Just to update, i realised shortly after and also as has been pointed out a couple of times that the Franciscan order wasn't founded until the early 13th Century so the monk will have to be a monk from another order 😁
Excellent minis, beautifully painted, very cool bases and the stories behind everything ist great! It is also refreshing that a fellow historian is rather laid back when it comes to all the little details...I like it that you included the "black guard"...great miniatures.
Thanks 😁 I don't see the need to spoil any fun by throwing historical weight about. If you can come up with a plausible reason that something is present then who is anyone to say otherwise 👍🤔
Another Great update Martin, love the Black Guard & those Vignettes! talk about narrative, the animation of the models...you know the unhorsed guy is a Vet, he managed to hold onto his blade! Love the paint job and the historical backdrop. As ever first class👍
Awesome stuff again Martin. Love the Black Guard another unit would look great on the table top. Really enjoy you take on historical stuff with some serious research coupled with believable artistic licence!
Positively love your channel! This project has been wonderful to follow. Your enthusiasm is infectious. I am always enthused to work on my projects after watching your videos. Thanks for sharing and keep up the outstanding work Martin!!
Stunning! Great painting can bring ordinary figures to life. I saw pictures of the black guard on the sprue and thought they looked quite ordinary but your painting and he formation you have them in make them look great. I prefer the Reconquer black guard for my own collection though.
Thanks very much 👍 the Reconquer are great but in this instance i wanted so many (at the time) it made more sense to het this box as i would have clst 3 times as much to get them printed by a 3rd party licensed seller, however now i have a printer so i may make a command base from the RD ones 👍
3DBreed has some moorish infantry that come in a requinquista pack with Spanish warriors too. Could add some extra variations to your miniatures! Your paint jobs and ability to put the dioramas together is astounding!
Great use of different models together, and the black guard stands work perfectly in that layout as if it was one big stand. I probably would be lazy and call the Franciscan “Francis” just to keep it memorable
You are doing a bangup job of painting these guys Martin. You have consistent attention to detail, a solid style, bloody lovely work. The Arab costumes give you lots of room to be free with color and it looks amazing. Steeds are quite nice as well. Hobby on sir!
Be cool for Gilbert and ultred were a two dice tiny unit where you attribute 1 colour to each character and keep a tally of successful attacks with the one behind gets a +1 to their roll. Then if 1 wound is given, roll 1-3/4-6 to determine who gets the wound and Gilbert gets a +2 to his defence roll, while ultred gets +2 attack roll to save their companion. Then if routed they become an objective marker to capture.
"And he shall be called...Brian!" Lol Do they have the common "bastards name" at this point? I know it happened a lot in later medieval periods. Loving all the figures Martin and some real characterful bases that really will add to the cinematic of your battles
I think there was a moniker for them but im not sure how common it was. Lots of 2nd sons and Bastard sons went on crusade as a way to gain wealth as they were lut of the line of succession Really pleased you like it mate 😁
Very interesting , love the figuers and the basing , helps me with my DAK force. ,The preist figuer , could be used once in a game as a ` Religious fervour Rule ,to a 1+ on moral `, the three d printed horse as superbe , a great paint job , How robust are 3d printed models on the wargaming table.
Really pleased you like it 😁👍 theu are pretty robust, I've dropped one of them while painting and nothings happened, it's all about which resin has been used though 👍
looks fantastic - looking forward to how it develops. My theory is the anglo saxon and norman bastards share a parent ... to be disastrously/hilariously revealed to them by some old dying lag in the finale of the campaign... A hollow square would be a pretty accurate formation for the byzantines - they fought like that in the period immediately before manzikert/the first crusade (there's references to it in the tactical manuals of the era) and there's a battle just before/during the first crusade where the byzantines under alexios komnenos use the formation again successfully to make a 'strategic retreat' from a seljuk horde at the end of the campaign - with the lesser armoured/camp followers sheltering in the middle of the hollow square.
How about William of Baskerville (Italian: Guglielmo da Baskerville) who was a Franciscan friar created by Umberto Eco for his novel "The Name of the Rose"?Although it is set in 1327! That isn't a problem but it would appear that the Order of St Francis didn't exist at the time of the first crusade and St Francis himself lived in the late 12th/ early 13th century.
Wonderful stuff and always an inspiration. Just embarking on a First Crusade project and it was very interesting hearing about the Tafurs. Do you think Dark Age Irish would work as from what I've been reading they are described as in sackcloth and are bare footed.
