Bruh, I remember being told that Plato was an atheist growing up. I also remember atheistic friends telling me that Plato was an atheist when I first started college. Kids these days.
Yes, because atheists typically lie about some things like this for whatever reason. If you are interested in truth and learning more, I'm actually a Platonist: Plato generated a teleologically theistic cosmology in the Timaeus. It is because of the nature of forms, always being completed in themselves, perfection, that all things as information have a function and can be applied to any state of affairs. Because they are the building blocks of all things ordered. And anything that is ordered to be so could not be made, without itself an absurdity, without necessity, Ananke. Plato called the highest aspect of God, Τὸ Ἕν, 'is one' or 'the one,' the Monad or source, and the Neoplatonic tradition aimed at union with this One, called this theurgy or henosis. The metaphysical principles that govern things ends in theology because faith begins where reason ends, and reason extends to all things forever, therefore reason can only end in God. All things that are in flux have a source. And also why Aristotle argued that the Unmoved Mover could only be one and associated God with the final cause. www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/Paideia%20College%202004/Demiurge_God_Platos_Timaeus.pdf www.jstor.org/stable/3748039?seq=1
Yep they wouldn’t let us learn the occult science and the laws of nature at school all the knowledge we needed but it’s not hard to wonder why. Church government practices are the dark side of it. And all it is is knowledge of progressive values and science All scientific research. That’s the true education of man. And we are told it’s evil so we couldn’t have free will. Free will is to know all and make a choice.
Plato called the supreme creator the Demiurge in the Timaeus. This Demiurge put order to prexisting chaos and said that the creation was ultimately good, but he set aside the physical world he created to the lesser entities which would be the Greek Pantheon of gods.. These gods ruled over humans not by force but by persuasion and said that the Demiurge intended that they be the teachers of mankind. While he did talk about the abstract concept of the form of the good, Plato also described the creator as having an intelligence and personality and even provided a name. Paul talked about how the world is persuaded by the elemental spirits in Colossians, which would correlate to the pagan pantheon of gods, ruling by persuasion, or deceit from a Christian perspective.
@@eugene3484 The Timaeus is in the public domain and can easily be found for free online with a simple search. Why watch morons talk about it on TH-cam when you could read and think for yourself. "Woe to you to be content with only the truth you have been fitted to receive..." -- Albert Pike
Timaeus, who is explaining this myth, in the dialogue Timaeus which is written by Plato, talks about other Eternal Gods that are co-existent (meaning they exist alongside) the Demiurge. The Demiurge is also Identified with Zeus, according to Proclus. This actually makes sense and is widely believed by many Pagan Platonists such as myself. Also, The Demiurge we see in Timaeus reflects the demiurge from that of Orphism (Orphismos) where Zeus asks Night (Goddess Nyx) on how to recreate the universe as one, yet each thing distinct. Nyx states to Zeus that he should swallow everything, including phanes & nyx, so that he can recreate the world in the Aether. Once he does so, he becomes King of the Gods forever and ever. Platonism utilizes Orphic ideas to the point where you see just how much similarities there are.
This is very much like the core belief in most of Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) - God is the non-personified transcendent Brahman, he can manifest as a personified almighty god called Ishvara. And all the other deities are manifestations of him with various attributes and functions in the universe. The Egyptians had a similar concept - all the gods as infinite manifestations of the ultimate Divine (Ptah, Atum-Re or Amon depending on the city) throughout Eternity. There was no distinction between polytheism and monotheism.
Thanks for the upload. At the risk of sounding like I am giving heresy a pass, it seems like a clean split between Polytheism and Monotheism is not really there. Ultimately the conclusion there is one unmoved mover and the conclusion there is a pantheon of beings that are stronger than human beings but are independent of each other and don’t ultimately contradict.
This is true insofar as it goes, but keep in mind that as Christians we also believe in a group of similar beings, namely demons and angels, the difference being that we don't think they should be worshipped. That's the key point.
The unmoved mover is Aristotle & later Aquinas. Mixing Hebrew & Greek, wasn't easy. The Trinity is just one rationalization of this problem. But it's the Greeks, philosophy, literature, tragic passion plays, mythology, that we should definitely return. Definitely. But the best description of knowledge & platonic thought I've ever heard is here! th-cam.com/video/d5UBBCyi-VM/w-d-xo.html You'll eventually see the problem...
