This Broken PC was Such a PAIN to Fix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 that's the intro
0:25 Aura (Sponsor)
1:33 First look
2:52 First POST attempt
3:16 Testing RAM
4:12 CMOS & Battery
6:07 Adding RAM Back In
8:20 Trying to find the issue
9:14 The solution
13:04 Cleanup and Specs
14:27 Testing out PCIe and Thunderbolt
16:30 DaVinci Resolve
18:15 Home Server (Proxmox)
19:10 Most Useless NAS Ever
20:28 Cinebench and Power Draw
22:24 Thought on the Lenovo P330 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
guys be careful with weird placed HDMI ports! sometimes they are used for a completly different purpose and even may carry some voltage which would destroy the monitor!
Or PCIE slots in servers which require a specific riser card, craft computing had destroyed a HP server mobo 1-3 years ago
Indeed. The best bet would be trying to pull some info about the motherboard to check the purpose of the port before connecting anything.
I feel like I u found that out the hard way
Good to know.
What are they for then?
Hardware Haven fixes my servers through his videos
Hey don't put yourself down. Most competent people learn just through mucking about with hardware. I've been doing it since the late 90s.
I started my homelab with a 4th gen version of this computer that I picked up for $75, ready to plug in. A simple Debian system running Plex, with a bunch of external USB hard drives attached. That sparked multiple rounds of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)...
The i7-8700 is still such a solid chip. I have one running a ZFS array and a ton of docker containers without breaking a sweat.
Unfortunately, this particular pizza oven of a case can't adequately deal with an i5-8500 (75W TDP, and what I have) without hacking in more cooling, so I shudder a bit to think how often it throttles and spools up the jet engine with anything faster.
That internal HDMI might be a neat use for a PiKVM or similar device
That far right ram stick was slightly open at the top
Noticed it immediately.
For a moment I thought you were suggesting the RAM stick had a questionable political ideology!
@@jonjohnson2844 He didn't say left..
@@MexxiUK I used to be a computer repair guy in my early working life and stuff like that always sticks out to you. Same with if something weird is going on with the wiring, cpu clamps etc. That being said I still have my original pc from one of my old jobs with a i7 2600 in it and it requires me to pull out the mobo power cable to just boot it. Feels like I’m jumpstarting a car or something
@@christopherwood12 awesome 😎👍🏼
Bro started Easter egging 3d printed stuff
That kill a watt stand was cool
This can be a series where computer systems visit hardware haven.
I noticed it too. Wanted to print one for myself, now.
It's funny how many problems get solved by time and perseverance. Great job!
Great video looking at your process troubleshooting. Feel like I've had many similar mysteries cobbling together spare parts
I recently discovered through the M75q gen 2, another Lenovo SFF, that these motherboards are actually mATX and can be made to work with standard ATX power supplies through the use of a 24 pin to Lenovo adapter. The only thing different from mATX is the front I/O portion (USB ports, power switch), which sticks out a little outside of the mATX 244 x 244 mm standard. The mounting holes are in the same spot as standard mATX. You can observe this at 23:45 As the M75q gen 2 supports ECC memory after a BIOS update (when paired with a Ryzen CPU or Ryzen Pro APU, which these often come with), I think it could be a very interesting option as a homeserver when bought used.
As far as I know they're the same motherboards used in the full tower "T" series cases.
Also the power button is right next to those ports but it is NOT attached to the motherboard but instead is mounted to the case -- so it's easily replaceable when you do a transplant.
Excellent! Thank you for the video!!
i enjoyed this. nice work
Good stuff as always, Colten. Might try to touch base for next week if that works!
Great overview of this machine.
I have a couple of the i5 versions of these systems that were saved from going to recycling.
I still have to test the systems myself and see what I can do with them.
I do like the systems I have also have the RS-232 DE-9 connector on them. Makes for using on older systems or terminal based projects.
You did great. I’ve been working on computers since the mid 90 (yes, I’m old)
I love seeing computers repurposed and saved (in this case by a weird repair) from the trash. That case probably has lots of like left in it!
As for proprietary things in a small form factor like that the worst by far imo is the power supply. I can live with other bits but the power supply has to be replaced with one exactly like it which really stinks.
well yeah its a i7 8700 i still run a e5 2407 a 4 core 4 thread xeon from 2014 in my server lol
The mobos tend to be proprietary form factor in stuff like this and doesn't abide by ATX standards due to the mounting and power supply connections...
It's a normal ATX12V power supply. You may have a hard time finding one that fits nicely (might be easiest to go even smaller), but finding one that _works_ is not a problem at all. In this case they went with an off-the-shelf standard, just one that still hasn't caught on in general. The connector might be non-standard, but that's not a huge issue if you can cannibalize the connector from the dead PS (or from a 24-to-10 pin adapter).
