Out of all the channels I watch. This man's professionalism and tone of voice while explaining is most intriguing. Thanks brother for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. You're a great man.
I discovered your videos while looking for ways to renovate/improve my LPG line on board, not much information on that on the net. Very nicely made videos and covering a large area of a boat renovation. So thank you very much. This said, do not forget to take her to the water and sail her one of those days, a boat will never be perfect I mean, other people would maybe have gone yet once around the world with this boat more or less in the state you bought it, with osmosis, floppy deck & all.
Make sure the hose from the head to the tanks is easy to access/remove (first hand experience). It will get clogged with buildup if using saltwater to flush, and it will clog quickly with all that peeing! The gravity tank is the way to go. If you can get that upper cleanout to go straight up to the deck clean out, it will make unclogging the drain much easier. A simple batten will work to unclog the bottom of the tank. This is how our Leopard 46 was designed and I was glad to not have to remove the lid on a full tank inside of the boat!
For the waste tubing, go with pic #1. Keep it simple. From toilet to holding tank to overboard. And it might keep you from getting in hot water if you forget to close a thru hull and get boarded. Also wouldn't keep the thru hull open, Let the tank fill then empty, then close thru hull, and repete. That way all solids have a way of getting out.. Build is looking great Mads.
The more complicated plumbing set up has some advantages. With the toilet set to bypass the holding tank but with the seacock closed the toilet will pump water into the tank outlet - can be usefull for clearing blockages.
All is coming together fine, getting in tune with the galley is in another dimension, now there's a dance we can all be happy were not dealing with so strapon your thinking cap and dance, dance, dance..(jk) Mads it will all be fine, looking spiffier than new coveralls without paint or glue stains. No comment from me about the PP comment..hee hee !!
If I am thinking about it correctly, the anti-siphon above the head in Option A is to prevent the holding tank from emptying back through the head. The holding tank acts as the anti-siphon for the sea water, but sailboats and healing over can cause unique circumstances between the holding tank and the head if you don't have a siphon break between them.
One benefit of hose over pipe; hose will flex with motion and expand/contract with temperature far easier than pipe. Yes, I do have pipe in some locations on my freshwater system, but the bulk of the plumbing is marine grade, use specific flexible tubing.
Hi Mads, you should think a second time about the orientation of your toilet ;-) . A seaworthy toilet should not be oriented athwartships since in most conditions the rolling motion is much heavier than the pitching one. Ideally you can sit on the toilet facing forward and being restrained on both sides. Just imagine using your design on starboard tack even in medium conditions. You are facing downwards (which human beings don't like at all) and need to somehow (?) support yourself against being hurled towards the far away door ! That said, you have done a really admirable job in refitting Athena.
Wiring should have a raceway with a sealed one through the bathroom instead of the usual rats nest I see in most (if not all) yachts. There are a ton of different designs of regular commercial raceways that would work in a boat. Or you could use a PVC pipe going through the bathroom at least. Something that you could have the option of being able to clean out mold, insects or even Tribbles.
You are doing it right with all the provisions for "trouble". I am very happy with my DIY composting head. Been using it for a year now, works great.No complexity, and no trough holes at all.
@@williamhoskins7818 The coast gard is very far away here in Holland. Here in Europe it is just not allowed to dump overboard. It's up to you how you solve the problem.
Mads, I had the Raritan Elegance in my 27 ft C&C. I loved it. One thing I discovered is that with the macerator the head discharges with the pump very efficiently through the smaller diameter marine hose. I originally installed with large diameter like you are about to install. What I found was that discharge water from the head to the vented loop will need to be run with rinse water to at least clear the portion of hose from head to vented loop. Of course the supplied joker valve generally stops it from back flowing into the head bowl. But the standing sewage discharge should be rinsed with enough water to clear that length of hose. It can add up to a lot of water (fresh or sea water). If you run smaller diameter hose from the toilet up to the vented loop with a hose diameter reducer at the vented loop this standing discharge will be considerably less. You can run the large diameter hose from the output side of the vented loop and the remaking discharge plumbing. After I did this I saved a lot of water and actual performance of the flushing action worked better through the smaller hose. The macerator on the elegance head iWorks very well and I never had any clogging issues. You can see in the instruction that the head has options to run either size discharge hose. This head works so well that I am now installing it on my Hughes 38 that I am in process of rebuild. Your videos are a great help and an inspiration to do projects proper. Thanks Larry Graham
PVC will go brittle over time. I build and repair caravans. I’ve seen many PVC lines simply crack and shear. Easy to repair but not when we’ll hidden behind bulkheads. You made a wise decision my friend.
Having spent a good deal of time aboard vessels and using the head, I much prefer that the head be mounted just a bit higher than ones you might use at home. An few centimeters will do it. It adds immeasurably to the comfort when at sea. When the head is low, it is not only uncomfortable to squat, but it is also more difficult to maintain your balance when the boat is moving. I recommend raising the head height just a bit. You have the room. Just my .02.
