Something you didn’t consider was the possibility that a Shaker made this piece for a customer that wanted a deep drawer at the top. It wasn’t that uncommon for Shakers to make custom (customer designed) pieces of furniture. I bring this up because my great aunt has an authentic Shaker made chest of drawers that is quite different from an average Shaker made piece. It was given to her by her great grandmother who was the person that commissioned it new. That’s one of the ways we know its authenticity, the other being the hand written bill of sale that her great grandmother insisted having. I guess she was like that about everything lol. When she passed they found boxes full of ledgers that she had recorded every penny she ever paid out and/or received lol. There was an entry for when she paid a boy .25cents for raking leaves lol. They were seriously interesting to look through. My great aunt kept them and is leaving them to me when her time comes. It’s interesting to see what people paid for things almost 200 years ago and what they were paid for labour and various items.
That is actually a WEALTH of historical knowledge that would be wonderful for an archivist to work with as a primary source. I hope that information is compiled by you or others who share an interest in the lived, common history of the times.
@@joshmonaco6170 technically he said it wasn’t made by a shaker but by a civil war draftsman that made it for a customer. So no he didn’t say that it was a shaker made piece
Not an expert on Shaker furniture? Find me a better one. I’m in absolute awe. Many TH-cam presenters search for words and ideas. Not this one. He engages the intellect and expands your horizons. This subscription is a new woodworking treasure for me. The Keno brothers combined into one generous teacher. Thank you!
These two videos are the best I’ve seen for ageing furniture. Even the wonderful Thomas Johnson hasn't gone into this level of explanation. Thank you very much for all the effort and research that obviously went into this video.
Dear Stumpy, I just saw your 2 videos on the Shaker Chest and I must say that they are excellent. I appreciate that whoever repaired the piece in the past made sure that his/her's repairs would not be mistaken for origina lwork. As the the size of the drawers in the cass, the Craftsperson who maxe the piece may have made this fof a specific location or person. This would have been a custom item. There is at least 1 example from the South Union Village in Kentucky with a similar spacing of the drawers.(See page 77, Example 147 in Robert Meader, Illustrated Guide to Skaker Furniture, 1972) Thank you again for all your work on behalf of us woodworkers. Sincerely David Butera
I haven't seen anyone give the anatomy and history of shaker furniture like this. Not even with any furniture really. It's outstanding James. I love gleaning info like this in my woodworking journey. Thanks. Appreciate your sharing!!
Gosh. For a while there, I thought I was watching the History Channel. It's so cool seeing how you used your historical knowledge to age this piece of furniture. I'd watch this all day long if you made a separate channel just doing this.
That large upper drawer is very common to American Empire, though the rest of this piece is Shaker in style. Putting the large drawer on top - in some cases overhanging the case - would differentiate a dresser from a server (to hold platters.) Very good video on the details. Nice work.
Stumpy, I have one that closely resembles this except it’s a little more hand made in some areas (like the dowel covers.) the drawers are also in the correct order! I’ve been trying to date it for years
Really appreciated your two part antique chest of drawers video. Thank you. I'm concerned you may have underrated the likelihood of its Shaker community authenticity. I'm guessing that your chest of drawers was produced by or for a Shaker elder. Many of your fans have strongly supported your observation that Shakers were willing sell to paying "sinners", and added that the Shakers were willing to give customers function variations over form. Shaker elders sometimes adjusted their own designs to honor function over form or or others did that for them. As a longtime Shaker fan, without furniture expertise, I offer these quotes from a Shaker furniture historian's book: "Making authentic Shaker furniture : with measured drawings of museum classics / John G. Shea. p. cm. Originally published as: The American Shakers and their furniture, with measured drawings of museum classics. New York : Van Nostrand Reinhold Co., 1971." "Shaker trestle tables ... the usual top dimensions were approximately ten feet by three feet. Shorter models were made for the two elders and two eldresses, who sat together at mealtimes." "The slant-lidded desk boxes were enlarged and mounted on legs to form stationary desks. Some of these were beautifully constructed with delicately tapered legs - apparently as special gifts from the craftsman to favored elders or eldresses." (Could this also explain your piece's legs?) "(Many of the elders were also skilled cabinetmakers, so they may have made their own desks.) Since sizes were seldom standardized, it would appear that these desks were custom-built to fit the physical requirements of the individuals for whom they were made." Anyhow, I wouldn't be too quick to rule out you cabinet as Shaker made. On the contrary, the careful attention to the center panel on it's back that the builder was building for themselves and/or an elder that would appreciate "Do your work as though you had a thousand years to live and as if you were to die tomorrow."
