He needed a Battery Management System or "B.M.S." for short. There is one located on the Boosted Board, but it wont allow the onboard batteries to drop below 33volts. He needs a new B.M.S. to allow the Panasonic cells to match output voltage, to where both battery packs will run out at the same time. It will also make sure the cells are all equally charged to prevent a possible short or power surge.
Thanks for the comments everyone!! I appreciate the feedback! It turns out I really underestimated the current draw to the motors. I understood that the batteries I used didn't have high power output, but my hypothesis was that using two packs to share the load would be enough to compensate. _Wrong!_ It turns out I need at least 4 or 5!! Dangit!! I know better, I should've done the math on this first. Geeky numbers section: So the motors are 2000W and the current draw is about 50 amps (at full speed). The battery system I added maxes out at about 20ish amps. The solution is to either use more packs in parallel, or make new packs with much higher power output ratings. So the issue had less to do with Voltage, and more to do with the battery's inability to provide enough energy fast enough. Again, this is just yet _another_ hypothesis. I won't know if I'm right until I test it again. Another video solving this maybe?
wrenthereaper another video I'd watch I love the DIY stuff. The Geeky science is good every once in awhile as long as it's fun for you in the process 👌🏻
Because scientifically speaking bombs and batteries are the same things, they are a storage medium of lot of potential energy, just a battery is rigged to dish out the energy in a controlled manner, whereas a bomb is rigged to send it all out at once.
The problem is not the voltage, its the power output of the NCR18650B, even at 2 strings in parallel they can output maybe 12A which is not enough to power your boosted board at full power. I successfully ran my DIY EV VW bus using LiFeP04 and tesla 18650 cells for 3 years. I have the answer to your problem, you want to collab?
Wren, you need to monitor the cell voltages under load. at rest the multimeter won't give true readings because current is basically 0 so the cell chemistry has time to build up charge.
I agree and the fact that he doesn't have any sort of an integrated circuit for those batteries he added, worries me a lot, first of all he doesn't get to have them as energy efficient and second those things blow up sometimes so he needs to add some electronic wizardry down there.
18650 cells are stable as all hell actually, and if he got brand Panasonic ones there's a fair chance there's protection circuitry built into the cap. The reason you get less power from them is deliberate, it limits the internal production of heat that causes failures. The lipo batteries that fail are either: -damaged in manufacturing -cheap, high current cells with sloppy tolerances -mistreated by eng. error or user negligence
You're right, I DID need to check the voltages under load. I actually did mention that but it didn't make the cut. I didn't get my little cell checkers until after the trip and it's hard to use a multimeter while riding haha. As for the circuitry/safety comments, no need to worry. These are the NCR18650B batteries which are super good. They're basically the best cells in this format you can get, and I got them directly from Panasonic. Also, wiring up these batteries with a BMS is overrated. That's not really needed these days for batteries, especially if they're bottom balanced.
Don't know if you already got a resolution to this, but here's the answer: you need a DC to DC step up converter that will output 35 volts DC from whatever DC voltage the source is. However it would be somewhat difficult to find one that is rated at higher than 10 amps output, but you can fix that buy buying lets say 5 of those or even 10 of those and installing them in parallel output calibrated as the same output voltage - these DC to DC step up converters are generally very small, you would not need to worry about space consumption with them, however the larger of them can output a greater amount of amperage thus requiring much less of them (if you get one with the adjustable voltage output potentiometer) Assuming the motor of the skateboard requires no more than 50 Amps to operate as the highest prognosis, you can put 5 to 6 of these DC to DC step up converter to be covered for up to 60 amps of max current draw, that way, those batteries that you said can continue working down to 30 volts can continue to do so. the way this would work is: assuming your battery pack is down to lets say 33 volts, the controller would see a perfect 35 volts, as far as the controller of the device is concerned your battery is technically "full", but the minute voltage drops below 30 volts the whole thing would abruptly power off, you will feel the force of the power off as you will feel that acceleration just abruptly stopped and you will be on your own kinetic energy, but this is not really a problem, instead of gradually loosing power and speed you will just go from ON 100% full, to completely OFF at end end of the discharge of your battery pack. You might want to put another set of two rows in parallel maybe more to the down section of the board if there is any space, you will multiply your power potential, acceleration and torque by a factor of 2 times. This is great specially since these batteries will output more energy at a time the more you parallel them. I guess for this is down to your available usable space and if you are willing to compromise the look of your board by potentially adding additions that would affect the overall physical size of the board (eg: adding another set of two rows of battery backs by the side of the board that WILL be seen with additions of wood board extensions to further extend available space to house more batteries. Hey I know it would look "ugly" but at least it would work much better and stronger).
Hmmm I'm no engineer but, what if you fabricated a board from scratch? You could design a new board and use a 3d printer to make it or even construct one using carbon fiber and have one set of the batteries stored internally and the other just as you had them? Too bad you did not have something like an alternator to keep them charged. Well good luck with your future builds.
WREN FOR YOUR BATTERY PACK: Below I have two possible solutions. However it should be noted that it is unhealthy for these two different types of batteries to be in parallel. Because of their different internal resistances, and therefore different voltages when depleted, the batteries undergo more strain, lowering their lifetime. I would suggest option 1 over option 2, but they could both improve performance. Option 1: Remove the boosted board battery pack from the series, and add a third and fourth battery pack in series with each other, but in parallel to your first two packs, to keep your voltage at 40. This way you have more amp hours overall, and all the battery packs have the same internal resistance and don't cause some of the power to be inaccessible. Option 2: (if you don't want to buy the batteries for the new pack) Simply add a switch to the boosted board batter pack, to be able to disconnect it. Once your boosted bored batter is low, then simply flick the switch, allowing the other batteries to release power. I would not recommend a voltage step-up circuit, for a few reasons. Step-up circuits are not 100% efficient, so you would lose some power in the process. Also, while your voltage would increase, your current would of course decrease, and I assume current is also a bottleneck for the batteries you added. Also if you want to see the charge of the batteries, getting a battery charging/control circuit is not expensive, and would both let you see the charge of the board, and allow you to more safely recharge your new battery packs. If you have any questions, feel free to ask! (I'm studying computer science at a university right now, but many of my hobbies involve electronics.)
YourAverageGamerPC I agree that option 1 is is the best bet. It would be the safest, as paired batteries of the same type/size/volt output are way less likely to have a critical failure. And I don't pretend to be half as smart as some of you, but I am a battery tech for a local ecig company. So I know a fair bit about 18650, 26650 batteries but mostly with I.M.R.(Lithium manganese oxide) and I.N.R.(Lithium manganese nickel). Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide batteries have too low of a current for most mods so I haven't had the chance to work with them. My question is, if he went with option two could he use 4 to 6 paired Imr Li-ion with a max current of 35 amps(efest makes them), to charge his boosted cell way faster then the a paired group of LiNiCoAlO2 could?
you need to add a flux capacitor and get it up to 21.6 jigawatts. this will work with plutonium. it also works by attaching a Mr Fusion to the motor. The Mr Fusion will run off just about anything including banana peels and pizza crust. There's other ways to get up to 21.6 jigawatts but they're much more difficult and require a lightning storm. best of luck.
Me two years ago: *working on drones and rc cars* TH-cam Algorithm: *How to place a dirt block in Minecraft* Me now: *doing nothing related to batteries* TH-cam Algorithm:
He could also just remove the Boosted board batteries and just solder on the Panasonic cell packs. Then he wouldn't even need the Boosted board batteries. Easy peasy.He could also just remove the Boosted board batteries and just solder on the Panasonic cell packs. Then he wouldn't even need the Boosted board batteries. Easy peasy.
What you need to do is buy another charger off eBay and make an outlet with the battery packs to charge the board while you ride. Since it needs to be unplugged to ride, take out the sensor in the circuit board
Tesla batteries aren't that big of a deal. They are just regular lithium-ion high-discharge batteries. Only major factor of a Tesla's power is that they use hundreds of those batteries. Using a Tesla battery to power any other everyday item isn't going to make your stuff turn into Optimus Prime.