Thanks for appreciating the power draw figures; electrons aren't as expensive as they were in Europe a few years ago but still maybe double what we're used to...I've seen Americans be proud of "low power" systems that draw almost 200 watts...that's about £60/$70 a month, too much for a tinkerbox that you have to leave on all the time because you gave a few friends Plex access years ago. Thankfully my system draws about 25w at idle running a 4th gen i5...I want to upgrade it but, honestly, it does everything it needs to absolutely fine.
I had this exact issue and all I had to do was swap the bottom ram to the top ram and it worked lol
If I had to guess what that onboard HDMI port is for, I'd wager it's probably for an FRU from Lenovo consisting of a GPU with no external outputs which plugs into the internal port and reroutes it to the motherboards port instead. A very convoluted solution to prevent end users connecting their display to the iGPU instead of the dedicated one.
end user: "why is the hdmi port covered?"
Great video. Small form factor, 2nd hand, low power consumption PCs are always a win win for a use case.
Nice to see an i7 8700 on the channel! My homelab is based on a Dell optiplex with an i7 8700, 32gb ram. Runs a bunch of LXC containers and VMs and only draws around 20w.
I just bought the i5-8500 version for $120, with 16 GB of DDR4 and a 250 GB SSD. Not a bad starter kit, if you can get around the horrible thermals of the case. All I really had to do was pop in an NVMe drive and clone the OS over to it -- aside from the necessary cooling hacks to keep the CPU fan from ever coming on because it is so incredibly loud.
Got a similar one: Lenovo ThinkCentre 720s SFF ~ i5 9400 for around $100 (UK). Added in 3 4TB SSDs and a 12TB HDD. Amazing server - I currently have a bunch of services + NAS running on it. Great video. PS: yes, the m.2 plastic contraption + power cables were a pain, but all worth it in the end.
The internal HDMI is for the second or third monitor output from the IGD.
I have an older m92 with an internal Display Port for the third monitor, along with a Display Port and VGA on the IO panel on the rear
You are correct with the ram placement channels can have individual settings however if an oem board supports that in training i don't know tbh.
idk which one of you sent this but you have a good machine there thanks for sharing with us.
I was wondering why my server was taking longer to boot...then realize the MCOS battery was sitting on my desk next to it. I installed a GPU and forgot to put the battery back in. 😂
another good thorough one - think about getting sata splitters, good notes on proprietary nature, i have found these lenovos are quite a bit more pricey than older hp gear - hp still has some proprietary issues itself but generally not terrible - these 6/7/8th gen boxes are basically refurb sweetspot right now in my view - after these people probably just want to jump to am4
The 8th gen box is also a cheap way to meet the minimum spec for Windows 11. That's why I bought one. As a side benefit, the 8th gen runs a little bit less toasty than the 7th gen, but I still had to hack an intake fan onto the side to keep the CPU cooler from spooling up. The Lenovo BIOS fan curves have zero chill, they're full 747-taking-off or nothing.
Lenovos i have worked with always seem to take forever to retrain after a CMOS clear. It probably their proprietary Bios verifying parts correctly.
Let's see another beautiful video
Great Video ❤
Where is the Crafty Computing install script? Or is it a VM?
New Hardware Haven video 😎
That's very odd. I use a P620 in my Jellyfin server and it's a champ at NVENC.
I use the full-size version for my proxmox server. I use another personally built 2nd gen i5 server for storage.
The labeling is clear there!
CLR_CMOS is the left one, then the chip between the pin headers is U90 and the right header is ME_DIS which is the Management Engine Disable!
The HDMI port is probably for ThunderBolt video injection?
what chair do you have and is it comfortable?
was that a open case switch at the top? like for boot security
I just bought (and am currently using) an 8th gen version of this with 16 GB of RAM for $120! I should have known it was too good to be true, and that there's a reason these are being pulled after just five years of corporate service: their propensity to spool up like a jet engine when they get too hot -- and there's no proper fix for it. The case is very clever and actually a pleasure to work on, but the thermals are the worst I've ever seen. I cut a hole in the side to accommodate a 120 mm fan and tapped into the +5V line for the DVD burner to power it. (I originally used an internal USB header, but those keep delivering standby power and I wanted the fan to turn off when I put the PC to sleep.) The tach line is going to fan header AUX2 so it can be monitored. It's ugly, but it works without adding a whole lot of noise, and it should even be good enough for a video card to be added although I'll probably have to run the 120 mm fan a bit faster at that time.
