You're one funny SOB. This seems like a great channel that should have a lot more subs. The auto repair industry desperately needs more techs who understand proper diagnostics, and content like this can be an excellent educational resource for that. Great work 👍
Gabe, Ivan is one in a million diagnostician when it comes to finding a electrical problem in Trucks and autos even in construction type equipment such as lifts, and other equipment. I wouldn't necessarily characterize Ivan as an SOB he's way better than that!! He's worth more than his weight in GOLD. For good auto repair videos I might suggest checking out Eric O's channel too if you haven't seen it before it's (South Main Auto) give it a look.
The problem with the auto industry needing more techs that can diagnose, is the industry has to find a way to pay them a livable wage. Techs are leaving and young ones are not coming in to replace them, because the pay sucks compared to other blue collar jobs. What's left are incompetent parts changers, and this will continue to get worse as the EV pandemic spreads.
@@scrappy7571: Abandon the public and work exclusively on fleet vehicles; they PAY and only care about how fast you can get their vehicles making money again 😁👍.
@@phillully4472 I didn't mean SOB as an insult. I meant it more as a term of endearment, but I get your point. I have a tendency to come across a little over the top sometimes, but I'm working on it LOL And yes, I agree. Ivan appears to be a bit of a diamond in the rough.
The engineering design is perfect - for what their goals are. The goals are to minimize assembly steps and costs. Repair costs do not matter to engineering in the least, at least other than making sure the car makes it out of warranty.
check for fluid coming out of the connector pins at the transmission, I know it's not as common on the 6L80E as it was on the 4L60E and 4L80E, but I have seen it happen, causing cross pin shorts and giving bad CAN signals. 2 different vehicles, a 2010 GMC Yukon 5.3 and a 2010 GMC Yukon XL 6.2 (though the XL may have had a 6L90E, same basic connector)
That was weird! A network that's producing garbage returns to normal after unplugging and re-plugging a fuse and nothing works because another fuse is missing... Someone was playing with the fuses and forgot to plug one back. Add to that a TCM that is not accessible and, therefore, expensive. I know you will be doing something, because there's, at least, a Part 2 - can't wait :-)
there may some relay controller in the tcm being held on after a fault and by disconnecting the power/ground it does a reset until the fault happens again plus how many people have touched this before ivan
I'd like to know what goes through engineer's minds, putting the PCM with the engine where it is exposed to tremendous heat and the elements. Everyone knows electronics don't like heat and water. Back when they were in the cabin somewhere we didn't have PCM problems. This is just in general, seems every car has its PCM under the hood now.
ECM had no problems under the hood because all it did was drop the field in the coil firing the plug. Why did they combine it? Leave the ECM under the hood driving the engine, and put the PCM inside.
As always, great work Ivan. You are presenting a Master's level course in automotive electronics engineering in every episode. It's ironic and sad that you only have 151k subscribers while Scotty Kilmer has over 5.3M. I guess it's the same reason Gilligan's Island got more viewers than Masterpiece Theater.
First thing before dig deep diag is to dummy the crank relay in the main fuse block with a wire and verify the engine starter does crank the engine :) My 2007 Suburban has intermittent fuse block issues that cause this when cold. I love your videos as they really help me a lot when diaging electrical issues. Cranking control is via the BCM for start relay trigger.
Ivan that happen to me helping out a family member with there car repair Fuses were missing which made troubleshooting so much harder You should be teaching modern technicians on proper diagnosis techniques Your awesome
Hi Ivan. Don't ever stop showing us what you do . Do you ever think to yourself 'your not going to solve this"? Because you always figure it out in the end. There are so many fake diag techs out there they think it's just about connecting a scan tool and replacing whatever part the scan tool flags up. Your a true and honest diag
It might be a good idea to change your starting point checks. Always check the fusebox power for the engine computer power feed. Also the 5 volt power to the engine sensors. Keith is watching you (powers and grounds) ha ha :-D . i'm just winding you up ivan :-D.
A 12 year old GM transmission, better replace the whole transmission than just the TCM. The transmission shop we work with does tons of them. I program the modules for them
Got to love diagnosing something someone else has already looked at. I have one of these waiting for me next week a no crank no start no cluster no ign in a 2017 Chrysler 300. Hope you get the think tool sorted out.
Mercedes also went to an internal TCM with the 722.9 (7-speed) introduced around 2004, and actually that looks basically exactly like what people would call a Mercedes conductor plate. Probably fairly typical for the industry as transmissions get updated. I assume this Suburban has a 6L80, which GM introduced around 2006 (2007+ for GMT-900 trucks obviously, and not all of them, until later). Many solenoids and sensors are integrated into that unit so it does kind of make sense to put the TCM near all that stuff instead of having more external wiring. This way I presume the wiring out of the transmission is greatly simplified with mostly powers, grounds and CAN. Just be glad it ISN'T a 722.9 because Mercedes considers that a theft-targeted part. You can't just go buy one and install yourself. It requires some dealer magic to match the TCU with the vehicle (supposedly to deter transmission theft).
On all the 722.9s ive dealt with theres only 4 wires going in and out of the trans which for a 7 speed automatic is great. Imagine if it had wires for all 8 solenoids, pressure sensors, temperature sensors etc. On the 722.6 they had issues with trans fluid leaching up through the harness from a faulty seal on the conductor plate and ruining the TCM. I guess if you design the TCM to be fluid-proof, might as well save space and put it inside the transmission pan.