Hehe it's not like the first time someone has tried to put a whole bunch of batteries in a car though. Example: The Electric Turd by MCM th-cam.com/video/PZuShe0gefY/w-d-xo.htmlm44s
use a voltage converter, the use up a little energy by themselves buzt maybe it will give you even more, with the current situation. I Use one in a similar situation, but i dont know how good the work from small to big, mine change 52(down to ~30) to 24 Volts, mobile music amplifier, and it works quite well. Just be aware you need to at least cool it a little bit passively EDIT: yes, i didn´t think about the drop in voltage from the internal battery, hurr durr intelligent me. Also didn´t think about deep-deloading (is this how it works in english, not native, sorry, i mean the state of emptying the battery so much it kills it). Buuuut I have another idea: Get a new Driver fitting for the new battery packs, completely take out the internal battery, replace it (depending on its size) with one or more battery packs, cable that stuff up and you´re good to go. If there is no way to wire the driver in a fitting way to have feedback - which i can hardly imagine) set it up with a oneboardcomputer (again, is this right? smth like a raspberry pi, but that would be overkill), code a super simple app and send the batterystatus to your phone via bluetooth. Or be fancy and put LEDs in the board, itself and make a onboard (see what i did there?) statuspanel. that might in fact be way easier, one chip may be enaugh to control that with the info from the driver :D
that is better than not utilising the remaining power. You could however get the "voltage booster" to activate when the voltage drops below a certain threshold. This would mean that you wouldn't lose any power unnecessarily. Shouldn't be too tricky!
Overriding the boosted board original battery with another one of your packed batteries? That way it should check on the actual voltage of the "modded" battery and keep using the other two's. That's the first thing that came into my mind but I don't even know if it's possible!
I think the problem is that the boosted board has a voltage detection circuit that reduces the power to the board once the voltage gets below a specific point, even if he removed the original battery and then just used his 2 packs, they would still cut out at the same voltage as they do now, the battery packs he uses to add to the board would need to match the chemistry of the boards original battery, alternatively he would need a new motor controller board that can handle the new battery packs voltage range.
@1987therealfury: yep, this is exactly the case. DC/DC booster like other people comment is not viable due to the high currents. Mostlikely the booster controlboard has a few resistors to read in the battery voltage, you can modify them. Higher torque seems impossible to me as the motordriverboard is designed for the current which the boosterboard uses, higher current and thus torque is only possible with a more bulky motordriverboard (or 2 more motors and controllerboard on the other axel).
Wren, you are seriously good at explaining anything, always so entertaining and intelligent! it's time for you to call on The Hacksmith, check out his channel he is seriously awesome!
Nice Idea Wren. How about using a transistor, using the on-board battery minimum output attenuated down to the gate voltage of the transistor. That way when the on-board battery dies, it'll be isolated from the board and the other two batteries would be able to continue powering the board. Similar to how some emergency light circuits work. That'll require a bit more technical soldering though and I'm unsure how the charging circuit works on that board. Perhaps adding a switch to override the transistor would over come any issues.
Before you connect the fully charged external batteries, you need to bring all the batteries to roughly the same voltage!!! Otherwise, high currents flow that don't do your batteries any good But I love this video :D
Anders august stavøstrand that wasn’t the part 2 to the “Tesla” boosted board, if you saw the homemade electric bike Wren made, at the beginning of the video he literally says *”I know the exact reasons how to fix this thing, but we’re going to cover that in a future video”*
What happens is your two batteries start charging the default battery once the latter reaches below 33.5 V. This means that the batteries you created need to not only power the board, but also supply power to charge the default battery, which is why you could not reach top speeds past that point (and also is DANGEROUS you risk frying the default battery which could catch fire). I believe using a load sharing chip (something like the LTC4416, but with a higher voltage rating) would fix this problem. From their documentation: " the LTC4416 acts as two interconnected ideal diode controllers". Also, this will ensure that you use your two custom battery packs in parallel equally!
water and electricity are almost identical in the way they work.. from the example here, to series (pouring one bottle into another and pouring out on the end) to switches/faucets, hot/intake and ground/outlet, even how water/electricity is stored in the line until it has a way to continue.. voltage and amperage can be compared to PSI and pipe diameter.. it's good to use water analogies.
Parallel only increases the capacity not the output voltage it seems like he’s confusing that at times in the video. Putting the batteries in series will increase the voltage.
That is smart. Instead of plugging the new pack directly on the existing one, he could plug the new pack in the charging port of the board in order to keep it charging while its running. Does the board works while it's plugged-in? That is the question.
S-L-R it can be dangerous to charge and discharge at the same time also charging circuits are inefficient and can only charge the internal battery up to the voltage that they have unless you use a voltage step up
Adding another pack would increase the range, but then there's still that 5V that he cannot use, he's trying to solve his problem which can be done with a voltage regulator, rather then throwing more power into the board.
It's just the Lifepo4 battery has a much lowest capacity, around the half of 1 Li-ion one, so he think the Lifepo4 stop at 3.35v but no, it's complety discharge when the li-ion are around 3.35v. He find 3.35v for the lifepo4 because he just takes the voltage on the cables of the original battery(the 2 big cables) but because he soldered the new Li-ions on them, the voltage of the 3 batteries are mixed and 3.35v is the average voltage, the lifepo4 is surly around 2,5v and the li-ion around 3,4. He connected the batteries in parrallel so all the batteries should be the same.
ok, you obviously didn't get the joke, but aren't we all a bit nerds about our biggest interests? Or aren't you interested in anything, in get case I would go to a psychiatrist because you might have a depression. Don't take this as hate, I'm just worried about you, I wouldn't want to loose such a valuatie youtuber like you, a Total gamer. Much love, your small penised friend.
i had to use one when i was making a portable battery with supercapacitors. works great, multiplies voltage in return for a higher rate of energy use. so itll use that last bit of energy faster but atleast you can use it at all, i would this this is the ONLY option
But would'nt that effect the long stream of power delivery he was hoping for in the batteries. Though I would be curious to see that Capacitor idea in action.
Just noticed those names and was looking for this in comments! :D :D ... I am just in the middle of Stormlight Archive and it is awesome... so was the books about Kelsier
Source? Following HJ's development quite closely, he bought the Model S shortly after the alpha release of HJ. It could be a coincidence, but probably not.
Technically he got the Tesla before working on Hover Junkers. When Lionsgate and Freddie bought out his half of the Freddiew youtube channel he did pretty well for himself.
I think I know what is happening. The panasonic cells you've got are one of the best cells when it comes to capacity. However, those are not designed to output high power, I am guessing you have their NCR18650B cells (judging by the iconic green sleeving), and those can only put out 1-2C (around 3-6A) according to their datasheet. In your 2P10S configuration, I'd say they can only put out 12A max, quite lacking for a high powered device like your boosted board. This was not a problem when the LiFePO4 cells were outputting power as well, but when those falls flat, the 18650 batteries you've got simply does not pack quite the punch. The relatively high internal resistance of the 18650 cells means when you do a high current discharge with the motors, the terminal voltage of the cells drops and can't power the board, but when you connect your multimeter across the cells, the high impedance of the meter does not pull much current so it displays a normal voltage reading. To fix the problem, I suggest you either look at Lipo cells made for RC use, as they can put out a large amount of current(>30C). However, the wimpy casing around them will sure puncture and explode with your method of installing the batteries. If you want to stick with 18650, I know LG and SONY make some high (but not Lipo high) discharge 18650 cells. While model numbers escapes me, vaping forums are a good place to learn from, as their e-cig things pulls quite a lot current and mostly use 18650 cells. Another thing to keep in mind, devices that use rechargeable batteries usually have a low voltage cutout circuit to prevent over-discharging of cells. While I don't think this is the problem you were facing, as you could get the board moving, just without you weight. However, while you haven't hit the low voltage cutout yet, it might limit the extra juice you can get out of your new batteries.
The boost converter is an interesting idea, but not practical. The boosted board clearly pulls more than 10 amps at more than 30v. Only very few boost converters can output that kind of power, without having to add massive heatsinks, fans etc. So stick with upgrading the batteries.
I'm not very experienced with these 18650 cells, but if you are correct about the C ratings then that is probably the best answer about the low power. I built an electric longboard with a single 245kv brushless motor (speed and range of mine is similar to a Boosted board) and that motor's current draw is around 40-60A, even higher under extreme loads. So you would need a lot of these packs in parallel to satisfy that current draw. I used 2x3S 30C 5000mah LiPos in series. Luckily I can just switch packs and travel 30-40km (18-25mi) with 3 sets of batteries. At first I wanted to pack at least 4 batteries (2P2S) on the board but since that made the board heavy to carry and my regular commutes are not longer than I can handle with just 2, I decided on switchable packs.
