Was the Expanded Universe George Lucas' Vision for Star Wars?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- What was George Lucas' involvement with the Expanded Universe? Did he have a direct hand in it, and does it represent what his ideas for the story of Star Wars were? Today we're going to dive into the complicated history.
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According to Dave Wolverton, George Lucas read the Courtship of Princess Leia. That's why Lucas like the Dathomir Witches by the way.
Also, he loved the WEG RPG Guides, that's why he said to Timothy Zahn to use it as a fondation for his novels.
And that's kind of my problem with George, he say everything and it's contrary. I will complete this comment later, I have to work but there is a lot of stuff there.
I just want to add: The EU isn't Lucas vision but say that he hates it (as some say) is mostly wrong...
He loves the eu and sees it as canon,just not his canon. It's an alternate universe(s) from his own. He likes it,but some things contridicts his vision like vong not being effected by the force
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 Well they actually were affected by the Force... it was just something that damaged their connection to it.
the great thing about EU was that in managed to iterate somewhat to remedy past errors and show them in different interpretation which became canon.
Thats essentialy it. Lucas did not mind the story, it was just that if he was to do it he would go other way.
For example he prefered Tom Veich´s Dark empire story to the Heir of the Empire... sadly (and nothing against Tom Veiches story) its just bit too much supervillain/hero comics to build universe on. Tim Zahns Heir to the Empire was simple far superior... the book allowed much more nuance to worldbuild.
but in order to pull this off one needs someone who will oversee the consistency, and mostly authors who actually respect that someone has written story before them, and someone will write story after them.
(that was the whole mess with Karen Traviss in the old days... she did not write badly... she simply went out of her way to reinterpret things completly regardless of her collegues...)
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 in fact... They are but I won't spoil
@@AragornGhost15 I know I read all 19 novels, but the tldr version is they aren't effected by it.
Helmred Are we sure LUCAS read the RPG guides? I know Lucasfilm (as in the company) gave the guides to Zahn as a reference, but I’ve never heard that Lucas personally gave them to him.
George reading the comics rather than the novels makes a lot of sense to me since George was always a more visual and overall full picture kind of guy rather than focus on all the nitty gritty details. So he'd be fine with the comics since they're purely visual while he wouldn't give much of a care for the novels since they're just texts, which definitely explains his inclusion of Aayla Secura in AOTC
What does ayla secura has to do with anything?
George may have not considered the EU as his personal vision and there are things he would've done differently. But that doesn't change the fact that he acknowledged the EU as apart of the official Star Wars history. He loved many aspects of the EU and disliked many aspects of it as well, which is a sentiment we as fans of Star Wars have as well. There are things we dislike and there are things we like. That doesn't change the fact that we acknowledge it as apart of the official continuity and the official Star Wars history. George even acknowledged he tried to keep everything consistent, and in some cases he succeeded and some he didn't succeed in, which is irrelevant. George's stuff was always the objective canon that couldn't be removed from canon unless he did so himself, and the EU was always bound by what was seen in the films, much like a dog is bound to their owner's leash. That doesn't expel the EU from being apart of the Star Wars canon (before Disney) and having a place in the story. This was the hierarchy system. You had G-canon, which is the films and then C-canon, which is everything else and that is completely bound by what was seen in G-canon. That's why every single "contradiction" the prequels made with the EU was eventually retconned and brought back into the canon, like Boba Fett's backstory. That's how it worked. There simply is no concrete evidence that the EU was in an alternate universe that is completely separate from the films. Lucasfilm reiterated time and again that the EU was apart of the same universe as the films. The EU was nearly the same when it comes to canonicity as the films, the difference being it had the ability to be removed from canon of George's work contradicted it. But, that former C-canon material (like the Boba Fett/Jaster Mereel backstory) had the ability to be reintroduced into the canon if there is a retcon that changed that C-canon slightly to eliminate the contradiction that formally existed. George was a very inconsistent man when it comes to a lot of different things anyway. This quote is an example:
“After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga.”-George Lucas introduction to the 1994 reprint of splinter of the Mind’s Eye
This quote from George seems to suggest a much more positive connotation when it comes to his relationship with the EU, unlike the Starlog quote used in the video. So when so many people use George as an argument to prove the EU was never canon, they seem to cherry-pick certain quotes and completely ignore other quotes he or his company said as well. But what we do know as an objective fact is that Lucasfilm continuity editors and authors considered the EU to be the official history of the Star Wars universe:
“Basically, everything except those items marked with an “Infinity” logo (i.e. the Star Wars Tales comics) is considered canon.”-Sue Rostoni, Lucas Books and Lucas Licensing Managing Editor, Starwars.com May 30, 2003
“According to Lucas Licensing Editor Sue, Rostoni, ‘Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas’s Star Wars saga of films and screenplays.’ Things that Lucas Licensing does not consider official parts of the continuous Star Wars history show an Infinities logo or are contained in Star Wars Tales. Everything else is considered canon.”-Sue Rostoni, Lucas Books and Lucas Licensing Managing Editor, in Star Wars gamer #6, July 1, 2001
Thank you for being honest and not trying to get an agenda through, like many do, by cherry picking vague quotes. This whole bizarre argument made by some people is just a self-admitted cope for perceived inadequacies that certain people feel in the non-"Legends" timeline...
IMHO, despite his work for Lucasfilm, I can't consider Pablo Hidalgo to be a reliable source for this kind of content for a few years now. I know the Twitter can be messy place, but his treatment of Legends fans there got pretty awful and has taken a turn downwards from the time before 2014 in very much the same way Lucasfilm employees and some media outlets later attacked fans who criticised TLJ.
Exactly. He's a complete mercenary, with no loyalty or consistency.
That's kind of the problem with using Lucas as a 'Word of God' since he's actively changed his own 'vision' of what he had planned, came up with and changed mentally over the last few decades just in regards to his films alone.
Just look at how the production of the OT went.
Things where changing during the production of the first film itself.
@@falloutghoul1 yes, Anakin and Vader were two different people in ANH, this was retconned in ESB and then retroactively justified in RotJ. Likewise, Luke and Leia were not originally supposed to be siblings, the Emperor was supposed to be a puppet in ANH, then a corrupt politician in ESB, but got changed into the personification of evil incarnate and a Force user. Similarly Lucas didn't plan prequels initially, nor even really thought out sequels for ANH. But now, he will say that he always planned this.
You can say that all you want but for a vision that is fluid and "actively changing" the vision somehow rhymes perfectly and is VERY consistent across the films. Keep in mind, I use my words carefully. His vision is perfect. His vision being the overall story, themes, and laws of the universe. Of course George didn't create the entire plot of the 6 films when he first made Star Wars so that's why we'll find plot holes. BUT the vision and story is always consistent. George says it best, at its core it's about the inner battle between good and evil. That's a theme I've personally noticed since I was a kid.
@@AImighty_Loaf
Except it doesn't rhyme perfectly and you can point to many inconsistencies and flaws in storytelling that further prove that Lucas did not have it planned.
Like Leia knowing about Padme despite Padme dying mere minutes after childbirth, or how old Vader is supposed to be between movies, or that Han doesn't know about Jedi despite Jedi being a very omni-present force in the galaxy when he was just a kid if you go by the timelines of the movies; he was alive when the Jedi fallen yet he never believed in them?
@@randyrhoades8751 omg bro I already explained myself in that comment. Reread it. Those are literally plot holes that are irrelevant to George's VISION AND THEME for Star Wars.
"One of the things that i found out when researching this video, is that starwars is actually entirely fictional"
You sir have one heck of a sense of humor. xD
Well, obviously it's not Lucas' vision. That doesn't mean the EU wasn't canon, because it was stated multiple times by Lucasfilm employees to be just that. It's why the Holocron keeper and Star Wars EU guidebooks existed in the first place. In "Star Wars: Insider" the Expanded Universe was constantly used as a source. Canon isn't created by one person, Star Wars stopped being Lucas' full property when the EU was created.
I found it so strange that Star Wars Fans today are so fixated on the idea of citing George Lucas vision as the reason they love Star Wars or Legends. When if you go back in time, for over ten years George Lucas was quite possibly the most despised and reviled figure in the fandom.
This was not a vocal minority, it was so widespread that they made an actual documentary “The People Vs. George Lucas” that chronicles the utterly broken relationship George has with fans had for years.
But now it’s like this never happened and it honestly feels like people are trying to create a false narrative or world where Star Wars was this golden perfect franchise that was only ruined when Disney showed up.
Which I just find so disingenuous.
THIS!!!!
some of us always loved it before disney showed up though
I hold Lucas in contempt now because he sold out. I have and always been an EU fan. It was good Star Wars and for long stretches of time it was the only Star Wars.
I don't care what Lucas vision was. I want to see The REAL Ben Skywalker and Vestara finish their relationship.
The franchise has been on a downward spiral since 1980.
It was a vocal minirity, simply si strong that it influenced cukture itself. Most of the audience didn't hate the prequels, many prefered the OG's but still a casual fan had positive feelings ro ROTS at the very least.
Some people do question LF's involvement in publishing and official licensing and some how come to the conclusion that despite the NEU and Legends both being licensed and published the same that Legends was fanfic while the NEU is canon.
I think the old version was a better idea, where we had level 1 movie canon, then books, then comics, then games, then other things.