The unmoved mover is Aristotle & later Aquinas. Mixing Hebrew & Greek, wasn't easy. The Trinity is just one rationalization of this problem. But it's the Greeks, philosophy, literature, tragic passion plays, mythology, that we should definitely return. Definitely. So much of Christianity is Greek, Dionysian, resurrection, etc. after all, the NT was written entirely in Greek... But the best description of knowledge & platonic thought I've ever heard is here! th-cam.com/video/d5UBBCyi-VM/w-d-xo.html You'll eventually see the problem... Philosophically. Regarding Greek polytheism, you'd have to agree there are powers & fields, like gravity, electro-magnetism, lust etc would you not.? Or is that polytheistic as well, lol.
I don't think you've got the depths of Plato cf Christian thought. Plato's 'god' and 'good' are fundamentally impersonal and impassive. Yahweh is not this God, nor is the creation as Plato abstracts it. The Christian conception is that God is the ground of all reality and the author of everything not himself. There are no 'forms' there is no 'good' independent of the God who lives, relates and speaks from who they all derive as consistent with who God is: love. Reality is substantial in and grounded by the personhood ('personality') of God. By contrast Plato's god and the epistemology that evolves out of that conceptualisation are on training wheels compared to Creator who lives.
From what I'm hearing here I would say Plato has a world view that is very compatible with the Biblical Judeo-Christian view. Polytheism in the sense of intermediaries where there is one transcendent Good (GOD) overseeing everything is in effect what the Bible describes. Plato merely arrived at this logically and perceived this as truth. Makes one wonder what Jesus meant when he stated "I am good".
Platonism speaks of many Gods with the Demiurge, since the Gods are eternal, they coexist in harmony in the Nous, and are participable, while The One, aka The Good is not
I have a question here. Plato’s thoughts are mingled with Gods and mythology, although we define philosophy as thoughts based on rational reasoning. How is that possible to call these thoughts philosophy? Thanks
Plato was a polytheist, zeus is the most high or the most good, the alpha and omega, the other gods are extensions of zeus, he knew how to differentiate the myths from divinity, the gods are all just immortal and eternal, the myths are for man to learn and gain wisdom and knowledge. Hellenic polytheism is still practiced today with most applying the platonic view on the gods
@@TheKnightOfZ0 No, he viewed them as legit beings that are worthy of worship. who worships archetypes? In the Timaeus, There is mention of Eternal/Everlasting Gods that are aside the Demiurge. Plus, The Demiurge creates the universe as a SHRINE to the GODS. I'm using Zeyl's translation on this, which can be found in Hackett's, edited by John M. Cooper "Plato, Complete Works". Page 1227 is where it starts. Also, read Proclus, Elements of Theology Proposition 113 - 120. Also, Socrates in Phaedo or Phaedrus (idk which of these, probably the latter) speaks of Zeus being at the center of the universe, while in the Cratylus, he speaks of Zeus as "through whom all life comes through".
Platos religion was to be good and virtuous, by having courage, prudence and justice. And most important of all, dialectic. A philosopher is only one suitable to live next to gods.
the problem with your study here is Plato was born in 428/427 or 424/423 - 348/347 BC). Christianity would not really get started until 300-400 years later in 30 C.E. God's people at the time were the Israelites or the Jews. Plato's Philosophy is based on his Rome heritage and his worship of False God's.
I’m really learning a lot throughout this series, please more episodes 🙏🏼🙏🏼 blessings pastor
very well explained, just started reading Victor Brochard's study on Socrates and Plato
Bruh, I remember being told that Plato was an atheist growing up. I also remember atheistic friends telling me that Plato was an atheist when I first started college. Kids these days.
rewrite history
Yes, because atheists typically lie about some things like this for whatever reason. If you are interested in truth and learning more, I'm actually a Platonist:
Plato generated a teleologically theistic cosmology in the Timaeus. It is because of the nature of forms, always being completed in themselves, perfection, that all things as information have a function and can be applied to any state of affairs. Because they are the building blocks of all things ordered. And anything that is ordered to be so could not be made, without itself an absurdity, without necessity, Ananke.