Our 20 gallon tank fills up in about a week or so. So we need to find a pumpout that often when cruising inshore. Going for a 3-mile cruise can be a real PITA sometimes as the inlets around here on the Atlantic ICW are often not very close to where the prime cruising grounds are. For example Vero Beach, AKA: Velcro Beach, is a popular Florida East Coast cruising location. It is an all day trip to the sea and the nearest inlet to the Atlantic Ocean at Ft. Pierce. (The Sebastian inlet is quite a bit closer but not accessible to sailboats due to a low bridge across it.) Luckily they do have a mobile pumpout boat that comes right to their moorings -but if you elect to anchor out nearby you will have to come into the fuel dock to get pumped out as the mobile pumpout only services mooring and slip guests of the marina. Hopefully nobody snatches your prime anchor spot while you are away dispensing with the #2 job. I like the idea of the gravity feed. We have yet to have our macerator pump fail in two years of cruising but it is only a matter of time before it succumbs to the crappy job it has. Having a Y-valve before the holding tank is a No-No if you want to cruise the Great Lakes. Big violation if caught with it. The simple fix is to simply remove it temporary and install a short length of PVC pipe instead as a connecting nipple, and cap off the extra hose to the through-hull. When you leave you can reinstall the Y-valve. A simple $5 temporary fix.
My heart really goes out to you. When I was working on my Catalina Morgan 440 [ Fantasy] up in Bellingham, WA. There were a multitude of marine parts and service shops. So parts and service help were just a short walk or drive away, and if they didn't have it it was overnighted. We are so spoiled here in the US. Take care and keep up the good work.
USA was our goto when our dollar had parity, now I can get parts from the UK to Australia in 4 days. There are things we just can't buy here especially for an ex USA boat.
!!!!! Caution!!!!! In option A don't leave the sea cock open and think it will drain from the tank slowly. What will happen is you will end up with a tank full of paper and a big clogged. Always have plenty of water in the tank so when the valve is opened it can flow out in a rush. If you don't you better have lots of coat hangers to clean up with. LOL
Re gimbal. Make a generous allowance for the weight of pots of food on top of the stove when calculating the best point of balance and for clearance of said pots when it swings. As someone mentioned below, adding mass at the bottom is not out of the question.
You might want to consider running a conduit from the tech room into the vanity cavity (and maybe beyond?) for electrical and whatnot. Much easier to fish wire through a pipe than through holes in cavities. Great video as per usual.
Great comment from a very experienced boater! I would add to put in multiple pipes because as they fill it can be hard if not impossible to always get another wire through. So always leave a pull line in place and another tube 4 spare. Much better to have 3 medium-sized tubes then one large one.
Usually you want the heavier things on the boat moved as close to the bottom and near the center of gravity as possible, it's supposed to be important for how the boat moves.
I know this is a bit late in your build, but have you ever saw a head/sink that you see in jails or prisons? They are all one piece and stainless. Seems like a perfect combo since inmate cells are short on room
Hi Mads, great episode. I don't know if you know but Johan, Malin & Vera from RAN Sailing were saying in a recent episode of their channel that they could be looking for a replacement gimbled stove for their new boat and I thought I'd just pass on the message in case no one else did. See you.
On this side of the pond home toilets have p-traps to hold water and anti-siphoning vent stacks to keep water in the pipe so sewer gases don't come back into the house. Without the water in the sewer line you wasted a lot of money on low permeability hose cause it's going to stink and it won't be coming through the wall of the hose.
Great progress as usual. I like the idea of a deck fill for the holding tank - with Ava peeing every 10 mins using the deck fill may be your only option.😂😂⛵️
In the US it's now (as of 20 Jan 2020) illegal for fiberglass dust to itch. We love our Legislature! So far, I've heard no confirmation of any itchiness from fiberglass workers. ...and I have no idea why they chose 20 January. Aloha dude! Love 'ya, and nā mahalo. Pōmaikaʻi īa ʻolua. :) 🤙
Hello Mads, Don’t know if you are considering a recessed kick plate for your vanity build , but I would consider adding it into your build. Most aircraft vanities don’t have one and it is very awkward to use the vanity bowl without the recessed kick plate. Not sure of other vessels use this configuration at the bottom of the cabinet. Enjoy your work. Good luck!
Great Job Mads. I have option A and wish I had option B with my Jabsco electric flush because I would be diverting all number ones directly outside and saving room in the holding tank for the nasty number twos. i have no problem adding a little sterile pee into a marina or the ocean. Put in a Y valve marked 1 and 2. Keep up the good explanations.
@@JimKJeffries Hi Jim. I've seen and read about composting heads and they look like a very good option, especially if you're limited with pumping out. I have been on cruising yachts that have them and owners swear by them. Cruisers often stay in one place for longer and empty holding tanks regularly. Here in NZ the rules are minimal (empty in 5m and 500m off shore) and boaties I know follow this. I'll stick with my type A because it's only a problem when a lady is on board which isnt that often.
@@JimKJeffries There's a good chance he's considered it and has determined that it's not for him, as it looks like, according to this video, he's installing a holding tank.
@@acmeopinionfactory8018 perhaps, however he has run most of his ideas through the TH-cam/ hive mindset. There is a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge in the 65K people watching. I dont think I missed one, and was curious as to his reasons. Everyone that has one, from boats to RVs wishes they got one sooner, gives back space, reduces wieght...was just curious. Hope you had a great weekend, and enjoy your week.
@@JimKJeffries I would say that he has run 'some' of his ideas, not most, past the viewers. It seems that in this case, he didn't even have to poll his viewers as to whether he and his girlfriend should adopt the litter box version of marine sanitation.
Oh and don’t forget you need to be able to lock the outlet valve from the head/holding tank as in US waters they often do a spot check in certain areas where pumping out is prohibited. Andy UK
Reminds me of a plumbers comment... "We can make your sh*t flow up-hill... it will just cost you more!" and you definitely do need that anti-siphon valve to prevent the full tank contents from siphoning back through the head ;-)
Mads you were truly missed out here! Hope you had a wonderful with your bride to be! I think you need to make sure you monogram Athena with your name somehow! She is truly going to be one of a kind.