Thanks, I'm really pleased with how they've come out. I just use a superglue gel to fix them but as i use a basing paste as well i pop them on when its nearly dry that helps as well 👍
Well if we’re going with a monk based name. I’d suggest Frier Estienne (French medieval form for Stephen) or Frier Gosse (French medieval form for Gozzo). As for potential special rules. On a basic level, having them attached to a unit should give them the brave and stubborn rules (or maybe a fanatics like rule where they can’t be forced back/broken unless on snake eyes no matter what) and like your characters a +2 for the lads (one per each warrior). And like a character in combat you roll for them in combat. They can be wounded and lose one attack - one of them is wounded/killed or whatever reason. If killed the unit they are with immediately breaks due to a faltering of faith. If captured the unit is disordered and MUST fight to save him and any other crusaders in initiative range must attempt to save the holy man too. Edit: as for your spare horse lads. I’d definitely throw one in with the infantry as a nice representation of him being a stand out commander. And I’d make the other 2 into a Byzantine liaison command group. While the crusaders “promised” to give the land back everyone knew they were likely too. So I do remember there being talk of a handful of byzantines sent around with them to essentially “hold them to their oaths” and “keep the peace” with the local Christians/ex-Byzantine subjects unlike for the peasant crusade treated them (yeah the peasant crusade was a disaster). I’d have it that a crusader force can have them along which allows them to bring Byzantine forces and maybe provides them with a better “local” presence. However it could effect relation problems and maybe even command (maybe a -1 on crusader commanders who weren’t to reliable/friendly with the Byzantine’s representing the potential bickering in command structure).
All brilliant ideas, will definitely be making note of these. Im pleased you enjoyed the video The Byzantines should be fun, im thinking that a small unit of the Varangian guard would have been assigned to protect the general.. . Just because 😁😉
All fantastic, I think the painting is getting better? If that was possible. Really liked the monk and warriors base.... perhaps a command for a peasant unit....
Fireforge should be paying you for painted pics of their new models, their site still doesn't have their own XD (Would love to see you do their other new Berber Infantry kit, I'd been curious how the Black Guard looked but I straight up couldn't find any painted pics elsewhere)
I like your black guard. Gripping beast do some great metal black guard. I put a unit of them in my saga mutawiiha army as an elite unit of warriors. I think they are from the moorish faction but they are very cool looking troops.
Hello mate, soni prime them black then Dona medium dry brush all over with a dark grey. I then pick out the details before adding strong tone wash. once dry I highlight any details as needed then do an all over dry brush with Deck Tan and that's about it 👍
Great project and nice minis that are very effectively painted and based. But in terms of history you are kind of making it up, aren't you, using figures whose armour costume and shield types are not right for the period, just chucking in any model you like the look of. Your final command base here has a guy in a surcoat. Would you field a WWII German infantry unit wearing Pickelhauben? Not a crime of course, but why not do a 2nd /3rd Crusade army at the same time? You could mix and match some of the units.
I've taken a little time to think how to reply to this. First, thanks for taking the time to watch the video and comment, I’m glad you like the paint jobs. With regards to your comment that I’m just making it up as I’m going along I take a bit of an issue with that, so I’m always happy to discuss what I’m doing which i don't always go into in depth in my videos in the interest of not sending a viewer to sleep 😁. While I’ll always ultimately go with what i want because it’s my army and models, i do like to evidence the possibilities. Alot of the models I’m using are representing armies from across Europe at that time (for the Crusaders) and the whole of what is considered the Saracens even though this is a net term taking in Turks, Kurds, Fatimid’s, Seljuks, Berbers and more. I like using the models from the Reconquista which was happening simultaneously the FC as (to me anyway) it would make sense for a lot of the kit to be similar due to the conditions faced by both forces. Certainly as the Crusade progressed the participants started adopting more of the practices of their Eastern counterparts that they found useful such as various coverings on helmets. With regards to the Saracen armies and my use of the Black Guard with the distinctive shields, Saracen leaders became increasingly depended upon mercenaries drawn from across the Muslim world (there is evidence for Berbers serving in Fatimid forces for example) adding to the overall diversity of the Saracen force which keeps things interesting for me as a wargamer and i would put forward, a reasonable assumption to make. Finally, the surcoat - it’s generally accepted that these become more common around the middle of the 12th century so 50/60 years after what I’m depicting