The Shakers' blanket chests often featured a large 'forehead', but they wouldn't have been this tall and the access would have been from a hinged top. Maybe a hybrid of sorts? Great info in here, thanks.
I enjoyed these two videos immensely. But I glanced down through the comments and see many talking about being educated by these. Now dad gum it, Stumpy did you go and educate me without me...well I guess that is the sign of a good teacher, when the student enjoys being educated and may not even realize all they learned at the time. I guess....you "Da Man!" Thanks, and keep it up.
James: Have you considered that the top drawer has been substituted for two smaller drawers? Have a look at the frame and see if there are any supports that were removed perhaps. Smaller drawers do not require a lot of support. It is an interesting piece and you have the skill to make it closer to a Shaker piece! Thanks for two really interesting videos.
Love Shaker furniture. Very rare, next to non existent I Australia but there is some of it. The father had a brilliant book on the stuff all torn down and rebuilt. Very interesting book. Apparently a lady of the Shaker community had something to do with the circular saw as we know it today...something to look into
Yes I’ve along with others in the comment section have seen the large top drawer. I believe we had one in our shop. Maybe a large bible box with bible was placed in there along with thickly folded blankets, towels, and bedding or a hat, boots, or junk drawer to place candle’s, candle holders for heading to the out house late at night. Anything they wanted to keep out of sight as they didn’t like clutter. I would imagine having a large drawer on top could assist in less bending over for the heaviest or bulkiest items especially for older injured men and women who can’t keep bending down every night and then every morning to fold and put away a blanket, towel, or even pillows. Remember they lived extremely plain lifestyles, I’m sure beds had to look perfect (cleanliness next to godliness). It may have even been a guest drawer, or for a grandparent that lived at the same home who could have a large top drawer as not to bend? Or maybe it served a purpose for those that were not shakers.
Stumpy, I have a Ky. chest almost identical to the one you illustrate. The drawers are 6, 7, 8 and 10 ". Legs are nearly identical. Drawer bottoms are not one board but are planed in a similar manor. Locks are also are similar but with a small maple inlay around key hole. Only significant difference, is that my trop drawer has a forward offset and a half turned column aside the other drawer ends. I would almost bet they were made by the same craftsman.. The only other history I have is that it was bought by my mother from an antique dealer in the 1920-1930 range. His name was John Gault near Walton, Ky. He restored the drawer runners and the finish. I am a woodworker 96 years old and still making sawdust. Jack Hughes
Good education in this video. As a die maker I've often wandered about the history of the trade. Now we have CNC programmed electric discard wire machines to cut our extreme punch and die sections plus grinders that run on ball ways and easy to use diamond profile wheel dressers. but seeing antique screws and thinking about the machines and even the sub par steels they had to make the tooling. I would love to see a,set of dies that cut the old screws. It had to be like seeing magic to the poor soel who was filing threads to see a strip of wire being cut , stamped head, and rolling the treads from a strike. Even the old cam driven screw machines had to be awesome in their day. As a kid I've seen one run just because it was set to run a bolt that was still being used but they had tape reading NC lathes at that time. I get wound up over mechanical history and thoughts run away.
Have you seen a somewhat- recent handheld CNC called SHAPR? It uses similar tape you apply for navigation. I do have mixed feelings about technology replacing 'talent' however. Cheers
I can quibble about your arguments but in the end you reached the right conclusion. Shaker craftsmen were aware that their designs were being copied contemporaneously but small time and large manufacturers. Even today, much of shaker design's popularity is the apparent ease that hobbyist woodworkers and Bostonian accented carpenters can replicate the pieces with powertools. It's the subtle aspects of construction that set the authentic pieces apart. To wit, it looks Shaker enough to satisfy a customer and that's the nature of the marketplace.
As crazy as this may sound I've heard of shaker furniture before But had no idea that the shakers were all gone and that the furniture was valuable and so desirable Thank you for such an interesting and educational video
I was just looking through "Shop Drawings of Shaker Furniture and Woodenware Vol. 3" by Ejner Handberg and on Page 24 there is a chest of drawers similar to yours. The legs are different but the drawer size and layout are very close to yours. Who knew?
+Arky Trash - Handberg made his drawings from Shaker pieces that made their way into his shop over the years for repairs. He did not usually know the exact origin of the piece or if it was Shaker-made or made by another cabinet maker in the Shaker style.
