10 Minutes of Fun...then STALLS! -Part 1 (Chrysler Crossfire)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Haven't worked on one of these little roadsters...a 2005 Chrysler Crossfire Convertible!
It's at a local shop who tells me the car just randomly STALLS out after a few minutes of driving, and WILL NOT RESTART until it cools all the way down.
Also there seems to be a PARASITIC DRAIN since the battery is always dead after it sits for a week.
Let's jump in, get it started, and collect some data. Should be a fun one :)
IVAN'S PICOSCOPE WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.c...
THINKTOOL PROS:
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Enjoy
Ivan
Oh what a feeling, when you see a new PHAD video just posted an hour ago and you have just enough time to watch it. Nice!
Story of my life! 10 Minutes of Fun...then STALLS!
xD
You might as well explode at that point.
At least your not a minute man from Up North....😅😅
Merci pour tes explications, super vidéo 👍
without seeing the video I'd say is the CKP sensor. Thats tipical for the M112 Engines
I have a '03 SLK320 with the same engine. I haven't replaced this sensor yet, but I think I will get one on the glovebox just in case
at least you know where to start, a new harness.......
Nope...new car
Hey Ivan, when you use the leads to scope - like at 14:21 are you puncturing the insulation or is the reading coming through the insulation? and are those leads wireless?
Nuts I have a red crossfire that is coming to my shop tomorrow that stalls
run forest run
I've worked on a number of those crossfires and for some odd reason, it will almost never record a CKP sensor code. Even when it's unplugged. Something strange about Chryslers software on those ECM's. Maybe check to see if there is a TSB on a possible software update? But very common failure on those engines is a bad CKP sensor. Spot on diagnostics though.
This IS very usual with many european cars that no codes when Crank sensor not working
@@HUBONEN That's very strange. I haven't worked on many euro cars. Just Japanese suvs and American trucks, mostly
Don't think i ever seen a code for crank sensor, even if it dies while running. Although not that familiar with us cars. maybe they set it?
@@Iceeeen Most American cars will set a CKP code when the computer can't detect a signal from the crank position sensor.
Wow owner needs to invest in a cat.
Owner doesn't want the cat to be caught in the Crossfire 😅
Well it wouldn't be a Chrysler without some sort of electrical issue....
You mean something like a starter going bad at 30K miles on a Renegade? 😙 🙃
I had one of these crossfires in the shop. It was an auction car that a used car lot I do work for bought because it had oxygen sensor slow response codes for all four sensors and nobody including a couple of dealerships and multiple shops could find the problem. Turns out someone had the exhaust off of the car at some point while working on it and that end of the harness was symmetrical and the oxygen sensor connectors were the same. All it needed was to have the harness under the car to the oxygen sensor unplugged and flipped around and the problem was solved. 😂 The car was in great shape it just kept being shuffled around through car lots and the auction because nobody could get the light off. Needless to say he was ecstatic and threw me an extra little bonus on that job. People tend to get in their own heads when messing with Mercedes and other German cars
I think with all the wiring damage, I would have checked to make sure those wires to the sensor weren't shorting to ground, not just to each other. I have also seen sensor wires short to other wires in the harness before. When I get that far into one, and I really have a feeling that is what is going on, sometimes it is time for the snippy snippy and then bypass. I guess I would also try to let it cool then read the CKP unplugged and see if you get more than 1 volt peak to peak. I would also be curious to see if you could fire the ignition from bidirectional controls like you can on other Chryslers, or if that PCM is truly a Mercedes PCM and doesn't have the option. It isn't really needed since you had no injector pulse though, but I would be curious.
I have to confess it would take me a hell of a lot of self discipline to not just yeet that nest first.
I had this happen on my 06 SL500. Luckily i parked it at my house then 10 minutes later it just cranked but never started. I googled the symptoms and about 20 forums popped up saying crank shaft position sensor. Took about 10 minutes and $38 to replace and old one was very oily. Cranked car and started right up. Car only had 74k miles on it. This brought back memories. I like your videos, your a very smart guy.
I do not miss these Cars at all. Mercedes and Chrysler's worst combined effort. Nobody will program them anymore, not even the dealer, so they started bringing them to us. Smh. Makes me sad spending hours to do something that should take 20 minutes on any "normal" vehicle.
