To avoid timing issues in my broadcast mix, I've delayed everything except the crowd mics to line it up too - it's made a big difference for us. As always, great video James!
You have helped me so much. I am such a novice and wearing the hat of pastor and lead tech. All your videos have been hugely helpful, especially when I am using an analog board and laptop with OBS.
My church is a small congregation that uses the building after the main church does their services, so we have to set up and tear down every Sunday, we uses a Ui 24 mixer so we have limited channels, I use one condenser cardioid mic in front of the pulpit as a ambient mic, as high as possible, only for broadcast and in ears monitor, after worship, I turn it down, to avoid phase issues with pastor mic. So far works ok
Crowd! Was blessed to find a set of AT815b in the closet at one church. They worked great in the main sanctuary in stereo! Set them up in the balcony pointing at the sidewalls. They work less as a "crowd" mic and more like "ambience", but in any case they keep the mix from sounding flat. When they recently moved services to the gym for renovation in the main room, we set the mics up along the back wall pointed towards the ceiling. They needed some low pass to quell the HVAC noise, but worked out great. One pointer that really helped in mixing the crowd/ambient: using pretty heavy compression. HTH and thanks for sharing!
@@AttawayAudio Knowing to HPF and LPF are pretty important pieces of the puzzle, imo. My general rule is to "turn the knobs til it sounds good". (There's a t-shirt slogan for ya...) If it isn't sounding good, keep twisting knobs.
I have 2 Rode NTG2 shotguns mounted high in front of stage and 2 AKG C1000S with hypercardiod adapter mounted high about 1/3 of the way towards the FOH, Picks up congregation nicely. Update: just added 2 AT 871 boundary mics. Mounted left and right on the exposed A frame.
I use a pair of Shure's MX393 (with 185 cardioid cartridge) put at the front of the stage, facing to the crowd, tbh it's not the best option but it just works really well!!
A great video, thanks so much. Any thoughts on practical performance differences of the Diety S-Mic 2 and the Rode NTG-1 shotguns for a permanent crowd miking applications?
Great video! I have one question though: what if you have a congregation where there’s a lot of screaming (in the spirit) and you don’t want to have that in the mix? Is it then good to abandon the whole concept of ambient mic? Or is there a way around that?
You could change the approach and try and get less of the crowd specifically and more of the ambience, or the sound from the PA itself. I would probably never suggest this in any other context, but maybe point shotgun mics AWAY from the crowd?
Our church is a converted warehouse. I have two matching condenser mics and pointing them out from the stage down 2/3rds away. I have been thinking of hanging them from the beams instead. Is that a good idea? If so, how far down is recommended?
Raising them up changes the distance ratio for those in the front vs. the back. So in general it's a good thing, as long as the cable runs don't make it noisy.
In the description u link the Audio-Technica PRO 35 Cardioid clip-on. I did not see them in the video. So they make good crowd mics? These are in our budget, but would the hanging PRO 45, be similar or even better? They cost a little less but would be easier for us to mount.
hii.. i just make a live stream every week from the studio only. i mix full band. so should i use a crowd mic to get "live" sound for my stream. and if so, where is the right place for me to put the crowd mic?? bcause the studio just 15ft x 20ft... so how to use and where to put my crowd mic?? soryy for my english..
Tanks for all your vid and tips, it's awesome. I have a question, at around 5'45, you talk about a "timed delay to match the delay of multiples (too much) crowd mic". Is there any formula to setup that kind of delay ? Or would you rather do it by ear ? I hope you'll read this and find the time to answer my question. Cheers from France 🇨🇵
Hey Alex! The simplest way is to record both the mics and the direct mix and look on the timeline of your DAW to see the timing difference. Use a click track, clap or snare hit to really dial it in. Cheers!
James This video helped so much. But have a question about hanging mics. No matter where I place the mics. They will be in line of sight to speaker clusters. Thoughts please.