This analysis was really well done. You've got me hooked and interested in dating furniture. Any recommendations for learning more on this topic ? -Todd
Really excellent two part series. I think it would have been interesting to have Shaker expert review the piece and add a some commentary. That is not to say the host wasn't a near expert himself and very credible, I just thought a Shaker expert might have been able to add some additional insights.
Great presentation. Could the parallel marks on the bottom of the drawer be from scuffing as the runners started to wear away and the bottom sagged onto a cross rail? Or, are we not seeing more parallel marks in the video other than the obvious lighter ones?
In regards to the strange configuration of drawer size, I have Amish relatives who all have dressers like this. The deep top drawer is for the large outer bonnet. It's function over form.
I agree, a Shaker craftsman would make an 'ugly, illogical' arrangement like this to order for a client; for this client it would be function trumping form (namely storing light fragile things in a top drawer).
Thank you for this fascinating and thoughtful talk. When I watched the first video I wondered whether the the top drawer front was in fact a fold-down writing or brushing slide but this idea seems to be wrong. I didn't know about the DIY screw slots; is that why Americans call them "flat head screws"?
I can only imagine how well the date would go since all you would be talking about was whether or not your date's chest was original. Not to mention the quality of the screws...
I have a piece at home that is virtually identical to this one. The only differences are minor, such as pattern on the leg bottoms is slightly different, no brass perimeter on the key holes for each drawer, etc. The overall size, drawer size and arrangement, half blind dovetailed drawers and all that are identical. Seems like this is a bit more than just a one-off piece. Anyone else know of similar pieces?
Yes I’ve along with others in the comment section have seen the large top drawer. I believe we had one in our shop. Maybe a large bible box with bible was placed in there along with thickly folded blankets, towels, and bedding or a hat, boots, or junk drawer to place candle’s, candle holders for heading to the out house late at night. Anything they wanted to keep out of sight as they didn’t like clutter. I would imagine having a large drawer on top could assist in less bending over for the heaviest or bulkiest items especially for older injured men and women who can’t keep bending down every night and then every morning to fold and put away a blanket, towel, or even pillows. Remember they lived extremely plain lifestyles, I’m sure beds had to look perfect (cleanliness next to godliness). It may have even been a guest drawer, or for a grandparent that lived at the same home who could have a large top drawer as not to bend? Or maybe it served a purpose for those that were not shakers.
Man! I'm somewhat impressed with this video of yours. So, you're really trying out for a position on the Antiques Roadshow staff right? Nice work! Just a note, my friend said he thought most Shaker furniture used or had square legs and not so much as those turned on a lathe. What say you? Thanks for the informative video!
+woodstoney Tapered rectangular legs are a hallmark of Shaker furniture, but they also made many pieces with turned legs. In fact, the side by side comparison shown toward the end of the video features an authenticated shaker chest of drawers with a very similar leg profile. But ours is to unrefined to be a true Shaker design, in my opinion.
don't know if you read from old vids... I have an old piece that looks shaker... at first I thought it was but, now maybe not??? maybe so??? definitely hand crafted dovetails, bottoms where chisel was wider than angles.... and single board drawer bottoms.. but biggest doubt now comes from the bungs used.. obviously to hide screws. looks more like a hand crafted piece by a good amateur of the era, maybe not shaker like yours. but you definitely gave some good instructions on the matter........
At first glance, I expected that the top would be hinged to open so you could access that top drawer from the top. I've seen pictures of some transitional Shaker chests/dressers that have hinged tops and several drawers. They might make a good changing table for a baby nowadays.
I recently acquired a dresser that I have been refinishing and I believe it to be quite old based on your video, perhaps Shaker. One thing I noticed is the drawer knobs are held on with wooden screws or dowels of some sort, not metal screws. What do you make of that? There is also some scrolled handwriting on the back of one drawer, that I cannot read. Was it common to do that? Thank you for the wonderful video.
Prepperjon below mentioned costs/inflation. Think of the hours that went into this chest of drawers. Did the maker get the value of his labor? Since they did, that makes that economy hard for us to understand; except, wait a minute! That chest lasted all this time and will probably last just as long again. None of the owners had to replace it at IKEA or Wal-Mart, did they? Bet this chest was bought for cash or, maybe, barter - but definitely not credit. Or did those craftsmen make wooden credit cards with floating panels and tongue-and-groove -- oh, never mind. Great video!
Any idea whether the circular saw was invented by a Sister Tabitha? Also, because there were once so many Shaker communities it seems likely that not all had true masters at work in the wood shop.