They had a great idea to make vegetable based wire coatings. Ugh.
Rpm does not move when you are cranking it. That means it is a crank sensor I think.
Chrysler and Mercedes car, what could go wrong😜
Amen!
CKP is a super common culprit for this set of symptoms on the M112/M113. They are fairly cheap for OEM at least. Never use anything else.
Yeah.. Get OEM, because we wouldn't want it to fail... oh wait
@@calholli The car is 17 years old and that could be the original. What's the issue again?
@@kevin9c1 Issue was the CKP went out at 45k miles.. Did you not watch the video? If it's not a Ford or Toyota or Honda, I don't want it. lol
@@calholli what part of the car is seventeen years old did you fail to understand?
Thank you for explaining your thoughts and actions to avoid. Probably never work on a Benz powered Chrysler, but applying your techniques will help avoid the parts cannon on a hybrid's climate control system later this week.
I work exclusively on Jeeps and rarely (less than 1 in 100) see a crankshaft position sensor code when the sensor goes bad
That's crazy...you would think a simple circuit check on a 2-wire sensor would be easy!
I had a 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee. And apparently people online were saying that it will trip the same code, whether it's a bad crank or bad cam sensor... I had an intermittent CRK, and finally a bad cam sensor died. So I swapped out the cam sensor, it would run-- and then the CRK kept acting up at random and it took me a few times of it leaving me stranded to finally get it nailed down, that it was the crank sensor. I could reposition the crank sensor and it would work fine for a bit.. I think I even tried a shim, it was real finicky to get it in the right place to work correctly. But the new one worked right away, so maybe it was just too weak. So mine literally needed both. (mainly the cam sensor was bad because the guy before me kept messing with the timing, had the wires rigged and ripped out/ I had to order a new connector that fits the cam sensor and rewire it; and he even had the timing off by a tooth, which I also fixed). It was the 4.0L -- was a great motor after I got it dialed in. But getting that figured out was annoying.
Chrysler Crossfire, the best of Chrysler and Mercedes.
should have named it the misfit. it came from that island of toy fame. rudolph nose
These are such garbage vehicles
I have a 2004 crossfire. Had a issue with the battery cable. Wire going into battery clamp was lose. Being held on only by the rubber casing. Symptoms: All power was fine. Acted up when I went to start car. Lost power, headlights(main sign). Looking at cable You could not tell it was bad. Figured out by grabbing cable and it felt like cable was not secure. Cut rubber lose and cable fell out of battery clamp.
Great diagnostic procedure, confirming the gut feeling it was a broken CKP sensor. Wouldn't be possible without the scope and the brain controlling it :-) Very curious about the parasitic draw.
Problem child? Looks like they have a parking lot full of problem children.
Thanks for sharing your work Ivan. I agree with you 100% on trying to be careful not to accidentally “fix” the problem by moving stuff around. Especially with an intermittent problem. In the semi truck field, we have so many trucks that come in with intermittent electrical issues, so when the problem is finally active, you have to be very gentle with the truck to pin point the problem, other wise, it will come back. It upsets me when I see mechanics going around unplugging connectors to check the terminals prior to checking voltages, signals, etc..
Also wanted to mention that on the Navistar engines, for whatever reason, cam and cranks sensor failures hardly ever log faults. No active or previously active faults logged. Pretty strange
I've had a similar issues on a diesel LDV V80, it would crank no start. Only DTC was for CKP signal disturbed. Scoped it, new sensor, wires load tested, target wheel all fine. It turned out to be starter motor failing, drawing too much current and there wasn't enough for CKP sensor. New starter fixed it. But it cranked fine you would not tell that starter was faulty
Interesting! What was the voltage drop during cranking?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 8-10V. Most of the time it was 9 and some change. The CKP is rather big thing with permanent magnet in it. 2 wire
Engine probably didn't spin quick enough to generate a signal.
When car stop when is warm, first check CKP. Ice spray, start and 5 min without this scope, wires etc.
Is it me, or are Chrysler products just electrical nightmares waiting to happen? I follow several blogs (automotive repair , off road,, and some Jeeps) and Chryslers grab the lion's share of electrical issues. I know my '98 TJ is prone to go wacky if I add something it doesn't like ( even OEM sensors can act up) but it seems like the newer stuff is even more problematic.