After two weeks of several episodes a day, I’m finally up to date - Love your channel Mads, looking forward to seeing you through the process and not at least, to see you and Ava enjoy the sailing that follows.
I think it is good to have a valve at the bottom of the holding tank so you do not have standing "brown water" in the hose to the through hull. Maybe you thought about that but it was not included in the diagrams you presented. Thanks for the video, loved it!
Once Athena is finished, and if it were sold new at the standard Mads is achieving, I wonder how much more than the original price the Warrior would cost? IE, if it was a £80,000 boat new, how much more would it have cost to build it to this extraordinary level of unashamed spiffyness (SL11, where 10 is perfection). The quality of this boat when finished will be higher than just about any boat on the water.
Great video! How permeable is that hose.... what about the holding tank and all those joints - less is better I think, so my guess would be for option a and this will keep solids and liquids moving through the tank reducing the risk of crusty sediments. This is one of the most addictive series on TH-cam.
You sound like I feel, go get some sleep. Otherwise you might miss making a video! That oven box looks great too, making me wish I was doing a bigger remodel on my galley so I could do the same.
Looks good. I have 25 years working on boats ships as an engineer accessibility is key. Seams like your cramping your shower y not mount the tank behind the loo. It will be behind you and more out of the way I personally would give up space behind it to get more space in the shower. And in your previous vid I asked why you didn’t do fillets on your other bulkheads unless you just didn’t show them. Also I like how you go simple systems and items over more complex. Also on your stove the usually make a SS rack to hold pots and pans from sliding around on most of the fishing boats around here Ketchikan Alaska.
Seems like the shower is a good spot to me. The space is fairly useless and leaves a good amount of space for dry storage above the toilet. It also seems working on it will be simple as just open a shower wall. I think if he put the tank above the toilet he would be forced to move the toilet forward or aft and inward for the tight hose bend.
Sailing Luana Cordelia true he my have a tight hose bend. I see what your saying. There appears to be enough room back there that’s already wasted space with the throne in the way. A nice way to keep you back straight while doing the deed. I know in the shower he’s outboard towards the hull pritty far but that would really cramp an already small shower. Mads there is also composting toilets and a buddy has one and loves the fact his sailboat doesn’t have that waste tank smell that almost all boats have.
Here's a thought: You've mentioned using the 'dead' space to the right of the vanity, behind the head bulkhead and behind/below the holding tank. Having just rewired my old boat, may I suggest you run some pvc pipe segments in the actual spaces you intend to use? Not the whole run, just pieces in each area. That way you'll see what may interfere with your plan and give you an estimate of how much wire conduit (pipe) you'll need for the job.
Option 1; simple is usually better. Besides, if you want to add on later, better than disconnect. to deduct, it's less mess. For U.S. use, a simple lock on the TH will serve.
Just a head's-up - If you intend to bring Athena to the US Great Lakes, no black water discharge is allowed at all, but with the holding tank, you can disable the direct discharge function to become legal.
Option B adds redundancy, in case the tank cloggs, or cracks, or becomes unusable any other way. My vote would be for option B :) Thank you so much for your excellent content :)
Hi there. of course option B is much better - talking from experience, also i would like to suggest you to put rubber stripes at all sides of the holding tank to prevent Scuffs and cracks that may occur due to all the ship's vibrations. beautiful job .
Something I have been thinking about regarding Athena is what will be the net change in weight off all the changes. Boat designers pay close attention to weight and center of gravity. When you were marking the waterline it seemed that you are assuming it will be the same as before. This may not be the case. The plywood deck core and bottom frame reinforcement surely added weight. Maybe other changes reduced weight. I would estimate that your waterline will change roughly 1” for every 1500 pounds of weight change. Have you given any consideration to that?
Just dicovered your channel a week ago and I'm madly trying to get up to date. I enjoy your enthusiasim for this project and I'm looking forward to all the episodes to follow.
In US ports you must have sealed black water tanks and sea cocks emptying overboard are banned. Eventually this may become universal so composting toilets may be a better option.
I used the exact same hose and it's absolutely smell-free ;-) (after 2 years) and my setup is like option 'A' with the vented tank itself as a anti-siphon - works great and is simple.
Great stuff Mads, as always. Now, I'm an architect, and terminological exactitude really can be the difference between success and disaster, so I can get a bit pedantic. In a bathroom, you wash your hands in a basin, not in a sink. A sink is for dishes etc in a kitchen, or for clothes etc in a utility. So, unlike you, I'm looking forward to the arrival of your new hand basin. :)
In the USA and the Galapagos Islands you are not allowed to have your head dump straight into the water. You have to have a holding tank and a deck pump out.
Хорошо у тебя получается. Недавно узнал о твоём канале и пересмотрел уже все видео. Хочу приобрести себе подержанную парусную яхту и всё там переделать под себя. Удачи тебе и жду следующих видео.
1 Year, 3 Months is also pretty momentous in our family, I retire from work in Year 3 Months and 14 Days and 19 days later we'll have been Married for exactly 46 Years!
Imagine that holding tank 3/4 full - not lightweight by any means - now put the boat in a rough seaway with maybe some rolling and slamming. Sure the holding tank supports are strong enough?
A tiny bit of advice from a liveaboard. As you’re finalizing the design for your vanity, keep the trash bin in mind. If you can tuck it somewhere that tiny head will be so much more tidy. In our case, each head has two trash bins: one for regular trash and smaller one for toilet tissue. With your gravity tank you really don’t want to flush toilet paper. Trust me.