Personally -- I would have turned the key on and then short across the starter solenoid and just see if it starts or if it simply cranks-- that would tell you a lot. Second, In most ignition switches- when you turn it to "crank" it's a dual switch: it will turn the "on" switch off and temporarily cuts power from everything-- but it still has a secondary "on" fuse and relay that is only engaged in the 'crank position, which will ensure that the computer still has power during cranking- (which actually could explain why it's not setting any codes, because the crucial modules are not getting power during cranking-- maybe even including the PCM). I think that circuit could even possibly explain the bad CAN bus-- because if it's not working, when you turn it to the "crank position, it will lose power to key modules which it needs to start, which may corrupt them for a moment and need to be reset... I'm still barely half way through the video, so it will be interesting to see where this goes... I just watched "Watch wes work" troubleshoot an ignition, and that's how I learned about that secondary power switch in the ignition, that engages in the "Crank position. Good stuff. Edit: A missing fuse. yikes.. lol.. Also on the internal TCM, I think it's an ok idea, as long as they would put a side panel on the trans where it's super easy to open up and get to. I agree with you though -- bad execution on that one.
Nice diag. Ivan, it didn’t that long to track “the mystery” fuse! & not lying in fuse box. From a very long time garage owner,,,, there’s always a storey within a storey! The previous repair shop has it in his pocket ? We will see in part 2 , maybe get the whole story,not 1/2 ! LOL
I just ordered Thinktool Pros thanks to Ivans positive use of it, and then the same day this beached whale part 1 pops up. When his Thinktool got weird and was acting up, oh man.... my stomach was suddenly filled with stones 😆 Thank god it was not game over 😅
Worked for a manufacturer for 16 years… they’re designed from the start to generate repair dollars. They pay the dealers pennies for warranty repairs and bring in huge dollars after warranty. Shady but brilliant. Chrysler TIPM and oil cooler ringing any bells??? Lol
Okay Ivan we've seen enough of these green crusties northern car electronic problems, now we need to get you to move south so we can get the same kind of troubleshooting without it always being a corrosion issue hidden somewhere😊
Manufacturers do this to keep the average person from working on it. My shift control solenoids went out on my Nissan Frontier. I couldn't find a shop willing to replace the part, saying the labor would be more than the trucks value and that transmission work makes them nervous. I got desperate and did the work myself. It took 7 hours lol, but I saved a lot of money. A dealership quoted $1500.
Great diag so far .. learned to disconnect power sources to suspect modules test and reboot trick today very quick and keeps the terminating resistances in place another great piece of knowledge to have . I watch some auto transmission rebuild and diag videos and Richard from Amarillo always replaces the internal wiring harnesses if he suspects transmission oil has leaked into the electrical connections . Usually the ECM is external on most of the rebuilds he does no doubt older transmissions with shift solenoids and internal sensors and position switches . Looking forward to part 2 hoping the customer let's you do the whole repair .
I was given a Volkswagen Passat the previous owner, was trying to kill the bad cooling fan module, and just started pulling fuses randomly and not replacing them. It took me a while to finally figure out all the inherent problems that had with three missing, circuits.
The exotic ways manufacturers design or implement stuff really is a PIA at times. I hope it does work out for your client in the end. The fact there is a Part 2 tells that whatever the problem is, it did come back again and the transmission is coming out to be repaired or replaced. Having said that, gearbox's that last over 300,000km are generally on borrowed time if they are the original un-repaired gear box. The mileage of that car is nearly at 330,000Km, so one could argue that it is nearly up for a rebuild. Though if the only issue is the TCM & not mechanical, that would suck!
As soon as you said the TCM was inside the transmission, I knew the $ would be high, ugh. And that truck is in great shape, no way you'd not do the repair, it's worth way too much. Might be able to source a used trans and do a swap, but then possibly the same issue. At 200K-miles, I wonder how long those transmissions last? Be a shame to spend all that labour to have a mechanical trans failure not long down the road and have to redo.
The transmission controller being "fixed" when you pulled the fuse is the same as when the customer "fixed" the vehicle by disconnecting the battery. It will fail again.
Good morning Ivan. It's 4am in New Mexico. My dog needed her potty break. 😄 Then I could not go back to sleep. My family left to attend the annual 106 year old Shiprock Fair. Pow wow. Food. Vendors and get to see friends and family gather. I'm staying home. My ole feets are pretty sore and tired. Over the years I've attended this Fair. Lots of memories. If time allows. I may go tomorrow to visit my best friend. He is an artitst. Been friends for over 60 years now. Imagine that.😊
I worked on GM vehicles in the 80s when the ECMs were in the RH kick panel inside the car and they had more than their share of failures.I believe most modern PCMs, ECMs are very robust
Since removing & reinstalling the TCM fuse fixed the CANBUS, it could be that low voltage to the TCM was the problem; the physical act of removing & reinstalling the fuse lowered the resistance between the fuse and its socket. I've seen similar behavior before where ground connections were also marginal, thus increasing the impact of resistance at the fuse. If it were me, I'd spend 30 minutes and clean all the ground connections first, then see how things go.
If you see an almost 20 year old Ford truck for a really good price, it has VVT and it needs an entire timing overhaul. Maybe the light is off now but it won't be for long...
The issue with your thinktool is most likely a corrupted file for GM, manually delete the GM software and update it again, should take care of it. Had something similar on my launch.
From what I've read, this is happening to all of the tools with the Launch based software. Topdon was affected too. I've had my thinktool Pros hooked to my 98 Chevy K3500 recently and it read everything fine so maybe I got lucky with my GM software.
I thought it would be same as escalade issues. But slightly different scenario!! But tcm inside trans? First I've heard of it!! Wow. Nice fix with that missing fuse lol!! (Sorry of delay to comment, I'm on vacation!)
Great video. I've seen the CAN network ruined by bad TCMs all the time. It's so common. The price of the TCM assembly seems about right. But the labor time seems very high. $900 for three hours labor? You could also put a used TCM although you'd be gambling.
A bad ground or connection causing intermittent issues is what the original symptoms presented. The missing fuse points to a previous fiddler with no way to know what all got fiddled with.