Looking at some of the new novels, they already contradict the books (e.g. Episode 8 having Rey and Poe meet, where in 7's novelisation they had already met.
"No. Thanks for tuning in to Corey's Datapad. Sorry for the shorter video today."
Some folks hate on the EU and Lucas himself has been kinda wishy washy on it at times but I was one of those who read just about everything EU. It had its issues no doubt but there was at least a decent attempt at continuity which I appreciated. I wish they'd adept the KOTOR games but whatever I'm still glad I got all those stories to read throughout the decades. New stuff just doesn't have the same hook and it just feels disrespectful to all the characters I grew to love.
I agree!
Only thing to add is that George MAY have been reading the first couple of novels because a lot of those authors received letters from Lucas congratulating them on their books.
But to add to that, all of the authors I spoke to cannot be sure that meant George had read it or not, it may have been him just being nice.
I love Legends and feel it was more "in line" with Lucas' vision but like you said, George made it explicitly clear that his vision was only the 6 movies he made.
Good video.
Hey Matt! That is very true!
What I wanna add however, is that the only reason why the EU had to be "decanonised" (or rather why the new canon had to be created) in order to make the sequel trilogy, regardless if George or Disney had made it, was simply that it wasn't designed for a sequel trilogy at all.
Yes, George would have contradicted the EU with his 7-9, he would have scrapped Mara, Jacen, Ben and Jaina, he would've brought Maul and Talon as villans etc, but we must remember that he was never really enthusiastic about continuing the saga at all. He considered it finished, everybody did, the movies were about the Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker and the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire. This arch was done, the rest of the universe was entrusted to other writers, hence the EU was allowed to, well, expand the Universe in all directions, without any major limitations. Future Star Wars movies and shows were expected but Lucas himself stated in 2005 that those were going to be spin-offs, like the ones Disney actually made in the new canon (Rogue 1, Solo etc). He only started thinking about 7-9 in the last year or 2 of his Lcasfilm ownership just out of financial reasons. And, well the best proof that was the only reason was the Disney buyout.
The tragedy of the EU was that nobody (and especially not george) forsaw that the Skywalker saga would actually be continued through movies. Otherwise there would be no canon change whatsoever just like there wasn't when the prequels were comming out. They were all prepared for those and hadn't covered what the prequels were to tell.
But none of this changes the simple fact that the EU was canon. It wasn't George's vision, parts of it may have been but overall it wasn't, George personally considered it a parallel universe. I have some major problems with Legends, I love it but I do have them. We all have things we like or dislike in it, George, creator or not, is no different. But it was canon, as Leyland Chee said "There [was] one overall continuity". And I still have hopes the old canon will be continued some day, even if in a limited form.
Plus, the clone wars 2008, or parts of it. He originally wasn't going to be involved in any way, but after hearing more about it, he showed up for regular meetings with Dave Filoni. He helped create the character of Ahsoka, and seeing as he'll be writing a few episodes of the ahsoka show with Filoni in the driver's seat, I still think there's a lot more of George's vision we'll see.
@@emzonik8851the EU was not canon. George even said so. Why is this such a hard concept for you EU fans to understand
@@darthnater9731
There is not a single quote where he says so.
He said that it's not his story (a director and a writer says that a story he didn't make is not his, shocking, I know) and that it's a different universe (he said the same about TCW though, but that's very clearly canon) and that he doesn't read it, but never that it's not canon.
It's a very easy concept, it may seem difficult for you, because you are misinformed
@@darthnater9731 This is a simplified misconception that new canon fans, or just people who don't like the eu, use. George never even used the word "canon", not once.
Just wanna say thank you for bringing that Mara Jade sketch to light, she'll always be one of my favorite characters from the post-Endor EU, but that was hilarious
Someone make that drake meme with George Lucas’s face instead with Mara Jade on the top panel and Darth Talon on the bottom panel
Anti Disney people say the eu was George's canon,pro Disney people say he's anti eu. The truth is however that he LOVED the eu,and helped make it and everything had to be approved by him,HOWEVER he considered it a seperate canon from his own. The eu was canon (technically 3. T/C/S Canons) but they were seperate from his own. They're like James bond. Multible canons. All official but the original one is the creators canon.
Meh, Lucas viewed it as a seperate universe and that makes sense. EU expanded and made the saga better to be honest. Disney had the same opportunity as EU but they blew it.
It's interesting, why set rules and prohibitions if none of it mattered in the bigger picture? If it doesn't count, why were writers forced to follow these rules set by George
George loved the eu and helped with it,he just considered it not canon to HIS UNVIERSE but they were still canon,seperate canons. Like James bond n dbz have
He may not have considered the EU as his universe but especially when he made those rules in 88 it’s still his baby and he probably wouldn’t want his characters to be murdered in some book, or fans to be confused about the prequel era.
Cause George owned the Star Wars IP so the writers had to follow what he said...
@@KitchenSinkSoup If only that were still true.
Lucas only cared about a few E.U. details like how Mara Jade & Luke worked out & Revan. He also lay down a few rules like u cant kill off the "big 3". The rest he really didn't care about.
Iv read a fair few interviews where George said he didn’t hated Mara jade he didn’t like the idea of Luke getting married and having kids
@@xjadit7826 Yeah, Lucas went back and forth on Jedi celibacy, marriage and other rules (he noticed after making the prequels how cult-like he had made them). He did sign off on the decision though to marry Luke to Mara, so it had his blessing officially at least, however he seems to change his mind every few minutes.
Half true. He had many rules like don't revive Vader. He loved the eu but considered a separate universe. All canon,but not canon to his canon. He puts shadows of the empire stuff in the special editions for example
@@kingkusnacht the Jedi being "cult like" is the point. They're space monks. They took it too far and it's part of why and how a JEDI order can fall in the first place. They're imperfect.
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 Yeah, but it makes them creepy weirdos like Scientologist or so who sit around in their Temple and avoid emotions.
I agree that its part of their downfall, it sadly also makes the downfall less tragic. Why should you care if a shitty organization falls?
So.. canon status doesn't really matter because all the stuff that Disney makes would have been non canon to him? A separate universe? In the end I suppose it only matters what is canon is who hold the license and who you are more willing to listen to. The Management Company or the Guy who started it, if the former the EU was then decanonized. However if it was the latter then it doesn't matter as nothing new being made follows the vision of George Lucas, heck its not even being made by him, George isn't here to sign off either (Not that sighing off made it canon to him either). The former is more important then. They don’t speak for Lucas, they speak for LucasFilm.
In that sense nothing Disney has produced is canon. And I'm fine that interpretation.
You just now discovered that Star Wars is fiction Corey? That's a hot take right there! Lol. I would like to point out that George had to at least be aware of things that Timothy Zahn had done prior to those comics coming out. He included Coruscant in both the Prequel Trilogy and at the end of Return of the Jedi for the Special Edition and he was working on both of those concurrently before the October 1st, 1995 release date for Heir to the Empire #1. So even if he hadn't read the novel version of Heir to the Empire, he was still aware of certain elements of it prior to reading the comic book version.
Thanks, I was in the camp of thinking Legends was SW fact, it makes sense that much of it has come from other minds, Lucas wasn't a Tolkien, and others wrote about his world too. I imagine thats one reason he wouldnt read the novels as it might influence the story he wanted to tell. I guess we all see the Galaxy we know based on what we've seen/read, regardless of the Authors intention to a certain extent
15:44
No... No! That's not true! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
Obi Wan never told you?
Interesting Video! I feel like you give a very reasonable perspective on this whole debate
One thing I would be interested in is how far does Legends go into the future? Like what is the last event taking place in legends if you go as far as you can and in what media does that appear? And on that matter what is the earliest event to ever be shown or talked about in the galaxy far far away?
To kind of answer your question:
The latest event: The Legacy Comics (Cade Skywalker, Darth Krayt, Roan Fel etc) 139 ABY
The earliest event: The establishment of the Republic and the Jedi Order on Tython 25'000 BBY
Although some even earlier and later events are hinted a bit, they are so vague that I wouldn't count them and there are on actual written stories beyond those periods. Still a huge time period.
The earliest *story* is the Dawn of the Jedi comicbook series, set in 25,793 BBY-25,792 BBY. And while the in-universe history of the galaxy goes back way before that, its events are mostly told in sourcebooks, not in stories of their own.
The latest is the 2013 sequel and relaunch of the Legacy comics, set in 138 ABY-140 ABY
Earliest event is arrival of Tho Yor, in Dawn of the Jedi comicbook (there are mentions about earlier events, but they are mentioned in future stories, not actually "depicted").
Latest event is the death of Darth Wredd and formation of Galactic Triumvirate in Legacy comicbooks
An obscure EU novel called "Supernatural Encounters" that pushes the earliest dates in Legends back tens of thousands of years. And in the case of some entities in the novel, millions to billions of years; time is basically irrelevant to them.
