"Jesus performed miracles in front of people and they still didn't believe"...is the excuse apologists give for why God has been a "no-show" on miracles in front of large numbers of people, especially in the post-19th Century, since the invention of photography, cinema, and video. "Oh, God could make manna rain from Heaven, but he won't because you still wouldn't believe it was a miracle."....sort of like the old "I can fly around like Superman, but I won't do it because then you'd reveal my secret powers and the Government would kidnap me."
@@whelperw The "miracle of healing" "oddly" tends to fall right in line with random chance. "Miracle healing of terminal cancer" occurs at exactly the same rate as the expected remission rate of that cancer. And the ONLY people who get to go around and claim it WAS a miracle...are the survivors, not the people who die.
I don't think a lack of modern day miracles is a strong case against God's existence. If God does exist, he's not required to do miracles; the miracles in scripture are done at specific times for specific reasons. Just because God is capable of something, that does not necessitate that he do that thing publicly or often. Human beings are capable of terrible violence and cruelty; yet most people are not violent or cruel. Doesn't mean we can't be; just means we choose not to be. Similarly, God has chosen to reveal himself primarily through his word and his church. That doesn't mean he's incapable of miracles; it just means he typically chooses not to interact with us like that. Jesus himself actually talks about situations like this in a very sobering parable in Luke 16:19-31. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that one reason Christians say this to you is because of that passage.
@@fantasmilfilms100 we don't talk here about deism, we talk about christianity. Your excuse would be used by LITERALLY anybody who believes in miracles.
What exactly was the take-away btw? Cuz from my perspective he basically carpet-bombed the audience and then passed out bandaids at the end. The end message seemed to be "I know you got an incredible compelling argument, but like be nice and act Christian. Thanks. Bye!"
I was pretty upbeat about my new found lack of belief, when I realised I wasn't in fear of eternal suffering. I'm not going to be an arsehole to you, I'm here to hear others opinions however, I'd much rather you didn't spread misinformation about atheists, in the same way I won't spread misinformation about you.
Taking "Dr." McDowell down is as easy as challenging him to back up his "God is good" claim with a list of hypothetical acts which cause so much pain, misery, suffering and grief that, although he believes his "evil Satan" might perpetrate such acts against people, his "good" god _never_ would. Watch him balk! 🤣
Not at all. Sean has an answer for your accusation that God is a moral monster. It probably goes something like this: “How can you, a creation of The Creator, put The Creator on trial? You need only read Job to understand how foolish such a position is. You are attempting to judge a being who is eternal. You are attempting to judge a being who became human and suffered horribly so that He could redeem those who would seek Him and trust Him. Your problem is you don’t understand how sinful sin really is. You don’t understand what God being HOLY really means. You can’t fathom how filthy you are…how filthy we all are in fact. Without the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross there was no way for a holy God to restore fallen man to who he was created to be. You are proud and think yourself wise and yet if you continue on your current path you will die in your sins. And though you don’t even likely believe that sin is a real thing…you will die in it. You will be separated from God for eternity. This material life is not the end. God is spirit and you will learn that you do indeed have a spirit. Please…seek to disprove the Bible. Dive deep and do everything possible to disprove it. But honestly go about it. And in so doing may you undergo the same reluctant conversion that turned C.S. Lewis and made him a powerhouse champion of the Bible. Yes, seek to utterly disprove God’s WORD. Please…”
I'm puzzled. You could be a bit less naive in portraying your character. I do not feel we make a good service when we do not engage the best arguments in the best way
Yeah, but there's also pretty good evidence that the exodus wasn't literal. Israeli archeologists have gone through early sites in Israel, and it looks like the original Israelis were just outgrowths from tribes already living in the area (not a big, sudden migration from Egypt).
@@Bazooka_Sharks Most scholars says that the Apiru mentioned in the Armana letters were not the Israelites. For one, the Armana letters say that they were allied with the Amorites (which the Israelites were not, in the Old Testament).. More importantly, even if the Apiru were the Israelites, the letters mention nothing about the Exodus (only the conquest of Canaan).
"Jesus performed miracles in front of people and they still didn't believe"...is the excuse apologists give for why God has been a "no-show" on miracles in front of large numbers of people, especially in the post-19th Century, since the invention of photography, cinema, and video. "Oh, God could make manna rain from Heaven, but he won't because you still wouldn't believe it was a miracle."....sort of like the old "I can fly around like Superman, but I won't do it because then you'd reveal my secret powers and the Government would kidnap me."
Miracles, it is very interesting subject to talk about (with christians), but often then not, they dont "believe" it possible for miracle to happen.
