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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- I am finally finishing this unintentional series on the Furrion Chill RV Roof A/C. Almost exactly one year ago, I replaced a broken Carrier roof A/C with what, I thought at the time, would be a reliable and quiet roof A/C, the Furrion Chill. While the A/C cooling was never the problem, the thermostat control was awful. Furrion installed the temperature sensor inside the air box and no matter how I tried, the A/C would suck in its own cold air and satisfy the temperature setting very quickly. I relocated the sensor outside the box temporarily while I researched the problem and brought everyone along the way. Thanks to many viewers and commenters on the channel, I discovered that Furrion's "upgraded" tstat does not solve the problem either, it only solves the furnace temperature problem. So today I permanently relocate the sensor to the wall by running a new harness and testing the system out. Hopefully this video helps others with the same issue.
Thanks for watching!!
FLIR phone camera: a.co/d/7u3JMrn
Micro Air Easy Touch: www.microair.net/
This is why I watch this man's videos... Gets his teeth in something and won't let go until it's right. 👍
Lippert is quickly becoming a monopoly in the RV industry. Not only is this bad for economics, anyone who knows anything about RVs can tell you that’s a bad thing for the RV industry.
Bad for goverments too ,eventually
And all the crap they sell now comes from overseas, mostly china. The metals are of very poor quality.
Your attitude does not reflect the indoor temperature of that rv. How do you maintain such positivity? I would be experiencing major heat induced anger and freustration.
I absolutely would thank you for doing this Furon AC. I installed one in my Food truck and it’s never worked right and now I know the problem. Thanks again for putting out great videos.
Thank you for calling out Furrion on their poor engineering, service and management.
James, you went the extra 10 miles, instead of just one extra mile! 🏃♂️ Great job!🏆
I would love to see you install a mini-split AC in an RV. These roof AC units are just terrible. They are located as close to your head as you can get, and they are so loud because they use the entire roof as a speaker cone, shaking it in the middle like that. My Winnebago routes the AC ducting in the roof which is heated by the sun. I couldn't engineer a worse installation than that.
Once you go with the mini split, you won't miss the rooftop. It's so quiet and efficient. I decided to permanently remove my rooftop unit and install a skylight instead.
Well said and by removing the rooftop ones there's less wind resistance, I'm with you
Thank you for making so many videos to educate us. I always search your videos first when I need to do anything on my RV. What I really appreciate is that you do everything with integrity and explain your thinking process and re-engineering behind your solutions for the manufacturers screw ups.
A monopoly is a game being played in the Rv Industry. Have you heard about the Lippert trailer frame problems! One reported thru TH-cam had 17 broken welds... Grand Design. From the hitch support thru thr living space. The floor was caving.
Great follow up video! Surprised that Furrion didn’t use this as an opportunity to do the right thing….
You and me both!
@@AZExpert everyone knows lippert doesn't care. look at all the broken frame videos
I did exactly what you did with my furrion AC unit. put a 10k thermister above the thermostat and solved all the problems with the unit. mercifully grand design had a couple of extra wires in the run to the thermostat.
works great
I spent 5 decades in automotive repair. More than once I had engineers and service people at the manufacturer level upset(?) when I used their words and product design to show them where they were functionally Incorrect. They never hung up the phone , but I bet they wanted to. Good video and you kept it cordial . thanks
James, I appreciate your integrity stand behind your work and doing what you can to make things, right
This defines a true technician that stands behind his work. God bless have a good day.
You are a man of integrity who will redo the work even if it's the manufacture fault. You are a rare man in today's world who still believes the way a real man warranties his work. Thank you so much for what you do and showing us how things should be done. Your truly a rare find in today's world of RVs. You are appreciated. Stay safe and have a great year.
You truly are the epitome of a great Technician. I just wish I was closer to you, as I can not find anyone near me that care a rats butt about getting a job done right. Thank you for your work ethic!
Kudos to you for being tenacious enough to figure out the appropriate solution instead of doing a half 🍑 job just to get things done. If Furrion were innovative and humble, they would view your video in a perspective of improving their products they offer. Being critiqued is not a bad thing but a journey to improvement. I'd gladly travel the distance from Utah to AZ to have you work on my motor coach to have you inspect it or work on it . I've had the same vehicle mechanic for 27 yrs. The reason is he is just as like minded as you. Safe travels and walk in peace and with God.
I know that whole process was a pain but the customer I bet is really happy with the setup and glad you went the extra extra mile to make it right. Plus look at all the content it gave you 😂. Good job.
