This is the WEIRDEST PC I've ever seen.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 This is the weirdest PC I've ever seen
0:34 Sponsor - SNHU
1:46 Unboxing
3:50 First POST
4:41 What this thing IS
6:24 Teardown and cleanup
7:55 Trying to bring power draw down
8:51 Some benchmarks
10:10 Some gaming
11:56 Emulation (Dolphin and PCSX2)
12:43 Video editing/rendering
13:30 TrueNAS
15:23 This thing is just.... kinda bad. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I wonder how much of the problems are actually it's power supply?
I saw a lot of similar power draw numbers from other reviews, so I doubt much.
@@HardwareHaven I mean if they are all the same manufacturer, its likely all using the same crap PSU. It could be a low efficiency PSU that is lying about ratings.
@@Oyashiro_Chama 85 watts has to be going someplace. if it wasn't leaving the PSU i bet you could feel it in heat out the back.
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a lot for sure, that red switch on the back gives it away (It indicates the presence of a Passive PFC and not an active one) that means that the psu is absolute garbage
There is a trick to lower consumption that usually works.
On the power, processor options, lowering the maximum to 99%, that will prevent it from doing the Boost
I encountered a sandy bridge mobile i7 that has issues where it cycles from boost to throttle, setting to 99% disables boost but also improved performance by eliminating the throttling.
You may also be able to do a little reg hack to get the processor boost options to show in that same menu (disabled, aggressive, etc) if they aren't already there. I did that on my ryzen laptop before I discovered GHelper.
AFAIK this board is based on PS5 or XBOX devkit. They had processors without graphic, they have devkit board, so they made some money on that.
yep, its the xbox one x board. they had a lot of extras that did pass microsoft standards and made boards like this for emeded use cases.
@@DustySeven7It's not Xbox, but Sony. This also explains the frequency behaviour, because Sony is all about throughput and low latency.
@@DustySeven7 He (Hardware Haven) specifically mentioned that the motherboard uses recycled PS5 APUs so no, it's not an Xbox One X board. Yes, both uses AMD CPUs but why would Xbox uses recycled PS5 APUs?
@@steezykane4738 define "better parts", it's the same APU from AMD, but with more cache on it
@@steezykane4738 I'd say the reverse is obvious. Most games that on PS5 run at 120fps run at 60 or even 30 on xbox. Ray tracing in games that run fine on ps5 tank performance on xbox.
Same for display resolution, on xbox raising resolution to 1440p tanks performance, on ps5 it's not a big impact.
The edits about the PCIE lanes were seamless lol
four!
FOUR
My dad is FOURTY FOUR
This is basicallly worse than a POSITIVO COMPUTER LOLOLOLOL
@@gabrielv.4358 brasileiro momento?
Definitely WEIRD ... but also ... definitely interesting!
Which is my favorite, haha
HOW ARE U GUYS COMMENTING FOURS AGO WHEN IT CAME OUT 1 HOUR AGO
@Zentoro143 Members benefits when you support the channel by being a member.
When you become a member, you stay curious, and get access to a TARDIS @@Zentoro143
@@Zentoro143 he knows things we don't
Starting watching your videos a few years ago when you only had a couple thousand subscribers, amazing to see how far you've come
Thanks for supporting me and helping make it happen 😊
big fan of wacky abominations tbh.
Aren't we all?? (at least people that watch this channel, haha)
@@HardwareHaven and saving old parts from e-waste as well, making a plex server is really tempting
SOC would be the chip SBC would be the board in it's entirety
I would have liked to see some memory benchmarks. With GDDR6 it might have really fast memory IO making it a candidate for a standalone database server.
But probably not.
There is a reason why there exists DDR and GDDR - NEITHER is any good at the job of the other.
@@ABaumstumpfThis really isn't true. GDDR has no real drawbacks aside from power consumption for general purpose tasks. It's typically faster than DDR in every way. The reason it isn't common outside of embedded boards like this is expense and tighter signaling requirements making it not a good candidate for slotted memory sticks. Even if you look at the memory arrangement on the board it's a radius around the cpu to maintain the same trace length from all chips to the integrated memory controller.