Keep in mind, the shorter the run to the holding tank, the more capacity of the tank you can use. Regardless of type of hose what wears them out is waste sitting in them. The recommended practice for odor is to pump the contents of the head all the way to the holding tank. You should google Peggy the headmistress. So with all the that said, I would forego the vented loop on the head discharge since it’s going to a vented holding tank that is above the waterline. However in any water fill lines you definitely want one. Lastly, probably too late but when on a long port tack, holding tank outlet may not be above waterline. All this would mean is you may not be able to fully drain the tank. Just something to weigh out.
Save room for an inline air filter (deodorizer). Trust me.. you will need it. Especially when it's located at the shower. There's always that weird funky nursing home odor that will escape. Nothing is 100% sealed. I work on large vessels and yahts. So yeah.. they really do help. And need to be changed about once a year.
you might want to put some rubber between the wood/fiberglass and the plastic tank so it doesn't rub through the tank. may or maynot be an issue but a hole in that tank would not be fun to clean.
Mads, Something to consider when you build the new tank, in the US now there is a big push to regulate holding tanks, and they are starting to require 15 gallons per person at many of the marinas here, and are inspecting tanks for size. It looks like you have more than enough room there to build a tank that will be large enough when the time comes. I ran into an issue with this on my boat as it only had a 20 gallon tank.
Great planning and execution. I hate marine heads. Having taken apart more than one due to plugs you get an aversion to them. May I ask why you are not installing a maceration head? Till next time.
Mads, excellent. - Good timing. I am doing something similar with my holding tank. I had really over-complicated the design for mounting it to the bulkheads and hull and was scratching my head a bit. - I'm now going to copy pretty much exactly what you have done. It looks simple and strong. Also I am going for gravity discharge option A; except I have decided that I won't put in an anti siphon. As you say, not strictly needed. There isn't a hydraulic lock because of the vent - and the chances of the vent tube blocking are probably less than the siphon itself blocking.
For fibreglass itch I’ve had good luck with an immediate HOT shower followed by a cold shower. The theory is that you sweat the dust out of your pores, wash it away, then the cold water slams your newly cleaned pores shut. Think Finnish Sauna - something maybe you have nearby. Maybe that would be better?
I lived in a camping trailer for the summer. It had a hook up to gravity drain the holding tank. I was told not to leave it open all the time. I was told to let it fill up then drain it. The reason I was given was that if you leave it open then the moisture drains out and the bits of feces left behind begin to harden and collect, eventually leading to a blockage. Might be something to look into?
I vote option 1 for your plumbing layout. I feel it best to keep things running through. I would think you would have to flush it before you plan to not use it for a while. Option 2 requires likely having to fix a pump at some point, as opposed to a leak in your shower which as you said can just be washed away. I like the simplicity:)
Making great progress. More time you spend planning, generally the better the job. I follow KISS, keep it simple stupid but that is not to say the simple is always better. Seems to me this is an area that needs some failure and repair analysis to be sure all the "Oh Crap's", pun intended are covered. Can you fix a head pump motor without the tank draining, can I get at all the hose band clamps, what happens if the tank exit gets plugged or a valve starts to drip. etc. The analysis may not show anything, but forces some critical system thinking. Document what parts or special tools one would need, do I need to order a 50mm or 100mm replacement band clamp and oh yea if I use a swivel, and a 200mm extension with a 10 degree bend I can get at the upper clamp.
Regarding the gimbal placement. A safety issue arises when the gimbal is active. If the oven door opens. At best you can spill the dinner or worse, Whatever's on the stove will slide forward due to the balance offset, boiling water, hot grease, etc. Since baking and stovetop cooking may occur simultaneously is there any design that counteracts this? Great videos, one of my favorite channels. Where do you get your energy?
Out of all the channels I watch. This man's professionalism and tone of voice while explaining is most intriguing. Thanks brother for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. You're a great man.
Every episode I am more amazed at your skill and brain power. Not to mention your story telling abilities!
I discovered your videos while looking for ways to renovate/improve my LPG line on board, not much information on that on the net. Very nicely made videos and covering a large area of a boat renovation. So thank you very much. This said, do not forget to take her to the water and sail her one of those days, a boat will never be perfect I mean, other people would maybe have gone yet once around the world with this boat more or less in the state you bought it, with osmosis, floppy deck & all.
Option A. Less parts=less potential failures. Elegant in its simplicity.
Make sure the hose from the head to the tanks is easy to access/remove (first hand experience). It will get clogged with buildup if using saltwater to flush, and it will clog quickly with all that peeing! The gravity tank is the way to go. If you can get that upper cleanout to go straight up to the deck clean out, it will make unclogging the drain much easier. A simple batten will work to unclog the bottom of the tank. This is how our Leopard 46 was designed and I was glad to not have to remove the lid on a full tank inside of the boat!
For the waste tubing, go with pic #1. Keep it simple. From toilet to holding tank to overboard. And it might keep you from getting in hot water if you forget to close a thru hull and get boarded. Also wouldn't keep the thru hull open, Let the tank fill then empty, then close thru hull, and repete. That way all solids have a way of getting out.. Build is looking great Mads.
Your English has greatly improved
The more complicated plumbing set up has some advantages. With the toilet set to bypass the holding tank but with the seacock closed the toilet will pump water into the tank outlet - can be usefull for clearing blockages.