Bummer, this install was so much trouble. I have the microair system on my Alfa, really like it and they were very helpful. They make a great baseplate for the thermostat that really finishes the install nicely. Nice work!
The old technology has been working for 150 years, so why did Lippert change it?....ha ha
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember amateurs built the ark, but professionals built the titanic. "
thanks, did you get your bike? email me if you didn't
@@AZExpert You bet! It's sitting at my parents house waiting on me! Dad got it put together and has been giving it a good test ride until I return from the PNW! Many Thanks to you and Peter with Hovsco !
You're a good man James, way to go. Thank you for this follow up video. Happy trails!
We bought one of the Atwood AC/Heat Pumps in 2014, before Dometic bought them out and I must say that we also replaced our old Carrier unit which had started falling apart from AZ sun exposure and the Atwood was even better than the Carrier unit. So quiet, so effecient. Low current draw (we could run the enitre 30A Class A unit on a 15A extension cord). In a class C you can simply leave the thermostat on the plenum (where it is default installed on the non ducted units) and the unit will work. Only thing I would do differently is get teh smaller unit as the 13,5 was too big- it cooled the whole rig down in about 15 minutes and tended to not be able to draw enough moisture out down here in FLA where we now are most of the time. For a Class A, the 13,5 would be great IMO. We sold that rig last year and we really miss the Atwood - we simply set the temp and mounted the remote control (not thermostat) on the wall with some velcro. One more thing- you can start the generator with the Atwood unit on and it will wait for the gen output to settle before starting and only draws about 10A max. The Atwood would've worked perfectly here and is an easy non-ducted solution. Only rub: since Dometic bout them, you can no longer get the NON ducted unit from them and must buy the Houghton brand (Atwood was private label- same as the Lippert/Furrion). There is no point getting upset with Lippert- they actually have no engineers- the engineers are in China. Houghton is in Australia (though their equipment is also China sourced). When our new Class A needs units- we'll be going with Houghton 100%. There are no real American makes left (including GE branded units). RIP Carrier.
When James is discouraged and broken, you've got a real problem. I would have thought every thermostat measures the air temp. Furrion should have redesigned the whole system. What a mess. Bonus being able to use the MicroAir BT thermostat. Nice work!
I love watching you. I will forever pull extra wire or string or something when I pull wires in the future!! 😂😂
I recently picked up a stand-alone Furrion 15K A/C to replace a 12 year old Dometic unit. I reused the Plenum and the relay box. THe Furrion plugged directly into the Dometic relay box and bolted to the plenum without the use of the kit or any modifications. I think the Furrion A/C with Dometic controls is the best way to do it- best of both worlds.
yes that is a great option!
Spoke to Furrion last year about the same situation. They told me to leave the fan set to on, year round. They warned me that if I modified anything, it would void the warranty. Running the fan nonstop helps. However, it's gonna wear out soon. Nice work
Thanks very much for taking the time to make these videos. I always learn something new from each of your videos. I know first hand how much time it takes to make one video, I gave up after the first 30 minutes. Trying to do a job, explain what you are doing, moving the camera, editing after the job is complete is massive. I so much appreciate you and your detailed explanations. Thanks for showing us the out takes, and the parts where you don't take life too seriously and make jokes about yourself. Once again, Thank you for the info.
I have been trying to switch from two Dometic 13.5k to (2) Furrion 15.5K, and believe me it has been a nightmare. I am also using the Micro-Air thermostat, but I can't seem to get it to recognize the second zone.
Thank you so much for the kind words and understanding. :)
Great video. I think if I was the smart thermostat maker I would watch this video and upgrade our product really quick. Lippert is becoming a cheaply made company. I've bought 2 different slide toppers from them. One was made great, the second one they changed the arms and they bent just to save a few dollars.
That's commitment and good information for all of us to know. Good job sticking with it!
good video! I noticed the ceiling has some waviness in the material. Is this caused by moisture inside the RV?
Lol your a good man ! Ageeed on mixing components! Even as a havac tech I have to go back and fix things I didn't for see . Sucks!!!!
Let me guess no more furioun promotions 😂
My new (2023) TT came with the Furrion/Lippert 15.5 btu chill A/C and updated control unit and thermostat. I tried the room temperature sensor relocation to the thermostat for the A/C sensor. It reads about 6 degrees higher than actual. So I thought I'd install the AirTouch thermostat and program it to correct for the error but it only allowed for 4 degrees of correction. I also found the WiFi and bluetooth app for the android to be lacking. It kept dropping connectivity and was a pita. The new thermister in the Furrion thermostat for heat is also wonky, slow to respond and off a few degrees also so I installed a Suburban analog tried and true $18 dollar thermostat for the furnace and use the original Furrion thermostat just for the A/C cool, fan and dry mode and allow for the thermostat error. Perhaps Lippert may re-consider making their products in China for the sake of profit and try making it here in the USA for quality's sake.