Wow that was a big wrench thrown into the game that variable was crazy LOL did you ever hear back from the owner and did he say he was playing with fuses and perhaps he pulled the fuse to check it but got tied up or you know he was with his wife or significant other who was talking to him and he got sidetracked? That's the only way I can see that from happening and then the truck no starting so you just equate it to the problem at hand that he was having with the can bus. It's funny but I believe the truck would have ran immediately even with the canvas problems it may have ran rough or it may have had battery drain issues because modules weren't shutting down and such but I believe the truck would always started but since that fuse was missing there was no way for it to start but what's crazy like you said no codes were set nothing was set that's just wild to me. Like whenever a friend has a car whoever has a car and they're having problems with something not working or not starting that's the first thing I always check, check the fuses let's check the fuses, you know there's usually the two fuse boxes one inside the car and one under the hood and a lot of people don't know that either they think there's only the one fuse box. And usually maybe six out of 10 it's a fuse that's blown but you can replace the fuse and go on your way but that doesn't mean you fix the problem, because there was a reason why the fuse blew in the first place and sometimes you know the problems are so bad as soon as you insert a new fuse it blows because there's an open wire touching or something grounding out so it can always be a big puzzle but I really enjoy watching your videos Ivan. They always keep me on the edge of my seat and they always keep me entertained I'm always wondering what's going to happen next keep on coming and we'll keep liking sharing and getting more people to watch and getting your sub count up to where you deserve it ,(400k)
6L80 Transmissions have high torque converter failure rates, at 200k miles needs rebuilt trans and new tcm as the TCM lives in the tranny. Not worth just doing the tcm.
I got a good one for you. This shop gives me a call years ago. It was my first repair shop diag and I was nervous. The complaint was no brake lights and the customer was ticketed for it. I get down there and the cars torn apart with 2 techs looking at it. This was a older car, I want to say 99. First things first I try to pull wiring diagram but internet was down. They had a wiring diagram printed out but there was a variable. The customers car was a interceptor (police edition). At the top of the wiring diagram it said expect interceptor (or something like that)Anyways I asked them if they checked fuse 12 underdash. The tech said the holes where blank (no wiring to that fuse location). The only reason I personally didn't check is because he was already under the dash it was my first time and I didn't want to affend anyone. At this point im confused and asked atleast 3 times . Not knowing if the diagrams right I went up the street to get internet connection to pull the right vehicle. I called them and said just stick a fuse in the slot I dont care if you don't see slot or wires. He gave me a hard time and we went back and forth. I told him don't touch anything im coming back down and pulling the box because those wires have to be there. He calls me back 5 minutes later and said they found the problem. At first he wouldn't tell me what the fix was. He just kept avoiding the question. Finally he said he made a mistake and it did have a fuse hook up at that location but he just didn't see it. The crazy part is there was another diag guy before me that couldn't figure it out. I'm not joking they had 3 days in this car. They had the harness from the rear to the dash stripped. When I got there they where seconds away from cutting and bypassing the wires no BS. Me personally I love diagnostics and wiring cars. I truly love the challenge and learning new things.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol I learned that the hard way 😅. In all honesty I was really nervous and I didn't have alot of confidence at the time. For some reason alot of guys i talk to don't understand why using a led test light for testing powers and grounds isn't a good test. No BS I can remember atleast 5 times I've went to shops and found a bad ground that they tested with led. Thats the one test I get the most naysayers and its usually older techs. The one shop owner i proved it to and he still refused to believe it. It racked his brain replaced 1k in parts with no luck. He had a blown fuse and he was testing with a led. It was enough back feed to light the led on both sides of the fuse. After showing him he still uses leds for testing. I owe alot to Scannerdanner now that I think about it.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics same here. The good old load pro lol. I can't believe I actually bought that stupid sh#t, what a waste. When I started I had no clue and got suckered by the advertisement. Dan made it sound like it was better then a scope 😆. According to him you don't need anything but his book and the load probe, "it will find any electronically issue with a push of a button" it will even find lost car keys 😆🤣😂(made that last part up). I got suckered so bad, my hopes were high. No joke I still haven't used it for its intention use. The only reason its hooked to my multimeter is because a year ago my other leads broke and I had to get something for my money. In my opinion a must have for diagnostic is a descent scanner, incandescent test light, and a 4 channel scope. You could try and get away with a 2 channel but 4 is going to show alot more. I'm not trying to through Dan under the bus but I lost all respect when he got on TH-cam asking for money from his so called students. I wonder what the amp draw is on the loadpro.
Eric at SMA had car dealer bring in a crank/no start car. Eric gets out the scope, the break out box...........and tracks the problem to some smartass pulled a few fuses out, which knocked out canbus coms.
My 2008 did that bad ground negative cable right at battery took 1.5 years for me to narrow down super intermittent. It was so long between problem episodes. Just saying that was my problem.
40 seconds in... first thought is engine to chassis ground and all other grounds to inspect. Fuse box. Relays. Ignition. Tap starter see if it gets power.
I can do all that I'm in Vegas btw. Prices sting at 140 to start with gas is expensive so is time. Competitive prices available THX - Marcus and Terry Here in Vegas over 50 year of quality reprogramming and diagnostics!
Ivan I was thinking maybe a chewed wire from a rodent, but your check at the DTC connector show good circuits meaning no broken wires I believe. It's just like that ole' saying "To many chefs spoil the broth" well to many hands pulling stuff off and not putting them back again makes for a total cluster flub. But Ivan T. finds the solution once more.
Ivan, Able to Leap Tall Buildings with a single bound, Stronger than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, able to find missing fuses with little effort!! I am an electronics/computer /Engineer/Technician, and first and foremost... Check power, grounds and connections. Then diagnose. The printer don't work.... is it plugged in and cabled up?