Plato called the highest aspect of God, Τὸ Ἕν, 'is one' or 'the one,' the Monad or source, and the Neoplatonic tradition aimed at union with this One, called this theurgy or henosis. The metaphysical principles that govern things ends in theology because faith begins where reason ends, and reason extends to all things forever, therefore reason can only end in God. All things that are in flux have a source. And also why Aristotle argued that the Unmoved Mover could only be one and associated God with the final cause.
www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/Paideia%20College%202004/Demiurge_God_Platos_Timaeus.pdf
www.jstor.org/stable/3748039?seq=1
Plato was a polytheist
Those people were very ignorant.
Yep they wouldn’t let us learn the occult science and the laws of nature at school all the knowledge we needed but it’s not hard to wonder why.
Church government practices are the dark side of it.
And all it is is knowledge of progressive values and science
All scientific research.
That’s the true education of man.
And we are told it’s evil so we couldn’t have free will.
Free will is to know all and make a choice.
great stuff as always
Just found your channel today. Great stuff, keep up the good work! I will be patiently waiting for the continuation of this series.
Plato called the supreme creator the Demiurge in the Timaeus. This Demiurge put order to prexisting chaos and said that the creation was ultimately good, but he set aside the physical world he created to the lesser entities which would be the Greek Pantheon of gods.. These gods ruled over humans not by force but by persuasion and said that the Demiurge intended that they be the teachers of mankind.
While he did talk about the abstract concept of the form of the good, Plato also described the creator as having an intelligence and personality and even provided a name.
Paul talked about how the world is persuaded by the elemental spirits in Colossians, which would correlate to the pagan pantheon of gods, ruling by persuasion, or deceit from a Christian perspective.
Interesting. I would like to watch more videos about learning if there’s some truth to that. If you know any
@@eugene3484 The Timaeus is in the public domain and can easily be found for free online with a simple search. Why watch morons talk about it on TH-cam when you could read and think for yourself.
"Woe to you to be content with only the truth you have been fitted to receive..."
-- Albert Pike
@@TT-kx9lg thanks I was just asking for a source.
Timaeus, who is explaining this myth, in the dialogue Timaeus which is written by Plato, talks about other Eternal Gods that are co-existent (meaning they exist alongside) the Demiurge. The Demiurge is also Identified with Zeus, according to Proclus. This actually makes sense and is widely believed by many Pagan Platonists such as myself.
Also, The Demiurge we see in Timaeus reflects the demiurge from that of Orphism (Orphismos) where Zeus asks Night (Goddess Nyx) on how to recreate the universe as one, yet each thing distinct.
Nyx states to Zeus that he should swallow everything, including phanes & nyx, so that he can recreate the world in the Aether. Once he does so, he becomes King of the Gods forever and ever. Platonism utilizes Orphic ideas to the point where you see just how much similarities there are.
@@sterrnerdeem4979bull the timeus discusses a single abstract god.
I’m not sure what the opinion of a materialist atheist is worth but I think Plato had one of the best theologies I’ve heard of.
This is very much like the core belief in most of Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) - God is the non-personified transcendent Brahman, he can manifest as a personified almighty god called Ishvara. And all the other deities are manifestations of him with various attributes and functions in the universe. The Egyptians had a similar concept - all the gods as infinite manifestations of the ultimate Divine (Ptah, Atum-Re or Amon depending on the city) throughout Eternity. There was no distinction between polytheism and monotheism.
Thanks!
Very clear, thank you.
Thanks for the upload. At the risk of sounding like I am giving heresy a pass, it seems like a clean split between Polytheism and Monotheism is not really there. Ultimately the conclusion there is one unmoved mover and the conclusion there is a pantheon of beings that are stronger than human beings but are independent of each other and don’t ultimately contradict.
This is true insofar as it goes, but keep in mind that as Christians we also believe in a group of similar beings, namely demons and angels, the difference being that we don't think they should be worshipped. That's the key point.
@@ninjacell2999
exactly
The unmoved mover is Aristotle & later Aquinas. Mixing Hebrew & Greek, wasn't easy. The Trinity is just one rationalization of this problem. But it's the Greeks, philosophy, literature, tragic passion plays, mythology, that we should definitely return. Definitely.
But the best description of knowledge & platonic thought I've ever heard is here!
th-cam.com/video/d5UBBCyi-VM/w-d-xo.html
You'll eventually see the problem...