All is coming together fine, getting in tune with the galley is in another dimension, now there's a dance we can all be happy were not dealing with so strapon your thinking cap and dance, dance, dance..(jk) Mads it will all be fine, looking spiffier than new coveralls without paint or glue stains. No comment from me about the PP comment..hee hee !!
If I am thinking about it correctly, the anti-siphon above the head in Option A is to prevent the holding tank from emptying back through the head. The holding tank acts as the anti-siphon for the sea water, but sailboats and healing over can cause unique circumstances between the holding tank and the head if you don't have a siphon break between them.
One benefit of hose over pipe; hose will flex with motion and expand/contract with temperature far easier than pipe.
Yes, I do have pipe in some locations on my freshwater system, but the bulk of the plumbing is marine grade, use specific flexible tubing.
I can’t get workers like you!!
Hi Mads,
you should think a second time about the orientation of your toilet ;-) . A seaworthy toilet should not be oriented athwartships since in most conditions the rolling motion is much heavier than the pitching one. Ideally you can sit on the toilet facing forward and being restrained on both sides. Just imagine using your design on starboard tack even in medium conditions. You are facing downwards (which human beings don't like at all) and need to somehow (?) support yourself against being hurled towards the far away door ! That said, you have done a really admirable job in refitting Athena.
Wiring should have a raceway with a sealed one through the bathroom instead of the usual rats nest I see in most (if not all) yachts. There are a ton of different designs of regular commercial raceways that would work in a boat. Or you could use a PVC pipe going through the bathroom at least. Something that you could have the option of being able to clean out mold, insects or even Tribbles.
You are doing it right with all the provisions for "trouble". I am very happy with my DIY composting head. Been using it for a year now, works great.No complexity, and no trough holes at all.
No problem with the coast guard?
@@williamhoskins7818 The coast gard is very far away here in Holland. Here in Europe it is just not allowed to dump overboard. It's up to you how you solve the problem.
I had to manually search for your latest video.
Mads, I had the Raritan Elegance in my 27 ft C&C. I loved it. One thing I discovered is that with the macerator the head discharges with the pump very efficiently through the smaller diameter marine hose. I originally installed with large diameter like you are about to install. What I found was that discharge water from the head to the vented loop will need to be run with rinse water to at least clear the portion of hose from head to vented loop. Of course the supplied joker valve generally stops it from back flowing into the head bowl. But the standing sewage discharge should be rinsed with enough water to clear that length of hose. It can add up to a lot of water (fresh or sea water). If you run smaller diameter hose from the toilet up to the vented loop with a hose diameter reducer at the vented loop this standing discharge will be considerably less. You can run the large diameter hose from the output side of the vented loop and the remaking discharge plumbing. After I did this I saved a lot of water and actual performance of the flushing action worked better through the smaller hose. The macerator on the elegance head iWorks very well and I never had any clogging issues. You can see in the instruction that the head has options to run either size discharge hose. This head works so well that I am now installing it on my Hughes 38 that I am in process of rebuild. Your videos are a great help and an inspiration to do projects proper. Thanks
Larry Graham
Got to love that Unobtainium 2000 stove/gimbal assembly.
PVC will go brittle over time. I build and repair caravans. I’ve seen many PVC lines simply crack and shear. Easy to repair but not when we’ll hidden behind bulkheads. You made a wise decision my friend.
Having spent a good deal of time aboard vessels and using the head, I much prefer that the head be mounted just a bit higher than ones you might use at home. An few centimeters will do it. It adds immeasurably to the comfort when at sea. When the head is low, it is not only uncomfortable to squat, but it is also more difficult to maintain your balance when the boat is moving. I recommend raising the head height just a bit. You have the room. Just my .02.
Our 20 gallon tank fills up in about a week or so. So we need to find a pumpout that often when cruising inshore. Going for a 3-mile cruise can be a real PITA sometimes as the inlets around here on the Atlantic ICW are often not very close to where the prime cruising grounds are.
For example Vero Beach, AKA: Velcro Beach, is a popular Florida East Coast cruising location. It is an all day trip to the sea and the nearest inlet to the Atlantic Ocean at Ft. Pierce. (The Sebastian inlet is quite a bit closer but not accessible to sailboats due to a low bridge across it.)
Luckily they do have a mobile pumpout boat that comes right to their moorings -but if you elect to anchor out nearby you will have to come into the fuel dock to get pumped out as the mobile pumpout only services mooring and slip guests of the marina.
Hopefully nobody snatches your prime anchor spot while you are away dispensing with the #2 job.
I like the idea of the gravity feed. We have yet to have our macerator pump fail in two years of cruising but it is only a matter of time before it succumbs to the crappy job it has.
Having a Y-valve before the holding tank is a No-No if you want to cruise the Great Lakes. Big violation if caught with it. The simple fix is to simply remove it temporary and install a short length of PVC pipe instead as a connecting nipple, and cap off the extra hose to the through-hull. When you leave you can reinstall the Y-valve. A simple $5 temporary fix.
I bought a sailboat knowing next to nothing. This channel is a great learning and entertainment resource. Thank you.
My heart really goes out to you. When I was working on my Catalina Morgan 440 [ Fantasy] up in Bellingham, WA. There were a multitude of marine parts and service shops. So parts and service help were just a short walk or drive away, and if they didn't have it it was overnighted. We are so spoiled here in the US. Take care and keep up the good work.
USA was our goto when our dollar had parity, now I can get parts from the UK to Australia in 4 days. There are things we just can't buy here especially for an ex USA boat.
!!!!! Caution!!!!!