Great video, just have a few thoughts on it. Jaxxon was never wisecracking. Lucas is quite inconsistent man when it comes to his ideas for Star Wars. As a writer, I can understand some of his thought process but the fact is he approved the characters as part of the then growing EU. If he didn't like the character, why approve it? Its his world, why let a character be featured if he didn't like it? Makes no sense, unless you consider the fact that he was constantly changing his mind on everything. he may have set "guidelines", which i totally understand, but long before the 90's novels, the original comics had Clone Wars information, later retcon of course but he did approved of them. In regards that Lucas read the Thrawn Trilogy or at least the comics i highly unlikely, even though he does like comics. I say this because the Prequels clearly show Lucas did not do his homework regarding the lore, he just ignored all that was established, even the OT when he wrote those films. That is one of the may reasons they failed to be accepted seriously. Why continue approving stories he would later ignore? Didn't he figure out that fans would want to follow the continuing adventures of the characters he created? Didn't he figure out that if for years fans would follow those adventures and he ended up making a new film ignoring established lore, even from the OT, that it wouldn't have any repercussions? He messed up with the prequels for the same reason he is inconsistent. Lucas approved the EU, for that he should've researched it to make the Prequels. The EU didn't create conflict with the Prequels, the mistakes were made in the Prequels by Lucas, because of his inconsistent ideas. Thank God far better writers took over and made the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, the only god thing to come out of the Prequels and even then he screwed up by approving a weak CG show based on events long finished and already accepted and beloved. I am sure he didnt read all the novels, comics and game plots, but he sure as hell approved them, he knew the direction they would take. I love the man, he created the OT after all but he screwed up and that makes me ignore his ideas, his interviews, whatever comes out of his mouth after TCW. As a fan of both Trek and Star Wars and their lore, I cannot accept his words in regards of comparing the two as having two different versions. From the very beginning Trek has had its own "expanded adventures" but the way Trek is, it makes sense. Star Wars is not Trek and thus, he cant even compare them in regards to mythology or general info in encyclopedias. He may have created the OT but he sure didn't create the Saga, that was all the work of the EU. He chose to ignore Star Wars had outgrown his original ideas. He didn't care and that is how he began his string of mistakes. Its his world, sure. But in that same token, he must accept his decisions had consequences. His ideas for the sequel trilogy are laughable, Basically saying he would've done the same as what Disney did? Yeah, right. Another of his inconsistencies. He just saw awesome art from the comics and wanted Talon as a villain in another of his many sequel versions. He may have said or felt he wasn't bound to the EU but the fact is the EU is Star Wars. And that Star Wars he chose to ignore is far superior to what he did, trying to ignore it. Now that i think of it, The Prequels remind me of the last season of Game of thrones. All established lore, character development and hints for characters endings were thrown out the door for a quick cash grab. Though the Prequels do have a few redeeming qualities, they end up being as badly written, directed and overall executed and he couldn't handle it, in the end selling his soul to the very Devil. Star Wars is fiction and i love it but fiction has rules. Star Wars had rules he approved to later ignore, thus it was to better writers to fix his mess, giving us years of awesome stories long after his screw ups hit the big screen. I just discovered this video and i was just writing a series of essays/historical reviews regarding the development of the early EU. Very interesting points. Once again, a very cool video.
TCW nor the pt are weak my friend.
Not being Lucas’s exact vision of course is not the same as saying it wasn’t canon.
Exactly. The point of this video makes no sense, tries to show that George was uninvolved and didn't care...by showing that George set several hard rules and was involved at several points...
Everyone already knows George did not write the novels or the video game stories, but he curated and approved them.
You summed this up very well with your comment. 🙂
This is a pointless question since George Lucas' vision changed every few days apparently. I mean just look at some of the constant changes in the special edition, e.g. the cantina scene, which changed with every re-release.
He was however somewhat involved with the major decisions as he agreed on decisions in some stories and intervened to halt some other stories (one famous example: Starkiller-Leia romance)
One of the funniest things (to me) is despite the EU having numerous different writers and creative teams, it's somehow more consistent than George's Singular vision at times, which is absurd to think about considering how large the scale of the EU is, it just almost all fits together like one huge, batshit crazy puzzle.
Meanwhile, George changes his mind on things and retcons things
Then Disney out did GL with the Retcons!
@@TheMrPeteChannel Fair point, their retcons are kinda hilarious.
@@an0rangutan Yes. If you read the novels & behind the scenes books. Snoke was being set up as the ultimate baddie. He was clearly going to be older the Palpatine then BOOM Retcon! He's a younger clone now. Also before Kylo Ren got a name he was known as the "Jedi Killer" clearly implying that he killed Luke's students then BOOM Retcon! He didn't kill them it just "seemed like he did".
Could you give an example of a retcon made by Lucas that create contradictions ?
Cause the EU sure as hell make no sense
@@rabbox4513 well the whole "do you remember your mother" thing with Leia.
of course it wasn't, but so its the current canon, neither were truly his vision, hut legends is the SUPERIOR canon in many aspects (galactic civil war era and jedi civil war era) but as for clone wars... its a mixed bag, 2008 tcw is amazing for characterization (bar most villains) but legends show clone troopers for what they were: insanely good soldiers that accomplished things quickly, whilst also suffering defeats because some forces were just that good or too advantaged over them.
this is pretty much pick your poison.
This was a big sore spot for me when the prequels came out. I've since got over it though. Still love the books, glad that more of the EU is coming into the main story.
I'm not so happy about it, since they do it badly.
I think in the end we as Starwars fans can make our own head cannon.
the EU will still always be more canon to me than disney star wars ever was
Ubetchu. That Damn Mouse can't veto the committee in mind.
One thing I'm really curious about is what would have happened if George Lucas had allowed EU writers to write about the Clone Wars before he made the prequels? Would it still have been clone vs droids, or would the clones be the bad guys? How would Timothy Zann have portrayed Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Palpatine? Would we still have Darth Maul, Count Dooku, General Grievous and Mace Windu?
Also: Jaxxon was brought back into canon but Mara Jade isn't? And Revan is still just a name? Seriously?
Judging by Corey’s other video based off of the small hints of the Prequels that exist, it was likely that the Clones would have been the bad guys; the Droids probably would have been different and more akin to the usual Gladiator Droids we see commonly in the EU, or some early proto-Dark Trooper stuff made by the Republic in an attempt to counter measure the Clone Masters who made the attacking force from the unknown regions.
Zahn probably would have portrayed Anakin as more heroic than what we see in the Prequels, Yoda as less of a Jedi fundamentalist and more Yoda as the true wise man, the Jedi as a whole probably would have been written to be more morally good but placed in bad political positions due to questionable usage in the Clone Wars, there would be much less than what we did see in the official Clone Wars media mostly because of the aura of mystery and lack of knowledge most people had of the Jedi based off of hints in The Original Trilogy, Luke not knowing about it as a whole; Han hearing of hushtones but rejecting it because of experiences, they probably would have been looked upon as sort of like Psychic Detectives are where their usage of the Force was more subtle and people would not see amazing feats of power and strength from the Force and stuff that would be written off as coincidence rather than full blown acceptance of what Jedi can naturally do.
Palpatine is more of a puzzle however, it should be noted Lucas probably didn’t intend on Palpatine gaining control of the senate like he did in the Prequels that concept was originally spoken by Lucas in the 80’s during Return of the Jedi’s writing stages to Kasdan as a joke, a lot of people reference that little discussion with Kasdan and how he intended for Palpatine to manipulate political stances to get his power but reading it you can clearly see it was meant to be in jest because he refers to Palpatine as Nixon numerous times throughout that discussion; clearly being tongue in cheek because Nixon was considered a prime political enemy of the people for many in Lucas’ age group. Zahn or anyone else in the typical Expanded Universe writing circle probably would have written something completely different, maybe The Republic was more of Republic Monarchy of sorts the whole time? Something not completely out of the realm of possibility since Lucas apparently had Leia be a Senator despite being also Alderannian royalty. Maybe Palpatine was always likely candidate for control and it was always about electing royal family members you liked best in most instances which made up the bulkwork of the Senate, who is to say? But this all seems the most likely to me based off of what was written of the Original Trilogy and of the Star Wars Extra Media that would be considered Canon up to that point, honestly this what if portrays a more interesting scenario for the Prequels to me.
As for Other characters like Maul, Dooku; Grievous and Mace Windu? I can only speculate on that, Windu has the most likely chances as a character like him was in the works largely since the beginning with earlier drafts of A New Hope having a main protagonist by the name of: “Jedi Master Windi” and it is clear that Windu as a character is based off of that general concept most likely since he too was a stoic wise fighter like Windu eventually was characterized. Characters like Maul, Dooku and Grievous could have been made as a silent badass Sith Lord like Maul as he was characterized in Phantom Menace does have a place in Star Wars, but of course; I think he would have been different with possibly a different alien design; maybe this Maul like character would have been of an alien species we seen in the Mos Eisley Cantina sequence for instance, basically similar character ideas but ultimately wildly different executions to make it feel more akin to what Classic OT feels like rather than what was eventually done in The Prequels.
As for Jaxxon being brought back, that was done largely to appeal to the Classic Marvel Star Wars fans (I being one of them) and to me, Jaxxon being back is nice but compared to Mara Jade, I would easily have preferred her. Revan sadly being just a name is really a problem of the High Republic stuff more than anything; my problem with bringing back old EU concepts to Current Disney Canon is that we just run the risk of: “Whats the point then?”