It would have been interesting to see it's performance since this is not a configuration commonly available to consumers.
@@ReflexVE "GDDR has no real drawbacks aside from power consumption for general purpose tasks"
And latency, and complexity, and bus-width, and cost and..... so on.
@@ABaumstumpf You stated it was not good for the same tasks DDR is. In fact for any task you are running it is higher performing than regular DDR. 16GB of GDDR will always outperform 16GB of DDR regardless of task. The drawbacks in terms of system building are immaterial for a pre-built system without upgradeable memory like this.
@@ReflexVE GDDR's main drawback is latency, it's optimized for big transfers. This is not a huge impact for CPU computing but I've seen 20-30% figures cited. It's surely better to run a CPU on GDDR than a GPU on DDR, that much is beyond question.
FYI all ram needs the same trace length unless you are daisy chaining slots or chips on the same channel, which you usually don't want to do unless in high density or crappy embedded
Sneaky little "four"s at 11:19, 11:25 and 11:35
HOW ARE U COMMENTING FOURS AGO WHEN IT CAME OUT 1 HOUR AGO
@@Zentoro143they are prob a channel member last I heard they get the videos days in advance
It gave me a giggle and felt like he was doing a bit
couldnt be bothered to say four so many times.
It’s kinda bugging me, but the 11:25 timestamp is just a couple milliseconds off so I think that 11:24 would be a better timestamp to pick
If this system posts into TrueNAS without having a graphics adapter installed, the PCIe slot can be used with an HBA giving you 8 (or even more) SATA or SAS ports, up to 2 GB/s of total throughput from the PCIe 2.0 x4 (if there is not a bottleneck elsewhere and if I heard properly 😅)
Yup,and then drawing 100W continuously for 24/7 😆
@@winandd8649 2kWh Pb storage, 500W solar panel, you can run this in a tent. Why the fuss over 100W? My Pentium II's idled at ~260W, use it, shut down like turning off the light when you leave a room. Somebody who couldn't afford the latest 4090 and 64Gb and the latest Ryzen will find this cheap, and used, and then use it to make great original works, poking the likes of Starfield in the eye. Either that, or rags to riches is just a dream. Energy, that 100W, powers everything, and has, as you point out, a high idle draw, so just turn it off when it's finished rendering!
Btw, my primary machine is the 2016 Razer Blade Pro, with desktop 1080 GPU and a CPU that does CineBench faster than this rig, it's disappointing seeing £2500 Razer models which are barely an upgrade, still. It feels like we are standing still, and living in a rentier society want to sit on their butts and keep raking it in on small lazy advancements, rather than innovating and disrupting each other. I think they agreed to do this, in all industries, tacitly or formally, it even has a name, 'designed obsolescence'.
Perfectly fine if you live in a region where electricity is cheap, you live in a rented space where the landlord covers the electrical bill, the winters are cold, etc. 😉
This is basicallly worse than a POSITIVO COMPUTER LOLOLOLOL
The CPU probably doesn't need C states for a PlayStation, just down-clocking or hibernating / other power saving
This is my pc, I use this kit together with a RX 580 2048SP. It's one of the best value for money I've had here in Brazil. When I assembled it I paid less than R$1500.
Interesting, a shame it has so many limitations could have been a cool options.
For sure..
Option* my bad
Typical china bootleg...Software is bad as hell bios broken forever 😮
you can tweak the power state by setting the cpu min power usage in advanced power manager
not gonna lie, i kind of want one just as a collectors item. such a unique board that is probably going to poof from the internet sooner rather than later.
One of the biggest downsides of the low profile RX 550 cards is their cooling is designed to blow hot air inside the case instead of exhausting it at the back, which is the reason it uses a solid i/o plate instead of the standard vented one.
