>guide says that bad luck with specials that insta delete your toughness like poxbursters >Also says stamina is trash when the optimal way to deal with poxbursters is to push them and dodge back...which takes stamina >Also says that combat ability regen is a waste of a lot when they picked chastise the wicked as their ability....which can restore toughness in those hypothetical "bad luck" moments. Not only does this person not know what they're talking about, I'd argue their internal logic isn't even consistent.
Failing to dodge a sniper or push a burster as a Zealot is just a skill check fail. It happens but you can't build to totally safeguard it or you'll lack other things.
His build does literally the opposite of everything I attempt to do on my most aggressive Zealot builds. Constant charging, constant critting, constant damage reduction, constant CDR, this build reads like the guy is shitposting almost.
The enemies which this author points out are the exact enemies that you can hear from a mile away. Burster growls before he spawns and ticking after, the clicking of a flamer, the buzz of a sniper spawns. Taking toughness always makes sense to me
TBF, fartshart has spaghetti code, 80% of the time with more than 60~90 active units audio instances from other map chunks gets culled for no fucking reason.
I bought the game few days ago and this was the first build I chose. I dropped it as soon as Damnation diff and your channel showed up in my recommendation haha. Your build just makes more sense to me and I actually just needed to tweak very little from it to suit me better compared to the build shown in the video. Thanks for the build and the education video!
at 22:10 you mention flamers - remember that back in the day getting touched by fire would zero your toughness. I think you nailed it when you mentioned that this build is likely very old - heck I ran health curios until recently when I began to learn about this game again.
Just a shame to see them pretending to have “updated it for UnL” when they have not and probably just added more paragraphs of text to justify why their build is still good
But flamer damage reduction was also completely useless even back then since they dealt barely any direct damage and the curio dmg reduction didnt even work on the ground fire lmfao, so yeah this build is definitely old af AND still bad/nonsensical for the time period
Thy wrath be swift is insanely good. You cant be stunned in melee or ranged. Meaning gunners, shotgunners, reapers etc wont knock you back. Ofc if you have perfect play you wont need it but it means you dont need to respect ranged enemies at all.
I hate this build so much because the way it's structured really gives the *impression* that the writer knows exactly what they're talking about. In hindsight, and in no small part thanks to Tanner's and Torninator's videos, it's easy to see just how many mistakes they make, but there's the illusion of competence. I do think there's space for comfort picks even in a meta build. Meta should assume *realistic* skill imo, not hypothetical top skill. Holy Revenant isn't always great, but if you're a player that does find themselves in a situation where you're fucked, not going down for 3ish seconds can be enough for a player to get their shit together and not go down. Is it always good? No. But I do think the "building to fail" argument doesn't work as well for Holy Revenant as it does a Wound curio. Also to be fair, sometimes the Ai director does become a little unfair. A poxburster jumping through a door is a skill issue, but something like a trapper being drowned out by all the audio and then shooting through a crusher so that you can't even see the net.. I mean, there's only so much awareness you can expect from the player. It's maybe not luck, but sometimes the AI director just expects too much.
I've got builds on there, even called meta, with Holy Revenant. It allows for very aggressive plays. Or yes, a silent trapper might net you into a crusher overhead. Sure, if you take a couple points of damage most missions, Holy Revenant is not that great. On a typical evening I can't play at that level for more than a few games if at all. Tired after work and baked, relaxing with some auric quickplays - mistakes will happen.
There's so many little quirks with the specials in this game that I think investing 2 points into a safety net that could turn a bullshit wipe into a clutch is not "building to fail" its preparing for the worst and still playing your best, and yeah if you're going 90% of your games without going down sure, maybe get some more toughness or offense or utlity and kick the safety net, but I've absolutely had some mental turnarounds thanks to Holy Revenant that otherwise would have just been a wipe. And often that's just some nonsense like an ENEMY gunner shooting a flamer and causing it to detonate when I melee it at super low health while fighting yknow 500 things. Yes, that is a fucking thing, test it. Its bullshit.
Running ud/hr is way more worth it than wound curios. Although ill go several games without using it, its in a good spot on the skill tree and can save you in unwinnable situations when the ai director gets a bit quirky at night. Wound curios, however, are terrible(unless its a zealot with martydom). You are actively putting the burden on your team to revive you multiple times in a single life which can put them at risk. Its to the point where i will straight up leave u on the floor and let you bleed out to waste your wound curios if you run that shit in my lobby. I had a psyker teammate in a NORMAL maelstrom with easy modifiers that said "stick together or you die this mission is no joke" at the start. He had 3 wound curios and ran smite with bubble shield. He died 5 times and me and my buddy never even went down once and hard carried. People get mad at tanner and others for being pretentious but those people are genuinely just suffering from the dunning-kruger effect.
The game is designed to catch you out. With compete team mates getting netted should never be an issue. Literally 2 secs to unnet. But that's what I like about Darktide no two games are the same. Ever.
Ngl just playing psyker itself can be considered meta with how strong the class is especially when you are using your staffs 24/7(except electrokinetic, its dogshit)
Yeah for almost every class now I have adopted taking plus three stamina two toughness Curios all with ability regeneration 5% toughness and stamina regeneration...
Thy Wraith Be Swift basically makes you like ogryn, you can't get stun means you can do comms event while getting hit. If you are maybe solo and need to do those things, it helps. Also the other day I died to a crusher because one tiny dredge enemy hit me and stunned me right I was doing a charged poke, so it messed up my timing and got slammed. Thy Wraith Be Swift could've saved me there. If you used to play with it for some reason because you go for Loner, you feel the lack of it.
I use it on anything with slow deliberate strikes, a Duelling Sword poke does BS damage and happens fast, a Thunder Hammer strikedown does comparable damage but you're vulnerable for your big attack. Thy Wrath Be Swift is a utility, it lets you be more aggressive and in desperate situations where this optimal play concept goes out the window it ENSURES you get your swings in. It converts Zealot into a brawler who doesn't care if hes it, he will still land a hit.