@@randyrhoades8751 Dooku and Grievous would both not exist, There was supposed to be leader of clonemasters called Atha Prime. He was supposed to be combination of both, perhaps politician, but also was meant to support his own troops in battle, or perhaps mirror version with Dooku being some puppet and this Grievous like Atha Prime being main boss but spend majority of his time on battlefield. Atha was not even supposed to be helping Sidious, just violent clone revolutionist that made him an emperor, but I personally like Lucas version, because in EU there is alien race hellbent on destruction of all droids, but clone wars could be longer, and present how clone troopers were replaced by normal humans
The EU should have gotten tv series adapting it either animated or otherwise (live action shows like the Mandolorian or game of thrones)
I have always been of the Opinion Star Wars should have gotten a Battlestar Galactica influenced series after the first movie. Would have been fun and exciting to see a lot of these ideas be used on screen in some capacity even if it was on a lower budget.
So good! Very well put together, love the approach and conversation as always
A longer Datapad video from time to time.. This Is The Way.. _And thank you Corey, more people need to know about Reality & great work as always.. 👍. _ _ Hope the move went well & is Pest free..
Lucas was more involved with the original clone wars shorts than TCW. And if he didn't consider the EU as a part of his vision, why did he include so many connections to the EU in the prequels?
Dude, he was hugely involved in the later show. He won and an Emmy for it, and, on the night he got the award he said, “I’VE had a lot of fun doing it.”
:th-cam.com/video/dTYc9kpg2kE/w-d-xo.html
@@beanbunny9315 Dude, watch the video. He even launched the damn project in the first place.
th-cam.com/video/XMLxmww6c2M/w-d-xo.html
@@beanbunny9315 you are right about season 7 though.
@@beanbunny9315 also this th-cam.com/video/Q1FF4mqp_No/w-d-xo.html
@@beanbunny9315 Also, the original commenter said the prequels connect to the EU, but they also contradict the EU as well. Attack of the clones doesn’t;t follow Zahns’ version of the clone wars. Plus it contradicts Boba Fetts original backstory .
"None of it happened" 😄
Thanks for reminding us Corey. Sometimes fans seem to lose track of that.
I wouldn't view it that way. Lucasfilm released it and thus its part of the story. If Lucas didn't like it, he should have stopped it (which he actually did with certain ideas, so saying that it doesn't count is wrong).
kingkusnacht it would be almost impossible for him to review every single project released under the Star Wars band
@@Tuskin38 Of course, you're right. But some books, and most comics, don't need approval since no grand events and developments happen. But Lucas and Lucasfilm did actively approve and intervene in storylines and ideas.
A famous example: Marek was supposed to have a romantic relationship with Princess Leia, which Lucas blocked.
This whole video basically applies to everything Lucas didn't create himself, hands-on. Meaning its also valid to say everything post 2012 isn't his vision either. My only gripe is when EU haters try to use Lucas' words as a weapon against its "validity" when that very same argument can apply to Disney Star Wars. Only 1-6 and TCW are his vision and that's the fact of the matter. Taking a few cues from his outlines, like Han and Leia's son being a Sith and Luke being in exile, DOES NOT make the sequels his vision. Just like Jacen turning dark and Luke being exiled from Coruscant doesn't make the EU his vision. It's infuriating for anyone to try to speak for the man himself.
The difference is Lucas was in charge during the time of the original EU and now he isn't so its not a contradiction to use his words against the old EU but not again the new movies and their EU.
@@MrRed88 Except he's said similar things about the ST. I don't hate the ST at all, but the fact is nothing outside of what Lucas has made himself is true "canon" if we equate canon with the word of God for a given story
@@BanesBasement did you not even read what I said? The difference is during the era of the old EU HE WAS IN CHARGE. NOW HE ISN'T. It's as simple as that
@@MrRed88 I read what you said, good fellow. But "ownership" is irrelevant to his status forever as the "creator" and thus his opinion is word of God. And he was far more involved in the New Jedi Order as the sequels to his story than he was with the ST we got. So, the EU follow-ups either have the same validity to the ST, or are MORE valid. Having money to absorb an IP doesn't give you automatic authority over canon (it does in an official sense, but not spiritual). If I win several lotteries tomorrow and buy the Harry Potter IP, then say the "it was all a dream" theory is canon, then it's still gonna be a BS claim, because that is not the original author's intent. You see what I mean?
@@BanesBasement no it isn't irrelevant and just because he was involved IN ONE OR TWO STORYLINES doesn't mean the whole EU which is full of contradictions and different versions of the same stories is canon. You forget that unlike other filmmakers who lose control once a studio decides to make sequels (or more sequels than they were intending) Lucas was in full control of what the franchise was and did and he said the EU was separate from the films but he forfeited control once he sold the rights. That's not irrelevant thsts how it works. That's how it's worked for any film series. Yeah it sucks but that doesn't change the fact that it's not an irrelevant point. He has no authority over what is canon anymore. What you an ever other EU fan needs to realize is there's a difference between office canon and your head canon. If the orginal EU was so canon than Lucas wouldn't have just blatantaly ignored when making the prequels in a way that is no different than Disney ignoring the EU when making the sequels
I don't think Disney Star Wars is canon at all because of the complete lack of George Lucas involvement. Its fair for you to consider it such, but I never have.
I say this not as a value judgement but merely in good humor and as tribute to this research and to fan interest in the topic (which I share):
Star Wars canon is serious business.
The fact that Lucas had any guidelines for the EU always made me feel that it was meant to be the legitimate canon.
Until it wasn't, of course
By the rat empire
@@Batou3nah, not really. There's li a entire post that has every interview of his view on EU
George Lucas never expected SW to take off and be part of pop culture. His acceptance or not of EU isn’t the end all. That said Disney ruined SW forever by alienating those that followed EU. All Disney is doing is creating shows about Disney SW instead of making good stories in the SW universe
Honestly some of the EU absolutely mogs the stuff George himself made
Jaxxon was actually Lucas' planned main character for his potential sequel trilogy. He would've went up against the dark lord Waru to stop him eating the entire Star Wars multiverse. It's true, from a certain point of view.
jaxxon could be a cool new Jar Jar
The EU began not only with the original novelization but with the original comic adaptation by Marvel. Every single scene, event and character not featured in the final film, all comprise what I call, Early EU, including Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Early EU of course grew even more, as the original comic run continued, along side the films themselves. As for Dark Empire, it was going to be released before Heir to the Empire and Marvel still had the rights for comic publication. Cool video but disagree with some points.
There's this other documentary that I've recently watched on star wars E.U. where the directors and writers of the force unleashed say that everything has to go through george lucas, and that he'd give them a list of characters the can and can not use in the E.U. or novels or games, and he'd pitch new ideas for new characters for the star wars stories, but now I get it, george was more involved in visual and graphical works on star wars like as you've pointed out such as comics and games and was less involved in novels...Now this makes sense.
Here's that video...th-cam.com/video/TxTGIY7n5TU/w-d-xo.html
It wasn't uncommon for people to think their approval through LFL was coming from Lucas himself, even when that wasn't the case.
Agreed!@@CoreysDatapad
100%
I don't care who's vision it was.
Rey is just a shallow character that automatically succeeds at everything without any trial and error whatsoever and a boring boy scout like Superman, that is also automatically liked by every other hero character.
well, I saw several ' mistakes' by Rey, most notable destroying the transport She thought Chewi was on, by accidental, uncontrolled use of the lightning force, which 'just happened' as a film display that She had more anger ( Palpatine angle) than Luke
@@rickc661 Which is supposed to be a high level Sith ability.
+ Yoda, Dookoo... ? - again, from the Rey angle, Palpatine influence. Which Rey had to fight along with Renn, ignored by the haters.@@WarlockGhorst
@@rickc661 Force lightning is not an inherited ability its learned. Its just poor writing, and its Dooku, who learned the ability from Palpatine. Not by doing it out of thin air, if that where possible than Anakin would have done it as well. 😎
Remember when there was at least some continuity? I thought Shelly Shapiro did good overall.
At least she tried. Now with That Damn Mouse, I have no idea what the hell is going on.
I think this brings about something of a conflict of ownership when the creator and owner of a franchise commissions other creatives to create stories and flesh out material, but then decides to retcon or ignore those same stories years later for something else. While Lucas is the owner and likely has the legal right to do this, it does showcase a moral compromise of character.
Ignoring the works of people one hired to make those works to begin with is nothing short of shaddy, especially when it made you a lot of money and created a community of loyal customers. Worse even is when the retconned new versions are objectively worse than what came before, which does make one wonder why did Lucas even bother hiring on these people, letting them expand his universe for him, if he's just going to trash it later?
I suppose this is why Eckhart and now Corey are arguing that the Lucas Metric of Worth is pointless. If he doesn't care, why should we?
Why does Lucas vision matter? No one cares what the vision of the guy who created Batman is, or Superman, or any character that existed for 40 years now. Yet Star Wars is the only series where people will argue over what's Lucas vision. His vision doesn't matter, it only matters when he's involved in the art being made.
Because all those other franchises had ton of reboots and stuff like this and SW was always one continuity until 2014 reboot, it's very hard to become soft continuity guy after 40 years of one universe, it's also the only thing that differentiated SW from others with constant reboots and remakes
@@goodmind4940 Exactly. That and the movies and even the shows continue to incorporate & continue maaany elements of previous work that George was involved in such as The Bad Batch being an entire sequel series to a show George used to work on called The Clone Wars, Mando show utilizing many GL elements, the Sequels themselves incorporating many Lucas elements and so on.