however in the interest of making the commander stand out I’m happy for the covering to be on there, it is also a nod to the painting of Robert Curthose by Jean-Joseph Dassy as well as the effigy on his tomb in Gloucester Cathedral where the figure has a red surcoat, clearly not original but a little bit of inspiration. Now that effigy is likely from the late 13th to mid-14th century but i think in the wider context of the project having the odd surcoat / cloth covering here and there isn't stretching the bounds of historical context too much (the Saracen armies would often have troops with cloth coverings over armour and this would be adopted by the crusader states so after 3 years of fighting in the Holy Land I’m sure the odd crusader may have done the same). I always intended on doing the early crusader states with this force and eventually adding in bits for the later Crusades. I hope that sort of sets out my thought process behind this, and i would totally field a unit of German Infantry with Pickelhauben 😅 it might make me paint some. All the best, Martin
@@7thson726 Hi Martin, thanks for the considered and detailed reply and yes, you were right to take issue with was a rather snarky comment of mine! Of course, we can do just what we please - it's a hobby which is meant to be fun. You are clearly very well-informed about this period, which is admirable. I'm doing some small First Crusade armies at the moment so I'm currently in the same research ballpark. I think that research is an intrinsic part of historical wargaming (but not to the level of button counting!) and not everyone who posts on TH-cam seems to engage with this idea. Fine - if someone wants 'factions' then play fantasy games. Part of the fun of historical gaming (for me) is the 'time machine' factor. Can I make my game look historically real? Or can I recreate a historical battle? Or set up battles with historically appropriate adversaries? Or, using my imagination can I pretend I'm actually there commanding an army? Or any of these things individually or in combination. The look of the game isn't always intrinsic to this idea - board games might do it, or gloss-painted 1970s Minifig Normans all in the same pose and painted in the same colours! But I think that there is a point to my 'Pickelhauben' comment. Many historical gamers would think it weird to present a WWII unit in early WWI gear. That kind of discrepancy, of only 25 years, stands out clearly. We are talking about 50-year discrepancies such as surcoats, flattish-topped kite shields, round rather than conical helmets etc. The art of the period gives a pretty clear guide to these aspects. Are they less important because they are 1000 years old and we don't have photos or film?
You talking a lot about anglo-saxon crusader but most of the crusader were Norman, french or occitan. some theory even said that the crusade was designed for Raymond of St-Gilles, count of Toulouse because he said that he would participe to the crusade two days after the concile of Clermont (where he was not and he can't be informed from Clermont to Toulouse in two days plus the fact he know the pope very well and he is known as a wise and patient man and not deciding on a religious ilumination, so the pope should have telling him when he meet him on road to Clermont). I'm not a frenchman just complaining about anglo saxon crusader but keep in mind that crusades and especially the first was mostly a french(and norman and occitan) thing. To have a good idea of who participated the most look at the crusader chief.
I appreciate what your saying 👍 I'm well awarw that the Norman contingent in the 1st Crusade (including elements from Normandy, France, italy and Sicily) formed the majority of the endevour 🙂 I think i mentioned anglo saxons near the start and i was referencing those Saxons who had essentially taken up home in the Byzantine empire in exile and made a home there with the blessing of Alexios Komnenos. However, Its inconceivable to me that some of the participants wouldn't be Saxon given the size of the undertaking, we have records of those for example who followed Robert Curthose and a few are sons of Norman / Saxon Marriages and a couple of saxon names / estates that had sided / capitulated with the Normans at an early date. It's all a bit of fun and juat allows a wider choice. In the case of my little narrative base with Aldred and Gilbert, i think we'll see where the crusade takes them 😁
Just to update, i realised shortly after and also as has been pointed out a couple of times that the Franciscan order wasn't founded until the early 13th Century so the monk will have to be a monk from another order 😁
Excellent minis, beautifully painted, very cool bases and the stories behind everything ist great! It is also refreshing that a fellow historian is rather laid back when it comes to all the little details...I like it that you included the "black guard"...great miniatures.
Thanks 😁 I don't see the need to spoil any fun by throwing historical weight about. If you can come up with a plausible reason that something is present then who is anyone to say otherwise 👍🤔
The guy crawling out from under his horse is a wonderful vignette. Terrific work all round.
He definitely isn't giving up very easily 😅
Nice hobby update Martin. I like the history for your characters it adds more depth to the video.