Awesome video! Question... We mix our Live Stream "Post Fader" to a Bus so that we can manage it all with one sound person... If my crowd mics are turned all the way down in the house I can't get them in the Stream mix. How would I go about getting them in the Stream but keeping them out of the House mix?
Hey James, would rode NT5 be good crowd mics? I can’t decide on what to get. The crowd mics would be placed probably on stage about 5 feet above audience. Would also be near subs and next to/in front of an acoustic drum set... what type of mic would work best ?
Any time you can use polar pattern to help reject noise, that's best. So cardioid like those is ok, but hypercardioid is better. You'll get a lot of drum bleed either way, just due to proximity. Sometimes dynamic mics can help filter out some more of that noise, so 57s or 58s are a good option.
the question is: would "crowd" mics become solo mics, choir mics, or truly crowd mics? Try it with a 57 or something and see what balance you're getting with how small you are
I have audience mics but I mix broadcast from FOM, I'm afraid Im not gonna be able to gauge what's too much or not enough audience mics for the broadcast by listening to headphone at FOH. Any tips on that?
I have an extra MXL 990 condenser at my disposal, would i be able to use that for our closed circuit in ears crowd mic? Or would it pick up too much stage sound?
hello, can you please help me? i am vocalist from metal band and because of little low knowledge about live mixing( i live in Nepal),i don't really know how i can make my myself sound more heavy,more distortion and much more clear + louder(i think i am asking too much lol) in mixing console ..so can i take one cup of water from your vast ocean of knowledge ... it would really help me
Hey Diwas! Unfortunately, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to metal vocals. But these principles might help: try compression and/or distortion in parallel with the clean signal. That might help you get closer to what you're wanting, without having to get it "all" on one channel. Cheers!
Would be great to have a video about audience mic placement. Comparison in sounds from small bars to big church crowds. Such an overlooked process.
To avoid timing issues in my broadcast mix, I've delayed everything except the crowd mics to line it up too - it's made a big difference for us. As always, great video James!
woah we're bending the time-space continuum now... 🤣 good to hear from you Adam!
You have helped me so much. I am such a novice and wearing the hat of pastor and lead tech. All your videos have been hugely helpful, especially when I am using an analog board and laptop with OBS.
wow, thanks for covering all that! Grace grace to you!
My church is a small congregation that uses the building after the main church does their services, so we have to set up and tear down every Sunday, we uses a Ui 24 mixer so we have limited channels, I use one condenser cardioid mic in front of the pulpit as a ambient mic, as high as possible, only for broadcast and in ears monitor, after worship, I turn it down, to avoid phase issues with pastor mic. So far works ok
Crowd! Was blessed to find a set of AT815b in the closet at one church. They worked great in the main sanctuary in stereo! Set them up in the balcony pointing at the sidewalls. They work less as a "crowd" mic and more like "ambience", but in any case they keep the mix from sounding flat. When they recently moved services to the gym for renovation in the main room, we set the mics up along the back wall pointed towards the ceiling. They needed some low pass to quell the HVAC noise, but worked out great. One pointer that really helped in mixing the crowd/ambient: using pretty heavy compression. HTH and thanks for sharing!
Nice! Yeah I typically HPF and LPF my room mics. Glad you got it figured out!
@@AttawayAudio Knowing to HPF and LPF are pretty important pieces of the puzzle, imo. My general rule is to "turn the knobs til it sounds good". (There's a t-shirt slogan for ya...) If it isn't sounding good, keep twisting knobs.
That intro was righteous, brother!
I have 2 Rode NTG2 shotguns mounted high in front of stage and 2 AKG C1000S with hypercardiod adapter mounted high about 1/3 of the way towards the FOH, Picks up congregation nicely.
Update: just added 2 AT 871 boundary mics. Mounted left and right on the exposed A frame.
nice!
First time seeing one of your vids, excellent presentation, editing, & practical too
Thanks!