Wow, do you travel? I need help with my generator on my 2013 Forest river George town motorhome. Only runs for 42min then cuts off. Flashing me the light sequence that lets me know it quit without being told to. Oh, and it's not the oil. It's something else. There is a metal flapper inside the gas tank that drops shut, cutting off the fuel flow, then flashing the lights. I know it's not the oil because I jumpered past the sensor that tells that fuel gate to shut based on low oil, and it still did this. Oh, and I'm in Virginia....God bless you and yours.
When we bought the $225k 2015 🍋diesel pusher I had to do a ton of research on this RV & RV quality issues in general. I came to the conclusion that back around 2013 Lippert really took over the supply chain market for RV manufacturers, buying up other smaller parts manufacturers, & quality control took a major dump. There are only 2 components to building a quality RV - quality of parts & quality of builders. None of that has happened since 2013, imho & gotten even worse during the last 3 years. I have a 2022 tank now! She's dated & needs a few updates here & there but gets the job done.
Good grief, what engineer's apprentice's dog walker designed that mess? Somehow they managed to reinvent a 100 year old temperature switch wired on a wall and screw it up. I'm sorry you got stuck with that mess. Doing the right thing is hard work sometimes.
Save some time next time and just pull a new 4 conductor and the therm wire using the original 4 conductor, no need for pull sting.
James glad you figured it out! Would have drove me crazy. Wondering if I could replace my old thermostats with the newer one like you did , for my old Coach ? Coleman/Mach a/c . As always great video!
Glad to help
Hehe...UniBit 😃
This video was very informative for me because I am experiencing the short cycling with my furion AC. I talked to Grand Design and they said Furion definately has a desgin problem but Grand Design has a thermistor relocation kit I can install to fix the problem. Now I have to pay someone to do what you did or figure out how to run the wires in the celing myself. Really burns my butt.
Nice work. Shame on Furrion for not properly engineering their system properly.
What you lost in time and dollars, you made up in Goodwill; James, You the Man, Tech Extraordinaire!
Not only goodwill with his current customer base (pretty sure it wasn't needed with them) but future demand on James which is going to be problematic - there's only one of him.
Low profile GE looks better in my opinion.
Yup. Our job it to make it work in Arizona. Commercial HVAC Mechanic. Factory Systems often have to be modified for our unique high ambient environment. Well done.
I’m surprised that the RV air conditioning units aren’t ecobee or nest compatible.
I have 2 carrier units in my RV and used Cielo controllers, but the intent of using them at the time, as I was parked in one spot for an extended period, where I had WiFi.
Good work on coming up with an acceptable solution, based upon the limitations of the Furion equipment!
Based on comments I've gotten from other owners Furrion has a thermistor relocation kit that provides a new thermistor with 10 ft of wire and a bubble cover. They were provided free under warranty to resolve short cycling.
I run a furrion ac with a dometic 3316230.014 kit. It runs like a champ. 35 systems installed and no call backs
I just commented on the first video about how nice that unit and install was. Then I see this. What a dumb design. Why would anyone think having the thermostat temperature probe in the AC air handler is a good idea.
thank you!!! I feel the same way!!
James I found your videos recently and I have to confess that I'm very pleased with your content.. Appreciate for your efforts and somewhat I admire you for your integrity.. Thanks again from Greece
Much appreciated!
Thanks James
Just got a new 2024 grand design that came with 2 furron ac units, with the senior in the return. There was 3 spare wires 🙏🏻 moved the sensors and everything good to go.
Thanks James
Who came up with putting the sensors in the return has no clue
Im happy to hear it worked!!!
James, really admire your transparency and integrity. FYI... my MicroAir has a temperature offset feature that may have calibrated for the wire resistance differential you theorized.
By the by I replace my carrier a/c with a 15k Brisk air. There are adapter cables so no interior changes are need. I use the carrier remote for heat and cool and the Brisk air works great even in San Antonio 118 degree heat
Sounds great!
You are amazing, most techs would have given up after the first trip and said its not there problem. Keep it up.
I think i figured out a way to put a conventional battery powered thermostat in my dometic with the CT thermostat without permanently modifying it or spending tons of money on the aftermarket stat. I have a schematic of what I think would work anyway, I'll post a video if it works!
