers are aiming for. Then in Ch 14 Paul is saying that the wrong way they are practicing tongues is only edifying the self, which is not the purpose for it- he would rather speak 5 words with his mind than ten thousand in a tongue. Verse 12 tells us to seek to abound for the edification of the church, not yourself. Then in verses 20-25 he tells us the purpose of the gift of tongues: a sign to the unbelieving Jews and it has no purpose in the church because believers are edified by the clear teaching of God’s Word (which also serves to convict the unbeliever causing him to worship rather than him thinking the believers are mad)
Id like to see 3 interpters write down the translation from one tongue speaker and then read those interpretations afterwards (all done live) and see if they all match:
Thank you for bringing this topic on this platform its so needed.
Pray in tongues at home to be edified - but it does exist and millions speak it.’ It’s an amazing gift
Spiritual gifts are not given to edify ourselves, it is to edify the church..that's what Paul was saying to the church in Corinth...tongues were actual languages, not unintelligible gibberish..a sign for the UNbeliever..not believer. It's not a private prayer language. It's a miraculous sign gift given for the purpose of revelation and judgment.
Yes! 🙏🏻 I agree, thank you, Our_Daily_Bread_With_JB. 🙂
@@songbird9444
Re: "Spiritual gifts are not given to edify ourselves..."
1 Corinthians 14:4 NASB2020
[4] The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
What does "edifies himself" mean here, to you?
Edit: “edifies” is the same Greek word as in 1 Corinthians 8:1, which ends with “love edifies people.”
I hear sincerity and goodness in the use of that word “edifies” there, as I think Paul is always referring to something good when he describes what love does or is. I also hear sincerity and goodness in his use of “edifies” in 1 Cor. 14:4. Does someone want to make a case for an opposing claim, using Scripture?
@@StEpHeNno22 If you read the entire chapter and not cherry pick a verse to fit your false theology, you will know exactly what Paul is saying. He who speaks in a tongue (foreign language) in a room full of natives, with no interpreter present edifies himself and not the church therefore serving no purpose because no one understands him. Only God. It's not a compliment, nor is it encouraging others with spiritual gifts to use it for their own self gratification.
@@StEpHeNno22 Tongues is a sign for the UNbeliever..not believer (1 Corinthians 14:22)...so how does it benefit the UNbeliever if you're at home alone speaking gibberish that you yourself don't understand?..
It’s such a luxury that these are even “issues” and conversations that we have. So interesting.
Id like to see 3 interpters write down the translation from one tongue speaker and then read those interpretations afterwards (all done live) and see if they all match:
The crazy thing Is they would be like "every interpreter heard a different message and they are all from God" just like on Pentecost they heard in their own language they would say that all got a different message and all equally from God. It's ridiculous.
I appreciate you guys. So for salvation speaking in tongues is not necessary but in the book of Acts some speak In tongues and some don't.
That's true speaking in tongues is not the only gift that confirms you to be believer and spiritual. It is one of the gifts. When people focus on speaking in tongues why don't they look at the scriptures that confirm God is not a God of chaos and confusion. I have closely encountered my personal experience on how even a new comer to church can speak in tongues if you stand along with an unbeliever for more than 10 minutes. I have seen it happen in my life. God is concerned about heart not about spiritual stage show.
The pastors of @RemnantRadio treat tongues with order in their churches… have them on
Working on it!!
Cool! will look out for it!
Question at 24:00 ... I know of many pentecostal churches (hundreds), & all but a few do it the right way.
In light of Amos 3:7 is there a prophecy of an unknown language?
If i may ask, what translation you get this from ? I am asking for clarification I am not a troll, online is difficult so many bitter and rude obnoxious people here, not me though.
@@joshuawoodin I agree it is rare to have a good conversation.
To answer your question. I can’t find in the prophets or prophecy for man to speak in a language or tongue that no one knows or ever heard of.😊
@@joshuawoodin I’m looking at all the different translations they all say pretty much the same thing
@@JJ-Mischyes well put, the angelic language meant to edify the self from them to God, sure but that's a personal worship thing and not to be a public display, as tounges has a bad/negative connotation with it, because of the bethel's and other hyper charismatics who make it a community theater event of shaking and babbling and alot of spiritual abuse in these environments, but the ones that do this biblically and have an interpretor of tounges there, that's fine, but as they say the bad apples ruins the whole bunch. And it's sad in any culture when an action and/or habit is rooted in compulsion and peer pressure, any way we cut this is spiritual abuse, even speaking not theologically in say a public school or a group of teens that pressure another peer to partake in mind altering substances and simply say, well everyone's doing it, this attitude is manipulation in any community.
@@JJ-MischI asked because I looked at Amos 3:7 and I don't see this being a prophecy of a hidden language. And I looked at 5-ish different translations and I see that God reveals his plans to his servants, I don't see this as a prophecy about a hidden language.