As an used of this board some time ago
If you really want to game on it, go with GTX 1080 or GTX 1080Ti, since even on PCIE 2.0 x4 (which this mobo sadly provides) loses only around 13% of performance while compared to x16.
Used it exactly on Linux and i can say it worked nice.
Also „cooling tip” since you cannot replace cooler - replace fan, exactly with the Ryzen „official” fan from their wraith cooler, fits perfect! I used the one with RGB ring :D
I do have a board like that; I have installed OSX, Linux, and Windows, and now it’s in my living room running SteamOS
Does it still hold a high idle power draw on linux?
@@SuperM00b it does, between 65 and 77 watts when watching TH-cam, Netflix, etc
from my perspective of using an m2 pro mac (idles 0.02-0.6W power draw, highest peak i think ive seen was 43W and that was momentary before dropping back to 12W) this is like looking at new york apartment prices
111W idle is insane
not even my old mac pro gaming pc conversion that now only exists for palworld and glaze hits that idle draw despite having 4 gpus and 2 cpus
broo 100 vids, u did it!
Woah yeah you're right! I hadn't even noticed haha
Thanks!
@@HardwareHaven you're welcome, also for the past I keet watching your vids, they're awesome, please do some more homelab related
Yay, new video! also, in 2:08 it shows your back/front yard, is it gonna leak your address in someway?
It's just the backyard, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal. Thanks for mentioning it though!
Good stuff as always, sir! Thanks.
There could have been some kind of use case for this board IF it would have had at least PCIe 3 I/O of some kind. The extreme lack of I/O beyond the CPU & RAM really kills it for me. PCIe 2.0 was ratified in January 2007 and became widely available later that year. For just about any board to be made in the late 2010s or in the 2020s to only have that be available is absurd!
I guess they put it in a relatively standard desktop case is to sell the idea of it being more powerful that it really is. It makes it feel big. Most people don't really know what's inside or what it's all supposed to mean. In a smaller HTPC case, at a cheap price, it wouldn't be so bad. The basically empty BIOS is a big turnoff though, since it just uses too much power for what it is.
congrats on 100 videos !!
🎉🎊🎈
Depending on price of course, I think it might be a great PC for music applications. It has fast CPU, and low latency audio tends to, at least historically, be a bit glitchy with CPU power state transitions. Conversely, audio applications have still not made a lot of use of GPU processing, so expansion in that direction would not make such a difference. Of course, you'd have to have good quiet cooling with it. Still, if it's very cheap for its performance, I think it might be a great system to use for that.
Only 4 PCIe lanes sounds like the kind of cost cutting thing to do for the APU on the PS5, since all it needs to do with PCIe is run the expansion SSD, graphics are built into it after all and the default storage is some complex built-in system. It's a shame this board doesn't include that super SSD hardware, but then again I bet the idea of this was to keep costs down.
Thank you for re-organizing these cables!
I wonder how this would perform for very specific memory-bandwidth constrained applications. The APU has enough shared memory bandwidth for both the CPU and GPU, so maybe the CPU could leverage more of that raw memory bandwidth? The PS5 has 448GB/s of raw GDDR6 bandwidth, which is equivalent to 10 channels of DDR5-5600 in raw bandwidth, but at a significant latency penalty.
Actually amd did something similar with Xbox One's APUs. They rebranded them as AMD A9-9820.
First: Congrats on 200k subs!
Second: Your personality n style of videos always makes me come back to your videos c:
You could attempt to change the CPU frequency manually under Linux. There are tools to set a different CPU frequency governor as well - basically changing the algorithm used to determine CPU frequency. I used to mess with these a while ago to improve laptop battery life.
The redubs at around 11:30 is great. Nice. I almost missed it.
I've had the maximum clocks bug on my ASUS boards. The BIOS is defaulting to a max of 4096 Amps/Watts. And windows never downclocks it. If you can set it to a more reasonable 200-500w it would start working properly. It might take a BIOS mod if the menu option is hidden.