In option A don't leave the sea cock open and think it will drain from the tank slowly. What will happen is you will end up with a tank full of paper and a big clogged. Always have plenty of water in the tank so when the valve is opened it can flow out in a rush. If you don't you better have lots of coat hangers to clean up with. LOL
Re gimbal. Make a generous allowance for the weight of pots of food on top of the stove when calculating the best point of balance and for clearance of said pots when it swings. As someone mentioned below, adding mass at the bottom is not out of the question.
You might want to consider running a conduit from the tech room into the vanity cavity (and maybe beyond?) for electrical and whatnot. Much easier to fish wire through a pipe than through holes in cavities. Great video as per usual.
Great comment from a very experienced boater! I would add to put in multiple pipes because as they fill it can be hard if not impossible to always get another wire through. So always leave a pull line in place and another tube 4 spare. Much better to have 3 medium-sized tubes then one large one.
@@charliecruzen3394 Yes, and put them on the warm side of the insulation so it does not condensate.
Usually you want the heavier things on the boat moved as close to the bottom and near the center of gravity as possible, it's supposed to be important for how the boat moves.
Come on mate, you love tapping and grinding. You are not fooling us mate.BTW she is looking good.
I know this is a bit late in your build, but have you ever saw a head/sink that you see in jails or prisons? They are all one piece and stainless. Seems like a perfect combo since inmate cells are short on room
Rigid PVC is definitely less permiable than flexible plus it's been used in houses for decades with no issues.
Would have bet the farm you would have installed a composting head !
@16:15 sitting in the head "... but there is a lot of head-scratching ...", hahaha, LOL
Thanks for making my Sunday viewing time worthwhile. Looking forward to next week.
Ah, my favorite time of the WEEK!! Sail Life video time!!!
Thank you so much! :)
Hi Mads, great episode. I don't know if you know but Johan, Malin & Vera from RAN Sailing were saying in a recent episode of their channel that they could be looking for a replacement gimbled stove for their new boat and I thought I'd just pass on the message in case no one else did. See you.
You get a like for the Unobtanium 2000 label on your stove gimbal!
Love it!
Good to see you working again Madds it’s all coming along spiffy
On this side of the pond home toilets have p-traps to hold water and anti-siphoning vent stacks to keep water in the pipe so sewer gases don't come back into the house. Without the water in the sewer line you wasted a lot of money on low permeability hose cause it's going to stink and it won't be coming through the wall of the hose.
Great progress as usual. I like the idea of a deck fill for the holding tank - with Ava peeing every 10 mins using the deck fill may be your only option.😂😂⛵️
as always, excellent work mads! I just taught my wife how to make filits and tab last week... she is turning into a fiberglass fiend! Cheers ~
In the US it's now (as of 20 Jan 2020) illegal for fiberglass dust to itch. We love our Legislature!
So far, I've heard no confirmation of any itchiness from fiberglass workers.
...and I have no idea why they chose 20 January.
Aloha dude! Love 'ya, and nā mahalo. Pōmaikaʻi īa ʻolua. :) 🤙
Hello Mads, Don’t know if you are considering a recessed kick plate for your vanity build , but I would consider adding it into your build. Most aircraft vanities don’t have one and it is very awkward to use the vanity bowl without the recessed kick plate. Not sure of other vessels use this configuration at the bottom of the cabinet. Enjoy your work. Good luck!
Unobtainium 2000 😂I look forward to your videos every week. Thank you Mads :)
Of course we love the video. All are great. Makes the week waiting and seeing. Thank you so much for sharing...
Good info on the loo vented loop!
Great Job Mads. I have option A and wish I had option B with my Jabsco electric flush because I would be diverting all number ones directly outside and saving room in the holding tank for the nasty number twos. i have no problem adding a little sterile pee into a marina or the ocean. Put in a Y valve marked 1 and 2. Keep up the good explanations.
Have you considered a composting head?
@@JimKJeffries Hi Jim. I've seen and read about composting heads and they look like a very good option, especially if you're limited with pumping out. I have been on cruising yachts that have them and owners swear by them. Cruisers often stay in one place for longer and empty holding tanks regularly. Here in NZ the rules are minimal (empty in 5m and 500m off shore) and boaties I know follow this. I'll stick with my type A because it's only a problem when a lady is on board which isnt that often.
@@JimKJeffries There's a good chance he's considered it and has determined that it's not for him, as it looks like, according to this video, he's installing a holding tank.
@@acmeopinionfactory8018 perhaps, however he has run most of his ideas through the TH-cam/ hive mindset. There is a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge in the 65K people watching. I dont think I missed one, and was curious as to his reasons. Everyone that has one, from boats to RVs wishes they got one sooner, gives back space, reduces wieght...was just curious. Hope you had a great weekend, and enjoy your week.
@@JimKJeffries I would say that he has run 'some' of his ideas, not most, past the viewers.
It seems that in this case, he didn't even have to poll his viewers as to whether he and his girlfriend should adopt the litter box version of marine sanitation.
Option B for the tank allows you to effectively Pee overboard and thus keep more tank capacity for slightly more solid deposits.
Oh and don’t forget you need to be able to lock the outlet valve from the head/holding tank as in US waters they often do a spot check in certain areas where pumping out is prohibited. Andy UK
Reminds me of a plumbers comment... "We can make your sh*t flow up-hill... it will just cost you more!"
and you definitely do need that anti-siphon valve to prevent the full tank contents from siphoning back through the head ;-)
Mads you were truly missed out here! Hope you had a wonderful with your bride to be! I think you need to make sure you monogram Athena with your name somehow! She is truly going to be one of a kind.