I've been struggling with a very similar issue in my 2010 Suburban 2500 for nearly a year. Occasionally I'd get a no crank, with no PRNDL, and disconnecting/reconnecting the battery would fix it... for a little while. It kept getting more and more frequent. Also, voltage would be *slightly* low every time it occured. I replaced the battery, negative cable, cleaned all grounds, replaced the BCM. Still happened. I bought a clone Tech2 scanner and saw a lot of the same u-codes when the system would "crash". Alldata has a couple bulletins I followed to check for damaged wiring and to add dielectric grease to all connections that may be "fretting". I did find some damaged wires where the main harness goes over the Y-split on top of the engine (this fixed an evap code I was getting for the vent valve). At the same time, I replaced the alternator, just in case. I still got several u-codes on occasion, but one in particular kept popping up. Memory seat module, under the driver's seat. I replaced it a few weeks ago and *so far* it hasn't happened again. Playing the waiting game now.
Its those "never sets a code" moments that really make you scratch your brain Ivan. Go right back to the power distribution and grounds when in doubt, as you did.
I was thinking with a corrupted network, unplug each module one by one, and see if the corrupted packets stop, when they stop, zero in on that module circuitry. if unplugging none of the modules doesnt stop the corrupted data, zero in on the main computer module. focusing on powers, grounds , and crusties.
Trany Oil in the external connector can cause a problem. Replacing the wire harness in the pan can also solve the issue if it's open or shorted. If it's good, your diog is correct. Replace the TCM, or in this case, replace the vehicle!
Waiting for part 2. For now the CAN is working. Drive the vehicle and watch what happens. Are there contaminants in the trans fluid getting into the TCM? How's the comm line after the test drive? Did you have to call Ivan's towing service to get the vehicle back to your shop yard? On to part 2.
Sry ivan im a moron when it comes to what you do but the first thing I do is look st the fuse box. I think you will fix this vehicle no problem. Prolly your first choice tranny control. Thx for posting this video for all us car idiots.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I don't mean in bad way, sometimes we're in attack mode that we forget to check the simple things like fuses (there was no check engine light) I think if the fuse was in, it would've start up from the get-go, or maybe I'm overthinking now lol. I'm still learning, love your videos waiting on part 2
Rule #1 make sure it has all the fuses and that they are the correct ones and in the correct places and never assume that the owner/shop hasn't messed with it.
All I can say is "WOW"! Industrial control systems have gone thru similar changes, with networking supposedly reducing the amount of wiring and startup labor. The result was an acceptance of incidents where instruments would randomly lock up and networks shut down and restarted to "fix" them. Additionally, replacing instrumentation resulted in the need to investigate the compatibility of firmware revisions. I don't think any of the promises were kept, but it was certainly an example of smart marketing and maximizing profits on the part of the seller.
I kept thinking one of two things. Scanner said 0 volts for some things. Made me think bad fuse. I thought maybe bad ground or poor connection because when you turned it to start the lights went off on the instrument panel.
Looks like someone is testing you. 😂 That’s almost like the rigged cars TV stations take to repair shops to see if they are ripping people off. I assume the owner is kicking himself if he was the one that pulled the fuse and created the no crank.
Whenever I’m about to curse for something out of place,Ivan goes on and says “ it’s cool,let me check a diagram for this circuit.”
I'd be underneath making sure the starter was still there. 😁
Redneck anti-theft system!
You're one funny SOB. This seems like a great channel that should have a lot more subs. The auto repair industry desperately needs more techs who understand proper diagnostics, and content like this can be an excellent educational resource for that. Great work 👍
Thanks Gabe :)
Gabe, Ivan is one in a million diagnostician when it comes to finding a electrical problem in Trucks and autos even in construction type equipment such as lifts, and other equipment. I wouldn't necessarily characterize Ivan as an SOB
he's way better than that!! He's worth more than his weight in GOLD. For good auto repair videos I might suggest checking out Eric O's channel too if you haven't seen it before it's (South Main Auto) give it a look.
The problem with the auto industry needing more techs that can diagnose, is the industry has to find a way to pay them a livable wage. Techs are leaving and young ones are not coming in to replace them, because the pay sucks compared to other blue collar jobs. What's left are incompetent parts changers, and this will continue to get worse as the EV pandemic spreads.
@@scrappy7571: Abandon the public and work exclusively on fleet vehicles; they PAY and only care about how fast you can get their vehicles making money again 😁👍.
@@phillully4472 I didn't mean SOB as an insult. I meant it more as a term of endearment, but I get your point. I have a tendency to come across a little over the top sometimes, but I'm working on it LOL And yes, I agree. Ivan appears to be a bit of a diamond in the rough.
The engineering design is perfect - for what their goals are. The goals are to minimize assembly steps and costs. Repair costs do not matter to engineering in the least, at least other than making sure the car makes it out of warranty.
Great job Ivan. I have been there. this is why customer communication is key.
I’ve literally asked my customer if any fuses have been removed and they said no. Lo and behold they have removed the ignition fuse 😂😂😂
check for fluid coming out of the connector pins at the transmission, I know it's not as common on the 6L80E as it was on the 4L60E and 4L80E, but I have seen it happen, causing cross pin shorts and giving bad CAN signals. 2 different vehicles, a 2010 GMC Yukon 5.3 and a 2010 GMC Yukon XL 6.2 (though the XL may have had a 6L90E, same basic connector)
That was weird! A network that's producing garbage returns to normal after unplugging and re-plugging a fuse and nothing works because another fuse is missing... Someone was playing with the fuses and forgot to plug one back. Add to that a TCM that is not accessible and, therefore, expensive. I know you will be doing something, because there's, at least, a Part 2 - can't wait :-)
there may some relay controller in the tcm being held on after a fault and by disconnecting the power/ground it does a reset until the fault happens again plus how many people have touched this before ivan
@@jackiemay9471 Yep, it surely is no virgin 🙂
I'd like to know what goes through engineer's minds, putting the PCM with the engine where it is exposed to tremendous heat and the elements. Everyone knows electronics don't like heat and water. Back when they were in the cabin somewhere we didn't have PCM problems. This is just in general, seems every car has its PCM under the hood now.
