I love the fact that you cover subjects in your vlogs. Makes it way more interesting and i can also just drop my phone in my. Pocket while i do chores or when im cooking. Keep up the good work
Bikrix Juggernaut “DUO” got scratched off my list because you can’t add a second battery to the 17” step over model. No clue how it makes any sense that a “DUO” can’t have two batteries, hence why it’s called a Duo.
Gazelle, a Dutch made ebike from the Netherlands, makes a variety of commuter/sport bikes with high quality Bosch performance live mid drive motors. These are class 1 and class 3 bikes and are sold via bike shops. The maintenance and parts availability is a big selling point for buying through a LBS verses mail order from china. The Gazelle Medeo T10 I own has high quality shimano Devore derailleurs and disc brakes. The Dutch know how to build bikes and Gazelle has been building bike for over 100 years. My wife and I have been very happy with the bikes. The Medeo T10 costs $3100.
I just purchased a Gazelle C380 + 28 mph peddle assist only. It comes with a belt drive and a CVT New is $4,700. I found one used with 93 miles for $3,200 Gazelle is a 129 year old Dutch company. It has no throttle but it feels like a real bike when you peddle unlike the rear hub. 250 watt Bosch motor which puts out 85 nm which was slightly more than my Bafang rear hub 750 watt motor which ate up the 15 amp battery in 21 miles. Belt drive is the way to go for a mid drive since it stresses the cassette and chain.
I have a few eBikes between my wife and I. We got a Specialized Levo Comp from last year that I really enjoy for off-road. We got a Santa Cruz Bronson she loves, and a Nireeka Prime that I fully spec'd from $2,300 to $4K as delivered. We love the Specialized and Santa Cruz-- they are both amazing for off-road, but the Nireeka at about 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of my others is by far the best value... and it is the second lightest, works great on both on AND off road, and is fastest for when I need it on-road or otherwise. Given that it is a 1500 Watt with a light carbon fiber frame, top Shimano group and feels so good, the only negative is that it took 6 months to get it delivered. However, at $4K the Nireeka is absolutely freaking amazing, given that it competes in so many ways with my other bikes at double to triple the price and is faster, torquier and has really decent balance. The only thing I don't know is whether it would hold-up as well if I used it really hard exclusively for off-road. So far I think it could as it is as tight and shows no issues after months of on-road and off-foray pounding. Great value in any case and just an FYI.
There’s no way I would pay Specialized money for a Bosch Motor…who “Specializes” in lowly 250w motors. To me this is like the opposite extreme of the people who have/want obnoxious ebike power like 3000w…it’s like why not just get a motorcycle dude? So I feel like going below 500w is a similar but opposite extreme…like why not just go with no motor and get a regular bike dude?
@@joebuck4496 We all project, but all I can say is that different strokes for different folks. We’ve seen that majority of the average to serious riders like Nireeka or the Lotus we got (if you think that the Specialized is over-priced, just forget about the amazing 27 lb gem that the custom Lotus 560 watt eBike is. Totally worth the wait. Opposite ends of the value spectrum, both at the same extreme end of the fun spectrum.
@@joebuck4496 - Sounds like you’ve never ridden a Nireeka or any of the better Specialized EB’s. Maybe people like them because there is a lot more to a great EB than the motor. All the things that matter for a regular bike matter at least as much for a great EBike. Get some experience and wisdom before writing about things you feel a need to project about.
@@marklinden5718 lol watts are a unit of power, not a projection. But I understand that this is subjective and would be like arguing that a 4 cylinder car is “Bad” but a V8 is “Good”
I’m using a 52 volt 20ah battery with my BBSHD. And only had to change settings from the display. And with different controllers people run 72 volts. The real advantage of the mid drive, with how every many gears you may have, is for the VERY expensive, big brand names that are seriously under powered. Why ? I suspect it’s not just the laws and keeping the speed down, it’s mid drives that chew through drive trains. Or why I went with an IGH. A little Sturmey Archer 3 speed. The hub costs less than the good Sram 9 speed cassette. And again, with all that torque, 160nm, you don’t need a whole bunch of gears. So I have a Lekkie 40T &cover on order...I am purposely gearing the bike down to not go over 30mph on the flat. Bike is already crazy going uphill in the dirt, now it’s going to be better yet. And because it’s a hardtail, also on order is the PNW Coast suspension /dropper.
So you like the IHG. Im debating going that route with my BBHD. I realigned my casset so that the 3-4 gears i use the most are the most centrally aligned with my Lekki. It works pretty well but i think the IHG would be nice as long as it can hold up to the power over time. Thank you for sharing.
Hey there! I just stumbled upon an incredible new project called the freebeat Morph 2-in-1 eBike. It's a game-changer in the eBike world! One of the standout features is its ability to recharge indoors. How cool is that? I totally understand your concerns about mid drives and drive train wear, but the Morph eBike tackles this issue with its smart motor control algorithm and outstanding torque. The removable 48V 15Ah battery provides an impressive range, and with its versatile technology, you can tailor your riding experience to your preferences. It's definitely worth checking out! Keep exploring and enjoy your rides. Cheers!
I don't care about the laws in regards to ebikes. I want speed and a throttle. So if you could show more of that it would be great. I like peddling but sometimes I'm just not into it and when you're on the street it should have a switch you can switch it to street legal. Thanks
I love Luna stuff. I've built 2 conversions with their kits. 1 Ludicrous HD & an 02 detuned to be "class 1" (both 52 volt). What drive you get should be based on what kind of riding you intend to do. Probably an unpopular choice but, for trail riding I'd suggest the BBS02. The 02 has street legal power but more than enough with the right gearing, is very light, easy to install, doesn't eat through a charge fast & is the best bang for buck. The BBSHD is better if you want to use the throttle more but is a little more expensive & heavier than the 02. If you want something to throttle around on like a gas powered bike the CYC is definitely the choice. Both the 02 & HD have internal controllers which is nice for a clean install & look. For real power, torque and throttle finesse it's between the HD & CYC and both would require an upgraded external controller (though you can get a CYC kit already suped up with a controller).
@@weaverjoshuab I only know what I read about the CYC. Swapping my controller on the HD wasn't difficult but it was made to replace the stock and fits the same space. All I can suggest is research until your brain hurts. When you do fiddle with settings make sure first to read ALL the current settings and save them. Worst case is you go back to stock settings.🤷♂
Hwy, sounds like you know your stuff. I live in thr cascade mountains of Oregon. (VERY steep) gravel roads. I want a BIKE, with thr power of a dirt bike! Something that can pack 300 pounds of man and gear (maybe wvn a 100 pounds of trailer too) up these steep mountains, not extreme off road, but, super high power. I have the intelligence to do a custom build, if it comes to that, I also would rather pay 2 grand instead of 6 grand.... but....
@@jackdundon2261 I did my research years ago so things may have changed. Unllless you want to go fast up mountains you don't need that much power. It really depends on how much effort you want to put in yourself & how fast you want to go. Since a mid-drive uses the gears on the bike anything over 750 watts can climb a mountain, if the gearing is low enough but it'll be slow. A 3-5 kw mid drive should be able to haul up hills at around 20 mph on throttle alone but on mountains I'd worry about overheating. If speed isn't an issue then a BBSHD (1000 watts out of the box) with a 30t chain ring & 42t or bigger granny gear will climb anything the tires can grip (it will be prone to wheelies on take off in low gears on throttle). For greater speed (and throttle sensitivity) CYC is a good choice. The CYC motors will give you closer to dirt bike performance but aren't as cheap or easy to get parts for. The BBSHD is less programmable (unless you swap out the stock controler). Good luck on the build. Ride on & enjoy;)
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 sweet, yeah, I am not worried about speed, I have used a inexpensive 18 speed to climb these hills on pedal power, but, it's exhausting! In the cascade mountains, there is a lot of private and even some public lands they gate, you CAN ride behind them. Walk. Horseback, ride. (No motor bikes or quads). I want to be able to ride or drive my truck to a gate, jump on my mt bike and ride 2 or 3 or 20 miles. Maybe camp, or hunt. And not be exhausted. I want to avoid fat tires even (I want to draw as little attention as I can, so avoiding e dirt bikes). I think a build is my solution. Thanks for the information.
