11 More Details in Jackson’s “Fellowship of the Ring” that Only LOTR Superfans Would Notice
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2024
- Minor changes come fast and thick in this section of the movie, and several of them have significant storytelling implications.
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As a huge fan of the movies and books I love this series! Most of these I’ve noticed myself, but some I realize I’d either forgotten about the difference or just never noticed it.
Very good, melon Geek. As I recall, the Watcher didn't raise Frodo up in the air. However, when they fled into the entrance, it reached out of the water and swung the doors so that they crashed and seemingly brought down part of the masonry. They could hear the beast uprooting the great holly trees on either side of the doors as well. We never saw in the story the grotesque creature that Jackson used in the movie. Tolkien kept it all mysterious and therefore even more sinister. But the strength of the monster was definitely great. Namarie.
I think in Moria Sam also got a wound on his head but killed the orc who gave it to him
Minor nitpicks:
1. The cave troll does appear in the book a bit: As the troll is trying to force its way in, Frodo stabs it in the foot and it flees, without entering the room.
2. Also, the orc-chieftain doesn't throw his spear, but thrusts it at Frodo. Sam's strike breaks the shaft afterwards, and as the orc-chieftain is drawing his scimitar, Anduril cleaves through his helmet.
You know what I was probably thinking of the Bakshi film lol.
@@TolkienLorePodcast And why wouldn't you, as it is the best version of the Fellowship put to screen. :P
But yeah, there the orc-chieftain threw his spear.
Frodo still stabs the troll in the foot: "For Shire!"
@anarionelendili8961 I think it’s not 100% clear that’s a troll though. It’s still an inference.
@@TolkienLorePodcast There are in fact a few things from Bakshi that aren't in Tolkien that made it into Jackson's film. I'm thinking of the Nazgul in Bree, invading the Prancing, going into the hobbit's room, surrounding the beds with their raised swords, and attacking - only to be met with clouds of feathers.
Doesn't happen that way at all in the book, where it's implied that it was agents employed by the Nazgul that did the deed, not the Nazgul themselves. It was such an iconic scene I think I think Jackson simply decided to copy it.
@@TolkienLorePodcast If so, it is an inference Gandalf himself makes:
`Now is the time! ' cried Gandalf. `Let us go, before the troll returns!'
I choose to think that Gandalf knew what he was talking about. :)
22:00 - This is just my head canon, but it's possible that Aragorn, while not fluent in the Dwarf language, at least recognizes their insults/profane expressions, and that anyone who spends even a little bit of time around an ill-tempered Dwarf will likely hear such an expression. I know several people who aren't fluent in Spanish but know all the swear words just from being around others.
Fantastic point friend
@@RamBear88Thank you!
I wondered why Legolas identifies the Crebain and later Shadowfax as one of the Mearas since it is doubtful he would know about either. I guess the screenwriters wanted to give him more lines. The Watcher in the Water must have been incredibly strong given he smashed the doors to bits and uprooted the huge Holly trees. Thanks for the Superfan content looking forward to more.
Fair point about the watcher, but the ability to grab and pull isn’t the same as the ability to lift, kinda like how Spider-Man’s webs have enormous tensile strength but can be cut fairly easily. And I think with Legolas they also wanted to make the one Elf the guy who knew everything lol.
Yes, I was going to say, it uprooted the holly trees, which were enormous. The doors were well balanced so it wouldn't take much strength to close them, but the trees would have required a lot of strength.
It's also sort of possible that the Ring was partly why Frodo could sense the evil in the water?
7:24: while not as ominous as it was in the book, wolves can be heard howling as the Fellowship are trying to get into the doors of Durin. They can be heard when the moon shines, and as Aragorn and Sam are unloading Bill, you can faintly hear wolf howls. Not as ominous or pressing as in the book, but present.
I just have to say your impression of Gimli made me spit my coffee across the room. Hahahahaha!! That impression of Jon Rys version of Gimilibwas so spot upon n wow !!$😮
It's a matter of interpretation, but I wouldn't call the troll fight an easy one for the Fellowship.
Certainly not, but he’s a clear example of a “mini boss” lol
7:24 Though the wolves aren't actually mentioned in the movie, If you listen carefully to the music, there is the sound of wolves howling throughout the whole Moria scene.
11:32 Also as you said, in the film Aragorn and Boromir perform great courage and prowess when fighting the Watcher. This is vastly different from the book where only Sam comes to help Frodo. The others are actually all terrified. " ‘Into the gateway! Up the stairs! Quick!’ shouted Gandalf leaping back. Rousing them from the horror that seemed to have rooted all but Sam to the ground where they stood, he drove them forward."
Keep it up mate! Love your content:))
Really? I’ve never noticed the wolf howls at all lol.
I thought it was implied that the Watcher was very large and strong when it uprooted trees and barricaded the door.
Yes, but lifting strength and pulling strength are two different things.
I've always had a theory about the orc chieftain that attempted to skewer Frodo during the fight in the Chamber of Mazarbul, that he was an emissary from Mordor, and knew that the ring bearer was a halfling and so specifically targeted Frodo.
He seems to have deliberately gone for Frodo for some reason, that is sure. Whether it was the One Ring calling him or something, who knows.
10:49 I think Aragorn is also acting out of intuition and his dialogue and body language communicate the fact that he doesn't like the look of the pool so he doesn't really have to explain why he would want them to stop in my opinion.