ECM had no problems under the hood because all it did was drop the field in the coil firing the plug. Why did they combine it? Leave the ECM under the hood driving the engine, and put the PCM inside.
As always, great work Ivan. You are presenting a Master's level course in automotive electronics engineering in every episode. It's ironic and sad that you only have 151k subscribers while Scotty Kilmer has over 5.3M. I guess it's the same reason Gilligan's Island got more viewers than Masterpiece Theater.
Maybe I should start jumping out of trunks and trash cans for more views 😂
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 🤣🤣🤣
part of why isbecause Ivan does advanced troubleshooting which is too much for most people
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
Jump out of the trunk of a hybrid car that you then proceed to diagnose just troll Scotty lol.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics rev up your engines
First thing before dig deep diag is to dummy the crank relay in the main fuse block with a wire and verify the engine starter does crank the engine :) My 2007 Suburban has intermittent fuse block issues that cause this when cold. I love your videos as they really help me a lot when diaging electrical issues. Cranking control is via the BCM for start relay trigger.
Ivan that happen to me helping out a family member with there car repair
Fuses were missing which made troubleshooting so much harder
You should be teaching modern technicians on proper diagnosis techniques
Your awesome
I like the crickets in the background Nice touch
Hi Ivan. Don't ever stop showing us what you do . Do you ever think to yourself 'your not going to solve this"? Because you always figure it out in the end. There are so many fake diag techs out there they think it's just about connecting a scan tool and replacing whatever part the scan tool flags up. Your a true and honest diag
Oh one more thing. Always record by yourself. It shows a more personal close up. We see as you you see.
Absolutely amazing. A true diag.
It might be a good idea to change your starting point checks.
Always check the fusebox power for the engine computer power feed.
Also the 5 volt power to the engine sensors.
Keith is watching you (powers and grounds) ha ha :-D .
i'm just winding you up ivan :-D.
A 12 year old GM transmission, better replace the whole transmission than just the TCM. The transmission shop we work with does tons of them. I program the modules for them
Got to love diagnosing something someone else has already looked at. I have one of these waiting for me next week a no crank no start no cluster no ign in a 2017 Chrysler 300. Hope you get the think tool sorted out.
One more thing. Youve really inspired me to become a diag. A real one!!!
Mercedes also went to an internal TCM with the 722.9 (7-speed) introduced around 2004, and actually that looks basically exactly like what people would call a Mercedes conductor plate. Probably fairly typical for the industry as transmissions get updated. I assume this Suburban has a 6L80, which GM introduced around 2006 (2007+ for GMT-900 trucks obviously, and not all of them, until later). Many solenoids and sensors are integrated into that unit so it does kind of make sense to put the TCM near all that stuff instead of having more external wiring. This way I presume the wiring out of the transmission is greatly simplified with mostly powers, grounds and CAN. Just be glad it ISN'T a 722.9 because Mercedes considers that a theft-targeted part. You can't just go buy one and install yourself. It requires some dealer magic to match the TCU with the vehicle (supposedly to deter transmission theft).
On all the 722.9s ive dealt with theres only 4 wires going in and out of the trans which for a 7 speed automatic is great. Imagine if it had wires for all 8 solenoids, pressure sensors, temperature sensors etc. On the 722.6 they had issues with trans fluid leaching up through the harness from a faulty seal on the conductor plate and ruining the TCM. I guess if you design the TCM to be fluid-proof, might as well save space and put it inside the transmission pan.
@@JackS425 I was going to say the same thing about the 722.6. I also have a car with that.
That is pin 6 and 12 your leads are on. But I like the idea, quick and easy, and popping the fuse to disable modules rather than digging them out.
Personally -- I would have turned the key on and then short across the starter solenoid and just see if it starts or if it simply cranks-- that would tell you a lot. Second, In most ignition switches- when you turn it to "crank" it's a dual switch: it will turn the "on" switch off and temporarily cuts power from everything-- but it still has a secondary "on" fuse and relay that is only engaged in the 'crank position, which will ensure that the computer still has power during cranking- (which actually could explain why it's not setting any codes, because the crucial modules are not getting power during cranking-- maybe even including the PCM). I think that circuit could even possibly explain the bad CAN bus-- because if it's not working, when you turn it to the "crank position, it will lose power to key modules which it needs to start, which may corrupt them for a moment and need to be reset... I'm still barely half way through the video, so it will be interesting to see where this goes... I just watched "Watch wes work" troubleshoot an ignition, and that's how I learned about that secondary power switch in the ignition, that engages in the "Crank position. Good stuff.
Edit: A missing fuse. yikes.. lol.. Also on the internal TCM, I think it's an ok idea, as long as they would put a side panel on the trans where it's super easy to open up and get to. I agree with you though -- bad execution on that one.
Nice diag. Ivan, it didn’t that long to track “the mystery” fuse! & not lying in fuse box. From a very long time garage owner,,,, there’s always a storey within a storey! The previous repair shop has it in his pocket ? We will see in part 2 , maybe get the whole story,not 1/2 ! LOL
I didn’t realize you could check the can by pulling fuses to modules rather than totally disconnecting them completely.
I just ordered Thinktool Pros thanks to Ivans positive use of it, and then the same day this beached whale part 1 pops up. When his Thinktool got weird and was acting up, oh man.... my stomach was suddenly filled with stones 😆 Thank god it was not game over 😅
"The owner will fix it himself". Great kookamunga, protect us all from our parsimonious and foolish ways. Good mystery story. Thanks.
Excellent video!! Love videos on 07 to 13 Suburban’s!!!! Keep up the GREAT content!! 😊
Someone playing joke with you Bro,i like the way you troubleshoot.