James, how did you link the FLIR to your phone? Bluetooth?
plugs into the usbc on my phone they have them for apple too
I haven't seen a single piece of Furrion equipment that I've been happy or impressed with.
Thank you for the three part series. I have been following since the get go. I appreciate you and your work!
I installed a Furrion 14.5 kbtu AC last year on my motorhome that we live in FT. To keep it simple and avoid all the problems you had I got the model with the control unit on the AC. If it gets too cold, you just turn the knob warmer. Too hot and turn it cooler. My furnace is on a separate, inexpensive thermostat from Lowes. My initial complaint with the Furrion is that the fan runs all the time, unlike my old Dometic. However, this new Furrion produces so much cooler air than my old 13.5 kbtu Dometic that if it's not very warm outside, like at night, the coils will freeze up if the fan is on low, so I just leave it on high. I really like that it blows air through my AC ducts as well as directly through the vents on the AC unit itself, unlike my old Dometic, for a much faster cool. In fact, this Furrion cools so well that I haven't had to run my rear AC in over a year.
What you did for the customer was first class!! I am sure they realized that it was a manufacturer issue but you solving the issue for a year in your time shows a lot. As far as Lippert is concerned I have no faith in their products. They are just a company trying to monopolize the rv parts industry!! They also make that slide you had to replace. Their leveling system controller sucks in two years , the screen is fading out. Their Chinese refrigerator also sucks.
Now you can find some 6 wire conductors and make up some harness to sell or My RV Works will be selling them on his site. 😂😂😂😂😂 good Job James what a learning curve 😊
Hey James - don’t forget the software update for the Micro Air. It changes the user interface, but really works well.
Shame of Lippert
Lippert is the NUMBER ONE PROBLEM with the RV industry! Although the manufacturers do have some build quality issues, the biggest issue with most RVs are the components. Most of these components are made by, you guessed it, Lippert. When replacing or fixing something in my RV the first thing I check is to see if the company is a Lippert brand. If it is I keep on searching.
If you think that the quality of Lippert brands are bad, just try their customer-no-service department.
Absolutely the worst.
James you’re absolutely the best, wish you lived closer to Tn so I could hire you to fix a plumbing problem.
Good job James, just maybe the the furrion company might pay attention. Sorry about the pay and time. But you did make the rv customer happy. And look at the knowlege you gained. Good job
These manufacturers 🤦🏼 for the love of everything holy can they just use some common sense.
In the words of Seymour Skinner “Pathetic” 😂
Great job as usual 👍🏼
I knew you would not let it go! Nice job! Anyone can edit out all the pain and truth but that’s not real life. Real life is new things don’t always work as advertised. Thanks for showing the real world struggles and walking through how to work around them.
I just installed a Houghton, 3 wires to connect; line, neutral and ground. Easy.
So... if I keep our Coleman thermostat, it overrides the thermistor in the Furrion unit? Or does the problem still exist.
thank you so much for your advice just hooked up my new furrion chill 13.5 and relocated the room temperature sensor working beautiful. thanks to you....😊
Thanks for the update ! Glad you solved the problem. In doing this video series you have helped many people I'm sure !
Aaannnd I for one am very glad you made this video and that I watched this video.
Why ?
Because I am going to be replacing a carrier air v and after watching the first video am giving serious consideration to the furrion AC unit you installed.
Now I feel like I know everything I need to know to get the job done.
Thank you very much for your due diligence !!!
I think it would have been helpful and insightful to have a separate thermometer to set alongside the control unit to verify that the additional resistance you added to the thermistor line was not effecting the actual temperature set reading. I sure there is a difference but it probably is not that far off from the correct temp inside the coach. It is probably off by a couple of degrees but they will probable set to their comfort level and not the reading in the control unit.
The micro air thermostat has the ability to adjust the temp offset
This Furrion mess has ticked me off! I have a Brand New 2024 Timberwolf Destination RV with this problem. I'm in east Tennessee. Picked up the 2 week old unit in September . I kept getting flashing error messages . I've got to call a mobile tech . Everything is still guaranteed but I'll still have to pay them to come.out , right? The chaos with the Lippert customer service hasn't improved!
Now it's vacation time, or at least take some time off and relax somewhere. We've all learned some things from this project.
Hi James, I understand you probably get hundreds of request for your knowledge so if you don't answer I understand because your knowledge is worth something.
I have an 02 Monaco with dual heat pumps that need to be replaced.
What can/should I replace them with? Should I forget the dream of using the original DuoTherm thermostat?
If I could I'd just make an appointment and take the journey to AZ but I can't.