There's one more thing in Moria I picked up. In the movie, right before the fight against the goblins, Gimli is standing on the Balin's tomb. Maybe I'm overreacting, but it looks like a huge disrespect to me, especially since in the book "Gimli hewed the legs from under another [orc] that had sprung up on Balin's tomb".
Happy Tolkien Reading Day!
In the movie Aragorn is knocked unconscious when Frodo gets stabbbed yet when Frodo wakes up he gives that comment about wild boar as if he saw what happened.
The halflings are called like that by Boromir maybe not because of old Gondorian fairy tales (Boromir doesn't seem to be the person to listen to those) but from his prophetic dream. "And the halfling forth shall stand".
Hm, you talk about the passage I referred to in our little argument on when flying nazgul first appear. It was back in the age of the lamps though so I do not expect you to remember.
There is a way that Aragorn understanding Gimli's curses made sense. Elrond could speak Khuzdûl - being the greatest loremaster in all Middle-earth (we also see him reading the dwarvish map in The Hobbit). And Aragorn was raised in Rivendell by Elrond. We know that Aragorn could speak Westron, Sindarin, Quenya and Rohirric, so he was well-educated and well-travelled. But he could also have learnt Khuzdûl during his studies at Rivendell. I think this scene in the film is partly meant to show the viewer how much of the world and its lore and languages Aragorn knows (he's not just a "mere Ranger"). Apparently, in the film Gimli says: "Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul!" meaning "I spit upon your grave!" (not to be confused with Thorin's curse in The Hobbit movies of "îsh kakhfê ai-‘d-dûr-rugnul" - "May I urinate upon the naked-jawed [unbearded Elves]"). But the thing is, Tolkien never revealed much about Khuzdûl, so I'm not sure how a linguistic consultant like David Salo (who was brought in by Peter Jackson for the franchise) could even have come up with such full sentences in Dwarvish without making up a lot of the vocab and grammar himself.
I like at how the terminology of a "superfan" just entered into the lexicon now without a second thought, Just in time for second season of The Abomination.
The second season is like a sword of Damocles for me, I must watch Tolkien content, there is no other option, though I know it will be painful and abomination is accurate.
@@neildaly2635 I really never understood that. It's the same thing we see happening with the Halo tv show right now. People concede it sucks but they watch it anyway. Why? Do you have nothing better o do? So wrapped up are you in the idea of being a Tokien fan that nothing exists beyond that? You'd rather see the corporate shill overlords have their way with it rather then just refrain from consooming the product? Alright, whatever, have fun.
I have loved Tolkien’s World for well over 40 years and have found nothing to compare to it. If I could stop the corporate shills from making it by not watching, I would. I can’t get my wife to stop ordering crap from Amazon so I have prime but I would cancel that if I could which would solve that problem. Anyhow the first season was so bad it was funny in a mystery science theater way.
I like this series and am looking forward to more.
I think the most important thing about changing the orc to troll is the fact a troll would definitely kill Frodo, because a mail shirt does not protect you from being crush. In the book he was a little crushed just by the orc.
Which is why they had to have the troll miss with the main spike just to the side lol
I always assumed Gimli knew enough Elvish to curse in it and that is what he was doing it.
That language was way too harsh to be Elvish lol
I just thought it was Elvish with a down East accent 😁
Actually I’m pretty sure Sam does cut off the tentacle that first grabs Frodo by the foot, and then all the others come out and another one grabs Frodo and then Aragorn chops that second one off
I would think Legolas would be very familiar with death being present at the fall of Gondolin.
Different Legolas. ;)
I think the whole thing about Bill the pony is a little bit silly, since in the movie there is no payoff. So it doesn't really matter what they do with him. If you have only ever seen the film then Bill is just something that makes Sam sad
I now gather that Bill should have gotten top Billing!,
Haven't read the books in years and don't speak elvish so I thought gimli was insulting him IN elvish lol
I honestly thought in Moria with Gandalf you were going to say that he was intentionally lost for a time in regards to Gollum, and chose to go down because it "smelled better" IE opposite direction of Gollum
Question: Why would the Nazgul already be flying around the Misty Mountains? I thought Sauron ordered them to stay east of the river until he was ready for his main assault.
I suspect that means specifically as combatants in battle, not spy in the sky lol.
@@TolkienLorePodcast ah ha
ok so two points on the whole khuzdul thing.
1. I always just assumed Aragorn is using context clues like the tone of Gimli's voice to understand he is insulting Haldir
2. There is a version of the movie with the subs I think, I'm almost certain I've seen the subs of what he is saying before and I think it's something like "I spit on your grave" or something
and I don't know, it makes some sense to me that the only dwarven words outsiders might know is a few of the best curses...
It’s possible, but the look on his face and the way he says “that was not so courteous” seems to me to imply more.
@@TolkienLorePodcast That translation isn't 100% complete. The subtitles repeat the phrase twice when Gimli only actually speaks a single line in khuzdul, unless the repeated line was a mistake in editing.
In the movie Sam does save Frodo from the tentacle that first grabs him and begins to drag him. It's just followed up with an action scene worth of more tentacles.
You’re right, I forgot about the let-go-grab-again.
Can somebody remind me if the guard chamber next to the three path ways were they spend the night is in the movies? and if yes, does Pippin throw a rock and hear hammers?
No and no.
👋
Corey Olson makes the case that the object moving faster than the wind is in actuality the eye of sauron, Rather than a nazgul. I think he may be right
It’s certainly a lot like future Nazgul encounters though.