Personally I'd hold off on the TCM unless there's strong evidence that it wasn't just a one-time glitch caused by someone playing with fuses.
Part 2 coming soon 😀
Worked for a manufacturer for 16 years… they’re designed from the start to generate repair dollars. They pay the dealers pennies for warranty repairs and bring in huge dollars after warranty. Shady but brilliant. Chrysler TIPM and oil cooler ringing any bells??? Lol
Okay Ivan we've seen enough of these green crusties northern car electronic problems, now we need to get you to move south so we can get the same kind of troubleshooting without it always being a corrosion issue hidden somewhere😊
Manufacturers do this to keep the average person from working on it. My shift control solenoids went out on my Nissan Frontier. I couldn't find a shop willing to replace the part, saying the labor would be more than the trucks value and that transmission work makes them nervous. I got desperate and did the work myself. It took 7 hours lol, but I saved a lot of money. A dealership quoted $1500.
Great diag so far .. learned to disconnect power sources to suspect modules test and reboot trick today very quick and keeps the terminating resistances in place another great piece of knowledge to have . I watch some auto transmission rebuild and diag videos and Richard from Amarillo always replaces the internal wiring harnesses if he suspects transmission oil has leaked into the electrical connections . Usually the ECM is external on most of the rebuilds he does no doubt older transmissions with shift solenoids and internal sensors and position switches . Looking forward to part 2 hoping the customer let's you do the whole repair .
Sorry I ment TCM not ECM .
I was given a Volkswagen Passat the previous owner, was trying to kill the bad cooling fan module, and just started pulling fuses randomly and not replacing them. It took me a while to finally figure out all the inherent problems that had with three missing, circuits.
The exotic ways manufacturers design or implement stuff really is a PIA at times. I hope it does work out for your client in the end. The fact there is a Part 2 tells that whatever the problem is, it did come back again and the transmission is coming out to be repaired or replaced. Having said that, gearbox's that last over 300,000km are generally on borrowed time if they are the original un-repaired gear box. The mileage of that car is nearly at 330,000Km, so one could argue that it is nearly up for a rebuild. Though if the only issue is the TCM & not mechanical, that would suck!
As soon as you said the TCM was inside the transmission, I knew the $ would be high, ugh. And that truck is in great shape, no way you'd not do the repair, it's worth way too much. Might be able to source a used trans and do a swap, but then possibly the same issue. At 200K-miles, I wonder how long those transmissions last? Be a shame to spend all that labour to have a mechanical trans failure not long down the road and have to redo.
Maybe they pulled the fuse to test that massive brain or yours. No kidding I am very impressed with what you do and how logical your approach is.
The transmission controller being "fixed" when you pulled the fuse is the same as when the customer "fixed" the vehicle by disconnecting the battery. It will fail again.
Love a good mystery on Saturday night:thanks for your good work!
Good morning Ivan. It's 4am in New Mexico. My dog needed her potty break. 😄
Then I could not go back to sleep.
My family left to attend the annual 106 year old Shiprock Fair. Pow wow. Food. Vendors and get to see friends and family gather.
I'm staying home. My ole feets are pretty sore and tired.
Over the years I've attended this Fair. Lots of memories.
If time allows. I may go tomorrow to visit my best friend. He is an artitst. Been friends for over 60 years now. Imagine that.😊
I worked on GM vehicles in the 80s when the ECMs were in the RH kick panel inside the car and they had more than their share of failures.I believe most modern PCMs, ECMs are very robust
Since removing & reinstalling the TCM fuse fixed the CANBUS, it could be that low voltage to the TCM was the problem; the physical act of removing & reinstalling the fuse lowered the resistance between the fuse and its socket. I've seen similar behavior before where ground connections were also marginal, thus increasing the impact of resistance at the fuse. If it were me, I'd spend 30 minutes and clean all the ground connections first, then see how things go.
I would want to electrically PROVE a poor ground before touching anything... Especially with intermittent problems 😉
If you see an almost 20 year old Ford truck for a really good price, it has VVT and it needs an entire timing overhaul. Maybe the light is off now but it won't be for long...
The issue with your thinktool is most likely a corrupted file for GM, manually delete the GM software and update it again, should take care of it. Had something similar on my launch.
From what I've read, this is happening to all of the tools with the Launch based software. Topdon was affected too. I've had my thinktool Pros hooked to my 98 Chevy K3500 recently and it read everything fine so maybe I got lucky with my GM software.
I thought it would be same as escalade issues. But slightly different scenario!! But tcm inside trans? First I've heard of it!! Wow. Nice fix with that missing fuse lol!! (Sorry of delay to comment, I'm on vacation!)
get a decade box, you can use it at the bob to return the 60ohm resistance while the termimating resistor is out of the circuit
Nice diag Ivan!
Good Job Ivan, We have Fuse Pixies in the UK too.
Great video. I've seen the CAN network ruined by bad TCMs all the time. It's so common. The price of the TCM assembly seems about right. But the labor time seems very high. $900 for three hours labor? You could also put a used TCM although you'd be gambling.
LOL @ designated Beached Whale parking spot under shaded 🌳 .... but second to the Ivan giggle.
I suggest next time the space shuttle breaks down ,they take it to this guy I'm sure he will fix it😮
A bad ground or connection causing intermittent issues is what the original symptoms presented. The missing fuse points to a previous fiddler with no way to know what all got fiddled with.
yeah agreed you have no idea what Nero did
yeah agreed you have no idea what Nero did lol
Wow that was a big wrench thrown into the game that variable was crazy LOL did you ever hear back from the owner and did he say he was playing with fuses and perhaps he pulled the fuse to check it but got tied up or you know he was with his wife or significant other who was talking to him and he got sidetracked? That's the only way I can see that from happening and then the truck no starting so you just equate it to the problem at hand that he was having with the can bus.