Fantastic video Corey, really interested to hear more about the meta topics from you, I think it was excellently put
bulletin - G.L. Sold S.W. , he probably didn't need the $$$ to pay his mortgage, so - tired of it ? doing other things, whatever. does Disney now own, lock stock and barrel the S.W. copywrites ?
I wouldn't view it as none of it ever counted. Yes, I'm sure Lucas, Abrams, Johnson etc have never read X-Wing: Wraith Squadron or Phasma, they still count just as much as every story. Lucas is a weird man who contradicts himself a lot and changes his opinions regularly. Still, all works count in their own way. Lucas wouldn't count the sequels, other don't count Legends, others don't count the new canon. It's all up to the reader what they acknowledge and what not.
The one underlying fact is, each film, book, comic and game that was ever released was officially and supportingly published by Lucasfilm.
Who said anything about none of it ever counting? Half the video was basically that it shouldn't matter who came up with any of it if you enjoy it. What I said at the end was that none of it ever *happened* . It was a joke about it being a *fictional series* , it had nothing to do with what is or isn't canon.
Corey's Datapad i was responding to some of the pessimism in the comments and general fanbase, not directly you.
That ending killed me, star wars is fake?????
imagine telling Christians Bible is fake
At the start of Star Wars it wasn’t even meant to be a triology, hence the unintentional incest 💀
I agree with most of the facts. (Except about Lucas hating Mara Jade... my understanding from what I remember Lucas himself saying, he just didn't like how the covers made her look like a supermodel, and how Like married her since when he said it he hated marriage as a concept because of his bitter divorce.) My issue is with part of the premise and some of the conclusions.
I think most defenders of the Old EU know it wasn't exactly Lucas's vision. We know that had he written that stuff himself, it would have been different. But because he often worked with the creators at the inception stage, his ideas were often the bedrock upon which they were created. Like the history of the Sith that he gave the Dark Horse Comics creators when they were making Tales of the Jedi. How Starkiller worked in TFU. The fates of Anakin's grandkids. Vader and Palpatine in Dark Empire. Grievous in the microseries. They contained elements and seeds of his vision, and that collaboration is why it ultimately, in my opinion, contains all the best Star Wars content outside the OT.
And in addition to that, Lucas's involvement is usually brought up in defense of its validity. Too many people brush anything off as not created by Lucas or Disney as having never mattered or never been Canon. (Sure, George Lucas wouldn't be bound by any of it, but he'd retcon TCW or even his own movies too.) So pointing out his involvement is more about fighting off those misconceptions than it is about saying it was purely his vision.
I wouldn't trust certain people too much, I'm afraid. George Lucas himself seems to change good mind frequently. And Pablo Hidalgo is a complete mercenary... as soon as Disney started writing his checks he started contradicting earlier statements of his.
It's especially annoying when talking to people who kiss Filoni's ass by talking about how he made TCW with Lucas. Which is true, but when you talk to them they seem to overstate how involved he was, like he was in the writer's room writing all the scripts. Or just because Lucas said something it's suddenly the better idea. *cough*Mandalorians*cough* Try to argue how Filoni's stuff is subpar (Rebels) or mostly mediocre (the rest), they hide behind Lucas to shield against criticism.
This sums it up...
Hey bro, long time no speak! haha. Sorry for not replying back in a long while, I've been busy myself and haven't been checking on my notifications lately either. They can sometimes be a trash fire when random a-holes jump in reply some annoying BS to me, so I try to avoid notifs in general. But now, I said screw it, I'm just gonna ignore the shit and focus on the stuff that matters and I also thought about finding our thread we were in previously! Couldn't find it anymore, I feel like the OP of our comment thread deleted that entire thread probably because he got too many notifs from the both of us replying to each other haha.
Now that you're the OP of THIS comment thread, everything'll go fine, I hope! ;)
Anyways, about your last paragraph. While I do understand where you're coming from with this, in my experience, I haven't really seen anyone who hides behind Lucas to shield criticism for Filoni, though I'm welcome to be corrected if possible.
But mainly, I just wanted to say that that's not exactly true. George was involved in every aspect of the show. Of course he wasn't writing every script, but he was in the writer's room, sat through every episode and gave the final say on all scripts leading up to the incompleted S6 and some of the unfinished arcs like the Bad Batch arc and the Crystal Crisis arc.
Brent Friedman, one of the writers, has confirmed this for us time and time again. It's a common misconception, but Mr. Lucas was indeed involved in every aspect of The Clone Wars as stated here: twitter.com/BFree63/status/167162114157445120?s=20
Oh and 1 more thing. One of your past replies in the old thread was about how, if I remember right, if I had read through all or most of the EU material, then I would basically be disgusted by what I'm seeing with the material in canon, including TCW. That somehow, it would make me feel like the entire TCW is mediocre and not worthy of being considered all time great Star Wars compared to the entire EU. As you can tell, I'm heavily paraphrasing here haha, but that's basically what you implied & stated in one of your old replies to me.
I would like to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with that viewpoint. It's a very shallow and narrow-minded viewpoint, in all honesty, no offense. Because to you and many others, the EU is a masterpiece, but to me and many others, TCW is a masterpiece. Watching and/or reading something that someone else perceives as "better" will not automatically make the newcomers feel it is so. If they still feel TCW is better as a result, awesome. If they instead OR also feel the EU is better, also awesome! Because you can still like, enjoy and find quality in all things. It's never just one or the other, my man.
There are HUGE EU fans that also love TCW like myself by the way. Some notable examples are Star Wars Theory, MGF Customs, EckhartsLadder, TheXPGamers, Marc Fernandez and so many others. MGF Customs just recently posted a vlog to this channel, MGFExtra that specifically mentioned EU material, like the old sith order/rule of two/darth bane and yet, he enjoys TCW a TON, collects so much TCW-related memorabilia, has grown up with it, customizes lego minifig tributes for it and is always hyped and interested for more TCW content. EckhartsLadder posted a review of the final episode and talked in detail of how and why he loved it. TheXPGamers grew up with the OT and loves that as well, not only the EU btw, so he enjoys Star Wars Rebels a ton, but he also enjoys TCW a lot too and always mentions it from time to time in his streams, most recently, his playthrough of Fall of the Republic Empire at War mod on his channel.
Star Wars Theory has posted countless canon lore videos in regards to TCW, he goes very in detail in them and truly enjoys it, and he's even wanted Clone Wars flashbacks to happen in the new Kenobi show that's coming out as well as more TCW flashbacks in The Mandalorian. He's also re-uploaded the #CloneWarsSaved trailer on his channel and further hyped us all up back when TCW was announced to have returned. Hell, he's even done a live stream watch party on the final episode of TCW that came out just a few months back. He also enjoyed that and talked to us for a while after the fact. And all the others have also posted countless TCW videos/reviews/streams/played mods that were related to TCW and so much more while genuinely liking TCW and not just doing it to make a living. The amount of stuff they post in regards to TCW and the way they go in detail with it all just doesn't seem like they're only doing it for the money, no way. And at the same time, they've all also posted and/or talked in detail about numerous EU material too. And not to mention, all the EU fans I know personally on twitter who also enjoy TCW a great deal.
Overall, there's just something magical and captivating about a full blown tv show/movie compared to just text and some illustrations on paper. Not saying the EU books are crap, quite the contrary, but nothing is perfect though. You have to understand that movies and tv shows have a way of truly captivating millions upon millions of people with their beautiful soundtracks, gorgeous visuals and compelling & chilling performances from their countless talented actors and actresses and have been doing just that for decades. ;)
@@Vandicoup Hey man, long time, no see! I think you're overstating my issues with TCW... like, your version of my argument is more or less correct in form, but you're making out to be way more harsh than it is. Hopefully that makes sense. And I'll return to it in a minute.
But before I go any further, I need to make my standard disclaimer. I really like TCW. I'm a fan. But just because I like something didn't mean I can't critique it. Also, I know I'm not the best critiquer, or even the best at arguing my points. I'm just trying to create a constructive dialogue.
So, at the end I think you touched on a really interesting point regarding human psychology. Though before I get into that, I do agree that strong visuals, music, and performances from voice actors make television a very powerful format. Some of my favorite media is television shows. I would disagree that it makes it the best, automatically, because games, comics, and especially books all have unique strengths of their own. Most of my favorite stories are books, with television the second-largest share of my favorites.
Anyway, back to my point about human psychology. I think the reason certain people love TCW so much more than other Star Wars media is because it's a TV show, especially one that aired on a major cable network. That is more to do with the format than the quality of the stories, worldbuilding, or the characters. It's part of what you said: accessibility. A TV show is easier for people to access than a story that requires reading (for reasons I don't understand, most people just don't like to read)... it takes less time and energy investment than to play a video game... often is easier to let a TV show come on than to put on a movie, even. Combine that with the Mere Exposure Effect (a *huge* factor), and that for a lot of its fans it's their first exposure and definition of Star Wars, it really skews the perspective. As someone who has watched the series three times, but only after the Old EU was decanonized, and after graduating college, my perspective is different.
So it makes it harder to discuss the actual merits and shortcomings of the show, because I don't want to insult those fans' investment. Those feelings are _absolutely_ valid, and I'd never want to belittle them. The feelings that stories make people feel are so, *so* important.
But, at the same time, people's enjoyment and passion for something aren't an argument for its quality. It's a logical fallacy referred to as "argentum ad populum." If you aren't familiar with the concept of logical fallacies, it's a fascinating topic.