The problem diagnosed here is common to the R170 Mercedes Benz SLK 320 that this car is based on. The Chrysler part is the suspension tuning and body style.
@@cwilsonpa Excellent point! And from what I gather the best solution is to replace the sensor with that specific to the Mercedes 320SLK and not the Chrysler Crossfire version (technical blogs seem to verify that the Chrysler unit is prone to fail also). Go figure....
I always enjoy watching Ivan diagnose car problems.
kind of ridiculous the shop didnt find that mouse nest while diagnosing an alternator. It seems this issue u found is common for dodge/chrysler. a friends 2003 dodge truck had this exact same issue except he could drive it for 30minutes before it died and have to wait for it to cool down. no codes were set. a shop replaced his fuel pump twice... I came in saw his distributor was totally burnt up figured it was that even though it made no sense and after seeing it happen I said crank sensor. that fixed it.
With a crossfire it's one of three things either the RCM relay control module (you have to resolder three little pins at the bottom), the crank position sensor in the front engine, or the position sensor in the rear of the motor not impossible to get to it's just a tight fit.
So many crossfires went prematurely to the junkyard, for some very simple issues. All of them in 2023 are easily corrected.
If you have any Crossfire SLK related questions please feel free to ask me. I'll do my best to answer everything promptly and intelligently.
I have one in my bay right now with an airbag light on. Can’t communicate with the airbag module. Any tips or tricks? I just read about trying to scan it as an SLK, so I’m gonna try that Monday.
@@brianmusick4363 definitely scan it under r170 SLK320, for some reason when you go to scan the car under Chrysler crossfire it just doesn't work
Ivan
Excellent video, analysis and diag - thank you!
Paul (in MA)
Seem to recall an issue with soy based license plates. Critters were eating them...
The RCM module is also known to fail, usually the PCM relay. But, I actually loss communication to the TCM relay of the RCM which did not allow the car to crank or shift out of park. The relay would click but not allow voltage across it. After applying voltage to the wires that supply the TCM the car would start and shift. FYI, with these cars some scanners will only see them if you manually look of a 2004 Mercedes’ SLK 320 16 pin. These are a diagnostic challenge!
You nailed it
I had occasionally stall / no restart, shuts off completely on T190 BOBCAT skid steer loader, like some one just disconnected main power or ground at the battery. Found almost broken (rubbed) constant 12V feed wire to the cab key ignition switch.
Thanks Ivan, great video as usual. Waiting for part 2. Cheers!
If the wires were shorted to something else, then reconnecting the sensor to the computer without disconnecting the computer side from the harness could bring down the signal. I wonder if there is a less destructive, easy way to test for this than cutting the wires on the computer side? This seems important to test for given the known mouse problem here.
Thank you for keeping this calm where us men could understand it. Could be the stroke I had, but two sentences into that last thing you wrote fried something up there.
no reason not to scope the wires at the sensor with the sensor unplugged since he's right there. then unplug the computer connection. also that scope should have a 1 khz test signal built in. you could unplug the computer and inject that in to each wire and check if the signal is different at the other end.
I think he rules out a wiring short when he went checked at the crank sensor.
WHY DIDNT THE OTHER SHOP CLEAN OUT THE MOUSE NEST ??
Ivan, once again you're leaving us in suspense! Looking forward to Part 2. Thanks for Sharing!
HMMMM, fuse box. Same problem as all other Chrysler Dodge & some Chevy's.
Shuts off HOT , comeback when ool & fires right up.
Dude you are very detailed love it!!!!!! Same exact with my Crossfire and I'm suspecting CAM/Crank sensor issue is using OEM or other aftermarket it seems like the HONDA scenario like the O2 sensors they like only certain manufacturers....blah, blah , blah good job on video for sure
Way, yonder way, over my head... but exceptional approach, massive knowledge base. Thanks for the video!
3:19 ..... wait WTF ..... a new alternator .... but didn't find the rat's nest .... some ' garage ' this is ! and just why would you add charge to the battery while the known nest is still there hiding possibly worse damaged wire ... HOW TO START A FIRE RIGHT THERE
YIKES!! There's a bunch of really knowledgable folks making comments here. It's quite dazzling. Can't live without the scope!