Tat Wong, thanks! So far you're one of the only ones who have *truly* identified my problem. I didn't want to do LiPos because I was afraid they'd be too easily damaged. My reasoning for going with the NCR18650B batts is for their high capacity and I was hoping that by sharing the load between the internal pack and two parallel packs, I'd be able to still meet the current draw the motors would require. This assumption was obviously wrong. I needed way more power than I was giving the board. I actually just got a really nice Boost/buck converter that's typically made for controlling solar panels. I'm not sure what the upper Amp limit is off the top of my head though. I'm considering splitting the 2 packs into 4 packs at 20V each, and boosting them back up to 40 (I also realize these numbers are oversimplified in this video). The issue is that then they'd remain at that voltage rather than deplete slowly alongside the internal LiPO4 batts. This would double my C rating from the combined pack, but I'm not not sure it'd be enough either. I know I'd take an efficiency loss from the voltage converter but I wonder if it'd be worth it to get the extra capacity I'm not currently utilizing. Although to be honest, I may end up just making a new pack of 18650s with higher C ratings like you mentioned. I avoided those to begin with because their capacity was so low that I didn't think I'd be able to get the range I needed. However, if I do make new packs, I can still use this pack as a mobile battery charger for my Onewheel thanks to that solar controller I mentioned. That's actually probably my very next project.
Yay, Wren replied!!! But...I don't think your solution will work very well, to understand why, you must first understand these two simple formula that governs every voltage converters: Output power = Input power * efficiency(0 to 100%) Power = volts * amps Which means if you pull 10A at 40V from the boost converter for the motors, and your pack is at 20v, even a perfect boost converter will try to pull 20A from the batteries: 40V x 10A = 20V x 20A In reality, at that config, the boost converter will pull much more than 20 amps from the batteries, as power is lost to heat when converting. So you can't escape and might worsen the problem of the cells not being able to output enough amps. You can't beat the law of Physics! One rule of thumb when integrating DC voltage converters : the larger the difference in the input and output voltage, the lower the efficiency. Boosting from 20v to 40v is a nightmare for most dc converters, I'd say at 20v difference, most converters will only have 80% efficiency max. i.e. if your motor takes 1000w of power, you batteries will have to give 1250w of power, and 250w is turned into heat. My soldering iron only takes 30w to get to soldering temperatures. Also, if the heat doesn't kill your converter, the voltage generated by the motors when you brake and manually push the board will likely kill or damage the converter, unless additional circuitry is used. I found this cell manufactured by Sony, the US18650VTC6, it has a bit less capacity, but rated for much higher current (30A), with your current two 40v pack config, it should meet your needs, capable of putting out 60A. IMO this is the best solution. If you still wish to experiment with the converter, you can give yourself a fighting chance by not changing the battery config, and connect the buck/boost converter to the two 40v packs and the motor. That way you can increase the efficiency of the converter by having similar input and output voltages. That is if your solar power converter can take 40v inputs. One last thing, If you don't strap a battery protection board to the packs, at least connect a fuse in series with each pack, along with a low voltage alarm widget you can get for cheap at RC shops. Never abuse li-ion cells or they will release all the energy in milliseconds (aka explosion), learnt that the hard way.
Thank you for your thought out response! I'm pretty sure I follow what you're saying. The boost converter idea was just simply an idea. It's good to know that it's not a good one haha, so I won't try it and waste my time and money. To be honest I probably wouldn't have tried it anyway because I don't think it'd be worth the effort. I'd prefer to just make a different battery pack. Also, I did just pick up some of those low voltage alarms with the intent of monitoring voltage in real time. I just looked up those Sony batteries. They're pretty expensive so I'm not sure I'll go this route haha. It'd cost $180 just for the batts. I may still do this but I'll wait and see. So to segue to my other idea, let me ask you another question. You mention that voltage conversion efficiency drops with larger voltage differences. Does this go both ways, converting down and converting up? If I wanted to instead utilize these batteries to charge my Onewheel through the solar controller, which is the better option? Should I keep these 40V batteries in parallel, boosting their voltage to 58V to charge the Onewheel? Or should I connect them in series and convert down from 80V to 58V? Going up is an 18V difference and going down is obviously larger at 22V. Will the efficiency changes be the same in either direction? Or is it favorable to boost up verses buck down (assuming the voltage differences are the same in either direction)? My current mobile charging situation involves using a Li-Ion computer UPS to charge the Onewheel. It's 290Wh and has a built in inverter which I plug my 58V 3.5A power supply into. So here I'm converting from DC-AC, and then from AC-DC again, so I know I'm seeing a lot of efficiency losses there too. Surely that's more than the efficiency loss from DC-DC. I haven't figured out the exact efficiency but the Onewheel is 130Wh, so assuming 100% efficiency I should get more than 2 charges where as in reality I get about 1.7 charges. With the DC-DC route, I can also use a couple huge LiPo bricks. They're 22.2V nominal and 16Ah. Converting from 22 to 58 is a huge jump, so I assume it's better to connect them in series and just go from 44V to 58V, right? I really want this setup because it will allow me to use more batteries to get many more charges out of the Onewheel, without having to bring along the bulky UPS battery and the sizeable Onewheel charger. Here's the MPPT controller I got: a.co/hGDkOgt. Supposedly other people online have found success with this setup. Although it seems this controller can only boost voltages rather than step down as well.
Wren-“The cup can poor out all the water really fast like this, even though the bottle holds more it can’t poor out as fast because of the bottle neck like this” Niko- “why are you dumping water everywhere, the floor is drenched”
This won't solve anything. You still can't discharge battery below 3.5 because there is check somewhere in firmware/hardware. The only pro is that you can replace battery, so you'll get a bit more efficiency
@@TheCrazydude1994 I think it will. A battery sequence is said to be only as strong as it's weakest battery. All three batteries should be equal. The original dead battery sat so long that it fried itself and should be removed or in this instance replaced with a third cell just like the other two. They still will stop at 3.5 but it will be more efficient and take longer to get down to that. Plus I think the new batteries will have to be removed to charge because the old battery would hold them back from receiving a full charge.
hey sam and niko, why not use the aftermarket batteries to charge the boosted board battery. i guess cook up some sort of battery charger between the boosted board battery and that way you should be able to monitor the power level aswell. dont forget the shout out
isn't it wierd that this "Wren builts something and comes to late to work" video has more views than many of your mainchannel videos ? you know the ones you put in all the hard work and labor XD
The Booster bolt Battery has a protection I believe, while the 18650 cells do not. Basically these 18650 batteries are also in E-Cigs and they have no protection on themselves, because the Mod that you use to vape has internal circuitry that offers that protection. So you either have to strip protection from the original Booster board or bypass that entirely somehow. Also, to check your battery levels easier try finding a simple volt-meter module online with a tiny display that you can solder to your battery packs (and add a button), so that you don't have to pull out your multimeter on your ride, you just have to flip the board over and press a button and read the display.
the real question is ,is your battery pack in series or parallel , when they are series if one of your battery's dies it will cause you to lose use to the rest of your battery's power, and there is a power booster they are called transformers, but you don't want to use these since they will make your entire build inefficient for a small boost . your best bet is to - lower your motors power need by getting a new one - add more battery's -decrease the weight on the board to make it use less power - try new barring on our board or clean out the old ones - add a capacitor that you can plug in to the motors when your battery's are acting up
Transformers do not work for dc, they rely on the moving magnetic field of ac current to work. A dc to dc voltage changer is called a converter and works under different principles.
Haha no, there are plenty of transformer designs that work very well with DC still using a typical transformer keeping efficiency very reasonable. Look up a flyback for example.
Friend the definition of a transformer is an energy transfer over a moving magnetic field and a non moving magnetic field....or stationary D.C.... does not transfer energy.
Except that's probably not the reason he lost torque. When the boosted board was being designed, it was designed with a 5 mile range in mind. The duty cycle on the motors for the board probably isn't that great, so that's probably the main reason for the slowdown.
Crazy how far boards have come since this video... I ride a WowGo 3 and get up to 12-14 miles on the standard battery they pair with the board. The fact that even alternative budget boards can compete is a good sign
Using the multimeter to check batteryvoltage while not riding is kinda useless. A battery will regain quite some voltage over time. That is why if you run a flashlight empty, turn it off and then on again it'll light up very shortly before the voltage dropped again. The load of the multimeter is too low to drop the voltage to the point an actual load will do.
Yeah totally. I got some of those voltage checkers that plug into the balance cables, but got them too late. It's hard to check the batteries with a multimeter while moving, and the part where I mention this didn't make the edit haha.
You could use a Mooshimeter (Bluetooth/datalogging multimeter) to log data to your phone/an SD card. If you used a little ~10-50 mOhm shunt to measure current too, you could get some data from a ride, and work out the best battery setup based on the data. One possible mod - use an external charger for the external pack, disconnect the internal pack entirely, and use 44v or 48v instead of 40v. A bit risky though, without having a schematic for the Boosted control circuit. Might trip a protection circuit or even destroy the controller. Maybe get in touch with Boosted or post on Endless Sphere forums?