At it's peak there were only 19 shaker villages. As a sect that applied themselves heart, body and soul to their work, it is reasonable that there were at least 19 highly skilled woodworkers among them.
Stump. is it possible that at some point, the top drawer was added to replace the two smaller drawers that would have been the classic hallmark configuration?
I just purchased a shaker cupboard and would like to send you pictures of what you think of this cupboard as if it is really a shaker cupboard or built as a style of shaker. Can I send you pics for your help?
Somehow I really like the big drawer on the top, makes it unique. I don't agree its out of proportion but maybe the shakers would have made it different...
I like your VDO. I don't understand much about the antique stuffs but I like to hear it some time to know more about it. This drawer how much you got or how much you can sell it? Thanks
although it seems a little unpractical to see that large drawer, as a young boy I remember seeing this particular design in an old town called Maywood. I remember the women used to keep white linens in the top such as cloth napkins and tablecloths only. a piece like this wasn't used as a dresser it was used offset in a corner near the dining room. Just a thought
No doubt you looked to see if that large top drawer was originally two drawers? Maybe when the piece was refinished they made the large top drawer from original parts. If they did I imagine there would be evidence [nail holes for example].
I am guessing this is the 1st chest of drawers of this style I've ever seen. At least the first that has been examined to this degree. You have pointed out some very interesting facts such as no veneer from Shaker style work. What, if you don't mind me asking did this cost from the dealer you purchased this from? I've seen some things such as this that have been restored to the point of loosing all it's historic value and thus un-recognizable as a true period piece though it claimed to be. It does look to be a true find and you are lucky to have gotten it.
what if the repair man was too lazy to replace 2 thinner drawers, and just shovelled a single big drawer to fill the gap? maybe there are some marks indicating there was once a divider or rails for the 2 thinner drawers?
@@StumpyNubs Thank you, I have a secretary desk left to me by my parents, I know it's from the 20's-30's. Possibly it was my mother's parents first... We are down sizing and I am trying to come up with a fair price...by the way, I love your You Tubes!!!
@@kimmirobison978 I wouldn't consider the Maddox prices to be a guide unless yours is also made my hand by a well-known maker. I'd look for some antique auction listings online to get an idea.
Something you didn’t consider was the possibility that a Shaker made this piece for a customer that wanted a deep drawer at the top. It wasn’t that uncommon for Shakers to make custom (customer designed) pieces of furniture. I bring this up because my great aunt has an authentic Shaker made chest of drawers that is quite different from an average Shaker made piece. It was given to her by her great grandmother who was the person that commissioned it new. That’s one of the ways we know its authenticity, the other being the hand written bill of sale that her great grandmother insisted having. I guess she was like that about everything lol. When she passed they found boxes full of ledgers that she had recorded every penny she ever paid out and/or received lol. There was an entry for when she paid a boy .25cents for raking leaves lol. They were seriously interesting to look through. My great aunt kept them and is leaving them to me when her time comes. It’s interesting to see what people paid for things almost 200 years ago and what they were paid for labour and various items.
That is actually a WEALTH of historical knowledge that would be wonderful for an archivist to work with as a primary source. I hope that information is compiled by you or others who share an interest in the lived, common history of the times.
What was unique about your great grandmother’s chest of drawers she requested?
He actually suggests that exact possibility at 12:20
@@joshmonaco6170 technically he said it wasn’t made by a shaker but by a civil war draftsman that made it for a customer. So no he didn’t say that it was a shaker made piece
I have a piece that is very similar to this one. What looks like a very large top drawer is actually a drop down desk top.
Not an expert on Shaker furniture? Find me a better one. I’m in absolute awe. Many TH-cam presenters search for words and ideas. Not this one. He engages the intellect and expands your horizons. This subscription is a new woodworking treasure for me. The Keno brothers combined into one generous teacher. Thank you!
These two videos are the best I’ve seen for ageing furniture. Even the wonderful Thomas Johnson hasn't gone into this level of explanation. Thank you very much for all the effort and research that obviously went into this video.
Dear Stumpy, I just saw your 2 videos on the Shaker Chest and I must say that they are excellent. I appreciate that whoever repaired the piece in the past made sure that his/her's repairs would not be mistaken for origina lwork. As the the size of the drawers in the cass, the Craftsperson who maxe the piece may have made this fof a specific location or person. This would have been a custom item. There is at least 1 example from the South Union Village in Kentucky with a similar spacing of the drawers.(See page
77, Example 147 in Robert Meader, Illustrated Guide to Skaker Furniture, 1972) Thank you again for all your work on behalf of us woodworkers. Sincerely David Butera
I haven't seen anyone give the anatomy and history of shaker furniture like this. Not even with any furniture really. It's outstanding James. I love gleaning info like this in my woodworking journey. Thanks. Appreciate your sharing!!