The Rockstar is available now. The Bafang motor cuts off at 35mph. It will do over 30mph easily. Big motor, big battery lots of power. Heavy, large size, more suited toward bigger riders. No place to store personal items.
Sondors also had Bafang lock the power max at 1000w. An unlocked Bafang Ultra will easily handle 1500w. That's a 50% increase. Mr. Sondors doesn't thinks anyone needs more then 500w in an ebike.
Kevin, all e-bikes have their pos+ & neg-, for instance, the Biktrik is a great machine, but as with a lot of manufacturers, they advertise big motor, big wattage(speed) but put in undersized batteries. (52v x 17.5ah = 910w ) A 20ah+ battery is recommended. "Out of Gas" and pushing the 70lb+ bike?????
@@wlew3499 Biktrix does not push small batteries. In fact they are one of the first to offer dual batteries. The low wattage Euro reg supporters, Bosch, Brose, Specialized etc. are the ones pushing for small batteries. By supporting the Euro regs these companies can manufacture low power motors combined with small batteries for rediculous prices and the corresponding profit, simultaneously reducing the danger of warrenty claims for motor burnouts. Why would you think one must push the bike if the battery is exhausted?
Here are some information for everybody watching the video. All three of the bikes that he suggested are made in China. Additionally all your main stream bike manufacturers high-end are typically made in Taiwan. I don't know of one E bike of any classification that is made in the United States. Several may be assembled from parts from China or other parts of the world but none are made here.
I'm suprised you didn't mention the Giant with the Yamaha mid motor electric and priced under $2500. The Yamaha electric motor is close to being as good as the Bosch.
Over 5 years ago when I saw a Giant at my local Yamaha dealer while buying oil for my RD I was told that Yamaha and Bosch are the two best mid drive motors made.
Great video could you please provide me with your opinion of the Lectric XPremium Mid Drive ebike as far as what you think of that brand and model motor
Me too. Just placed my order a week ago and sales are already through the roof. Wait time is about 2 months. As far as the brand goes, I had their XP 2.0. This is a solid company with the best customer service in the US.
Man you really go fast, I mean sometimes you were at 15 meters/ second, bravo but I hope you have some protection kit, keep up the good work... and the higher speed !
Where I live, I want to take a MT bike past "gates", they allow bikes or even E-bikes, but, NOT motor cycles. And a e-dirt. Ike would likely still be a No-No. So I want the power of a motor cycle in the body of a Mt bike. (I don't even want fat boy tires). This is just me, I am sure others want the modularity of a mt. Bike.but, the performance of a motor cycle. BUT, I am speculation at this point.
I went with option 3 a little over a year ago, I purchased 1000W Bafang BBSHD ($675), a 52V Battery ($475) an a Like New/Used Diamondback mountain bike ($200). I really have nothing to compare it with, as this is my first ebike but I couldnt be happier. Im 225lb and the bike will go 36+mph and it gets there pretty fast. I haven't personally crossed paths with any bike that has more performance. It literally took me 45min to do the conversion and maybe that long doing wire management/ organization. The only maintenance I have needed is brake pads!LOL IMO folks are wasting thousands of dollars and getting less performance when buying store bought mid-drives.
Bobby, I would like to build one also. Going to go to the bike store to see if they can help me out with the modification. And got to find a maintain bike first.
I was surprise to find that the route you biked took you past my fathers place. I know the area well and I walk my dog by the lake area all the time. Is there a shop that can convert mountain bikes near there you know of, or only places that sell new e-bikes.
One thing to consider is: The Rockstar is 80lbs with over 20Ah battery, but no place for an addition one and is only one size. So that makes it in to another class. The over 80lbs, with over 20Ah battery, and with only 1 size class. Don't you think? The only other ebikes that fit kind of into that category are the Fat Tire ebikes that have additional battery capacity. like the: EUNORAU 48V1000W SPECTER S Dual Battery. You can get it with the 27.5 boost for extra. Or the HIMIWAY COBRA PRO, But the thing is that if you want big battery and power, you will get the better value on a fat tire ebike. So comparing a Rockstar to other Boost 27.5 bikes isn't quite right. In conclusion, a 26X4" wide tire or even the 4.8" tire is only a minor issue and not a category or class to compare really. I do like the 27.5X3 but a 26X4 is pretty close in diameter and at high pressure would have almost the same street riding resistance. The 4.8 is overboard but still the same principle applies. Neither is going to hinder you when you have a 1000watt motor.
I know a good brand that makes relatively cheap and good quality bikes named "cube" and for Emtb a good bike for the money is the "reaction hybrid one 500"
Thanks for the video! Liked and sub'd. Question... Will a hub-drive work with a mid-drive on the same bike with dual throttles? Another thought, Is it possible to use a CVT on a mid-drive ebike? Chains are loud and they break. Transmissions are mechanical, heavy and expensive. CVT's are lightweight, cheap, quiet and seem like the perfect solution...?
Yes, you CAN even put 3 motors on a bike.... (a lot cheaper too). Plenty of videos of guys do custom bikes... but, I am thinking of a 3 motor bike.... (I live in REAL STEEP mountains and need a bike so far nothing commercial is guanteeed to do what I want).
@@jackdundon2261 , Wow, I never thought about putting a mid drive on a rear hub motor, that'd be wild! I have a new CVT I bought to make a balloon tire river bike and wondered if an electric motor could run it...
I have the Frey Ex Pro and it's phenomenal.. I live in the Philippines and Frey sells them here locally so I got mine the next day after ordering and bypassed the ordeal of having to wait for months.. Compared to the Rockstar and Luna, I personally think that the Frey Ex Pro is the best of the 3, if you compare the specs of all the bikes side by side with their corresponding prices, it's pretty clear that you get more for your $$$ on the Frey..
I sounds like you just use your ebike on the road judging form the bike you got. I prefer more off road riding so the Luna X2 with 2000 watts is my bike of choice and it blows anything Fry is build on price and value.
Hey man, I could not let go the fact that you have compared cruising hipster thingies with proper Enduro and All mountain e MTB's. "It's like saying NHL is nice and all, but your local kids league is hockey too!" it's not all about the voltage, I can tell you that for sure...
the 25 mph limit for e-bikes is stupid, since a lot of non electric bikes can go faster than that down hill. I have an ebike capable of going over 25 but I rarely do it because of the drain it puts on the battery. At the second highest pedal assist level I often get smoked by riders on non electric racing bikes. My only advantage is I can go faster for short stretches and uphill, but over long distance the racing bikes will win every time.
I think the reason so many of these manufacturers are using the 48-volt batteries is because they're trying to keep the speed down. For example this picture s is a mid-drive 48-volt and it uses a bafang 650 motor. This is a torque-sensing motor and we've seen it before and we know that it can take up to 60 V. So the option I believe remains open to use a 15 S battery and just not quite fully charge it and it will stay under 60 V. I have a bbshd bafang motor in that trick works just fine on it
There's no such thing as a "torque sensing motor". Motors have no brains. They're just wires and magnets fed by any motor controller you hook up. You can change out motor controllers just like batteries.
when i bought my frey ht1000 they asked me if i wanted a 48 or 52 volt battery. i opted for 52v and they didnt even charge anything extra. also, i would like to add that frey is not sketchy at all, a good company and the bikes are awesome. but it does take a long time to get one.