Lenovo really needs to redesign their pizza oven. Do we really need an optical drive anymore? Do we really need space for a 3.5" hard drive? Omit those and it should be possible to get some fans in there.
hp and dell also has been spotted using those connectors as well though
Have one those as work pc at my job...they work pretty good...cudos....
being an old goober my sure fire way to clear CMOS is remove CMOS battery..... also for used systems I aquire CMOS battery is a ALWAYS replace part.
In this case, it's really easy to get to the coin cell. Unless you intend to mount the PC in a place you don't want to move it ever again, it's a couple minute fix when it dies, so I just let it be. The ones in my drawer can drain on their own for a couple years and be in slightly better shape when they are needed.
@@mal2ksc no argument. I just prefer replacing the battery up front
Nice video Thanks for sharing it with us!💖👍😎JP
Another option you can try when the PC doesn't turn on is discharging the capacitors. Without the PC being plugged into the wall, press and hold the power button for 20-40 seconds. This can also be performed on laptops.
8:55 not enough thermal compound. People have tested this and found the best application is either a 5-point application, an X, or spreading it evenly. But that little bit you put isn't quite enough for optimal heat transfer. That being said, it'll probably only make about a 2 degree C difference.
I have a couple of these that fell off the back of a truck leaving a business in my town. I’m working on turning them into NAS’s for some friends and my biggest complaint is that they don’t have 2 3.5” drive bays so can’t mirror storage drives :/ so now I’m trying to re-house these MB into standard ATX cases with ATX PSU’s, so now I’m trying to find working 24pin adapters lol 😂 a real love-hate relationship with these Lenovo desktops for sure!
Suggestion: 3D print a new "bubble" lid that would allow you to cram in more 3.5" HDDs and some fans at the same time. Use that to replace the top cover.
6:56 he said he replaced the SSD and the PC stopped working so there's likely nothing on that m.2 SSD.
My first thought was to start RAM install starting with first slide, closest to the CPU, populate frame there, on most boards anyway.
I have an 8700 system that was at one point running 3 Minecraft servers concurrently with two of them modded along with a whole servarr stack. It's a very capable CPU
If you take a flat head screw driver and touch the two CMOS battery connectors together will reset like the jumpers.
i seen right at the beginning the far right memory stick wasn't fully seated.
I'm shocked that a PC that new has jumpers that can keep it from booting. I'm old... and I can remember dealing with Motherboard jumpers in the 486 era. OMG I hated it. Bad vision plus huge hands = jumper hell. I really wish the industry would come up with some SFF and USFF case and part standards.
I've lived through jumper hell too, jumpers for clock speed, multiplier, voltage, com port parameters, you name it, literal seas of jumpers on some things, no auto detect on hard drives either!! Keeping the manual safe and every brain cell possible fully engaged was very important. It's almost too easy now.
@@Tekwyzard I replaced the Cyrix CPU with a used Pentium on a pre-built ABS Systems computer (they still around now selling Newegg prebuilds) in the late 90s that was a great deal other than that Cyrix CPU (and with the Cyrix CPU I could not install a GPU because "cpu not recognized" by driver install program!!! omg that era sucked!!!)... but then the mobo manual did not have a jumper setting for that exact CPU.. probably because the Pentium CPU I got came out /after/ the motherboard was released. I guessed and it worked. Lol.
Considering Lenovo has been using these cases with only slight modifications for over a decade now, they kind of _are_ a standard.
Best way to clear cmos, take battery out for two mins. Then re insert.
That capacitor by the red jumper looks swollen to me.
Did you update the BIOS?
Hey @hardwarehaven what is a decently cheap prebuilt/old workstation that can be used as a decent minecraft server using crafty that can handle a couple mods? The reason I’m asking is because I’m a 13 year old with not much money
doesnt the system have a header for a small pc beeper? as then it can tell you what the problem is via the beep codes
RTFM, which is avaialble online. Think how much time you would have saved.
Cut a hole and mount a small HDMI screen to the case cover and connect to internal HDMI. :)
That 2-pin header; could the label ME_DIS mean "disable" the (infamous) Intel "Management Engine"?
Yes. ME BIOS seems to be corrupt.
What's that red thing on your keyboard?
How did this guy get so lucky and not destroy the entire PC? Plugging things in and has no idea what the port does. The HDMI port on the Motherboard killed me when he said "I have no idea what it does but I will look it up after I see if it works"
that's cool
Eyes before fingers. Always!
You should take a look at Greg Salazar's Fix or Flop series if you do one of these videos again. He's the king of this type of thing. He takes a much more careful and scientific approach.
No beep codes?
Lenovo usually locks devices down to just their proprietary components, I remember trying to add a wifi/BT mini-PCIe card to my Lenovo m73p being quite a chore in finding a compatible adapter that lenovo actually supported on the very restrictive hardware list :\
That might be true of the WiFi slot, but the NVMe m.2 slot next to it has no real restrictions, so it may be more down to not bothering than actually trying to lock you out.
the i9-9900 version is about 500 bucks on ebay, this one is around 250
These lenovos are solid
can you try p106-100 for home server?