Gosh. For a while there, I thought I was watching the History Channel. It's so cool seeing how you used your historical knowledge to age this piece of furniture. I'd watch this all day long if you made a separate channel just doing this.
That large upper drawer is very common to American Empire, though the rest of this piece is Shaker in style. Putting the large drawer on top - in some cases overhanging the case - would differentiate a dresser from a server (to hold platters.) Very good video on the details. Nice work.
Stumpy, I have one that closely resembles this except it’s a little more hand made in some areas (like the dowel covers.) the drawers are also in the correct order! I’ve been trying to date it for years
That was very educational James, thanks for sharing it.
Bravo James these two videos really opened my eyes to simple signs I have not even given a thought to . Thanks very much.
Really appreciated your two part antique chest of drawers video. Thank you.
I'm concerned you may have underrated the likelihood of its Shaker community authenticity. I'm guessing that your chest of drawers was produced by or for a Shaker elder.
Many of your fans have strongly supported your observation that Shakers were willing sell to paying "sinners", and added that the Shakers were willing to give customers function variations over form. Shaker elders sometimes adjusted their own designs to honor function over form or or others did that for them. As a longtime Shaker fan, without furniture expertise, I offer these quotes from a Shaker furniture historian's book:
"Making authentic Shaker furniture : with measured drawings of museum classics / John G. Shea. p. cm. Originally published as: The American Shakers and their furniture, with measured drawings of museum classics. New York : Van Nostrand Reinhold Co., 1971."
"Shaker trestle tables ... the usual top dimensions were approximately ten feet by three feet. Shorter models were made for the two elders and two eldresses, who sat together at mealtimes."
"The slant-lidded desk boxes were enlarged and mounted on legs to form stationary desks. Some of these were beautifully constructed with delicately tapered legs - apparently as special gifts from the craftsman to favored elders or eldresses." (Could this also explain your piece's legs?)
"(Many of the elders were also skilled cabinetmakers, so they may have made their own desks.) Since sizes were seldom standardized, it would appear that these desks were custom-built to fit the physical requirements of the individuals for whom they were made."
Anyhow, I wouldn't be too quick to rule out you cabinet as Shaker made. On the contrary, the careful attention to the center panel on it's back that the builder was building for themselves and/or an elder that would appreciate "Do your work as though you had a thousand years to live and as if you were to die tomorrow."
The Shakers' blanket chests often featured a large 'forehead', but they wouldn't have been this tall and the access would have been from a hinged top. Maybe a hybrid of sorts? Great info in here, thanks.
I enjoyed these two videos immensely. But I glanced down through the comments and see many talking about being educated by these. Now dad gum it, Stumpy did you go and educate me without me...well I guess that is the sign of a good teacher, when the student enjoys being educated and may not even realize all they learned at the time. I guess....you "Da Man!" Thanks, and keep it up.
THIS GUY IS AWESOME! HE IS VERY KNOWALABLE AND SPEAKS SO PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND HIM. GREAT VIDEO.
James: Have you considered that the top drawer has been substituted for two smaller drawers? Have a look at the frame and see if there are any supports that were removed perhaps. Smaller drawers do not require a lot of support. It is an interesting piece and you have the skill to make it closer to a Shaker piece! Thanks for two really interesting videos.
Nice work Stumpy. I always learn something new when I watch your videos. Thanks, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Love Shaker furniture. Very rare, next to non existent I Australia but there is some of it. The father had a brilliant book on the stuff all torn down and rebuilt. Very interesting book. Apparently a lady of the Shaker community had something to do with the circular saw as we know it today...something to look into
There are examples of shaker drawers where something big was needed up top by shakers and made like this, but it was incredibly rare.
Yes I’ve along with others in the comment section have seen the large top drawer. I believe we had one in our shop. Maybe a large bible box with bible was placed in there along with thickly folded blankets, towels, and bedding or a hat, boots, or junk drawer to place candle’s, candle holders for heading to the out house late at night. Anything they wanted to keep out of sight as they didn’t like clutter. I would imagine having a large drawer on top could assist in less bending over for the heaviest or bulkiest items especially for older injured men and women who can’t keep bending down every night and then every morning to fold and put away a blanket, towel, or even pillows. Remember they lived extremely plain lifestyles, I’m sure beds had to look perfect (cleanliness next to godliness). It may have even been a guest drawer, or for a grandparent that lived at the same home who could have a large top drawer as not to bend? Or maybe it served a purpose for those that were not shakers.