@@TheOneTrueStAN That's why I don't like this meta build discussion about this game. Meta builds only work if you have a meta "team" and if you are a meta "player". Even then this game is not scripted. Even if you play with same team on a same map, things could play out completely differently.
All im saying is.... The only thing that I think is META in my wheelhouse of limited knowledge is the dueling sword. Everyone thinks they gangster still they take off the dueling sword. Every time I think im improving at Darktide, I just take off the Dueling sword and my goodness if that isn't a rude awakening to my lack of skill as a player I dont know what is.
Nothing wrong with using the dueling sword itself dont feel bad about it but it can be good to put it down when you are still learning about the game since it literally stops you from improving badly
One tiny detail, while its around 3.11~3.15 effective toughness per point on most builds, Good Balance is generic DR, so its a point of toughness closer to 2.5 times one point of HP (without going into spillover efficiency where 1 HP 5% perk or if somehow left with 1 spare point and having already grabbed faithful the 10% HP below it is likely very much worth it unless playing 3+ premade, much like how until death can pay for itself, even with mods that mostly bugfix specials to at least alert you properly and 100% if baseline with the soundless/no indicator through-railing blasts like a Demon Souls boss clipping through 2 walls to hit you). Still correct that 1 stam 2 toughness gives the most bang for buck. Oh and Thy wrath is 100% S tier, but its just pointless if you have another talent giving you part of same benefit in form of Punishment. The ability to say "no" to AI director being trash and spend your hp as a resource for clear time is extremely satisfying. Fartshart just needs to fix its text (instead of nerfing it) to just say "immune to stuns and slows, hp damage gives you zoom speed like the kids posting toilet memes". It alone does a better job at changing your gameloop and approach to map sections than the entire cluster of Martyrdom ever could with current core mechanics in the best way possible from both design and player use (you get good benefits even if you dont abuse it, if you do, while the game doesnt get easier compared to non-abuse, it does get far more fun and time-investment rewarding).
Mr E the circle is complete. You are the new tanner😂. Great video. Was super Funny as my friend was trying this build ( as he wanted to not die as much) and I was super confused why he wanted to run all health curios
This doesn't counter any of the points made in this video, but I want to clarify something that I see becoming a more and more frequent misunderstanding. Meta does not actually mean best, more like most common. Somebody will immediately responds saying it is an acronym for "most effective tactics available" - but that is actually a backronym someone just made up. The term originates from a prefix meaning beyond (or often used to mean self-referential) and has in the gaming space become the shorthand for the original term metagame. This refers the trends of how groups of people play the games, or "the game beyond the game". This was a more pronounced difference in the days of slow internet when local groups often had come up with different consensus on how a game is to be played. Regional metas would evolve, and you still see this to some extent today when looking at differences between how games are played across language barriers. For PvP oriented games this distinction is a bit more important, as building strategies that are not necessarily viewed as good on their own, but happen to be excellent against whatever the current meta is can be a strong path to victory. In cooperative games following a meta, even if not optimal, provides an immediate understanding of roles and how to solve problems amongst an ad-hoc group of players. The most hilarious part of this to me is that the original usage of meta often was trying to indicate that a play pattern that was not actually the best, just reinforced by following a group - and through people eager to bandwagon and engagement farming it is coming to mean the opposite of that.
that backronym is how it is intended in the gamer dialect here. I am full aware that meta means "overall" or "10,000 foot view" etc, but this builld says it is the best possible at high skill and tthats a lie
Yes, thank you. I would also very much question whether the standard Mr E applied (the build has you doing the most damage for your skill investment) even makes sense for a game like darktide with the number of variables in play in any given game. It would imply that there must be one single most optimal build and I don't think that's a thing even if you had perfect knowledge of the game
Despite what dictionaries and wikipedia claim, the meta part from "META tactic" is not a backronym, most effective tactical approach or most efficient tactic available was shorthand in magazines even back in the mid to late 70s and is part of the end of 40s to 50s war theory and psychology (even if popularized in said 70s, but the early part as part of numerous books going over issues of different levels of political conflicts and comparisons to historical equvialents where the point started as arguments for improved decision making through knowledge of what were the most efficient steps to take in any given international or on a lesser scale internal conflict, but there it pointed out that resource control and use of existing logistics aka competency of staff beats any benefits/chance improvements ones strategy can derived from comparing and appropriately using tactical situations on those fronts).
"Metagame" and "metagaming" also dates way back to roleplaying games, with the meaning of acting outside or 'beyond' your character in order to optimise narrative or mechanical advantage. I can't say for certain, but it's definitely a viable contender for an origin of the term given how prevalent it also is in the computer RPGs of today (which is something I would argue Darktide falls closer to in it's systems than your typical competitive game). At this point this is just a pointless debate on the etymology of a word that most people descriptivistically understand as meaning "the best/most optimal". Is it really a frequent misunderstanding, or is it maybe just the meaning of words varying between different cultures and/or changing over time?
I'll share my red flags for build you SHOULD NOT follow on this website: For any class: -x3 health curio -No stamina Regen on curios -Toughness regeneration on curios -Weapons with either 10% elite/specialist/groaner/crit damage Veteran: -smoke OR krak grenades, unless you're doing penances. No, kraks are not good. They don't melt bosses (yes, even with +50% damage), they barely deal 1 bolter mag, if you want a realistic comparison. -no Iron will (50% tdmg reduction) Zealot: -any health sustain related node. You're a toughness brick already. -no duelist I'm clueless about psyker, and about Ogryn for the LOVE of the Emperor, don't play taunt (unless you specifically want to make snipers dance on block with the shield, in their heavy concentration condition). Taunting is making it harder for anyone having dodge bonuses on tree or blessings. Which is pretty much everyone in the team. Deal damage, don't "tank", there's no such a thing in Darktide (except for DH but you don't need any taunt, it's already the boss mechanic)
I’ve played exclusively auric damnation and maelstrom since they’ve been available. Mister E is 💯 with this evaluation. In the end play what’s fun though!