The datalogger is a great idea! And yeah, at that point I'd rather just make my own electric skateboard. The idea behind _modding_ the boosted board is simply to add more range to it. I don't want to alter the internal pack or the circuitry there.
I have seen this video som many times the last 6 month in my recommended but I have not clicked it because I thought it was big time click-bate... I now clicked it.. And regret I didnt before..
I know it super late and you have a car now lol, but I have an idea! It seems like you still have the original battery on the board along with your extras, my idea would be to charge the original battery using your extras instead of using the extras to power the meters directly. This should fix the problem of the extra battery’s still being able to work at low voltages, because it will be charging the battery that is designed for the board. Kind of like using your phone while it’s plugged in charging, except the extra batteries are the wall outlet and the original battery is your phone’s battery. This might require some extra circuitry to allow inline charging but I think it would be worth it!
I'm sure you have the answer by now, but you need to attach enough batteries in series to get a higher max current output, which can increase max energy draw, and lower the voltage at which your batteries are able to power the board. Although if the board is not designed to run at a lower voltage and higher amperage, you could damage it, so please be careful.
Jake: "You're late"
Wren: "Here's a video with 7 million views"
Jake: "..."
......get rekt son
Now it’s 8mil
Yeah it's still 7M.
Jake: Ok boomer
8 mil
He needed a Battery Management System or "B.M.S." for short. There is one located on the Boosted Board, but it wont allow the onboard batteries to drop below 33volts. He needs a new B.M.S. to allow the Panasonic cells to match output voltage, to where both battery packs will run out at the same time. It will also make sure the cells are all equally charged to prevent a possible short or power surge.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Smarty pants
Neek
Is this a working as a clipper circuit ?
You should send him a circuit diagram.
Thanks for the comments everyone!! I appreciate the feedback! It turns out I really underestimated the current draw to the motors. I understood that the batteries I used didn't have high power output, but my hypothesis was that using two packs to share the load would be enough to compensate. _Wrong!_ It turns out I need at least 4 or 5!! Dangit!! I know better, I should've done the math on this first.
Geeky numbers section: So the motors are 2000W and the current draw is about 50 amps (at full speed). The battery system I added maxes out at about 20ish amps. The solution is to either use more packs in parallel, or make new packs with much higher power output ratings. So the issue had less to do with Voltage, and more to do with the battery's inability to provide enough energy fast enough.
Again, this is just yet _another_ hypothesis. I won't know if I'm right until I test it again. Another video solving this maybe?
Will Wren solve the mystery? Find out next time on Battery Busters.......
wrenthereaper no I'm to late wren please read my comment
Mr Moyaa Will he figure out the mystery? Or will he be wrendered helpless to the power of his car?
Star Blaze Very nice.... Very nice...
wrenthereaper another video I'd watch I love the DIY stuff. The Geeky science is good every once in awhile as long as it's fun for you in the process 👌🏻
Why does every modified battery Wren makes look like a bomb.
McDuckee ikr!!!!
Because scientifically speaking bombs and batteries are the same things, they are a storage medium of lot of potential energy, just a battery is rigged to dish out the energy in a controlled manner, whereas a bomb is rigged to send it all out at once.
Ahsoka Tano so all im hearing is, they are just modified outputting bombs
Plot twist: it is
He is working for Corridor after all. :D
When he said I’m gonna need your car i thought he was bout to jumpstart his board
Yeah, me too
Yeah me too
Same here bud
Same
Same
4 years later, still waiting for the update on how to make this board actually work to full capacity 😭
ikr
Yeah
Kid, I wish he was done
maybe he is not it's unknown
maybe he isn't it's unknown
It's called a OneWheel :P
Dont mix li-ions and lipos
The problem is not the voltage, its the power output of the NCR18650B, even at 2 strings in parallel they can output maybe 12A which is not enough to power your boosted board at full power. I successfully ran my DIY EV VW bus using LiFeP04 and tesla 18650 cells for 3 years. I have the answer to your problem, you want to collab?
Yes! I just emailed you!
jehugarcia Sup man I would expect to see you here, live your videos.
I can't wait to see what happens! :D
Make this top comment so the board works better
It's also more accurate to measure the battery under load to determine how much you have left
When putting the batteries on:” I don’t wanna damage it”
Comes back from his ride: * throws it on the ground
Make another battery pack instead of using a boosted board battery.
I love dogs so i subscribed you
my favorite episodes are ones like these, where you guys just tinker and build shit. So thanks for the great vlog!
Wren, you need to monitor the cell voltages under load. at rest the multimeter won't give true readings because current is basically 0 so the cell chemistry has time to build up charge.
Brian Dunphy you should also measure current draw under load as well
I agree and the fact that he doesn't have any sort of an integrated circuit for those batteries he added, worries me a lot, first of all he doesn't get to have them as energy efficient and second those things blow up sometimes so he needs to add some electronic wizardry down there.
18650 cells are stable as all hell actually, and if he got brand Panasonic ones there's a fair chance there's protection circuitry built into the cap.
The reason you get less power from them is deliberate, it limits the internal production of heat that causes failures.
The lipo batteries that fail are either:
-damaged in manufacturing
-cheap, high current cells with sloppy tolerances
-mistreated by eng. error or user negligence
Excellent point.
You're right, I DID need to check the voltages under load. I actually did mention that but it didn't make the cut. I didn't get my little cell checkers until after the trip and it's hard to use a multimeter while riding haha.
As for the circuitry/safety comments, no need to worry. These are the NCR18650B batteries which are super good. They're basically the best cells in this format you can get, and I got them directly from Panasonic. Also, wiring up these batteries with a BMS is overrated. That's not really needed these days for batteries, especially if they're bottom balanced.
Don't know if you already got a resolution to this, but here's the answer:
you need a DC to DC step up converter that will output 35 volts DC from whatever DC voltage the source is. However it would be somewhat difficult to find one that is rated at higher than 10 amps output, but you can fix that buy buying lets say 5 of those or even 10 of those and installing them in parallel output calibrated as the same output voltage - these DC to DC step up converters are generally very small, you would not need to worry about space consumption with them, however the larger of them can output a greater amount of amperage thus requiring much less of them (if you get one with the adjustable voltage output potentiometer) Assuming the motor of the skateboard requires no more than 50 Amps to operate as the highest prognosis, you can put 5 to 6 of these DC to DC step up converter to be covered for up to 60 amps of max current draw, that way, those batteries that you said can continue working down to 30 volts can continue to do so. the way this would work is: assuming your battery pack is down to lets say 33 volts, the controller would see a perfect 35 volts, as far as the controller of the device is concerned your battery is technically "full", but the minute voltage drops below 30 volts the whole thing would abruptly power off, you will feel the force of the power off as you will feel that acceleration just abruptly stopped and you will be on your own kinetic energy, but this is not really a problem, instead of gradually loosing power and speed you will just go from ON 100% full, to completely OFF at end end of the discharge of your battery pack.
You might want to put another set of two rows in parallel maybe more to the down section of the board if there is any space, you will multiply your power potential, acceleration and torque by a factor of 2 times. This is great specially since these batteries will output more energy at a time the more you parallel them. I guess for this is down to your available usable space and if you are willing to compromise the look of your board by potentially adding additions that would affect the overall physical size of the board (eg: adding another set of two rows of battery backs by the side of the board that WILL be seen with additions of wood board extensions to further extend available space to house more batteries. Hey I know it would look "ugly" but at least it would work much better and stronger).
m8ty.com why did i read all of this btw that is true but dc to dc was a little off but u fixed it which was really cool thanks
or get taller trucks under the board for more ground clearance and leave them under the board
Wrong!
I like their comics
Hmmm I'm no engineer but, what if you fabricated a board from scratch? You could design a new board and use a 3d printer to make it or even construct one using carbon fiber and have one set of the batteries stored internally and the other just as you had them? Too bad you did not have something like an alternator to keep them charged. Well good luck with your future builds.
I get this recommended every month for the last year
I got this recommended after 3 years.
Same
@@boofbamboom hell yeah
I hate it when youtube recommends the same video for so long even though you watched it
Lol
WREN FOR YOUR BATTERY PACK:
Below I have two possible solutions. However it should be noted that it is unhealthy for these two different types of batteries to be in parallel. Because of their different internal resistances, and therefore different voltages when depleted, the batteries undergo more strain, lowering their lifetime. I would suggest option 1 over option 2, but they could both improve performance.
Option 1:
Remove the boosted board battery pack from the series, and add a third and fourth battery pack in series with each other, but in parallel to your first two packs, to keep your voltage at 40. This way you have more amp hours overall, and all the battery packs have the same internal resistance and don't cause some of the power to be inaccessible.