@@LarryRichelli range is excellent. i get like 50 miles per charge. i pedal a good amount though. i use sport mode 2/3 most of the time and throttle on stop lights and hills. if i used throttle only range would probably be 20 miles. on eco mode it would go over 100 miles i bet.
Yea, they are great. I had the same bike but took 48 had to leave it behind in China cause the shipping company literally wanted to charge me more than i paid for it. That thing in full sport mode can get scary lol. I used eco a lot. Easy ride 75 km an had loads of battery left as I recall, even while taking a half hour off road being a jackass and eating it once pretty good. The old Chinese man looking at me and shaking his head to his grandson proved I shamed my family.
@@Leevan3 Yea, originally I think I paid like 14,000 rmb or so back in 2019 for it. When I moved back to japan the shipping company backed it up with the rest of my stuff saying it would only be a couple hundred bucks to ship. A few months went by where they couldn’t ship it due to covid lockdowns in Shanghai. Then they told me the shipping would pretty much be the price I paid for the bike…
yay!! i really love those cyc motors, super powerful lil toys though kind of noisy however i woulndt mind the noise if my e mtb can handle 45 degree slopes, looking forward for the videos
@@NPLVentures I'm anticipating your CYC content. I'm currently waiting on a shipment of the latest X1 Stealth motors from Hong Kong to convert my MTB. Are you considering the Box eBike components?
My Haibike xdurirx29r has gone 6000 miles plus with only a battery upgrade from stock replaced $1050 with tax, $750 + tax for original battery... Lost 80 pounds, 20 to go.😁
I am beginning to see cities and towns ban electric bikes from 'bike trails' because they are MOTOR driven and the signage clearly states NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES. So I would be cautious in buying one with the intent of riding on 'bike' trails in the near future.
After years of research, I am thinking this is what I will get: A 2022 Motobecane HAL eBoost M600, $3699.00: Over 5 INCH Travel Full Suspension 27.5Plus / eBoost Mountain Electric bikes Up to 45KPH/28MPH, no carbon fiber to crack. Advanced Integrated Battery, SRAM EAGLE, 1X12 / Electric MidDrive 27.5PLUS Full Suspension Electric Mountain eBikes with SRAM Hydraulic Disc Brakes, Rockshox LockOut 140mm Forks - I will get a bigger battery later.
LOL. that is not what I bought. I got the Rockshox Luna X2 with ludicrous as an after thought. It arrives tomorrow. Yeah! I will make some videos of unpacking and setting it up.
Can anyone explain to a lay person why it makes sense to pay the extra $1k-$2k for these bikes versus say the rad power or other American made hub motor (not the cheap Chinese stuff) bikes? I feel like you get a 750 watt motor with 25 mile an hour speed and good range ... what's better about the mid drive and why is it worth the extra money? Or is it other components?
Having added weight centered between the wheels and way low handles substantially better than having tail weight additionally or like my friend who also has an Haibike Yamaha mid drive, he added a2000 watt hub drive to the front. He did so cuz a was dusting him before. He now rolls @34 mph with nothing more to do than use his thumb.
Initial response: Got this bike for my friend. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxUiL0GnyDjP32RJdd660sP8mZk4CRLTCJ Delivery was fast. And the friend was surprised I would order it when she had never suggested she wanted anything but the pedal bike she had. She has now ridden the bike two times and gives it a 10 and says it is very fun. We have some hills in our town that are very challenging to climb on a typical bike. But tonight she went up with the pedal assist and loved it. I was way behind on my standard bike, huffing and puffing. Now she is no longer lagging behind me. This thing is powerful enough that a person could go around town without any pedaling. She likes to get some exercise so on flat ground she hits the red button to turn off pedal assist and only uses the twist throttle when she's in a tough spot. The bike looks good. It is really a very nice bike for the friend. Now for me, when I get an electric bike, I'm twice her size and will be looking for a bigger watt motor and battery. But this one is just wonderful for my friend. I am happy with this purchase.
How is a mid drive any better or reliable than the hub motor if the mid drive is turning your chain is it possible to have premature wear on the chain or break your chain?
@@pinoyrunningpenguin Pedal assist is lame I turned mine off on my ebikeling system. I have it throttle only and i can adjust the power with the buttons. Its kind of senseless and defeats the purpose of the bike to have peddle assist IMO. I think it's dangerous I fell off my bike from it. I have a 1500w Motor though and 52v battery. That's cool tho my motor is a hub motor.
Do we want a mountain bike frame for a high power motor? Like, the weight of battery and motor would require a suspension? I'm wondering why there are no high power commuter bikes.
Mid drives are viewed as high performance and agile making them a great fit for mountain bikes. Kinda a waste to put a do it all motor on a rigid road bike
Mid drive is the only thing the big three are using or really any actual bike brand is using hub motors are mostly on the cheeper bikes or the ones trying to be mopeds
My brother-in-law ordered the rockstar back in november and has yet to receive it. He is going to cancel the order if they don’t respond to his emails by April.
@@NPLVentures just an update, he received the rockstar yesterday. Not sure why they won’t respond to his emails but he got the bike two weeks after they were back in stock. 👍
I have both, mid-drive and hub motor. I prefer the hub motor. Never thought I'd be saying that. I was thoroughly convinced that mid-drive was better until I got my second ebike which has a hub motor. As you shift up the gears on a mid-drive the motor revs drop and with it the power. OK, you can just leave it in a low gear but then it is useless to pedal. I hate that. No such thing happens with a hub motor, gear selection doesn't matter. Also, shifting is trickier on a mid-drive and you have to shift more. Shifting with a hub motor is no different than on an un-ebike.
@@bobbymaldini7653 Bafang BBSHD 1500w mid drive, Bafang 750w hub drive. Don't let the 750w nominal rating fool you, it's every bit as powerful as the 1500w mid drive.
I think you have it wrong. The big guys are not what you say. The big boys are Trek and Specialized. And for mid drive motors go's to Bosch and Shimano. Bafang make after market mid motors for people who want to convert their bikes to electric. When it comes to bike conversions you have 300 to 1500 watt motors. But tell mew why companies like Trek, Specialized etc. Use 250 watt motors and 418 wh battery?
its so odd to me how different the market is here in europe/germany, here if your bike doesn't have a mid drive you cheaped out and the most sold mid drive is Bosh plus all motors are "250W nominal power usage"
Where did you hear this. I got one of the first X2 bikes with 2000 watts and love it. They did email me saying the they were having a small problem with the battery shutting down. Mine did this maybe 2 times a week but just shutting off the bike and restarting it fixed it for that outing. I got an email from Luna explaining this and that they would be sending me a new, upgraded battery and it just came last week. The don't even want the old battery back so this is like having two batteries. You have to give it to Luna.....I just put carbon wheels on mine so it is just under 50lbs.
@@LarryRichelli That is what I meant. The battery has to work good for ludicrous. Anyway, mine better be shipped soon! It was supposed to be in stock when I ordered the RockShox X2 non-ludicrous two weeks ago. Otherwise I would have got the Z1.
@@beachbarlouie When I bought mine it came within the first week.I would not want this bike without ludicrous but that is just from my experience with it.
Not many mid motor brands? Come look at the Netherlands, we have the highest number of ebikes per capita in the world, almost no rear hub motors, only the older bikes have front hub, 9 out of 10 bikes sold now have mid motors. On flat surface their torque based assist offers by far the best riding experience. Limited to 28kmh ok but that's a reasonably safe speed anyway for most people.
Hey I was wondering if I were to install a rear conversion kit on my bike would there be a certain type of bike I would need or would it work with a single speed, 7 speed, 21 speed, ect??
@@stevenmiller9198 yeah that should work. The things you'll need to be sure about is whether the wheel with hub will fit into the frame and how the torque arm will be mounted. They're usually universal but universal isn't always a perfect for not always safe.
I love the idea of mid drive , but the hub drives out there are out og this world effecint !! lower maintenance , more powerful now ! check out UU motors if Google will allow you ! 8000watt scooter moters dont lie !!
Why do you add that inflection (you know what I'm referring to) to the words you end a sentence with? Post10 does the same thing. Here it is at 4:16. Instead of "frame"...you say "frame-uh".
This is Beta versus VHS all over again. Beta was actually the better system but VHS won by offering more prerecorded content and more manufacturers making the machines . Beta only had Sony.
I had a bbs02 and from my experience i reach +200kms on a single charge and a 38% gradient top speed just 48-49kph thats what our law says so i need to set it on that speed i can make it to 60 if i want but no it will eat my battery so fast the thing is its not the motor is all how you setup the bike my bike isa a diy not a manufactured one way more cheaper but way more power efficient
Check out biktrix juggernaut xd it's a monster at 2000 watts and mid drive. It's a great time to get into ebikes. It's manufactured in Saskatoon saskatchewan Canada 🇨🇦 😎
I'mma make this really simple! I want a mountain bike thay can haul a man and gear total weight probably 300 lb. Up the side of Pikes Peak what E-mountain bike can do that??? (Now let's do that on a gravel road). I don't want a E Dirt Bike. I want to stick with a a Mt bike. Like to avoid fat tires too.
@@blakeberlin6295 duh, Of course I know this but wait until you get passed on one of them, then you will know what they are. Both of them are faster than any modded Sur Ron/Segway
@@blakeberlin6295 I didn't mean passing you on the street. I ment passing you off road. The CAB Eagle and Recon are monsters and you can buy a faster off road bike than the Recon
@@LarryRichelli One of my motorcycles is a dirt bike, so I would still leave you behind. I don't care how or where you're riding or what you like. The topic here is MID drive ebikes. It isn't even the possible speeds of mid drives. If I ask you who the 1st president of the US was, I think you'd answer by telling me to get a cab ebike.
I disagree about the mid drive being more centered weight distribution. because of where power is being made. the power is still being put to the ground at the same point that a hub motor would which is at the back wheel so power out put the same means weight transfer is going to be the same
Ride a center drive & then disagree.... I own a center drive & rode many with a heavy, hard to articulate hub drive. A true game changer for off road agility! The difference is huge in handling.... seriously
you gotta switch between the gears on the mid drive to take full advantage of it. not worth it for me. i don't want to worry about having to change gears
It takes a a unknowing mid drive guy to say something like this.....Having gears is a bonus, it is a feature and something that a lot of us want. We can dial our bikes just how we want it.
Oh no. You fell for the Rockstar BS. If the 9 months waiting period doesn't drive you crazy, your not normal! Monte Capro Ultra is $6000.00 to your house in a week. After all is said and done, I wonder if the components on it make up the price difference?
I love the fact that you cover subjects in your vlogs. Makes it way more interesting and i can also just drop my phone in my. Pocket while i do chores or when im cooking. Keep up the good work
I went with a Bikrix Juggarnaut Ultra Duo 2 with a 52V battery and 1000w motor. It's my first e-bike, but definitely enjoying it so far.
Surprised he didn’t mention the Juggernaut since he was all about higher voltage systems?
Bikrix Juggernaut “DUO” got scratched off my list because you can’t add a second battery to the 17” step over model. No clue how it makes any sense that a “DUO” can’t have two batteries, hence why it’s called a Duo.
@@joebuck4496 Eunny.
Gazelle, a Dutch made ebike from the Netherlands, makes a variety of commuter/sport bikes with high quality Bosch performance live mid drive motors. These are class 1 and class 3 bikes and are sold via bike shops. The maintenance and parts availability is a big selling point for buying through a LBS verses mail order from china. The Gazelle Medeo T10 I own has high quality shimano Devore derailleurs and disc brakes. The Dutch know how to build bikes and Gazelle has been building bike for over 100 years. My wife and I have been very happy with the bikes. The Medeo T10 costs $3100.
Are these available in the US. I looked at their web site and it looks to be not the case
@@LarryRichelli Gazelle sells through bike shops in the U.S. Use the Gazelle dealer locator to find nearest shop that sells them
I've heard good things about Gazelle. I ride a Haibike xdurorx29r (2015) 6000 miles and going strong
I just purchased a Gazelle C380 + 28 mph peddle assist only.
It comes with a belt drive and a CVT
New is $4,700.
I found one used with 93 miles for $3,200
Gazelle is a 129 year old Dutch company.
It has no throttle but it feels like a real bike when you peddle unlike the rear hub.
250 watt Bosch motor which puts out 85 nm which was slightly more than my Bafang rear hub 750 watt motor which ate up the 15 amp battery in 21 miles.
Belt drive is the way to go for a mid drive since it stresses the cassette and chain.
I have a few eBikes between my wife and I. We got a Specialized Levo Comp from last year that I really enjoy for off-road. We got a Santa Cruz Bronson she loves, and a Nireeka Prime that I fully spec'd from $2,300 to $4K as delivered. We love the Specialized and Santa Cruz-- they are both amazing for off-road, but the Nireeka at about 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of my others is by far the best value... and it is the second lightest, works great on both on AND off road, and is fastest for when I need it on-road or otherwise. Given that it is a 1500 Watt with a light carbon fiber frame, top Shimano group and feels so good, the only negative is that it took 6 months to get it delivered.
However, at $4K the Nireeka is absolutely freaking amazing, given that it competes in so many ways with my other bikes at double to triple the price and is faster, torquier and has really decent balance. The only thing I don't know is whether it would hold-up as well if I used it really hard exclusively for off-road. So far I think it could as it is as tight and shows no issues after months of on-road and off-foray pounding. Great value in any case and just an FYI.
Thank you for insight among brands I will explore for a thorough variety in my opening for knowledge with value
There’s no way I would pay Specialized money for a Bosch Motor…who “Specializes”
in lowly 250w motors.
To me this is like the opposite extreme of the people who have/want obnoxious ebike power like 3000w…it’s like why not just get a motorcycle dude? So I feel like going below 500w is a similar but opposite extreme…like why not just go with no motor and get a regular bike dude?
@@joebuck4496 We all project, but all I can say is that different strokes for different folks. We’ve seen that majority of the average to serious riders like Nireeka or the Lotus we got (if you think that the Specialized is over-priced, just forget about the amazing 27 lb gem that the custom Lotus 560 watt eBike is. Totally worth the wait. Opposite ends of the value spectrum, both at the same extreme end of the fun spectrum.
@@joebuck4496 - Sounds like you’ve never ridden a Nireeka or any of the better Specialized EB’s. Maybe people like them because there is a lot more to a great EB than the motor. All the things that matter for a regular bike matter at least as much for a great EBike. Get some experience and wisdom before writing about things you feel a need to project about.
@@marklinden5718 lol watts are a unit of power, not a projection. But I understand that this is subjective and would be like arguing that a 4 cylinder car is “Bad” but a V8 is “Good”
I’m using a 52 volt 20ah battery with my BBSHD. And only had to change settings from the display. And with different controllers people run 72 volts. The real advantage of the mid drive, with how every many gears you may have, is for the VERY expensive, big brand names that are seriously under powered. Why ? I suspect it’s not just the laws and keeping the speed down, it’s mid drives that chew through drive trains. Or why I went with an IGH. A little Sturmey Archer 3 speed. The hub costs less than the good Sram 9 speed cassette. And again, with all that torque, 160nm, you don’t need a whole bunch of gears. So I have a Lekkie 40T &cover on order...I am purposely gearing the bike down to not go over 30mph on the flat. Bike is already crazy going uphill in the dirt, now it’s going to be better yet. And because it’s a hardtail, also on order is the PNW Coast suspension /dropper.
You are doing it right my friend!
So you like the IHG. Im debating going that route with my BBHD. I realigned my casset so that the 3-4 gears i use the most are the most centrally aligned with my Lekki. It works pretty well but i think the IHG would be nice as long as it can hold up to the power over time. Thank you for sharing.
Hey there! I just stumbled upon an incredible new project called the freebeat Morph 2-in-1 eBike. It's a game-changer in the eBike world! One of the standout features is its ability to recharge indoors. How cool is that? I totally understand your concerns about mid drives and drive train wear, but the Morph eBike tackles this issue with its smart motor control algorithm and outstanding torque. The removable 48V 15Ah battery provides an impressive range, and with its versatile technology, you can tailor your riding experience to your preferences. It's definitely worth checking out! Keep exploring and enjoy your rides. Cheers!
I don't care about the laws in regards to ebikes. I want speed and a throttle. So if you could show more of that it would be great. I like peddling but sometimes I'm just not into it and when you're on the street it should have a switch you can switch it to street legal. Thanks
Get yourself a CAB Eagle and you will be loving life.
At this point get a motorcycle if you don't want to pedal, typical american
@@rikyrossi9518 Try reading his comment. "I like peddling but sometimes I'm just not into it."
@@Andrew-it7fb I love cycling,but i dont🤣
@@GG-ml3vr Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean you always want to do it.
Frey makes some seriously nice bikes. They are all hand made by a small family place. They produce just 5 bikes per day under usual circumstances.
yesss Nice mid drive + hub motor can't wait to see the result :)
Excellent information and easy to listen to. Will sub&Like.
I love Luna stuff. I've built 2 conversions with their kits. 1 Ludicrous HD & an 02 detuned to be "class 1" (both 52 volt).
What drive you get should be based on what kind of riding you intend to do. Probably an unpopular choice but, for trail riding I'd suggest the BBS02. The 02 has street legal power but more than enough with the right gearing, is very light, easy to install, doesn't eat through a charge fast & is the best bang for buck. The BBSHD is better if you want to use the throttle more but is a little more expensive & heavier than the 02. If you want something to throttle around on like a gas powered bike the CYC is definitely the choice. Both the 02 & HD have internal controllers which is nice for a clean install & look. For real power, torque and throttle finesse it's between the HD & CYC and both would require an upgraded external controller (though you can get a CYC kit already suped up with a controller).
Looked at cyc and bbshd. So confusing to try to upgrade controller or software.
@@weaverjoshuab I only know what I read about the CYC. Swapping my controller on the HD wasn't difficult but it was made to replace the stock and fits the same space. All I can suggest is research until your brain hurts. When you do fiddle with settings make sure first to read ALL the current settings and save them. Worst case is you go back to stock settings.🤷♂
Hwy, sounds like you know your stuff. I live in thr cascade mountains of Oregon. (VERY steep) gravel roads. I want a BIKE, with thr power of a dirt bike! Something that can pack 300 pounds of man and gear (maybe wvn a 100 pounds of trailer too) up these steep mountains, not extreme off road, but, super high power.
I have the intelligence to do a custom build, if it comes to that, I also would rather pay 2 grand instead of 6 grand.... but....
@@jackdundon2261 I did my research years ago so things may have changed. Unllless you want to go fast up mountains you don't need that much power. It really depends on how much effort you want to put in yourself & how fast you want to go. Since a mid-drive uses the gears on the bike anything over 750 watts can climb a mountain, if the gearing is low enough but it'll be slow. A 3-5 kw mid drive should be able to haul up hills at around 20 mph on throttle alone but on mountains I'd worry about overheating.
If speed isn't an issue then a BBSHD (1000 watts out of the box) with a 30t chain ring & 42t or bigger granny gear will climb anything the tires can grip (it will be prone to wheelies on take off in low gears on throttle). For greater speed (and throttle sensitivity) CYC is a good choice. The CYC motors will give you closer to dirt bike performance but aren't as cheap or easy to get parts for. The BBSHD is less programmable (unless you swap out the stock controler).
Good luck on the build.
Ride on & enjoy;)
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 sweet, yeah, I am not worried about speed, I have used a inexpensive 18 speed to climb these hills on pedal power, but, it's exhausting!
In the cascade mountains, there is a lot of private and even some public lands they gate, you CAN ride behind them. Walk. Horseback, ride. (No motor bikes or quads). I want to be able to ride or drive my truck to a gate, jump on my mt bike and ride 2 or 3 or 20 miles. Maybe camp, or hunt. And not be exhausted. I want to avoid fat tires even (I want to draw as little attention as I can, so avoiding e dirt bikes). I think a build is my solution.
Thanks for the information.
The Rockstar is available now. The Bafang motor cuts off at 35mph. It will do over 30mph easily. Big motor, big battery lots of power. Heavy, large size, more suited toward bigger riders. No place to store personal items.
The Bafang motor cuts out at 35mph because Storm Saunders specified that with Bafang. My Biktrix with the same motor will go almost 40.
Sondors also had Bafang lock the power max at 1000w. An unlocked Bafang Ultra will easily handle 1500w. That's a 50% increase. Mr. Sondors doesn't thinks anyone needs more then 500w in an ebike.
Kevin, all e-bikes have their pos+ & neg-, for instance, the Biktrik is a great machine, but as with a lot of manufacturers, they advertise big motor, big wattage(speed) but put in undersized batteries. (52v x 17.5ah = 910w ) A 20ah+ battery is recommended. "Out of Gas" and pushing the 70lb+ bike?????
@@wlew3499 I've have 2 17.5ah batteries. There is also the 21ah option. The bike also pedals well without using the motor, just a tad heavy.
@@wlew3499 Biktrix does not push small batteries. In fact they are one of the first to offer dual batteries. The low wattage Euro reg supporters, Bosch, Brose, Specialized etc. are the ones pushing for small batteries. By supporting the Euro regs these companies can manufacture low power motors combined with small batteries for rediculous prices and the corresponding profit, simultaneously reducing the danger of warrenty claims for motor burnouts. Why would you think one must push the bike if the battery is exhausted?
Here are some information for everybody watching the video. All three of the bikes that he suggested are made in China. Additionally all your main stream bike manufacturers high-end are typically made in Taiwan. I don't know of one E bike of any classification that is made in the United States. Several may be assembled from parts from China or other parts of the world but none are made here.
Taiwan isn't China.
Yes. Most people aren't willing to pay the additional cost required to have then manufactured domestically.
@@Andrew-it7fb Paying for quality in your own country is worth it.
@@sammiller6631
Once upon a time
@@markb6295 and still today
I'm suprised you didn't mention the Giant with the Yamaha mid motor electric and priced under $2500. The Yamaha electric motor is close to being as good as the Bosch.
And it's 1000 dolrs less than Bosch. Haibike xdurorx29r (2015) with 6000 miles going on strong!
Over 5 years ago when I saw a Giant at my local Yamaha dealer while buying oil for my RD I was told that Yamaha and Bosch are the two best mid drive motors made.
So according to you Bafang motors are not as good as Bosch or Yamaha ?
Alriight im here for the journey and the knowledge
Great video could you please provide me with your opinion of the Lectric XPremium Mid Drive ebike as far as what you think of that brand and model motor
curious as well
Me too. Just placed my order a week ago and sales are already through the roof. Wait time is about 2 months. As far as the brand goes, I had their XP 2.0. This is a solid company with the best customer service in the US.
Man you really go fast, I mean sometimes you were at 15 meters/ second, bravo but I hope you have some protection kit, keep up the good work... and the higher speed !
You already know how I feel about high powered mid drives when you revealed my bike. Good luck on your build!! ❤️🔥
Do you feel that Class-3 ebikes can't ride on Class-1 infrastructure legally? Why ride an ebike if you really want an electric motorcycle?
Where I live, I want to take a MT bike past "gates", they allow bikes or even E-bikes, but, NOT motor cycles. And a e-dirt. Ike would likely still be a No-No.
So I want the power of a motor cycle in the body of a Mt bike. (I don't even want fat boy tires).
This is just me, I am sure others want the modularity of a mt. Bike.but, the performance of a motor cycle. BUT, I am speculation at this point.
Priority Current CVT with mid drive motor from Wu Xi Ltd. Sweet sweet nectar!
I went with option 3 a little over a year ago, I purchased 1000W Bafang BBSHD ($675), a 52V Battery ($475) an a Like New/Used Diamondback mountain bike ($200). I really have nothing to compare it with, as this is my first ebike but I couldnt be happier. Im 225lb and the bike will go 36+mph and it gets there pretty fast. I haven't personally crossed paths with any bike that has more performance. It literally took me 45min to do the conversion and maybe that long doing wire management/ organization. The only maintenance I have needed is brake pads!LOL IMO folks are wasting thousands of dollars and getting less performance when buying store bought mid-drives.
hey Bobby. I would like to hear more about your build. looking to build my first. Thanks
@@michaelgmyers do you have a bike already?
That sounds really cool!
Bobby, I would like to build one also. Going to go to the bike store to see if they can help me out with the modification. And got to find a maintain bike first.
@@jerrysr6680 Its really not hard to do yourself. I share what I know if you want to attempt on your own.
Super Easy Install & Usage
I was surprise to find that the route you biked took you past my fathers place. I know the area well and I walk my dog by the lake area all the time. Is there a shop that can convert mountain bikes near there you know of, or only places that sell new e-bikes.
One thing to consider is: The Rockstar is 80lbs with over 20Ah battery, but no place for an addition one and is only one size. So that makes it in to another class. The over 80lbs, with over 20Ah battery, and with only 1 size class. Don't you think? The only other ebikes that fit kind of into that category are the Fat Tire ebikes that have additional battery capacity. like the: EUNORAU 48V1000W SPECTER S Dual Battery. You can get it with the 27.5 boost for extra. Or the HIMIWAY COBRA PRO, But the thing is that if you want big battery and power, you will get the better value on a fat tire ebike. So comparing a Rockstar to other Boost 27.5 bikes isn't quite right.
In conclusion, a 26X4" wide tire or even the 4.8" tire is only a minor issue and not a category or class to compare really. I do like the 27.5X3 but a 26X4 is pretty close in diameter and at high pressure would have almost the same street riding resistance. The 4.8 is overboard but still the same principle applies. Neither is going to hinder you when you have a 1000watt motor.
i dont off road, i ride on the road & need SPEED so that's why I would take a hub over a mid any day
Shout out to the guy filming in NJ! I knew thing looked familiar then you passed bell labs and confirmed it
I know a good brand that makes relatively cheap and good quality bikes named "cube" and for Emtb a good bike for the money is the "reaction hybrid one 500"
Loved it do you have any recommendations for frames?
Thanks for the video! Liked and sub'd. Question... Will a hub-drive work with a mid-drive on the same bike with dual throttles? Another thought, Is it possible to use a CVT on a mid-drive ebike? Chains are loud and they break. Transmissions are mechanical, heavy and expensive. CVT's are lightweight, cheap, quiet and seem like the perfect solution...?
Yes, you CAN even put 3 motors on a bike.... (a lot cheaper too). Plenty of videos of guys do custom bikes... but, I am thinking of a 3 motor bike.... (I live in REAL STEEP mountains and need a bike so far nothing commercial is guanteeed to do what I want).
@@jackdundon2261 , Wow, I never thought about putting a mid drive on a rear hub motor, that'd be wild! I have a new CVT I bought to make a balloon tire river bike and wondered if an electric motor could run it...
I have the Frey Ex Pro and it's phenomenal.. I live in the Philippines and Frey sells them here locally so I got mine the next day after ordering and bypassed the ordeal of having to wait for months.. Compared to the Rockstar and Luna, I personally think that the Frey Ex Pro is the best of the 3, if you compare the specs of all the bikes side by side with their corresponding prices, it's pretty clear that you get more for your $$$ on the Frey..
I sounds like you just use your ebike on the road judging form the bike you got. I prefer more off road riding so the Luna X2 with 2000 watts is my bike of choice and it blows anything Fry is build on price and value.
Like your content! Keep it up
Hey man, I could not let go the fact that you have compared cruising hipster thingies with proper Enduro and All mountain e MTB's. "It's like saying NHL is nice and all, but your local kids league is hockey too!" it's not all about the voltage, I can tell you that for sure...
the 25 mph limit for e-bikes is stupid, since a lot of non electric bikes can go faster than that down hill.
I have an ebike capable of going over 25 but I rarely do it because of the drain it puts on the battery. At the second highest pedal assist level I often get smoked
by riders on non electric racing bikes. My only advantage is I can go faster for short stretches and uphill, but over long distance the racing bikes will win every time.
Also Bikonit, Bolton, Eunarau, Himiway, Biktrix, QuietKat, and many more all either began at the Frey or Leili factory.
I think the reason so many of these manufacturers are using the 48-volt batteries is because they're trying to keep the speed down.
For example this picture s is a mid-drive 48-volt and it uses a bafang 650 motor. This is a torque-sensing motor and we've seen it before and we know that it can take up to 60 V.
So the option I believe remains open to use a 15 S battery and just not quite fully charge it and it will stay under 60 V.
I have a bbshd bafang motor in that trick works just fine on it
There's no such thing as a "torque sensing motor". Motors have no brains. They're just wires and magnets fed by any motor controller you hook up. You can change out motor controllers just like batteries.
What is YOUR bike and equipment set up? Thanx!
eRanger Canadian. M620 Torque Sensing Mid Drive
Full Suspension 27.5er Mountain Bike. And they have a M600 with 17ah.
Realy Amazing.!.
when i bought my frey ht1000 they asked me if i wanted a 48 or 52 volt battery. i opted for 52v and they didnt even charge anything extra. also, i would like to add that frey is not sketchy at all, a good company and the bikes are awesome. but it does take a long time to get one.
How is your range on the tank?
@@LarryRichelli range is excellent. i get like 50 miles per charge. i pedal a good amount though. i use sport mode 2/3 most of the time and throttle on stop lights and hills. if i used throttle only range would probably be 20 miles. on eco mode it would go over 100 miles i bet.
Yea, they are great. I had the same bike but took 48 had to leave it behind in China cause the shipping company literally wanted to charge me more than i paid for it. That thing in full sport mode can get scary lol.
I used eco a lot.
Easy ride 75 km an had loads of battery left as I recall, even while taking a half hour off road being a jackass and eating it once pretty good.
The old Chinese man looking at me and shaking his head to his grandson proved I shamed my family.
@@BagerGman you had to leave your bike behind? damn that sucks man
@@Leevan3
Yea, originally I think I paid like 14,000 rmb or so back in 2019 for it.
When I moved back to japan the shipping company backed it up with the rest of my stuff saying it would only be a couple hundred bucks to ship. A few months went by where they couldn’t ship it due to covid lockdowns in Shanghai. Then they told me the shipping would pretty much be the price I paid for the bike…
How does the Dost Kope CVT compare with the mid drive bike?
I'm looking to make a first time purchase.
yay!! i really love those cyc motors, super powerful lil toys though kind of noisy however i woulndt mind the noise if my e mtb can handle 45 degree slopes, looking forward for the videos
cyc content coming soon!
I was told the new batch of motors are quieter. we will put this to the test.
@@NPLVentures I'm anticipating your CYC content. I'm currently waiting on a shipment of the latest X1 Stealth motors from Hong Kong to convert my MTB. Are you considering the Box eBike components?
So, how much money does a mid drive motor cost nad what would be a good mountain bike to mount it on?
My Haibike xdurirx29r has gone 6000 miles plus with only a battery upgrade from stock replaced $1050 with tax, $750 + tax for original battery... Lost 80 pounds, 20 to go.😁
These bikes are evolving so fast we will have to give them a new name. How about motorcycle?
It’s definitely not that. Ever ridden a motorcycle? Different beast altogether.
Hahaha
I went with the Philodo H8 with two 1000 watt hub drive motors.
I am beginning to see cities and towns ban electric bikes from 'bike trails' because they are MOTOR driven and the signage clearly states NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES. So I would be cautious in buying one with the intent of riding on 'bike' trails in the near future.
That is why I went with a peddle assist no throttle. If you don’t peddle it does not go.
No problem on bike trails and National Parks
@@rncondie "no motorized vehicles" signs mean no pedal assist either.
I have a X2, it's the best price and performance in ebikes.
Rookie time, what about the Blast Greaser?
After years of research, I am thinking this is what I will get: A 2022 Motobecane HAL eBoost M600, $3699.00:
Over 5 INCH Travel Full Suspension 27.5Plus / eBoost Mountain Electric bikes
Up to 45KPH/28MPH, no carbon fiber to crack.
Advanced Integrated Battery, SRAM EAGLE, 1X12 / Electric MidDrive
27.5PLUS Full Suspension Electric Mountain eBikes
with SRAM Hydraulic Disc Brakes, Rockshox LockOut 140mm Forks - I will get a bigger battery later.
LOL. that is not what I bought. I got the Rockshox Luna X2 with ludicrous as an after thought. It arrives tomorrow. Yeah! I will make some videos of unpacking and setting it up.
Sweet! Lucky dog
@@keithstewart7514 I really like it.
@@andreasL4114 true that!
Can anyone explain to a lay person why it makes sense to pay the extra $1k-$2k for these bikes versus say the rad power or other American made hub motor (not the cheap Chinese stuff) bikes?
I feel like you get a 750 watt motor with 25 mile an hour speed and good range ... what's better about the mid drive and why is it worth the extra money? Or is it other components?
Having added weight centered between the wheels and way low handles substantially better than having tail weight additionally or like my friend who also has an Haibike Yamaha mid drive, he added a2000 watt hub drive to the front. He did so cuz a was dusting him before. He now rolls @34 mph with nothing more to do than use his thumb.
I wonder why Stromer continues to use hub drive motors, especially considered a Stromer bike could cost upwards of $10,000?
Pretty Amazing.!.
Any thoughts on the Nireeka Prime?
Initial response: Got this bike for my friend. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxUiL0GnyDjP32RJdd660sP8mZk4CRLTCJ Delivery was fast. And the friend was surprised I would order it when she had never suggested she wanted anything but the pedal bike she had. She has now ridden the bike two times and gives it a 10 and says it is very fun. We have some hills in our town that are very challenging to climb on a typical bike. But tonight she went up with the pedal assist and loved it. I was way behind on my standard bike, huffing and puffing. Now she is no longer lagging behind me. This thing is powerful enough that a person could go around town without any pedaling. She likes to get some exercise so on flat ground she hits the red button to turn off pedal assist and only uses the twist throttle when she's in a tough spot. The bike looks good. It is really a very nice bike for the friend. Now for me, when I get an electric bike, I'm twice her size and will be looking for a bigger watt motor and battery. But this one is just wonderful for my friend. I am happy with this purchase.
You need to update the options you left for us… because they are currently unavailable
voltage is important but remember ohms law… more amps can make up for less voltage
But that's actually a benefit because with higher voltage, you use less amps for the same power saving the battery amps.
How can I build a budget bike that can take me to work and still be fast enough to not annoy traffic ?
Cool like content, want to build hub drive for my recumbent.
How is a mid drive any better or reliable than the hub motor if the mid drive is turning your chain is it possible to have premature wear on the chain or break your chain?
6000 miles on my mid drive Bosch, no end in sight. Hub drives all wear out before a good mid drive!
4000 miles on my cassette! I ride extreme off road & a hub drive couldn't do it for myself or any hardcore trail enthusiast, sorry!
It is not churning your chain. It senses the pressure you apply on the pedal and runs the motor to reduce the pressure.
@@pinoyrunningpenguin Pedal assist is lame I turned mine off on my ebikeling system. I have it throttle only and i can adjust the power with the buttons. Its kind of senseless and defeats the purpose of the bike to have peddle assist IMO. I think it's dangerous I fell off my bike from it. I have a 1500w Motor though and 52v battery. That's cool tho my motor is a hub motor.
Now the Lectric XPremium ⚡️🚲 has just been announced! $1,800 🤤
Why dont you look at the Rize RX Mid Drive series i think there pretty similar too frey but 52v and a little cheaper, with better customer service!
Do we want a mountain bike frame for a high power motor? Like, the weight of battery and motor would require a suspension? I'm wondering why there are no high power commuter bikes.
Mid drives are viewed as high performance and agile making them a great fit for mountain bikes. Kinda a waste to put a do it all motor on a rigid road bike
I wonder when Bafang will make a 1500-2000watt nominal motor that can accept 72V.
I wish Bafang would just make an upgraded controller. It can handle the power. 😁
Any opinion about Biktrix?
have to do more research, but they seem great and expensive
Mid drive is the only thing the big three are using or really any actual bike brand is using hub motors are mostly on the cheeper bikes or the ones trying to be mopeds
For good reasons, correct!
My brother-in-law ordered the rockstar back in november and has yet to receive it. He is going to cancel the order if they don’t respond to his emails by April.
if they aren't responding to his emails in less than 7 days you should be trying to get a refund now.
Sorry to hear that, I thought they were a reputable company. They may have supply chain shortages
@@phillyd2018 it’s a little nuts considering it’s listed as in stock for us and Canada only. We are in us
@@NPLVentures i just want him to get it because he is giving me his old bike (addmotor m80). 😂
@@NPLVentures just an update, he received the rockstar yesterday. Not sure why they won’t respond to his emails but he got the bike two weeks after they were back in stock. 👍
I have both, mid-drive and hub motor. I prefer the hub motor. Never thought I'd be saying that. I was thoroughly convinced that mid-drive was better until I got my second ebike which has a hub motor. As you shift up the gears on a mid-drive the motor revs drop and with it the power. OK, you can just leave it in a low gear but then it is useless to pedal. I hate that. No such thing happens with a hub motor, gear selection doesn't matter. Also, shifting is trickier on a mid-drive and you have to shift more. Shifting with a hub motor is no different than on an un-ebike.
may i ask what model you have for both? thanks
@@bobbymaldini7653 Bafang BBSHD 1500w mid drive, Bafang 750w hub drive. Don't let the 750w nominal rating fool you, it's every bit as powerful as the 1500w mid drive.
I agree. Hub all the way.
@@Cryptorocker2000 Cheers Roger!
I think you have it wrong. The big guys are not what you say. The big boys are Trek and Specialized. And for mid drive motors go's to Bosch and Shimano. Bafang make after market mid motors for people who want to convert their bikes to electric.
When it comes to bike conversions you have 300 to 1500 watt motors. But tell mew why companies like Trek, Specialized etc. Use 250 watt motors and 418 wh battery?
its so odd to me how different the market is here in europe/germany, here if your bike doesn't have a mid drive you cheaped out and the most sold mid drive is Bosh plus all motors are "250W nominal power usage"
A stock mid sized Luna X2 would work. But they have been having issues with ludicrous integration.
Where did you hear this. I got one of the first X2 bikes with 2000 watts and love it. They did email me saying the they were having a small problem with the battery shutting down. Mine did this maybe 2 times a week but just shutting off the bike and restarting it fixed it for that outing. I got an email from Luna explaining this and that they would be sending me a new, upgraded battery and it just came last week. The don't even want the old battery back so this is like having two batteries. You have to give it to Luna.....I just put carbon wheels on mine so it is just under 50lbs.
@@LarryRichelli That is what I meant. The battery has to work good for ludicrous. Anyway, mine better be shipped soon! It was supposed to be in stock when I ordered the RockShox X2 non-ludicrous two weeks ago. Otherwise I would have got the Z1.
@@beachbarlouie When I bought mine it came within the first week.I would not want this bike without ludicrous but that is just from my experience with it.
Not many mid motor brands? Come look at the Netherlands, we have the highest number of ebikes per capita in the world, almost no rear hub motors, only the older bikes have front hub, 9 out of 10 bikes sold now have mid motors. On flat surface their torque based assist offers by far the best riding experience. Limited to 28kmh ok but that's a reasonably safe speed anyway for most people.
You also have much better infrastructure for bikes(and cars for that matter). As an American, I wish we would start modeling our roads after yours.
What Neth. brands do you recommend? 1000W or better.
Grin Tech is partnering with manufacturers in the Netherlands to make advanced hub drive designs for cargo bikes for businesses
Frey has a 60 volt Beast 1800 watt with huge battery. I know because I have one:)
Hey I was wondering if I were to install a rear conversion kit on my bike would there be a certain type of bike I would need or would it work with a single speed, 7 speed, 21 speed, ect??
If you mean a rear hub motor kit then any of those will work. In fact you won't even need pedals unless you want to pedal with the motor.
@@JoshuasTejas So I have a single speed beach cruiser bike will that work with a rear conversion kit?
@@stevenmiller9198 yeah that should work. The things you'll need to be sure about is whether the wheel with hub will fit into the frame and how the torque arm will be mounted. They're usually universal but universal isn't always a perfect for not always safe.
How about the Vector Vortex?
I love the idea of mid drive , but the hub drives out there are out og this world effecint !! lower maintenance , more powerful now ! check out UU motors if Google will allow you ! 8000watt scooter moters dont lie !!
I want to see an ebike with an old school moped setup. That way you could put a big chonky boi motor and vroom all day
Why do you add that inflection (you know what I'm referring to) to the words you end a sentence with? Post10 does the same thing. Here it is at 4:16. Instead of "frame"...you say "frame-uh".
That a nice bike
Here in Europe we dont have a gashandle on ebikes, not legal. also max speed here is 15.5 miles.
This is Beta versus VHS all over again. Beta was actually the better system but VHS won by offering more prerecorded content and more manufacturers making the machines . Beta only had Sony.
Lectric XPremium has announced a mid drive motor that is way better priced then these bikes in the video.
The Xpremiums were announced after they made this video. It is definitely a game changer as far as mid-drive motors are concerned.
Vvolt Proxima?
1k in 10 days? Real nice!
I had a bbs02 and from my experience i reach +200kms on a single charge and a 38% gradient top speed just 48-49kph thats what our law says so i need to set it on that speed i can make it to 60 if i want but no it will eat my battery so fast the thing is its not the motor is all how you setup the bike my bike isa a diy not a manufactured one way more cheaper but way more power efficient
Bafang Ultra. No contest
And Bafang M400.
I got a bakcol it a 1500w eng
Man 28mph. I’m jealous in Australia your limited to 25KMH (15mph)
Check out biktrix juggernaut xd it's a monster at 2000 watts and mid drive. It's a great time to get into ebikes.
It's manufactured in Saskatoon saskatchewan Canada 🇨🇦 😎
I have a Juggernaut Ultra. Biktrix are not made in Canada they are chinese just like the Frey. Great bikes though love my Ultra.
I'mma make this really simple!
I want a mountain bike thay can haul a man and gear total weight probably 300 lb. Up the side of Pikes Peak what E-mountain bike can do that??? (Now let's do that on a gravel road). I don't want a E Dirt Bike. I want to stick with a a Mt bike. Like to avoid fat tires too.
TORQUE rating is the best way to measure the strength of a motor!!
You forgot the Cube bike with Boch motor
Lectric XPremium has hub motor at great price
what is the top speed of your ebike?
41mph
The CAB ebikes are the ones that beats all the others..the Eagle and Recon just blow doors on all others
Those don't have mid drive motors.
@@blakeberlin6295 duh, Of course I know this but wait until you get passed on one of them, then you will know what they are. Both of them are faster than any modded Sur Ron/Segway
@@LarryRichelli But speed isn't the topic here. I have motorcycles that I can ride much faster than your cab. But motorcycles also aren't the topic.
@@blakeberlin6295 I didn't mean passing you on the street. I ment passing you off road. The CAB Eagle and Recon are monsters and you can buy a faster off road bike than the Recon
@@LarryRichelli One of my motorcycles is a dirt bike, so I would still leave you behind. I don't care how or where you're riding or what you like.
The topic here is MID drive ebikes. It isn't even the possible speeds of mid drives.
If I ask you who the 1st president of the US was, I think you'd answer by telling me to get a cab ebike.
Biktrix mid drive 52 volt is a great bike. Not sure how you missed this.
Run the mid with the hub🏁
Check out riese & müller... they are awesome
I disagree about the mid drive being more centered weight distribution. because of where power is being made. the power is still being put to the ground at the same point that a hub motor would which is at the back wheel so power out put the same means weight transfer is going to be the same
Ride a center drive & then disagree.... I own a center drive & rode many with a heavy, hard to articulate hub drive. A true game changer for off road agility! The difference is huge in handling.... seriously
Experience both to re-validate your opinion plz?
I have experienced both. Assume much
Of course, when you've owned both you'll be very aware of why center drive is much betr
you gotta switch between the gears on the mid drive to take full advantage of it. not worth it for me. i don't want to worry about having to change gears
It takes a a unknowing mid drive guy to say something like this.....Having gears is a bonus, it is a feature and something that a lot of us want. We can dial our bikes just how we want it.
@@LarryRichelli okay fanboy keep worrying about gears while I chill with 2kw
Check out #notawheel chair.
You forgot regen maybe that was on purpose
Oh no. You fell for the Rockstar BS. If the 9 months waiting period doesn't drive you crazy, your not normal! Monte Capro Ultra is $6000.00 to your house in a week. After all is said and done, I wonder if the components on it make up the price difference?