I admit I'm not a fan of Star Wars Theory. At least, if I'm remembering his videos correctly, I was really turned off by his defenses of the Disney Canon. They were... not good. I don't have the guy, just not a fan.
I do contend that the Disney Canon is terrible. With rare exceptions, it's just lame or outright bad. Unless it's changed in the last couple months, when I just lost even morbid curiosity. Compared to the Old EU, the Disney Canon is offensive. At least, that's my take on it.
As for TCW specifically, it covers a range of quality. Its worst episodes and arcs are a C-, and its best episodes and arcs are a B+ (maybe there's an A- in there), in my estimation. So it covers that entire range. I think what hurts the series three most is the damage it does to pre-existing characters, character development, worldbuilding, mythology, events, stories, and so on.
To be fair, this is a universal standard of mine. If a new entry contradicts what came before it, that's a negative. (Unless, of course, it justifies the change is for the better and offers an explanation to justify it meshing with pre-established canon.)
One of the things that made the Old Star Wars Expanded Universe so good was how things worked together and built off of each other. Each work makes the other better. When things contradict each other, though, the opposite happens.
And I don't care who does it, whether it's Disney, Filoni, or even George Lucas himself. I mean, look at the response to The Last of Us 2, made by one of the original creators. They contradicted earlier characterization and events (in addition to other writing issues), and thus it's become as divisive as The Last Jedi.
Additionally, because of all the retcons, people that jump from TCW into the Old EU will have those same negative feelings towards the Old EU, because they only know TCW. And that upsets me, because those retcons and contradictions _are all TCW's fault._
Now, I'm sure you'll say that you don't care, and you'll still love TCW no matter what. Which is fair. I'm not trying to change how you feel about TCW, no matter how it may seem. I'm trying to have a conversation about what the best Star Wars stories are.
If we want to get into what had the best stories and the like, then we can't talk in general anymore. We'll have to go into details, comparing and contrasting specific elements.
Do you want to bring up some element of TCW, such as one of its stories or characters or whatnot? Then rather than talk generalities, we can start getting into the real nuts and bolts of this discussion.
@@AzureKnight2 Nah man, you like what you like and I like what I like. I guess I did go a little too hard on you yet again like before haha. It's just so hard to tell when it's just text on a screen, y'know? But I'll chill out here, moving forward hahaha.
Anyways, I agree with nearly all of your points. There are only 2 I wholeheartedly disagree with and that is Star Wars Theory and people not liking the EU because of TCW.
And to repeat what I said in the first sentence of this reply, it's all good man. You have your perception of the "best SW stories" and I have my own. We don't need to get into the nitty gritty because then it will again be essay response after essay response and will just go on and on. All that matters is what we enjoy and receive happiness from the most, not what is objectively the best. We are all going to die some day, better to have that last day be a good one than a miserable one. Even more so, for the rest of our lives to be happy instead of miserable and boring.
Alrighty, so the first of two counterarguments I have. Star Wars Theory:
Now, I'm not saying you have to be a fan of him and all that, again you like who you like, but I will just try to give you some perspective here in the hopes that you at least might have some respect for him.
So I have been following his journey since 2017, have been there for his official face and body reveal in 2018, seen his first ever fan film which was about SW of course and so much more. I have, most of all, sat through most of his live streams and have heard so many stories and learned a whole lot of things from the man. Both his personal life, how he struggled so much in all these odd jobs before finally having TH-cam as his big break, how he is always grateful for our support and always tries his best do what what we want him to do and he does. If enough fans ask something of him, he does it and he does it well.
Okay, for the core of the counterargument here, you're saying you don't like his stance on Disney Star Wars and that isn't entirely true here. Theory actually despises the Sequels a whole lot. He still enjoyed them, like I did, but overall, they aren't "real SW movies" as he's said in numerous streams such as the Rule of Two streams he's done with Mark Fernandez from Collider and the current on-going streams with Josh from Den of Nerds called Nerd Theory. The ST isn't real and never happened, in Theory's eyes. Hell, even in some of his most recent Nerd Theory podcasts on his channel, they still go on about the Sequels, criticizing it, debating about it and such. Josh actually likes the ST and Theory and him have very meaningful and eye-opening debates about it, he's a chill guy and welcomes all fans.
He defended the ST for the longest time because, as he's revealed to us in past streams, that he was in denial at first. He thought there was a plan for it all, he thought Lucasfilm knew what they were doing, he couldn't believe that his favorite franchise ever became this much of a mess and ruined so many established characters and lore. And I hear this from so many other fans too, both big personalities and regular people. I'm sure even you were in denial at first, not sure. But anyways, many were and many still supported Disney until around TROS when things really hit the fan and people were finally waking up to it. I know some have realized since the beginning, but to very hopeful and very positive people like Theory, they just couldn't accept it until it was too late. Over time, I have seen a hopeful and positive fan like Theory, become so depressed and hopeless after all the pieces of the puzzle slowly came into piece for him. He saw the recent Daisy Ridley interview and that was the last straw for him. He 110% knew at that moment that the ST had zero plans and was done in a way that had no regard or care for the universe. He always disliked Rian Johnson, but never completely disliked the Sequels until just a few months ago. He's now recently kind of disliking JJ after he found out that JJ was a big Prequel hater, Josh from DoN told him during one stream.
Anyways, I hope this helps and if you really wanna see the enlightened version of Theory. He made those positive ST videos not only to make a living of course since he's a full time YT'er after all, but also because he was hopeful that Star Wars wouldn't go into the hole it did with TLJ and TROS. Regardless, he still welcomes all kinds of fans and all kinds of viewpoints, but the Sequels will forever be that black mark in his thoughts of it.
Okay, so these streams AND videos are, to me, the most important to understanding Theory's true and most current stance on the ST. I hope you've already seen The Mandalorian S2 brother, because that was the first time, in a looong time, that Theory said, "Don't give me hope man." and also said "The real [spoiler] is back baby!" & "Star Wars is BACK BABY!" and cried Niagra Falls tears and completely broke and went speechless for that S2 finale:
#1: th-cam.com/video/sboIOK1JjsE/w-d-xo.html
#2: th-cam.com/video/sJC63tFpxB4/w-d-xo.html
#3: th-cam.com/video/_Qi_sI9CeNQ/w-d-xo.html
#4: th-cam.com/video/EpgX-DqlPa8/w-d-xo.html
And #5: th-cam.com/video/udaKOdDdcD8/w-d-xo.html
There are sooo many brief videos and streams from Theory that you can simply sit down and press play on, my guy. Just search "star wars theory sequel trilogy" and you'll find them all. I have a feeling you and him will see eye to eye on nearly everything! Regardless, at least check out those first 5 I've linked to you. Those are the most crucial to understanding his latest and truest stance on the Sequels, in my honest opinion.
Okaaaay now for my final counterargument. People don't like the EU because of TCW:
That certainly isn't true. If anything, it's the contrary. After TCW and even during TCW, back when it was still airing, I've actually gotten into the EU, not as much as TCW was still airing new episodes at the time and I didn't want to miss any of it, but I still read a few EU stories and ended up loving them a whole lot. You may still remember me telling you about this. Overtime, I've also gotten to know many more fans of TCW who have gotten into the EU and have become even bigger fans of the EU than me. Especially MGFCustoms. You should really watch this stream and see how much MGF goes on an on about Plagueis and how that is the best Star Wars book ever made and how he wants James Luceno to write more SW books (here: th-cam.com/video/u1jlUKb7TxU/w-d-xo.html).
Me and MGF are pretty much the same age, 21, and yet we love the EU a whole lot and appreciate and respect it just as much as TCW. TCW means so much to us and millions more because we grew up with it and it introduced us to SW. TCW introduced an entire generation to SW and that has led to so much more newfound love and appreciation for all things SW. More sequel fans because of TCW, more EU fans because of TCW, more KOTOR fans, etc, etc.
I don't agree that TCW makes people shy away from all the books, comics and games. If anything, TCW expands that love, it furthers that love. Now of course there's people who are more into the canon material and that's completely okay. Everyone has a right to their own preference, viewpoint and opinion on anything. But there's of course other fans who harshly criticize the EU and are "glad that it's not canon anymore" and shit like that. But that's not the majority of TCW fans and canon SW fans, in all honesty. I've seen tremendously more show appreciation for Delta Squad, Rahm Kota, Mara Jade, Plagueis, and so on and so forth. I love a lot of the EU myself and wish Delta Squad had more appearances in TCW and maybe they will in the upcoming sequel series for TCW, aka the sequel to my childhood, titled The Bad Batch. Have you seen the "Sizzle" trailer for it on the SW YT channel? Can't wait! :D
Also, hope you've seen TCW S7 by now too. :)
Looking forward to your Splinter video!
he add it in the timeline because it made sense and it is the origin timeline of Star Wars on like canon it sucks because the new timeline is new and it is terrible but I have been hearing that Lucas is back doing Star Wars again and fixing the timeline because Disney charge the timeline and ruined it and the movies were just awful fans round the world hated it and Lucas did do and I heard that Lucas get it back and fired a let of people and that Disney director so I am glad she is gone out of the picture so Disney made a deal with Lucas to bring him back and fix the timeline because how bad they ruined it and he said he will do the origin timeline legends the right timeline of Star Wars and he said he will do dark empire new republic and new Jedi order and old republic it will be the greatest comeback for Star Wars
It's beena year since you posted this and all you said was 100% fake my guy
@@JTR_3 not really mybe if you do your research it is true
I think the biggest mistake Disney made was almost completely discounting the EU for what it was - the continuation of the Story told in the movies. It may have not been George’s perfect vision/idea of what happened after/between/before the films, but its storyline’s and characters had the better part of 20 years to cement themselves into the minds and hearts of fans. Many people were looking forward to seeing Jaina Solo on the big screen but got this (poorly written) Rey character instead and a trilogy of films that had next to no planning beyond the next episode (granted the EU had similar issues at the start as well but Lucasfilm should have been able to identify this from past experience) - Disney had story ideas, characters that didn’t need a hard sell to get fans invested and years of feedback to work with, so there is no real excuse for their trilogy failing the way it did.