Stumpy, I have a Ky. chest almost identical to the one you illustrate.
The drawers are 6, 7, 8 and 10 ". Legs are nearly identical.
Drawer bottoms are not one board but are planed in a similar manor.
Locks are also are similar but with a small maple inlay around key hole.
Only significant difference, is that my trop drawer has a forward offset
and a half turned column aside the other drawer ends.
I would almost bet they were made by the same craftsman..
The only other history I have is that it was bought by my mother from an antique dealer
in the 1920-1930 range. His name was John Gault near Walton, Ky. He restored the drawer
runners and the finish.
I am a woodworker 96 years old and still making sawdust.
Jack Hughes
Good education in this video. As a die maker I've often wandered about the history of the trade. Now we have CNC programmed electric discard wire machines to cut our extreme punch and die sections plus grinders that run on ball ways and easy to use diamond profile wheel dressers. but seeing antique screws and thinking about the machines and even the sub par steels they had to make the tooling. I would love to see a,set of dies that cut the old screws. It had to be like seeing magic to the poor soel who was filing threads to see a strip of wire being cut , stamped head, and rolling the treads from a strike. Even the old cam driven screw machines had to be awesome in their day. As a kid I've seen one run just because it was set to run a bolt that was still being used but they had tape reading NC lathes at that time. I get wound up over mechanical history and thoughts run away.
Have you seen a somewhat- recent handheld CNC called SHAPR? It uses similar tape you apply for navigation. I do have mixed feelings about technology replacing 'talent' however. Cheers
I can quibble about your arguments but in the end you reached the right conclusion. Shaker craftsmen were aware that their designs were being copied contemporaneously but small time and large manufacturers. Even today, much of shaker design's popularity is the apparent ease that hobbyist woodworkers and Bostonian accented carpenters can replicate the pieces with powertools. It's the subtle aspects of construction that set the authentic pieces apart. To wit, it looks Shaker enough to satisfy a customer and that's the nature of the marketplace.
I...cannot stop watching this channel...
Always make sure the chest you're trying to date is old enough ;)
I liked the two videos. I would like to hear more about different styles (history, what's specific for which style/movement).
man I wish I had a friend like your ! so much knowledge. I'd be all ears !
Great series James.
Thanks a bunch.
Thos. Moser's book, "How to Build Shaker Furniture" is an excellent resource for learning more about the Shakers and their furniture.
I love your videos, thank you James!
As crazy as this may sound
I've heard of shaker furniture before
But had no idea that the shakers were all gone and that the furniture was valuable and so desirable
Thank you for such an interesting and educational video
Like always, a wealth of knowledge. Thank you.
Fascinating and well explained, thank you :)
Interesting addition to your already awesome collection of videos.
This is amazing! I really enjoyed it as well as your channel thank you so much for posting this
Very good video. I'd like to see more like this. Bravo!
"Going on a date" with a "chest of drawers" sounds like fun.
Fantastic video. Thank u so, so much.
Very interesting, love learning new stuff about furniture. Wishing the best to you and yours.
-Steven
I was just looking through "Shop Drawings of Shaker Furniture and Woodenware Vol. 3" by Ejner Handberg and on Page 24 there is a chest of drawers similar to yours. The legs are different but the drawer size and layout are very close to yours. Who knew?
+Arky Trash - Handberg made his drawings from Shaker pieces that made their way into his shop over the years for repairs. He did not usually know the exact origin of the piece or if it was Shaker-made or made by another cabinet maker in the Shaker style.
That’s the kind of careful analysis I expect from a guy named James Hamilton, but not from a guy called Stumpy Nubs. Great video. Very interesting.
Great video Stumpy. Do you know of any reference guides that outline the date ranges you mentiioned?
First class Mr Hamilton!
That was wonderful, really interesting, thank you.
Excellent video James!
This analysis was really well done. You've got me hooked and interested in dating furniture. Any recommendations for learning more on this topic ?
-Todd
real nice to learn this these things this way.. Thnx!
Hey Stumpy - very intelligent review.
I enjoyed it.
Have a GREAT XMAS!!
Great info. You have definitely spent time doing some research . Thanks for sharing !
I really enjoyed this!
That was some decent education. Thanks!
