Is Desperate Attack TOO Good?

Let's review the news for the week and end with a discussion about Desperate Attack!
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0:00 - Intro
12:05 - Is Desperate Attack broken?
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This video references the Savage Worlds game system, which is available from Pinnacle Entertainment Group at www.peginc.com. It is unofficial Media Content permitted under the Media Network Content Agreement. Pinnacle Entertainment Group does not manage, approve, or endorse this content. Certain portions of the materials used are the intellectual property of Pinnacle, and all rights are reserved. Savage Worlds, all related settings, unique characters, locations, characters, logos, and trademarks are copyrights of Pinnacle Entertainment Group.
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[@peterb.saloom8667]

Thanks so much for mentioning my new adventure Shadows of the Sacred Hills! I hope you really enjoy it when you run it for your group.

[@TheSavageGoose]

I am super excited to! So far, I agree with that review you on DTRPG! Once I run it, I will add my review as well!

[@peterb.saloom8667]

I would really appreciate that!
@@TheSavageGoose

[@Werebat]

Desperate Attack should be compared to Wild Attack as well as ordinary attacks, as Wild Attack is also always an option. Compared to a regular attack, Desperate Attack is only ever a bad choice if you end up rolling high enough that you would have gotten a Raise without it.
As a GM I was leery of it until I realized that it actually beefs up mook Extras a lot more than it helps the players.
How often are your mook Extras getting Raises on your players with normal attacks?
The only problem there is players may howl about it if you use it too much, but then you can always give them the option of banning Desperate Attack at the table...

[@richardmiller9883]

I've never seen it used as a player or GM. Which seems odd because if you take the -4 damage there's hardly any downside, since getting the original target number gets you a raise which pretty much offsets the penalty (even at just a d6). There's also the concern of combining it with a Touch Attack or Called Shot.

[@DocFlamingo]

Rule bloat. My game has options for "Increased Attack' (bonus to attack, penalty to defense) and "Increased Defense" (the reverse). If you're doing it out of aggression or desperation isn't relevant. You can fine-tune yourself into oblivion but it's generally a bad idea to try. An important life lesson I learned in the army: No matter how well something works you can always improve upon it until it ceases to function entirely.

[@jcraigwilliams70]

Desperate Attacks are "frantic efforts" while Called Shots require aiming for a specific target. They are not compatible. I would also say that you "pay" for a Desperate Attack with a penalty to your damage. If you can't pay that penalty (because you do no damage) then you can't access the move.
Also say that Desparate Attack need to be narratively appropriate. The character is making an exceptional effort. By definition, an exceptional effort is not a standard attack, so it's not something to be done every round.
Rulings, not rules. As a GM, you enforce what you believe works best for your game. If the move causes problems, adjust it to fit your game, or remove it. Just be consistent in the application of your rulings.

[@ugh_dad]

Since a touch attack already gets a +2 bonus for doing no damage, it feels strange to add another bonus for doing less damage

[@TheSavageGoose]

Agreed. It feels like there should be some sort of limit to when you can use Desperate Attack.

[@NathanPatrickLane]

I played Savage Pathfinder as a Monk. Desperate Attack meant I could consistently hit the d10 Bonus Damage and inflicted Distracted or Vulnerable and all the stuff you were talking about. For Monk, I felt all the bonuses on melee attacks were balanced out by the fact that Monks are melee specialists who can't wear armor - a dangerous predicament in a fantasy setting where armor and gangs of melee enemies are the norm. I was just really happy that Monks were finally cool in Savage Pathfinder compared to d20 Monks.

[@Yaffar]

I could think of some things to give the desperate attack some downgrades:
-no multi-attacks this round
-no called shots
-count as basic, no touch bonus, no use of egdes like frenzy, sweep, etc. allowed
-next round no desperate or wild attack allowed
These downgrades dont need to used all at once

[@MisanthropicPrime]

My PF game had two characters with Monk and Eldrich Knight edges and Desperate Attack allowed them to easily trigger Raise Effects. I don't know what % less those effects would have triggered without D.A., but I know two things: 1) it felt overpowered, and 2) probably didn't break the balance.
Compared to wild attack, for some PC and NPC/monsters Desperate Attack becomes the only choice too often. It might not be game breaking, but if it becomes a non-choice then it's not a good mechanism to have in the game.
Maybe the +2 version is fine as is, but the +4 version would be best dropped or cause the attacked to be Distracted.

[@Cavemancavan]

I just wont allow it for called shots or touch attacks. If all youre trying to do is lightly slap someone just to get the attack off? Thats literally a touch attack.

[@curseofyig6727]

I'll leave Desperate Attack out of my campaign. Savage Worlds is so slick and great and it irks me that this rule creeped in to its lean and mean mechanics.

[@jannevalkeapaa]

A friendly hint: ad is way too long and unclear what it offers. It also started before I was committed/hooked to the video, so I just left. I have no idea what's the rest of the vid about. Hope you all the best.

[@TheSavageGoose]

What ad?

[@MisanthropicPrime]

Yeah, there was no ad unless TH-cam added one in the middle. Unless you’re referring to the Kickstarter news

[@TheSavageGoose]

Right, which isn't an ad. It's kind of a news live stream so... Eh. Whatever.
I'm modeling the show style a little after Nick Nimmin and Mike Shea (Sly Flourish)

[@nickmayhew9722]

Great video, but it would be better if you didn't show your face and filled the screen with the screen that you are sharing.

[@TheSavageGoose]

Noted!