Option 2: (if you don't want to buy the batteries for the new pack)
Simply add a switch to the boosted board batter pack, to be able to disconnect it. Once your boosted bored batter is low, then simply flick the switch, allowing the other batteries to release power.
I would not recommend a voltage step-up circuit, for a few reasons. Step-up circuits are not 100% efficient, so you would lose some power in the process. Also, while your voltage would increase, your current would of course decrease, and I assume current is also a bottleneck for the batteries you added.
Also if you want to see the charge of the batteries, getting a battery charging/control circuit is not expensive, and would both let you see the charge of the board, and allow you to more safely recharge your new battery packs.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask! (I'm studying computer science at a university right now, but many of my hobbies involve electronics.)
You'll want a double pole double throw switch rated for over 50 amps. (Assuming the motor is 2kW)
Lucas Or add a relay to the switch
Lucas . Only when u ride.
+Lucas He needs a switch that can handle a lot of current while the motors are on. True, it doesn´t have to switch around under load, but still.
YourAverageGamerPC I agree that option 1 is is the best bet. It would be the safest, as paired batteries of the same type/size/volt output are way less likely to have a critical failure.
And I don't pretend to be half as smart as some of you, but I am a battery tech for a local ecig company.
So I know a fair bit about 18650, 26650 batteries but mostly with I.M.R.(Lithium manganese oxide) and I.N.R.(Lithium manganese nickel). Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide batteries have too low of a current for most mods so I haven't had the chance to work with them.
My question is, if he went with option two could he use 4 to 6 paired Imr Li-ion with a max current of 35 amps(efest makes them), to charge his boosted cell way faster then the a paired group of LiNiCoAlO2 could?
Everyone waiting for the follow up video
He bought a car
Ya
Thx
Nooooooooooooo
jack larsen NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@jebba2082 Yeah, with 1.7 million subscribers he should be able to afford a really nice Tesla...
WHERES PART TWO ITS ALMOST BEEN TWO YEARSSSSS
IT IS BEEN TWO YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS
Yesss
@@user-ou7ql3gr4b it hasnt been 2 years yet
YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS
Marty Saunders fuck off
I love that Wren loves Brandon Sanderson. The Kaladin and Kelsier batteries are great
I’m a serious Sanderson nerd and somehow missed that. I need to pay closer attention
@@crookshankmc3955 it was a split second shot that was easy to miss. Sent me straight to the comment section though
OMG Im rereading The Stormlight Archive and a friend is reading Mistborn now. The Kelsier and Kaladin battery packs really made me smile.
Yeh
I thought the sameeeeee
Metoo! Kelsier is awesome
I made a little girl sound of excitement when I first saw it!! ☺💗
Damn Brandon nice car
DAT TH-cam money do
Dat video game developer money yo
James Lai dat beautiful model s
I prefer Wren's Mitsubishi :D
He had it before Hover Junkers came out, pretty sure.
you need to add a flux capacitor and get it up to 21.6 jigawatts. this will work with plutonium. it also works by attaching a Mr Fusion to the motor. The Mr Fusion will run off just about anything including banana peels and pizza crust. There's other ways to get up to 21.6 jigawatts but they're much more difficult and require a lightning storm. best of luck.
EXCEEDINGLY imaginative!
Lol nice one!
AMAZING REFRENCE!!! LOVE IT
no you
Your about to see some serious shit
7:51 “What if I just ignored you?” “I’d Call the police” *Nervous Laugh*
Yay my dose of Wren arrived just in time
No need for the ambuWrence just yet
I'd prefer the Wrenbulance.
Nah I have my EpiWren just incase
epiwren omg hahahaha
Next week in the news: Kid on highly modified boosted board explodes on highway
+Katojana Aleksielsis lol
Katojana Aleksielsis these are lithium ion batteries, not rc lipo packs. no explody stuff going to happen to them.
Katojana Aleksielsis that was pretty good
Wrong. Try using more amperage than they are rated for on a continuous draw. They will vent or even explode.
nice
anybody else getting in recommened I thought this was new lmao
Yeah same here...
Me. I was wondering why he couldn't just use a onewheel
Yep
Then I looked at the date still waiting for part two
Same
yeap
As a non-skater, the best thing about this video is that he named his battery packs Kaladin and Kelsier.
Don't worry he isn't a skater either. He's a hipster riding on a 70's longboard converted into a soy toy.
@@rabid_1 fucking gatekeeper
@@rabid_1 on his channel u can see vids of him skating on snowboarding 14 years ago gatekeeper
Sanderson is a godsend
Me two years ago: *working on drones and rc cars*
TH-cam Algorithm: *How to place a dirt block in Minecraft*
Me now: *doing nothing related to batteries*
TH-cam Algorithm:
Hahaha true
He could also just remove the Boosted board batteries and just solder on the Panasonic cell packs. Then he wouldn't even need the Boosted board batteries. Easy peasy.He could also just remove the Boosted board batteries and just solder on the Panasonic cell packs. Then he wouldn't even need the Boosted board batteries. Easy peasy.
@@aw_dev no one asked
@@mik3y448 Jeez, I was just trying to provide an alternative solution.
@@mik3y448 Wren at 10:36 did
What you need to do is buy another charger off eBay and make an outlet with the battery packs to charge the board while you ride. Since it needs to be unplugged to ride, take out the sensor in the circuit board
I think this should be upvoted. This is the answer.
he needs another battery to charge the smaller battery
Boosted board's take a long time to charge
Our Daily Lives wouldn't work. These things can draw like 2000W at max, way more than any charger would handle.
Wouldn't it be crazy if the boosted board was 4 wheel drive 😂
It’s simple! Just move the two cups of Tesla up.
Hahahaha
It's not that simple, dude.
You have achieved S M O R T
LEVEL UP SMARTY PANTS UNLOCKED
@@aw_dev shhhhhhhhh you need to take a joke ok its ok sh sh sh stop hating smart one
Maybe have the extra battery’s just charge the existing battery
Tesla batteries aren't that big of a deal. They are just regular lithium-ion high-discharge batteries. Only major factor of a Tesla's power is that they use hundreds of those batteries. Using a Tesla battery to power any other everyday item isn't going to make your stuff turn into Optimus Prime.
but it makes a clickable video
nah what was a big deal was that no one had tried putting a fuck ton of those batteries in a car lol
Hehe it's not like the first time someone has tried to put a whole bunch of batteries in a car though.
Example: The Electric Turd by MCM
th-cam.com/video/PZuShe0gefY/w-d-xo.htmlm44s
Well how else do you think people will clickbait the video title it "Normal Battery Powers My Board"
Most modern laptops have 18650 batteries
use a voltage converter, the use up a little energy by themselves buzt maybe it will give you even more, with the current situation.
I Use one in a similar situation, but i dont know how good the work from small to big, mine change 52(down to ~30) to 24 Volts, mobile music amplifier, and it works quite well. Just be aware you need to at least cool it a little bit passively
EDIT:
yes, i didn´t think about the drop in voltage from the internal battery, hurr durr
intelligent me. Also didn´t think about deep-deloading (is this how it
works in english, not native, sorry, i mean the state of emptying the
battery so much it kills it).
Buuuut I have another idea: Get a new Driver fitting for the new battery packs, completely take out the internal battery, replace it (depending on its size) with one or more battery packs, cable that stuff up and you´re good to go. If there is no way to wire the driver in a fitting way to have feedback - which i can hardly imagine) set it up with a oneboardcomputer (again, is this right? smth like a raspberry pi, but that would be overkill), code a super simple app and send the batterystatus to your phone via bluetooth.
Or be fancy and put LEDs in the board, itself and make a onboard (see what i did there?) statuspanel. that might in fact be way easier, one chip may be enaugh to control that with the info from the driver :D
Boost converters are only about %90 efficient though
You could fry the board if you upcharge the batteries while they are full.
that is better than not utilising the remaining power. You could however get the "voltage booster" to activate when the voltage drops below a certain threshold. This would mean that you wouldn't lose any power unnecessarily. Shouldn't be too tricky!
Fuck the original battery and keep the new ones, maybe
heh "current situation"
5:13 the gun wall
prefirejerry - CSGO & More! *Airsoft*
Cool
This has legit been popping up in my recommendation for like 3 years and it still won’t go away
There's an option to stop the video being recommended. It's probably because you haven't watched the whole thing start to finish.
Same
You are stupid. There is a way to stop these videos. Go figure out how youtube wirks and then drop comments kid.
@@erenyeager8878 The irony of your comment.
Overriding the boosted board original battery with another one of your packed batteries? That way it should check on the actual voltage of the "modded" battery and keep using the other two's. That's the first thing that came into my mind but I don't even know if it's possible!