The unmoved mover is Aristotle & later Aquinas. Mixing Hebrew & Greek, wasn't easy. The Trinity is just one rationalization of this problem. But it's the Greeks, philosophy, literature, tragic passion plays, mythology, that we should definitely return. Definitely.
So much of Christianity is Greek, Dionysian, resurrection, etc. after all, the NT was written entirely in Greek...
But the best description of knowledge & platonic thought I've ever heard is here!
th-cam.com/video/d5UBBCyi-VM/w-d-xo.html
You'll eventually see the problem...
Philosophically.
Regarding Greek polytheism, you'd have to agree there are powers & fields, like gravity, electro-magnetism, lust etc would you not.? Or is that polytheistic as well, lol.
I don't think you've got the depths of Plato cf Christian thought. Plato's 'god' and 'good' are fundamentally impersonal and impassive. Yahweh is not this God, nor is the creation as Plato abstracts it. The Christian conception is that God is the ground of all reality and the author of everything not himself. There are no 'forms' there is no 'good' independent of the God who lives, relates and speaks from who they all derive as consistent with who God is: love. Reality is substantial in and grounded by the personhood ('personality') of God. By contrast Plato's god and the epistemology that evolves out of that conceptualisation are on training wheels compared to Creator who lives.
From what I'm hearing here I would say Plato has a world view that is very compatible with the Biblical Judeo-Christian view. Polytheism in the sense of intermediaries where there is one transcendent Good (GOD) overseeing everything is in effect what the Bible describes. Plato merely arrived at this logically and perceived this as truth. Makes one wonder what Jesus meant when he stated "I am good".
Platonism speaks of many Gods with the Demiurge, since the Gods are eternal, they coexist in harmony in the Nous, and are participable, while The One, aka The Good is not
It’s called henotheism
I have a question here. Plato’s thoughts are mingled with Gods and mythology, although we define philosophy as thoughts based on rational reasoning. How is that possible to call these thoughts philosophy?
Thanks
All philosophy will have a starting point that is not deduced. So in that sense, a religious framework is inevitable.
Because there is a thing called metaphysics
Plato was a polytheist, zeus is the most high or the most good, the alpha and omega, the other gods are extensions of zeus, he knew how to differentiate the myths from divinity, the gods are all just immortal and eternal, the myths are for man to learn and gain wisdom and knowledge. Hellenic polytheism is still practiced today with most applying the platonic view on the gods
So did plato view greek gods as platonic concepts? If so can you give me some sources for reference?
@ItzSwxzy yes, read platos republic and or plotinus complete works, and or sallust on the gods.
@@Son_of_zeus where can I?
@@TheKnightOfZ0 amazon or youtube audiobook
@@TheKnightOfZ0 No, he viewed them as legit beings that are worthy of worship. who worships archetypes? In the Timaeus, There is mention of Eternal/Everlasting Gods that are aside the Demiurge. Plus, The Demiurge creates the universe as a SHRINE to the GODS. I'm using Zeyl's translation on this, which can be found in Hackett's, edited by John M. Cooper "Plato, Complete Works". Page 1227 is where it starts.
Also, read Proclus, Elements of Theology Proposition 113 - 120. Also, Socrates in Phaedo or Phaedrus (idk which of these, probably the latter) speaks of Zeus being at the center of the universe, while in the Cratylus, he speaks of Zeus as "through whom all life comes through".
why did they mess with plato and aristotles noses?
Great video. What song is in the beginning?
Did you find the answer
?
Vivaldi Cello Concerto
Vivaldi - Concerto for Two Violins & Cello in d, RV 565
@@muhammadyahya3673 here
where next vid
It's coming
Platos religion was to be good and virtuous, by having courage, prudence and justice. And most important of all, dialectic. A philosopher is only one suitable to live next to gods.
I think the bible and koran are misinterpreted now days. Because when I read them I see references to God and gods all the time.
What you have learned about the Quran?
There is only one creator of everything.
the problem with your study here is Plato was born in 428/427 or 424/423 - 348/347 BC). Christianity would not really get started until 300-400 years later in 30 C.E. God's people at the time were the Israelites or the Jews. Plato's Philosophy is based on his Rome heritage and his worship of False God's.
Rome heritage?
Rome Heritage 😂😂😂
Rome Heritage 😂😂😂😂
Ahh dr yep limited knowledge