Cheers Andy 👍🙂 i love looking into the background of all these characters
Excellent looking units love those black guard and the Reconquer figures take some beating looking forward to more of this project
Thanks mate, the RD models really are bloody lovely 🤔
If my Black Giard look half that good, I will be thrilled 👍 All of those models look amazing! Strong work Martin 💪
Really appreciate that, thank you 👍
Another Great update Martin, love the Black Guard & those Vignettes! talk about narrative, the animation of the models...you know the unhorsed guy is a Vet, he managed to hold onto his blade!
Love the paint job and the historical backdrop. As ever first class👍
Really glad you liked it 👍 i was toying with the sword but glad i put it in
Love the way you embrace the history within your projects and don't just churn out figures for the table. Excellent stuff as per.
Absolutely, thanks dude, i seem to want to do more things to help tell a story at the moment 👍
Well these models are beautiful and the future of this project will be blessed by its creator.
Hope all goes well
Thanks very much 👍😁
These guys look amazing. Your channel is very inspiring... thank you
Really appreciate that, thank you,👍
Great update mate. Love what you did with the black guard. I really must get back to my project at some point.
Cheers buddy 👍😁
Those command models look amazing. Its fun to paint well sculpted models. Maybe Robin will have paint up EL Cid to fight the Black Guard .
I like this plan 👍😅
Awesome stuff again Martin. Love the Black Guard another unit would look great on the table top. Really enjoy you take on historical stuff with some serious research coupled with believable artistic licence!
Cheers Paul, gkad you like them, i feel another unit may have to happen, maybe i can model them to have the formation broken on one corner 🤔
Such superb work mate,those command bases have such details
Really appreciate that mate, thanks very much, hope you're keeping well 👍
Re Franciscan monk: that order wasn't founded until 1209.
Yeah i realised soon after haha, so he'll just be a friar 😁
Positively love your channel! This project has been wonderful to follow. Your enthusiasm is infectious. I am always enthused to work on my projects after watching your videos. Thanks for sharing and keep up the outstanding work Martin!!
Thats awesome, thanks very much, pleased you enjoy the content, i really enjoy making it 😁👍
Great work as ever.
Surely the monk has to be Brother Kenneth 😉
Good point 😅
Fantastic update 👍 Love the basing of the Black Guard
Cheers mate, am pretty pleased with it, now want to make more 😁
Stunning!
Great painting can bring ordinary figures to life. I saw pictures of the black guard on the sprue and thought they looked quite ordinary but your painting and he formation you have them in make them look great.
I prefer the Reconquer black guard for my own collection though.
Thanks very much 👍 the Reconquer are great but in this instance i wanted so many (at the time) it made more sense to het this box as i would have clst 3 times as much to get them printed by a 3rd party licensed seller, however now i have a printer so i may make a command base from the RD ones 👍
Great work Martin, I’m really enjoying your first crusade project so far, your command bases and your black guard unit are fantastic 👍
Thanks buddy, glad you like them, i do like making command bases 👍
Reconquest Design figures are super!
100% 👍
Once again you have raised the bar what a fantastic collection ,love the narrative base,look forward to the next battle report .
Hopefully there will be a new one fairly soon in the new year 👍
Great looking minis and a lovely history lesson
Glad you enjoyed it mate 👍
Beautiful stuff……….. brother Ambrose, the flatulent
Thanks buddu, now thats a title to be proud of 😅
Magnificent works😀Monk might be notorious Peter the Hermit
Oooh that's an idea, though, i do have a model in mind for him 😉
Great video! Super fun to see your progress on the project. Love the models and the little stories attached to them.
Thanks, really pleased you like it 👍
3DBreed has some moorish infantry that come in a requinquista pack with Spanish warriors too. Could add some extra variations to your miniatures! Your paint jobs and ability to put the dioramas together is astounding!
Thats awesome, I'll check them out, glad you like the models 😁
wow great work...thanks for the info
No problem, glad you enjoyed it 👍😁
Great use of different models together, and the black guard stands work perfectly in that layout as if it was one big stand. I probably would be lazy and call the Franciscan “Francis” just to keep it memorable
Cheers mate, I'm pleased you liked it 👍
Beautiful figures!
Thanks 😁
excellent looking figures and your explanation of the various leaders and there history is informative and helpful enjoy your channel
Thanks, glad you liked it 👍
You are doing a bangup job of painting these guys Martin. You have consistent attention to detail, a solid style, bloody lovely work. The Arab costumes give you lots of room to be free with color and it looks amazing. Steeds are quite nice as well. Hobby on sir!