Priscilla Brown throwing the EU away sealed the sad fate of Star Wars...
I have literally been talking about this today with some of the Council in Exile, and I just released my review of The Courtship of Princess Leia where I talk about this a lot. I agree with you, my review is long but you should check it out.
One of the instances where Lucas wielded direct authority over the EU was with Karen Traviss's Commando series of books. With her using The Clone Wars as a settings for her novels she was inadvertantly setting up potential canon as she typed and when her vision for a steeped in Warrior culture Mandolore and George's new pacifist domed wasteland Mandolore collided she of course ended up having to shelve the storyline and the books that she was working on. Twas a travesty!
And that Warlike Mandalore actually started in the Jango Fett comics and was expanded upon with Traviss' Republic Commando series.
I somehow love Star Wars but don’t like George Lucas . It’s beyond him now and that’s for the best . Not a huge fan of how Disney started off with it but if we left it only to George we would have cheesy love stories and over simplistic depictions of what is literally called in the movies a galaxy wide universe. I think it was genius to expand the Star Wars universe and if George isn’t down with it he’s a fool
As far as I know it's never said but I think it would have been cool. In Legends Thrawn, Thrass, Formbi and Ar'alani all know each other really well.
I was thinking Thrawn & Thrass are Brothers maybe Formbi & Ar'alani are brother and sister, an Feesa & her sister are the children of Thrawn & Ar'alani, the math works out that they would have been born before Thrawn died, maybe there mother (Ar'alani) died giving birth to them an that is why Thrawn came back to the known galaxy, because he wanted to make sure they where safe, witch is why Formbi is so upset when talking about Thrawn, he wasn't just someone he knew it was part of his family, an he wants to keep safe the last part of his family / friends alive. I just think it gives Thrawn a very understandable reason to come back out of the Unknown Regions.
I just like star wars dont like some but I like what I like George lucas or not
anything that mean ot andtcw too all that george made cant and will never be as epic and great as kotor 1 and 2 plus swtor for added bonus the man made sw but others perfected it.
Whoa wait what? Star Wars is fictional?!?😮😢
Interesting.
I haven't really encountered many people with the viewpoint that legends was lucas's vision.
I assumed that's because it obviously wasn't. While lucas really did like legends, and appreciated every bit of effort put into it, it just wasn't "his starwars."
So much so he never considered legends canon. To him, the films and SWTCW, were the canon.
Everything else was really good fan fiction.
But i suppose if there was enough people saying this for you to make a video of it, there must be more people out there who think this than i initially though.
Everybody knows that "EU" wasn't his vision.
The issue is with people, who take that fact and use it to say "oh, Lucas actually hated the EU, he said that it's non-canon"
And I think we all know that of he'd done anything else Prequel-related, he wouldn't have hesitated to retcon TCW as well.
@@HonestHappyHater Except that's not what this video was about at all...
Your recent videos regarding Lucas involvement have been very informative. Now I can say with confidence that Legends was never 100% Lucas vision at best certain in parts were but not everything.
Thank you for this wonderfully articulate and reasonable explanation.
Personally I think like our children, stories grow up and expand beyond the creators vision. When this happens well enough like with what we had in the continuity canon of the Lucasfilm hierarchy, then its a marvelous thing, and we should work to preserve the story by making room for it to be remembered so it can be experienced by generations to come.
This Grim'alkun dude that spamming comments about how EU wasn't ever Canon is so annoying. He did this in Mand-Alore's channel in his EU rant video. The dude is the golden example of a Disney shill that'll go far and beyond trying to trash the EU/Legends.
EUkeks btfo
14:40 what is the DarkNes trilogy?
The Dark Nest Trilogy was a saga of novels set in 35 ABY-36 ABY, after The New Jedi Order series and before the Legacy of the Force novels. They were also among the first novels released after Revenge of the Sith, making references to the film.
It dealt with a conflict between the Chiss Ascendancy, the Galactic Alliance and the Killiks, an ancient insectoid species comprised of hives that used to live on Alderaan until they disappeared into the Unknown Regions of the galaxy millennia before the foundation of the Galactic Republic. By the time of this story, they have been expanding beyond their borders, encroaching Chiss territory. Since some surviving Jedi that were presumed dead during the Yuuzhan Vong War were influenced by the hive mind of the Killiks, the Chiss accused the Galactic Alliance and the New Jedi Order of supporting the Killiks.
At the same time, it showed the continuing restoration of the New Jedi Order as a well structured organization independent from the government in the aftermath of the Yuuzhan Vong War. Meanwhile, Jacen Solo slowly begins his fall to the Dark Side, which culminates in Legacy of the Force.
I believe without the EU Lucas will not made the Prequels also Lucas used Exar Kun Double Lightsaber for Maul
Yes! Thank you! There are so many rote arguments on the internet that Disney ruined Star Wars by "discarding Lucas' vision." This seems to come with people who are nostalgic about the EU and have very selective memories about how it worked, or else from a younger generation and have a very surface level knowledge of how those stories worked in context and are caught up in the mob mentality of the Gen Xers/older Millennials who grew up with it. Both quickly forget how much Lucas was the scapegoat of the franchise leading up to the purchase, and quickly search for a new one.
My question to those people is this: What would have happened if Lucas *hadn't* sold Star Wars? He was about to retire anyway, he threw those scripts together as a pitch to sell the franchise, who knows if he would have actually made them. And then he would have passed the baton to someone else, probably Kathleen Kennedy, regardless of whether Disney owned the franchise or not.
If newer movies and shows happened, they would have ignored the EU, just as it always did. Best case scenario, things would continue as before with the EU scrambling to retcon itself every time a major tentpole entry was released, and the EU could continue on in its own bubble indefinitely. Worst case scenario, Kathleen or whoever else was in charge would have wiped the slate clean again as her group decided to do, as happened in our reality.
The perceived problems with new material has little to do with Lucas himself and his vision of Star Wars, it's more complicated than that.
Thank you for breaking this down...though, I knew most of this. My question is: How do you think George feels about Disney's The Sequel Trilogy, and The (current) New EU? I really wonder, with George's tier system of canon, where does Lucasfilm Ltd.'s publishing initiative of The High Republic fall under, since, most likely, George Lucas was not consulted for its genesis?
Lucas hasn't consulted with anything in the new canon. Sure, some of his ideas were inspiration for the sequel trilogy and he has visited the Mandalorian set, but has he signed off on anything in the new canon like he did for the old? He signed off on Dark Empire, the Force Unleashed, Shadows of the Empire, the Darth Bane trilogy, the Thrawn trilogy, and a lot of different stories from the old EU. He even created C-canon material, which were the Ewoks films and the Holiday Special. Those three films were exclusively apart of the EU. So my question for EU haters is this: if you're so worried about George's vision or involvement with the EU and use that as a reason to prove the EU wasn't canon if he hasn't given any seal of approval and was disappointed many times when Disney ignored his ideas for sequels? It's a very ironic situation.
@@thesweuteen Well, I've always been of the mind that, The EU was NEVER CANON. However, it was allowed to exist, and it could serve as inspiration for whatever actual, Lucas-sanctioned canon that comes in the future. That was Lucas' decree. For example, George Lucas considers SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE to be actual canon, and that it should have been made in to a movie. He's also taken themes, characters, technology, and lore from The EU, and incorporated it in to his official canon...which is what he was very much hinting at, when he sold the company to Disney, and made note of all of the wealth of source material that had accrued over the last 34 years. Unfortunately, Disney just completely scrapped The EU, and relegated it to "Legends" status, which is worse than any designation Lucas ever gave it. I do believe that Lucas has definitely been a bit of an idea man and inspiration for some of the narrative concepts and plot lines for The Mandalorian Saga, esp. something like, THE BAD BATCH and AHSOKA. I'm currently reading The High Republic, and it always irks me that Lucas didn't officially "sign off' on this new initiative. At the very least, Disney should have asked Lucas to draw up a list of Dos-And-Don'ts for The SWU, galactic lore, and the true history of The Jedi and The Sith. But, time has informed Us that Kennedy and her Story Group were not interested in that kind of narrative dynamic.
Yeah I’m going to disagree.
With which part?
What a helpful comment. It manages to convey little to nothing so well.
With facts?
Roland Deschain Thanks, it was really easy making this comment. I was going to make a longer comment, but I am a lazy person, so I am glad you recognized by lack of effort.
No You Always.