I play a variation of this build, but my intent is to tank and support my team with it I find PUGs tend to not die or simply don't need clutches when I play it.
There is one instance of bad luck id say in this game and thats silent poxbursters. Sometimes the game just decides not to give an audio cue at all which kills about 90% of your ability to react and deal with them
Ok, his build might be far from ideal and especially the stamina statement giga triggered me, HOWEVER: thanks to this dude I gave the braced autoguns on zealot a try and what can I say? having a blast.
I have not used this website before but maybe the person who made this didn't update the build ? Anyway this a good video in case people didn't notice the build wasn't updated.
A nice, and mostly respectful debunk of this build. I do disagree with you on one thing though, luck is definitely required in public lobbies 😅 (though I have to say, most pick-up groups are fine in this game)
Im a helbore enthusiast and have run it regularly into damnation, can be rough in auric damnation and especially auric maelstrom depending on the map and map modifier. Maybe I should join a stream to show it :D
Would you be interested in us sharing a build for you to comment on? We could add some context (main idea, core elements) and you could either try it out and add comment during gameplay or just show the build.
ok so first though, this build and especially the curios looks like a build from a long time vermintide player and newer darktide player. the hp being a holdover from temp hp existing, the defences against ranged mobs, the gun with a good amount of ammo and ESPECIALLY the corruption resist, which you would always have in vermintide since grims spawned every match and you always wanted them. if this was vt2 this would be a decent saltzpire low life build, since his version of martydom worked a bit odd with max hp iirc. just a vt2 players idea of a good dt build
Tbh if this is just a vt2 carry-over build then the author probably wasn't very good at that game either. No one takes grimoires on cataclysm and anyone coming from vt2 would usually have block efficiency on all of their curios.
Most well-rated builds on gameslantern aren't all that impressive. During the early days you could just put "[Auric Maelstrom] ______ META 1v2 KARNAK TWINS" and get 20 upvotes for nothing, and this build has been around as long as I remember. That's why it's so important to break down WHY a build is good, and constantly try new ones
For builds? I go to content creators who stream, like you, Tanner, Vamp, Telepots, etc. I realize many people use discord and wikis or whatever website this is referencing, so policing crap builds is important.
i tried out his builds for fun after watching this, hot damn its shit, feels like manoeuvrability was significantly worse then the current builds. Was a good waste of my life
Hope you fixed your ceiling fan. Just want you to be aware, incase idiots in the future decide to investigate a single frame that shows what you recently watched on YT. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, simply saw others fall prey to it because hitting record and posting is easy to get used to. Stay safe brother, and thanks for the content.
having corruption resistance on your curios and then calling stamina trash is probably the most reddit take i have ever seen, no wonder it has so many likes.
Bros really saying that stamina is garbage because "if you can't keep yourself alive without extra Stamina, not having enough Stamina is not the problem" when they shamelessly took multiple DR perks for multiple avoidable damage types (like snipers??) and also took the Zealot cheat death. You can't make that up, I'm convinced this GL page is a bit.
Honestly, probably just your algorithm, but I can say personally that I'm taking the idea of meta builds more seriously with Havoc mode on the horizon. Builds are about to matter more than they ever did before.
The ps5 launch is happening soon. Lot of people are uploading stuff calling it "META To CLICK BAIT NEW PLAYERS" and then recommending objectively bad choices that are not by definition meta (for example, any veteran build calling itself meta and taking Rending Strikes should probably be scrutinized heavily, Rending Strikes mathematically DOES NOT improve your shots to kill on any enemy in a meaningful enough way to justify going for it) so a lot of long time enfranchised players are getting a bit upset about this kind of stuff and being more critical about anyone claiming something is Meta. Even older guides such as this one are being analyzed and critiqued.
I don't like the viewpoint you have on cheat death/thy wrath. I have my own build I run without those two nodes, but there are times I do and having that buffer to play more aggressively is arguably better than some other talents. Its easy enough to get on a piety/charge build, I don't see why you couldn't take a point out of the ambuscade and desperation node (that will go mostly unused by the vast majority of players) for cheat death. What makes it strong is that it's a 2 minute cooldown, so you can proc it and have the CD reset again for another go before you even reach the next medicae station. I'm not defending the health curios here, but since the healing from cheat death is percentage based, you'll get more health back the more base health you have. It's important to keep a lot of people aren't "hardcore gamers like us" and there is a lot of information to absorb at any given time in this game which not everyone can or is willing to do flawlessly every game, and these same people are going to be looking on youtube for build ideas. But yeah fuck those "meta builds" they're shit.