Will do 😁 thanks 👍
Great looking project 👍👍
Thanks buddy 😁 i got to see the Normans you traded with Ken the other day, those are lovely 👍
Be cool for Gilbert and ultred were a two dice tiny unit where you attribute 1 colour to each character and keep a tally of successful attacks with the one behind gets a +1 to their roll. Then if 1 wound is given, roll 1-3/4-6 to determine who gets the wound and Gilbert gets a +2 to his defence roll, while ultred gets +2 attack roll to save their companion. Then if routed they become an objective marker to capture.
I really like this idea 👍
"And he shall be called...Brian!" Lol
Do they have the common "bastards name" at this point? I know it happened a lot in later medieval periods.
Loving all the figures Martin and some real characterful bases that really will add to the cinematic of your battles
I think there was a moniker for them but im not sure how common it was. Lots of 2nd sons and Bastard sons went on crusade as a way to gain wealth as they were lut of the line of succession
Really pleased you like it mate 😁
@7thson726 maybe he's a Flashheart! Or "The Black Adder" hahahaha (yea xmas makes me wierd...er)
Fantastic figures mate
Thanks very much 😁
Very interesting , love the figuers and the basing , helps me with my DAK force. ,The preist figuer , could be used once in a game as a ` Religious fervour Rule ,to a 1+ on moral `, the three d printed horse as superbe , a great paint job , How robust are 3d printed models on the wargaming table.
Really pleased you like it 😁👍 theu are pretty robust, I've dropped one of them while painting and nothings happened, it's all about which resin has been used though 👍
Brilliant work Martin, perhaps the monk could be brother Maynard who discovered the holy hand grenade of Antioch [ see Monty Python &the holy grail.
Now, that is a plan 😅
looks fantastic - looking forward to how it develops.
My theory is the anglo saxon and norman bastards share a parent ... to be disastrously/hilariously revealed to them by some old dying lag in the finale of the campaign...
A hollow square would be a pretty accurate formation for the byzantines - they fought like that in the period immediately before manzikert/the first crusade (there's references to it in the tactical manuals of the era) and there's a battle just before/during the first crusade where the byzantines under alexios komnenos use the formation again successfully to make a 'strategic retreat' from a seljuk horde at the end of the campaign - with the lesser armoured/camp followers sheltering in the middle of the hollow square.
Thats brilliant info, thanks very much, i have alot of reading done already but hadn't come across that yet 👍
How about William of Baskerville (Italian: Guglielmo da Baskerville) who was a Franciscan friar created by Umberto Eco for his novel "The Name of the Rose"?Although it is set in 1327!
That isn't a problem but it would appear that the Order of St Francis didn't exist at the time of the first crusade and St Francis himself lived in the late 12th/ early 13th century.
Yeah that would be a bit of an issue 😅 ah well, he'll just be a poor Friar from some Abbey in the sticks 😁
Wonderful stuff and always an inspiration. Just embarking on a First Crusade project and it was very interesting hearing about the Tafurs. Do you think Dark Age Irish would work as from what I've been reading they are described as in sackcloth and are bare footed.
Thanks very much, they sound as if they would be perfect for the Tafurs, I think Gripping Beast have a plastic set 🤔
Great video Martin excellent painting. I have sent you a couple of emails about next year w.o.t.r. battle of Towton cheers grant
Really pleased you like it 👍 awesome I'll heck my email and get back to you 😁
great looking army, how are you securing Reconquer figures to the bases?
Thanks, I'm really pleased with how they've come out. I just use a superglue gel to fix them but as i use a basing paste as well i pop them on when its nearly dry that helps as well 👍
good video thanks
No problem, glad to hear that you enjoyed it 👍
Footsore Miniatures do IMHO the best 7thC to 13thC Armies of the Caliphates figures. A very comprehensive range and great sculpts.
Footsore are very good but given the numbers i like to field i fimd it best to sprinkle them throughout the units here and there 👍
Fabulous.
Martin, what primer did you use for the black guard? Thanks
Thanks very much, I think it was just the GW black spray as I can't remember having anything else, though now I would use Colour Forge 👍
@@7thson726 Many thanks Martin. Appreciated
Nice video !
Thanks mate 👍
Well if we’re going with a monk based name.