George obviously was involved with the EU’s creation but he’s clearly stated multiple times that it isn’t his story or how he’d choose to do things. Did he maybe like things from it? Modt definitely. Did he edit portions of the NJO series and outline things for EU writers? Sure. But he didn’t create those stories. He was the guy upstairs that the writers went to when they had an idea to propose or had some questions or things they needed outlined. Beyond that, Lucas was mostly divorced from the EU. This logic also applies to TCW btw. Lucas was obvuously involved in the show, advised Filoni, and showed a clear interest in its development. But again, it wasn’t his story. George Lucas’s Star Wars is just the 6 films. Everything aside from that is sanctioned fanfiction and the Disney canon is just an alternate version of the EU.
I disagree there is more to the story it’s called Star Wars legends the expanded universe and it does talk about the clones wars and the galactic civil war in the movies does to it all fits with the story and the timeline
You aren't wrngy, but it was definitely better than his ideas, especially for the sequels
Does any of this really matter?
How many times have they changed and/or continued other stories (i.e Robin Hood, King Arthur, The Three Musketeers) without a care in the world for continuity? Its all fake, none of this really matters,...that's why these kids yelling out that this, or that is, "not my canon" is completely ridiculous bullshit.
Save your energy for real human history, that people are trying to erase, or change.
,...but then none of that really matters in the grand scheme of the infinite universe either.
What I find irksome is that if George Lucas wanted to do sequels, then why did he allow the EU to go ahead in the first place? He could have vetoed all the stuff, just like he did with any Clone Wars era stories. Instead he let the EU grow, let us get all attached to the stories and characters, then said "that's not my vision", and according to Corey here he would've steamrolled it all just like Disney.
Honestly, whatever the lucas sequels were gonna be, i probably would've enjoyed them more than i did the disney sequels.
At least Lucas tries to maintain 1 stable vision. Regardless of wether or not most fans like it.
And that much at least, i would have appreciated.
You did a very good job in this video covering the facts of the matter. I’m 42 now and I think what confuses a lot of the fans was that GL set guidelines for the EU and cherry picked some ideas ( as you mentioned in your video ). I still consider most of the EU as true head canon for me as a fan. Mostly because I felt that they expanded the depth of my favorite characters when GL wasn’t doing anything with those characters anymore.
I gave Disney many chances with the IP. But! They have failed in my eyes on many levels. Not interested in anything they produce going forward. Gina Carano was the final straw for me!
I HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN THAT THE EXPANDED UNIVERSE WASNT LUCAS IDEA HOWEVER I APPRECIATE WHAT LUCAS DID BY LETTING OTHER PEOPLE LETTING HER STORIES WITH HIS I.P. . WHAT I DO NOT LIKE IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED THESE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS DISNEY. WHEN I THINK OF STAR WARS I THINK OF THE OLD REPUBLIC MMO , THE SIX MOVIES, AND THE EXPANDED UNIVERSE.
Thankfully it wasn't :)
I think the thing is that most EU fans would have been much more accepting of the EU being regulated to Legends if it had been George's decision, like if his sequel trilogy treatments had been made into films, and the books/comics/etc of the EU had been put aside into Legends because of that, fans would have been much more accepting of it because it was George, the creator, making that decision rather than Disney (even though I can accept Disney doing so because they wanted a clean slate in which to work with and not beholden to what happened in the EU).
The much beloved (and overhyped) Thrawn trilogy was rendered non-canon by the prequel trilogy. We see some things in it appear in canon too, but it's clear Lucas didn't feel compelled to have his story written for him by some 3rd rate sci fi authors who make a career of writing books on license for pre-existing franchises.
Just wait until you read Outbound Flight. Where Thrawn gives away classified info to a young smuggler he's just met and cunningly out wits a bunch of neimodians who don't know the max range on their starfighters! And have a locked in retreat and take no orders protocol for them if they do get to max range. Oh, will anyone be able to outmatch the cunning, tactical, cool not to mention handsome Thrawn?
@@mattmorehouse9685LMAO, Zahn just can't help himself
Non canon?! Coruscant was invented in that trilogy.
@@Batou3 Read again
What made George the goat was that he allowed creators to create in his universe with a couple of loose ground rules ie no wookie Jedi . I honestly can’t see KK doing the same with Disney Lucasfilm
Didn’t the EU have wookie Jedi?
It did but George stopped them from being made until Tcw which is why there are so few of them
@@raicattivo
Factually wrong, Lowbacca and Tywokka were Wookie Jedi made before TCW, both had to be approved by Lucas
The reason why they are the only ones is because George banned/dissaproved of Wookie Jedi
Lol yet he's gone on record numerous times trashing the EU. That's not much better, if at all.
George Lucas started off amenable to the idea of it being part of his story. In 1993/4 he states he was excited that authors were building stories in his universe. In the late 1990's, he accepted it but stated his vision was different, as he was working on the first prequel film. It was the backlash to the prequels that started making him hate the EU, particularly after 2003, and also the fans sending him death threats and calling him a pedophile, which ultimately drove him over the edge and made him sell Star Wars.
If you read the quotes this progression is obvious, and any quotes need to be checked for date because they show how his views changed over time, and in response to how the fans treated him.
I've read the quotes, he never, ever said that he hates the EU, in fact in 2008 he still took part in creating it:
“Lucas approves every important addition to the canon. The ambitious story beats contained in the new game The Force Unleashed were permitted only after he signed off-and spent hours talking to the developers about the relationship between Darth Vader and the Emperor.”- Leland Chee, Continuity Database administrator aka Keeper of the Holocron for Lucas Licensing, Interview with thewire.com, Meet Leland Chee, the Star Wars Franchise Continuity Cop, August 18th, 2008
And mentioned it as part of his justification to not make the sequels:
“George Lucas says “There really isn’t any story to tell. It’s been covered in the books, and video games, and comic books which are things I think are incredibly creative.”” George Lucas Interview with the LA times, George Lucas: 'Star Wars' won't go beyond Darth Vader, May 7th, 2008
It's simple really:
1. No, Lucas had no hand in the Expanded Universe.
2. The EU was not canon.
3. He was about to get rid of it completely.
Mid bait, but points for trying, 6/10
@@HonestHappyHatermid opinion you’re wrong but thanks for trying 5/10.
@@darthnater9731
Great retort, but had to deduct points for unoriginality, 5/10
You get off on Rey Skywalker’s yellow stick don’t you?
Would have been better than his ideas
I'm sick of these EU fanboys that cherry pick these quotes from second-hand sources and go "SEE SEE IT WAS CANON!". The whole original EU can basically be summarized as "Canon until it conveniently isn't anymore". One minute the story you love is "canon", the next year it isn't, either because of some new story or Lucas makes the prequels and completely rewrites everything you knew about Boba Fett and the Clone Wars for example.
@@beanbunny9315 If the EU was canon then why did Lucas say they were separate from his his stories, i.e. they're not canon? Why did he just so blatantaly ignore the EU when writing the prequels? You can cease the mental gymnastics.
@@beanbunny9315 "He never said they were separate" *clear throat*
“There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe-the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”
- George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
“I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”
- George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005
You were saying? And again I will also add the point, then why did he he ignore the EU when making the prequals which yes he did. Notice how you fail to explain how he didn't.
As Corey said in the video, the fact it wasn't part of GL's vision doesn't mean it wasn't canon. And yes, there was a hierarchy, GL's content took precedance. Of cpurse the EU didn't have as deffinitive bearing to the universe as the movjes, because it wasn't written by the damn creator. But it was canon unless stated othwrwise or overwritten by George Lucas.
Hell, even the new canon stuff is overwritten by disney movies and TV shows, primarly Dave Feloni's. By your logic the new cankn novels and comics are non-canon then.
This "parallel universe" thing was George's view on it, yes, it's obvious he considered it somewhat separate. But he never ratified that officially.
I'm rired of both sides of this debate. You all oversimplify this, either saying the EU was George's vision or that it was all non-canon. Neitger of these statements are true.
@Emzonik it gets oversimplified because it is simple. Lucas said several times they weren't part of his universe, hence they weren't canon. I don't think most people who are busy with their victim complex against Disney realize or remember how much control Lucas had over the franchise, and that the point, like it or not, what the man said goes (at the time), and he referred to them as parallel universes. That literally means they don't affect each other (unless there's some type of universe crossing event and story).
Saying "well then the new EU can't be canon either because they get overwritten by Feloni's movies" means nothing because the new EU already is a mess, almost the size of the old EU in a fraction of the time. In all honesty it shouldn't be canon, but Disney is now in control and what they say goes regardless of it makes sense
@@MrRed88 G. Lucas said how he personally viewed the EU. As I said he never ratified that officially. "What he said goes" doesn't mean that everybody had to treat every singke word that came out of his mouth literarly and adjust to it. For example he also said "his world" was a "select period of time" inplying the EU was free to cover the rest. He just didn't look on it as the same universe as his movies, because those works were created by other writers. As a matter of fact he didn't really care. But the official Lucasfilm standpoint had always been the same since the 90's, the EU was canon. The answer to this is not simple at all, it's a complex topic.
No thanks, Star Wars is better without George Lucas. Thank. Bringing him back is a mistake.
The Old EU, perhaps. Not the Disney Canon, that's a dumpster fire. For all his faults, George Lucas is a big step up from there.
Do you own funkos