After two weeks of several episodes a day, I’m finally up to date - Love your channel Mads, looking forward to seeing you through the process and not at least, to see you and Ava enjoy the sailing that follows.
Wow, that's a lot of sail life ;) I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. 1 years 3 months till we untie the lines - I can't wait! :D
Sail Life Next time I’m in Skive, I need to go and see Athena
I think it is good to have a valve at the bottom of the holding tank so you do not have standing "brown water" in the hose to the through hull. Maybe you thought about that but it was not included in the diagrams you presented. Thanks for the video, loved it!
More valves = more choices
@@JimKJeffries - More valves = more choices = more things that can go wrong
@@Garryck-1 the failure rate of a good ball valve is pretty low.
Once Athena is finished, and if it were sold new at the standard Mads is achieving, I wonder how much more than the original price the Warrior would cost? IE, if it was a £80,000 boat new, how much more would it have cost to build it to this extraordinary level of unashamed spiffyness (SL11, where 10 is perfection). The quality of this boat when finished will be higher than just about any boat on the water.
Great video! How permeable is that hose.... what about the holding tank and all those joints - less is better I think, so my guess would be for option a and this will keep solids and liquids moving through the tank reducing the risk of crusty sediments. This is one of the most addictive series on TH-cam.
Hopefully the pump from the head (and all associated gaskets and seals) has a long life. Carry spares !
You sound like I feel, go get some sleep. Otherwise you might miss making a video! That oven box looks great too, making me wish I was doing a bigger remodel on my galley so I could do the same.
Looks good. I have 25 years working on boats ships as an engineer accessibility is key. Seams like your cramping your shower y not mount the tank behind the loo. It will be behind you and more out of the way I personally would give up space behind it to get more space in the shower. And in your previous vid I asked why you didn’t do fillets on your other bulkheads unless you just didn’t show them. Also I like how you go simple systems and items over more complex. Also on your stove the usually make a SS rack to hold pots and pans from sliding around on most of the fishing boats around here Ketchikan Alaska.
I totally agree the space behind the toilet is ideal, why not use it ?
Seems like the shower is a good spot to me. The space is fairly useless and leaves a good amount of space for dry storage above the toilet. It also seems working on it will be simple as just open a shower wall. I think if he put the tank above the toilet he would be forced to move the toilet forward or aft and inward for the tight hose bend.
Sailing Luana Cordelia true he my have a tight hose bend. I see what your saying. There appears to be enough room back there that’s already wasted space with the throne in the way. A nice way to keep you back straight while doing the deed. I know in the shower he’s outboard towards the hull pritty far but that would really cramp an already small shower. Mads there is also composting toilets and a buddy has one and loves the fact his sailboat doesn’t have that waste tank smell that almost all boats have.
Here's a thought: You've mentioned using the 'dead' space to the right of the vanity, behind the head bulkhead and behind/below the holding tank. Having just rewired my old boat, may I suggest you run some pvc pipe segments in the actual spaces you intend to use? Not the whole run, just pieces in each area. That way you'll see what may interfere with your plan and give you an estimate of how much wire conduit (pipe) you'll need for the job.
Option 1; simple is usually better. Besides, if you want to add on later, better than disconnect. to deduct, it's less mess. For U.S. use, a simple lock on the TH will serve.
Just a head's-up - If you intend to bring Athena to the US Great Lakes, no black water discharge is allowed at all, but with the holding tank, you can disable the direct discharge function to become legal.
Or he could add a shut off valve with a lock out
Option B adds redundancy, in case the tank cloggs, or cracks, or becomes unusable any other way. My vote would be for option B :)
Thank you so much for your excellent content :)
Hi there. of course option B is much better - talking from experience, also i would like to suggest you to put rubber stripes at all sides of the holding tank to prevent Scuffs and cracks that may occur due to all the ship's vibrations. beautiful job .
Something I have been thinking about regarding Athena is what will be the net change in weight off all the changes. Boat designers pay close attention to weight and center of gravity. When you were marking the waterline it seemed that you are assuming it will be the same as before. This may not be the case. The plywood deck core and bottom frame reinforcement surely added weight. Maybe other changes reduced weight. I would estimate that your waterline will change roughly 1” for every 1500 pounds of weight change. Have you given any consideration to that?
Just dicovered your channel a week ago and I'm madly trying to get up to date. I enjoy your enthusiasim for this project and I'm looking forward to all the episodes to follow.
So exciting, getting back to doing the galley.love watching everything come together..😉🤟🏻⛵
terrific attention to detail....riveting stuff......
In US ports you must have sealed black water tanks and sea cocks emptying overboard are banned. Eventually this may become universal so composting toilets may be a better option.
I used the exact same hose and it's absolutely smell-free ;-) (after 2 years) and my setup is like option 'A' with the vented tank itself as a anti-siphon - works great and is simple.
Great job 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great stuff Mads, as always.
Now, I'm an architect, and terminological exactitude really can be the difference between success and disaster, so I can get a bit pedantic. In a bathroom, you wash your hands in a basin, not in a sink. A sink is for dishes etc in a kitchen, or for clothes etc in a utility. So, unlike you, I'm looking forward to the arrival of your new hand basin. :)
In the USA and the Galapagos Islands you are not allowed to have your head dump straight into the water. You have to have a holding tank and a deck pump out.
Хорошо у тебя получается. Недавно узнал о твоём канале и пересмотрел уже все видео. Хочу приобрести себе подержанную парусную яхту и всё там переделать под себя. Удачи тебе и жду следующих видео.