Yeah, same thought here. Or even remove the old boosted battery and only go on the new ones. If thats possible...
I think the problem is that the boosted board has a voltage detection circuit that reduces the power to the board once the voltage gets below a specific point, even if he removed the original battery and then just used his 2 packs, they would still cut out at the same voltage as they do now, the battery packs he uses to add to the board would need to match the chemistry of the boards original battery, alternatively he would need a new motor controller board that can handle the new battery packs voltage range.
He took out the old cells, and put in his two batteries.
@1987therealfury: yep, this is exactly the case. DC/DC booster like other people comment is not viable due to the high currents. Mostlikely the booster controlboard has a few resistors to read in the battery voltage, you can modify them. Higher torque seems impossible to me as the motordriverboard is designed for the current which the boosterboard uses, higher current and thus torque is only possible with a more bulky motordriverboard (or 2 more motors and controllerboard on the other axel).
*Elon Musk wants to know your location*
oota sa eestlane
Stalker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me it has been
@Subscribe to Pewdiepie you are not subscribed to pewds
You have his batteries, he knows your location
*hits a bump* **batteries fly everywhere**
You underestimate the true power of velcro...
Its a scate not an old phone
@Mad Man one scate
@EdgieAlias scate
its screwed to the board lol
2:47 Journey before destination, Radiant.
"two bottles of water is more water than one" great job wren
It is true though
Dude, use the Capacitor Tank Circuit concept to draw all the energy from the Battery.
Wren, you are seriously good at explaining anything, always so entertaining and intelligent! it's time for you to call on The Hacksmith, check out his channel he is seriously awesome!
Archery Attack not a bad idea i bet he could help given the fuckload of battery work they do over there.
I know right, if Wren's lucky,, James will hook him up with some Jet turbines to the side of his board! :D
I asked The Hacksmith on his Discord channel and he suggested pulling out the safety circuitry lol.
Archery Attack OMG! I was just watching the hacksmith lol
Archery Attack Dang...what are you Bill Nye?
Jk.
Honestly I'd love to see videos like this again. The day-by-day stuff
Can we get "Wren Tinkers With Stuff" as it's own spin-off channel?
how r u verified with only 125 subs?
Pure damn awesomeness.
And years of activity on various Google platforms.
or just keep it on this channel
Yes please!
EYY I saw those Brandon Sanderson character names on those packs. Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are like my favorite books.
Same here, I was stoked when I saw that
Cade Barrowes I didn't recognize Kaladin, but I knew Kelsier from Mistborn. I need to catch up on Stormlight!
Dude same. I thought Mistborn was incredible... then I read the Stormlight books and had to redefine what I considered to be incredible.
yooo, I picked up book one of mistborn a few days ago and I'm loving it! I don't know who Kalandin is though.
Don't get too deep man, I've read all the cosmere novels and novellas and I've been stuck on the 17th shard theory forums for years.
You, my friend, are a result of a night of passion between Casey Neistat and Linus Sebastian.
Michael Burns not at all lol Linus doesn’t do engineering and his camera work is so bad compared to Casey
HAHAHAHA
ima pretend i never read that
Literally Linus couldn't do any of this.
HAHAHA this comment was gold
10:28
Your biggest problem is:
1. DO NOT MIX DIFFERENT BATTERY TYPES!!
Brandon has a Tesla? goddamn
Kirt Nozu ikr
Nice Idea Wren.
How about using a transistor, using the on-board battery minimum output attenuated down to the gate voltage of the transistor. That way when the on-board battery dies, it'll be isolated from the board and the other two batteries would be able to continue powering the board. Similar to how some emergency light circuits work.
That'll require a bit more technical soldering though and I'm unsure how the charging circuit works on that board. Perhaps adding a switch to override the transistor would over come any issues.
9:30 u remind me of the kids coming home from school 😂 walking in the house n dropping all there stuff in the floor 🤣
Before you connect the fully charged external batteries, you need to bring all the batteries to roughly the same voltage!!! Otherwise, high currents flow that don't do your batteries any good
But I love this video :D
It has been 2yrs comon part twooooo 🤔🤨😣😭
He got a car, but I still hope he can make the video
Aaron Devlin dude, if you’d pay attention, he said he’d try to do this with a one wheel, something he DID. That’s the part 2
Anders august stavøstrand that wasn’t the part 2 to the “Tesla” boosted board, if you saw the homemade electric bike Wren made, at the beginning of the video he literally says *”I know the exact reasons how to fix this thing, but we’re going to cover that in a future video”*
What happens is your two batteries start charging the default battery once the latter reaches below 33.5 V. This means that the batteries you created need to not only power the board, but also supply power to charge the default battery, which is why you could not reach top speeds past that point (and also is DANGEROUS you risk frying the default battery which could catch fire). I believe using a load sharing chip (something like the LTC4416, but with a higher voltage rating) would fix this problem. From their documentation: " the LTC4416 acts as two interconnected ideal diode controllers". Also, this will ensure that you use your two custom battery packs in parallel equally!
Damn dude i could never understand parallel until i watched you pour out the water damn thanks
water and electricity are almost identical in the way they work.. from the example here, to series (pouring one bottle into another and pouring out on the end) to switches/faucets, hot/intake and ground/outlet, even how water/electricity is stored in the line until it has a way to continue.. voltage and amperage can be compared to PSI and pipe diameter.. it's good to use water analogies.
Parallel only increases the capacity not the output voltage it seems like he’s confusing that at times in the video. Putting the batteries in series will increase the voltage.
@@billjon2732 I noticed that too I was confused for a moment
3 years later Jake: still brainstorming
Do you think you could use the custom battery packs to keep the board's original pack at full charge? Just an idea.
Frostburn that would be very inefficient and the batteries would still not be fully utilized.
That is smart. Instead of plugging the new pack directly on the existing one, he could plug the new pack in the charging port of the board in order to keep it charging while its running. Does the board works while it's plugged-in? That is the question.
It's still inefficient.
S-L-R it can be dangerous to charge and discharge at the same time also charging circuits are inefficient and can only charge the internal battery up to the voltage that they have unless you use a voltage step up
Yeah you would have to match the spec of the charging brick exactly. Also, do the math to check charge vs discharge rate.
KISS: Remove the original battery and replace it with another pack of Panasonics!
Adding another pack would increase the range, but then there's still that 5V that he cannot use, he's trying to solve his problem which can be done with a voltage regulator, rather then throwing more power into the board.
It's just the Lifepo4 battery has a much lowest capacity, around the half of 1 Li-ion one, so he think the Lifepo4 stop at 3.35v but no, it's complety discharge when the li-ion are around 3.35v. He find 3.35v for the lifepo4 because he just takes the voltage on the cables of the original battery(the 2 big cables) but because he soldered the new Li-ions on them, the voltage of the 3 batteries are mixed and 3.35v is the average voltage, the lifepo4 is surly around 2,5v and the li-ion around 3,4.
He connected the batteries in parrallel so all the batteries should be the same.
Ask to EEVblog, he is an excellent electronic engineer. He is part of the TH-cam comunity.
+1 to this!
Jamer1Smith no one want to watch a 50 minute fucking video of a guy with a weird accent.
Jamer1Smith a lot of people want to
Remco Ardui no.. no one. except for nerds like you.
ok, you obviously didn't get the joke, but aren't we all a bit nerds about our biggest interests? Or aren't you interested in anything, in get case I would go to a psychiatrist because you might have a depression. Don't take this as hate, I'm just worried about you, I wouldn't want to loose such a valuatie youtuber like you, a Total gamer. Much love, your small penised friend.
He calls his Tesla Geoffrey. Is this named after the Top Gear prototype electric car? If so it needs a moustache.
YO, YOU NEED TO SEE THIS! use a voltage booster. LIKE THIS SO HE CAN SEE IT
i had to use one when i was making a portable battery with supercapacitors. works great, multiplies voltage in return for a higher rate of energy use. so itll use that last bit of energy faster but atleast you can use it at all, i would this this is the ONLY option
The power loss in the boost converter will probably be about equal or more than the amount of energy in those last 3 volts
But would'nt that effect the long stream of power delivery he was hoping for in the batteries. Though I would be curious to see that Capacitor idea in action.
7:35 that was the most intense chill conversation ever.
That was like something from a film lol.
How you can use the battery packs power is make it so that you can charge the booster board battery while you are riding it
wren: *does illegal thing*
wren: *gets caught and honestly nearly arrested for doing illegal thing*
wren: (surprised Pikachu)
Rowan Smith He did not almost get arrested
Yep. Entitled asshole. Path was closed for a reason. The same type would sue if he got hurt and probably refuses to wear a mask too.