Cheat death is fine. Its only one point more and the benefit is pretty good. Many builds can afford it, and i would even say that it could be considered within the realm of meta. What isnt meta is the rest of this nonsense lol
I've come to the conclusion that there is no "meta" (in the 'most effective tactics available' sense) in Darktide. Every build's performance depends mostly on play style, and a fair bit on skill, than it does on the build. Even 'perfectly' skilled players have very different play styles, and so two very high skill players can experience very different outcomes while running identical builds. No one has tried out all of the possible play styles with all of the possible builds, and so every judgement about what is 'the best' is inevitably very limited to their subjective experiences. Thus, imo all that "meta" really means for Darktide is "popular". No doubt the popular picks are on average the stronger picks, but in no way are they necessarily the optimal picks. My take away is that if you want to meaningfully judge a build it is necessary to watch some game play footage of it being used effectively, than it is to just look at the build. Often I come to the conclusion that given their play style and skill level, it very likely is the most optimal build *for them*. If we could watch some game play footage by the author of the build this video is about, I expect we'd come to this conclusion. To use an example to flesh out my PoV. I run Purgatus with ER, which isn't popular/"meta" because such a build normally struggles to generate enough peril to 6 stack shriek on cooldown. But ER does let you maintain full stacks of blaze away forever, which is a significant boost to damage output. If you throw in a force sword with close to 0 warp resistance to solve the peril generation issue you end up with the mathematically optimal build for maximum Purgatus damage output (if played aggressively with good peril awareness, game sense, and the mobility tech to stay alive). I've shared my build with many people, many of them unarguably good/great players, and watched them play it. Unfortunately it normally doesn't go particularly well for them because they aren't playing it in the way that makes it the strongest. Even worse, the build depends on probably the hardest rolled weapon to now get, so the number of players that can really test it out and practice pushing it to its limits are fairly restricted. So it isn't ever likely to become popular enough to be considered meta, regardless of its actual superiority. This experience is largely why I've come to the conclusion that whenever "meta" is used in any discussion around Darktide it really means nothing more than "popular". An aside, but I'm fairly sure the highest possible damage output of any build, for a player with perfect skill, would be with a Void Strike Staff running Surge + Flurry and True Aim. I mean perfect as in 100% weak spot hit rate (including the double shots from Surge), perfect choice between primary and secondary, perfect amount of secondary charge to kill every target/group of targets, perfectly prioritizing elites/specials to proc PC, attacking blind so the orbs connect the instant targets enter LoS, etc, etc. I'm yet to see anyone get remotely close to executing that in actual game play footage though. But if they did would it become considered meta? My guess is probably not, because it is so hard to execute it just wouldn't become popular.
Meta is what does more damage and takes the least damage, basically. If your purgatus build pulls ahead of beefs or whoever elses when skill isnt a factor, its the meta choice. But in this case, i am perfectly fine with saying things are meta within like a 1-2 talent difference, like thrust vs precog on the duelling sword. Thats pretty damn close to meta. What ISNT meta is building health and sniper damage resistance
@@MisterEtide For sure, by any definition of 'meta' that build really ain't it. Though I still think it fairly likely that in the hands of the author it might still be the optimal fit. If a player is bad at dodging snipers, and regularly takes chip damage, then those curios probably do help more than anything else would. Beef is a good example, though one that I think highlights the significant difference that play style makes to the outcome. I believe he runs a knife, giving his build much better kiting and survivability through mobility. Also all the peril bouncing and lack of ER in his build results in a ton more toughness regen. Those differences make it a good fit for some play styles, but bad for others. Which is really better? Is higher damage worth higher fragility? I dunno tbh. In a full team, probably more yes. In a duo, maybe more not? For a stubborn aggressive player, probably more yes. For a slippery survivor, probably more not. Whenever I get asked which staff is 'the best' I always answer 'whichever one you enjoy enough to put in the effort to master', because I've seen various Psykers do insanely impressive things with their favorite staff, while being fairly normal with the others. I guess at the end of the day I just think Darktide is too subtle and complex to clearly determine 'the best' in the way it is possible for many other video games with far more predictable and constrained game play.
I use untill death on a lot of my zealot builds because no matter how good you are, youre not perfect and it sucks when one missed overhead ends your run
Wait, The tanner meta build is putting Uncanny over Precog on the dueling sword? What the fuck is happening? lol did tanner 180 on Uncanny? Of all the weapons the DS with crit build doesn't feel like it needs uncanny, but def benefits from it. Is it considered better than precog now?
@@MisterEtide Does uncanny not fall off when swapping to ranged weapon? I like uncanny too, but been recently using precog + thrust and 5% crit and just killing crushers just fine anyway lol
@@Mamox45Also I believe Tanner said Uncanny + Thrust + Carapace gives you a one hit head shot kill on crushers but I think it's zealot specific. Otherwise uncanny is still niche outside of this kind of build and for good for flamer/inferno.
Whoa mister e uploaded a tanner video?
Femboy vs Femboy fight NOW!!!
this build and the stupid smiling face just piss me off
Brother he just uploaded. To be leaving comments so fast you are definitely subscribed with the bell turned ON
The laws of equivalent exchange...
I can't believe you made Mr. E so toxic, he was innocent, how dare you! :( (Please keep it up)
"I got in trouble before with the meta police...TaNnEr"
My fucking sides in orbit.
Evolved to critical Mister T.
>guide says that bad luck with specials that insta delete your toughness like poxbursters
>Also says stamina is trash when the optimal way to deal with poxbursters is to push them and dodge back...which takes stamina
>Also says that combat ability regen is a waste of a lot when they picked chastise the wicked as their ability....which can restore toughness in those hypothetical "bad luck" moments.
Not only does this person not know what they're talking about, I'd argue their internal logic isn't even consistent.
THANK YOU this is the main reason cdr is meta even on zealot it removes what ever shreds of inconsistency there is
Failing to dodge a sniper or push a burster as a Zealot is just a skill check fail.
It happens but you can't build to totally safeguard it or you'll lack other things.
His build does literally the opposite of everything I attempt to do on my most aggressive Zealot builds. Constant charging, constant critting, constant damage reduction, constant CDR, this build reads like the guy is shitposting almost.
stamina and cdr are trash on zel fr
The enemies which this author points out are the exact enemies that you can hear from a mile away. Burster growls before he spawns and ticking after, the clicking of a flamer, the buzz of a sniper spawns.
Taking toughness always makes sense to me
TBF, fartshart has spaghetti code, 80% of the time with more than 60~90 active units audio instances from other map chunks gets culled for no fucking reason.
Maybe the author plays while listening to music and can't hear game audio?
I bought the game few days ago and this was the first build I chose. I dropped it as soon as Damnation diff and your channel showed up in my recommendation haha. Your build just makes more sense to me and I actually just needed to tweak very little from it to suit me better compared to the build shown in the video.