I’d suggest Frier Estienne (French medieval form for Stephen) or Frier Gosse (French medieval form for Gozzo).
As for potential special rules.
On a basic level, having them attached to a unit should give them the brave and stubborn rules (or maybe a fanatics like rule where they can’t be forced back/broken unless on snake eyes no matter what) and like your characters a +2 for the lads (one per each warrior).
And like a character in combat you roll for them in combat. They can be wounded and lose one attack - one of them is wounded/killed or whatever reason.
If killed the unit they are with immediately breaks due to a faltering of faith.
If captured the unit is disordered and MUST fight to save him and any other crusaders in initiative range must attempt to save the holy man too.
Edit: as for your spare horse lads.
I’d definitely throw one in with the infantry as a nice representation of him being a stand out commander.
And I’d make the other 2 into a Byzantine liaison command group.
While the crusaders “promised” to give the land back everyone knew they were likely too. So I do remember there being talk of a handful of byzantines sent around with them to essentially “hold them to their oaths” and “keep the peace” with the local Christians/ex-Byzantine subjects unlike for the peasant crusade treated them (yeah the peasant crusade was a disaster).
I’d have it that a crusader force can have them along which allows them to bring Byzantine forces and maybe provides them with a better “local” presence. However it could effect relation problems and maybe even command (maybe a -1 on crusader commanders who weren’t to reliable/friendly with the Byzantine’s representing the potential bickering in command structure).
All brilliant ideas, will definitely be making note of these.
Im pleased you enjoyed the video
The Byzantines should be fun, im thinking that a small unit of the Varangian guard would have been assigned to protect the general.. . Just because 😁😉
All fantastic, I think the painting is getting better? If that was possible. Really liked the monk and warriors base.... perhaps a command for a peasant unit....
Really appreciate that cheers, i find I'm spending more time selecting which paints actually work together 👍
Fireforge should be paying you for painted pics of their new models, their site still doesn't have their own XD
(Would love to see you do their other new Berber Infantry kit, I'd been curious how the Black Guard looked but I straight up couldn't find any painted pics elsewhere)
Haha that would be nice 😅
I'm tempted to do the other kit now as well to be honest, glad this video helped
Brother Cadfael... in the stories iirc he was a crusader who became a monk
This is a great shout 👍
I like your black guard. Gripping beast do some great metal black guard. I put a unit of them in my saga mutawiiha army as an elite unit of warriors. I think they are from the moorish faction but they are very cool looking troops.
Cheers mate, i love theblool and the cohesive colour of the unit will hopefully make them stand out on the battlefield 👍
How about a Franciscan friar called William of Baskerville ?
👍
Great looking miniatures, where did you get the flower and plant tufts from?
All my Tufts are from Tajima 1 , thanks for watching 😁👍
@@7thson726 actually I think I’ve asked this before, thanks again
@@chriswilson4280 haha no problem
Martin how did you paint your black guard
Hello mate, soni prime them black then Dona medium dry brush all over with a dark grey. I then pick out the details before adding strong tone wash. once dry I highlight any details as needed then do an all over dry brush with Deck Tan and that's about it 👍
Great project and nice minis that are very effectively painted and based. But in terms of history you are kind of making it up, aren't you, using figures whose armour costume and shield types are not right for the period, just chucking in any model you like the look of. Your final command base here has a guy in a surcoat. Would you field a WWII German infantry unit wearing Pickelhauben? Not a crime of course, but why not do a 2nd /3rd Crusade army at the same time? You could mix and match some of the units.
I've taken a little time to think how to reply to this. First, thanks for taking the time to watch the video and comment, I’m glad you like the paint jobs. With regards to your comment that I’m just making it up as I’m going along I take a bit of an issue with that, so I’m always happy to discuss what I’m doing which i don't always go into in depth in my videos in the interest of not sending a viewer to sleep 😁. While I’ll always ultimately go with what i want because it’s my army and models, i do like to evidence the possibilities.
Alot of the models I’m using are representing armies from across Europe at that time (for the Crusaders) and the whole of what is considered the Saracens even though this is a net term taking in Turks, Kurds, Fatimid’s, Seljuks, Berbers and more. I like using the models from the Reconquista which was happening simultaneously the FC as (to me anyway) it would make sense for a lot of the kit to be similar due to the conditions faced by both forces. Certainly as the Crusade progressed the participants started adopting more of the practices of their Eastern counterparts that they found useful such as various coverings on helmets. With regards to the Saracen armies and my use of the Black Guard with the distinctive shields, Saracen leaders became increasingly depended upon mercenaries drawn from across the Muslim world (there is evidence for Berbers serving in Fatimid forces for example) adding to the overall diversity of the Saracen force which keeps things interesting for me as a wargamer and i would put forward, a reasonable assumption to make.