@@sniperpaddy3271 I mean.. he did wear a mask. And in his defense, it looked like it was just that one section of the path that was closed off.
9:30 when i get home froms school walking on a hot day
Ruben Zuniga 😂
accurate
Ruben Zuniga same but I don't give a damn about anything I just want sleep
That is me with my school bag 😂
Facts
Kelsier and Kaladin! Brandon Sanderson is a god damn genius
Just noticed those names and was looking for this in comments! :D :D ... I am just in the middle of Stormlight Archive and it is awesome... so was the books about Kelsier
caught me by surprise seeing those names in a CD video hopefully they make a live action cosmere video at some point
Favorite part of this video
@SirWrender - your problem is that the Kaladin pack was focused on the journey and not your destination
Haha imagine you sing collenfurzes stuff for your outro haha
I'm glad the Hover Junker money I paid went somewhere.
ISIS probably
It's freddiew(channel) money, he had it before hover Junkers, so your statement is invalid.
aaron4820 Capitalism for ya.
Source? Following HJ's development quite closely, he bought the Model S shortly after the alpha release of HJ. It could be a coincidence, but probably not.
Technically he got the Tesla before working on Hover Junkers. When Lionsgate and Freddie bought out his half of the Freddiew youtube channel he did pretty well for himself.
I think I know what is happening. The panasonic cells you've got are one of the best cells when it comes to capacity. However, those are not designed to output high power, I am guessing you have their NCR18650B cells (judging by the iconic green sleeving), and those can only put out 1-2C (around 3-6A) according to their datasheet. In your 2P10S configuration, I'd say they can only put out 12A max, quite lacking for a high powered device like your boosted board.
This was not a problem when the LiFePO4 cells were outputting power as well, but when those falls flat, the 18650 batteries you've got simply does not pack quite the punch. The relatively high internal resistance of the 18650 cells means when you do a high current discharge with the motors, the terminal voltage of the cells drops and can't power the board, but when you connect your multimeter across the cells, the high impedance of the meter does not pull much current so it displays a normal voltage reading.
To fix the problem, I suggest you either look at Lipo cells made for RC use, as they can put out a large amount of current(>30C). However, the wimpy casing around them will sure puncture and explode with your method of installing the batteries.
If you want to stick with 18650, I know LG and SONY make some high (but not Lipo high) discharge 18650 cells. While model numbers escapes me, vaping forums are a good place to learn from, as their e-cig things pulls quite a lot current and mostly use 18650 cells.
Another thing to keep in mind, devices that use rechargeable batteries usually have a low voltage cutout circuit to prevent over-discharging of cells. While I don't think this is the problem you were facing, as you could get the board moving, just without you weight. However, while you haven't hit the low voltage cutout yet, it might limit the extra juice you can get out of your new batteries.
The boost converter is an interesting idea, but not practical. The boosted board clearly pulls more than 10 amps at more than 30v. Only very few boost converters can output that kind of power, without having to add massive heatsinks, fans etc. So stick with upgrading the batteries.
I'm not very experienced with these 18650 cells, but if you are correct about the C ratings then that is probably the best answer about the low power. I built an electric longboard with a single 245kv brushless motor (speed and range of mine is similar to a Boosted board) and that motor's current draw is around 40-60A, even higher under extreme loads. So you would need a lot of these packs in parallel to satisfy that current draw. I used 2x3S 30C 5000mah LiPos in series.
Luckily I can just switch packs and travel 30-40km (18-25mi) with 3 sets of batteries. At first I wanted to pack at least 4 batteries (2P2S) on the board but since that made the board heavy to carry and my regular commutes are not longer than I can handle with just 2, I decided on switchable packs.
Tat Wong, thanks! So far you're one of the only ones who have *truly* identified my problem.
I didn't want to do LiPos because I was afraid they'd be too easily damaged. My reasoning for going with the NCR18650B batts is for their high capacity and I was hoping that by sharing the load between the internal pack and two parallel packs, I'd be able to still meet the current draw the motors would require. This assumption was obviously wrong. I needed way more power than I was giving the board.
I actually just got a really nice Boost/buck converter that's typically made for controlling solar panels. I'm not sure what the upper Amp limit is off the top of my head though. I'm considering splitting the 2 packs into 4 packs at 20V each, and boosting them back up to 40 (I also realize these numbers are oversimplified in this video). The issue is that then they'd remain at that voltage rather than deplete slowly alongside the internal LiPO4 batts. This would double my C rating from the combined pack, but I'm not not sure it'd be enough either. I know I'd take an efficiency loss from the voltage converter but I wonder if it'd be worth it to get the extra capacity I'm not currently utilizing.
Although to be honest, I may end up just making a new pack of 18650s with higher C ratings like you mentioned. I avoided those to begin with because their capacity was so low that I didn't think I'd be able to get the range I needed. However, if I do make new packs, I can still use this pack as a mobile battery charger for my Onewheel thanks to that solar controller I mentioned. That's actually probably my very next project.
Yay, Wren replied!!!
But...I don't think your solution will work very well, to understand why, you must first understand these two simple formula that governs every voltage converters:
Output power = Input power * efficiency(0 to 100%)
Power = volts * amps
Which means if you pull 10A at 40V from the boost converter for the motors, and your pack is at 20v, even a perfect boost converter will try to pull 20A from the batteries:
40V x 10A = 20V x 20A
In reality, at that config, the boost converter will pull much more than 20 amps from the batteries, as power is lost to heat when converting. So you can't escape and might worsen the problem of the cells not being able to output enough amps. You can't beat the law of Physics!
One rule of thumb when integrating DC voltage converters : the larger the difference in the input and output voltage, the lower the efficiency. Boosting from 20v to 40v is a nightmare for most dc converters, I'd say at 20v difference, most converters will only have 80% efficiency max. i.e. if your motor takes 1000w of power, you batteries will have to give 1250w of power, and 250w is turned into heat. My soldering iron only takes 30w to get to soldering temperatures.
Also, if the heat doesn't kill your converter, the voltage generated by the motors when you brake and manually push the board will likely kill or damage the converter, unless additional circuitry is used.
I found this cell manufactured by Sony, the US18650VTC6, it has a bit less capacity, but rated for much higher current (30A), with your current two 40v pack config, it should meet your needs, capable of putting out 60A. IMO this is the best solution.
If you still wish to experiment with the converter, you can give yourself a fighting chance by not changing the battery config, and connect the buck/boost converter to the two 40v packs and the motor. That way you can increase the efficiency of the converter by having similar input and output voltages. That is if your solar power converter can take 40v inputs.
One last thing, If you don't strap a battery protection board to the packs, at least connect a fuse in series with each pack, along with a low voltage alarm widget you can get for cheap at RC shops. Never abuse li-ion cells or they will release all the energy in milliseconds (aka explosion), learnt that the hard way.
Thank you for your thought out response! I'm pretty sure I follow what you're saying. The boost converter idea was just simply an idea. It's good to know that it's not a good one haha, so I won't try it and waste my time and money. To be honest I probably wouldn't have tried it anyway because I don't think it'd be worth the effort. I'd prefer to just make a different battery pack. Also, I did just pick up some of those low voltage alarms with the intent of monitoring voltage in real time. I just looked up those Sony batteries. They're pretty expensive so I'm not sure I'll go this route haha. It'd cost $180 just for the batts. I may still do this but I'll wait and see.
So to segue to my other idea, let me ask you another question. You mention that voltage conversion efficiency drops with larger voltage differences. Does this go both ways, converting down and converting up? If I wanted to instead utilize these batteries to charge my Onewheel through the solar controller, which is the better option? Should I keep these 40V batteries in parallel, boosting their voltage to 58V to charge the Onewheel? Or should I connect them in series and convert down from 80V to 58V? Going up is an 18V difference and going down is obviously larger at 22V. Will the efficiency changes be the same in either direction? Or is it favorable to boost up verses buck down (assuming the voltage differences are the same in either direction)?
My current mobile charging situation involves using a Li-Ion computer UPS to charge the Onewheel. It's 290Wh and has a built in inverter which I plug my 58V 3.5A power supply into. So here I'm converting from DC-AC, and then from AC-DC again, so I know I'm seeing a lot of efficiency losses there too. Surely that's more than the efficiency loss from DC-DC. I haven't figured out the exact efficiency but the Onewheel is 130Wh, so assuming 100% efficiency I should get more than 2 charges where as in reality I get about 1.7 charges.