Putting this in perspective, an H610 or B660 and a 12100F is 31% faster single core, which only winds up 21% behind on multi-threaded. So likely ahead in most real world situations. Especially if you consider the NVMe and x16 slots would be 4.0.
i agree with your conclusion. i have a 5600g based system with 32g ram, nvme and spinning storage and it pulls 40W idling as a file server. I think the faulty on-apu based gpu and gpu cores are not fully disabled, and that is the cause of both the high power draw at idle, and the crashing. The fact you were able to boot linux without the external graphics card seems to demonstrate that, and the crashing was probably caused by software accessing those "disabled" faulty cores, which are obviously not really properly disabled.
What's the memory bandwidth and latency on aida64? If it has a huge bandwidth it could be useful as an LLM server running on the CPU. The workload is memory bottlenecked always.
saw a lot of this 4700s combo for sale for about 100$ recently
Wonder if anyone out there might have done something as crazy as baked a custom BIOS for it that might allow for optimizing power consumption...
GOAT your videos are so entertaining so thanks for uploading lots🎉🎉
Wonder if someone managed to mod the bios lots of features seem missing. That could change this from junk to useful if the power management could be adjusted or even enable some if the features that is found on average pc's.
Interesting, Thank you!
Use it to run SETI@Home during winter, helps to add a bit of warmth to the home and you can devote all the computing resources to some cause.
Congrats on 200k🎉
Hi, nice video, i really like how you did the teardown and described most of the things of that PC. But one thing actually makes me curious. Does this motherboard support Legacy mode? I’m asking because i’ve the chance to buy it on a bargain but planning to use with older hardware and run Windows 7 on it. It is possible to install a Windows 7 on that? Greetings
So well said. I agree just 1 thing away from having a usable purpose and not just e-waste.
could have tried to replace PSU to reduce power draw.
Hi, since this is the PS5 apu, what about using a liquid metal with a proper cooling and a proper PSU to see how much of an efficiency gain can be had, and retest it?
I really like your presentation, i feel this apu deserve more love to understand more about it. And please dont forget to cool well the gddr6 memory also.
Bios has no option to disable the igpu? Any possibility that some.softwares missunderstood what gpu was the target?
Anyway, thank you!
Well, that's a super awesome piece of hw. I hope I could get my hands on it! Kudos
Even when the radiator is turned in the right direction, the fan is to loud. you won't find an stockradiator for this kit. a possible solution for this problem ist a 80/120-adapter to use a 120mm-fan. an other option ist to use the fan of Cooler Master i70.
If you can trust HWInfo and CPU-Z, the CPU can downclock. but the system still requires 100 watts.
Gotta dig the 90s style psu mount. lol. ftw, back then they thought about how electricity works and demanded the cpu be mounted as to be able to wave lengths its air into the psu so the voltage knob controller didnt doink out over itself. lol.
The edited FOUR just keeps jumping in my head and now I feel like someone might take it and make a sound effect out of it
PCIe slot is 4x because it was probably meant only for the NVMe drive on PS5
A really interesting little system for sure.
The PS5 has at least 4 lanes of PCIe Gen 4 as it sports NVMe Gen 4 capability, so i find it interesting that the slot on this board is limited to Gen 2 and/or that there is no NVMe option on the board.
It would be interesting to see if the GPU on one of these can possibly be coaxed back to life, i bet it would offer significantly higher performance than anything you can get through 4 lanes of gen2 PCIe, although getting drivers for it might be a show stopper. Also, it might just be... Missing some instruction set extensions. That might cause some of your performance oddness.
As far as power goes, the PS5 runs on Linux, probably with a lot of kernel customization. Maybe one day we'll see it in "regular" linux?
The 4700s CPU only has a 4 lanes PCIe gen 2. If you search for "amd 4700s 8 core" you will find that information in the amd web site. Beware that there is a more recent ryzen 7 also named 4700s but seems to have 96 core.
The PS5 runs a heavily customized version of FreeBSD I think, not Linux
All your content is gold. Even boring hardware becomes interesting. How do you do it?!