👊🏼👍🏼 yes he is back! Thanks bro....
You bet! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
"Nobody leaves church humming the kick drum" HAHAHHAH brilliant. Tell that to my MD :)
Crowd. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Good to see you online again.
Glad to be back! Been doing a lot of back-end work to bring you more great content 😀
I use a pair of Shure's MX393 (with 185 cardioid cartridge) put at the front of the stage, facing to the crowd, tbh it's not the best option but it just works really well!!
Nice! Getting started is better than waiting for perfection 🙌🏼
Welcome back thanks again, nice video, useful and helpful as always~
Glad to be back! Lots of back-end work prepping for more videos and courses
After watching a video on pencil condenser vs shotgun mics, i'll go with the pencil condenser to mic our room/crowd for live streaming.
Crowd! Crowd mics help so much thanks for the info!
You bet! Always happy to help
A great video, thanks so much. Any thoughts on practical performance differences of the Diety S-Mic 2 and the Rode NTG-1 shotguns for a permanent crowd miking applications?
I haven't compared the two side-by-side, but I absolutely LOVE my Diety S-Mic 2, and the church where I've installed a pair loves them too.
Crowd.
Any microphone idea for online and onsite (hybrid) mini prayer group for around 7 people onsite?
Crowd. This is so helpful
Great video! I have one question though: what if you have a congregation where there’s a lot of screaming (in the spirit) and you don’t want to have that in the mix? Is it then good to abandon the whole concept of ambient mic? Or is there a way around that?
You could change the approach and try and get less of the crowd specifically and more of the ambience, or the sound from the PA itself. I would probably never suggest this in any other context, but maybe point shotgun mics AWAY from the crowd?
Thanks bro. fantastic! I'm from a little church on a budget
Me too actually. I just set up some spare SM58s on stands on the front of the stage yesterday
Our church is a converted warehouse. I have two matching condenser mics and pointing them out from the stage down 2/3rds away. I have been thinking of hanging them from the beams instead. Is that a good idea? If so, how far down is recommended?
Raising them up changes the distance ratio for those in the front vs. the back. So in general it's a good thing, as long as the cable runs don't make it noisy.
4:20 what's the title of the song ?
Any advice on the EQ / PAN settings for the crowd mics? I presume run the HPF fairly high and PAN hard L/R to keep out of the center mix?
Exactly! HPF around 200 is my starting place
In the description u link the Audio-Technica PRO 35 Cardioid clip-on. I did not see them in the video. So they make good crowd mics? These are in our budget, but would the hanging PRO 45, be similar or even better? They cost a little less but would be easier for us to mount.
They were the clip on instrument mics in b-roll... big pretty church, hung under the balcony
hii.. i just make a live stream every week from the studio only. i mix full band. so should i use a crowd mic to get "live" sound for my stream. and if so, where is the right place for me to put the crowd mic?? bcause the studio just 15ft x 20ft... so how to use and where to put my crowd mic?? soryy for my english..
Great help! Thanks for the video!
Glad it helped! You're welcome Shane!
Tanks for all your vid and tips, it's awesome. I have a question, at around 5'45, you talk about a "timed delay to match the delay of multiples (too much) crowd mic". Is there any formula to setup that kind of delay ? Or would you rather do it by ear ? I hope you'll read this and find the time to answer my question. Cheers from France 🇨🇵
Hey Alex! The simplest way is to record both the mics and the direct mix and look on the timeline of your DAW to see the timing difference. Use a click track, clap or snare hit to really dial it in. Cheers!
James
This video helped so much. But have a question about hanging mics.
No matter where I place the mics. They will be in line of sight to speaker clusters. Thoughts please.
If you can use the directional characteristics of the mic and a HPF, that'll go a long way
Could you elaborate more on the placement of SM57 or SM58 mics on the stage? How exactly can they be placed
point them out at the crowd. don't put them too low. don't put them in the way of people seeing.