On the scope, that didn't look like a crank signal to me-- it just looked like electrical noise the harness was picking up. I'm not an auto mechanic, but I'd expect the crank sensor signal to look somewhat similar, perhaps, to the crank sensor signal, a clear digital signal. And I'm stunned that disconnecting the crank sensor set no DTC code at all (and that there was no code for it at the beginning, either). Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
I experienced the same thing with the car cutting off when heated up fully and it was the CAM sensor , a quick five minute fix and forty bucks !!
What a great advert for shop mechanics, NOT! Imagine taking your car for diagnosis and repair and the mechanic from this shop (who in mu opinion should be sacked immediately) Changes out and fits a new alternator to this car, without even opening the fuse box, where that huge mouse nest is sitting - Unbelievable, no wonder people hate these rip off clowns.
Old alternator was junk lol
Ivan. Granted. Why didn't the Technician check for other issues.
It's basic troubleshooting that you taught me. I've had my shares of owner installed wiring up grades. I said nope. I'm not opening Pandora's box today.
Why would you continue to run an engine with exposed copper. You are putting the vehicle at risk of a full-blown electrical fire. The exposed wires and rats nest needs to be eliminated first. Once the operational safety is addressed then you can continue troubleshooting.
Seems like that car was based on the Mercedes-Benz CLK. I am wanting to say that there was a CKL Kompressor that was a turbo model and the Crossfire had a turbo model as well. My neighbor had one; he didn't have it long until he got rid of it. Great video!
Benz SLK320
I've had my crossfire sense 2004 and love it.
It's had some extremally odd problems over the years.
So you have the best of BOTH worlds Chrysler and Mercedes JUNK in one vehicle!
Crank Sensors giving up when hot is a super common issues on 90s and 2000s Mercedes. Happens on every Gas Mercedes engine from a 4 cylinder to a supercharged v8 (never worked on a V12 lol).
I'm pretty sure it's a coil thing. when ignition coils on small engines start to go; they work fine untill the engine warms up. I've also seen it a couple times on fuel shutoff solenoids. engine gets to op temp and the solenoid goes open.
I would replace the battery with a new charged battery, but only connect during the CNK sensor replacement test. If the car starts and runs without stalling after achieving operating temperature, then I would have the shop disconnect the battery, and then charge the battery disconnected, so when you arrive you will have a charged battery to diagnose parasitic draw as a starting point.
Jump on any crossfire forum they could have told you what the problem most likely was in 2 mins
I had one for three months and the same problem I got rid of it best solution. They were renting out the majority of cars are on my enterprise they never change the oil filter
That's kind of stupid design in the software not to set a code a CKP cope when there's a problem why does the European CKP sensors not last as long as the American or Japanese ones
A crossbreed between two of the companies famous for electrical problems.
Look under the passenger foot well The TCM is located there and usually has ATF wicked up to it causing the CAN com Error
Why is this? Just askin
@@annathemaanderson4448 The wiring harness gets old , I'm not sure of the actual cause but the fix is a harness and I do believe the Solenoid assembly in the ATX.
I'm sure there is a TSB. The fix is easy and relatively cheap.
The same happens to the Benz model cant remember the class but is set up identical.
Amazing how willing the shop was to throw an alternator at it without testing, ur putting out one fire at a time😛
Alternator causing an electrical shut down....
당신은 대단합니다 👍
그러나 초보자에겐 영상이 길고 이해하기가 어렵네요
감사합니다 😅
This is the same engine I'm dealing with the in my CLK 320.
It's driving me insane.
i had this one car it was toyota highlander same thing when it get warm up it will stall costumer wait 30 mints and starts the car and car will start however the pcm set a cam crank code and then i got direction connect my scope and move the wire crank signal got messed up and stall it was some shop put the alternator and chew the wire for crank sensor and problem was fixed
Good one Ivan. Thanks!
I always found it interesting that a lot of Mercedes will set a ckp related code for slow cranking but not a flat out failed sensor.
The lack of tach reading during no start is a big red flag for me as to a diagnostic direction .
Right when you said mice nests, that raised a Red Flag.
Every Mercedes I owned crank position sensor is a very know common problem
Ah, more rogue air gaps and green crusties!
So the shop owner did check for nesting rodents. Or he didn't want to do the work when he saw it.
I have replaced many bad crank sensors with no codes fro
No codes, weird. How is that even possible.