It's funny but I believe the truck would have ran immediately even with the canvas problems it may have ran rough or it may have had battery drain issues because modules weren't shutting down and such but I believe the truck would always started but since that fuse was missing there was no way for it to start but what's crazy like you said no codes were set nothing was set that's just wild to me.
Like whenever a friend has a car whoever has a car and they're having problems with something not working or not starting that's the first thing I always check, check the fuses let's check the fuses, you know there's usually the two fuse boxes one inside the car and one under the hood and a lot of people don't know that either they think there's only the one fuse box. And usually maybe six out of 10 it's a fuse that's blown but you can replace the fuse and go on your way but that doesn't mean you fix the problem, because there was a reason why the fuse blew in the first place and sometimes you know the problems are so bad as soon as you insert a new fuse it blows because there's an open wire touching or something grounding out so it can always be a big puzzle but I really enjoy watching your videos Ivan.
They always keep me on the edge of my seat and they always keep me entertained I'm always wondering what's going to happen next keep on coming and we'll keep liking sharing and getting more people to watch and getting your sub count up to where you deserve it ,(400k)
6L80 Transmissions have high torque converter failure rates, at 200k miles needs rebuilt trans and new tcm as the TCM lives in the tranny. Not worth just doing the tcm.
I got a good one for you. This shop gives me a call years ago. It was my first repair shop diag and I was nervous. The complaint was no brake lights and the customer was ticketed for it. I get down there and the cars torn apart with 2 techs looking at it. This was a older car, I want to say 99. First things first I try to pull wiring diagram but internet was down. They had a wiring diagram printed out but there was a variable. The customers car was a interceptor (police edition). At the top of the wiring diagram it said expect interceptor (or something like that)Anyways I asked them if they checked fuse 12 underdash. The tech said the holes where blank (no wiring to that fuse location). The only reason I personally didn't check is because he was already under the dash it was my first time and I didn't want to affend anyone. At this point im confused and asked atleast 3 times . Not knowing if the diagrams right I went up the street to get internet connection to pull the right vehicle. I called them and said just stick a fuse in the slot I dont care if you don't see slot or wires. He gave me a hard time and we went back and forth. I told him don't touch anything im coming back down and pulling the box because those wires have to be there. He calls me back 5 minutes later and said they found the problem. At first he wouldn't tell me what the fix was. He just kept avoiding the question. Finally he said he made a mistake and it did have a fuse hook up at that location but he just didn't see it. The crazy part is there was another diag guy before me that couldn't figure it out. I'm not joking they had 3 days in this car. They had the harness from the rear to the dash stripped. When I got there they where seconds away from cutting and bypassing the wires no BS. Me personally I love diagnostics and wiring cars. I truly love the challenge and learning new things.
Trust no one haha gotta check it yourself 😁
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol I learned that the hard way 😅. In all honesty I was really nervous and I didn't have alot of confidence at the time. For some reason alot of guys i talk to don't understand why using a led test light for testing powers and grounds isn't a good test. No BS I can remember atleast 5 times I've went to shops and found a bad ground that they tested with led. Thats the one test I get the most naysayers and its usually older techs. The one shop owner i proved it to and he still refused to believe it. It racked his brain replaced 1k in parts with no luck. He had a blown fuse and he was testing with a led. It was enough back feed to light the led on both sides of the fuse. After showing him he still uses leds for testing. I owe alot to Scannerdanner now that I think about it.
@@lovetolearn5253 Never used an LED test light...and never had a reason too lol! Same with PowerProbe or LoadPro...all gimmicks :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics same here. The good old load pro lol. I can't believe I actually bought that stupid sh#t, what a waste. When I started I had no clue and got suckered by the advertisement. Dan made it sound like it was better then a scope 😆. According to him you don't need anything but his book and the load probe, "it will find any electronically issue with a push of a button" it will even find lost car keys 😆🤣😂(made that last part up). I got suckered so bad, my hopes were high. No joke I still haven't used it for its intention use. The only reason its hooked to my multimeter is because a year ago my other leads broke and I had to get something for my money. In my opinion a must have for diagnostic is a descent scanner, incandescent test light, and a 4 channel scope. You could try and get away with a 2 channel but 4 is going to show alot more. I'm not trying to through Dan under the bus but I lost all respect when he got on TH-cam asking for money from his so called students. I wonder what the amp draw is on the loadpro.
@@lovetolearn5253 I think the LoadPro draws 500mA...WEAKSAUCE haha
Eric at SMA had car dealer bring in a crank/no start car. Eric gets out the scope, the break out box...........and tracks the problem to some smartass pulled a few fuses out, which knocked out canbus coms.
My 2008 did that bad ground negative cable right at battery took 1.5 years for me to narrow down super intermittent. It was so long between problem episodes. Just saying that was my problem.
What a nice weather over there.
40 seconds in... first thought is engine to chassis ground and all other grounds to inspect. Fuse box. Relays. Ignition. Tap starter see if it gets power.
It's actually not to hard to do that module in the transmission. More work than if it was outside of it. I agree with you on that.
I can do all that I'm in Vegas btw. Prices sting at 140 to start with gas is expensive so is time. Competitive prices available THX - Marcus and Terry Here in Vegas over 50 year of quality reprogramming and diagnostics!
I had this problem on a express van .it was the ground strap at the right front frame rail
I had the same issue with GM software on the ThinkTool Pros. Luckily it was a simple fix by downloading the software again!
Ivan I was thinking maybe a chewed wire from a rodent, but your check at the DTC connector show good circuits meaning no broken wires I believe. It's just like that ole' saying "To many chefs spoil the broth" well to many hands pulling stuff off and not putting them back again makes for a total cluster flub. But Ivan T. finds the solution once more.