Thank you for the elaboration
Wow! new video.thanks!
More to come!
Awesome video! Question... We mix our Live Stream "Post Fader" to a Bus so that we can manage it all with one sound person... If my crowd mics are turned all the way down in the house I can't get them in the Stream mix. How would I go about getting them in the Stream but keeping them out of the House mix?
It requires that certain channels are pre-fader, or un-assigned from the main bus.
Hey James, would rode NT5 be good crowd mics? I can’t decide on what to get. The crowd mics would be placed probably on stage about 5 feet above audience. Would also be near subs and next to/in front of an acoustic drum set... what type of mic would work best ?
Any time you can use polar pattern to help reject noise, that's best. So cardioid like those is ok, but hypercardioid is better. You'll get a lot of drum bleed either way, just due to proximity. Sometimes dynamic mics can help filter out some more of that noise, so 57s or 58s are a good option.
Also, in a smaller auditorium with people close to the stage, should we use a read crowd mic? This is only for the streaming mix.
the question is: would "crowd" mics become solo mics, choir mics, or truly crowd mics? Try it with a 57 or something and see what balance you're getting with how small you are
I have audience mics but I mix broadcast from FOM, I'm afraid Im not gonna be able to gauge what's too much or not enough audience mics for the broadcast by listening to headphone at FOH. Any tips on that?
check on your phone and dial it in. might take a few weeks but you'll get there
I have an extra MXL 990 condenser at my disposal, would i be able to use that for our closed circuit in ears crowd mic? Or would it pick up too much stage sound?
The only way to know is to try it and see/hear!
Waiting for this one :) !
Glad I could give you what you wanted 😀
"Nobody has to wear a t-shirt with a picture of jazz babies playing the saxophone on it." Thank you for that. :)
I'm glad _somebody_ got it 😂
I came straight to the comments to see who else got it! Lol
How do you compensate for the delay in the crowd mic with direct mics on a livestream?
You can route your close mics to a bus and delay that bus so they arrive closer to in-time, then send the bus and the crowd mics to a matrix.
really helpful thanks
You're welcome! Glad it was helpful Olaoluwa!
Good morning everyone!
Good morning!
Crowd❤
hello, can you please help me? i am vocalist from metal band and because of little low knowledge about live mixing( i live in Nepal),i don't really know how i can make my myself sound more heavy,more distortion and much more clear + louder(i think i am asking too much lol) in mixing console ..so can i take one cup of water from your vast ocean of knowledge ... it would really help me
Hey Diwas! Unfortunately, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to metal vocals. But these principles might help: try compression and/or distortion in parallel with the clean signal. That might help you get closer to what you're wanting, without having to get it "all" on one channel. Cheers!
do you use autotune for a crowd mics? looks like everywhere people in room are singing well, except my church))))
lol no. But if your crowd is big enough it all averages out. Do you have a smaller congregation?
Attaway Audio yes... 20-30 members. I also found my problem. I keep mics in front of stage... (((
thanks for your videos . It helps a lot
Will lighting interfere with hanging microphones?
it could. you're mostly concerned with power
Shout out Righteous Bros! 😂
Crowd!
Thanks for watching mintchipster!
Great information but couldn't focus because of the room tones you have going on there, sounds like youre inside a snare drum, lol.
sorry... basement life 🤷♂️
@@AttawayAudio I was never trying to be rude, great channel
Crowd!!
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Crowd, bro, crowd.
yaaassss brah, yaaassss
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Crowd
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crowd
Nice! Thanks for watching 😀
Crowd
Nice Bo 👍🏼
CROWD
Thanks for checking in Josue!
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Nice! Thanks for watching Malvin!
Crowd
nice! Thanks for watching and commenting Dwayne!
Crowd
Sweet! Thanks for checking in, Leo!
Crowd
Thanks for checking in!
Crowd
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