Finally, the surcoat - it’s generally accepted that these become more common around the middle of the 12th century so 50/60 years after what I’m depicting however in the interest of making the commander stand out I’m happy for the covering to be on there, it is also a nod to the painting of Robert Curthose by Jean-Joseph Dassy as well as the effigy on his tomb in Gloucester Cathedral where the figure has a red surcoat, clearly not original but a little bit of inspiration. Now that effigy is likely from the late 13th to mid-14th century but i think in the wider context of the project having the odd surcoat / cloth covering here and there isn't stretching the bounds of historical context too much (the Saracen armies would often have troops with cloth coverings over armour and this would be adopted by the crusader states so after 3 years of fighting in the Holy Land I’m sure the odd crusader may have done the same).
I always intended on doing the early crusader states with this force and eventually adding in bits for the later Crusades. I hope that sort of sets out my thought process behind this, and i would totally field a unit of German Infantry with Pickelhauben 😅 it might make me paint some. All the best, Martin
@@7thson726 Hi Martin, thanks for the considered and detailed reply and yes, you were right to take issue with was a rather snarky comment of mine! Of course, we can do just what we please - it's a hobby which is meant to be fun. You are clearly very well-informed about this period, which is admirable. I'm doing some small First Crusade armies at the moment so I'm currently in the same research ballpark. I think that research is an intrinsic part of historical wargaming (but not to the level of button counting!) and not everyone who posts on TH-cam seems to engage with this idea. Fine - if someone wants 'factions' then play fantasy games. Part of the fun of historical gaming (for me) is the 'time machine' factor. Can I make my game look historically real? Or can I recreate a historical battle? Or set up battles with historically appropriate adversaries? Or, using my imagination can I pretend I'm actually there commanding an army? Or any of these things individually or in combination. The look of the game isn't always intrinsic to this idea - board games might do it, or gloss-painted 1970s Minifig Normans all in the same pose and painted in the same colours! But I think that there is a point to my 'Pickelhauben' comment. Many historical gamers would think it weird to present a WWII unit in early WWI gear. That kind of discrepancy, of only 25 years, stands out clearly. We are talking about 50-year discrepancies such as surcoats, flattish-topped kite shields, round rather than conical helmets etc. The art of the period gives a pretty clear guide to these aspects. Are they less important because they are 1000 years old and we don't have photos or film?
Hi Martin,
check out you spam folder ;)
they are ready to go..
cheers
Again, sorry dude, I'll look now 👍
@@7thson726 No worries at all mate. They are finally on the way :)
@@warsteelminiatures awesome, can't wait 😁
You talking a lot about anglo-saxon crusader but most of the crusader were Norman, french or occitan. some theory even said that the crusade was designed for Raymond of St-Gilles, count of Toulouse because he said that he would participe to the crusade two days after the concile of Clermont (where he was not and he can't be informed from Clermont to Toulouse in two days plus the fact he know the pope very well and he is known as a wise and patient man and not deciding on a religious ilumination, so the pope should have telling him when he meet him on road to Clermont).
I'm not a frenchman just complaining about anglo saxon crusader but keep in mind that crusades and especially the first was mostly a french(and norman and occitan) thing.
To have a good idea of who participated the most look at the crusader chief.
I appreciate what your saying 👍 I'm well awarw that the Norman contingent in the 1st Crusade (including elements from Normandy, France, italy and Sicily) formed the majority of the endevour 🙂 I think i mentioned anglo saxons near the start and i was referencing those Saxons who had essentially taken up home in the Byzantine empire in exile and made a home there with the blessing of Alexios Komnenos. However, Its inconceivable to me that some of the participants wouldn't be Saxon given the size of the undertaking, we have records of those for example who followed Robert Curthose and a few are sons of Norman / Saxon Marriages and a couple of saxon names / estates that had sided / capitulated with the Normans at an early date. It's all a bit of fun and juat allows a wider choice. In the case of my little narrative base with Aldred and Gilbert, i think we'll see where the crusade takes them 😁