Ivan, Able to Leap Tall Buildings with a single bound, Stronger than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, able to find missing fuses with little effort!!
I am an electronics/computer /Engineer/Technician, and first and foremost... Check power, grounds and connections. Then diagnose.
The printer don't work.... is it plugged in and cabled up?
I've been struggling with a very similar issue in my 2010 Suburban 2500 for nearly a year. Occasionally I'd get a no crank, with no PRNDL, and disconnecting/reconnecting the battery would fix it... for a little while. It kept getting more and more frequent. Also, voltage would be *slightly* low every time it occured. I replaced the battery, negative cable, cleaned all grounds, replaced the BCM. Still happened. I bought a clone Tech2 scanner and saw a lot of the same u-codes when the system would "crash". Alldata has a couple bulletins I followed to check for damaged wiring and to add dielectric grease to all connections that may be "fretting". I did find some damaged wires where the main harness goes over the Y-split on top of the engine (this fixed an evap code I was getting for the vent valve). At the same time, I replaced the alternator, just in case.
I still got several u-codes on occasion, but one in particular kept popping up. Memory seat module, under the driver's seat. I replaced it a few weeks ago and *so far* it hasn't happened again. Playing the waiting game now.
Its those "never sets a code" moments that really make you scratch your brain Ivan. Go right back to the power distribution and grounds when in doubt, as you did.
Matt always gets trolls on his channel that say, "you should have checked the fuses first, that's what I always say." lol
I was thinking with a corrupted network, unplug each module one by one, and see if the corrupted packets stop, when they stop, zero in on that module circuitry. if unplugging none of the modules doesnt stop the corrupted data, zero in on the main computer module. focusing on powers, grounds , and crusties.
Trany Oil in the external connector can cause a problem. Replacing the wire harness in the pan can also solve the issue if it's open or shorted. If it's good, your diog is correct. Replace the TCM, or in this case, replace the vehicle!
I had this happen to my thinktool also
Ivan is ghost month for car
Waiting for part 2.
For now the CAN is working. Drive the vehicle and watch what happens. Are there contaminants in the trans fluid getting into the TCM?
How's the comm line after the test drive?
Did you have to call Ivan's towing service to get the vehicle back to your shop yard?
On to part 2.
31:12 Because the program for car manufacturers is written by programmers. And not the engineers who developed the scheme in the control unit.
Sry ivan im a moron when it comes to what you do but the first thing I do is look st the fuse box. I think you will fix this vehicle no problem. Prolly your first choice tranny control. Thx for posting this video for all us car idiots.
Ivan- My ThinkTool Pros network topology screen did exactly the same thing. I had to ‘reset to factory’ and reload everything.
TCM module for $1500. You can buy rebuilt transmission from JEGGs with 5 year warranty for $1600.
I would have just put a starter solenoid on it and called it fixed 🤣
@ 27:07 check ground. If ground iappears O.K.... then power.
Run start circuitry test!
Ive came across missing fuses or places in wrong locations far too many times - especially when recoved by national recovery companies.
Just did this on my 07 and got a vcxnano to program it myself.
this is what you call overthinking the situation lol I did this so many times, very nice video like aslo.....
How is this "overthinking"? I mean it was two separate issues solved in an hour that no one else could figure out haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I don't mean in bad way, sometimes we're in attack mode that we forget to check the simple things like fuses (there was no check engine light) I think if the fuse was in, it would've start up from the get-go, or maybe I'm overthinking now lol. I'm still learning, love your videos waiting on part 2
34:58 The bean counters that make the decisions on suppliers don't care about the long game.
I hear Beasty boys " sabotage " in my mind .
Rule #1 make sure it has all the fuses and that they are the correct ones and in the correct places and never assume that the owner/shop hasn't messed with it.
My 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee also needs the solenoid, which lives inside the TCM just for the reverse lights that sucks!
I affectionately refer to the beached whale area as "DeathRow".........
Doing a night vigil to wait for the part 2 of this video.
You way over thought that one. When ign 1 showed 0 volts. Always check powers and grounds.
That's what I did 🤣
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics No worries. We all do it.
love the picture on your homescreen, lol! Missing fuse, who did this??
Go to the starter. See all is tight and good there
Noticed no ses light when you turn key on , and of course the 0V on ign 1 pid.
i hope we find out why the fuse was pulled and Ivan was not told about it... someone pulled that fuse.
Owner was messing with it and forgot to put it in lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thanks for the reply Ivan.
Thanks Ivan!
All I can say is "WOW"! Industrial control systems have gone thru similar changes, with networking supposedly reducing the amount of wiring and startup labor. The result was an acceptance of incidents where instruments would randomly lock up and networks shut down and restarted to "fix" them. Additionally, replacing instrumentation resulted in the need to investigate the compatibility of firmware revisions. I don't think any of the promises were kept, but it was certainly an example of smart marketing and maximizing profits on the part of the seller.
IAT sensor -40F 25:52 Ambient was 32f. Old data? Thought not. Have had cars not run when those sensors fail.
Dr House of diagnostics
I kept thinking one of two things. Scanner said 0 volts for some things. Made me think bad fuse. I thought maybe bad ground or poor connection because when you turned it to start the lights went off on the instrument panel.
I had this exact same issue and symptoms a few weeks ago and had a broken wire between the fusebox and pcm.
Someone has been messing with this thing. Maybe backwards jumper cables, lightning...very unusual. I'll just be patient and see what you find...
Looks like someone is testing you. 😂
That’s almost like the rigged cars TV stations take to repair shops to see if they are ripping people off.
I assume the owner is kicking himself if he was the one that pulled the fuse and created the no crank.
Ivan if its Italian and its auto electrical it is Mi magnetimorrelli
why not question the wires around the transmission ...like the Escalade ....
Great question! This network wasn't being pulled to ground like the Escalade 👍