Thanks for the build and the education video!
at 22:10 you mention flamers - remember that back in the day getting touched by fire would zero your toughness. I think you nailed it when you mentioned that this build is likely very old - heck I ran health curios until recently when I began to learn about this game again.
Just a shame to see them pretending to have “updated it for UnL” when they have not and probably just added more paragraphs of text to justify why their build is still good
But flamer damage reduction was also completely useless even back then since they dealt barely any direct damage and the curio dmg reduction didnt even work on the ground fire lmfao, so yeah this build is definitely old af AND still bad/nonsensical for the time period
Thy wrath be swift is insanely good. You cant be stunned in melee or ranged. Meaning gunners, shotgunners, reapers etc wont knock you back. Ofc if you have perfect play you wont need it but it means you dont need to respect ranged enemies at all.
When bro said Stam is garbage, I died of sadness and want to write letter to GL topped with a purity seal.
I hate this build so much because the way it's structured really gives the *impression* that the writer knows exactly what they're talking about. In hindsight, and in no small part thanks to Tanner's and Torninator's videos, it's easy to see just how many mistakes they make, but there's the illusion of competence.
I do think there's space for comfort picks even in a meta build. Meta should assume *realistic* skill imo, not hypothetical top skill. Holy Revenant isn't always great, but if you're a player that does find themselves in a situation where you're fucked, not going down for 3ish seconds can be enough for a player to get their shit together and not go down. Is it always good? No. But I do think the "building to fail" argument doesn't work as well for Holy Revenant as it does a Wound curio.
Also to be fair, sometimes the Ai director does become a little unfair. A poxburster jumping through a door is a skill issue, but something like a trapper being drowned out by all the audio and then shooting through a crusher so that you can't even see the net.. I mean, there's only so much awareness you can expect from the player. It's maybe not luck, but sometimes the AI director just expects too much.
I've got builds on there, even called meta, with Holy Revenant. It allows for very aggressive plays. Or yes, a silent trapper might net you into a crusher overhead. Sure, if you take a couple points of damage most missions, Holy Revenant is not that great. On a typical evening I can't play at that level for more than a few games if at all. Tired after work and baked, relaxing with some auric quickplays - mistakes will happen.
There's so many little quirks with the specials in this game that I think investing 2 points into a safety net that could turn a bullshit wipe into a clutch is not "building to fail" its preparing for the worst and still playing your best, and yeah if you're going 90% of your games without going down sure, maybe get some more toughness or offense or utlity and kick the safety net, but I've absolutely had some mental turnarounds thanks to Holy Revenant that otherwise would have just been a wipe. And often that's just some nonsense like an ENEMY gunner shooting a flamer and causing it to detonate when I melee it at super low health while fighting yknow 500 things. Yes, that is a fucking thing, test it. Its bullshit.
Running ud/hr is way more worth it than wound curios. Although ill go several games without using it, its in a good spot on the skill tree and can save you in unwinnable situations when the ai director gets a bit quirky at night.
Wound curios, however, are terrible(unless its a zealot with martydom). You are actively putting the burden on your team to revive you multiple times in a single life which can put them at risk. Its to the point where i will straight up leave u on the floor and let you bleed out to waste your wound curios if you run that shit in my lobby.
I had a psyker teammate in a NORMAL maelstrom with easy modifiers that said "stick together or you die this mission is no joke" at the start. He had 3 wound curios and ran smite with bubble shield. He died 5 times and me and my buddy never even went down once and hard carried. People get mad at tanner and others for being pretentious but those people are genuinely just suffering from the dunning-kruger effect.
The game is designed to catch you out. With compete team mates getting netted should never be an issue. Literally 2 secs to unnet. But that's what I like about Darktide no two games are the same. Ever.
Mr. E got the dnd AND PoE bookmarks, he's a nerd fr and I feel so welcome ❤
When 2 people spend too much time together, they start to merge into one big blob.
That explains why im blobbing with your mom every night
@@MisterEtide 🤡
@@MisterEtide got em!
It's not Bad Luck, it's my Bad Connection to the Fatshark Servers.
2001 3013 3001 errors + 200 ping + packet loss brother😭
The true META is having fun :)
Vet: The walking rave
Zel: BONK
Psy: The class in general
Og: Not playing Ogryn :p
Ngl just playing psyker itself can be considered meta with how strong the class is especially when you are using your staffs 24/7(except electrokinetic, its dogshit)
Agreed. Sometimes gaming becomes serious and that defeats the purpose.
Yeah for almost every class now I have adopted taking plus three stamina two toughness Curios all with ability regeneration 5% toughness and stamina regeneration...
Thy Wraith Be Swift basically makes you like ogryn, you can't get stun means you can do comms event while getting hit. If you are maybe solo and need to do those things, it helps.
Also the other day I died to a crusher because one tiny dredge enemy hit me and stunned me right I was doing a charged poke, so it messed up my timing and got slammed. Thy Wraith Be Swift could've saved me there. If you used to play with it for some reason because you go for Loner, you feel the lack of it.
I use it on anything with slow deliberate strikes, a Duelling Sword poke does BS damage and happens fast, a Thunder Hammer strikedown does comparable damage but you're vulnerable for your big attack. Thy Wrath Be Swift is a utility, it lets you be more aggressive and in desperate situations where this optimal play concept goes out the window it ENSURES you get your swings in. It converts Zealot into a brawler who doesn't care if hes it, he will still land a hit.
@@TheOneTrueStAN That's why I don't like this meta build discussion about this game.
Meta builds only work if you have a meta "team" and if you are a meta "player".
Even then this game is not scripted. Even if you play with same team on a same map, things could play out completely differently.
funny, i came here to see what you thought of this build and see this video publish 10 min ago
Mister Telepath-E
@@MisterEtide my main class is psyker lol
All im saying is.... The only thing that I think is META in my wheelhouse of limited knowledge is the dueling sword. Everyone thinks they gangster still they take off the dueling sword.