You can unplug power and press power button for 30 seconds that will reset system without removing the battery
Take all the ram out for post beep
What kind of decaf coffee you drink?
Which Vacuum cleaner/duster is he using?
Same I wanna know I need one of this
For gpu try Nvidia RTX A2000 12Gb, are good for gaming and work, if you can afford it.
Basically,i will buy 10 Dell Optiplex's SFF for only 25 EUR (on monday,17.06),so i will try to experiment with them
Clearly the HDMI port was Lenovo setting this system up to receive a snowblind mod without external cables looping back in.
I am NOT a fan of proprietary nonsense that OEMS like doing with their machines
Why didn't you add a T800 ?, if you remove it , it will be back .
"That seems to be the... Only Fan". 😆
u could drop a RTX A2000 inside or a gigabyte 4060, but that hting needs an 8pin
AMR, CNR, ACR strike again...
next video idea talk about how someone can make a remote gaming server with proxmox
10:09 it says the same in the manual and on the board, it's from left to right "clr_cmos header" , "ic named U90" and "me_dis header" .
It's done like that kinda often because of the space issue, HP even has this text part sometimes like 3-5cm from the components.
Half height GPUs you say? A310 and A380 come in half height.
You can get a 4060 RTX half height if you're willing to pony up for it. Also 3060, 3050, 2050, and 2060. Just expect to pay about a 30% premium because of rarity. At the moment a low profile 3060 is a bit over $200. I saw a low profile 760 going for $60 if you're really strapped, but a normal size 750Ti is like $25.
Unfortunately, the space in the case is about 5 mm too short! Adding a video card requires some degree of modification to either the case or the card. I just cut out some of the sheet metal to make the required space, and I can't install a 3.5" HDD because I cut away the bracket that's intended to hold it and it would be in the way of the GPU anyhow.
Lenovo IS Dell. It probably would have worked
Why do people always star at themselves in the phone/camera. LOOK AT THE LENS!
You've been clearing CMOS with the battery in this entire time?
The correct procedure for any mobo is to take the battery out. The purpose of the battery is to keep the CMOS memory energized...
The purpose of the jumper is to discharge that energy....
If you leave the battery in, you're just draining the CMOS battery when you attempt to clear the CMOS with the jumper.
Why are there so few comments on this video
Why don't you use ramdisk to make ultra-fast storage whilst checking the transfer speed of data transfer over network
Because no network can go as fast as RAM lol. No home network can even approach NVME SSD speeds. And the speed test is likely done in the RAM anyway without the OS having to be installed on the RAM.
Thanks for the belated "goober" disclaimer. I was honestly irritated by that point as to why you would make a video when you clearly didn't know what you were doing. I hope it worked out.
there is a half height rtx 4060 from gigabyte. if you really want to do video editing and such thats probably your best bet
There are also 2050, 2060, and 3060 half height cards still out there if he doesn't have the cash for a 4060. I'm looking toward the 3060 myself, the 4060 is just too much more money.
@@mal2ksc i can only find a 3050 LP and a 4060 LP in the RTX range, from where the 3050 LP doesnt require a supplemental 6 or 8 pin power connection and the 4060 requires one 8 pin. otherwise there is a GTX 1050TI LP or a GTX 1650 LP which funny enough both dont require a supplemental 6 or 8 pin power connection. those are the nvidia low profile options that are not the biggest crap the world has ever seen. we all know the 3050 is dog crap so probably for the biggest bang for the buck and external power free is the 1650 LP your best bet for something like this. for the best performance and power in editing and the newest edition nvenc support the 4060 is your best bet. the gtx 1050TI LP is for the budget people among us. its still a great GPU but for a low price. pair that with a 3rd gen i7 or 4th gen i5 and you got yourself a budget pc that is not gonna give up on you in about 2 weeks when trying a bit more than home assistant.
Your workloads are just quite excessive : ))
@HardwareHaven After bios reset, pc can make a few reboots beafore it posts... You have to kepp that in maind.
This is the type of content I prefer, I have shared opinions with other Discord server members and they all agree with me, Colton, your content fell off when all the USFF stuff started coming out. Adding onto this, I feel like you should post more Landfull to LAN Content, alot of people really liked that series!
No hard feelings intended, Thanks for the good content Colton
Seriously, who thinks: I can’t figure out my homelab I should send it to a TH-camr??
I'm early
i'm early
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Please put more thermal paste on, I k ow its probably fine but it triggers me ;(
Ugh.. Its always about the sponsor..... Click, turn off. Sorry.
google for the 6th word in your comment followed by the word block