Really excellent two part series. I think it would have been interesting to have Shaker expert review the piece and add a some commentary. That is not to say the host wasn't a near expert himself and very credible, I just thought a Shaker expert might have been able to add some additional insights.
Great presentation. Could the parallel marks on the bottom of the drawer be from scuffing as the runners started to wear away and the bottom sagged onto a cross rail? Or, are we not seeing more parallel marks in the video other than the obvious lighter ones?
That was an awesome insight. Thank you.
The top drawer back then was for top hats 🎩 they were big! And needed the space to fit inside
In regards to the strange configuration of drawer size, I have Amish relatives who all have dressers like this. The deep top drawer is for the large outer bonnet. It's function over form.
I agree, a Shaker craftsman would make an 'ugly, illogical' arrangement like this to order for a client; for this client it would be function trumping form (namely storing light fragile things in a top drawer).
This is so good!
You might be able to date the wood it is made from by the growth rings, the method is known as dendrochronology.
Stumpy, thanks for the video. Very intelligent. What would you know about caster/rollers that are made of wood?
great video thanks
Hey James! Please recommend us some books on woodworking history!
Thanks!
Excellent exposition.
Thank you for this fascinating and thoughtful talk.
When I watched the first video I wondered whether the the top drawer front was in fact a fold-down writing or brushing slide but this idea seems to be wrong.
I didn't know about the DIY screw slots; is that why Americans call them "flat head screws"?
Flat head screws refer to screws with a flat, tapered head as opposed to a domed, rounded head (which are called pan-head).
I laugh at all your jokes .please don't stop hahah
Mr. Stubby...I refer you to p.24 Vol. 3 of HANDBERG's Measured drawings showing that exact arrangement of drawers
I can only imagine how well the date would go since all you would be talking about was whether or not your date's chest was original. Not to mention the quality of the screws...
Stumpy... you rock man. Im gonna get you some more views
Another great video, thanks.
Great information. Keep them coming.
I have a piece at home that is virtually identical to this one. The only differences are minor, such as pattern on the leg bottoms is slightly different, no brass perimeter on the key holes for each drawer, etc. The overall size, drawer size and arrangement, half blind dovetailed drawers and all that are identical. Seems like this is a bit more than just a one-off piece. Anyone else know of similar pieces?
Yes I’ve along with others in the comment section have seen the large top drawer. I believe we had one in our shop. Maybe a large bible box with bible was placed in there along with thickly folded blankets, towels, and bedding or a hat, boots, or junk drawer to place candle’s, candle holders for heading to the out house late at night. Anything they wanted to keep out of sight as they didn’t like clutter. I would imagine having a large drawer on top could assist in less bending over for the heaviest or bulkiest items especially for older injured men and women who can’t keep bending down every night and then every morning to fold and put away a blanket, towel, or even pillows. Remember they lived extremely plain lifestyles, I’m sure beds had to look perfect (cleanliness next to godliness). It may have even been a guest drawer, or for a grandparent that lived at the same home who could have a large top drawer as not to bend? Or maybe it served a purpose for those that were not shakers.
Truly fascinating!
Excellent Info👌🏽
Man! I'm somewhat impressed with this video of yours. So, you're really trying out for a position on the Antiques Roadshow staff right? Nice work! Just a note, my friend said he thought most Shaker furniture used or had square legs and not so much as those turned on a lathe. What say you? Thanks for the informative video!
+woodstoney Tapered rectangular legs are a hallmark of Shaker furniture, but they also made many pieces with turned legs. In fact, the side by side comparison shown toward the end of the video features an authenticated shaker chest of drawers with a very similar leg profile. But ours is to unrefined to be a true Shaker design, in my opinion.
don't know if you read from old vids... I have an old piece that looks shaker... at first I thought it was but, now maybe not??? maybe so??? definitely hand crafted dovetails, bottoms where chisel was wider than angles.... and single board drawer bottoms.. but biggest doubt now comes from the bungs used.. obviously to hide screws. looks more like a hand crafted piece by a good amateur of the era, maybe not shaker like yours. but you definitely gave some good instructions on the matter........
At first glance, I expected that the top would be hinged to open so you could access that top drawer from the top. I've seen pictures of some transitional Shaker chests/dressers that have hinged tops and several drawers. They might make a good changing table for a baby nowadays.
are you willing to do a class on dating hardware? I would pay!
