@@dr.sbrule5817 It's very strange how most of the world isn't like this. It's like people have decided that they need to pretend, to put on a mask and use PR talk. I wish more people and companies were just REAL like this.
@@bfkgodEveryone has to have an opinion and when you don't know a ton of subject knowledge, you default to trying to make your opinions sound good rather than your rationale.
Man, GGG are quickly becoming one of my favorite studios. Just the sheer openness to talking about what wasnt working, what they're trying to do to fix it - design philosophies his really refreshing.
@@HArryvajonas They've talked about the challenges for a while and are even addressing certain difficulties which are nearly impossible to fix without a major redesign (the reason Path of Exile 2 exists). Certain parts of how their animations work and the way the people prefer to play PoE1 are all limitations to fixing melee. The solutions they are employing specifically circumvent those issues by completely redesigning the game from the ground up. Sometimes issues spawn because a lot of tiny little things add up. They talk about that directly in this video.
About sheer opennes: Ask them why don't they have technical support. Or why is their server infrastructure a literal trash and why are they silent about it when there are plenty of threads about it on the forums. if you get an answer, please put it here. I'll wait.
Ziggy seems like a natural at these. The line of questioning just felt so relaxed and flowed well. Like he was having a chat with friends. Would love to see more of this stuff.
definitely an interview where the one asking the questions is asking to listen to the answer rather than asking questions for the sake of wanting to ask a question.
As a melee lover this interview is awesome! Really nice discussion around what makes it hard to develop, I love the guys at GGG for not giving up on it and taking the easier road! Can't wait to see them cook even more!
@@SlitheringpeanutWhere is this specific brand of pessimism coming from? What did they personally do to hurt you? Because they seem to follow through on a lot of their promises from my perspective.
As a non melee lover…. I might want to try monk it’s no longer considered bad? I really wanted to do some hex mines occultist since I love the animations.. But my heart speeds up thinking about monk gameplay with friends
Man it is so refreshing to hear a dev team that very clearly understands the goal and vision they have for the game, how the player will experience that, and how to tweak what theyre doing to create the best player experience. Just the bit about how mobs have global cooldown skills in order to make blocking big attacks a worthwhile defense tactic shows their insight, a lesser team would simply adjust the dmg or defensive values to make having mobs with big attacks work, instead of thinking outside the box to preserve their philosophy without sacrificing player enjoyment
1h and shield + 2h for different skills is something I was contemplating and looking forward to trying in the game just recently, seeing it in footage here is great
@hewas9738 this is more directed at the fact that, outside of skill gem usage, each weapon in melee was just a different shade of stat stick. With unique defaults to each weapon and dual weild potential changes greatly. While a sword would slash, a rapier would thrust and be better for single target, a claymore or great axe would be great for cleaving hordes while a hammer slamming the ground to ignore monster evasion and having a bit of distance from your character.
@@NousagiBrat And that is a much better thing than the type of weapon you're wielding not mattering at all like in PoE1. Playing with a sword vs and axe wasn't different at all apart from some skill arbitrarily demanding certain weapon types.
The more I learn about PoE2 and the more I hear these two talk, the more I am looking forward to playing the game! Because I like what I hear and see about PoE2 I just bought my first 60 $ supporter pack. Doing great work GGG and you too Ziggy.
Interesting discussion about the default attack. I notice they mentioned the default attack is tied to the weapon, so in this case, they can make alternate default attacks for unique weapons to make them more interesting. As an example, a Unique Katana could have a default attack that makes your character cut through the enemy like a cool samurai quickdraw attack. I hope they realize they opened up something really good.
I realized I had the points from this video floating in my mind as I was playing Warrior. I kept thinking "this is bullshit" and decided to revisit the video just to make sure I wasn't making things up. Now I'm feeling hysterical because every time devs are saying something "we needed to make sure it does feel like shit" it does feel like shit in-game. They literally made sure to make melee as shit as possible and the best way to play melee is not to engage it as melee at all.
MELEE IS SO MUCH BETTER AT STUNNING BOSSES BUT IF A MAGE WITH YOU IN A PARTY GOOD LUCK BUILDING THE STUN BAR BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO FILL IT FOR TWO PLAYERS AND WHEN YOU ALMOST FILLED IT BOSS GOES UNTARGETABLE AND RESETS IT Rapidly_declining_mental_function.gif
I am not a POE fanboy but man these guys really care about the direction of the genre and I have really high expectations of them now and I want them to succeed... Gamers do your part and reward them when they deliver. Passion for the direction of the game and for a game company to be open to discussion like GGG does is very rare these days... The hype is building up to be the same as Ashes of Creation and Cyberpunk or the Diablo 4 remember the hype? This is how it feels right now and hopefuly they WILL deliver.. I already started supporting them myself with some of the supporter packs that by the way WILL be transfered on POE2 for free..
@user-zu5mb1pz2b What's your problem? God forbid this guy spends some money on a game worth spending money on. Your analogy doesn't make sense anyways, those 2 situations aren't comparable. City workers get paid with tax money, so extra random "tips" don't make sense. PoE is free, so buying supporter packs as a way to support development is much more rational.
@user-zu5mb1pz2b bro POE is a free to play game if you forgot about that. a person can completely finish the game without paying anything if he really wants to or pay like 10 bucks...
@@edwardblanc657 POE is one of the only games that have this amazing monetization option like, play the game if you like it and go to end game pay some tabs and you are fine.. like i played Black Desert and Lost Ark and I was asking myself, why should i play if I can just buy my progress.. POE does microtransactions even better than Riot Games.
Everything I see on PoE2 just gets me more and more hyped. Hearing these guys talk about it you know they really know their shit and care a whole lot about making a great successor to PoE. November cannot come fast enough.
I don’t even know what to play. I was sold on the mercenary bc it’s so different than the norm, now I seem to like monk, a class I would probably pick last in other games
Supportable basic attack is a wild change, but absolutely needed. Auto/Basic attacks are so often worthless in these types of games, and free support gem slots would make it amazing.
Honestly disagree. It throws off the game balance since built-in attacks and spells cost no mana. They even acknowledge this when they said people stopped using mana flasks. Seriously, why do this? Having a built-in skill for new players is nice but there’s no need to throw the whole game off because of it. Is it really that bad to make it so that support gems only work with skill gems?
@@billjohnson6863 this struck me too ,everything will have to be balanced around the 'default attack' to make it not completely useless or have everything revolve around it. that's a big downfall with many classes in d4 to me, you just spam attack to fill a bar to use your actual abilities. hard to say how it will turn out though, but it worries me a bit how naive and face-value focused the vocal majority of the community is. nothing new in gaming though, but still not helpful!
@@billjohnson6863 in poe 2 support gems don't do 50% more dmg. only about 10% more (about 30% more when conditions are meet ,and normal attack will have trouble meet those conditions). and a lot of support gems don't even add dmg
@@billjohnson6863 "Is it really that bad to have literally a core gameplay element be completely fucking useless?" Yes. Yes it is. They also acknowledged their plans for working on it, literally within a few sentences of the part you quoted. I'm not pretending it's going to be easy to balance, but if you don't give a good reason for melee characters to use their basic attacks, then they're just going to turn into short range casters. AGAIN. The whole issue with people not using mana flasks was because it was one of their first implementations of the system. It's not ready yet. Of course it's not going to be that bad on release.
@@genesises Yes, yes they will have to balance it like that. But this is a system they're adding onto an already existing combat system. The main issue games like D4 ran into, was that D4 was built from the ground up for the Generate and then Spend rotation. You didn't really get a choice if you wanted to use the basic attacks or not. The idea of this supported auto attack system is to give people a way to weave basic attacks into their playstyle in a way that doesn't feel like you're only doing it because you ran out of mana. Nobody is pretending it's going to be the sole fix of all the problems, or that there won't be hurdles to overcome, but OBJECTIVELY having an auto attack actually do ANYTHING is better than an auto attack only existing for the sake of having something you can do when you're out of mana. If it wasn't, they'd just fucking remove it altogether.
This is the most gameplay I've ever seen with the shield. Most videos I've seen of the warrior, they focused on the 2 handed Mace. I don't play melee often but from this discussion, I'd be up to play a sword-and-board style melee character. I kind of agree with Jonathan on push-back. It needs a little more umph when you block. Thanks for uploading this. Again really enjoy the Sword-and-board gameplay. In addition, it was nice to see you using the Sorceress' Ice Nova skill with your Monk. That would seem like a combo that shouldn't be missed. I know themonk has other ice attacks but Ice Nova looks like it fits better than Wave of Frost or other Monk ice skills. But that's the beauty of POE. You can use any skill as long as you have the stats for it.
What's so excellent about them being open about the challenges of balancing everything is that it gives the sense that even if things aren't totally balanced, they are giving it their best, and will figure it out with a patch down the road if need be. So far though it appears well conceived. Cant wait!
Another phenomenal interview. Jonathan's vision here is on point. Keep cooking. No hack/slack ARPG has this depth of thought on something like melee combat.
man... this feels like a soulslike philosophy regarding bosses. Status build up and even looks like 'guard counters' are a part of it. I'm down for it!
soulslike games are a good experience because they are one and done singleplayer games, turning your seasonal arpg into a soulslike, well, we will see how that goes.
what i love is when you ear them talking your understand how much effort and thought they put into it and they smile like it doesnt seems like they're afraid to say something and stuff (loonking toward D4 campfire stuff)
I actually like that now we can't portal during boss fights, but please put a well outside the boss arena, I don't want new strange habits like portaling for flasks before fights
But this also means that once you are in a boss room, you can't escape, which would spell doom for any hardcore lovers. There should be a way to flee the fight with the cost being that the fight resets.
@@Xalantor I disagree - the idea of disconnecting in hc to avoid gameplay being normalized is only because it was enabled in Poe 1 design. What if that didn't exist in Poe 2? Then hc players wouldn't have those expectations of disconnecting, thus not being normalized.
19:00 thats actually great, colors matter a lot when making split second decisions, also sound(Grubby from WC3 was commenting on this as WC3 Reforged has multiple sounds for the same units and they sound too similar, in classic WC3 every unit has an unique death sound and it helps identify what just happened)
Great to hear that they are still not afraid to take risks and do fundamental changes in order to give us and themselves a better experience! Also, look how good the active blocking is... bro... ❤
That defense change sounds awesome. No more needing melee black and spell block it is just block sounds way better. Wonder if this means suppression is removed or it will also do both as well.
It's really cool that they handcraft all those different play styles. I'm really interested what they do with the fast hitting dagger and claw styles and dual wielding characters.
Lol that point at @8:30 about how they had to change flasks because spamming auto attack + 5 life flasks became most efficient is so funny. That sounds exactly like something people would do because it's optimal but have zero fun while doing so
Listening to the GGG devs talk so openly and honestly about something they clearly care about deeply is such a joy… especially when compared to most other games.
Man I love the ACTUAL play-testing. They design their game, try to meta it out, then find a meta, then break the meta with game design to make int more engaging, uncover a new problem, repeat. I love GGG.
From the gameplay footage shown, holding up your shield to block while looks kind of cool will be absolutely slow and clunky to play. Part of what makes Souls like games fun is being rewarded for blocking, dodging and parrying at the perfect moment. Right now it looks like they are missing that part and focusing on making it "look" the part. As an example for shield you could add Retalition skills that trigger on perfect blocks like sending out an aoe shockwave or something.
How do you know he's a gentle man? I've never understood people using that word in that context. He could be torturing puppies in his spare time for all you know.
I once tried to do a build where while waiting for Earthquake to proc it's shockwave, I would trigger another slam, usually Earthshatter. It was an interesting concept of rotating between these two skills. It was honestly one of the most fun I've had playing the game because it was a melee combo that actually somewhat made sense. Glad to see POE2 moving towards more combo-oriented gameplay rather than a one-button does it all.
Exactly what I came here to say. That and when you're not blocking and you get it, your character goes into a semi-crouched slide animation while moving and interrupts the attack for that very brief moment. It'd feel better and gives incentive not to stand and just keep getting wacked without blocking or moving. That's not brutal, it just makes 100% sense and would feel great.
I come from the future and Poe 2's melee was also bad lol. These companies should take a note from Grim Dawn, their melee classes feel fantastic because each one solves the melee issues in its own way.
I would LOVE to work for GGG. Even just going through and changing values and tedious tweaking. It would be great to listen in on the meetings and design discussions. Especially for this game. Listening to Jonathan speak design is very insightful
"No more portaling out of boss fights..." Thank the gods!!! From designers who are so thoughtful and deliberate in everything they do I've been shocked since it was first showed off that they were implementing such a deflating mechanic. I'm thrilled to see it removed before... it would have inevitably been removed anyway.
Yea coming back to this after reaching rank 90 warrior and so much of it is just untrue. They said mace strike or any skill shouldn’t miss while leveling, at least half my attacks missed in the campaign they also said mace strike is supposed to be a filler move, it’s literally the only viable melee skill aside from hammer of the gods. Like why can’t stampede push mobs? Why are there no good movement skills? Mainly melee just isn’t fun slow and chunky you die fast and you don’t even have the best map clear OR boss damage
Accuracy changes are 🔥. It always felt bad missing with Slams. "Area of Effects"'s always hitting and miss chance increasing with range, are awesome, dynamic and sensible changes to PoE's Accuracy system.
I love the interviews, hyped for poe2 as much as anyone else. But the heavy focus on melee makes it so that every interview only talks about that. Would love to hear more about the javelins, crossbows, and skills associated with these weapons. About how they make sure the balancing for melee doesn't influence the balance of other archetypes' approaches to monster pack fights and bosses.
the thing is, melee=bad is like the D4=bad for PoE, so this is why the focus is so strong here. Everyone already expects ranged/spells/minions to be incredible
"But the heavy focus on melee makes it so that every interview only talks about that." Well, there is a reason for it and they even explained it in the interview. Melee combat faces a lot of different challenges than ranged combat, both when it comes to designing it and playing it. Ranged combat is just something very different and something that is "easier" to go about. Additionally, melee has been in a pretty bad state for years now in PoE, so making sure that the whole archetype of combat actually feels good in PoE 2 is hugely important.
Wait so if they removed portals from boss fights, and if they are still doing the whole "login back in the fight" if you logout, does that mean you'll have to kill the boss or die once you enter the boss fight? That will be amazing, can't wait for the high stakes in hardcore!
most likely you just pop up outside the boss entrance and have to re-do it from the top. maybe they've come up with something smart but making it not annoying for the player will be hard otherwise.
the basic attack being a free supportable skill might be pretty great for a builder-spender/combo based gameplay. For example the monk can stack attack speed on the basic attack and use it to set up the big combos. Having the default attack being actually useful is a big satisfaction component
Yeah, I'm thinking that's the way to make basic attack important without making other skills feel lame. Other skills for melee characters need to have downtime you're filling with basic attack unless you're going for a wacky melee AOE skill thing.
that is a great decision about defenses as it relates to spells vs attacks. Like Mark said, it's incredibly hard to know the difference between spells and attacks. I like that there's still a distinction like attacks coming from the ground vs coming from in front. Lot of really smart decisions going on.
welp now i know that im playing default attack monk on the release of the game. Thank you GGG hopefully they give unarmed some love then we really will be cooking with grease.
I think default attack will be one tool in a melee players arsenal that will be optimal in certain situations but not always. I wouldn't expect to base your whole playstyle around it. Although to play devils advocate I do like the look of playing sword and board blocking enemy attacks and default attacking them in their openings, and will likely start playing this way on either warrior or duelist. But I think the real nuance comes from learning how to effectively capitalize on stuns and freezes in melee with big attacks or combos.
I'm just gonna put this here: We'll see if they ACTUALLY fix it... There's ZERO proof right of how any exists post-campaign right now so I'm not convinced.
I just found this video and I noticed gameplay with a one hand axe and a shield that shine when blocks. I'm fucking sold on PoE II, it's amazing they delivered that kind of melee weapons and they are working as intented
I think accuracy mechanic has to go, at least for melee. It makes no sense. If they're so concerned about being immersive... Make melee characters whiff attacks with reduced damage as glancing blows instead
I don't understand how it makes no sense, and then you say they are so concerned about immersion, if it's for immersion, then it's because it makes sense...
My views on melee in PoE1 was always they have much more issues than just lackluster damage and having played exclusively melee builds in Settlers, this was just reinforced even more. PoE1 piles so many monsters with so many effects on the player that the simple need to close the distance puts you in so much more risk than a ranged character that can just stutter step at a screens distance. I know not all builds should be able to handle all content but I've put significantly more effort into my bleed Chieftain in SSF this league than many other characters previously and it still struggles so much more. It's just demoralizing and I will probably never play an actual melee build again that doesn't have offscreen capabilities.
@@genesises I've taken it to and completed T17's and some ubers. When everything lines up properly it hits about 10mil bleed dps and there are still lots of room for upgrades. Granted, it's kinda bottlenecked by phys weapon crafting which is much harder than most other things, but I've put half the level of effort into other characters before and performed twice as good.
wow.. what.. a complete revolution. no attack vs spell but evasion dosent work for attack from the ground/sky... and the global mobs cooldowns.. amazing ideas
I am very much looking forward to the return to form for PoE. I miss the deliberate play style from years ago before the attack and cast speeds got out of hand.
@@baraal_ the point is you said return to form. They are doing better than they ever had in every sense of the word. I think you were trying to say you are looking forward to them returning to a play style that you personally liked more. TLDR: you made it seem like they have not been doing well and you are looking forward to them succeeding again.
@@Hellzyeaa I think you’re trying to read between the lines when there’s nothing there. It seems like you got hung up on the first part of what I said and didn’t read the rest. I didn’t bring up levels of success. Many of the original devs have said they don’t like the current speed of the game, and what that forced the rest of the game into, this is old news. So yes, I’m looking forward to them getting another try at the more deliberate gameplay the first game was intended to be. They’re building PoE 2 with more control systems based off the lessons they’ve learned over more than a decade of iteration.
@@baraal_ return to form (idiomatic) A return to a former state of success or brilliance. They are more successful and brilliant than they ever have been. If they returned to form from years ago they wouldn’t be nearly as good as they are now. You tried taking my comment and making it into something it was not. My point as been they are in the best “form” as a company than they EVER have been. They are firing on all cylinders and have been increasing improving year over year. You diminish their progress by saying that.
This is really cool to watch the development philospohy. Reminds me of the Diablo 2 assassin who had charge up attacks and finishers. She was fun to play melee. This season was my first in POE and I'm playing melee. Slam felt nice but the bleed stuff I'm doing now doesn't feel melee. Looking forward to POE2 love these development videos
great interview, really interesting. i would love to see successfully defended attacks bounce off a shield (when equipped) -- whereby the attack animation is interrupted and both player and enemy react to the impact slightly.
This is actually so crazy how they reinvented the whole game multiple times over and just take their time. When they know they have a good idea they are not afraid to just overhaul everything to make it fit. I sincerely hope they are going to push this genre forward. It may not end up being the game for everyone (and that is great!) but I really do hope it will become the game all other ARPGs look to for genre defining innovation.
That's sad, the way Jonathan talked about not putting a "miss" text next to the monster because it would break immersion means they currently have no intent on putting damage numbers on the game. I was really hoping they'd at least consider putting it as an option to enable on the menu. I'd argue damage numbers is something that makes you more immersed in a game, not less. When you improve your gear or level up and the damage number increases, that acts as a feedback loop which connects the player with the character progression on a deeper, more precise level. Not to mention the inherently satisfying dynamics of seeing the damage values grow higher or popup more quickly as a result of making your character faster/stronger. It's both an information tool and a fun game feature. They could at least test it internally and see if people would oppose to it instead of not even considering it.
Damage numbers are confirmed but they won’t pop up over the monster, it’ll be on their health bar like elden ring does it. I don’t remember which one, but Jonathan confirmed it in one of his interviews. Might’ve been the one with josh strife hayes.
@@TheOriginalDuckley I suppose that would be fine for bosses on poe 2 as the health bar is fixed and noticeable but for regular monsters the bar is only visible while they're actively targeted so it doesn't do much when fighting weak monsters or packs of monsters; i'm sure you know but what i'm reffering to as damage numbers is exactly the system that you see in games like diablo, maplestory, ragnarok, mu online, grand chase, etc. It could be implemented as it were in those games but tastefully and contextually with poe 2's aesthetic but i guess it's not really a realistic ask with Jonathan running things, he does very good work but he has elitist views on game design, inflexibly prioritizing theoretical concepts of immersion over the emergent effects that game features can have on the experience of playing the game.
I really need damage numbers to see if any gear/skill choice i made is actually increasing my damage or not. Currently it's quite impossible to gauge if you've improved or not with the calculations being complicated and obtuse. I won't spend my time in PoB instead of playing the game.
@@Xalantor That's true, they're obviously trying to reach a wider audience with POE 2, they have every reason to want to make PoB obsolete, and that should include doing things like damage numbers in the game. There's nothing more immersion breaking than having to use a third party app to build/make sure your build is working effectively.
Range: safe, fast clear, fast Melee: close, artificially safe, slower I remember when they made hits "avoidable" in PoE. But once the map starts filling with VFX, and everything starts moving at mach 10, that all flies through the window. If you want melee to succeed, there will need to be some heavy asymetry at a fundamental level... Listening to this interview, I don't really hear any solutions, and I understand that. We use rifles rather than swords for a reason... Question: what if you have both a ranged and a melee character fighting the boss at once?
@@Keln02 They can't really change something so fundamental, really. It's just the way things are with melee vs ranged in a game such as this. Your rifle vs sword point highlights this perfectly. It cannot be perfectly balanced, unfortunately.
"But once the map starts filling with VFX, and everything starts moving at mach 10, that all flies through the window." The solution is to not have that happen. Which, surprisingly, seems to be what they're doing - PoE 2 looks to be a fundamentally slower, heavier game to make the gameplay actually matter instead of everything just devolving into hold rightclick aoe screenclear 100 enemies per second.
maaaan my fav thing about d2 were the death animations of the monsters if they can make some epic death animations in poe2 the fights will feel so real!!! Also maybe hire some ex blizz employee to make some next gen cinematics for lore as its the only thing im missing in poe right now
Melee is gonna be bad again, especially on a slower type of game like poe 2. It's nice they care about it, but it can never compete with other archetypes. Watching the video with the guy seriously and slowly fighting packs of white mobs hurts my soul.
why not just copy from a good 2d game like Hollow Knight ? why not just get rid of common mistakes like bosses with degen aura and AoE damage around them ? seriously, if a game contains boss that cannot be attacked in melee but can be ranged that's a bad gamedesign.
Part 2 is now up talking about Campaign, Exploration, Skills & Progression! th-cam.com/video/8GGhW8WGgig/w-d-xo.html
I love how talks with GGG don't feel like marketing.
It would feel that way if they weren't so open to discuss their thoughts and rationale. Love their openness and the insight it gives
@@dr.sbrule5817 It's very strange how most of the world isn't like this. It's like people have decided that they need to pretend, to put on a mask and use PR talk. I wish more people and companies were just REAL like this.
Mark and Jonathan are game designers talking about game design.
@@bfkgodEveryone has to have an opinion and when you don't know a ton of subject knowledge, you default to trying to make your opinions sound good rather than your rationale.
@@VileImpin i would say gamer talking about game becaud the chnace we have is our dev love and PLAY the damne game
Man, GGG are quickly becoming one of my favorite studios.
Just the sheer openness to talking about what wasnt working, what they're trying to do to fix it - design philosophies his really refreshing.
It only took them a decade to address melee.
@@HArryvajonas They've talked about the challenges for a while and are even addressing certain difficulties which are nearly impossible to fix without a major redesign (the reason Path of Exile 2 exists). Certain parts of how their animations work and the way the people prefer to play PoE1 are all limitations to fixing melee. The solutions they are employing specifically circumvent those issues by completely redesigning the game from the ground up. Sometimes issues spawn because a lot of tiny little things add up. They talk about that directly in this video.
@@HArryvajonasdid u not listen to what theu said kiddo ?
About sheer opennes:
Ask them why don't they have technical support. Or why is their server infrastructure a literal trash and why are they silent about it when there are plenty of threads about it on the forums. if you get an answer, please put it here. I'll wait.
They're really unique. Wish we had more studios like it
Ziggy seems like a natural at these. The line of questioning just felt so relaxed and flowed well. Like he was having a chat with friends. Would love to see more of this stuff.
years of experience.
so happy ziggy's doing these interviews, always a bunch of good questions asked and barely any interruptions to their answers
Yea the Josh interview and the talkitve tri interview were absolute dog water.
But not the question we all want to hear.
@@joshuahensley9395 yeah josh interview was trash, always interrupting jon, love ziggyd
definitely an interview where the one asking the questions is asking to listen to the answer rather than asking questions for the sake of wanting to ask a question.
As a melee lover this interview is awesome!
Really nice discussion around what makes it hard to develop, I love the guys at GGG for not giving up on it and taking the easier road!
Can't wait to see them cook even more!
They talk a good game, they rarely follow through.
@@SlitheringpeanutWhere is this specific brand of pessimism coming from? What did they personally do to hurt you? Because they seem to follow through on a lot of their promises from my perspective.
As a non melee lover…. I might want to try monk it’s no longer considered bad? I really wanted to do some hex mines occultist since I love the animations..
But my heart speeds up thinking about monk gameplay with friends
@@khrishppoe1 has been amazing experience for me
Man it is so refreshing to hear a dev team that very clearly understands the goal and vision they have for the game, how the player will experience that, and how to tweak what theyre doing to create the best player experience. Just the bit about how mobs have global cooldown skills in order to make blocking big attacks a worthwhile defense tactic shows their insight, a lesser team would simply adjust the dmg or defensive values to make having mobs with big attacks work, instead of thinking outside the box to preserve their philosophy without sacrificing player enjoyment
1h and shield + 2h for different skills is something I was contemplating and looking forward to trying in the game just recently, seeing it in footage here is great
support-able default attack means Weapon Type identity!!! yes!!, i love it
very cool indeed
Well there is already weapon type identity in the fact that you literally cannot use skills without the specific weapon for it.
@hewas9738 this is more directed at the fact that, outside of skill gem usage, each weapon in melee was just a different shade of stat stick. With unique defaults to each weapon and dual weild potential changes greatly. While a sword would slash, a rapier would thrust and be better for single target, a claymore or great axe would be great for cleaving hordes while a hammer slamming the ground to ignore monster evasion and having a bit of distance from your character.
@@Flourikum POE has been great at making diverse builds. That will just pigeonhole builds into certain weapons.
@@NousagiBrat And that is a much better thing than the type of weapon you're wielding not mattering at all like in PoE1. Playing with a sword vs and axe wasn't different at all apart from some skill arbitrarily demanding certain weapon types.
So happy with the change of no portals in boss fights! Love the confidence of these design choices.
Now get rid of logout macro completely
They already did. @@Thekalllllllll
@@Antiquated-Ether wtf? why? trade casuals always ruining everything for us HC players because they know we are way better than they will ever be
@@xXxpowerbagxXxYou're complaining about not being able to cheat death as a HC player. That's as weenie hut jr as it gets.
@@xXxpowerbagxXx Git Gud
The interviewer is good at his job. This also doesn’t feel staged like other bigger studios; it’s just a bunch of guys talking about game design.
The more I learn about PoE2 and the more I hear these two talk, the more I am looking forward to playing the game! Because I like what I hear and see about PoE2 I just bought my first 60 $ supporter pack. Doing great work GGG and you too Ziggy.
Interesting discussion about the default attack. I notice they mentioned the default attack is tied to the weapon, so in this case, they can make alternate default attacks for unique weapons to make them more interesting. As an example, a Unique Katana could have a default attack that makes your character cut through the enemy like a cool samurai quickdraw attack. I hope they realize they opened up something really good.
I think different weapon types already have different default attacks
@@Sindamsc They do but his point is unique weapons can override those defaults for fun things.
I realized I had the points from this video floating in my mind as I was playing Warrior. I kept thinking "this is bullshit" and decided to revisit the video just to make sure I wasn't making things up. Now I'm feeling hysterical because every time devs are saying something "we needed to make sure it does feel like shit" it does feel like shit in-game. They literally made sure to make melee as shit as possible and the best way to play melee is not to engage it as melee at all.
MELEE IS SO MUCH BETTER AT STUNNING BOSSES BUT IF A MAGE WITH YOU IN A PARTY GOOD LUCK BUILDING THE STUN BAR BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO FILL IT FOR TWO PLAYERS AND WHEN YOU ALMOST FILLED IT BOSS GOES UNTARGETABLE AND RESETS IT
Rapidly_declining_mental_function.gif
@@thefearkey I had an easier time stunning with my merc than I did with my warrior.
this. this so much. looking at all the top comments from 4 months ago praising these people and look how it actually turned out. i am bitter bro.
I am not a POE fanboy but man these guys really care about the direction of the genre and I have really high expectations of them now and I want them to succeed... Gamers do your part and reward them when they deliver. Passion for the direction of the game and for a game company to be open to discussion like GGG does is very rare these days... The hype is building up to be the same as Ashes of Creation and Cyberpunk or the Diablo 4 remember the hype? This is how it feels right now and hopefuly they WILL deliver.. I already started supporting them myself with some of the supporter packs that by the way WILL be transfered on POE2 for free..
@user-zu5mb1pz2b What's your problem? God forbid this guy spends some money on a game worth spending money on. Your analogy doesn't make sense anyways, those 2 situations aren't comparable. City workers get paid with tax money, so extra random "tips" don't make sense. PoE is free, so buying supporter packs as a way to support development is much more rational.
you guys sound like broads fawning over movie stars lmao
Yeah, the OPs comment is kinda too gushy gushy fan girl for me too. Probably the kind that freaks out at Taylor Swift concerts. @user-zu5mb1pz2b
@user-zu5mb1pz2b bro POE is a free to play game if you forgot about that. a person can completely finish the game without paying anything if he really wants to or pay like 10 bucks...
@@edwardblanc657 POE is one of the only games that have this amazing monetization option like, play the game if you like it and go to end game pay some tabs and you are fine.. like i played Black Desert and Lost Ark and I was asking myself, why should i play if I can just buy my progress.. POE does microtransactions even better than Riot Games.
Everything I see on PoE2 just gets me more and more hyped. Hearing these guys talk about it you know they really know their shit and care a whole lot about making a great successor to PoE. November cannot come fast enough.
I don’t even know what to play. I was sold on the mercenary bc it’s so different than the norm, now I seem to like monk, a class I would probably pick last in other games
Supportable basic attack is a wild change, but absolutely needed. Auto/Basic attacks are so often worthless in these types of games, and free support gem slots would make it amazing.
Honestly disagree. It throws off the game balance since built-in attacks and spells cost no mana. They even acknowledge this when they said people stopped using mana flasks.
Seriously, why do this? Having a built-in skill for new players is nice but there’s no need to throw the whole game off because of it. Is it really that bad to make it so that support gems only work with skill gems?
@@billjohnson6863 this struck me too ,everything will have to be balanced around the 'default attack' to make it not completely useless or have everything revolve around it. that's a big downfall with many classes in d4 to me, you just spam attack to fill a bar to use your actual abilities.
hard to say how it will turn out though, but it worries me a bit how naive and face-value focused the vocal majority of the community is. nothing new in gaming though, but still not helpful!
@@billjohnson6863 in poe 2 support gems don't do 50% more dmg. only about 10% more (about 30% more when conditions are meet ,and normal attack will have trouble meet those conditions). and a lot of support gems don't even add dmg
@@billjohnson6863 "Is it really that bad to have literally a core gameplay element be completely fucking useless?" Yes. Yes it is.
They also acknowledged their plans for working on it, literally within a few sentences of the part you quoted. I'm not pretending it's going to be easy to balance, but if you don't give a good reason for melee characters to use their basic attacks, then they're just going to turn into short range casters. AGAIN.
The whole issue with people not using mana flasks was because it was one of their first implementations of the system. It's not ready yet. Of course it's not going to be that bad on release.
@@genesises Yes, yes they will have to balance it like that. But this is a system they're adding onto an already existing combat system. The main issue games like D4 ran into, was that D4 was built from the ground up for the Generate and then Spend rotation. You didn't really get a choice if you wanted to use the basic attacks or not.
The idea of this supported auto attack system is to give people a way to weave basic attacks into their playstyle in a way that doesn't feel like you're only doing it because you ran out of mana.
Nobody is pretending it's going to be the sole fix of all the problems, or that there won't be hurdles to overcome, but OBJECTIVELY having an auto attack actually do ANYTHING is better than an auto attack only existing for the sake of having something you can do when you're out of mana. If it wasn't, they'd just fucking remove it altogether.
This is the most gameplay I've ever seen with the shield. Most videos I've seen of the warrior, they focused on the 2 handed Mace. I don't play melee often but from this discussion, I'd be up to play a sword-and-board style melee character.
I kind of agree with Jonathan on push-back. It needs a little more umph when you block.
Thanks for uploading this. Again really enjoy the Sword-and-board gameplay.
In addition, it was nice to see you using the Sorceress' Ice Nova skill with your Monk. That would seem like a combo that shouldn't be missed. I know themonk has other ice attacks but Ice Nova looks like it fits better than Wave of Frost or other Monk ice skills. But that's the beauty of POE. You can use any skill as long as you have the stats for it.
What's so excellent about them being open about the challenges of balancing everything is that it gives the sense that even if things aren't totally balanced, they are giving it their best, and will figure it out with a patch down the road if need be. So far though it appears well conceived. Cant wait!
Praying for the melee success in PoE2!
well, it's sh*t...
this video aged like milk because melee still stucks big stinky doodoo
"We removed the distinction between spells and attacks."
Woah, I had to double-take at that.
Another phenomenal interview. Jonathan's vision here is on point. Keep cooking. No hack/slack ARPG has this depth of thought on something like melee combat.
man... this feels like a soulslike philosophy regarding bosses. Status build up and even looks like 'guard counters' are a part of it. I'm down for it!
I really hope they add ripostes, or at least skills that can only be used on a staggered enemy. That would be sick
im on my knees for parrying with the duelist
soulslike games are a good experience because they are one and done singleplayer games, turning your seasonal arpg into a soulslike, well, we will see how that goes.
Im the exact opposite, this is so far from what i want from PoE. This could genuinely ruin the feel of the game for so many players
I dislike souls games, but I like what I'm seeing here
Man, this is a fantastic video. I love the design breakdown, and really emphasises how difficult game design as a skill can be.
what i love is when you ear them talking your understand how much effort and thought they put into it and they smile like it doesnt seems like they're afraid to say something and stuff (loonking toward D4 campfire stuff)
I actually like that now we can't portal during boss fights, but please put a well outside the boss arena, I don't want new strange habits like portaling for flasks before fights
Every boss has a checkpoint pole near them which refills your flask if i remember correctly.
But this also means that once you are in a boss room, you can't escape, which would spell doom for any hardcore lovers. There should be a way to flee the fight with the cost being that the fight resets.
@@Xalantor I'm 80% sure you can just log out and reset the instance.
Yea, you can just log out and boss is getting resetted.
@@Xalantor I disagree - the idea of disconnecting in hc to avoid gameplay being normalized is only because it was enabled in Poe 1 design. What if that didn't exist in Poe 2? Then hc players wouldn't have those expectations of disconnecting, thus not being normalized.
19:00 thats actually great, colors matter a lot when making split second decisions, also sound(Grubby from WC3 was commenting on this as WC3 Reforged has multiple sounds for the same units and they sound too similar, in classic WC3 every unit has an unique death sound and it helps identify what just happened)
update. PoE2 has the worst melee gameplay design out of every h&s. Every mechanic at its core is anti-melee.
the word comes in my mind looking at this is SATISFACTION, the gameplay just looks so satisfiying!
Great to hear that they are still not afraid to take risks and do fundamental changes in order to give us and themselves a better experience! Also, look how good the active blocking is... bro... ❤
thanks foe doing this interview dude, great video
That defense change sounds awesome. No more needing melee black and spell block it is just block sounds way better. Wonder if this means suppression is removed or it will also do both as well.
Last demo, they had both attack and spell suppression. Everything is still subject to change of course.
It's really cool that they handcraft all those different play styles. I'm really interested what they do with the fast hitting dagger and claw styles and dual wielding characters.
Lol that point at @8:30 about how they had to change flasks because spamming auto attack + 5 life flasks became most efficient is so funny. That sounds exactly like something people would do because it's optimal but have zero fun while doing so
Listening to the GGG devs talk so openly and honestly about something they clearly care about deeply is such a joy… especially when compared to most other games.
Listening in from the hospital, bet it is an amazing interview!!
Good luck Tri! Is it your first ankle biter?
Please leave the community
@@joshuahensley9395stop being toxic and gtfo
of our community
@@joshuahensley9395 lol I bet your're a miserable person to be around
@@joshuahensley9395 do that yourself
Man I love the ACTUAL play-testing. They design their game, try to meta it out, then find a meta, then break the meta with game design to make int more engaging, uncover a new problem, repeat. I love GGG.
From the gameplay footage shown, holding up your shield to block while looks kind of cool will be absolutely slow and clunky to play. Part of what makes Souls like games fun is being rewarded for blocking, dodging and parrying at the perfect moment. Right now it looks like they are missing that part and focusing on making it "look" the part. As an example for shield you could add Retalition skills that trigger on perfect blocks like sending out an aoe shockwave or something.
I like the shield on the back finally, ive been wanting to make a character with that style for so long now
shout out to Ziggy for being such a smart, gentle and well spoken man
How do you know he's a gentle man? I've never understood people using that word in that context. He could be torturing puppies in his spare time for all you know.
@@SlCKNESS_ It's in context of how he's behaving in regards to the interview, not a judgement call on his entire personality.
I once tried to do a build where while waiting for Earthquake to proc it's shockwave, I would trigger another slam, usually Earthshatter. It was an interesting concept of rotating between these two skills. It was honestly one of the most fun I've had playing the game because it was a melee combo that actually somewhat made sense.
Glad to see POE2 moving towards more combo-oriented gameplay rather than a one-button does it all.
Man a little animation to show resistance being made with the feet while being pushed would be so cool
Could even just be an effect like kicking up dirt or dust or whatever.
@@colbyboucher6391 yes maybe that's enough. It looks really unnatural the way it is in an otherwise seemingly perfect game
Exactly what I came here to say. That and when you're not blocking and you get it, your character goes into a semi-crouched slide animation while moving and interrupts the attack for that very brief moment. It'd feel better and gives incentive not to stand and just keep getting wacked without blocking or moving. That's not brutal, it just makes 100% sense and would feel great.
Jonathan is working so hard to say "melee" correctly. Good on him!
Why is melee so bad?
Proceeds to explain.
Doesn't fix it on the game.
I could listen to Jonathan talking about game design philosopy for ever and not get bored.
I come from the future and Poe 2's melee was also bad lol.
These companies should take a note from Grim Dawn, their melee classes feel fantastic because each one solves the melee issues in its own way.
I would LOVE to work for GGG. Even just going through and changing values and tedious tweaking. It would be great to listen in on the meetings and design discussions. Especially for this game. Listening to Jonathan speak design is very insightful
4:38 this is something i always wanted to do charge my melee attack and bonk boss with mace or long sword 👍
D2 has this little bit animation on block and dodge, good thing to see it in here
On my warrior i throw totems instead of engaging in melee combat and my monk is throwing lightning from his quarterstaff.....melee my ass
You guys are really raising the bar on this genre! Wow.
Update: Melee is still bad in POE2. Game literally punishes you for being melee.
I love these developer deep dives and even moreso when ZiggyD is the interviewer
"No more portaling out of boss fights..."
Thank the gods!!! From designers who are so thoughtful and deliberate in everything they do I've been shocked since it was first showed off that they were implementing such a deflating mechanic.
I'm thrilled to see it removed before... it would have inevitably been removed anyway.
What I love about POE 2 is that it scratches the itch I was looking for back when I played Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 1 and 2.
Yea coming back to this after reaching rank 90 warrior and so much of it is just untrue. They said mace strike or any skill shouldn’t miss while leveling, at least half my attacks missed in the campaign they also said mace strike is supposed to be a filler move, it’s literally the only viable melee skill aside from hammer of the gods. Like why can’t stampede push mobs? Why are there no good movement skills? Mainly melee just isn’t fun slow and chunky you die fast and you don’t even have the best map clear OR boss damage
Accuracy changes are 🔥. It always felt bad missing with Slams. "Area of Effects"'s always hitting and miss chance increasing with range, are awesome, dynamic and sensible changes to PoE's Accuracy system.
I love the interviews, hyped for poe2 as much as anyone else. But the heavy focus on melee makes it so that every interview only talks about that. Would love to hear more about the javelins, crossbows, and skills associated with these weapons. About how they make sure the balancing for melee doesn't influence the balance of other archetypes' approaches to monster pack fights and bosses.
the thing is, melee=bad is like the D4=bad for PoE, so this is why the focus is so strong here. Everyone already expects ranged/spells/minions to be incredible
I bet they're still figuring that out themselves.
"But the heavy focus on melee makes it so that every interview only talks about that."
Well, there is a reason for it and they even explained it in the interview. Melee combat faces a lot of different challenges than ranged combat, both when it comes to designing it and playing it. Ranged combat is just something very different and something that is "easier" to go about.
Additionally, melee has been in a pretty bad state for years now in PoE, so making sure that the whole archetype of combat actually feels good in PoE 2 is hugely important.
I love how the developer has that’s youthful vigor and passion for the game!
Wait so if they removed portals from boss fights, and if they are still doing the whole "login back in the fight" if you logout, does that mean you'll have to kill the boss or die once you enter the boss fight? That will be amazing, can't wait for the high stakes in hardcore!
most likely you just pop up outside the boss entrance and have to re-do it from the top. maybe they've come up with something smart but making it not annoying for the player will be hard otherwise.
You log back in at the exact spot you logged out, no cheating allowed anymore lol
@@TheOriginalDuckley hopefully this doesnt mean dc = death every time
Can't wait to find my favourite weapon and be able to make it viable. GGG are really winning me over with their openess and passion.
the basic attack being a free supportable skill might be pretty great for a builder-spender/combo based gameplay. For example the monk can stack attack speed on the basic attack and use it to set up the big combos. Having the default attack being actually useful is a big satisfaction component
Yeah, I'm thinking that's the way to make basic attack important without making other skills feel lame. Other skills for melee characters need to have downtime you're filling with basic attack unless you're going for a wacky melee AOE skill thing.
that is a great decision about defenses as it relates to spells vs attacks. Like Mark said, it's incredibly hard to know the difference between spells and attacks. I like that there's still a distinction like attacks coming from the ground vs coming from in front. Lot of really smart decisions going on.
This aged really badly, looking at melee chars in poe2.
welp now i know that im playing default attack monk on the release of the game. Thank you GGG hopefully they give unarmed some love then we really will be cooking with grease.
I think default attack will be one tool in a melee players arsenal that will be optimal in certain situations but not always. I wouldn't expect to base your whole playstyle around it. Although to play devils advocate I do like the look of playing sword and board blocking enemy attacks and default attacking them in their openings, and will likely start playing this way on either warrior or duelist. But I think the real nuance comes from learning how to effectively capitalize on stuns and freezes in melee with big attacks or combos.
Queue the "I KILLED ALL THE UBER BOSSES WITH JUST DEFAULT MELEE SKILL" youtube videos
GGG deserves all the money and success in the world.
I'm just gonna put this here:
We'll see if they ACTUALLY fix it...
There's ZERO proof right of how any exists post-campaign right now so I'm not convinced.
I just found this video and I noticed gameplay with a one hand axe and a shield that shine when blocks.
I'm fucking sold on PoE II, it's amazing they delivered that kind of melee weapons and they are working as intented
I think accuracy mechanic has to go, at least for melee. It makes no sense.
If they're so concerned about being immersive... Make melee characters whiff attacks with reduced damage as glancing blows instead
Makes people take that node chaotic inoculation 1 life. And those cant do critical strikes modes, i like it.
I don't understand how it makes no sense, and then you say they are so concerned about immersion, if it's for immersion, then it's because it makes sense...
total transparency, love it!
My views on melee in PoE1 was always they have much more issues than just lackluster damage and having played exclusively melee builds in Settlers, this was just reinforced even more. PoE1 piles so many monsters with so many effects on the player that the simple need to close the distance puts you in so much more risk than a ranged character that can just stutter step at a screens distance.
I know not all builds should be able to handle all content but I've put significantly more effort into my bleed Chieftain in SSF this league than many other characters previously and it still struggles so much more. It's just demoralizing and I will probably never play an actual melee build again that doesn't have offscreen capabilities.
Play Generals Cry , Feels Great and your Mirrage Warriors are just Tracking stuff around you
i might be wrong but sounds to me like you are playing a kinda bad build with unrealistic expectations for ssf.
@@genesises I've taken it to and completed T17's and some ubers. When everything lines up properly it hits about 10mil bleed dps and there are still lots of room for upgrades.
Granted, it's kinda bottlenecked by phys weapon crafting which is much harder than most other things, but I've put half the level of effort into other characters before and performed twice as good.
What a great interview.
FIXING MELEE
CHANGES EVERYTHING
IT'S OVER
THAT'S CRAZY
Jokes on us, Melee is still shit in POE 2.
True and real
Looks like they are wonderful people to work with on the project.
wow.. what.. a complete revolution. no attack vs spell but evasion dosent work for attack from the ground/sky... and the global mobs cooldowns.. amazing ideas
I love this team, The Art in game is so Fantasy.
I am very much looking forward to the return to form for PoE. I miss the deliberate play style from years ago before the attack and cast speeds got out of hand.
Return to form? They just had their most successful league ever....
@@Hellzyeaa well, not yet. Big launch numbers don’t necessarily mean most successful league. With that aside though, what was your point?
@@baraal_ the point is you said return to form. They are doing better than they ever had in every sense of the word. I think you were trying to say you are looking forward to them returning to a play style that you personally liked more. TLDR: you made it seem like they have not been doing well and you are looking forward to them succeeding again.
@@Hellzyeaa I think you’re trying to read between the lines when there’s nothing there. It seems like you got hung up on the first part of what I said and didn’t read the rest.
I didn’t bring up levels of success.
Many of the original devs have said they don’t like the current speed of the game, and what that forced the rest of the game into, this is old news.
So yes, I’m looking forward to them getting another try at the more deliberate gameplay the first game was intended to be. They’re building PoE 2 with more control systems based off the lessons they’ve learned over more than a decade of iteration.