Thanks for your consideration,
Rick Shipley
last year i bought and installed 2 RecPro (Houghton) low profile ac units: RP-AC3400. it took me a couple months to realize that the reason they could not cool all the way down was the thermistor was not on the wireless remote but in the intake.
Stupid.🤬 cuz NATURALLY, the most accurate temperature in the coach is just a few inches away from the ac output 🤬
so $3,200 and they cycle off constantly compared to the old(1997) ones i replaced that were ’not smart’
when we need optimal performance we have started running a 600 CFM carpet blower fan on the bed to push the cold air through the rv so it doesn’t get sucked back up and cycle off. ridiculous design.
these systems need to add on a ‘max on’ setting that ignores the thermistor completely and only cycles the unit for the health of the compressor.
this is the first video i have found on youtube where i finally realize that its not just me.
does anyone know if there is a way to modify a thermistor to be less sensitive. maybe several wraps of heat shrink??
One of the best I ever had was a Carrier.... Then almost all the brands went to the dogs a few years ago. At that time I went with Advent. I figured if they aren't lasting, I'd just buy the cheapest I could get. Well, they have turned out to be the Best! I just had to replace the first one after 8 years of Almost Continuous Use down in the Louisiana Heat and Humidity! 15k btu unit for $699!
Disastrous design. The designer lost common sense. I have a Ibex camper same issue. Thanks you video
Refreshing to see straight talk with opinion backed up with facts. You may consider hiring personal security though. I'm sure the corporate PR enforcement agents at Lippert are not happy with you right now. But then again, if they are the only game in town they probably don't give a hoot one way or the other. Any way this is just the information I needed as I have a ac unit that is on it's last legs. No Fury On for me until they fix the issue. BTW, I am looking to replace a failed Atwood 10 gallon water heater. Looking at Furrion, Fugatti and Gerard tankless models. Any recommendations on that?
What is your thought on a 15 k ge. I have a grand design 22mle with a ge unit. Some are having problems but I have had a problem in 2 yrs , also i installed a soft start. The only thing that I find is that it loud.
Another
Super job…boy I wish I lived closer …need advice in nj!!!
You need to use shielded cable. Unshielded cable will effect the calibration more then the length of the cable.
My new Grand Design Imagine 2970 does the same thing, but its multiplied due to having 2 ac units, bedroom ac wont come on due to that sensor saying its 58. Waiting on dealer to figure this out, lol
The only issue now is will it freeze up
With the thermistor in the shroud it probably doesn’t have a freeze plug
Hope it’s not a problem
Changing AC brands is always a wiring refit.
Hello, you should have just bypass the thermistor and the microair would have control the temperature of the AC, no ?
James if/when I purchase an RV, I am coming to AZ to have you repair/solve any issues. TY!!!
First, it wasn't your mistake, it's a crappy design flaw that anyone with half a brain should have caught in testing. Second, I'd send a bill for the time you spent fixing their design flaw. I doubt they'll pay it but it'll send them a point that they need to fix their crap. You shouldn't have to pay with your time for something that should have been a brain dead simple install
Thanks, That answers why my AC short cycles and was never able to freeze you out 🥶
Any experience with RecPro/Houghton air conditioners?
I just bought one and so far like that it has a metal carriage and looks to be made better than others that I have looked at but it's heavy and looks a bit dated.
Thanks for the videos!
Another excellant job,lots of good info. David Russell
The only thing I actually I don't like cuz the connectors that you use the lock and if you don't exactly cut the wire that exact length reduced pull out and locking lovers are known to come up you should wrap some tape around them 60 years experience
Congratulations Bud but the ads every 3 minutes aren't worth the info 🤬
thanks for the heads up, I always forget to remove a bunch of those ads placed by youtube.
They are if you need the info and moral support that the problem can be overcome. You're not going to get the answer from manufacturers or over the counter at Camping World.
Thank you for these videos! I hope you're able to recoup your losses in the future from lessons learned on this repair.
Should just have installed a mini split they make ceiling ones that will fit in the rv holes would have been more effcient and would have worked the first time 😂
what would have happened if before you intalled the longer wires, you used the new furrion thermostat or the micro air that have a thermistor sensor in the thermostat and unplugged the heat sensor from the control box.
Lippert strikes again. It’s bad when a so so company takes over a large portion of an industry.
Idk what unit ac I want. living full time in my trailer in Mesa az. Summer coming
You would think that an engineer would have figured this stuff during R&D
Than you James, I have the same furion AC, and the same isue
My first thought was to move it to the thermostat but I didn’t put it in the comments because I though you had your reasons that wouldn’t work.