I know many churches that do it in order- the Baptist you statement is not all Pentecostals do that some do.
I’ve been to plenty of churches that practice tongues with interpretation. I’ve also seen it on tv and online. You need to broaden what you watch and not just the so called popular ministries.
Also there are different types of tongues: public and private. There isn’t a general rule for both. It’s conditional.
Where are the private ones in the Bible
@@RobTheTruth if you read it in the right context you can plainly see that (public) tongues used for conveying a message to edify the body. That must have an interpretation ( 1 Corinthians 14:27-28).
The personal/private tongues are used for glorifying God and speaking to Him. This edifies the speaker. We don’t need interpretation for this, but should ask the Holy Spirit for the interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2-4, 14-17).
It’s obvious that different types of tongues are being explained because of the different conditions Paul sets. If not, Paul would be contradicting himself.
private/public is implied in the scriptures. The word trinity is not in the Bible, but we can see it in the Bible.
Is anyone getting bad audio, or is it just me ?
:( yeah we had some technical difficulties. We tried a new program and it was muffling our mics
All good, i muscled through it. But great discussion to all you brothers involved. I am subed now blessings to all your future endeavors and goals !!!@@Bibledingers
Wow, so JD believes all the people on the day of Pentecost had the spiritgift of interpretation EVEN THOUGH they were not yet converted.
We see the true gift of languages in Acts and everything after that should be interpreted with that understanding.
God reversed Babel . That's the point of pentecost
@@RobTheTruth amen
Ok that comment JP now you must join GodLogic in islamic polemics you went all in with that animal comment.
Speaking in tongues is a known language, period. Anything other than that is absolutely rubbish. The bible does not contradict itself.
It’s has nothing to do with contradiction. It can be an earthly language or a spiritual language. Even when we moan and groan, the Holy Spirit makes it a language or expression to God. Language is nothing but sounds and syllables put together to convey a message.
@@YehudaHalevi247no the groaning is internal not verbal. Just read it
@@YehudaHalevi247 How so.?Just think of what you're saying. Do you honestly believe God would give us the ability to talk in a language that makes no absolute sense at all?
@@RobTheTruth I read it. It is not inward. If it was inward it wouldn’t be a groan. The same Greek word for groan is used in Acts 7:34. In the Greek alalētos (too deep for words) means unutterable. That means too great, intense, or awful to describe.
I by no means am saying that scripture is about tongues. What I am saying is if He can do this, then He could do that.
@@LoveHimMORE you are correct. I find that’s those who don’t believe in praying in tongues ignores that scripture.
JP can't spell bible. Remember, he embraces Open Theology, which is completely heretical. Please don't look to him for biblical interpretation.
Use reasoning just as Paul did in the synagogues.
Why would we need a " heavenly language?"
Whos to say thr language we speak is not the language of heaven? God gave us language.
Never did God nor angels speak in some other language nor needed to. The Spirit doesnt need to speak yo intercede for us since God knows the mind of the Spirit for they are One.
can you explain what it means when paul says, if i pray in a tounge my spirit prays?
So if only those understand the language, who have the gift of interpretation, did all in acts 2 have that gift then? 😂
Weird interpretation of a text that obvious states the context of no one in the congregation to understand the language, not generally.
We have other examples where it's said "nothing", "no one" and everybody agrees that it's not meant absolutely for every circumstance.
No I explained this in the live stream
Amen
All tongues don’t sound the same… i haven’t her them all sounding the exact same… i’m not sure where that narrative has come from. i know for a fact that my tongues sound different from other ls i have heard… it’s like any other language… spanish sound different from english and there are some words might sound similar
I think you need a female on this panel I would love to speak on this topic
I wish there would’ve been more pushback on the argument that the gift of tongues is for self-edification. Paul wasn’t saying that self-edification is what the gift of tongues is for, but rather that’s what the improper use produced, which is why it’s improper since the purpose of the gifts is to edify the church.
In 1Cor 12:7 Paul argues the gifts are for the common good of the church. Ch 13 contains “if” propositions to make the point that the selfish use of gifts was worthless and that it is love that mature believers are aiming for. Then in Ch 14 Paul is saying that the wrong way they are practicing tongues is only edifying the self, which is not the purpose for it- he would rather speak 5 words with his mind than ten thousand in a tongue. Verse 12 tells us to seek to abound for the edification of the church, not yourself. Then in verses 20-25 he tells us the purpose of the gift of tongues: a sign to the unbelieving Jews and it has no purpose in the church because believers are edified by the clear teaching of God’s Word (which also serves to convict the unbeliever causing him to worship rather than him thinking the believers are mad)
Id like to see 3 interpters write down the translation from one tongue speaker and then read those interpretations afterwards (all done live) and see if they all match: