At Grandmaster and above, Hulk is the hero with the second highest win rate in the game after Magik (on console for reference, PC Hulk is #1). That can't be solely attributed to his team-up, as he has almost twice the pick rate of Iron Man. His ass does NOT need a buff. As for Punisher, he's probably cc immune while ulting because he dies to a fart. Hulk has triple his HP, so the cc is much less likely to kill him with a competent healer.
Im trash at this game and play it super casually so i have very little to contribute to the discussion. But for some reason tank feels so much more fun to play than any other role for me. Especially Thor. Damn that dude is fun. Support is getting ganked simulator. DPS is spamming skills simulator. Tanks feel like actually fighting people.
Tanks are much more brawly, than point at heads ann LMB gameplay, though i'll reccomend any of the mele DPS, especially Wolverine and newly added Mr. Fantastic if you happen to enjoy tank gameplay. most mele dps are (just like tanks) built much more around their abilities, than their weapon, which leads to more complexity and overall more satysfying gameplay expierience to us, who come from more complex games like GW2.
Nah, it's fine. Tanks ruin games. I say this as Peni main. There have been games where I stood in one corner and held off a team for 3 minutes and they couldnt contest the capture objective. I can't imagine how much of a nightmare it would be if I could run around the enemy team for 15s uninterrupted and they couldnt do anything about it because they either run away or shoot me. But if they shoot me, they die to my minefield. Hulk doesn't need buffs. He is perfectly playable. Just nerf shitheads like Hawkeye who completely invalidate any point of a defense.
Honestly, I just wish Monster Hulk could still use gamma shield. Especially if there is a Peni with cc every 4 seconds staring you down. On that note, I don't think Peni should get cc immunity during ult. She's already fast AF, free shield, and is still regenerating faster then the wolverine, all while laying down massive amounts of nope carpet from the objective to wherever the enemy team is. Frankly, if you just yolo in as Peni without backup, and get shot by a Hulk, Mantis, or god forbid another Peni, your folly should be your undoing. Likewise, it should not be a get out of jail free card if you're 1 v 6 when the rest of your team is dead. At most, I'd be willing to compromise making her cc immune only when she has her shield health up. If you can rip though that, and land cc, she deserves to die.
I like the idea of Strange ult being interruptible because he is a spellcaster. A lot of ults can be shielded except Punisher ult. Cannot be CC'd; cannot be Shielded. Same for his turret. Cannot be CC'd; cannot be shielded.
My opinion is no one should be CC immune, even on ults. Flavor wise I would like to see some tanks like hulk to be cc immune in the ult, but I would love Juggernaut (when he comes) to be completly CC immune (when running).
No one will like this hot take but i feel scarlet should have cc resistance in ult (not immunity). Its already one of the hardest ults to get off without dying because its channel is super long and you shout to the high heavens. Nothing makes it feel worse then when its about to go off and pp just webs you out of it, or soldier grabs you, or now mr fantasic grabs you. It just feels like you never want to ult with her unless you have a strange to block everything that will come at you lol.
I can understand why punisher is cc immune during ultimate from design perspective, he is far away and is relatively squishy so he doesn't get something amazing from it yet still because of it you need to be wary of his ult. I think luna should be immune only for like the first 2 or 3 second of her ultimate because it heals so much if you don't have a oneshot you can not break through it. I also belive magneto should be cc immune during ultimate. I also would like to point out that dmg dealers should be stronger than tanks and healers because if all roles would be balanced games would not end.
@@captaincrapface7337 Yeah but a total damage dealt needs to exceed healing or the game won't move. Plus dealing damage requires more aim than healing. Also if the roles are to close to each other than you as a player are forced to play as optimaly as possible what causes less player agency and turns game into which team makes more mistakes instead of trying to push players into playing better
@@iszigo50 " if the roles are to close to each other than you as a player are forced to play as optimaly as possible what causes less player agency and turns game into which team makes more mistakes instead of trying to push players into playing better" - that's Owerwatch right now. In Rivals tanks there's a character that 2-3 shots all tanks!!! and other DPS aren't too far behind btw. Most Tank vs DPS fights will be win by the DPS, even if someone with the aim as bad as mine is playing them.
@@captaincrapface7337 I do belive that does that can 3shot tanks are unbalanced and should be nerfed but I also belive that tank+healer should win vs 1dps and lose vs 2
5:38 if that's how you play hulk then i'm not surprised you find him less fun or weak you could spam them with your right click high damage piercing clab while charging your jump to catch up to them but instead you are just waddling towards them effectively doing nothing other then feeding their ultimate be letting them shoot you you can charge hulk's jump while doing literally anything he is very mobile yet you get outrun so of course you feel like he is weak his shield is also pretty useful as you can block entire ults like jeffs ult by putting bubbles on your team there are a lot of ults that hulk can block if you have it on yourself you won't get marked by winter soldier's ult either so he can't reset on you or allies not to mention the bubble gives you CC immunity so there is your reason to use it while ulting (to tell when you have it look at your HP, if it has a gold outline you are CC immune) this entire video makes me feel like you haven't really grasped what each tank can do peni for example can also block ult's like magneto or iron man by catching the projectile with her right click, which is a spammable stun i agree thor needed cc immunity int his ult and he did recieve it in the latest patch
I want you to go to where specifically in the video i called any of the tanks, let alone hulk specifically "weak" or "underpowered" or anything thet would specifically reference power level, and not user expierience. In fact middle half of this video is me singing the praise to the devs, and ending is as much about Punisher/Luna/Mantis not deserving to be CC immune, as much as either of the tanks is.
@@captaincrapface7337 4:55 you talk about how not having a barrier similar to magneto or strange is pain, soon after you go on about how "ulting with hulk is comparible to testing nutcracker with yours" and not once mentioning that you can become cc immune while in hulk ult later on you talk about how punisher is less deserving of cc immunity, completely disregarding that he has one of the easiest ults to shut down as he does not get any sort of health increase and he still has to mannually aim his ult (aside from the rockets which aren't the main source of the damage) you bring up stability from gw which again hulk kinda has with the shield, on demand cc immunity for a time or until the shield is shot down your wording and argument make it sound like you find tanks very weak compared to dps because they can do stuff like oneshotting other squishy dps in close range with a shotgun even in the clip at 6:40 that i guess supposed to show us how much more busted punisher's ult is and how it can easily shut down hulk's ult the enemy hulk not once did he use the clap ability which would have probably made it so the punisher does to him one clap in ult does almost half of punisher's HP and that is only because punisher has 275 health and it's still on a 1 sec cooldown so 2 claps and an auto will slap him back to spawn you are showing bad examples to prove your point or leaving out details that maybe you didn't even know about
@@eranoszrill8907 "pain, soon after you go on about how "ulting with hulk is comparible to testing nutcracker with yours" - describes expierience not hero power. "not once mentioning that you can become cc immune while in hulk ult" - because you can't. - unless you mean either of the cutscenes which all take away your player agency for the duration - locking you into the animation. punisher is less deserving of cc immunity, completely disregarding that he has one of the easiest ults to shut down as he does not get any sort of health increase. - it might come as a shock to you but there are characters in this game commonly reffered to as "strategists" which can provide numerous benefitial effects like healing, shiealds or damage bost to their allies, and Vanguards which can put up a shieald, to block projectiles or otherwise stop enemies from targetting you. And noone will recieve support faster and in higher quantity that a DPS in the process of wipeing entire enemy team. "he still has to mannually aim his ult" - oh, suddenly your original argument about skill issue which didn't apply to Hulk, justifies the 800 dps hitscan death ray being uncounterable by the same stuff which stops hulk and cancels his leap charge. Either skill argument applies to everyone, or to noone - pick one. "hulk kinda has with the shield," - yeah, the only ability which he cannot use in his ult. "you are showing bad examples to prove your point or leaving out details that maybe you didn't even know about" - I was trying to mke it obvious enough that I'm focusing on expierience and enjoyment aspect, not balance issues. Game can be balanced and unfun, or unbalanced and fun. Like OW is more balanced than Rivals but much less enjoyable to play. If roles like tanks stop being fun, you'll get 5dps teams ewerywhere, even in ranked, especialy with DPS like Mr Fantastic coming out. Is that your dream goal?
@@captaincrapface7337 i agree with you that games can be balanced and unfun or unbalanced and fun but at the same time when the unfun comes from inexperience or not reading abilities (this time i don't mean you, just in general) then you have to take it with a grain of salt for example i see a lot of people complain that rocket has no damage and needs buff while in reality he has more DPS than punisher at his effective range this is why i keep circling back to inexperience and fair is fair, i was wrong, hulk can't be cc immune with the shield in ult and saying that strategists can just pocket the punisher and it negates all his weaknesses during that ult is silly other ults are way safer and more relyable to use, and since all he gets is the CC immunity for survival during that it is easy to counter with another ult, break line of sight or just outright kill him he is way less mobile during that ult and a hawkeye arrow will still one shot him inexperience can wark perspective, people said that woverine is weak when the game came out now he is one of the top heroes in the game because people learned how to actually play him
@@eranoszrill8907 I'm not saying that pocketing punisher negates all he's weaknesses, but it does alleviate them. Similairyly in my eyes much more tanks could be CC immune in their Ults (like they just did to Thor) withaout impacting the game too much. - after all best hulk players will keep playing the same way they do currently as to avoid taking unnecesairy damage, and it is often the case that Luna/Mantis are banned in higher rank lobbies. Part of Hulk's strength is him enabling Irpon MAn teamup, and the fact that CC heroes in high lobbies are often banned. (As far as i know Luna is in top 5 most banned heroes, and guess what, that's one CC less, Meanwhile PP is played the less the further up you go so here's another CC off the table). Uness I'm grosely mistaken - which i checked multiple timesweither I am or not, the positive impact of making Tank Ults CC immmune on tank player expierence would be much higher than negative impact on player power. And as you alluded to, they could just make Hulk get his shield after popping Ult to alleviate his vulnerability to CC withaout making him fully CC immune. -which could be a deacent compromise.
Are you insane? Hulk is insanely strong and has one of the most useful ults in the game. He gains like 2000 health immediately, resets his cooldowns, makes him immune for 3 seconds while he swaps and gains access to a piercing projectile on a 1 second cooldown. Hulk is fine. He’s just not playable in low ranks, which is fine.
@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 I think I'm being misunderstood here. I'm not making argument on basis of balance, but player expierience. - even if all the Tanks were nerfed somewhere to compensate for having certain extent of CC countermeasures, they would feel better to play. A weak/difficult character that feels good to play is better than strong character, with CBT tier of player expierience. And all i want is for tanking expierience to be as far from CBT as feasabley possible. But I'm not of opinion that I'm smarter than guys who made the game from scratch, so I'll just repeat my last line from previous comment "I'll leave balance decisions to the actuall developers."
@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 "makes him immune for 3 seconds while he swaps" it's 3 seconds doing NOTHING, so while you can render useless some ults, you also lose 3 precious seconds of gameplay. His shield is the weakest among vanguards (250hp now) and his range is garbage. His damage is ok. The aspects he is good are his mobility and his team up, without his team up he would compete for the worst tank in the game.
![Finally A Hero Shooter That Understands Melee |Design Praise [Marvel Rivals]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uTAgD3vwWPU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Finally A Hero Shooter That Understands Melee |Design Praise [Marvel Rivals]](/img/tr.png)
At Grandmaster and above, Hulk is the hero with the second highest win rate in the game after Magik (on console for reference, PC Hulk is #1). That can't be solely attributed to his team-up, as he has almost twice the pick rate of Iron Man. His ass does NOT need a buff.
As for Punisher, he's probably cc immune while ulting because he dies to a fart. Hulk has triple his HP, so the cc is much less likely to kill him with a competent healer.
It's funny that you made this vid considering Thor just got buffed to have immunity during his ultimate (thank god)
Cant wait for Juggernaut to come. Hulk Juggernaut team up is like all of my childhood comic dreams coming true
honestly his whole kit could be about resisting cc cus hes unstoppable xd
agree tho, Jug would fit this game great i think.
@icepl831that would be cool, but that’s already going to be The Things passive
Also would love to see Colossus
They should add The Wall ASAP.
That would be so fucking funny
I could listen to you all day
Good point about the vanguards not being cc immune during their ults. Thor in next patch will receive it so maybe your video reached somebody!
no it didn't XD. - it went out just day before the patch, so thease changes couldn't have been the result of some moron on YT.
Im trash at this game and play it super casually so i have very little to contribute to the discussion.
But for some reason tank feels so much more fun to play than any other role for me. Especially Thor. Damn that dude is fun.
Support is getting ganked simulator. DPS is spamming skills simulator. Tanks feel like actually fighting people.
Tanks are much more brawly, than point at heads ann LMB gameplay, though i'll reccomend any of the mele DPS, especially Wolverine and newly added Mr. Fantastic if you happen to enjoy tank gameplay.
most mele dps are (just like tanks) built much more around their abilities, than their weapon, which leads to more complexity and overall more satysfying gameplay expierience to us, who come from more complex games like GW2.
@captaincrapface7337 Cool thanks dude, I haven't tried either of those guys so I'll try them next time I'm on
Hulk Smash should be the anti-anti-CC skill in the game, at the cost of ending the ult instantly
you mean it shoul'd be castable while CC'd?
I'm almost positive it already is.
@@captaincrapface7337 I mean it goes through CC protection
Nah, it's fine. Tanks ruin games. I say this as Peni main. There have been games where I stood in one corner and held off a team for 3 minutes and they couldnt contest the capture objective.
I can't imagine how much of a nightmare it would be if I could run around the enemy team for 15s uninterrupted and they couldnt do anything about it because they either run away or shoot me. But if they shoot me, they die to my minefield.
Hulk doesn't need buffs. He is perfectly playable. Just nerf shitheads like Hawkeye who completely invalidate any point of a defense.
Honestly, I just wish Monster Hulk could still use gamma shield. Especially if there is a Peni with cc every 4 seconds staring you down.
On that note, I don't think Peni should get cc immunity during ult. She's already fast AF, free shield, and is still regenerating faster then the wolverine, all while laying down massive amounts of nope carpet from the objective to wherever the enemy team is. Frankly, if you just yolo in as Peni without backup, and get shot by a Hulk, Mantis, or god forbid another Peni, your folly should be your undoing. Likewise, it should not be a get out of jail free card if you're 1 v 6 when the rest of your team is dead.
At most, I'd be willing to compromise making her cc immune only when she has her shield health up. If you can rip though that, and land cc, she deserves to die.
Fuuuuck that, lol. His stun being on a 5s cooldown and the constant knockbacks are annoying enough
Masterful writing
I like the idea of Strange ult being interruptible because he is a spellcaster. A lot of ults can be shielded except Punisher ult. Cannot be CC'd; cannot be Shielded. Same for his turret. Cannot be CC'd; cannot be shielded.
Well I meant, it's a massive AoE stun with short casting time.
My opinion is no one should be CC immune, even on ults.
Flavor wise I would like to see some tanks like hulk to be cc immune in the ult, but I would love Juggernaut (when he comes) to be completly CC immune (when running).
No one will like this hot take but i feel scarlet should have cc resistance in ult (not immunity). Its already one of the hardest ults to get off without dying because its channel is super long and you shout to the high heavens. Nothing makes it feel worse then when its about to go off and pp just webs you out of it, or soldier grabs you, or now mr fantasic grabs you. It just feels like you never want to ult with her unless you have a strange to block everything that will come at you lol.
I can understand why punisher is cc immune during ultimate from design perspective, he is far away and is relatively squishy so he doesn't get something amazing from it yet still because of it you need to be wary of his ult. I think luna should be immune only for like the first 2 or 3 second of her ultimate because it heals so much if you don't have a oneshot you can not break through it. I also belive magneto should be cc immune during ultimate. I also would like to point out that dmg dealers should be stronger than tanks and healers because if all roles would be balanced games would not end.
I'll remind you that tanks and healers also can do damage.
@@captaincrapface7337 Yeah but a total damage dealt needs to exceed healing or the game won't move. Plus dealing damage requires more aim than healing. Also if the roles are to close to each other than you as a player are forced to play as optimaly as possible what causes less player agency and turns game into which team makes more mistakes instead of trying to push players into playing better
@@iszigo50 " if the roles are to close to each other than you as a player are forced to play as optimaly as possible what causes less player agency and turns game into which team makes more mistakes instead of trying to push players into playing better" - that's Owerwatch right now.
In Rivals tanks there's a character that 2-3 shots all tanks!!! and other DPS aren't too far behind btw.
Most Tank vs DPS fights will be win by the DPS, even if someone with the aim as bad as mine is playing them.
@@captaincrapface7337 I do belive that does that can 3shot tanks are unbalanced and should be nerfed but I also belive that tank+healer should win vs 1dps and lose vs 2
5:38
if that's how you play hulk then i'm not surprised you find him less fun or weak
you could spam them with your right click high damage piercing clab
while charging your jump to catch up to them
but instead you are just waddling towards them effectively doing nothing other then feeding their ultimate be letting them shoot you
you can charge hulk's jump while doing literally anything
he is very mobile yet you get outrun so of course you feel like he is weak
his shield is also pretty useful as you can block entire ults like jeffs ult by putting bubbles on your team
there are a lot of ults that hulk can block
if you have it on yourself you won't get marked by winter soldier's ult either so he can't reset on you or allies
not to mention the bubble gives you CC immunity so there is your reason to use it while ulting (to tell when you have it look at your HP, if it has a gold outline you are CC immune)
this entire video makes me feel like you haven't really grasped what each tank can do
peni for example can also block ult's like magneto or iron man by catching the projectile with her right click, which is a spammable stun
i agree thor needed cc immunity int his ult and he did recieve it in the latest patch
I want you to go to where specifically in the video i called any of the tanks, let alone hulk specifically "weak" or "underpowered" or anything thet would specifically reference power level, and not user expierience.
In fact middle half of this video is me singing the praise to the devs, and ending is as much about Punisher/Luna/Mantis not deserving to be CC immune, as much as either of the tanks is.
@@captaincrapface7337 4:55 you talk about how not having a barrier similar to magneto or strange is pain, soon after you go on about how "ulting with hulk is comparible to testing nutcracker with yours" and not once mentioning that you can become cc immune while in hulk ult
later on you talk about how punisher is less deserving of cc immunity, completely disregarding that he has one of the easiest ults to shut down as he does not get any sort of health increase and he still has to mannually aim his ult (aside from the rockets which aren't the main source of the damage)
you bring up stability from gw which again hulk kinda has with the shield, on demand cc immunity for a time or until the shield is shot down
your wording and argument make it sound like you find tanks very weak compared to dps because they can do stuff like oneshotting other squishy dps in close range with a shotgun
even in the clip at 6:40 that i guess supposed to show us how much more busted punisher's ult is and how it can easily shut down hulk's ult
the enemy hulk not once did he use the clap ability which would have probably made it so the punisher does to him
one clap in ult does almost half of punisher's HP and that is only because punisher has 275 health
and it's still on a 1 sec cooldown so 2 claps and an auto will slap him back to spawn
you are showing bad examples to prove your point or leaving out details that maybe you didn't even know about
@@eranoszrill8907
"pain, soon after you go on about how "ulting with hulk is comparible to testing nutcracker with yours" - describes expierience not hero power.
"not once mentioning that you can become cc immune while in hulk ult" - because you can't. - unless you mean either of the cutscenes which all take away your player agency for the duration - locking you into the animation.
punisher is less deserving of cc immunity, completely disregarding that he has one of the easiest ults to shut down as he does not get any sort of health increase. - it might come as a shock to you but there are characters in this game commonly reffered to as "strategists" which can provide numerous benefitial effects like healing, shiealds or damage bost to their allies, and Vanguards which can put up a shieald, to block projectiles or otherwise stop enemies from targetting you.
And noone will recieve support faster and in higher quantity that a DPS in the process of wipeing entire enemy team.
"he still has to mannually aim his ult" - oh, suddenly your original argument about skill issue which didn't apply to Hulk, justifies the 800 dps hitscan death ray being uncounterable by the same stuff which stops hulk and cancels his leap charge.
Either skill argument applies to everyone, or to noone - pick one.
"hulk kinda has with the shield," - yeah, the only ability which he cannot use in his ult.
"you are showing bad examples to prove your point or leaving out details that maybe you didn't even know about" - I was trying to mke it obvious enough that I'm focusing on expierience and enjoyment aspect, not balance issues.
Game can be balanced and unfun, or unbalanced and fun.
Like OW is more balanced than Rivals but much less enjoyable to play.
If roles like tanks stop being fun, you'll get 5dps teams ewerywhere, even in ranked, especialy with DPS like Mr Fantastic coming out.
Is that your dream goal?
@@captaincrapface7337 i agree with you that games can be balanced and unfun or unbalanced and fun
but at the same time when the unfun comes from inexperience or not reading abilities (this time i don't mean you, just in general)
then you have to take it with a grain of salt
for example i see a lot of people complain that rocket has no damage and needs buff
while in reality he has more DPS than punisher at his effective range
this is why i keep circling back to inexperience
and fair is fair, i was wrong, hulk can't be cc immune with the shield in ult
and saying that strategists can just pocket the punisher and it negates all his weaknesses during that ult is silly
other ults are way safer and more relyable to use, and since all he gets is the CC immunity for survival during that
it is easy to counter with another ult, break line of sight or just outright kill him
he is way less mobile during that ult and a hawkeye arrow will still one shot him
inexperience can wark perspective, people said that woverine is weak when the game came out now he is one of the top heroes in the game because people learned how to actually play him
@@eranoszrill8907 I'm not saying that pocketing punisher negates all he's weaknesses, but it does alleviate them.
Similairyly in my eyes much more tanks could be CC immune in their Ults (like they just did to Thor) withaout impacting the game too much. - after all best hulk players will keep playing the same way they do currently as to avoid taking unnecesairy damage, and it is often the case that Luna/Mantis are banned in higher rank lobbies.
Part of Hulk's strength is him enabling Irpon MAn teamup, and the fact that CC heroes in high lobbies are often banned. (As far as i know Luna is in top 5 most banned heroes, and guess what, that's one CC less, Meanwhile PP is played the less the further up you go so here's another CC off the table).
Uness I'm grosely mistaken - which i checked multiple timesweither I am or not, the positive impact of making Tank Ults CC immmune on tank player expierence would be much higher than negative impact on player power.
And as you alluded to, they could just make Hulk get his shield after popping Ult to alleviate his vulnerability to CC withaout making him fully CC immune. -which could be a deacent compromise.
Hulk needed a little more than this why couldn’t he get a buff to his ultimate damage
Are you insane? Hulk is insanely strong and has one of the most useful ults in the game. He gains like 2000 health immediately, resets his cooldowns, makes him immune for 3 seconds while he swaps and gains access to a piercing projectile on a 1 second cooldown. Hulk is fine. He’s just not playable in low ranks, which is fine.
@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 low ranks are like 80-90% of playerbase, so...
I'll leave balance decisions to the actuall developers.
@@captaincrapface7337 is that why the devs nerfed him? Because he’s not very strong?
@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 I think I'm being misunderstood here.
I'm not making argument on basis of balance, but player expierience. - even if all the Tanks were nerfed somewhere to compensate for having certain extent of CC countermeasures, they would feel better to play.
A weak/difficult character that feels good to play is better than strong character, with CBT tier of player expierience.
And all i want is for tanking expierience to be as far from CBT as feasabley possible.
But I'm not of opinion that I'm smarter than guys who made the game from scratch, so I'll just repeat my last line from previous comment "I'll leave balance decisions to the actuall developers."
@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 "makes him immune for 3 seconds while he swaps" it's 3 seconds doing NOTHING, so while you can render useless some ults, you also lose 3 precious seconds of gameplay.
His shield is the weakest among vanguards (250hp now) and his range is garbage. His damage is ok. The aspects he is good are his mobility and his team up, without his team up he would compete for the worst tank in the game.