I recently acquired a dresser that I have been refinishing and I believe it to be quite old based on your video, perhaps Shaker. One thing I noticed is the drawer knobs are held on with wooden screws or dowels of some sort, not metal screws. What do you make of that? There is also some scrolled handwriting on the back of one drawer, that I cannot read. Was it common to do that? Thank you for the wonderful video.
Prepperjon below mentioned costs/inflation. Think of the hours that went into this chest of drawers. Did the maker get the value of his labor? Since they did, that makes that economy hard for us to understand; except, wait a minute! That chest lasted all this time and will probably last just as long again. None of the owners had to replace it at IKEA or Wal-Mart, did they? Bet this chest was bought for cash or, maybe, barter - but definitely not credit. Or did those craftsmen make wooden credit cards with floating panels and tongue-and-groove -- oh, never mind. Great video!
Any idea whether the circular saw was invented by a Sister Tabitha? Also, because there were once so many Shaker communities it seems likely that not all had true masters at work in the wood shop.
At it's peak there were only 19 shaker villages. As a sect that applied themselves heart, body and soul to their work, it is reasonable that there were at least 19 highly skilled woodworkers among them.
Is it possible that during restoration the larger drawer was put on top for some reason?
Extremely interesting! Any books you would recommend to familiarize myself with shaker and other style and time periods of furniture?
Good vid SN
Thanks
Stump. is it possible that at some point, the top drawer was added to replace the two smaller drawers that would have been the classic hallmark configuration?
I just purchased a shaker cupboard and would like to send you pictures of what you think of this cupboard as if it is really a shaker cupboard or built as a style of shaker. Can I send you pics for your help?
Somehow I really like the big drawer on the top, makes it unique. I don't agree its out of proportion but maybe the shakers would have made it different...
Any new videos on how to date furniture? Any recommended sources for dating furniture?
I really wish you would have linked the first video in this video and or in the description. I can’t find it anywhere. Help! Please!
I like your VDO. I don't understand much about the antique stuffs but I like to hear it some time to know more about it. This drawer how much you got or how much you can sell it?
Thanks
although it seems a little unpractical to see that large drawer, as a young boy I remember seeing this particular design in an old town called Maywood. I remember the women used to keep white linens in the top such as cloth napkins and tablecloths only. a piece like this wasn't used as a dresser it was used offset in a corner near the dining room. Just a thought
Good point. I'm no expert but I've made some strange things for my mama lol.
Good point and after thinking about it I too remember seeing those in a lot of dining rooms from the 40’s and 50’s generation.
I wish I could go on a date with a chest of drawers.
have you every tried dating the actual wood? Dendrochronology?
No doubt you looked to see if that large top drawer was originally two drawers? Maybe when the piece was refinished they made the large top drawer from original parts. If they did I imagine there would be evidence [nail holes for example].
Remind me of this old house but like the video
I am guessing this is the 1st chest of drawers of this style I've ever seen. At least the first that has been examined to this degree. You have pointed out some very interesting facts such as no veneer from Shaker style work. What, if you don't mind me asking did this cost from the dealer you purchased this from? I've seen some things such as this that have been restored to the point of loosing all it's historic value and thus un-recognizable as a true period piece though it claimed to be. It does look to be a true find and you are lucky to have gotten it.
+Greg Altenhofel - I paid $250. Be sure to watch the first part: th-cam.com/video/Emc2Q6ib0SA/w-d-xo.html
I did go back and watch the 1st part and what a deal. Congrats
Would the Shaker put locks on all the draws or even at all?
+woodaddict1 - The Shakers viewed all property as communal, so locks were rare, but not entirely unheard of.
Thumbs up.
Wow...first out of the Gate...This has never happened before.
what if the repair man was too lazy to replace 2 thinner drawers, and just shovelled a single big drawer to fill the gap?
maybe there are some marks indicating there was once a divider or rails for the 2 thinner drawers?
I am curious if Maddox colonial reproductions Jamestown NY are vintage or antique? thank you
I think the answer is in their name :)
@@StumpyNubs Thank you, I have a secretary desk left to me by my parents, I know it's from the 20's-30's. Possibly it was my mother's parents first... We are down sizing and I am trying to come up with a fair price...by the way, I love your You Tubes!!!
@@kimmirobison978 I wouldn't consider the Maddox prices to be a guide unless yours is also made my hand by a well-known maker. I'd look for some antique auction listings online to get an idea.
@@StumpyNubs Thank you so much for your assistance! Best, kimmi
I thought you’d like to know that I laughed when you said “I don’t mean go on a date with it” just in case I’m the first
Agreed. Funniest intro of any Stumpy Nubs video I've seen!