Every time I think im improving at Darktide, I just take off the Dueling sword and my goodness if that isn't a rude awakening to my lack of skill as a player I dont know what is.
Nothing wrong with using the dueling sword itself dont feel bad about it but it can be good to put it down when you are still learning about the game since it literally stops you from improving badly
It’s not a crutch. I don’t want to hear it. Lalalalalala
Yeah, take games lantern builds with a massive grain of salt.
I've hated this build for ages and it's neat to see you doing a video on it.
I like this type of content, great stuff.
The strawman QnA at the end of their build that agreed with all their points and dismissed any criticism was the best part
One tiny detail, while its around 3.11~3.15 effective toughness per point on most builds, Good Balance is generic DR, so its a point of toughness closer to 2.5 times one point of HP (without going into spillover efficiency where 1 HP 5% perk or if somehow left with 1 spare point and having already grabbed faithful the 10% HP below it is likely very much worth it unless playing 3+ premade, much like how until death can pay for itself, even with mods that mostly bugfix specials to at least alert you properly and 100% if baseline with the soundless/no indicator through-railing blasts like a Demon Souls boss clipping through 2 walls to hit you).
Still correct that 1 stam 2 toughness gives the most bang for buck.
Oh and Thy wrath is 100% S tier, but its just pointless if you have another talent giving you part of same benefit in form of Punishment. The ability to say "no" to AI director being trash and spend your hp as a resource for clear time is extremely satisfying. Fartshart just needs to fix its text (instead of nerfing it) to just say "immune to stuns and slows, hp damage gives you zoom speed like the kids posting toilet memes". It alone does a better job at changing your gameloop and approach to map sections than the entire cluster of Martyrdom ever could with current core mechanics in the best way possible from both design and player use (you get good benefits even if you dont abuse it, if you do, while the game doesnt get easier compared to non-abuse, it does get far more fun and time-investment rewarding).
Mr E the circle is complete. You are the new tanner😂. Great video. Was super
Funny as my friend was trying this build ( as he wanted to not die as much) and I was super confused why he wanted to run all health curios
This doesn't counter any of the points made in this video, but I want to clarify something that I see becoming a more and more frequent misunderstanding.
Meta does not actually mean best, more like most common. Somebody will immediately responds saying it is an acronym for "most effective tactics available" - but that is actually a backronym someone just made up. The term originates from a prefix meaning beyond (or often used to mean self-referential) and has in the gaming space become the shorthand for the original term metagame. This refers the trends of how groups of people play the games, or "the game beyond the game". This was a more pronounced difference in the days of slow internet when local groups often had come up with different consensus on how a game is to be played. Regional metas would evolve, and you still see this to some extent today when looking at differences between how games are played across language barriers.
For PvP oriented games this distinction is a bit more important, as building strategies that are not necessarily viewed as good on their own, but happen to be excellent against whatever the current meta is can be a strong path to victory. In cooperative games following a meta, even if not optimal, provides an immediate understanding of roles and how to solve problems amongst an ad-hoc group of players.
The most hilarious part of this to me is that the original usage of meta often was trying to indicate that a play pattern that was not actually the best, just reinforced by following a group - and through people eager to bandwagon and engagement farming it is coming to mean the opposite of that.
that backronym is how it is intended in the gamer dialect here. I am full aware that meta means "overall" or "10,000 foot view" etc, but this builld says it is the best possible at high skill and tthats a lie
this comment is chefs kiss!!
Yes, thank you. I would also very much question whether the standard Mr E applied (the build has you doing the most damage for your skill investment) even makes sense for a game like darktide with the number of variables in play in any given game. It would imply that there must be one single most optimal build and I don't think that's a thing even if you had perfect knowledge of the game
Despite what dictionaries and wikipedia claim, the meta part from "META tactic" is not a backronym, most effective tactical approach or most efficient tactic available was shorthand in magazines even back in the mid to late 70s and is part of the end of 40s to 50s war theory and psychology (even if popularized in said 70s, but the early part as part of numerous books going over issues of different levels of political conflicts and comparisons to historical equvialents where the point started as arguments for improved decision making through knowledge of what were the most efficient steps to take in any given international or on a lesser scale internal conflict, but there it pointed out that resource control and use of existing logistics aka competency of staff beats any benefits/chance improvements ones strategy can derived from comparing and appropriately using tactical situations on those fronts).
"Metagame" and "metagaming" also dates way back to roleplaying games, with the meaning of acting outside or 'beyond' your character in order to optimise narrative or mechanical advantage. I can't say for certain, but it's definitely a viable contender for an origin of the term given how prevalent it also is in the computer RPGs of today (which is something I would argue Darktide falls closer to in it's systems than your typical competitive game).
At this point this is just a pointless debate on the etymology of a word that most people descriptivistically understand as meaning "the best/most optimal".
Is it really a frequent misunderstanding, or is it maybe just the meaning of words varying between different cultures and/or changing over time?
Stamina is vital, yes. Running out of Stamina reduces your melee damage as well.
I hope bubble joke at the start is an Easter egg
I'll share my red flags for build you SHOULD NOT follow on this website:
For any class:
-x3 health curio
-No stamina Regen on curios
-Toughness regeneration on curios
-Weapons with either 10% elite/specialist/groaner/crit damage
Veteran:
-smoke OR krak grenades, unless you're doing penances.
No, kraks are not good. They don't melt bosses (yes, even with +50% damage), they barely deal 1 bolter mag, if you want a realistic comparison.
-no Iron will (50% tdmg reduction)
Zealot:
-any health sustain related node. You're a toughness brick already.
-no duelist
I'm clueless about psyker, and about Ogryn for the LOVE of the Emperor, don't play taunt (unless you specifically want to make snipers dance on block with the shield, in their heavy concentration condition). Taunting is making it harder for anyone having dodge bonuses on tree or blessings. Which is pretty much everyone in the team. Deal damage, don't "tank", there's no such a thing in Darktide (except for DH but you don't need any taunt, it's already the boss mechanic)
Do you know what you should do? Play this build. Several reasons:
1. Great content
2. Insightful
3. Fun
DO IT!