From the thumbnail i did notk now what to think. Thanks for revealing the secrets of this fine motherboard
its possible that the power supply could be drawing quite a bit of power, that is, if it isn't 80plus
nope it's the BIOS that does not configure CPU/GPU power states correctly. The CPU/GPU are always on at all cores, never idle/sleeping like modern PC/smartphones do. This is why old PC with pentium 4 were using 60w+ on idle, there was not idle/sleep modes for hardware
Video editing problems were the 4x Pcie gen2 lanes , the memory bandwidth was really crippled and the reason for the gpu memory errors. It had the memory but not the bandwidth to access all the memory fast enough causing the error flag and crash
bro ur channel is growing so fast. wish u best .
It's really strange that the PCIe slot is only gen 2. The PS5 requires a gen4 SSD so what was that interface used for on this board?
Keep in mind that PS5 used a proprietary solution for accessing memory made by Sony. I don't think this thing has it, or if it does, AMD probably isn't allowed to use it.
@@guiorgy I doubt that. You can stick any gen 4 SSD in a PS5 and it will work as long as the throughput is high enough.
that GDDR6 system RAM sure is interesting, I hoped to see some CrystalDiskMark benchmark of a RAM Drive, I also wonder if some of the weird quirks and crashes were maybe because of the GDDR6 RAM
Colten Never Dissapoints! My man finds things I have never seen before, cool stuff man!
on linux you could try to enable the AMD pstate driver as a grub boot option if your kernel is recent enough
I really like the idea of these boards. Hopefully we see some better-supported options in the future with either a more typical APU. Strix Halo might be an interesting thing to see on a future ITX/MATX motherboard like we've seen with the 7945HX and 13900HX.
in power options there maybe a way to force the cpu to a lower power percentage in advanced options and switch it ack when you need full power
All I can think of that it may be good at is a HTPC, because those you typically don't leave powered on for more than a couple of hours a day. It's also a small board with good CPU power, and many old emulators are still CPU-based.
Did I miss the feature set in the bios for ddr6 regen? Otherwise I don’t see any “advantages” here to the gddr6. The vram is what was causing the addressing issues, the video card was being instructed to do the work but it was probably trying to call to the faster ram on the mb and getting security kicked because it didn’t have any regen calls
It is possible that the apu, expecting to have onboard gpu capability, is attempting to run code ment to be handled by the gpu. If im right, this accounts for the random hiccups encountered by the system.
A little weird that the OC was blurred the second time you showed the inside, but not the first time.
what about the memory bandwith? have you tested the read and write speeds?
maybe if you found a scrapped case, put the board in and hey, it's great to repurpose the case! the case the board was in can be made for NAS centre as well as DVD host
The PC case looks upgradeable.
I wonder if it would be possible to upgrade the BIOS, maybe install Coreboot?
Of course because of how unique this board is it may not be possible but I wonder if that would fix the low power states and the software crashes. The CPU itself may need microcode updates as well.
Did you mention the clocks. It's not even on the official product page. Are you getting the full 1.6ghz
It would be very interesting if somebody were to write a driver that allows the system to route the on-board gddr6 memory as the dedicated gpu ram.
just looked one up on amazon UK... £685 for the same as you have there... Same case, RX550 etc. that's 685 POUNDS, GBP so probably close to USD$800. YOWZAAAA!!
Have two of these 4700S boards. The biggest problem with them imo is that AMD only went for a Gen 2 x4 PCIe slot and forwent NVMe support.
Wonder about swapping that APU with a 6nm one from a PS5 slim? The internal GPU still wouldn’t be an option (no drivers, UEFI support) and the BIOS would need to support a new CPU microcode.
It’s theoretically possible I suppose.
Linus did a video on this kit. It was a decent when you could get it. As far as i know these are defective igpu ps5 soc's which is cool
That's a crazy system. I could see some cool use case for this machine.
Crazy indeed!
@@HardwareHaven could be a cool machine for media playback. Or maybe running retro OS in virtual machines for shits and giggles. 👍
I wonder if maybe linux on recent kernel deals better with this cpu regarding powerstates?