@@baraal_ return to form (idiomatic) A return to a former state of success or brilliance. They are more successful and brilliant than they ever have been. If they returned to form from years ago they wouldn’t be nearly as good as they are now. You tried taking my comment and making it into something it was not. My point as been they are in the best “form” as a company than they EVER have been. They are firing on all cylinders and have been increasing improving year over year. You diminish their progress by saying that.
This is really cool to watch the development philospohy. Reminds me of the Diablo 2 assassin who had charge up attacks and finishers. She was fun to play melee. This season was my first in POE and I'm playing melee. Slam felt nice but the bleed stuff I'm doing now doesn't feel melee. Looking forward to POE2 love these development videos
this aged really bad
@@GDemarco I think the foundation is there. Warriors skill balance and available skills just needs a fair bit of work. Monks pretty lit it seems.
@@ZiggyDGamingCan confirm Monk is very good, except for the target locking part.
great interview, really interesting. i would love to see successfully defended attacks bounce off a shield (when equipped) -- whereby the attack animation is interrupted and both player and enemy react to the impact slightly.
No portal out of boss fights is a giga change, git gud!
This is actually so crazy how they reinvented the whole game multiple times over and just take their time. When they know they have a good idea they are not afraid to just overhaul everything to make it fit. I sincerely hope they are going to push this genre forward. It may not end up being the game for everyone (and that is great!) but I really do hope it will become the game all other ARPGs look to for genre defining innovation.
Ya guys melee isn't fixed and is utter garbage!
Thanks Ziggy, you're soo well spoken
And they didn't fix melee lmao
I really liked playing the Melee classes in lost ark, i bounced off being stuck waiting for updates for a very long time but the melee felt amazing.
19:06 Spell suppression gone
My thoughts as well
For the best imo!
@@ZiggyDGaming Good work
Finally. It fucking sucked.
finally monsters aren't balanced around players having 100% spell suppression
Awesome interview as always. STOOKED for poe2
That's sad, the way Jonathan talked about not putting a "miss" text next to the monster because it would break immersion means they currently have no intent on putting damage numbers on the game. I was really hoping they'd at least consider putting it as an option to enable on the menu. I'd argue damage numbers is something that makes you more immersed in a game, not less. When you improve your gear or level up and the damage number increases, that acts as a feedback loop which connects the player with the character progression on a deeper, more precise level. Not to mention the inherently satisfying dynamics of seeing the damage values grow higher or popup more quickly as a result of making your character faster/stronger. It's both an information tool and a fun game feature. They could at least test it internally and see if people would oppose to it instead of not even considering it.
Damage numbers are confirmed but they won’t pop up over the monster, it’ll be on their health bar like elden ring does it.
I don’t remember which one, but Jonathan confirmed it in one of his interviews. Might’ve been the one with josh strife hayes.
@@TheOriginalDuckley I suppose that would be fine for bosses on poe 2 as the health bar is fixed and noticeable but for regular monsters the bar is only visible while they're actively targeted so it doesn't do much when fighting weak monsters or packs of monsters; i'm sure you know but what i'm reffering to as damage numbers is exactly the system that you see in games like diablo, maplestory, ragnarok, mu online, grand chase, etc. It could be implemented as it were in those games but tastefully and contextually with poe 2's aesthetic but i guess it's not really a realistic ask with Jonathan running things, he does very good work but he has elitist views on game design, inflexibly prioritizing theoretical concepts of immersion over the emergent effects that game features can have on the experience of playing the game.
I really need damage numbers to see if any gear/skill choice i made is actually increasing my damage or not. Currently it's quite impossible to gauge if you've improved or not with the calculations being complicated and obtuse. I won't spend my time in PoB instead of playing the game.
@@Xalantor That's true, they're obviously trying to reach a wider audience with POE 2, they have every reason to want to make PoB obsolete, and that should include doing things like damage numbers in the game. There's nothing more immersion breaking than having to use a third party app to build/make sure your build is working effectively.
Well done Ziggy. Love this insight.
Range: safe, fast clear, fast
Melee: close, artificially safe, slower
I remember when they made hits "avoidable" in PoE. But once the map starts filling with VFX, and everything starts moving at mach 10, that all flies through the window.
If you want melee to succeed, there will need to be some heavy asymetry at a fundamental level...
Listening to this interview, I don't really hear any solutions, and I understand that. We use rifles rather than swords for a reason...
Question: what if you have both a ranged and a melee character fighting the boss at once?
Which is pretty much what they're creating based on this talk.
@@Wulfstans it's a design nightmare :')
(as they say)
@@Keln02 They can't really change something so fundamental, really. It's just the way things are with melee vs ranged in a game such as this. Your rifle vs sword point highlights this perfectly. It cannot be perfectly balanced, unfortunately.
@@Wulfstans if it was the game would be awfully boring. things would begin to normalize towards everything being same and doing the same dps.
"But once the map starts filling with VFX, and everything starts moving at mach 10, that all flies through the window."
The solution is to not have that happen.
Which, surprisingly, seems to be what they're doing - PoE 2 looks to be a fundamentally slower, heavier game to make the gameplay actually matter instead of everything just devolving into hold rightclick aoe screenclear 100 enemies per second.
maaaan my fav thing about d2 were the death animations of the monsters if they can make some epic death animations in poe2 the fights will feel so real!!!
Also maybe hire some ex blizz employee to make some next gen cinematics for lore as its the only thing im missing in poe right now
Melee is gonna be bad again, especially on a slower type of game like poe 2. It's nice they care about it, but it can never compete with other archetypes. Watching the video with the guy seriously and slowly fighting packs of white mobs hurts my soul.
Facetanking always was and will be the second best way to play any arpg (the first being clearing the boss before it finishes spawn animation).
why not just copy from a good 2d game like Hollow Knight ?
why not just get rid of common mistakes like bosses with degen aura and AoE damage around them ?
seriously, if a game contains boss that cannot be attacked in melee but can be ranged that's a bad gamedesign.
because 2D game and 3D game are fundamentally different?
How are 2d and 3d the same kiddo . Go play yoirbtrash hollow knight
@@DomonkasshuSDPoE is basically a 2D game.
@@lukkkasz323not really the camera is from bird view
@@dankmemes8254 All of the gameplay logic is in 2D, so it's unnecessary to be bothered by the third dimension.
Great interview!
watching that guy hold his shield up to block attacks does not look like a more fun experience to me but time will tell i guess.
Stay on poe one and quit crying. Waahh they didn't do something I like wahhh
Tbf blocking can't possibly be your only defensive option there is also dodges maybe even parry on release
You can't block all attacks, they literally explained it
Most AoE effects, stuff coming from above and below you will have to be dodged
@@xcodyv7585 you need to quit crying lol
@@xcodyv7585 Keep glazing them. They won't bang you bro.
If you happen to be there another time can you do a 5 mins interview with Chris to learn how his doing with his new take on the job? It'd be great 😁