All builds on games lantern are absolutely bait
Umm... sir? Mr E has posted his builds on GamesLantern.
@HarryO_Possum I retract my comment then, Mr E can do no wrong. :)
Lol, I was just looking for a zealot build because I'm too lazy to make one myself
I’ve played exclusively auric damnation and maelstrom since they’ve been available. Mister E is 💯 with this evaluation. In the end play what’s fun though!
I play a variation of this build, but my intent is to tank and support my team with it
I find PUGs tend to not die or simply don't need clutches when I play it.
There is one instance of bad luck id say in this game and thats silent poxbursters. Sometimes the game just decides not to give an audio cue at all which kills about 90% of your ability to react and deal with them
Ok, his build might be far from ideal and especially the stamina statement giga triggered me, HOWEVER: thanks to this dude I gave the braced autoguns on zealot a try and what can I say? having a blast.
I'd love to know your thoughts on the "Meta" Zealot "stealth" build up there too
I have not used this website before but maybe the person who made this didn't update the build ? Anyway this a good video in case people didn't notice the build wasn't updated.
A nice, and mostly respectful debunk of this build.
I do disagree with you on one thing though, luck is definitely required in public lobbies 😅 (though I have to say, most pick-up groups are fine in this game)
wait how do you make the bolter deal that much damage to bosses? do you just stack uncanny from dueling sword?
I used that build. The rifle it suggests, blows.
love your videos Mister E, but when will we see a helbore build (lvling that thing was pure hell)
Omg i hate that gun
@@MisterEtide There was a time i enjoyed helbore. The time before i got my hands on that hot plasma.
@@MisterEtide i think they are super cool, but doesnt really fit into the current game
Im a helbore enthusiast and have run it regularly into damnation, can be rough in auric damnation and especially auric maelstrom depending on the map and map modifier.
Maybe I should join a stream to show it :D
Would you be interested in us sharing a build for you to comment on?
We could add some context (main idea, core elements) and you could either try it out and add comment during gameplay or just show the build.
Go ahead
That dude's builds have always been weird and always been called "meta". He was recommending the auto pistol for the longest time.
Tanner-core build fr
9:22 It would be 20% for one Resist, 36% for two Resists, and 48.8% for three Resists.
Y'know im kinda getting used to these rant videos
You should see his Stealth version, lmao
Oh god
ok so first though, this build and especially the curios looks like a build from a long time vermintide player and newer darktide player. the hp being a holdover from temp hp existing, the defences against ranged mobs, the gun with a good amount of ammo and ESPECIALLY the corruption resist, which you would always have in vermintide since grims spawned every match and you always wanted them. if this was vt2 this would be a decent saltzpire low life build, since his version of martydom worked a bit odd with max hp iirc. just a vt2 players idea of a good dt build
Tbh if this is just a vt2 carry-over build then the author probably wasn't very good at that game either. No one takes grimoires on cataclysm and anyone coming from vt2 would usually have block efficiency on all of their curios.
Most well-rated builds on gameslantern aren't all that impressive. During the early days you could just put "[Auric Maelstrom] ______ META 1v2 KARNAK TWINS" and get 20 upvotes for nothing, and this build has been around as long as I remember. That's why it's so important to break down WHY a build is good, and constantly try new ones
For builds?
I go to content creators who stream, like you, Tanner, Vamp, Telepots, etc.
I realize many people use discord and wikis or whatever website this is referencing, so policing crap builds is important.
I will not tolerate TWBS slander.
i tried out his builds for fun after watching this, hot damn its shit, feels like manoeuvrability was significantly worse then the current builds. Was a good waste of my life
Is this the slop content Tanner has warned me about?
I think you mean slop content and no, this is highly educational and should be taught in high school to all americans
Hope you fixed your ceiling fan.
Just want you to be aware, incase idiots in the future decide to investigate a single frame that shows what you recently watched on YT.
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, simply saw others fall prey to it because hitting record and posting is easy to get used to.
Stay safe brother, and thanks for the content.
I love the ceiling fan video, i keep it up there in the hopes that people will check it out haha
having corruption resistance on your curios and then calling stamina trash is probably the most reddit take i have ever seen, no wonder it has so many likes.
i made an account to downvote the jabronies build and upvote tanners
Don't all these builds only matter if you can complete Auric level and have a premade team of folks who know what they are doing?
Bros really saying that stamina is garbage because "if you can't keep yourself alive without extra Stamina, not having enough Stamina is not the problem" when they shamelessly took multiple DR perks for multiple avoidable damage types (like snipers??) and also took the Zealot cheat death. You can't make that up, I'm convinced this GL page is a bit.
They so clearly dont use any stamina and take a ton of stray hits as a result.
Tanner is rubbing off on ya, eh?
Ew
What the hell happened recently? Been seeing several videos all criticizing meta in Darktide today…
Nothing?
Coincidence
Honestly, probably just your algorithm, but I can say personally that I'm taking the idea of meta builds more seriously with Havoc mode on the horizon. Builds are about to matter more than they ever did before.
The ps5 launch is happening soon. Lot of people are uploading stuff calling it "META To CLICK BAIT NEW PLAYERS" and then recommending objectively bad choices that are not by definition meta (for example, any veteran build calling itself meta and taking Rending Strikes should probably be scrutinized heavily, Rending Strikes mathematically DOES NOT improve your shots to kill on any enemy in a meaningful enough way to justify going for it) so a lot of long time enfranchised players are getting a bit upset about this kind of stuff and being more critical about anyone claiming something is Meta. Even older guides such as this one are being analyzed and critiqued.