Excellent video thnx for sharing
Starting fluid fix is insane and dangerous. Its for diesels
Making it look easy man!! Nice stuff!
crossfire and the M-B SLK are direct related
Bust out the scopes!
Great way to showcase how to follow instincts but still remain solid in your diagnostic method.
Yeah you learn to avoid rabbit holes and boost efficiency with experience :)
Replace the relay control module
The rodents were enjoying the buffet.
In crossfires these symptoms are usually the cps or bad solder joints in the rcm.
One of my customers just paid 1400 for a new rcm in his crossfire. I told him if he'd let me know he was bringing it to a dishonest shop first i could have resoldiered the joint for 250. Oh well live and learn for that guy. The shop he brought it too gave him every excuse in the book and had the car for a month.
WHY DONT YOU CLEAN OUT THE MOUSE NEST FIRST ?
I worked on one with a Benz motor fun? NOT
But the M112 and M113 engines are probably one of the best Mercedes engines there are. Those things are basically bulletproof.
@@tschuuuls486 I changed the alternator and had to Jack the motor up to get it out that being said if I have to remove more than 2 bolts it’s not fun 🤩
I've learned that after all these years, early 2000's cars the sensors start going bad. 9 time out of 10, crank and no-start/rough-start, it's crank/cam sensors. Rough idle with no code? New sparks and cleaning the MAF sensor aren't a bad place to start. People often overthink things, with a little digging and some basic DIY knowledge, you can usually fix it yourself at very low cost
could that parasitic draw be why they replaced the alternator,the theory being that draw would put extra work on alternator everyday the cars started especially when not started for days? my gf truck just went through two alternators both 3 months apart,i found 130ma draw from a fuse that was in a non designated spot that was keeping a relay on with key off,but after removing this fuse the draw went down to 12ma and no more alternators burning up i suspect the draw was the issue.
Yup especially with junk aftermarket alternators lol
Ivan...cheers to you. Im going on the road to tomorrow. To save my grand daughter. 3k to fix her car.
Got my tools. Clothes packed and parts all in a big box. Wish me luck. Its a 12 hour drive to my destination. Have a super fun day
Wow, Ivan the guy throwing all the wires all over and test, test and say don't trust scanner. Do scope!! Eurotrash car lol. Haha. Nice job trying to find the problem! I think when replacing the sensor and find the parasitic draw and the car will be fixed. Nice work and video!! Many thumbs up 👍 👌
Thanks Josh! Dumb car so you have to think for yourself haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics haha!!
I never trust my scanner. You might as well go to the Parts store Technicians and have them scan your codes and give you a Handy printed sheet. Tell you they diagnosis your car and the code says. You have a throttle body that is icing up at the middle of summer. Trust your scanner 😅😂
Thr same rule always applies..."you don't want to be csught in the Crossfire...." Chrysler euro trash comno..lol😎🇨🇦
smoked mouse nuts in the exhaust
Great diagnostic testing!
Super common on those Mercedes V6 engines. I've replaced two of those recently. Both stopped working after ~10 minutes of running.
*Another Chrysler, oh man*
The smoke would let you find the problem faster
I approve of this method. Even if got out of hand; car burn down? Problem fixed!
One of the worst decisions the Daimler Benz AG ever made was buying Chrysler.
My 2005 Caravan never sets a code when a cam or crank sensor fails. I check with my "scope on a rope" to find the issue. (crank once, cam 3 times.)
fix the damn wires ......
Having worked on dodges, ckp sensor sounds right. Warms up, internally shorts, ecm shuts down.
Had a Taurus that died a few times. First time we like an EMP hit it. Clock light even went out. Jump started and worked fine. Randomly did it a few more times. Battery a little less dead each time until it quit doing it. New battery and alternator didn’t seem to matter. Never figured it out. Fixed it self. Haunted!
Привет, Иван! Сколько времени, ты уже пользуешься сканером ProS ? Наверное, уже кончилось время бесплатных обновлений? Что знаешь, об обновлении после 2 бесплатных лет, или в ваших краях, не 2 года?
The problem at the start of of the video was no electrical activity at all, no horn, no lights, no crank. When you were diagnosing the car, you had crank, no start. These sound like quite different issues.
It's an SLK320
Good video master 😄