If it ain't cramped, it ain't plumbing 😉
Mads went full Carhartt after Christmas. Wonder what he got from Santa Claus. Glad your back.
1 Year, 3 Months is also pretty momentous in our family, I retire from work in Year 3 Months and 14 Days and 19 days later we'll have been Married for exactly 46 Years!
Congrats. Your 26 years ahead me.
Imagine that holding tank 3/4 full - not lightweight by any means - now put the boat in a rough seaway with maybe some rolling and slamming. Sure the holding tank supports are strong enough?
unobtainium love it
After "Glorious Sanding," you should be AKA "Glass Master" Aloha from Hawaii!
Great progress.
Great job yet again!
A tiny bit of advice from a liveaboard. As you’re finalizing the design for your vanity, keep the trash bin in mind. If you can tuck it somewhere that tiny head will be so much more tidy. In our case, each head has two trash bins: one for regular trash and smaller one for toilet tissue. With your gravity tank you really don’t want to flush toilet paper. Trust me.
Keep in mind, the shorter the run to the holding tank, the more capacity of the tank you can use. Regardless of type of hose what wears them out is waste sitting in them. The recommended practice for odor is to pump the contents of the head all the way to the holding tank. You should google Peggy the headmistress. So with all the that said, I would forego the vented loop on the head discharge since it’s going to a vented holding tank that is above the waterline. However in any water fill lines you definitely want one.
Lastly, probably too late but when on a long port tack, holding tank outlet may not be above waterline. All this would mean is you may not be able to fully drain the tank. Just something to weigh out.
Save room for an inline air filter (deodorizer). Trust me.. you will need it. Especially when it's located at the shower. There's always that weird funky nursing home odor that will escape. Nothing is 100% sealed. I work on large vessels and yahts. So yeah.. they really do help. And need to be changed about once a year.
It’s about time you got back to work.
Things are looking good.
Hehe, all work and no play ... ;)
@@SailLife Why do I think that this is all play.
you might want to put some rubber between the wood/fiberglass and the plastic tank so it doesn't rub through the tank. may or maynot be an issue but a hole in that tank would not be fun to clean.
Mads: ho ho hose, this should be the hose i have been waiting for.
Snoop dog is proud of you.
😁😉
Mads,
Something to consider when you build the new tank, in the US now there is a big push to regulate holding tanks, and they are starting to require 15 gallons per person at many of the marinas here, and are inspecting tanks for size. It looks like you have more than enough room there to build a tank that will be large enough when the time comes. I ran into an issue with this on my boat as it only had a 20 gallon tank.
Great planning and execution. I hate marine heads. Having taken apart more than one due to plugs you get an aversion to them. May I ask why you are not installing a maceration head? Till next time.
With borders on you induction cooktop, I hope you don't have any pots or pans that are bigger than the cooktop circles.
Heads looking good Mads good to see you back …
Always interesting.
Looks like Unobtanium 2020 to me.
Mads, excellent. - Good timing.
I am doing something similar with my holding tank. I had really over-complicated the design for mounting it to the bulkheads and hull and was scratching my head a bit. - I'm now going to copy pretty much exactly what you have done. It looks simple and strong.
Also I am going for gravity discharge option A; except I have decided that I won't put in an anti siphon. As you say, not strictly needed. There isn't a hydraulic lock because of the vent - and the chances of the vent tube blocking are probably less than the siphon itself blocking.
Very good point. I stupidly put an anti siphon valve in just like the one Mads got and you could clearly smell the holding tank because of it.
For fibreglass itch I’ve had good luck with an immediate HOT shower followed by a cold shower. The theory is that you sweat the dust out of your pores, wash it away, then the cold water slams your newly cleaned pores shut. Think Finnish Sauna - something maybe you have nearby. Maybe that would be better?
A sauna will do the job. We finns are lucky...
I lived in a camping trailer for the summer. It had a hook up to gravity drain the holding tank. I was told not to leave it open all the time. I was told to let it fill up then drain it. The reason I was given was that if you leave it open then the moisture drains out and the bits of feces left behind begin to harden and collect, eventually leading to a blockage. Might be something to look into?
I vote option 1 for your plumbing layout. I feel it best to keep things running through. I would think you would have to flush it before you plan to not use it for a while. Option 2 requires likely having to fix a pump at some point, as opposed to a leak in your shower which as you said can just be washed away. I like the simplicity:)
Looking absolutely fantastic!!
i hope your conversion never stops. don't know what else i should do on a Sunday evening! your videos are amazing keep up the o glorious work man!
Making great progress. More time you spend planning, generally the better the job. I follow KISS, keep it simple stupid but that is not to say the simple is always better. Seems to me this is an area that needs some failure and repair analysis to be sure all the "Oh Crap's", pun intended are covered. Can you fix a head pump motor without the tank draining, can I get at all the hose band clamps, what happens if the tank exit gets plugged or a valve starts to drip. etc. The analysis may not show anything, but forces some critical system thinking. Document what parts or special tools one would need, do I need to order a 50mm or 100mm replacement band clamp and oh yea if I use a swivel, and a 200mm extension with a 10 degree bend I can get at the upper clamp.
Regarding the gimbal placement. A safety issue arises when the gimbal is active. If the oven door opens. At best you can spill the dinner or worse, Whatever's on the stove will slide forward due to the balance offset, boiling water, hot grease, etc. Since baking and stovetop cooking may occur simultaneously is there any design that counteracts this? Great videos, one of my favorite channels. Where do you get your energy?