Considering it was made in 2021, I doubt anything newer than the 6.1 kernel I was running would help. Who knows though!
Gold fry looks like he got into a fight recently.
just realized. the high power draw might be due to the bad/cheap PSU. test with a top quality if power draw improves.
This is actually amazing
This is not that unusual, I used to work with marquee signs and most of them ran on these weird SBC's that look very similar. They usually had some beefy fans thought to keep everything cool. Some of them can actually be upgraded depending on the board and bios version. OFC you need some decent soldering skills to do it but my brother and I got one up to 16GB a few years back and it wasn't even a board that was listed as "upgradable". There is a specific one that I want that has a embedded GTX 1050 ti with the ram and cpu soldered on to it. Thing would make one badass emulation / mame machine that would fit in a stripped out console case.
I wonder how well this system would run a local LLM using something like LMStudio or Ollama. Since these are CPU bound on no-GPU systems anyway, it might be one use case especially with the very fast RAM.
I didn't find out until after editing that, while GDDR6 has good bandwidth, the latency is terrible. So no idea how useful that would be lol
@@HardwareHaven I immediately thought of the bandwidth of GDDR6, and a quick Google search suggests that it might be close to 100GB/s on this board. AFAIK, latency is not really an issue in running LLMs, so this might be a killer low-cost platform for that.
I wonder if these are like some other "PS5" stuff we've seen recently, where they were made for mining. That would explain the power draw because they're set to run at 100%. I'm guessing a custom BIOS could solve the power issues. Good luck finding it though.
85 watt on idle that is a lot , my ryzen 3950x on my x570 motherboard with a RTX 2070 super WAS the same on idle , Now I fitted a b550 motherboard 64gb ram ,ryzan 5700g , 4 * sata drives and 2 * nvme drives , my RTX 2070 , Proxmox , frigate with 6 cameras , 3 being x265 cameras , torrent , jellyfin , home-assistant , samba , windows 10 with the GPU , docker etc , water cooled , all on a idle at 55 watts , 8% cpu.
If it uses GDD^ Memory from the board I wonder how these would do in the Local Language Model space, I just built my first LLM host and am already looking to make another.
For the CPU issue of power and not sleeping cores I found the Program called Quick CPU which really helped my machine idle down very nicely with an AMD CPU.
For me such a board would be a big upgrade compared to my old pc :)
8:40 you could use throttlestop to clock down the cpu
my old pc used more watts than my refrigerator
It would be cool that you put the link of the pc for like other people to buy it because it got me interested
Factorio might be a decent test for that onboard Gddr
i am curious about the GDDR6. brings this any benefits or is this related to the being a console thats needs to be doing some heavy GPU stuff. i think having such fast memory brings some benefits. i mean i do analytic stuff and normal ddr4 dual channel is way to slow so i bought a dell r630 for this type of workload. cpu power is for the most part with normal desktop cpus no problem, i mean 8 to 16 cores are plenty but limited to dual channel ram and only 8 ranks at best
GDDR for CPU is usually worse because of higher latency, I've seen 20-30% performance figures quoted for that.
For a console they accept the tradeoff to use GDDR for CPU because the GPU needs GDDR to run at best performance, and GPU is what matters most
This is quite cool, I guess this opens the door to soldering a full PS5 chip with graphics onto this motherboard and flashing PS5 firmware and basically having a PS5 in a standard PC case for whatever reason you’d do that for. Maybe being able to dual boot
Also better cooling
it doesn't, the xbox one/ps4 equivalent boards have been a thing for a long time too
I remember these coming from b stock XBOX / Playstation SoCs. Some chinese board vendor spun them into these embedded solutions. Very interesting
It's a neat idea for a system. It really is unfortunate that it's not more useful for... anything
Did you check that GDDR6 bandwidth and latency? I'm curious
My N5105 homelab draws half of that power with 5 HDDs (when spun up) and 5 SSD attached to it. 😂