@@whelperw The "miracle of healing" "oddly" tends to fall right in line with random chance. "Miracle healing of terminal cancer" occurs at exactly the same rate as the expected remission rate of that cancer. And the ONLY people who get to go around and claim it WAS a miracle...are the survivors, not the people who die.
I don't think a lack of modern day miracles is a strong case against God's existence. If God does exist, he's not required to do miracles; the miracles in scripture are done at specific times for specific reasons. Just because God is capable of something, that does not necessitate that he do that thing publicly or often. Human beings are capable of terrible violence and cruelty; yet most people are not violent or cruel. Doesn't mean we can't be; just means we choose not to be. Similarly, God has chosen to reveal himself primarily through his word and his church. That doesn't mean he's incapable of miracles; it just means he typically chooses not to interact with us like that.
Jesus himself actually talks about situations like this in a very sobering parable in Luke 16:19-31. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that one reason Christians say this to you is because of that passage.
@@fantasmilfilms100 we don't talk here about deism, we talk about christianity. Your excuse would be used by LITERALLY anybody who believes in miracles.
@whelperw maybe so. But considering that Christians believe in a deity (God), that observation doesn't nullify the points I made above.
"Lying For Jesus" is STILL LYING.
Great way to make the point! I trust the lesson will stick in our mind for a long time. Bless the Lord for using you for this Impact!
What exactly was the take-away btw? Cuz from my perspective he basically carpet-bombed the audience and then passed out bandaids at the end.
The end message seemed to be "I know you got an incredible compelling argument, but like be nice and act Christian. Thanks. Bye!"
this school must have a real bad bug problem with those big blue lights on stage 😂
Wow, these people are not all peetending, right. Just JMcD. They know so little 😮
The only thing not believable about Sean's performance is; I've never see an atheist so up beat about his new found lack of belief.
You need to get out more.
I was pretty upbeat about my new found lack of belief, when I realised I wasn't in fear of eternal suffering. I'm not going to be an arsehole to you, I'm here to hear others opinions however, I'd much rather you didn't spread misinformation about atheists, in the same way I won't spread misinformation about you.
It wouldve been funny if sometime michael heiser had showed up with a question 😂 thatd be a cool crossover
So basically he's saying that his glasses greatly increase his IQ
Taking "Dr." McDowell down is as easy as challenging him to back up his "God is good" claim with a list of hypothetical acts which cause so much pain, misery, suffering and grief that, although he believes his "evil Satan" might perpetrate such acts against people, his "good" god _never_ would. Watch him balk! 🤣
Not at all. Sean has an answer for your accusation that God is a moral monster. It probably goes something like this: “How can you, a creation of The Creator, put The Creator on trial? You need only read Job to understand how foolish such a position is. You are attempting to judge a being who is eternal. You are attempting to judge a being who became human and suffered horribly so that He could redeem those who would seek Him and trust Him. Your problem is you don’t understand how sinful sin really is. You don’t understand what God being HOLY really means. You can’t fathom how filthy you are…how filthy we all are in fact. Without the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross there was no way for a holy God to restore fallen man to who he was created to be. You are proud and think yourself wise and yet if you continue on your current path you will die in your sins. And though you don’t even likely believe that sin is a real thing…you will die in it. You will be separated from God for eternity. This material life is not the end. God is spirit and you will learn that you do indeed have a spirit. Please…seek to disprove the Bible. Dive deep and do everything possible to disprove it. But honestly go about it. And in so doing may you undergo the same reluctant conversion that turned C.S. Lewis and made him a powerhouse champion of the Bible. Yes, seek to utterly disprove God’s WORD. Please…”
@@davidhawkes1981 Yeah, sadly bad answers are still answers.
I'm puzzled. You could be a bit less naive in portraying your character. I do not feel we make a good service when we do not engage the best arguments in the best way
29:04 i know hes pretending, but there is evidence for the exodus 😂 titus Kennedy, his source, points to the early exodus based on archaeologylol
This would be an example of apologists lying about the Exodus.
Yeah, but there's also pretty good evidence that the exodus wasn't literal. Israeli archeologists have gone through early sites in Israel, and it looks like the original Israelis were just outgrowths from tribes already living in the area (not a big, sudden migration from Egypt).
@@inotterwords6115 uhm.. no. The amarna letters say otherwise
@@Bazooka_Sharks Most scholars says that the Apiru mentioned in the Armana letters were not the Israelites. For one, the Armana letters say that they were allied with the Amorites (which the Israelites were not, in the Old Testament)..
More importantly, even if the Apiru were the Israelites, the letters mention nothing about the Exodus (only the conquest of Canaan).