With the DC-DC route, I can also use a couple huge LiPo bricks. They're 22.2V nominal and 16Ah. Converting from 22 to 58 is a huge jump, so I assume it's better to connect them in series and just go from 44V to 58V, right? I really want this setup because it will allow me to use more batteries to get many more charges out of the Onewheel, without having to bring along the bulky UPS battery and the sizeable Onewheel charger. Here's the MPPT controller I got: a.co/hGDkOgt. Supposedly other people online have found success with this setup. Although it seems this controller can only boost voltages rather than step down as well.
My guy use the battery pack almost as an alternator for the actual battery just have a line from the pack to the boosted battery to charge from
This was my first thought but at a guess the board / battery management has protection so you can't charge and ride / discharge.
Wren-“The cup can poor out all the water really fast like this, even though the bottle holds more it can’t poor out as fast because of the bottle neck like this”
Niko- “why are you dumping water everywhere, the floor is drenched”
Mad props for Cosmere references. Bridge 4!
I need to get a Bridge 4 tattoo.
Why don't you just remove the boost board batterys and just keep the batterys you added?
This. Do this...
This won't solve anything. You still can't discharge battery below 3.5 because there is check somewhere in firmware/hardware. The only pro is that you can replace battery, so you'll get a bit more efficiency
@@TheCrazydude1994 I think it will. A battery sequence is said to be only as strong as it's weakest battery. All three batteries should be equal. The original dead battery sat so long that it fried itself and should be removed or in this instance replaced with a third cell just like the other two. They still will stop at 3.5 but it will be more efficient and take longer to get down to that. Plus I think the new batteries will have to be removed to charge because the old battery would hold them back from receiving a full charge.
Or idk build a boosted board which doesnt cost $1500? Not hard 😯
@@Sqoou_Too c
hey sam and niko, why not use the aftermarket batteries to charge the boosted board battery. i guess cook up some sort of battery charger between the boosted board battery and that way you should be able to monitor the power level aswell. dont forget the shout out
isn't it wierd that this "Wren builts something and comes to late to work" video has more views than many of your mainchannel videos ? you know the ones you put in all the hard work and labor XD
You just doubled the value of that boosted board
Wewbi e trippled
quadrupled
*9:28** me coming home after a long day of school.....*
Wren Nye the science guy
I love these vids of Wren just nerding out over his COMMUTE.
You could just remove the original battery.
He did.
:)
Idiot
dougburnett4 and
"He did."
He did not. The thing still off it + the other 2 batteriy packs
The Booster bolt Battery has a protection I believe, while the 18650 cells do not. Basically these 18650 batteries are also in E-Cigs and they have no protection on themselves, because the Mod that you use to vape has internal circuitry that offers that protection. So you either have to strip protection from the original Booster board or bypass that entirely somehow.
Also, to check your battery levels easier try finding a simple volt-meter module online with a tiny display that you can solder to your battery packs (and add a button), so that you don't have to pull out your multimeter on your ride, you just have to flip the board over and press a button and read the display.
the real question is ,is your battery pack in series or parallel , when they are series if one of your battery's dies it will cause you to lose use to the rest of your battery's power, and there is a power booster they are called transformers, but you don't want to use these since they will make your entire build inefficient for a small boost .
your best bet is to
- lower your motors power need by getting a new one
- add more battery's
-decrease the weight on the board to make it use less power
- try new barring on our board or clean out the old ones
- add a capacitor that you can plug in to the motors when your battery's are acting up
deathbunny omg you need to learn more
Transformers do not work for dc, they rely on the moving magnetic field of ac current to work. A dc to dc voltage changer is called a converter and works under different principles.
thanks for that @spider0804 I didn't know that transformers only work with ac .
Haha no, there are plenty of transformer designs that work very well with DC still using a typical transformer keeping efficiency very reasonable. Look up a flyback for example.
Friend the definition of a transformer is an energy transfer over a moving magnetic field and a non moving magnetic field....or stationary D.C.... does not transfer energy.
I'm sure after Wren's Science Battery Water Explanation, his pants are gonna be soaky wet.
he poured it in a bucket
bro you actually explained the problem in your vids. you are using low output batteries that why you dont have torque
Except that's probably not the reason he lost torque. When the boosted board was being designed, it was designed with a 5 mile range in mind. The duty cycle on the motors for the board probably isn't that great, so that's probably the main reason for the slowdown.
Love the "Way of Kings" easter egg in there!
And Mistborn.
I actually had to take a double take on that, didn't expect to see that here.
I think I'm on the rich side of youtube
joseph jackson dudes driving a mitishitty beater and he spends what like 150 on a new way to get to work really man are you blind my guy
Tommygunstudios I just came from a video where a guy flew from his house to McDonald's to get a number 2 😂😂
are you talking about that dude with the orthicopter or whatever he called it?
MaSHED T8RS yeah
Tommygunstudios the board was 1500 dollars
Crazy how far boards have come since this video...
I ride a WowGo 3 and get up to 12-14 miles on the standard battery they pair with the board.
The fact that even alternative budget boards can compete is a good sign
you should talk to @ElectroBOOM he is an electric genius
true ahhaha
I regret checking him out.
Using the multimeter to check batteryvoltage while not riding is kinda useless. A battery will regain quite some voltage over time. That is why if you run a flashlight empty, turn it off and then on again it'll light up very shortly before the voltage dropped again. The load of the multimeter is too low to drop the voltage to the point an actual load will do.
Yeah totally. I got some of those voltage checkers that plug into the balance cables, but got them too late. It's hard to check the batteries with a multimeter while moving, and the part where I mention this didn't make the edit haha.
You could use a Mooshimeter (Bluetooth/datalogging multimeter) to log data to your phone/an SD card. If you used a little ~10-50 mOhm shunt to measure current too, you could get some data from a ride, and work out the best battery setup based on the data.
One possible mod - use an external charger for the external pack, disconnect the internal pack entirely, and use 44v or 48v instead of 40v. A bit risky though, without having a schematic for the Boosted control circuit. Might trip a protection circuit or even destroy the controller.
Maybe get in touch with Boosted or post on Endless Sphere forums?
Thought the same, 36 V without load is not a good reading like he said.
The datalogger is a great idea!
And yeah, at that point I'd rather just make my own electric skateboard. The idea behind _modding_ the boosted board is simply to add more range to it. I don't want to alter the internal pack or the circuitry there.
Sooo is there a second episode?
They should have a war between corridor crew and Hacksmith industries using all of their builds and cgi projects sorta like a movie.
Ima make a petition for that
I have seen this video som many times the last 6 month in my recommended but I have not clicked it because I thought it was big time click-bate... I now clicked it.. And regret I didnt before..
Max Wiktorsson what the heck?
I know it super late and you have a car now lol, but I have an idea!
It seems like you still have the original battery on the board along with your extras, my idea would be to charge the original battery using your extras instead of using the extras to power the meters directly. This should fix the problem of the extra battery’s still being able to work at low voltages, because it will be charging the battery that is designed for the board. Kind of like using your phone while it’s plugged in charging, except the extra batteries are the wall outlet and the original battery is your phone’s battery.
This might require some extra circuitry to allow inline charging but I think it would be worth it!
Mistborn & Stormlight Archive reference :')
YEAH DUDE
Engineer, VFX Artist and Presenter. Amazing guy.
It’s been 2 years! *continue the mod!*
Still waiting
@Kurt Kluring buy new ones?
@Kurt Kluring oh thanks I didnt think about that
Dude, he continued the project on a one wheel. Check the vid
I'm sure you have the answer by now, but you need to attach enough batteries in series to get a higher max current output, which can increase max energy draw, and lower the voltage at which your batteries are able to power the board.
Although if the board is not designed to run at a lower voltage and higher amperage, you could damage it, so please be careful.
You need to just completely remove the boosted board battery and just run on the tesla battery that would be the best way
JDKOSEN he already did a part 2, but on a one wheel instead
Wouldn't work,
exactly but ad one more tesla battery pack in lei of the original batt pack thus everything optimized across the board
His voice is lighter than my future. And more original than my jokes.
Is he secretly Peter Parker?
Lmao that's what I was thinking
That's what I'm wondering to
That’s that’s the same thing I was thinking. Peter Parker from infinity wars lol
Yes
King Evan
That would be my dream!!!!!!
Wren, you named your battery packs Kaladin and Kelsier! Did that have anything to do with the 10 (original) allomantic metals or 10 surges...?? :)
Is Wren a Sanderson reader? :D
I think he might be
You need a voltage regulator they are pretty cheap
A voltage regulator lowers the available voltage to a constant level. It cant raise the voltage..
aspraconsulting a boost regulator can.
voltage booster
You can raise the voltage but the watt's will stay the same. They are called transformers. But yeah, it will not improve anything.
5:12 when the quite kid has a tour and has to walk thru a hallway of his house .