I don't like the viewpoint you have on cheat death/thy wrath. I have my own build I run without those two nodes, but there are times I do and having that buffer to play more aggressively is arguably better than some other talents. Its easy enough to get on a piety/charge build, I don't see why you couldn't take a point out of the ambuscade and desperation node (that will go mostly unused by the vast majority of players) for cheat death. What makes it strong is that it's a 2 minute cooldown, so you can proc it and have the CD reset again for another go before you even reach the next medicae station. I'm not defending the health curios here, but since the healing from cheat death is percentage based, you'll get more health back the more base health you have.
It's important to keep a lot of people aren't "hardcore gamers like us" and there is a lot of information to absorb at any given time in this game which not everyone can or is willing to do flawlessly every game, and these same people are going to be looking on youtube for build ideas.
But yeah fuck those "meta builds" they're shit.
Cheat death is fine. Its only one point more and the benefit is pretty good. Many builds can afford it, and i would even say that it could be considered within the realm of meta. What isnt meta is the rest of this nonsense lol
I've come to the conclusion that there is no "meta" (in the 'most effective tactics available' sense) in Darktide. Every build's performance depends mostly on play style, and a fair bit on skill, than it does on the build. Even 'perfectly' skilled players have very different play styles, and so two very high skill players can experience very different outcomes while running identical builds. No one has tried out all of the possible play styles with all of the possible builds, and so every judgement about what is 'the best' is inevitably very limited to their subjective experiences. Thus, imo all that "meta" really means for Darktide is "popular". No doubt the popular picks are on average the stronger picks, but in no way are they necessarily the optimal picks. My take away is that if you want to meaningfully judge a build it is necessary to watch some game play footage of it being used effectively, than it is to just look at the build. Often I come to the conclusion that given their play style and skill level, it very likely is the most optimal build *for them*. If we could watch some game play footage by the author of the build this video is about, I expect we'd come to this conclusion.
To use an example to flesh out my PoV. I run Purgatus with ER, which isn't popular/"meta" because such a build normally struggles to generate enough peril to 6 stack shriek on cooldown. But ER does let you maintain full stacks of blaze away forever, which is a significant boost to damage output. If you throw in a force sword with close to 0 warp resistance to solve the peril generation issue you end up with the mathematically optimal build for maximum Purgatus damage output (if played aggressively with good peril awareness, game sense, and the mobility tech to stay alive). I've shared my build with many people, many of them unarguably good/great players, and watched them play it. Unfortunately it normally doesn't go particularly well for them because they aren't playing it in the way that makes it the strongest. Even worse, the build depends on probably the hardest rolled weapon to now get, so the number of players that can really test it out and practice pushing it to its limits are fairly restricted. So it isn't ever likely to become popular enough to be considered meta, regardless of its actual superiority. This experience is largely why I've come to the conclusion that whenever "meta" is used in any discussion around Darktide it really means nothing more than "popular".
An aside, but I'm fairly sure the highest possible damage output of any build, for a player with perfect skill, would be with a Void Strike Staff running Surge + Flurry and True Aim. I mean perfect as in 100% weak spot hit rate (including the double shots from Surge), perfect choice between primary and secondary, perfect amount of secondary charge to kill every target/group of targets, perfectly prioritizing elites/specials to proc PC, attacking blind so the orbs connect the instant targets enter LoS, etc, etc. I'm yet to see anyone get remotely close to executing that in actual game play footage though. But if they did would it become considered meta? My guess is probably not, because it is so hard to execute it just wouldn't become popular.
Meta is what does more damage and takes the least damage, basically. If your purgatus build pulls ahead of beefs or whoever elses when skill isnt a factor, its the meta choice. But in this case, i am perfectly fine with saying things are meta within like a 1-2 talent difference, like thrust vs precog on the duelling sword. Thats pretty damn close to meta. What ISNT meta is building health and sniper damage resistance
@@MisterEtide For sure, by any definition of 'meta' that build really ain't it. Though I still think it fairly likely that in the hands of the author it might still be the optimal fit. If a player is bad at dodging snipers, and regularly takes chip damage, then those curios probably do help more than anything else would.
Beef is a good example, though one that I think highlights the significant difference that play style makes to the outcome. I believe he runs a knife, giving his build much better kiting and survivability through mobility. Also all the peril bouncing and lack of ER in his build results in a ton more toughness regen. Those differences make it a good fit for some play styles, but bad for others.
Which is really better? Is higher damage worth higher fragility? I dunno tbh. In a full team, probably more yes. In a duo, maybe more not? For a stubborn aggressive player, probably more yes. For a slippery survivor, probably more not.
Whenever I get asked which staff is 'the best' I always answer 'whichever one you enjoy enough to put in the effort to master', because I've seen various Psykers do insanely impressive things with their favorite staff, while being fairly normal with the others.
I guess at the end of the day I just think Darktide is too subtle and complex to clearly determine 'the best' in the way it is possible for many other video games with far more predictable and constrained game play.
Meta shmeta
I use untill death on a lot of my zealot builds because no matter how good you are, youre not perfect and it sucks when one missed overhead ends your run
Thats fine, as i said, it’s probably the choice i have the least issue with.
Wait,
The tanner meta build is putting Uncanny over Precog on the dueling sword?
What the fuck is happening? lol
did tanner 180 on Uncanny?
Of all the weapons the DS with crit build doesn't feel like it needs uncanny, but def benefits from it. Is it considered better than precog now?
it lets your knives kill stuff they otherwise couldnt, and buffs bolter damage.
@@MisterEtide Does uncanny not fall off when swapping to ranged weapon?
I like uncanny too, but been recently using precog + thrust and 5% crit and just killing crushers just fine anyway lol
@@Mamox45Also I believe Tanner said Uncanny + Thrust + Carapace gives you a one hit head shot kill on crushers but I think it's zealot specific.
Otherwise uncanny is still niche outside of this kind of build and for good for flamer/inferno.